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Monday Night TV and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 08:21:49 PM EST
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Dancing With the Stars: Bristol Palin says she's going sexy tonight. I'm getting used to her being on the show. So long as there are no more live interviews with her mother, I'll stop complaining about her having been cast and try to focus on on her dancing.

There's also a new episode of "Weeds." On the cop show side, there's Hawaii Five-O, which isn't that bad.

Comcast/Xfinity's "Manage My DVR" went live in Denver this week. I set it up today and it actually works and is fast. I can now set recordings on my three DVR's online in one place, see what's on each at any given time and do mass deletions -- all online. I can also watch on up to three computers instead of tv if I want. If you watch a lot of TV, Xfinity has definitely stepped up its game, in a good way.

BTD is in depositions this week, but may stop by at night. This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Monday Night TV and Open Thread | 92 comments (92 topical)

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    YES!!!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 11:26:36 PM EST
    Farve Fail!

    Beautiful thing... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:47:43 AM EST
    too bad I feel asleep and missed the joy of Favre Fail live...but it was sure nice to see first thing in the am on the news.

    Gang Green keeps on rolling!

    Parent

    really glad to learn the (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:12:13 AM EST
    whole "absorb" thingee is attributable to ethe primaries.

    A new strain of Giuliani disease (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:36:03 AM EST
    Instead of a noun, a verb and 9/11, it is a noun, a verb and Hillary.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:16:07 AM EST


    Parent
    Secretary of Interior, Ken Salazar, (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 12:20:09 PM EST
    is to announce the end of the moratorium on deep water off shore drilling today.  It would seem prudent to await the final report of the president's own commission on the BP oil spill scheduled for completion early next year (the senate adjourned without approving subpoena power for the commission, the house acted to do so earlier).

    When establishing this commission, the president presented its charge to determine what environmental and safety precautions may be needed to prevent future spills and to determine if existing laws are adequate for the task. Moreover, the president wanted to know what worked and what didn't in our response to the disaster, and where oversight broke down.

    Preliminary reports of the commission, released last week, sketched the anatomy of a seriously flawed response that encompassed just about all with responsibility, from the hapless Salazar, the Coast Guard, NOAA, EPA to the WH budget office  These preliminary reports were received by the administration with a lack of enthusiasm and an abundance of defensiveness.  It seems like we are now treating the worst oil spill in our history as. ... What Spill?  Nothing to it, let's do it again.

    Banning drilling for oil is not (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:10:43 PM EST
    to be confused with banning open gays in the military.  Deep water drilling is obviously not as dangerous to the safety of world as open gays in the United States military so there is no need to wait for the report.

    Parent
    If they waited for a final report (none / 0) (#70)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:26:14 PM EST
    that isn't likely to be any better than what we already know, they would risk having to delay even longer a return to deep-water drilling - and I'm sure the pressure from the oil producers, the big-money crowd, the gulf states that already have too-high unemployment was just too much for them to justify keeping the moratorium on any longer.  They started setting this up weeks ago, with their "no visible oil in the Gulf" stories, and they've gotten plenty of cooperation from the media in downplaying as much as possible the preliminary report and letting the whole event just fade into obscurity.

    This way, they will have drilling well underway, can pay lip service to the "lessons learned," put Ken Salazar out there to tap dance for the media - which is always willing to cooperate - and take the "we've been back at this for __ months, and everything's fine!" approach.

    Am I surprised?  No, but I am disappointed.  Again.

    Parent

    I used to wish (none / 0) (#72)
    by sj on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:51:39 PM EST
    That his life had worked out so that he got his preferred job as Governor of Colorado.  I used to think that all the things that I hate about him being on the national stage would have been irrelevant in a statewide role.

    Now I even wonder about that.  

    Although he is/was conversant on water rights which is a huge deal in Colorado.

    Parent

    That's it, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 10:37:16 PM EST
    Just close your eyes, take a deep breath and let it out.

    Just think of Bristol like I do.  A pretty teenage child thrust into the limelight by the forces of history through only a little fault of her own, trying to make a life for herself and her child.

    Everything else should recede into the blackness.

    Feels much better than faulting the child.

    And when has Jeralyn faulted Ms. Bristol Palin (5.00 / 0) (#9)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 06:21:14 AM EST
    for anything?

    She's right, they shouldn't do any further interviews with Half-Governor Palin.

    If you think that she had no input, and had nothing to do with her daughter getting on DWTS, then I have a nice bridge over the Carquinez Straits I'd like you  to have a look at.

    Parent

    Monday man tv (none / 0) (#2)
    by kgoudy on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 10:50:26 PM EST
    Jeralyn, you are not trapped with dancing with the stars. On food channel there is diners drive ins and dives, which one monday had me frying homemade onion rings at 9. There is 2 1/2 men, which actually had women doing fart jokes tonight. But the best was the 300,000th showing of the Princess bride, which was great!  who cares about contrived dance shows, non?

    On the MNTV sports front . . . (none / 0) (#3)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 11:24:13 PM EST
    say HEY! for the SF Giants!  :) and now, here's hoping my Jets hang on. Much as I hated the Vikes just scoring on them, at least it was Percy, which added points to 2 of my fantasy teams. One of which is now assured of staying in first :) Of course,it would be nice if Holmes could score to add some icing to the 2 teams, lol!~

    In other news, I rearranged Surely the Bird's cage tonight with new toys and fresh branches. She's not too sure about it . . . :-/

    We watched Lawrence Wright (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 03:17:40 AM EST
    on HBO, 'My Trip to Al-Qaeda'.  What a gifted human being.  He is creative on one hand, but very in touch and grounded in his humanity and the many cultures he has been immersed in.  I recorded it to watch again.  There is a lot of information I want to take in again.

    I wish that President Obama had not said what he had said about the U.S. "absorbing" another terrorist attack.  It sounded disgusting in a way, I don't absorb the terrorist killings of my countrymen.  If I do, I will lose my higher self and it will eventually transform me.  You don't absorb hate and murder.  I can survive them though, and I can not lose me and the self that once made me a functioning part of a nation to be admired and coveted and longed for.

    Don't get HBO (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 07:38:53 AM EST
    but sure wish I could have seen this.  Wright's book, "The Looming Tower," I found completely absorbing and enlightening.

    Parent
    Lawrence Wright (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by star on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 06:42:46 PM EST
    WE watched it too. really liked it. so much insight. I had read the book earlier and simply loved it. He really had a balanced take on it all. Loved his no nonsense presentation.


    Parent
    The Bush Administration used (none / 0) (#10)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 07:02:23 AM EST
    similar language about "absorbing" in their documents about terrorism post-9/11, funny how Liz Cheney didn't mention that in her writings about this subject.

    Countdown WPITW, 09/22/2010:

    "Instead, President Obama is reported to have said, quote, we can absorb a terrorist attack.  This comment suggests an alarming fatalism on the part of President Obama and his administration.  Once again, the president seems either unwilling or unable to do what it takes to keep this nation safe.  The president owes the American people an explanation."

    Signed Liz Cheney, chairman, Keep America Safe."

    Madame, who in the hell do you think you`re talking to?  The negligence, dereliction of duty and nonfeasance committed by your father and his puppet, the previous president, led directly to this country having to absorb a terrorist attack.  To quote you, Ms. Cheney, your father and Mr. Bush failed to use every tool at their disposal to find, defeat, capture, and kill terrorists, and were unwilling or unable to do what it takes to keep this nation safe.

    Your father and Mr. Bush, Ms. Cheney, were utter failures, whose track record on terrorism will go down in infamy.  And worse still, your statements suggest that this country is not capable of absorbing the consequences of a terrorist attack, even though it already has, because it had to, because your father and Mr. Bush failed to absorb the warnings screamed at you by the intelligence community.

    America, Ms. Cheney, absorbed eight years of your father and George Bush.  We have proved we can absorb anything.  And the only explanation owed to the American people, Ms. Cheney, is by you.  Is the name of your group Keep America Safe--is that deliberately ironic or are you in secret agreement that your father and the last president failed utterly to do that?

    Liz Cheney, chairman, today`s Worst Person in the World.

    Click Me

    Many attempt to keep believing in American exceptionalism despite the evidence of our eyes and ears to the contrary.

    Your quibbling is frankly disappointing, as is your failure to see that failure is not only common, but enshrined everywhere in this country today as we fall apart physically and morally day by day.

    Down that path danger, if not destruction, awaits us at the hands of, not Islamicist terrorists, but our own 'good intentions'.

    Parent

    My quibbling is about wording (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 07:44:40 AM EST
    and the affect that it has on the populace and voters.  Absorb is a horrible word to use in how we need to deal with the complex problem of terrorism.

    Parent
    Can't go with you on that one (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 08:55:53 AM EST
    To me it is clearly meant in the sense of 'the shock was absorbed' and we are not destroyed. I see nothing wrong with that construction.

    Parent
    You may understand it as that (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:38:19 AM EST
    but I don't think a majority understands it that way. It is the wording of a victim stance, not one of empowerment.

    I was talking to my husband about it. He said one more attack and we will soon be entrenched in a similar political landscape with Israel.  Half of us will have lost touch with our roots and be unreachable, what founded us, who we were.  Our country is in the midst of a horrible blight of human rights morals as is.....mostly economically.  We have "liberals" now arguing to save the rich by creating more poor.  We are ripe to utterly lose our way if we are successfully attacked again anytime soon and sink into insanity if we don't remember who we are, that we were strong once because we believed once in people being able to be who they were so long as that didn't entail directly physically damaging others.  We are ripe for our divisions to become even greater if and when we are hit again and have one party empowered simply because they do not take part in the victim stance by representing utter war.  Perhaps we will simply lose our way and our place and our space, and perhaps there is nothing that I can be done about it.  But I can talk about it.

    Parent

    Oops, sorry (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:48:15 AM EST
    Perhaps there is nothing that I can do about it.  But I can talk about it.

    Parent
    I see it just the opposite (none / 0) (#42)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:40:12 AM EST
    Obama is saying we can absorb various shocks, terrorism being only one of them, without changing our essential nature as a country. Scoundrels would try to use another terrorist attack as an opportunity to go even further into the police state mentality. I'm glad Obama is at least saying he thinks we can absorb the shock. Of course we won't know what steps he will advocate unless we do get another major attack.

    Most of the things you list have nothing to do with terrorism, and I worry about them too.

    I just don't understand the whole victim stance concept.

    Parent

    Probably going to be sorry I waded (none / 0) (#48)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:56:25 AM EST
    into this discussion, but what the heck...

    I think there are a couple ways to look at this.  In once sense, to say that we can "absorb" another attack is to imply that we are strong enough not to be brought down by it.  The problems with that are, that (1) it sounds a little "bring it on"-ish for me, and (2) it's dangerous to be so confident about something the possible magnitude of which is unknowable.  I don't think poking the beast is a good way to go.

    The other thing to think about is what the opposite of "absorb" would be - and the word that comes to mind is "repel."  How do you repel a generic, undefined act of terrorism?  More spying, more restrictions, more laws, more war?  Not really a big fan of that approach.

    Rather than seeing "absorb" as being more victim-like - in the context in which it was used - I interpret it as being subconsciously challenging to people who already harbor very conscious hatred of America.

    So, what's a better word?  Or a better way to frame the challenge?  What do you say that doesn't push someone's buttons in some negative way?  I don't know - are the public comments meant to reassure the warriors among our populace that we are strong and up to the task?  Or are they meant to placate those who are bone-weary of war and more war, and want reassurance that we won't see another attack as the beginning of another war?

    Be nice if we knew what Obama meant or intended, but absent an explanation, we're all just taking it in whatever context our own lives and philosophy and experiences dictate.


    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:02:56 AM EST
    At least it took a couple of weeks for the right wing to dig up this particular quote out of Woodwards book, Obama's Wars.

    Stay tuned, I am sure that there will be more hay as the fall progresses.

    Parent

    I think it calls for more than one word (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 12:00:03 PM EST
    And in asking myself that question Anne I think I realized why I got one word so easily skewable, and that is the lack of social ethics that our nation currently exists in.  If we lived in times where we could nurture ourselves, we would feel much stronger within and would could easily afford higher ideals.  But many of us are already fighting for our lives right now, if other things challenge our existence half of us will utterly lose it.  Education has become so expensive too, it is only for the elite and those at the top of the American food chain.  We talk about and learn about the lack of education being something that set up current day Afghanistan to be shackled by illiteracy and the Taliban and only having superstitions to cling to, yet the same thing is beginning to happen to our own country at this time.  Our own system is utterly gamed against all of us little people now, the same way it is in Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

    With healthcare the way it is we already have a large segment living in despair, and we don't care enough to do something NOW and come up with real solutions.  We are not created equal and the pursuit of happiness is rigged, and the jig is up and in our face.  I guess better words cannot be spoken by our President because that would require him to be a different man and a different leader and he is not that man or leader.

    I fear politically where getting hit again will take us and what will be done with the word absorb at that time.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 12:08:03 PM EST
    Sounds like you need to take care of yourself first, and then when you are in good shape, you can lament and do what you can for those who are less fortunate than you.

    That is if you sincerely care, and are not just using the poor to grind your axe.

    Parent

    And perhaps nothing can really be done (none / 0) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 12:58:36 PM EST
    Anne.  Neither party exists at this time to lift the people out of despair. Not having large scale  despair would mean they would actually have to earn a vote instead of gaming a vote and earning things seems to be too hard for any of them at this time.  Both parties feed on trying to game the existing despair in their favor.  I think I will look back some day as an old woman and see this time as one of our lowest that I experienced.  I cried watching this documentary when Lawrence Wright spoke of how most Americans woke on Sept 12th needing to stand for something....for most of us it was an enduring force for good.  On Sept 12th I filled our bay window with as many candle holders as I could find with tealites in them to acknowledge the loss.  Not because I wanted blood, but because I wanted to really understand.  We as a nation are far off that road now though, brought here by Bush and Cheney.  But the nation has not found itself and righted itself, it has not healed from what Bush did to it and no longer cares to really understand much of anything, it remains even more lost and our current leaders are exploiting us instead of healing us on both sides of the aisle.  I don't know if there could be a worse time to be battling hate filled determined terrorism strikes.  It seems to me to be a recipe for chaos and even lower moments than those previously experienced.

    Parent
    Tracy, one thing's for sure: (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 03:08:36 PM EST
    your feelings run deep, and you are both empathetic and passionate; I would argue that you are probably living life as fully - if not more so - as those who claim to be joyfully farting rainbows while tiptoeing through the tulips (as an aside, it's very hard to believe that someone who produces as much snide BS and LOL could possibly be as filled with joy as he claims).

    There is a lot of despair in this country, and I see less and less willingness to do something about it - all the energy and all the effort seems to be directed at keeping the rich in the style to which they feel entitled, even if that means that others suffer.  There is no power in the regular people, no accountability or consequence - other than reward - for those in power and no sign of relief.  Yes, I can be happy that I have a job, a roof over my head and food on the table - that my family is healthy, but it all feels so tenuous, and even if I take a one-day-at-a-time approach in order to deny what the future might hold, it's hard to deny what is going on around us in this moment, and impossible not to worry about our fate - not just our own fate, but the fate of the country.

    It would be easier not to feel, not to care, but I'm not built that way and neither are you, and to have those feelings and opinions treated as if they are the result of a medicatable disorder is just offensive.

    Hang in there - your comments punch up my day, make me smile, give me things to think about, and always, always ring with authenticity.


    Parent

    Despair (none / 0) (#66)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:07:34 PM EST
    Best to get one's own house in order before deciding that despair is the order of the day for everyone else.

    Sorry to see you in such a state....

    I look around and see a lot of love and joy. We do not need much  to get to that state, certainly not material wealth or luxury.

    Parent

    Unlike you squeak (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:18:09 PM EST
    I'm well versed in what feeds more war thinking in America at this time. And unlike you I'm not sticking my head in the sand when it comes to the level of despair out there or how unlikely it is that that will dissipate any time in the early childhood of my granddaughters.  These are very very trying times for many people and things will be getting worse instead of better in the near future.  You add to that terrorists trying to kill you, and you seem to think you will get a sanity out of that at this time.  I don't

    Parent
    Sad To Hear (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:24:06 PM EST
    I live a stones throw from where the criminals flew planes into buildings. We are here are living a full life with joy, love and the occasional bump that comes with life.

    Getting a handle on despair starts with you, not everyone else.

    Parent

    If you are blogging all day (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 01:47:19 PM EST
    right now....you have no clue how the rest of the country is having to live.  Seriously, you crack me up.  And I'm certain that you are happy and joyful, very certain of it :)

    Parent
    OK Chicken Little (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 04:00:52 PM EST
    Just tell me when to duck.

    lol....

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:57:06 AM EST
    This has to be about something more personal than Obama, and he is getting slammed for it...

    It is hard to believe that you are getting outraged by his word choice here.

    But then again, you lost me a while ago.

    Parent

    It is a word choice (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:08:12 AM EST
    Having to do with something so fricken profound in my lifetime it isn't even funny...TWO wars ongoing at the same time, and bleeding off my nation's wealth like a firehose in amounts almost impossible to grasp.  This issue isn't small.  It is huge, and if/when we do get hit again it will be politically staggering unless we prepare now and prepare well.  You have to talk to the masses using something better than a victim stance.  If this comes off as personal,  maybe it is.  If people go die because the leadership declares war MY PEOPLE go, the people I share every single day with right now.  So yeah, it is personal, and getting elected by a dumbed down kept stupid electorate in the next election cycle is the most important thing and brought us the phucking AUMF.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:15:56 AM EST
    I would advise you to turn off the fox chatter.

    I read the full context of the quote and it has nothing to do with a victim stance.

    The right wing and many here who still can't get over the fact that Obama won the primary, look for any opportunity to make Obama look like he is ineffective leader.

    The irony is, that whenever Bush said something that was actually stupid, the right said that it is insane to criticize the CIC during a war. What will our enemies think.

    Parent

    I don't watch Fox ever (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:19:36 AM EST
    Sometimes you come off as such an idiot.  My words come from watching Lawrence Wright's latest documentary....sheesh, do me and the EMTs a favor, stay out of the deep end of the pool.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:26:56 AM EST
    The context from Woodward's book was the WTC. We absorbed that just fine, if you do not want to count the right wing loss of the way we used to live.

    You know the loss of freedoms that they took away, in order to keep our freedoms.

    Parent

    I don't consider Bob Woodward (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:37:30 AM EST
    on the same level as Lawrence Wright.  One of them is a glorified gossip columnist :)

    Parent
    That is The Source and Context (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:39:41 AM EST
    Of your Obama quote.

    Parent
    No, I am the source (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:43:56 AM EST
    of my quotes, and I always will be.  He finishes the documentary allowing everyone to see fairly clearly through his eyes where we stand right now.  I know, it is completely freaky that I would watch something that YOU HAVE NOT and come up with own ideas and opinions :)  It is every unlike me though to take in data and draw my own conclusions and decide to converse about the many aspects of a whole situation :)

    Parent
    Oops....VERY UNLIKE ME (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:50:19 AM EST
    Can't type, guess I need some meds :) Someone throw me some meds.......please....something gentle :)  No Ex-Lax, they lie that that is gentle.

    Parent
    Obama's Wars (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:01:01 AM EST
    ...the full context of the quote, from page 363 of Woodward's book (Obama's Wars), shows very clearly that the criticism is thoroughly bogus.

    Leave it to the new tag team of MilitaryTracy and Bob Woodward.

    Politics is stupid.

    Parent

    Not much to say (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:15:01 AM EST
    but I'm not the expert on Squeaky's Obama defending or opinions.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:39:48 AM EST
    Is that all you got...  pathetic.

    I have never cared much for Obama, nor Hillary, but I am not in an irrational hater because Obama of Obama's defeat over Hillary.

    I will never understand that.


    Parent

    And I think you would need to (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 07:49:46 AM EST
    watch the program to understand what other options there are out there other than absorbing terrorism.

    Parent
    There Is Nothing Victim About Absorb (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:03:56 AM EST
    Maybe it is not suitably warlike for your tastes, but it is certainly not a victim stance.

    To absorb is to neutralize unscathed.

    To become crippled, is a victim stance.

    Parent

    Your opinion (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:12:33 AM EST
    But we are a democracy, and the Conservatives kick your arse every single time something physically threatens the nation.

    Parent
    Huh? (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:18:28 AM EST
    What a load of crap.  You have really lost it, imo.

    Parent
    Really? (3.50 / 2) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:21:30 AM EST
    We have  lived in alternate realities then since Veitnam.  You are not trusted by America when bad people are immediately threatening.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#37)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:27:46 AM EST
    The right wing is really great source of trust. Iraq and Vietnam are great examples.

    lol

    Parent

    If we get hit again (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:35:24 AM EST
    The Republicans are right back in the saddle, probably get the Presidency if it happens before 2012.  Obama is drawing down, and needs to, but he can't draw down troops talking victim stance when we know we will be hit again. Or I guess he can, and we will go where that leads us because he IS NOT LEADING US on any of this.

    He really can't lead us on this though I guess because that would require empowering us to believe in our higher angels and he is so busy screwing all of us over we can hardly fathom what those are anymore.  Just like the inhabitants of most third world countries, where an oligarchy skims everything right off the top.  Such a climate feeds and nurtures terrorism and radical groups.....like the fricken Tea Party.

    Parent

    Try New Meds (1.00 / 3) (#43)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:41:05 AM EST
    Obama was elected during two simultaneous wars.

    In fact, you usually call him republican, when it is convenient.

    Parent

    You always bring up meds (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:45:05 AM EST
    As if that means something to you personally :)  It seems to be a part of a certain reality you inhabit.

    Parent
    Would you rather than absorb the (none / 0) (#14)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 08:43:39 AM EST
    next terrorist attack, it shatters us instead?

    If you're on the same side as Liz Cheney, I don't need to see a movie to change my opinion of that fact.

    Parent

    You are completely (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:02:26 AM EST
    missing what the program was pointing out.  Also, having self esteem because our nation worked very hard at one time on its human rights issues and the fact that continues to be a democracy when so many other nations are extremely oppressive, and seeking to perpetuate our higher ideals and heal from what the Bush/Cheney administration did to us and brought us to is not American Exceptionalism.  I'm sick of lefties demanding that we literally HATE our own country and ourselves in order to be liberals.  How self destructive is that?

    Parent
    Being realistic about this country (none / 0) (#18)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:07:50 AM EST
    isn't hating it, seeing everything through rose-colored glasses does more harm than good in the long run.

    Parent
    Yes, I'm well known for my (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:15:06 AM EST
    rose colored glasses that I simply adore and insist on wearing :)

    Fact is though, when filled with self hatred one can do almost nothing constructive and probably absolutely NOTHING to contend with a complex issue like terrorism.  And such people can't even see the world clearly.  It is also a symptom of depression.

    Parent

    Re:Self-hatred? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:34:48 AM EST

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"

    Dr. Samuel Johnson

    From Glenn Greenwald today:

    That is confirmed by mountains of evidence  not only about what motivated Shahzad but most anti-American Terrorists as well:  severe anger over the violence and interference the U.S. brings to their part of the world.  The only caveat I'd add to Professor Ahmed's remarks is that a desire to exact vengeance for foreign killings on your soil is hardly a unique attribute of Pashtun culture.  It's fairly universal.  See, for instance, the furious American response to the one-day attack on 9/11 -- still going strong even after 9 years.  As Professor Pape documents:  "when you put the foreign military presence in, it triggers suicide terrorism campaigns . . . and that when the foreign forces leave, it takes away almost 100% of the terrorist campaign."  It hardly takes a genius to figure out the most effective way of reducing anti-American Terrorism; the only question is whether that's the actual goal of those in power.

    From Salon(dot)com:

    They hate us for our occupations

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    They hate us because they hate us (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:45:25 AM EST
    Not all of them hates us.  But the ones that do, the ones who study and preach hate and killing in the name of Islam hate us....and they hate us no matter what we do.  And the haters set the dialogue as things stand right now.

    Many people living in the Middle East don't hate us.  They don't hate us when we are there or not there, but Liberals will only focus on the haters too just as much the Conservatives.  The only thing that differs is that one wants to kill everyone and the other wants to run away and hide and maybe the bad people will just go away.

    Parent

    They hate us for our freedoms? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:51:58 AM EST


    Parent
    Don't put Bush words in my mouth (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:00:06 AM EST
    I'm not your talking point.  They do hate us, and they hate us by choice.  Because they too are individuals I'm certain they hate us for a variety of individualized reasons. I will easily accept the invocation of the Greenwald on many things, but not Islamic Extremism and how it chooses to interact with other nonIslamic nations or even how it( never mentioned by Glenn) chooses to interact with recognized Islamic nations.

    Parent
    Re:Terrorism: This is what we face that can't (none / 0) (#35)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:23:14 AM EST
    be fought with drones and/or bullets:

    Global Guerrillas
    Networked tribes, systems disruption, and the emerging bazaar of violence. Resilient Communities, decentralized platforms, and self-organizing futures. By John Robb

    A resource manual for those who loathe tyrants... a disaster for the repressive imperialistic nations:the open source jihad is America's worst nightmare.  Al Qaeda's stated goal for Inspire.

    Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula put out a magazine this summer called Inspire.  It's a slick glossy e-zine. What really makes it interesting isn't how slick the magazine is.  Instead, it is the purpose of the magazine: to promote "open source jihad" by providing readers with the tools they need to plan, motivate, organize, and pull off effective attacks against Western targets (i.e. specifics on recipes for bombs that don't use controlled substances and how to's on secure Interent communications via the software Asrar Al-Mujahideen).

    Click Me


    Parent

    I know all about Inspire (none / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:27:57 AM EST
    But do you really know what inspired Inspire?  And do you know that recent intel indicates that the Taliban has Al Qaeda buyers remorse because we did show up in large numbers?  They didn't bank on that crap and they took a senseless survey recently and they aren't happy about what Osama got them into.  Now we and they come to the table.  Standing for something against evil people isn't always a bad thing. But it can be hard for cowards, and some people are so bad you might not make it home alive but you can send someone with the best chance perhaps.

    Parent
    The future of al Qaeda lies not (none / 0) (#73)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    on the battlefields of Afghanistan, but how we respond to them once we're no longer there.

    Parent
    You are absolutely correct (none / 0) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 10:59:13 PM EST
    on this in a certain dimension.  What really gets to me is that American lefties want to believe that they can simply adopt a more peace seeking and thoughtful stance on dealing with terrorism.  I know NATO soldiers though personally, and have laughed before because they get so riled up because they feel like their countries do not care about terrorism enough, unlike the United States.

    I see all this from the outside though.  They are soldiers by choice, warriors of their cultures, embodying the power and skills to physically protect nations.  They are often quite one dimensional, but I've never attacked them for it because who they are is needed as much as anything else in a functioning society.  A functional society has a means of self protection, actually several means.  What I also see is the powers and the populace behind these soldiers that "decide" what course their military strength will take.  Many lefties think that because Obama is now President that they can simply become another more peace oriented NATOish feet dragging to war nation, but that isn't what I see at all because our voters and our populace is not at peace within like it is with other NATO nations.  America still treats its voters and its people like dogs.  Our healthcare system is horrible and the availability of educations now is even worse.  We are barely first world these days, perhaps we simply aren't but insist they keep putting us on the list because we have the most powerful military and we can and will kick your a$$. Our people are stressed the hell out like a pack of borderline starving dogs fighting over scraps though.  There is no safety in the community that is our country.  The other NATO nations have that though, and we do not and we don't even attempt to seek it.  Our leaders sell us out keeping us starving dogs.  Our people are not capable of voting for people or empowering people seeking to place higher ideals above war upon being attacked.  Any attacks visited upon us means unquestionable war for about half of us because we have insisted on a social structure that shuns a sense of community well being.  Todays Americans are always about to be attacked in some way, shape, or form.  Justice is kept from us though and currently the only justice we are allowed to have is a type of military justice visited upon those that attack through terrorism.  That is it though.  In America it is all about dog eat dog every day all day, and the only structure completely fed and well outfitted is the military complex.  We are ripe for voting in perpetual war and feeding on it.  We have little else to call our own these days and little else to look forward to.  Soon they will be tweaking Social Security and other "entitlements" as if simple Americans ever were living off the fat of the land like whoremasters in my lifetime.  I see us as a colosal failure at this point and not getting better anytime soon but the terrorists aren't going away.

    Parent

    We spend about 60 billion dollars a year (none / 0) (#80)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:34:00 PM EST
    on our military, to worry about Lefties turning America into a more peaceful version of the European nations is surely naive, if not totally risible in the extreme.

    Continue shivering at the thought of the terrorists, as Lenin put it:

    "The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize."

    Parent

    I'm not worried about it (none / 0) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:26:28 PM EST
    Wow you are an idiot, I swear to God.  What I am saying is is that you don't have the internal works to support a nation that is slow to anger.  God you are a thick ditto head.

    Parent
    Interestingly (none / 0) (#82)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:25:44 AM EST
    I think a lot of it is sheer size.  When you consider the "world powers" of the day - us, the U.S.S.R. in it's time, China today - we have one thing in common - sheer size.  However none of us has ever been on the leading edge of treating it's citizens well - the u.s. actually does a bit better in this regard than the other world powers, I think.  We can influence the world through the scope and scale of everything we do though.

    None of those other NATO countries will ever have that kind of influence, because they can't figure out how to band together.  But each federal government has to be more responsive to the individual in it's country, because there are fewer individuals per federal government, so each one "counts" more.

    The problem we face is the problem rome and the ussr faced, and probably china and india too - is that it's hard to keep so many people functioning on a high level.  The one thing that makes us powerfull, our size, is also our biggest detriment to sustained success.

    Parent

    Great comment. (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:00:45 PM EST


    Parent
    No nation in history (none / 0) (#84)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:37:00 PM EST
    has ever been tasked with finding an equitable, sane, stability-engendering way to sustain a status quo which involves maintaining 700+ military bases scattered across the globe. That's a situation unique in history that the history of a Rome, or, of an "evil empire" can only shed the faintest glimmerings of light on..

    We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

    Parent

    Me thinks (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:51:28 PM EST
    we have our own version of 'pre-67 borders' that we need to return to. And there's plenty of vital infrastructure work that could be attended to by that unwieldy and dangerous make-work-program that so much of our "defense" prerogatives have gradually morphed into..

    Parent
    I wonder how much Rome spent (none / 0) (#86)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:02:46 PM EST
    as a % of gdp on their military.  Obviously the world today is a very different place.  The USSR, while they did not have the same scope of military control - tried to influence and exert a stricter level of control than we do with our military bases scattered - and they failed.  I think for the most part our military bases operate as independent entities from those states - so they are easier to maintain than entire nations.  We have military bases in Germany, but that doesn't mean that we are trying to control Germany.

    No, none of these situations are exactly the same, and it will be interesting to see what China does moving forward as they are relative newcomers to the world power scene.

    For the record, I don't really consider any of these "empires" inherently "evil" per say.  They are what they are.  I find it a very simplistic word to describe something that complex.

    Parent

    No doubt I'm in the minority (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:03:56 PM EST
    but, I've thought for a long time that the reach of of global USSR "influence" was always, in this country,  grossly and grotesquely exaggerated. We're expected to believe that a barely-fully-industrialized nation that the Reich had ridden roughshod during the war and that had lost 30 million people, somehow miraculously became, in less than a decade, this dark force with the means and ability to influence every 'anti-American', revolutionary movement occurring anywhere on the planet..

    I don't think there are, in reality, anywhere near the number of valid points of comparison between what were the USSR' ACTUAL capabilities then (versus the common perception in this country) and the current, historically-unprecedented amount of influence the U.S wields worldwide to even begin to compare the two.

    As I said, we're not in Kansas anymore..      

    Parent

    I don't think they succeeded (none / 0) (#88)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:13:45 PM EST
    at all.  I think they tried and failed.

    Parent
    I don't think they even (none / 0) (#89)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:20:14 PM EST
    "tried" anywhere near as much as we were told (relentlessly for decades), they were.

     

    Parent

    I think they tried to influence the world (none / 0) (#90)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:26:09 PM EST
    as much as they were capable of doing. As does every nation, essentially.

    Parent
    The capability was the part (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:37:35 PM EST
    that was exaggerated; as in, things like "missile gaps" and the common meme that every kid from Tierra del Fuego to the nearest Teamsters Local whose politics were influence by Marx was "under Soviet influence".

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#92)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:46:09 PM EST
    we have very different base points here.

    I didn't really live through the cold war, so I'm not really talking about the perceived capability of that time.  My first real introduction to the U.S.S.R. was the fall of the Berlin wall.

    I have been to East Germany.  But I certainly don't think my parents & co. were "under Soviet influence" despite being influenced by Marx :)

    Parent

    The attempt to establish (none / 0) (#94)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 03:07:33 PM EST
    memes like the missile gap and the Evil Empire, which were generally accepted without quibble by the "morning in America" crowd, was, imo, a way to normalize the idea in America of benign imperialism, ie, if we don't do it, they will..so, our ONLY choice is the lesser-of-two-evils, folks..

    And it's been revolving doors and guaranteed contracts for 400 dollar hammers and Stealth bombers that have the equivalent cost of 500 public housing units, ever since.

     

    Parent

    I think we've been on that path (none / 0) (#95)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 03:19:40 PM EST
    a lot longer than that.

    Louisiana purchase

    Monroe Doctrine

    T.R.

    WWI

    Heck even the Marshall plan in a way

    Sure, we went through periods of isolation, but every empire tries to expand it's influence...

    I grant you we now have the techonology and capability to do it in a way that's never been possible before.

    Parent

    Fair point. (none / 0) (#93)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:48:20 PM EST


    Parent
    It really is a smallish (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 05:08:23 AM EST
    world. National Museum in Delhi. Special exhibit. Inuit Art of Canadian Arctic. Plus, when I checked in at so so hotel @ 2 am, Giants/Braves game was on when I want into my room!  

    Internation Herald Tribune reports (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 05:11:02 AM EST
    Germany is not pleased U.S. State Dept. Issued its nonspecifix terrorist warning re Europe. Frankfurt airport security still does not require removing shoes.

    I hear you (none / 0) (#17)
    by sj on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 09:04:05 AM EST
    And submit that every city that has been a setting for cop shows could describe a nearly identical (if localized) objection.  Even Baltimore.  

    I understand that it's distressing to you -- I don't live there but I love Honolulu, too.  But it's, you know, TV.  And TV does what TV does.

    Not quite (none / 0) (#51)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:07:36 AM EST
    Reading Donald's complaints, I was thinking of the contrast with the old show "Spenser for Hire," which was mostly filmed in Boston, never violated the sensibility and made the best, most organic use of a city I've ever seen in a TV show.

    "Miami Vice" was pretty darn good in that respect, too, though I don't know Miami and don't know what violations it may have committed.

    Parent

    I really like (none / 0) (#55)
    by CST on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:22:36 AM EST
    Bones - as far as cop shows go, it's nerdy, and fairly inoffensive.  Although I don't think a lot of that technology actually exists yet...

    And Jeralyn would probably take issue with the fact that they often do things without warrants and people talk to the cops waaay too much.  But that seems to be standard operating procedure on tv.

    Parent

    Spenser for Hire (none / 0) (#56)
    by sj on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:27:08 AM EST
    Not sure that I ever saw that, and in any case that ended in the late eighties. TV standards evolve.  Or devolve.  In any case they change.

    "The Wire" is much more recent and was my mental comparison.  The one-dimensional portrayal of the Native Hawaiians is as accurate as "The Wire" portrayal of young black men.  I had to stop watching the show or I would never have come to an appreciation of my adopted city.  Or my neighbors.  And I really wanted to watch it and try to start identifying landmarks and/or neighborhoods.  

    And don't get me started on "Dynasty" in Denver.  Love John Forsythe.  Hated that show.

    Parent

    You know (none / 0) (#59)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:47:41 AM EST
    That the main characters have the same names as the original show, don't you? Kona Kalukua too.

    Although I was surprised about one thing (none / 0) (#60)
    by sj on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 11:50:39 AM EST
    When I was there, I inferred "haole" to be somewhat pejorative (based on context).  I was kind of surprised to see it used.  Was it a term used in the original series?  

    Which now makes me wonder how popular the original series was in Hawaii.  That series, by the bye, also had a character Kono Kalakaua.  

    In any case, I understand more than you know how distressing it is to see one's home mis-portrayed.  But TV does what TV does.

    Actually, I'm more surprised that networks are still taking a chance on O'Loughlin after "Three Rivers".  (And I like him)

    Thank you for that information (none / 0) (#77)
    by sj on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 04:38:21 PM EST
    The US government has a long history of attempting to eradicate the culture of indigenous peoples (see also:  shameful history of Bureau of Indian Affairs).  Applause and support for all the effort put into retaining and reclaiming the Hawaiian cultural heritage.

    Parent
    Elaine Marshall, (none / 0) (#64)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 12:48:47 PM EST
    Dem. candidate for Senate in North Carolina, put in a good showing at her debate last night.  Very knowledgeable and more progressive than I anticipated.  It definitely had more of a 2008 feel to it than 2010.  So if you want to throw some money to a non-Blue Dog, think of Elaine Marshall.  I'll try to write a diary on her later.  
    Monday Night TV and Open Thread | 92 comments (92 topical)

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