Friday Open Thread

Another busy day. Our last open thread is full, here's another one, all topics welcome.

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    Is the left becoming to PC? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 03:43:09 AM EST
    The Atlantic - liberals vs liberals

    The above article references the recent Chait article that made the assertion that the rise of PC thought is stifling debate.

    I bring this up because while I love coming on this site and commenting I often feel this tactic used against me.   Certain thoughts and links to non progressive sites are dismissed out of hand because they don't fit a certain PC narrative and the fun (the debate) stops.

    Even while I enjoy commenting my favorite activity is to read your comments along with the info in the original posts.

    And I must say I see what these articles are referring to all the time between posters on this site.  If you don't hold the latest PC idea on certain issues you aren't debated you are dismissed.

    Am I crazy?  I bring it up to see if others see this pattern in our natural discourse and even at TL.

    Keep in mind we on the other side have our own issues like being unable to separate moral and political or fiscal issues making too many on the right look like kooks is just one of many so don't attsck me like I think I'm on the side of Angels.

    I am honestly curious to get feedback from progressives on this topic.

    Feedback (none / 0) (#2)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 04:26:06 AM EST
    If you cite Fox News,  it is a non starter.

    Being dismissed:  This is a cite with "Left" in its title.  Some debates have been had so many times, to raise the same tired GOP talking points is...well, pointless.

      Cite new evidence from a credible source, and you probably get a better response....

    From my perspective, I believe I understand the GOP all too well.  Appeals to Reason and Compassion that liberals tend to want to make are ineffective.  Conservatives are not moved by Reason and Compassion but by Power and Money.

    Beat the GOP and they become reasonable.


    Fox News (none / 0) (#3)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 06:26:04 AM EST
    Aren't you basically proving my point by making that statement?

    I looked up the definition of liberal and Google says...

    Open to new behaviors or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

    So then I looked up Progressive and Google says...

    Favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

    If you won't even consider reading a link or considering the general message are you open to opinions?  

    Just seems that too many on both sides are locked into looking at the world through tunnel vision of their own making and miss stuff because they never look around.

    It's why I love this site.  It challenges my views but can also strengthen them because in both cases I expose myself to the message straight from thee horses mouth and not through a filter of my own partisanship.

    Thanks for the feedback.  


    Jonathan Chait kind of got hoist on his own (none / 0) (#5)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 06:59:12 AM EST
    petard in that article he wrote.

    Here's Amanda Marcotte:

    While the article purports to be a lambasting of "the culture of taking offense" and censorious attitudes, it quickly becomes clear that the only speech Chait is interested in protecting is conservative or contrarian. When it comes to people saying uncomfortable or provocative things from the left, Chait comes across as just as censorious and silencing as any of the leftist prigs he attempts to criticize.


    Commitment to free-wheeling public discourse is an admirable position, of course. But it has to go both ways. "I am white and male, a fact that is certainly worth bearing in mind," Chait writes. I will take him on his advice and suggest that's why he doesn't seem to realize it's two-faced to scold lefties for being hypersensitive while demanding that they tip-toe around his own hypersensitivities. But the rest of us should not be fooled.

    In my opinion, and speaking only for myself, it isn't the failure to subscribe to a PC narrative that gets certain links and thoughts dismissed out of hand, it's the tendency for these sources to routinely and deliberately distort and manipulate the facts - and to generally promote ideas, policies and actions that have either been proven not to work as advertised, and/or are regressive, authoritarian and punitive in nature, unhealthily bellicose and disgustingly tolerant of racist, sexist and classist ideas and policies.  A lot of it originates in outlets like Fox News, which I consider, generally, to be a kind of poisonous tree, and blogs and sites that consistently accept Fox's version of the facts, add their own ugly spin and seek to perpetuate ideas and a point of view based on them are the fruit of that tree.

    Which is not to say that the so-called liberal media (and i qualify that with "so-called," because I don't necessarily consider those "liberal" outlets to be all that liberal) doesn't put its own spin on things - they do.  And they don't always tell the whole story, either.

    I guess my starting point is that I already know what I believe - I'm pretty much past the stage where I can be persuaded to support the right-wing view of things: it just isn't who I am.  I may need the media to report on things I'm not equipped to find out on my own, but I don't need them to tell me what to think about it, and I don't need them to prove that what I believe passes muster.

    I don't happen to think this is all a matter of what's PC and what isn't; I think it's a struggle between and representative of fundamental differences in what people believe.  That's nothing new, I don't think, it's just more concentrated, and thus more noticeable, when the occasional conservative finds him- or herself trying to be heard over the voices of mostly liberals/progressives.

    And vice-versa. If you don't think I'd be shouted down for my liberal ideas if I tried to discuss them on a conservative blog, I'd have to say you might not be looking at this as objectively as you think!


    My opinion (none / 0) (#7)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 07:42:32 AM EST
    Is ones opinion should never be static.

    By saying...

    I already know what I believe

    You're kind of saying you are never able to leave an opinion open just a bit to the other position.  For me then you miss out on the opportunity to learn and while not change it but understand the other point better and see positions of compromise.  

    Again my original question wasn't the difference between my views on the conservative side and yours.  It was is there the same kind of thing happening within the liberal community that you have to be so PC even liberals have this phenomena happening to them.


    Case in point (none / 0) (#8)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 07:48:35 AM EST
     Newsweek does a story asking if Silicon Valley has a problem with sexism.

    Then they get criticism for the cover of a story talking about exactly what the criticism is about..

    Seems like a case of too much PC.


    You may be surprised to hear, Anne, (none / 0) (#10)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 08:01:57 AM EST
    that I don't read you or your posts as "liberal" or "conservative."

    I view you and your posts as rational, enlightened, and reasoned.

    Like Chris Rock says, everyone is a mix of liberal and conservative.  Damned few people agree on everything.  The two-label system sucks.  

    A continuum with only two end points cannot represent positions in a universe containing dozens of issues.  An accurate representation would require a vector in of as many dimensions as there are issues.  Which would be completely impossible to represent on a TV screen, let alone a bumper sticker, or in a two party system.


    Rove compares Benghazi conspiracy (none / 0) (#4)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 06:30:29 AM EST
    ... to birtherism and warns against it.  Said he suspects she might want Benghazi attacks like Obama "wanted" the birther attacks.

    Even conservatives have to admit the wingers make them look silly at a certain point.

    Tobe is no longer (none / 0) (#6)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 07:24:09 AM EST
    Someone I liste too very seriously.

    He is more of a Limbaugh at this point then a serious news analyst.  Which is a shame because he could give good insight having been there done that but oh well.


    All these (none / 0) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 30, 2015 at 07:59:19 AM EST
    "reports" surrounding Benghazi from the likes of Fox News etc were more for the benefit of GOP "fleecing the rubes" than anything else. I mean they had some people so worked up about it they were screaming for Obama to be impeached over it.