A Health Care Reform Capitulation Even Ezra Klein Won't Support

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:25:08 PM EST
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The rare capitulation Ezra Klein won't support has been discovered:

I'm firmly on the record as being willing to support all manner of compromises [BTD: no sh*t] on health-care reform. Policy dogmatism has not, over the long history of this issue, proven a successful strategy. But there's an increasingly evident path by which health-care reform begins to hurt the very people it's meant to aid. As Jordan Rau reports, making health-care reform affordable for the centrists in the Congress could make it unaffordable for the people.

The funny thing is Ezra sees no correlation between his urging of capitulation on health care reform and the inevitable capitulation on the parts of the bill he cares about. If it was not so sad, it would be hilarious.

Speaking for me only

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A Health Care Reform Capitulation Even Ezra Klein Won't Support | 33 comments (33 topical)

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Not experienced enough to understand (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:28:39 PM EST

where he was going or what in the end his promotions would actually earn us all.

: Klein? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by lambert on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 06:29:31 PM EST

Or Obama?
[rimshot. laughter]

when they took single payer off the table (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by TeresaInPa on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:29:34 PM EST

refusing even to discuss it, they had gone too far in compromise. It was dead to me from that point on.
I know this is not a popular position, but I would rather the whole thing fail and let someone with guts go out and teach people about single payer, both private citizens and business groups. Someone surely has the same kind of passion and courage that Gore had to take on climate change.
But it has to be someone people relate to...can't be Kucinich.

: Well this answers my question :) (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:32:48 PM EST

: A bad bill is worse than no bill (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by lambert on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 06:32:49 PM EST

Klein's compromise -- assuming the worst case scenario, which is looking pretty good right now -- means millions of us are going to be forced to buy junk insurance, that won't cover us even after we pay, with the IRS acting as a collection agent.
What we have now -- nothing -- is better than having nothing, and also being forced to pay for it.

capitulate (5.00 / 2) (#4)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:37:04 PM EST

capitulate,
capitulate,
capitulate,
capitulate,
capitulate,
wait! you are capitulating on that! are you nuts?

jeez

I am really glad there is a three day weekend. I cant think about this stuff anymore and as long as I am in front of my computer I cant stop.

I'm still trying to (5.00 / 4) (#6)
by jeffinalabama on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:43:32 PM EST

nicely and gently debunk austrian economics in another thread. I need to ask the question of my colleague: are you against Keynes because he was anti-semitic, according to a biography of Keynes by the Mises Institute, or because he came up with economic theories without taking many courses in economics, according to a biography of Keynes by the Mises institute?


: Isn't Samuel a day trader? (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:52:22 PM EST

: for some (none / 0) (#8)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:51:32 PM EST

degrees are everything.

Al Gore, what might have been.... (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by NYShooter on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:41:07 PM EST

"I know one thing about the job of the president. It is the only job in the Constitution that is charged with the responsibility of fighting for all the people. Not just the people of one state, or one district. Not just the wealthy or the powerful--all the people. Especially those who need a voice, those who need a champion, those who need to be lifted up, so they are never left behind.

So I say to you tonight: If you entrust me with the presidency, I will fight for you. I mean that with all my heart."

I'm getting (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:57:42 PM EST

to the point where simply mentioning the name Ezra Klein makes me want to burst out in laughter.

That's my goal (5.00 / 4) (#11)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:59:08 PM EST

Well (5.00 / 3) (#12)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 04:11:06 PM EST

I have to say that you're pretty successful as far I go.


Ezra Klein? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by lambert on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 06:33:53 PM EST

You mean 'Versailles poolboy Ezra Klein"?


oh lambert (none / 0) (#25)
by kmblue on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 07:33:17 PM EST

well put!


: Do feel free to propagate VPBEK ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by lambert on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 12:05:29 PM EST

He did the same thing to Cass Sunstein (none / 0) (#14)
by andgarden on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 04:29:09 PM EST

: That's ok w/me (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by oculus on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 05:09:04 PM EST

: Well (none / 0) (#15)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 04:31:28 PM EST

Cass Sunstein is a nonentity to me unless Obama wants to put him on the Supreme Court. Then that's a whole different enchilada.

It IS sad (5.00 / 3) (#13)
by cawaltz on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 04:21:43 PM EST

What part of "support all manner of compromises" did he think his opposition didn't get?

They had him at "hello" if they opened with that kind of attitude. Why in the world would they bother trying to placate someone they knew would be open to all manner of compromises?

On the other hand (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by cawaltz on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 05:18:05 PM EST

it is kinda nice to know that the political playbook is predictable. It wasn't like anyone who pays attention didn't know they'd come after subsidies after they went after the public option. The corporate owned representatives in Congress could care less about the poor other than to manipulate them. So basically they are going to gut any part of a bill that would be beneficial to people that can't fill their campaign coffers. It's what they do. When the negotiations are over all they'll be insisting on is a fat ol' check to Blue Cross, Cigna, and the same health insurance cabal written by the taxpayers.

O.K. (5.00 / 3) (#18)
by MO Blue on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 05:26:13 PM EST

I'm sorry neither Ezra's position or his current article make a lot of sense to me.

Unless I've missed somethings, Ezra is willing to accept plans much weaker that HR 3200 and compromise away any real attempt at controlling the cost of premiums. Jordan Rau, Ezra's source, reports that under the HR 3200 even the cost of subsidized private insurance (premiums, co-pays and deductibles) might make it too expensive for some of the people that it was designed to help. Yet, it only becomes unacceptable to Ezra if the subsidies are lowered.

I am confused. If I really cannot afford $5,000, it doesn't make any difference if you raise the price to $7,000. Once you go beyond my ability to pay, the price becomes irrelevant.

Clyburn proposes an alternative capitulation (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by lambert on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 06:36:55 PM EST

Public option "pilot programs".

Seriously, couldn't we just consider Medicare and the VA single payer pilot programs, since they are, and go directly to HR676?

Several Options (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by waldenpond on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 07:01:32 PM EST

Some were advocating for a mixed program of 5 differing options to take place in 5 different states. PO in one state, co-op in another etc. Doesn't matter if MCR and VA work.... didn't you know the govmint can't do nuttin' right.


You're right (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by lambert on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 07:17:11 PM EST

I forgot Medicare wasn't a government program. Sorry.


Republican's are against socialized (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by MO Blue on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 08:37:17 PM EST

medicine - unless they are sick.

GOPers Decrying "Socialized Medicine" Go To Govt. Hospital For Surgeries:
Republicans in Congress have raised the specter of a bloated, "socialized," bureaucrat-run nightmare of a health care system as a means of undermining the White House's effort at a systematic overhaul. And yet, as Democratic sources are now pointing out, when medical crisis hit close to home, many of these same officials turned to a government-run hospital for their own intensive care and difficult surgeries.
So apparently in Mitch McConnell, John McCain, Kit Bond, Roy Blunt and George Voinovich's worlds, what's good for me is not good for thee. C&L

With all due respect (none / 0) (#27)
by cawaltz on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 09:25:06 PM EST

I'd oppose a plan modeled on the VA. You play russian roulette with that particular system. I had really great care the first two times I went there but since it's been a nightmare. I got dropped from my primary clinic no less than twice and then I didn't meet the means testing. The last time my husband went for a service related industry I had to go through patient contact to get him seen. They were going to do him a "favor" by just prescribing him pills without seeing him. They didn't even screen him well because they were going to give him Indocin and not bother to tell him to stop taking the aspirin he was taking over the counter. Luckily I knew enough to tell him that it would destry his stomach. I was not a happy camper but understand that's what happens in an overstressed system that rotates doctors in and out far too quickly.


That's terrible (none / 0) (#28)
by Spamlet on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 10:58:20 PM EST

I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. May I ask where the hospital is?


Salem Virginia n/t (none / 0) (#29)
by cawaltz on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 12:30:12 AM EST

Thanks (none / 0) (#30)
by Spamlet on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 01:00:19 AM EST

I wish your experience had been in line with what I've heard from friends about the VA hospital in Palo Alto, but it sounds as if it was more like what my grandfather, a veteran of World War I, endured in the late 1960s.


Not all of my experiences were godawful (none / 0) (#31)
by cawaltz on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 10:04:37 AM EST

when we first came here I had a baby and shortly after developed pylonephritis that had me hospitalized for a week. I couldn't have asked for better care had I gone out in the private sector(and back then we were low income enough to qualify for all my care to be written off except for my outpatient pills/we also had no insurance at that time so it was a total write off). A year later I developed a kidney stone that blocked off my right ureter, they hospitalized me and placed in a stint. They decided lithotripsy would be less invasive and better for me but didn't have the facilities so consulted me to Beckley. In the interim they placed me on broad spectrum antibiotics and pain meds and saw me weekly to make sure that they were not jeopardizing my health. I used to kid the urologist that he took more pictures of my kidneys then I had pictures of my kids. He was an incredible doctor. Again this was all written off with the exception of meds because hubby was in school and I didn't make alot with full time position at Walmart and part time position at hospital.

Flash forward several years I had been to the ER several times for symptoms related to my tract. During that time no one told me I had developed another stone(even though they took the pictures) I show up in the ER in absolute pain. What happened? They still aren't sure. The closest they can guess is that I passed that stone in my right kidney(it was gone) and it did some damage on the way out(the imagery showed an enflamed kidney and suggested a three month follow up if no improvement. They consult me to urology and a urologist with absolutely no bedside manner. He shrugged off following me up as recommended and mentioned "oh by the way, you now have stones in your left kidney too" Swell. Meanwhile even though I asked them to run some tests to check on my parathyroid(I have stones and yet somehow my calcium levels were lower than normal which seems somewhat paradoxical). The tests were mildly abnormal but the endocrinologist declined to see me. He wanted more tests(which makes sense because treatment for a bad parathyroid is invasive). I get kicked out of clinic that can run those tests twice. The system was absolutely insane. Ironically, we and our insurance actually were paying for the run around. I now see an outside urologist(because yep I got my own zen rock garden in each kidney). It's just much easier.

Sorry to be so long winded but that is why I called it russian roulette.


: Wish YOU could do the HCR ad for the DNC! (none / 0) (#33)
by Spamlet on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 01:21:03 PM EST

The last paragraph is the real kicker. (none / 0) (#7)
by Faust on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 03:46:29 PM EST

Yes. These people are greedy rapacious HORRIBLE PLUTOCRATS. Ezra seems to think that when you argue with crazy people you make yourself less crazy. I think it's driven him mad.