R.I.P. Susan Atkins

By Jeralyn, Section Inmates and Prisons
Posted on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:26:05 AM EST
Tags: Susan Atkins (all tags)

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Susan Atkins, 61, has died of brain cancer in a California prison hospital.

Atkins was diagnosed with brain cancer in 2008 as she neared her fourth decade of incarceration at the California Institute for Women in Corona. The cancer caused paralysis and the loss of one leg.

Convicted of eight murders, Atkins served 38 years of a life sentence, which made her the longest-serving prisoner among women currently held in the state's penitentiaries, said Thornton. That distinction now falls to Patrcia Krenwinkle, who was convicted along with Atkins for the Tate-LaBianca murders

Atkins was serving a sentence of life, not life without parole. She was denied parole for the final time early this month. My view: [More...]

Parole boards have a duty to consider more than just the severity of the offense. Susan Atkins has had a model record of behavior while in prison. By only considering the heinousness of the crime, the parole board has usurped the power of the court and nullified her sentence, unilaterally changing it to life without parole.

That our society could not show mercy to a paralyzed, dying prisoner with one leg, who was no longer a threat to society, shows we still have not recognized, as Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King tried to teach us, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

R.I.P. Ms. Atkins.

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R.I.P. Susan Atkins | 44 comments (44 topical)

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Sad all around (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by sj on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:31:14 AM EST

May she rest in peace. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by scribe on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:52:21 AM EST

She deserved better than this.

I hope this satisfies the people who screamed and lobbied to keep her in prison. And I hope it brings back the people they lost.

She deserved better than this? (5.00 / 4) (#19)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:09:47 PM EST

Well, so did Sharon Tate and her unborn son.

[ Parent ]

: Who knows who (none / 0) (#20)
by jondee on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:21:55 PM EST

"deserves" what? Everybody in this country apparently.

[ Parent ]

She did not deserve better (none / 0) (#7)
by nyjets on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:06:34 AM EST

You are right that you can not bring back her victims. Therefore, she got exactly what she deserved: life in prison.
I also must add that and 'eye for an eye' does not apply in this case. She was not executed (or murdered by the state). Her serving a sentence of life in prison, IMO, was justice and exactly what she deserved.

[ Parent ]

medical treatment (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Oceandweller on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:23:07 AM EST

was she denied medical treatment ?
was she denied morphine ?
was she denied TLC ?
were her family/friends denied easy access to bring her consolation ?

if the answers are no...

She died in hospice care (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by oculus on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:25:26 AM EST

hospice at the prison hospital (none / 0) (#32)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 06:50:43 PM EST

"Atkins was diagnosed in 2008 with brain cancer and was receiving medical treatment at the Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla, where she died at 11:46 p.m. Thursday, said Terry Thornton, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation."

[ Parent ]

: Yes. (none / 0) (#34)
by oculus on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:23:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]

All in all, I think she was treated pretty well (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:35:05 AM EST

for the past 4 decades, considering.

Now that she's gone, may she RIP.

An eye for an eye (none / 0) (#2)
by mmc9431 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:50:47 AM EST

My religous training was very weak but I thought the end of that statement was:

"vengence is mine sayth the lord"

That seems to be forgotten by the righteous.

We've had our say (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:40:20 AM EST

and the Lord will have his now.

I think the point of the whole Manson saga is just how thoroughly a charismatic cult leader can screw up the lives of others. To put it bluntly, if people aren't mentally ill before they join up, they probably are afterward. The sad thing is that the leaders rarely get held accountable unless they commit crimes that can't be explained away. For every Manson, there's dozens of others doing permanent damage whether it's a man (and his wife) holding people prisoner for years or polygamous clans doing the same thing on a larger scale.

I'll mourn Atkins twice, once for what Manson did to her and once what the justice system did. Then I'll think of all the modern day Mansons walking around victimizing people every single day and most of those victims are women. Such a shame those SOBs aren't locked up.

[ Parent ]

Large doses of acid (none / 0) (#15)
by jondee on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:46:57 AM EST

and very confused young people who dont know who they are yet definatly dont mix.

Leary & co, for all thier utopian intentions, couldnt have been more wrong on that score, IMO.

[ Parent ]

: Leary (none / 0) (#25)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 01:21:52 PM EST

was one of those people who figure that if it works for them, it works for everybody!
Wheeeeee!
[Bows head, says a few prayers for those who found out the hard way that it didn't work for them.]
Someone who spent a while studying people would know that to be very much in error. Current advances, especially in genetics and neurochemistry, can verify and to some extent quantify that. Here's hoping we can figure out exactly what works for whom in the near future.

[ Parent ]

And let's remember, it was also forgotten ... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:07:43 PM EST

... by Susan Atkins, Charles Manson & Co. forty years ago, when they slaughtered their victims in an orgy of unprovoked and horrific violence.

That said, her debt has been now paid in full, and may she now rest in peace. It is what it is, and I'll say no more.

[ Parent ]

Uh, (none / 0) (#3)
by bocajeff on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:52:17 AM EST

You know I'm a busy guy. I run a business, have 3 kids, involved in community activities, support one charity (smile train since all of my kids have cleft palettes) and don't have time to have sympathy for everyone. Therefore, I give my sympathy to those who deserve it - not mass murderers. But that's just my opinion...

You need not have sympathy sir... (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by kdog on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:57:07 AM EST

hate her for all eternity if it floats your boat, or don't think of her at all...but if compassion is in such short supply that a one-legged, paralyzed woman on her death bed can't get some, we need to call our compassion connect and re-up pronto.

[ Parent ]

Odd, though (none / 0) (#6)
by sj on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:57:11 AM EST

that you have time to NOT have sympathy or compassion.

[ Parent ]

Yes, but (none / 0) (#12)
by bocajeff on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:37:40 AM EST

My point is that with all the crap that is going on in our country - people being murdered, homelessness, etc...to stop and take time to have sympathy for a mass murderer instead of using the time constructively toward helping those who need help is, in my view, wrong. Sure it only takes a moment to think. However, I would rather we, as a society, take care of innocents who are suffering before we take care of mass murderers who are suffering...

[ Parent ]

: I didn't realize (none / 0) (#17)
by sj on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:02:38 PM EST

that compassion was bound by time and space.

[ Parent ]
: you've made your point twice (none / 0) (#31)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 06:48:08 PM EST

now please move on.

[ Parent ]

Bottom line: not a good strategy to (none / 0) (#11)
by oculus on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:37:10 AM EST

threaten the judge and his or her family at sentencing hrg.

Did she? (none / 0) (#14)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:41:37 AM EST

Apparently didn't decide to go with "throwing herself on the mercy of the court".

Long live free will!

[ Parent ]

: Yes, per LAT obit link. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by oculus on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:56:44 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Or (none / 0) (#21)
by jbindc on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:29:51 PM EST

to kill people.

[ Parent ]

: That too. (none / 0) (#22)
by oculus on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:35:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]

we do not speak ill of the dead here (none / 0) (#33)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 06:53:31 PM EST

and bringing up these kind of tidbits is not welcome.

[ Parent ]

: I think it's hard to discuss her life... (none / 0) (#35)
by Jerrymcl89 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:43:52 PM EST

... without mentioning the people she helped to brutally murder. God can know if she truly repented and changed, but it's hard for man to know. Given her condition, I wouldn't have strongly objected if she'd been paroled, but it doesn't bother me that she wasn't. I do think there are some things you should die in prison for.

[ Parent ]

Atkins had a son... (none / 0) (#23)
by desertswine on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 12:53:25 PM EST

"... when she became pregnant by a "family" member, he (Manson) helped deliver the baby boy, naming it Zezozoze Zadfrack. His whereabouts are unknown."

Ah, I didn't know that (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by sj on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 01:08:39 PM EST

That poor boy (now man). I hope he never knows.

[ Parent ]

Sigh. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 01:25:29 PM EST

Why am I not surprised? I wonder if there are any cults that advocate contraception?

[ Parent ]

Cults, whether orthodox as in organized religions, (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by hairspray on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 01:33:34 PM EST

or unorthodox, as in unorganized religions seem to like lots of pregnant women to produce warriors or followers, take your pick.

[ Parent ]

: it also (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 02:37:04 PM EST

keeps many members in a vulnerable state. one is less like to lead a rebellion or leave the "support system" of the cult if pregnant or caring for small children.

[ Parent ]

I have less sympathy (none / 0) (#36)
by weltec2 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 09:06:59 PM EST

for her than say Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme who should have been put in a mental hospital and never sent to prison in the first place. Susan was always very spooky even years later.

From a John Waters memoir about Leslie Van Houten (none / 0) (#37)
by lcdrrek on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 01:30:26 AM EST

"Leslie Van Houten has served more time than any Nazi war criminal who was not sentenced to death at Nuremberg. She has served more time that any of the Nazi defendants who were sentenced to life in prison except for Hitler's deputy, Rudolph Hess, who died in his fortieth year in prison (the exact amount of time Leslie has now served). She's served more time than Lt. William Calley who was originally sentenced to life in prison for the My Lai massacre of hundreds of Vietnamese civilians. She has served longer than the surviving female member of the Baader Meinhoff Gang, a German terrorist group who murdered thirty-four people for left-wing "politics" and "revolution."

You can substitute Susan Atkins name for Ms. Van Houten's in this quote. From what I have read about Ms. Atkins she did express remorse for her crimes. We seem to have a short supply of compassion around here today.

Remorse is to late (none / 0) (#38)
by nyjets on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 05:03:26 AM EST

It is all well and good and that Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten are remorseful for there crimes. The simple fact,however, it is to late. THey are murders and nothing changes that.For that reason, life in prison should be there fate.

[ Parent ]

A couple of things (none / 0) (#39)
by jbindc on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 06:49:20 AM EST

Atkins/Van Houten served more time than Nazi war criminals, et al because they were younger when they committed and were convicted of their crimes.

You must also remember that Atkins got 25-30 years of life that she should not have had, as she was sentenced to death. It is not speaking ill of the dead to point out why we're talking about them in the first place. Had Atkins not been a participant in 8 horrific murders, her death would not even be a subject of a blog post. Now, it's up to her Maker to decide what her fate is for eternity.

[ Parent ]

Again, what Bugilosi said (none / 0) (#40)
by Dark Avenger on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 08:02:33 AM EST

Others, including former Manson prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, said it was a question of mercy. He told The Times it was wrong to say "just because Susan Atkins showed no mercy to her victims, we therefore are duty-bound to follow her inhumanity and show no mercy to her."

Mandatory Link

[ Parent ]

In some cases, the person should deserve mercy (none / 0) (#41)
by nyjets on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 08:33:21 AM EST

At one level, I do understand what people are saying, mercy is not 'earned.'
But I am of the opinion that in some cases (and for some people) the person should deserve mercy.
In the case of murders, there has to be some mitigating factor that can allow a person to say: 'This person should be shown mercy for what he or she did.'

Susan Atkins crimes were just too heinous. She helped slaughter 8 people. She can never make up for what she did and further, provide no valid mitigating factor to explain what she did. She fits in the category of people who did not deserve mercy. She deserved to die in prison.

[ Parent ]

In that case, as Shakespear had one (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by Dark Avenger on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 08:48:34 AM EST

of his characters say:

Use every man after his desert, and who shall 'scape whipping?

Mercy is to show what we are made of, that we can rise above vengeance and mere retaliation.

Are we any wiser or better because Susan Atkins was denied mercy?

I would also put it to everyone that Bugalosi is correct, we demonstrate we are on the same level as her when we engage in the kind of thinking you so eloquently outline, nystray.

[ Parent ]

: This point does annoy me (none / 0) (#43)
by nyjets on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 09:04:32 AM EST

I am slightly annoyed by this notion that by not wanting to show mercy to a murder, this makes a person 'bad' for lack of a better word.
Having a person die in prison for murder and not wanting her to get out does not say anything bad about society or people in general. Nor does it put 'us' as in society at her level.
Now if she was executed, you would be right. If she was tortured throughout her entire prison sentence you would be right. If she was made to live in filth and squalor for the rest of her days you would be right. However, all that happened was she was made to spend the rest of her life in prison. That does not put society at her level.

[ Parent ]

It really shouldn't. (none / 0) (#44)
by Dark Avenger on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 09:17:11 AM EST

I am slightly annoyed by this notion that by not wanting to show mercy to a murder, this makes a person 'bad' for lack of a better word.

No, it means one isn't interested in rising to a 'better self', which is a different concept that what you outline.

It means that we say being on her level is fine, even while condemning her at the same time. I would term that hypocrisy, YMMV.

If you are annoyed by what I wrote over a point I've not stated, that's your problem, not something I intended to create or even suggest towards you and others who hold your POV.

Minor Point (none / 0) (#45)
by nyjets on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 09:30:35 AM EST

When I said 'slightly annoyed' I did not mean to be nasty or anything or to accuse you of anything. It that came out, I am sorry, that was not my intent. I merely meant to state I do not like point of view.
Again, it what I typed was offense, I am sorry, that was not my intent.

Last point, you and I will probable never agree on this point. In my opinion, wanting to her to die in prison does not put me on her level nor does it smack of hypocrisy. It is merely a desire to punish a murder.

[ Parent ]

: I never took offense about that point (none / 0) (#46)
by Dark Avenger on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 09:58:09 AM EST

just that if what you came away with from what I wrote here was that you should 'feel bad' that's your dilemma to solve, not mine as I didn't originate it.

[ Parent ]

R.I.P. Susan Atkins

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