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Wednesday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:31:59 PM EST
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The Obama Adminstration says enough to disclosure of CIA-detainee documents in the ACLU's FOIA lawsuit. The ACLU is not pleased.

Susan Atkins, paralyzed and dying, is up for parole again. She wanted to appear in person:

Atkins, 61, is riddled with cancer, paralyzed over most of her body and has had her left leg amputated. "She is kind of poor condition -- poor, but stable condition." Atkins is able to speak, but is not capable of entering the hearing room on her own....

Enough already. It's been 40 years. Let her out. Update: She was denied parole today.

The SEC's Inspector General has a report saying the SEC bungled the Bernie Madoff probe for years. [More...]

President Obama will make a national speech on health care next Wednesday night.

Ok, dinner time here, this is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Levi Johnston Claims His Due Against Sarah Palin in VF | Dying, Paralyzed Amputee Susan Atkins Denied Parole >

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    Wednesday Night Open Thread | 69 comments (69 topical)

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    "Kind of" poor condition? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Edger on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:53:29 PM EST
    I agree. Let her out.

    Thank the Buddhas for an open thread (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:56:00 PM EST
    Troutfishing at Orange drives me nuts, always writing diaries about the military becoming a division of American Christianity.  I just don't read it anymore.  Today though my husband brought home a bunch of stuff ACS for his deployment.  I was supposed to go but Joshua, myself, and my daughter have the flu.  It has hit here very hard, the whole community sans my spouse seems to be down with it.  Anyhow with all the stuff the spouse brought home I discover a find a baggy of reading material with the top pamphlet reading 'Our Daily Bread', Military Ministry Rapid Deployment Kit.  It is provided by Military Ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ and website address of www.milmim.com.  There is also a smaller pamphlet with the title 'Would You Like To Know God Personally?'....yeah cuz ACS can get you in touch with him/her I guess.  Who knew they had such connections?  There is also a camo covered New Testament with the same organization name on it.  I'm not going to raise Holy Hell right now because that isn't exactly what is needed right before my spouse deploys.....but once he is off I'm going off.  This is some bullspit!!!  I don't know where ACS gets off dispersing this crap but you can bet if they are handing it out because it was given to them free I'll be bringing some Wiccan material over along with copies of the 'Book of the Dead'.  I'm too sick right now to look up if this is the organization who Troutfishing is alway gunning for.  I'll do it tomorrow.  What a bunch of B.S. though

    Sorry for typos.....sick.....ticked off (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:56:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Gee, (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:05:50 PM EST
    I always read Troutfishing and appreciate his/her vigilance over the Christianization of the US military.  

    Parent
    Troutfishing diaries to me are a bit (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:49:44 AM EST
    over the top.  The U.S. military isn't a bunch of Christian crusaders.  Now are there organizations out there interested in morphing it into something like that. Yes.  Has the military had some evangelical commanders lately that had to reprimanded?  Yes.  Did the Bush administration try very hard to ignore separation between church and state?  Yes.  The military that I have been introduced to has a long standing tradition of keeping religion out of the mission.  Whenever we are visiting a military cemetary it seems most obvious to me because the tombstones sport diffferent insignia based on the soldiers religious beliefs or lack of them.  Never before have I had a more profound sense that what binds Americans together goes much deeper than religion.  Do we have some religious organizations attempting to trespass on sacred traditions?  It would seem so and they need to called on it, challenged, things need to be done on an administrative level.  I will investigate this out.  It will give me something to do and not worry about spouse too.  This may be an issue for the Inspector General.

    Parent
    What's ACS? (none / 0) (#64)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:00:11 PM EST


    Parent
    ACS is Army Community Services (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:52:19 PM EST
    They are part of the support system that exists within Army infrastructure for Army families.  I was suppose to meet with them yesterday as well and they would make certain that my spouse had left all the necessary power of attorney I may need while he's gone.  It isn't my first deployment though....but a lot about military life consists of checking the required box that corresponds with the circumstance. They give out information on how to handle the stress of deploying and then the stress of reintegration back into home and family after deployment.  The book they sent home is very positive with different scenarios represented.....missing the scenarios where returning soldiers drown spouses that they are fighting with in bathtubs (sorry, dark humor but the book is very Mickey Mouse Club stuff).  They have a booklet for me and my husband on how to have a long distance relationship :)  I'm reluctant to open it and find out what I've done wrong so far :)  I already know that by the book standards I'm not cheerful enough and don't vacuum in pearls often enough:)  But they also provide some things I do take seriously, there is a schedule for the youth center and different weekend things Joshua can do that are fun and geared toward the kids surviving a parent deployment.  Some local businesses will throw in some discount certificates to the family.  I take hands on interaction within my community seriously.  All the nice books and pamphlets that paint everything in glowing happy colors annoy me because it is for the most part propagandaish about how wonderful everything will be.  They leave out the parts when the soldier calls home sobbing because someone got hit with an IED.  My favorite thing they sent home though was a letter writing kit for Joshua where the letter folds up and becomes its own envelope that he can send to his dad.  Letters during deployment as so much better than phone calls.  You can stick them in your sock drawer, reread them, know that the person on the other end made contact with this same thing...made it just for you and then sent it to you.

    Parent
    Ahh.. Thank you.. (none / 0) (#69)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 01:02:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Hope you and yours feel better soon. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:07:00 PM EST
    Let me know if I can do anything. I'm way up north now, but still on US 431. The mail does run from here to there!

    Parent
    Wash the mail :) (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:56:16 AM EST


    Parent
    Me too. (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:15:45 PM EST
    Especially after reading about the antics and hi-jinx of those Wackenhut sickos "guarding" our Embassy in Kabul.  

    Parent
    Here's a little CDC goodness (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 07:44:37 AM EST
    for you.
    [CDC regional map of flu-like illnesses]

    We are still safe, but the southern regions are already seeing an uptick of flu like illnesses.  

    Parent

    Swine flu has hit the colleges (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:05:25 AM EST
    here in MO.

    My grandson's roommate just down with the flu. Not determined yet what strain he has. Hopefully all the kids and the faculty will get through this without any serious repercussions.

    Parent

    I've phoned Joshua's doctor (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:55:33 AM EST
    He seems pretty convinced that we are being hit with a wave of H1N1.  He did say though that inspite of everyone being sick, the community is recuperating very well.  The school was phoning students absent yesterday and there were so many that the school nurse couldn't do them all herself and the teachers were phoning their students and then giving her written reports. One of the kennel club members also manages the hospital lab and has reported that older persons are doing better than expected and they suspect that some older folks around here may have some past dealings with H1N1 giving them a hand.

    Parent
    all of us 45+ folks (none / 0) (#66)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:26:10 PM EST
    had the potential to be exposed in the 60s and 70s... some amount of resistance there.

    Parent
    I'm 44 (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:57:17 PM EST
    I'm part of some sort of lost years.  They keep telling me I'm a babyboomer....but I'm really not.  Maybe generation X?  No, not really, those guys are a couple of years farther down the road.  I think I'm the Just Say Yes generation.  Nancy kept telling us to say No but her husband wouldn't lay off the getting nuked by the Reds scenario and there wasn't much to look forward to so we all just said Yes :)

    Parent
    This is the speech I would like to (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:07:57 PM EST
    hear from Obama on health care:

    "A public option is a fundamental part of ensuring health care reform brings about real change. Opposing the public plan is an endorsement of the status quo in this country that has left tens of millions of Americans uninsured or underinsured and put massive burdens on employers.  I have heard too many horror stories from my constituents about how the so-called competitive marketplace has denied them coverage from the outset, offered a benefit plan that covers everything but what they need or failed them some other way.  A strong public option would ensure competition in the industry to provide the best, most affordable insurance for Americans and bring down the skyrocketing health care costs that are the biggest contributor to our long-term budget deficits. I am not interested in passing health care reform in name only.  Without a public option, I don't see how we will bring real change to a system that has made good health care a privilege for those who can afford it."  link
    NPR playing Aida tonight., (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:12:37 PM EST
    since I don't have a TV yet (and if I did, I have no cable,satellite, nor a converter box). I've been without for almost a month now. So... at night I read, listen to NPR or sports, come to TalkLeft, read more, and fall asleep.

    Amazingly, my stress is much less. I'll regret a little getting a television. I can watch movies on my computer, the news is available, but the 'idiot box' as it was called growing up is not an issue.

    I might need to go without for another couple of months... I think I was a television junkie!

    If you like Aida (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:52:39 PM EST
    the Met is going to simulcast it this season in local theaters.

    Celeste Aida....tu sei regina....sigh...

    Parent

    Now I'm really jealous! (none / 0) (#35)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 05:18:49 AM EST
    We can see the OSU Buckeyes play live on a local big screen theatre (no 3D just yet) complete with quality microbrews, but you get OPERA!  

    Sigh....
    There's just no comparison.  

    Parent

    You cause me to remember (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:03:32 AM EST
    having to spend summer at the ranch.  Television was by antenna.  A.M. radio was very important in all the vehicles.  Rock and roll was a kind of rebellion, we blared it.  I read a lot of books that were around.  Came to have a scary grasp of animal husbandry for an 11 year old, probably why I like this whole dog breeding thing.  By the end of the summer though, you could even find yourself looking forward to Lawrence Welk.  And I was a calm, well worked, well rested child all at the same time entering into a new school year.

    Parent
    It's a BOY! (5.00 / 9) (#8)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:17:34 PM EST
    From the ultrasound today, looks like I'm now going to be a great aunt to a lil' dude {grin} I'm sure my Dad is thrilled, lol!~ he's been surrounded by us girls, forever! Even commented to my Mom about how much he loves their newest beagle Abby, but he had wanted a boy. Me, I'm shopping for Yankee gear for the lil' dude. Not sure how Dad's gonna feel about that, but I think I've got the jump on branding the lil' dude :) Much happier buying boy gear vs girl. My niece and I aren't really 'pink' girls*, so buying some nice Yankee navy and grey will work well. This is going to be to fun!

    * Yes, I will walk around in public in my pink Yankees Universe tee. It started out as a joke . . .

    I love good news (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:06:18 AM EST
    Congratulations!!!!!  We are so many girls around here too, and we don't know for certain what my daughter is having but they sort of got an accidental peak during an ultrasound.  It looks like a girl, but nobody was trying hard to see...we could be surprised.  I'd love another boy to mix things up around here.

    Parent
    congratulatons are in order! (none / 0) (#9)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:21:52 PM EST
    Time also to begin looking at universities...

    My sister says playing dress-up with tiny relatives is a lot more fun than with dolls... and she's on her second grandchild.

    Congrats again to youyou, your niece, and your dad!

    Parent

    Thanks! (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:42:42 PM EST
    Yes, dressing up tiny relatives is much more fun. The one having the baby, is the one who I bought her first pair of high tops for, on her 1st birthday, oh so many years ago! They were red and she loved them. She was also fascinated from day one (that we met) with my attire. We are 2 peas in a pod ;)

    Before universities, we'll be dealing with childcare etc. Now, I'm not only moving home (to CA, not the house) to help with elderly parents, but a newborn. I do think the new great grandson will really help with Dad's health and wellness though :)

    As of yesterday, it seems my parents have taken in another child. A daughter left behind by an addict friend of my niece. A 7yo (soon to be 8 in a couple weeks). Very sad situation right now, but I'm thrilled my parents are looking out for her, as is my niece. Niece is getting the mom into detox and brought the child home. They've got a full plate and I'm all the way across the country :-/

    Parent

    ok, first thing you do, (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by cpinva on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:41:56 PM EST
    after dressing him, is take him out fishing. get him started right. or have your dad do it. trust me, they'll both get a kick out of it.

    i took both my kids as soon as they could reasonably hold a rod. we went to a pond where i was about 100% certain they would catch something (no fun if nothing happens!), and they both did. they've been reasonably civilized humans since. oh, we practice "catch & release", and use barbless hooks.

    as near as i can tell, the best thing about being a relative, is that you get to give them back! :)

    Parent

    Congratulations to you and your family, (none / 0) (#12)
    by caseyOR on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:36:19 PM EST
    especially the expectant mom. A baby is such a gift. Buying the tiny clothes is great fun. I hated dolls as a child, but found I loved dressing the real-life babies. I was especially fond of the teeny tiny shoes for the just started walking crowd.

    I'd be happy to send along some Cubs gear so the little guy has a National League team, too. Keep in mind that rooting for the Cubs builds character.

    Parent

    lol!~ (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:50:52 PM EST
    Cubs gear might be in order! I actually have a very cool throw back vintage Cub jersey. I'm sure my Dad would like to see Giants gear, but . . . . until the Bay Area starts performing, I feel I have the rights to sports branding on the lil' dude ;) Come to think of it, both of my parents are from Il, so I may not have a prob with their teams!

    Thanks for the congrats! We're all pretty excited (uh, maybe not my sister!). See above (jeff in al) about the shoes I bought for the expectant mom on her first birthday ;)

    Parent

    My favorite toddler gear (none / 0) (#63)
    by sj on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 11:45:23 AM EST
    for my son was a pair of Levi jeans.  They were awesome.  The real deal, pockets, rivets and all -- no elasticized waist band; a real zipper (big butt, though, to accomodate the diaper).  He was the second child to wear them.  I kept track of them through two more cousins, and then I don't know who got them.

    We both loved those jeans...

    Parent

    Here is to a healthy and happy baby (none / 0) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:59:30 PM EST
    and Mom.

    I've always had fun buying boy toys. Sounds like you will too.

    Parent

    Thanks! (none / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:28:20 PM EST
    and yeah, buying "boy" will be right up my alley! No worry about offending anyone if I don't buy their version of "girl" either  ;)

    Parent
    Congratulations!!! Fun times. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:14:02 PM EST
    It goes both ways, though....boys need toys that allow them to cuddle and nurture, too. :)


    Parent
    Shades of things to come? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:29:49 PM EST
    Democrats retained a fiercely contested House seat in a special election Tuesday, turning aside Republican hopes to showcase a victory as a sign that Iowa's political tide has turned.

    Democratic candidate Curt Hanson, a retired schoolteacher, won against GOP candidate and Jefferson County Supervisor Stephen Burgmeier by 3,932 to 3,825 votes, according to unofficial tallies.

    Link

    Keep in mind this is white, rural Iowa--the true heartland, the center of fly-over county or what $arah Palin would call "real" America.  A prime opportunity for the GOP to pick-up a win and they failed.  

    It's a typically Dem district (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:00:41 PM EST
    correct?  And won by only 107 votes.  But the Dem was up against a real push by the anti-gay marriage forces, pouring on the ads, from what I read.  So I think we can see this will be an issue de jour for those forces to move on to fight again against Dems.

    Parent
    Ah, but (none / 0) (#11)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:33:02 PM EST
    as my friends at Bleeding Heartland say, "Never underestimate the power of a well-liked local teacher in politics."

    Parent
    Guess that's why... (none / 0) (#15)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:56:41 PM EST
    ...the GOP threw a ton of money into trying to portray him as the second coming of "unpopular" Governor Chet Culver.

    The political action committee associated with Iowans for Tax Relief paid for ads in the past month that said Hanson "is a threat to the pocketbook of all Iowans" and compared him to Gov. Chet Culver, who Republican surveys indicate has low favorability ratings.

    Iowans do take a lot of pride in their educational system and teachers are held in high(er) esteem than some places.  But, I come from these people and it's the politics and the person that matters, not the occupation.  

    Parent

    Good news, no doubt (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:05:51 PM EST


    Parent
    John Kerry- the next Teddy Kennedy? (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by caseyOR on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:00:01 PM EST
    I just read this story in the NY Times about Kerry's plan to pick up Teddy's mantle and run with it. I have to say, Kerry's comment about health care reform have been sorely lacking IMO.

    And really, John Kerry as the new Teddy Kennedy? What is Kerry drinking?

    Well I guess that is marginally (none / 0) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:16:15 PM EST
    better than the suggestion that the new "Ted Kennedy" would be John McCain.

    If Kerry's comments regarding health care are an example of picking up Teddy's mantle and running with it, we are in even worse trouble than I thought. Kerry is the genius that floated the plan that  a public health care option would only be triggered by private insurance companies failing to meet certain criteria after ten years.

    Parent

    Curt Schilling the new Teddy? (none / 0) (#32)
    by caseyOR on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:44:10 PM EST
    More in today's Bay State senate race news--- Former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling is pondering a run for Teddy's seat. Schilling is a registered independent who has supported numerous Republicans including George Bush.

    Okay, Red Sox Nation, what do you think? Could Curt win this race?

    Parent

    Hah (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by CST on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:37:42 AM EST
    Not a chance in hell a republican is taking Teddy's seat.  He might be registered as an independent, but he's an outspoken conservative.

    Bloody sock or no bloody sock.

    The only thing funnier would be to have Mitt Romney run for the seat.  It would put the idea to rest that he can win in a state like MA.  Fool us once, shame on you, but it's not gonna happen a second time.  Only Mitt Romney already knows it and he's not that stupid.

    Parent

    He was on a Sunday show (This Week, I (none / 0) (#24)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:07:01 PM EST
    think) with Orrin Hatch. Hatch made a complimentary statement about Kennedy, then continued to a clumsy inclusion of Kerry as being in the same league. The look on Kerry's face was so arrogant, I had to change the channel instantly. He honestly believes he is in Kennedy's league, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has some paid minions trying to get this image of him as the next Lion picked up by the press.


    Parent
    Another reason why prescription drugs (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:27:19 PM EST
    cost so much.

    WASHINGTON - People familiar with a record settlement to be announced Wednesday say Pfizer Inc., the world's largest drugmaker, will pay a $2.3 billion civil penalty over unlawful prescription drug promotions.
    ....
    In financial filings in January, the company indicated that it would pay $2.3 billion over allegations it had marketed the pain reliever Bextra and possibly other products for medical conditions different than their approved use. link
    The only place (2.00 / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:54:33 AM EST
    Phizer can get $2.3 billion is by increasing prices.

    If these people have broken the law, why not put them in jail? Maybe make them work weekends and holidays for 5 years emptying bedpans in a hospital... Instead the same government who who tells us they want to lower health care costs.....increases health care costs.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Parent

    Pfizer (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 07:39:22 AM EST
    was marketing a risky drug (since pulled from the market) for unapproved, off label use.

    In other words, it was fine with Pfizer if their drugs caused death, damage and suffering from heart attacks linked to their drug.  The most effective way to keep costs down is to prevent disease.  Selling people a drug that will actually increase their chances of becoming ill is not going to keep health care costs down.  

    Parent

    Two wrongs do not make a right (2.00 / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:12:14 AM EST
    Please note that I said put'em jail...instead of using them to raise revenues.

    That would not increase drug costs. Using criminals as a revenue source has nothing to do with justice.

    Parent

    Who do you put in jail? (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:54:02 AM EST
    The whole point of a corporation is protection from legal action - you can punish the corporation, but not the actual people.  Since you can't put the corp. in jail, you can only use financial punishment.

    Parent
    Wouldn't it be easier... (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:05:03 AM EST
    just to require Pfizer and the rest of the dope trade slap a "Use at your own risk" label, along with the ingredients and the possible side-effects on the jar and call it a day...everybody grows up enough to be responsible for what they put in their own bodies or in the bodies of the minors in their care....everybody grows up enough to know commercials aren't educational videos but sales pitches meant to part you from your dollar.  I mean jeez...can I sue Calgon for not taking me away to a relaxing paradise as advertised?

    Bam...this way no fines that get passed on to the consumer supposedly harmed, no cages for human beings to "protect" others from their own stupidity, and let freedom ring.

    Parent

    Having gone through (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:15:19 AM EST
    about 6 months of pain and discomfort caused by "side effects" I can tell you they list'em all so you have to decide if you are in the < 5%, etc.

    And I agree that drug commercials should not be allowed.. or better said, I believe... You would say let the buyer beware...  (Think how many people watch wrestling.)

    Parent

    And think of all that money we can (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:39:19 AM EST
    save if we just eliminate the FDA and the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the FAA and whatever agency regulates car and truck safety.  We won't need OSHA anymore, since we'll all just be working at our own risk, right?  There's no sense in the government paying all those billions to make sure anything is safe when we can all just take our chances.  This could be really exciting, and make adrenlaine junkies of us all!

    Hey, and if we're going that route, there go all the lawsuits, too - so we can reduce the backlog on our court system.  Don't know what the lawyers will be doing with all their free time, but I'm sure they can think of something.  Maybe, since we're all just paying our money and taking our chances, we don't really need lawyers and doctors and nurses to be licensed - heck, people can just set up shop as doctors and lawyers after watching marathons of Law & Order and ER - and those Discovery Health archived shows are going to come in real handy for the difficult stuff.

    It might solve the health care reform problem, too - with so much risk, no one will have insurance, and those companies will just go out of business.  Getting care might be a problem, since we won't be sure the doctor who is treating us isn't just a huge George Clooney fan who learned everything he knows about medicice from ER, but, there will be plenty of cheap drugs that may or may not work, and if they kill us, well, end of problem, right?

    That's going to be some kind of freedom, isn't it?  I'll keep an eye out for a nice island for you, kdog - sad to say that I think the kind of freedom you want only works when you are completely on your own.  But good luck getting there in the plane that may not have been inspected or repaired, or the ship in the same condition.  You might not want to take provisions, since you won't be sure the food and beverages are safe to eat and drink.  Maybe you can grow your own - there you go, problem solved.

    You might be able to start a one-man movement back to a time when people lived in caves...

    Parent

    I think there is a happy... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:49:44 AM EST
    medium to be found between anarcho-capitalism and the way we roll now, rigged and over-regulated.

    But I could be wrong...maybe we can over-regulate, stack the deck, fine, and punish ourselves into better living...who knows.

    Parent

    Yes you can put the people in jail (2.00 / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:03:42 AM EST
    responsible for corporate crimes. Remember ENRON? QWEST? Other communication companies??

    Parent
    That's not entirely true. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:59:35 AM EST
    You can revoke the permits and licensing a business needs to operate - but that's rare.

    Parent
    Interesting point (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:21:26 AM EST
    If Pfizer could generate $2.3 billion in additional revenues by raising its prices, why wouldn't it have already done so?  Surely as a public company they always seek to maximize their profits whether or not they have a big judgment to pay off.

    Parent
    Prices are raised (2.00 / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:07:33 AM EST
    to the point possible at that time.

    There are always a variety of reasons to raise or not raise X amount.

    Parent

    And the number one... (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:31:30 AM EST
    reason to raise prices (or reduce costs) is when executive compensation is threatened.

    Parent
    Believe me (none / 0) (#60)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 10:15:31 AM EST
    if they could raise prices and make more money, they would gladly do so, regardless of whether executive compensation is threatened or they have to pay a government fine or whatever.  They're in business to make money.

    The reason they don't charge higher prices is that they think it would hurt them competitively, meaning they'd lose business and their profits would go down rather than up.  They're not voluntarily keeping prices low out of the goodness of their heart.

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    Do they make money (2.00 / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 11:07:22 AM EST
    because they have a great product..

    Or do they have a great product because they made money....?

    The drug companies make their real money on drugs they have developed and have a patent on. To do that they need capital. Lots of it.

    Like I said, put the perps in jail. Let the remaining ones not have to raise $2.3 billion explicitly to pay the Feds.

    Who knows, they might find a cure for cancer.....

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    You're right... (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 10:30:14 AM EST
    but I tend to think staying competitive goes out the window when things get so tight the golf outing might get cancelled, or the executive bonus might be missing a zero at the end.

    Cutting costs will come first if your competitor is already beating your price...laying people off, jacking up the employess health insurance contribution, etc...but if that ain't enough the prices are being increased before the golf outing gets cancelled...one thing the high-level American executive has taught us is they will trash their own companies before they sacrifice a dime of compensation...the golden parachute is there waiting.

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    Uh (none / 0) (#26)
    by The Last Whimzy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:18:53 PM EST
    When Pfizer originally disclosed the settlement figure, it also announced plans to acquire rival Wyeth for $68 billion. That deal, which would bolster Pfizer's position as the world's top drugmaker by revenue, is expected to close before year's end.

    Shares of Pfizer were up 9 cents at $16.47 in early trading Wednesday.

    sheese.

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    Spitzer is (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:29:32 PM EST
    teaching a class at CCNY.

    Shame he burned out so fast; his "steamrolling" philosophy is much-needed in the White House.

    Nature notes. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:52:09 AM EST
    Another winter wren sighting!

    Bus late this morning so I went to find out what bird was the source of the chrrrring scolds (these are usually alarm calls).  It was a wren, but I thought it was too small to be a house wren.  Looked it up when I got home - small bill, small tail, small bird - a winter wren.  Last sighting was four years ago.

    Saw the momma hummingbird harass a titmouse yesterday.  First time I saw a hummer interact with another bird - it chased the titmouse away from one location fifty feet up in the cherry tree.  Never have located a hummer nest in all the years I've had one nesting here.

    donald raises an interesting point, (none / 0) (#29)
    by cpinva on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:03:44 PM EST
    kind of indirectly:

    jeralyn, your stated position is that "Life w/o Parole" would be a better than capital punishment, which i agree with. however, it would seem that ms. atkins' crime would qualify for that, yet you feel she should be paroled, solely because of her medical condition, and the amount of time she's already spent behind bars.

    i realize she wasn't sentenced to LWP, but if she had been, would this still be your position?

    she was sentenced to life with parole (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:44:00 PM EST
    Under the law she was sentenced under, she was eligible for parole ages ago, that's why she has had so many parole hearings. I don't believe the severity of the crime should be the only arbiter in any parole case. She was a model prisoner and she's dying. She's been punished. It's time to let her out. She should have been released before she got sick. I've been writing this since 2003. What meaning does life with parole have if it's automatically denied because of the crime? None.

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    If she is dying (2.00 / 0) (#34)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:56:29 PM EST
    she needs hospice care: intensive symptom control and pain control along with spiritual support.  

    I'm not sure why she couldn't get this in prison.  

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    Jeralyn...do you know the Senate Parlementarian? (none / 0) (#40)
    by steviez314 on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:02:06 AM EST
    Alan Frumin...according to the Slate write-up on him, he went to New Rochelle HS.  I'm guessing he's about 3 years or so older than you.

    movie suggestion (none / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:26:43 AM EST
    Surveillance

    I really suggest putting this on your netflix list.
    just out on DVD, directed by Jennifer Chambers Lynch (Davids daughter)it is great.  cant talk much about it without spoilers but it is nothing you expect.  looking at Rotten Tomatoes I found it interesting that most of the positive reviews were from women and most of the negative ones were from men.  not sure what that means but I found it interesting.

    "Surveillance" started out as a script about witches. Director Jennifer Lynch took a whack at it and made a movie about devils -- the human kind. The picture is twisted and disturbing and funny, too. Lynch has pushed the material to the wall -- she has a gift for violence and perversity, and she never pulls back.  
    PBS... (none / 0) (#65)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:04:26 PM EST
    American Masters had a great show about Dalton Trumbo on last night. I couldn't tell anyone because I'm currently computerless at home. But they usually re-run these shows at some time and it's really worth the watch.

    Nathan Lane reading one of Trumbo's letters to his son at school was just brilliant.

    I just got (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 03:15:10 PM EST
    Johnnie Got His Gun from netflix.  what an amazing movie.
    I was able to turn all my coworker/children on to this amazing film.

    they were all, like, woah, thats from that Metallica video.



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    Wednesday Night Open Thread | 69 comments (69 topical)

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