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Late Night: Wasted Time

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:00:00 AM EST
Tags: health care reform (all tags)
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Well, did we get anywhere spending the entire summer blogging about health care? Or was it wasted time? Should we have stuck to the crime reform issues that have made even less progress since Obama took office?

Your thoughts? I'll be in court early in the morning so I'm posting this now. It's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Sherrod Brown: Let's Pretend Obama Committed To The Public Option | Malkin On Manufactured Outrage >

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    Late Night: Wasted Time | 45 comments (45 topical)

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    Fish or Cut Bait?? (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:37:30 AM EST
    If I have been counting correctly, and legislators are really telling the truth when they say(actually pledge) they will vote for a bill with this or that, and not for one with something else, then there will be NO Health Care Bill.

    The Progressives won't vote for one without a Public Plan, and the Blue Dogs and Republicans won't vote for one with a Public Plan.

    And I believe that there are very very few Republicans that will vote for any plan because they see the Democrats being thrown under the bus if a plan doesn't pass.

    That is the Republican Plan and it makes sense to them.
    Whether the Progressive Plan makes sense or not depends on whether the Progressives are planning to Fish or just Cut some more Bait!

    Ergo!  No Plan!

    Your devotion to this site, (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by Spamlet on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:40:18 AM EST
    whether focused on "the politics of crime" or the crime of politics, is heroic. Never a waste of time, in my book.

    I second that... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 08:52:44 AM EST
    its our legislators and president that have been wasting time...a cynic would say stalling and fostering angst on purpose.  Keep the proles arguing and the right people paid and all is right in legislative land.

    Parent
    Any misgivings I had ... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:20:28 AM EST
    ... about President Obama's health care speech tonight were tossed out the window when the Republican catcalls started raining down mid-speech, culminating in the disgraceful insult shouted out to the president by Congressman Joe Wilson (R-Clancy's Pool Hall).

    Absolutely no way am I ever going to countenance letting that rabid pack of wild-eyed GOP white-wing wackadoodles get their slimy hands on the rudder of our ship of state. No. Effin. Way.

    I'm confident that President Obama will get his health care bill, and it will be significant reform. As far as I'm concerned, the Republicans' disrespectful frathouse behavior tonight pretty much sealed that deal.

    It will (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 05:15:11 AM EST
    only be good reform if the PC holds firm. OTherwise this is a piece of garbage that will haunt the party for a decade or more.

    Passing a piece of garbage as a knee jerk reaction to the crazies in the GOP does nothing for the country or the party. If fact it makes everything worse.

    Parent

    But yet (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 06:51:56 AM EST
    And these are the very people Obama continues to try and pacify!

    Just put a bill together and ram it through.

    Parent

    He's positioned himself brilliantly. (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:09:05 AM EST
    Lat night, President Obama came across forceful, calling out GOP mischaracterizations of his proposal as "a lie" and "completely false", and yet calm and reasonable, offering magnanimously his hand across the aisle in a manner that effectively marginalized the Republicans for the rest of this debate as almost completely inconsequential.

    The intemperate outbursts from Republicans in the House chambers last night in response to the president only further served to render them positively juvenile in comparison.

    Couple that with the salacious yet unrelated story that also dominated the news cycle earlier in the day, of a middle-aged California GOP state legislator's adolescent-level sexual braggadio into an open mic at a public hearing in Sacramento, and I'd say that overall, yesterday turned out to be a very bad day for Republicans publicly. The only way they could have made it worse for themselved would have been if they had tapped little Bobby Jindal to give another Howdy Doody-type response to the president's address.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    So, because Republicans s*ck... (4.00 / 3) (#23)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:19:35 AM EST
    ... Obama's speech doesn't?

    What kind of logic is that? What do you think this is, a sport?

    I'm on the side that the other two sides are trying to suppress!

    Parent

    As always, Lambert, yours is a marginal ... (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:36:07 AM EST
    ... yet fully self-absorbed opinion that serves only to inflate your own ego. On the side of the suppressed, indeed! Who do you think you are - Tom Joad in The Grapes of Wrath?

    If you ever want to discuss issues in a rational and adult manner sans your insulting demeanor and condescending attitude, let me know. Until then, I've little interest in indulging your inner liberal drama queen.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    If Obama and the Demos (1.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:09:05 AM EST
    go into a swoon over a dummie Repub yelling "liar," what will they do when that 3:00AM call comes?

    Parent
    LOL! Touche! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:39:56 AM EST
    "Prissy, get me my smelling salts. I feel faint!"

    Parent
    I said nothing about the accuracy of Obama's (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 04:26:42 PM EST
    claim, only that if being called a liar bothers the Left then they aren't qualified to lead.

    I didn't mention Surrender Harry calling Bush a liar, and all the other insults by various Demos and even some past and present contributors in this forum.

    Wouldn't be prudent. I mean that has been such a part of the game for the past 9 years that I am shocked... yes shocked... to hear all the whining.

    But since you have followed me over here...the fact is that Wilson was correct. There is nothing in the bill currently that keeps illegal aliens out. Two amendments introduced to do that have been rejected by Democrats. The "framework" you mention is like me saying I want Denver to win the World Series. Neither has been put to the test.

    Perhaps Obama mis-spoke as he did when he discovered we had 57 states.... I mean these things, as all our Presidents have proven, do happen.

    No doubt he meant he would not sign a bill that did not explicitly reject coverage of  the 14 million illegal aliens that we have in the country.

    Yes. That's it. No doubt. Uh-Huh. Sure.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Since you keep on following me (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:22:43 PM EST
    Here's the video of Surrender Reid surrendering.

    And if you want:

    MR. RUSSERT: When the president talked about Yucca Mountain and moving the nation's nuclear waste there, you were very, very, very strong in your words. You said, "President Bush is a liar. He betrayed Nevada and he betrayed the country."

    Is that rhetoric appropriate?

    SEN. REID: I don't know if that rhetoric is appropriate. That's how I feel, and that's how I felt...... And people may not like what I said, but I said it, and I don't back off one bit.

    Link

    And that bill has not been passed... Let me know when it is. That part has as much chance of surviving as a snowball in Hades.

    But hey, we know what Obama meant. I mean, I even told you.

    Now, I'll do some more commenting in the AM so you can follow me around some more. But I have a busy day planned so be prepared to get up early.

    Parent

    You parse well... (2.00 / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 11, 2009 at 09:56:56 AM EST
    and you pick conflicts regarding things that aren't in the comments I make. That shows your obsessive compulsive behavior quite clearly. And I am not even a rock star.

    ;-)

    Again, my comment was simply that if the Left whines over a dummy Repub calling Obama a liar then what will they do when the real challenge comes?

    As for Surrender Reid, I gave you facts. Now I will show you a video of the Democrats booing Bush during hos 2005 State of the Union speech.

    Link

    But back then speaking truth to power was the in thing.

    As for the illegal alien, I also give you this.

    While the report found that federal subsidies to obtain health coverage would be restricted to U.S. citizens and legal residents, it also noted that the bill does not specify a citizenship verification system, something that critics say creates a loophole for undocumented immigrants to receive subsidies anyway.

    Link

    Early last month, the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee defeated an amendment which would have excluded illegal aliens from Obama's totalitarian health care bill. The Democrat-dominated committee voted 23-18 to defeat the measure introduced by Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV), which would have required the use of the existing Income and Eligibility Verification System and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements System before care is dispensed

    Link

    So you see, Wilson was right. There will be no way to exclude them. That means they will be included no matter what Obama tells you.

    You can call his statement what you want. Wilson called it a lie. I think he should have, like Reid, refused to back down.

    Parent

    No wasted time (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by brianj52 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:34:35 AM EST
    I have to admit, I thought tonight's speech was the biggest FU ever given to the American Left by a democratic president, but it made me mad enough to say let's keep going and let's fight. You need to keep blogging about the approach to crime, detention, power being given to prosecutors, and all the things you have blogged about.

    And the fight over health care is not finished. I am one who believes that if there is no public option, there should be no bill. The President said tonight he wants to be the last president to stand before a joint session of congress to argue about health care. I promise, if the plan he outlined is passed, we will be right back here soon enough.

    As you folks have documented over and over again, Obama is not the great progressive hope his supporters have said he is. And if those of us who stand on the left want to see this country return to its promise, then we must now fight harder than ever.

    No, you haven't wasted time, and keep up the good work.

    Good faith debate is never a waste of time... (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:54:32 AM EST
    Whether we're engaging in a cage fight, or preaching to the choir, all of it serves to hone the terms of the debate and it incites us to go on. So, credit where credit is due: TL contributes to a critical mass of on-line discourse that is incessantly chipping away at the hegemony of mainstream narratives.

    As for health care, the public is way out ahead of most "progressive" blogs. The public knows full well what needs to be done - just as well as they/we know that the public will is being betrayed. Unfortunately, the whole rotten system may have to fail even more catastrophically before public rage can overwhelm the greed of the health lobby and their political minions.

    Let's keep talking and be a part of the action.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:51:42 AM EST
    Even when we disagree on various issues, we all learn something from and about one another. And that's what the concept of community - online and otherwise - is supposed to be about.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 05:12:08 AM EST
    with the spirit of what you have said.
    But ultimately we have to realize that we have to find a way to put pressure on Obama. He is not our friend. That may sound harsh, but I can only judge him on his actions. Otherwise, we are tilting at windmills.

    And while we're spinning about Skippy and Crowley and beer, and analyzing the healthcare bill that isn't, Obama is going right ahead bombing civilians in Afghanistan.

    Parent

    +1000 (none / 0) (#22)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:17:47 AM EST
    And there's so little good faith debate around.

    Parent
    Biden weighs in. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 05:05:47 AM EST
    I don't know how long it will be there on Huffpo, but they have a picture on their front page of Obama delivering his spiel while Biden is blissfully copping a few Zzzzzs.

    Now that's time well spent.

    Obama oozes and Biden snoozes

    It wasn't wasted time (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by mexboy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 05:32:32 AM EST
    if people become aware of what's happening...like pharma/insurance companies back room deals with Obama.
    it's an awakening...I hope.

    Wasted Time (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:35:43 AM EST
    Standing up for a principle is never a waste of time. Quality HCR was at the forefront of the Democratic agenda. This was to be the legacy we left for the future.

    One of the things I respect the most on this site is that both you and BTD (and most of the bloggers) focus on the issues, not the person.

    The real waste of time comes from the self proclaimed progressive's that sold out their principles. I have very little respect for people that try to excuse the inexcusable.

    Time will not have been wasted (4.25 / 4) (#13)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 04:44:23 AM EST
    if we finally come to terms with the fact of who Obama actually is.
    He is not interested in fighting the giant corporations who run everything. He took gobs of money from them.

    We can't sit around appealing to what we assume are his core beliefs. We don't and can't know what his core beliefs are - if in fact he has any. The Obama that campaigned for Lieberman when progressives were trying to unseat him, that campaigned with Donnie McClurkin, that had that fool Warren at his inaugural - that's Obama. We have to fight that Obama just as we had to fight Bush. But we first have to acknowledge who is actually is. Then it will not have been wasted time.

    Andy Card to run for Kennedy's Senate seat (none / 0) (#3)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:15:14 AM EST
    Ugh. I'll give money to his Democratic opponent, whoever it is.

    I know he is originally from MA (the accent is hard to miss) but he doesn't actually live there anymore. I don't understand how someone who lives in one state is allowed to run for office in another state. We Washingtonians would never put up with that nonsense.

    Card and his wife, an ordained Methodist minister, live in Virginia. The couple also owns a house in Holbrook, Mass., and Card said he maintains deep ties to the state.

    Deep ties? Like what? Does he have investments there? Pen pals? Maybe he's got ties to the "connected" guy who owns the dog track. I'm never comfortable with carpetbaggers. Will MA residents rise up in opposition?  

    Hey! Like Andy Card said in 2002: (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:28:39 AM EST
    "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August."

    And from a political point of view, the guy's Senate candidacy is the equivalent of reintroducing the Chrysler DeSoto and Ford Edsel.

    Parent

    "Little Andy Edsel" (none / 0) (#10)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:00:14 AM EST
    It has a certain ring to it...

    Parent
    George Bush's Chief of Staff? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 06:21:49 AM EST
    I hope he only wastes his own money.

    Parent
    Andy Card? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by cal1942 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:25:12 AM EST
    In Massachusetts?  Edward Kennnedy's old seat?

    LOL

    Parent

    Uh can you spell (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:16:06 AM EST
    Hillary and New York? Robert Kennedy and New York?

    And then there's the Congressman with a home in MD who "lives" over his mother in law's garage in Florida. (I think he's a Demo but I am not sure.)

    I mean this isn't a new thing by either side.

    Parent

    I never said it was a "new thing" (5.00 / 0) (#39)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:30:10 AM EST
    I said I don't like carpetbagging -- and I don't, regardless of party affiliation.

    Reading comprehension.

    Parent

    Nope (2.00 / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 04:06:12 PM EST
    I understood what you wrote.

    Evidently you didn't mean what you wrote.

    Composition problem.

    But I am glad we agree.

    Parent

    I meant exactly what I wrote (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 05:51:21 PM EST
    You're good at missing the obvious.

    Parent
    And you are good at parsing. (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:03:01 PM EST
    Everybody has to be good a something.

    Parent
    irrelevant (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:53:14 AM EST
    read my lips (or type but lips just sounds better)

    A republican will not win Ted Kennedy's seat

    No chance.  Who cares where he lives.

    Parent

    Army Archerd (none / 0) (#11)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:10:36 AM EST
    has died. Man, this takes me back. He was such a fixture in Hollywood for so long.

    I am so happy (none / 0) (#14)
    by weltec2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 04:51:08 AM EST
    that in spite of the financial hole that you people in the US find yourselves in, that at least the farming industry is doing so well.

    Now that is... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:02:31 AM EST
    down home of the earth economic stimulus I can believe in...if only John Law would leave the growers alone and let them earn a living.

    "Sure does cost well whole a lot of money
    to live in the land of the free
    so I think I'll go and plant a seed
    grow a marijuana money tree"

    - Ryan Bingham "Dollar a Day"



    Parent
    waste (none / 0) (#20)
    by joze46 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 06:27:37 AM EST
    Trying to keep a loved one alive is not a waste of time. Everyone is going through a serious learning session, and understands how foul our Health Care system is. The MSNBC Republican cable news channel is in its continued rant to confusion.    

    So's the entire media (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:28:15 AM EST
    It isn't just the Republican media that sucks on health care coverage. It's all of them. Do check the Howler.

    Parent
    This AM on Today (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by cal1942 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 07:40:52 AM EST
    Matt Lauer used McCain as fact checker on Obama's speech.

    Parent
    HAHAHAHAH! (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:44:46 AM EST
    As if McCain even had a clue about health care policy.  Good grief.

    Parent
    Todd Willingham's attorney weighs in on Innocence (none / 0) (#28)
    by Rojas on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 08:03:04 AM EST
    Project.
    "The Innocence Project is an absolute farce," Martin said. "It's a bunch of hype, in my opinion." link

    speech and malpractice (none / 0) (#29)
    by jcarl568 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 08:04:50 AM EST
    obama sold us out last night by endorsing tort reform.the repugs squealed like school girls at a beatles concert when he said it.i handled the tort reform challenge in illinois.we should have seen it coming.first bill bradley and then howard dean advocated throwing victims of malpractice under the bus.jon carlson

    But tort reform can also ... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:05:15 AM EST
    ... be achieved through the reform of medical malpractice liability insurance, can it not?

    We have a documented shortage of primary care doctors in this country. Anecdotally, I've known a not-insignificant number of physicians who've felt compelled to close up shop and pursue other ventures - not because of actual lawsuits or the threat thereof, but because of ever-escalating insurance premiums that sucked dry the equity in their practices, which left them spinning their wheels financially and wondering why they were in the business.

    It's a serious issue that both needs and deserves to be discussed honestly and rationally, sans all the political hyperbole about who's to be thrown under what bus by whom.

    Parent

    Not a waste at all (none / 0) (#30)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 08:42:02 AM EST
    I'm grateful for the mini soap box you and BTD provided from which I tried to do my part to help dispel myths about how healthcare actually works in this country and hopefully encourage fact-based debate.  

    In answer to the second question, no reason why you can't do both.

    Late Night: Wasted Time | 45 comments (45 topical)

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