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Tuesday Afternoon/Evening Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:17:02 PM EST
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Update: (TL): I had a good day in court but am now headed out to dinner. Best part of the day: My motions hearing today was in a federal multi-defendant case. And guess who turned up to argue on behalf of a co-defendant? The TL Kid. He was great. Coolest feeling ever to argue in court next to your kid. And we all won our motions.

*****

By BTD

I've had a lousy day. Hopefully my night will be better. This song always made me feel better:

This is an Open Thread. One additional thought -- Kevin Drum quotes Yglesias saying you can't understand America without reading Moby Dick. Drum disagrees and I am agnostic on that. But I do believe you can not fully understand this country until you have visited Las Vegas. Reading Robert Venturi's book Learning From Las Vegas will help too.

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    Tuesday Afternoon/Evening Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical)

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    Sorry about the bad day BTD (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:29:29 PM EST
    On my radar today is Whitney Houston's comeback album. I really really want it to be good, but listening to the title track on Youtube, I can't help but agree with a 2-star Amazon review:

    i literally had to swallow in complete disbelief (shock even) several times throughout the whole album that this feeble, hoarse and somewhat braced voice is really that of world famous Whitney Houston... even Tina Turner, being so much older, still has more power, range, life and beauty in her voice, and is recognizable, which cannot be said of Whitney. To me, this album could well be titled The Ghost of W.H.... I cannot understand why they even encouraged her to record new material if her voice is like that.

    I'll probably eventually pay for a few tracks, but I have a feeling that the Whitney voice of 20 years ago, let alone 11, is never coming back. And that's sad.

    I get so emotional baby (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:35:26 PM EST
    She's gone.

    I blame Bobby Brown . . .

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:37:30 PM EST
    I refrained from song title poetry, but I think you've pretty much got it right.

    Parent
    Buffy has been getting a few movie roles (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:40:27 PM EST
    You've send out the thugs to rough Freddie up have you?

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:42:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Her performance was pretty bad (none / 0) (#76)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:48:40 AM EST
    The backup singers sang the first song, and she just chimed in now and then. For the most part, she kept her microphone an arm's length away from her mouth while she danced and pretended she wanted the audience to sing along.

    I don't only blame Bobby Brown. Anyone who was near the situation, had the opportunity to help and didn't take it, and her poor choice to hook up with him in the first place. It seemed she resisted the influence for the early years with him.

    She could easily find work in the music industry that doesn't require her to perform. Maybe young singers can learn something from her mistakes.
     

    Parent

    Whitney giving exclusive concert (none / 0) (#8)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:45:34 PM EST
    tomorrow a.m. on ABC (New York=Channel 7)

    starting 7a.m.

    Sorry, but Whitney stuck with Bobby for a long time, so can't just blame him for her choices.

    Parent

    Good Morning America (none / 0) (#11)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:50:29 PM EST
    summer concert series, right?

    Parent
    Isn't "summer concert series" (none / 0) (#56)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 10:30:23 PM EST
    an NBC/Today show designation?

    Parent
    Both network morning shows (none / 0) (#61)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:21:54 PM EST
    do the summer concerts....I have no idea who calls what what. One would have to pay far closer attention than I do to those shows.


    Parent
    20 years ago?! Weren't you in pre-school (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:47:44 PM EST
    or something then? ;-)

    I'm a Jersey boy, I grew up with her.

    I miss her.

    Parent

    Just about (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:19:59 PM EST
    But hey, pre-schoolers listen to the radio!

    Parent
    I believe the children are our future (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:12:56 PM EST
    it's the greatest love of all...

    Parent
    If I fail, if I succeed (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:50:46 PM EST
    At least I'll live as I believe

    Parent
    See? wish I had listened to whitney in pre-school (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:55:16 PM EST
    instead of my mom's dang Camelot soundtrack! I'd have some self-esteem!

    Parent
    That... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:51:59 PM EST
    Randy Watson was really something else.  Jackson Heights own!

    Parent
    Ouch (none / 0) (#53)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:56:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Sorry to hear that (none / 0) (#34)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:36:07 PM EST
    I was looking forward to it too.

    Parent
    David Frum (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:41:04 PM EST
    mourns the death of conservatism:

    NewMajority.com has already undergone a redesign since it went online. The site has gotten about 800,000 unique visitors. By comparison, the conservative site Townhall.com receives 2 million unique visitors per month.

    "I would like more, obviously," Frum demurs.

    "If you go to a consultant," he continues, "the reason they will tell you that my project faces some daunting challenges is that the people who want to read most about politics are those with the most extreme views."

    really?
    we had not noticed that

    centrists (none / 0) (#37)
    by The Last Whimzy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:04:20 PM EST
    have day jobs.


    Parent
    Successful (none / 0) (#62)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 12:11:16 AM EST
    unburdened by privilege?  I'm thinking...

    Parent
    live long (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:46:24 PM EST
    and perspire

    Weren't the red shirt guys.... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:52:55 PM EST
    the ones who always got killed?

    Parent
    ha (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:55:32 PM EST
    in the classic one yes.  the new one no.

    I just flashed on Galaxie Quest.  WHATS MY LAST NAME???  I DONT HAVE A LAST NAME!!!  YOU KNOW WHY???

    Parent

    Red Shirt Cologne... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:03:51 PM EST
    "Because tomorrow may never come."

    Parent
    wow (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:53:56 PM EST
    I get the point but this is tastless

    The WWF says it never approved this ad and is condemning it. See the updates below.] Just in time for the anniversary of 9/11 comes this tasteless, nightmarish print ad for the World Wildlife Fund, showing dozens of planes headed for lower Manhattan.

    Someone doesn't like the WWF I'd guess (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:03:36 PM EST
    I zoomed in the words...The planet is brutally  powerful?  It just doesn't sound like something WWF would say.  And what does the Tsunami have to do with preserving the planet.  Did we not respect the planet so it Tsunamied us?  Sounds goofy

    Parent
    the story (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:04:43 PM EST
    is here

    Parent
    Ah.... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:24:37 PM EST
    It's an effective visual - for a 2010 GOP attack ad.

    For WWF?  Absolutely not.

    Parent

    I will never understand this country, (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by steviez314 on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:01:19 PM EST
    or at least 46% of it or so.

    Feel the same way (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Spamlet on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:38:07 PM EST
    about Dickens, who got paid by the word. What's Melville's excuse?

    to understand this country... (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:46:53 PM EST
    ...you must visit all the countries within it.  there are fifty states, many more regions within those states.  there is no ONE place to go to understand anything.  there is EVERYplace to go, which makes this, quite possibly, the most psychologically unwieldy country on earth.

    it ain't vegas, it ain't new york, it ain't l.a., it ain't miami, it is all of those places and tens of thousands more.

    anyone looking for simple phrases to sum up this nation will always fail miserably.

    Makes me think of a slogan (none / 0) (#29)
    by Cream City on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 06:02:00 PM EST
    suggested by a friend, an Easterner who migrated here to the Midwest decades ago and still is not quite sure he has figured out my city in which the differences can be striking from block to block, a city of many neighborhoods in which the locals take such pride that they have their own newsletters, logos, flags, websites, etc..  But he came up with the reason, which is summed up in his slogan for my city -- a slogan for which you can fill in the blank with any region, many a town, and this country:

    You can live in any decade you want to in ___!

    Parent

    For sheer irony (none / 0) (#30)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 06:08:37 PM EST
    In Columbus, Victorian Village (named for the architecture) is one of our several gay havens.  

    A little piece of history is found in German Village, which did NOT go by that name during WW2.

    Parent

    I lived in Victorian Village for 26 years... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by sallywally on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:03:22 PM EST
    16 of them in a little 1875-built cottage more like German Village brick cottages. Sold it to buy a house with my sister five years ago and now live just south and west of Henderson and Olentangy RR. I loved it there - even put a brand new slate roof on my house in the late 90s.

    Parent
    That's kind of odd (none / 0) (#32)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 06:26:45 PM EST
    because Eastern cities are exactly like that.  Maybe it's just that you guys organize them differently or something!

    Parent
    It is huge and a sum of its parts (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:57:36 PM EST
    I'm with ya that true understanding is impossible.  Better men and women than us have taken great pains to try to get at what makes this joint tick...to understand this country you'd have to walk a mile in every residents shoes.

    Though a good place to start is to spend some time in the nation's prisons, or at least get arrested and get chained and caged by it.  Then the mental hospitals, the nursing homes...then the mall and work your way around from there, don't forget the military bases in 90-odd countries.

    Parent

    I'll see your Moby Dick (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Cream City on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:57:45 PM EST
    and raise you with Silas Marner.  The staple of freshman year of high school in my day.  Ugh.

    Okay, I'll bite (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Coral on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:59:43 PM EST
    Moby Dick is one of the two or three greatest American novels (along with Grapes of Wrath, IMHO). However, I think you can understand America w/o reading it. You cannot understand the history of American literature, though, without reading that novel.

    I read it in high school and wasn't particularly impressed. However, I read it in my 40s and was able to appreciate its magnificence, its mystery, and its depth.

    Same with Dickens. He is wasted on the young.

    But that's what I love about Grapes of Wrath (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:00:46 AM EST
    Long description, then action, then description, action, etc.

    Personally, when it comes to literary America, I believe Gatsby is as timely as ever.

    Parent

    I guess I'm weird (none / 0) (#31)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 06:24:59 PM EST
    I read Moby in 6th grade and loved it.  Obviously, I didn't get the philosophy, but I remember liking the chapter about the whiteness of the whale a lot.  I also gobbled up most of Dickens around then, too.  Never understood why people had a problem with him.  I read a lot of the "classic" novels in those years, I guess probably because there wasn't much "young adult" fiction or even respectable trade paperback stuff wayyyyy back then. <she said from her rocking chair...>

    Parent
    Most great literature is wasted on the young (none / 0) (#75)
    by Raskolnikov on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 11:19:09 AM EST
    For the vast majority of people, anyway.  I have, and always have been, an avid reader, but its just not possible at that age to completely appreciate those novels.  If your only experience is a traumatic pre-collegiate one, I would recommend revisiting the books you disliked the most (or understood the least).  Its akin to showing a 12 year old Arrested Development: they might find it funny, but the layered, tight, reflexive social commentary would be utterly lost on them.

    Parent
    Rachel Maddow v. Tom Ridge (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 12:32:27 AM EST
    That's going to leave a mark.

    Garrison Keillor on the Public Option (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by daring grace on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:55:17 AM EST
    At Salon

    If you put a pet option in the healthcare reform scheme, Republicans would be in a bind. It's one thing to oppose big government taking over from those little mom-and-pop insurance companies, but do you favor throwing Mr. Mittens out the car window when he gets old and feeble and needs an IV because he can't chew his kibble? You'd have weepy pet parents at town hall meetings waving photographs of kittycats in need of new kidneys, and finally you'd start to see some empathy. People love their animals, and if we could just agree that everybody in America should receive the same level of care enjoyed by an elderly golden retriever, we could be done with this and get ready for the World Series.

    Interesting he chose to call the dog that might get thrown out the car window "Mr Mittens". Brings up some uncomfortable memories of Romney's campaign and the story of Seamus the Irish setter traveling on the roof of the family station wagon.

    Agree with Vegas comment. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Faust on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:42:08 PM EST
    .

    I'm not sure I want (none / 0) (#20)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:14:04 PM EST
    to agree with that.

    Las Vegas is a mirage in the desert, a flashy, ephemeral piece of kitsch - which is fine, even kitsch has a place in the world.  It's limited by climate and economy - a destination, a getaway with no other reason d'etre.   A luxury and if the country can no longer afford luxuries, Las Vegas will pay the price.  

    Parent

    It displays a lot... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:17:02 PM EST
    of our qualities though in an exaggerated way...hustle, angles, action, greed, excess, addiction, winners and losers, dreams come true and more dreams smashed to pieces...everybody is a mark, who's gonna beat the odds?

    What a wonderful place...:)

     

    Parent

    That is EXACTLY why I agree with the Vegas comment (none / 0) (#80)
    by Faust on Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 11:43:30 AM EST
    You just described America: a flashy ephemeral piece of kitch, driven by a consumer culture that is obsessed with luxuries. No more consumer culture? No more America as we know it. Our economy is something like 70% consumer spending. Look at our media culture: we are an amusement park culture. Anti-intellectual, selfish, children manipulated by an even more selfish anti-intellectual plutocrats.

    Disturbing but true.

    Parent

    Has anyone else been receiving Repub mail? (none / 0) (#12)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:52:34 PM EST
    Just this past week, I've gotten extensive materials from Boehner (sp?), DeMint & another Congressional Repub. The materials are extensive, & either anti-admin torture or healthcare policy.

    Why do they think I'm an appropriate target.  I barely read enough to know the topics of the rant, and may in fact have missed some.  

    You have to read them! (none / 0) (#21)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:19:56 PM EST
    It's fun to pick out the bogey men.  About now, I'd think that climate change, energy conservation and renewable energy are going to be recurring themes.  (Government wants to be able to tell YOU what car YOU can drive, what appliances YOU can use!  Fight back against Big Government by donating to....)

    You also should see which names they name - Obama, Reid, Pelosi of course.  Possibly Clinton, because of her name.  

    I think I may have offended some with my "Be afwaid, be vewwy afwaid!" but that's what a lot of those GOP tracts say.  The Dems do it too, of course.  "If we don't raise taxes - we'll have to cut police and fire fighting jobs!"

    Parent

    Some of the best NRA calls (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:12:03 PM EST
    featured Hillary Clinton. They were laugh out loud funny to someone like me because they really seemed to believe that she was the equivalent of the boogeyman.

    I was kinda sad when my husband gave the NRA what for over supporting a local GOP individual(who had some pretty sturdy gun control opinions) over the Democratic alternative(who actually was very pro gun owner). I lost my comedy relief.

    Parent

    Whole trees are being (none / 0) (#77)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 12:35:23 PM EST
    cut down to send out this material that lands in my circular bin rather quickly.  Why send this stuff to NY Dems?  Trying to whip up the "left-wing" protest crowd?

    Parent
    Looking for Independents (none / 0) (#78)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 01:18:48 PM EST
    to peel off?

    Parent
    what else? (none / 0) (#79)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:16:26 PM EST


    Parent
    to understand USA? (none / 0) (#25)
    by womanwarrior on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:42:18 PM EST
    I think it would be more accurate to say go to disney world.  All the fantasy, consumerism, main street, happy, happy happy, we are the best, that you could ever want.  And history liberally distorted.  Nobody reads books like Moby Dick any more, do they?  

    I personally don't understand the USA and I have been a citizen all my life. Ah, the lunatic fringe.

    ... and Vegas is Disney World for adults (none / 0) (#50)
    by cymro on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:33:20 PM EST


    Parent
    Hyperreality and simulacra... (none / 0) (#68)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 08:03:27 AM EST
    all it takes to understand the good ol' USA...

    Actually these do offer a lot of explanation for the attitudes, beliefs and behaviors of the country. But Moby Dick? I don't quite get it... Sinclair's "The Jungle," yes. I'd see that one as essential. Even "The Scarlet Letter," even "The Wizard of Oz" more than Moby Dick.

    Winesburg Ohio... Geez, the list goes on...

    Parent

    Apple geek night at my house (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:41:16 PM EST
    Just installed Snow Leopard on the laptop. I think Safari started up a little faster, but I might have been imaging it....I'll drink another glass of apple kool-aid before updating the Mini.

    You're late! ;-) (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:11:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Ha! I know - was visiting family (none / 0) (#41)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:16:55 PM EST
    over the weekend in a mac free zone. You know half of what they talked about? All the problems they were having with their various PCs. I did a lot of smug smiling - I'm pretty good at that, in case you couldn't tell.

    I did show my dad how to use the 'change case' function in Word. I'm a hero now. I guess he typically fat-fingers the 'A' key and turns on the caps lock.

    Parent

    Apple geek night here also (none / 0) (#43)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:19:28 PM EST
    only we're talkin' crab apples! {grin}

    Let us know how you like SL! I've had Leopard sitting next to my computer for quite some time. Gonna upgrade and go for SL also. It's been nice not being a Mac geek for the past couple years, but I do need to get back on track, lol!~

    Parent

    So far my favorite thing (none / 0) (#44)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:29:55 PM EST
    is the new  Edward Hopper's 'Nighthawks at the Diner' wallpaper. Looks very pretty on my laptop.

    I wish so much that I could use my MacBook at work. I used to with my old job, but this place wants contractors to use their computers for security reasons. Can't put my own on their network. I would learn a lot more of the Leopard features if I got to use it all day long.  Not to mention I just don't like using a PC and Windows,

    Parent

    i think the performance improvements (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 10:06:18 PM EST
    are real. Apps open noticeably faster. Smooth upgrade - I've tried al the applicaitons I regularly use, and no problems so far.

    and geek night comes to a close.

    Parent

    If you really want a geeky review (none / 0) (#55)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 10:09:26 PM EST
    of what changed, only John Siracusa can fully explain!

    And yes, Safari is a little faster. The 64 bit binary helps--if you can use it.

    Parent

    But does Yglesias say (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:04:54 PM EST
    that you can understand America if you do read Moby Dick?  If so I'll give it another try.  If it is just necessary but not sufficient I'll muddle through another way.

    Face with a pound of strawberries (none / 0) (#47)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:13:05 PM EST
    turning to mush, I decided to make a jam on a lark this evening. I had no pectin and limes instead of lemons.

    We'll see if it sets tomorrow. . .

    In the future . . . (none / 0) (#57)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:06:01 PM EST
    add an apple of you don't have pectin :)

    I don't generally do jam. I can as a sauce or lumpy something. I like being able to decide down the road what to do with it. Jam limits me ;) If you end up with a non-jam, still good with yogurt, on pancakes/waffles, ice cream . . . you get the picture ;)

    Parent

    I was thinking of adding an apple (none / 0) (#59)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:12:40 PM EST
    But I didn't want to go to the trouble of grating one and wringing it out (a la America's Test Kitchen's blueberry pie).

    Parent
    And it seems to be firming up pretty well (none / 0) (#60)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:13:37 PM EST
    but it's a little too sour (too much lime juice IMO). I'll probably be putting it in my Fage.

    Parent
    For Jeralyn (none / 0) (#65)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 01:56:54 AM EST
    per the discussion last evening -- en Francaise!-- about Comcast.

    Comcast is Raising its Rates (Again) in Washington State.

    Afghanistan - what it means. (none / 0) (#70)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:02:43 AM EST
    More combat troops - or troops available for combat.
    We will be using "contractors" who are despised by everyone.

    Bush is more than an individual.
    He simply expressed a kind of fascist mentality that depended on fear for its' survival.
    Bush is no longer the front man for this feeling of repression.

    When I read about this war - a war with no discussion with the public - I feel as if our new front man is Obama.

    Wish you'd chosen (none / 0) (#72)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 09:40:16 AM EST
    "Ooh Las Vegas" the Cowboy Junkies' cover of Gram Parson's song.  Though I guess I can't say anything, I don't see it on the web anywhere!

    And Jeralyn, that does sound awesome.

    number 2? (none / 0) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:28:30 AM EST
    Justice Stevens slows his hiring at high court

    By MARK SHERMAN (AP) - 8 hours ago

    WASHINGTON -- Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens has hired fewer law clerks than usual, generating speculation that the leader of the court's liberals will retire next year.

    If only (none / 0) (#74)
    by CST on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 10:32:07 AM EST
    That were Scalia....

    A girl can wish.

    Parent

    Tuesday Afternoon/Evening Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical)

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