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Springtime For Hitler: Part 2

"Adolf Hitler issued six million end of life orders--he called his program the final solution. I kind of wonder what we're going to call ours." - Right wing opponent of health care reform

Via Brian Beutler:

Speaking for me only

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    The quoted language (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:39:39 PM EST
    comes at 2:10.


    am I just being girlie (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:40:55 PM EST
    or is this beginning to get a little scary?


    Remember Ruby Ridge? (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:42:02 PM EST
    These people are perpetual martyrs.

    Parent
    after the tussle (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:43:50 PM EST
    with the union guys last night I expect them to bring cattle prods to the next one

    Parent
    I'm not sure I can go Ruby Ridge (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:45:08 PM EST
    with the folks showing up at these public forums.  You know that the women folk at Ruby Ridge had to menstruate in a different building from the men folk right?  

    Parent
    jeebus (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:50:45 PM EST
    is that true?

    Parent
    Yes, it is (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:54:18 PM EST
    I like Gerry Spence a lot so I followed the goings on closely.

    Parent
    All the more reason to blow their brains out (none / 0) (#64)
    by Rojas on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:00:12 PM EST
    Right?

    Parent
    Absolutely not (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:02:24 PM EST
    Another reason why I love Gerry Spence.  A lot of damage to human beings was done that day.

    Parent
    girlie? (none / 0) (#6)
    by CST on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:44:41 PM EST
    fear is a very manly emotion - these people have always been scary.  Less so now that they aren't in power, but more open too.

    Parent
    If knuckleheads and stupidity... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:02:45 PM EST
    scare ya, ya better not leave the house my man:)

    As long as they don't have badges and a set of chains there are too many other things to worry about...let 'em keep talkin' the crazy, and hope there are more relatively sane people than loons around, and that the relatively sane are paying attention.

    Parent

    Ridicule is often the best antidote (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:10:06 PM EST
    for conservative nonsense.

    Conservatives cannot stand being social outcasts.  If Letterman, Leno, SNL and Conan make fun of them, they will find their numbers dwindle quite fast.

    This is why conservatives are so perpetually mad at Hollywood--they cannot be made to be outside the norm.  

    Liberals, though, often love being outsiders....Not conservatives...they have too much of an impulse to conform....

    Parent

    I had never thought of them that way (none / 0) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:51:01 PM EST
    They do fear being social outcasts tremendously, they crave stability.  Risk takers and authority questioners like me....well...we are sometimes leaders if they feel safe enough around us but usually we are evil sluts who just can't understand that about ourselves :)

    Parent
    Ridicule will be an effective weapon (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:40:13 PM EST
    to help neutralize their political impact, but they may become more dangerous in the process.

    Parent
    it would be one thing (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:11:23 PM EST
    if responsible republicans were urging response.

    they are  not.  they want this.  not sure I agree with Robot.  I think it is to some extent working.


    Parent

    that would be (none / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:12:06 PM EST
    urging restraint

    Parent
    The majority of Americans ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:22:24 PM EST
    hate blatant extremism.

    They might buy it if it's hidden behind a honeyed voice and some clever soundbites, but unadorned they hate it.

    And crazy?  That's a complete nonstarter for most people.

    Calling the President a Nazi every day just isn't going work.  Because it's both extreme and crazy.  

    It makes them look like a fringe party.  And, if they keep doing it, it's going to turn them into one.

    Parent

    I really hope you are right (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:25:33 PM EST
    and it does seem logical.  but I am afraid that the things you describe will only work of about half the country.

    the other half thinks he is a Nazi.  or worse, a Muslim.


    Parent

    I think it's significantly less ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:35:47 PM EST
    than half that respond to this sort of stuff.

    Still a large group of people.  But not a voting majority by any stretch of the imagination.

    Parent

    Unfortunately, mid-term elections don't bring out (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by esmense on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:08:50 PM EST
    a genuine voting majority. Working women, young people, minorities, low income voters all tend to stay home -- leaving it to older, conservative voters like these to decide the elections. That is what happened in '94. And that is why these people really scare me.

    Considering how low Republican politicians are willing to go to enrage and court these people, it seems likely the candidates voters like these put into office will be worse than anything we've seen yet.

    Democrats are going to have to do everything they can to keep progressive voters energized (like passing real health reform) plus some unprecedented work to get out the vote among those constituencies that tend to drop out of voting in the mid-term.

    Parent

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#74)
    by CST on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:19:37 PM EST
    This is the most engaged i've seen the electorate (besides during a major election year) in my entire life (not that long).

    I feel like the economy and the possibility of real reform has kept people engaged.

    I could be way off, but that's what I'm seeing.

    Parent

    Well, yes, these folks are engaged (none / 0) (#92)
    by esmense on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:49:42 PM EST
    but how engaged are the groups that normally don't turn out for the mid-terms?

    Parent
    Much different here in Texas, Robot... (none / 0) (#71)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:14:25 PM EST
    Our prez is not well liked, based on my observations. During dinner at one of my favorite restaurants last night, some diners at an adjacent table were speaking about him in terms that I would dare not repeat here -- all within easy earshot of other diners. They just didn't care if they offended anyone.

    I almost engaged, but my wife convinced me it would only further ruin the dinner. She then immediately ordered me a double Grey Goose on the rocks, which I swiftly slammed dunked, ergo causing my attention to drift elsewhere.

    Anyway, a few moments ago I overheard two coworkers talking about an Obama plot to off all conservative federal judges and replace with liberal judges. This is not some sort of whacked out fantasy of rednecks, by the way -- one is a retired brigadere general and the other is a retired colonel. They actually believe the stuff.

    The point being, its turning a bit weird in the flyover states.  

    Parent

    Are you sure (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:22:05 PM EST
    this is not some sort of whacked out fantasy of rednecks?  A retired brigadere general and a retired colonel gives me NO reason to suspect that they are part of a self chosen reality based community :)  My brother-in-law graduated from the Air Force Academy but Bill Clinton murdered people who got in his way.....Hillary held the flashlight for him.

    Parent
    Thank you, Tracy. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:25:50 PM EST
    You echo my thoughts. But I still feel guilty saying it. Its that respect thing, ya know?

    Parent
    still (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:28:52 PM EST
    doesnt explain the restaurant incident.  or the ones I have had or the completely over the top emails I keep getting in spite of telling people if they dont stop sending them to me I will block them.

    the pot is boiling.
     

    Parent

    however (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:29:36 PM EST
    I think I have found a solution for the wacked out emails.

    I am threatening to forward them to the Obama administration.


    Parent

    Dear leader would luv (2.00 / 0) (#134)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 05:39:21 AM EST
    you for that.  Hows that for whacked out, forwarding emails, like a stoolie.

    Parent
    At least one good thing came out of the (none / 0) (#85)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:35:45 PM EST
    restaurant incident: a "goose goose" on the rocks.

    Parent
    Restaurant incident... (none / 0) (#116)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:03:22 PM EST
    That same thing happened to me, but in the doctor's office last Tuesday, where I had to listen to two very old f@rts say the very same thing.

    Parent
    I think this is exactly right (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:21:10 PM EST
    the whole thing is starting to sort of congeal.

    they are feeding off each other and the right wing media.

    Parent

    it's what people who 'don't have time' (5.00 / 0) (#146)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 05:56:50 PM EST
    to think for themselves have always done...

    living in the heartland I hear Obama smears all the time...I hear it all from Hitler to socialism to the Antichrist...

    the responsibility in my area mainly belongs to the Churches, which have no problem espousing lies...I'm surprised sometimes at the things I hear at the Churches in my area (a lot of Obama is a Muslim hate)...
    but the type of people who go to church in the heartland are exactly the type of people who can easily be told what to think...

    Parent

    I hate to say it ... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:59:22 PM EST
    but the reaction of some extremists in Texas isn't indicative of a winning majority nationwide.

    Parent
    Do you expect me to believe this? (none / 0) (#103)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:26:18 PM EST
    Anyway, a few moments ago I overheard two coworkers talking about an Obama plot to off all conservative federal judges and replace with liberal judges. This is not some sort of whacked out fantasy of rednecks, by the way -- one is a retired brigadere general and the other is a retired colonel. They actually believe the stuff.

    I mean really.

    LOL

    Parent

    Civil war is down the pike. (none / 0) (#121)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:04:51 PM EST
    These people are mean, vicious and armed. It's time to return the sentiment.

    Parent
    You are big on (2.00 / 0) (#135)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 05:40:09 AM EST
    advocating violence.

    Parent
    No. (5.00 / 0) (#138)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 08:59:26 AM EST
    I'm big on defending myself. If you think these right wingnuts wouldn't pummel you (or worse) without a second thought, you are naive. The murder of George Tiller and the incident in DC shows that these people can be very dangerous. I believe it is foolish to wait for them to act. The best defense is offense. I know the Nazi comparisons are getting tired, but that's essentially what happened in Germany in the 30s. People sat back and watched while a bunch of crazy thugs slowly took over. And they did it with much violence.

    Parent
    This is defending yourself? (none / 0) (#145)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:48:28 PM EST
    The best thing would be if the union guys (1.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 11:26:39 AM EST
    take care of it with a few two by fours. Sometimes that what it takes for a jackass to listen.

    Here is the thread.

    Define defending yourself.  
    Sounds more like you want to use violence to get people to think like you.  Are you married?

    Parent

    I was being semi (none / 0) (#151)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 07:51:06 PM EST
    facetious. There's on old joke about hitting a jackass (as in donkey) in the head to get its attention. Sorry you didn't get it.

    Parent
    That's probably true. (none / 0) (#55)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:45:14 PM EST
    A guy on the radio this a.m. reminded of the 1964 Repub convention when liberal Nelson Rockerfeller spoke at the podium about the dangers of political extremism, and was roundly and loudly booed.  Cranky Barry Goldwater then spoke in his acceptance speech about how "extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" and got a sustained standing O.

    Earlier, Pres Ike had a line in his speech about the biased librul media not acting in the best interests of the Repub Pty, and the crowd stood up, turned to the media booths above them in the hall and began booing and shaking their fists.

    And voters in 64 proceeded to give the RW Rethugs and angry Barry a sustained thumbs down.

    Of course, that was 45 yrs and many political lifetimes ago.  And since the early 80s the angry hard right has made significant inroads in penetrating the MSM, especially on talk radio.  

    So I have to wonder whether a long period of constant propaganda bombardment by the right on the airwaves has dulled our senses about reacting to the extreme and dangerous fringe ..

    Parent

    A more recent reference (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:52:01 PM EST
    might be Pat Buchanan's "culture war" speech in 1992, which was generally not considered a winner in the court of public opinion, even though it assuredly provided plenty of starbursts for the base.

    Parent
    And all this isn't ... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:04:00 PM EST
    just extreme and crazy, it looks so desperate.

    This isn't the kind of message machine which made conservatism mainstream.

    I guess all the smart Republicans have taken their spoils and gone off to enjoy them somewhere.

    Parent

    but but (none / 0) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:06:15 PM EST
    Peggy Noonan says

    We have entered uncharted territory in the fight over national health care. There's a new tone in the debate, and it's ugly. At the moment the Democrats are looking like something they haven't looked like in years, and that is: desperate.


    Parent
    And she also says ... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:47:15 PM EST
    the health-care protesters have to make sure they don't get too hot, or get out of hand. They haven't so far ...

    I point Ms. Noonan to the video clip above.

    Parent

    And the threats ... (none / 0) (#115)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:00:31 PM EST
    below.

    Parent
    Yes, and this guy is still (none / 0) (#89)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:44:53 PM EST
    around for our viewing pleasure.

    Parent
    That speech was the beginning of the end of (none / 0) (#98)
    by esmense on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:06:02 PM EST
    the Republicans as a national party. I'll never forget my elderly Republican uncle, a native Californian and small businessman who was proud to be both "conservative" and a member of "the party of Lincoln" -- a party with a noble history on matters of race and civil rights -- telling me after that convention that he was "ashamed to be a Republican." I genuinely felt sorry for him -- he seemed so sad and disillusioned. It's decent people like him who have been slowly but surely abandoning the party over the last two decades -- leaving it to the Dixicrats and assorted baffoons.

    Parent
    I don't support euthanasia (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:44:02 PM EST
    but these people are starting to make a fairly compelling case for it.

    This per Politico (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:10:45 PM EST
    not my fave source but....

    The focus of their ire is a provision tucked deep inside the House bill that would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation once every five years. If a person falls ill with a life-threatening disease, more frequent sessions would be allowed.

    Republicans are now using this language as a wedge between senior citizens and Democrats.  Boehner and Republican Policy Committee Chairman Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) issued a statement last week saying it "may start us down a treacherous path toward government
    -encouraged euthanasia" -- even though the concept behind the provision has been embodied in federal law since 1990 and has been promoted by Republicans and Democrats for years.



    Parent
    God forbid (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:14:45 PM EST
    we should pay for people to know what their options are.

    When we start giving Medicare the option to insist that you accept a particular option, then let me know.

    Parent

    Yeah, and it is a covered benefit (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:23:32 PM EST
    if you want such a thing.  Nobody has to even entertain using it if they don't want to.

    Parent
    The stupid (none / 0) (#82)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:30:49 PM EST
    it buuurns.

    Parent
    "would provide" (none / 0) (#129)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:55:02 PM EST
    Means mandatory.

    Us Seniors do not need a Federal Employee showing up asking questions and taking notes... and don't kid yourself... no bureaucracy has ever existed that didn't want to expand..

    Parent

    Does your insurance provide (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 08:01:38 PM EST
    coverage for Viagra? Prostrate exams? Yearly exams? Etc? Does it force them on you? Are they knocking on your door?! Or do they simply provide the service if you so choose to use it? They actually prefer you don't but continue to pay for the service . . .

    I really hope you find reality soon if you actually believe the Feds are going to send door knockers . . .

    Parent

    Since I am on Medicare (2.00 / 0) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 09:00:02 AM EST
    I can only speak of the past....

    But my insurance was not part of the Federal government and had no way to administer a prostrate examine if I didn't want one. ;-)

    People have seen what bureaucrats can do to private property rights and have developed a great fear of the government. What I find amusing in that is that it has been the Left who just spent 8 years screaming about national defense activities as invasion of privacy and loss of civil rights.

    Let me share with you what happens now if you have been say in the hospital for three weeks and come home. Now years ago you would have been kept in the hospital in rehab where you would have been taught to walk again, obtain muscle tone, etc. Now, if at all possible you are sent home and a "Home Health" care company provides therapy. (I have no problem with this, just noting.)

    The first interview is with a RN and a therapist. You will be asked more questions about more things than you ever thought possible. As part of it you will be asked if you have an "Advance Authorization" and, if not, urged to get one and if you had told them you had a computer you will be told you can find one on the web.

    "Advance Authorization" is just another name for "Living Will."

    Again, I have no particular problem with this since I don't mind telling a complete stranger in my kitchen when I had my last bowel movement or if my Mother had high blood pressure. Some people do.

    People are confused and scared.

    Instead of telling them what the feds CAN do and saying they CANNOT do anything else Obama's planS leave dozens of doors open.

    So when people ask questions and the Rep hums and haws people start yelling. Instead of understanding why they are angry the Democrats have decided to force the issue. That is stupid and plays directly into the hands of the opposition.

    Someone should tell Obama that this isn't Chicago.

    Parent

    so why do Republicans suddenly (5.00 / 0) (#147)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:04:21 PM EST
    care about Government being in our lives if they didn't 4-8 years ago?

    maybe politics is just each side constantly jumping to the other side of the fence and then trying to defend that side of the fence until the next time for jumping happens...as the Republicans are doing now...

    oh, but wait, I forgot the fear-mongering...it was about safety 4-8 years ago...and for that people are willing to allow government into their lives...lol...

    Parent

    That's right (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:44:07 PM EST
    "would provide coverage."  That means your claim can't be denied when you consult with your doctor about end-of-life issues; you're free to have that talk if you choose and your insurance will pay for it.

    Doesn't mean there is a mandatory meeting with a federal employee; in fact the "federal employee" is someone you just imagined out of thin air.

    You can read the bill if you like.  It's in section 1233.

    Parent

    You still don't get it (2.00 / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 09:01:49 AM EST
    Perception is everything.

    And since I want Obama's planS to be defeated so we can go for a SP plan, that works for me.

    Parent

    Honestly, that's exactly what they (none / 0) (#8)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:46:07 PM EST
    want people to start saying. Lots of provocateurs.

    Parent
    Somehow (none / 0) (#15)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:53:17 PM EST
    I doubt that my blog comment will bring them much satisfaction.  Perhaps they're hoping to be punched in the nose a la Fred Phelps.

    Parent
    Well sure, but then why do you care (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:55:16 PM EST
    about my response to your comment at all?! :D

    Good point about Phelps, though. If you see those people, cross the street. They're looking for a suit.

    Parent

    I wanted to reward you (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:00:54 PM EST
    for spelling provocateur correctly.

    Parent
    hah (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:03:45 PM EST
    Safari's built-in spellcheck helped with that.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#33)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:10:58 PM EST
    How do I get that?

    Parent
    Should be right there in the text box (none / 0) (#40)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:17:10 PM EST
    you get a red squiggly underline when a word you use isn't in the dictionary.

    Parent
    Cheater! (none / 0) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:00:16 PM EST
    I'm gonna get one and stop being so obviously illiterate around here.

    Parent
    You didn't need much of a nudge (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:27:15 PM EST
    did you....

    LOL

    Parent

    should someone tell him (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:46:20 PM EST
    the government doesnt run the post office any more?

    The USPS is something of a hybrid. It is granted certain privileges that no similar private firm gets and some aspects of its management are quasi-governmental (e.g. the Postmaster General is a political appointee).

    However, it is NOT (contrary to popular misconception) funded by taxpayer money. It pays for its operation from postage fees and sales of products.



    As Krugman says (none / 0) (#13)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:48:40 PM EST
    "don't tell Laffer, but 89 percent of Americans have a favorable view of the Post Office."

    Parent
    seriously (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:55:05 PM EST
    if health care delivery was as reliable as mail delivery - no problem.


    Parent
    Sure (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:00:14 PM EST
    and if the doctor would lick you when he's ready to send you away...

    Parent
    Shows you haven't stamps in a while (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:08:29 PM EST
    They come ready-backed with peel-to-expose adhesive now.

    But I'm tempted to give you a "1" for the doctor licking image.

    Parent

    Forever stamps: eternal life? (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:10:16 PM EST
    also, clearly (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:12:51 PM EST
    we have different doctors.

    Parent
    That's just nasty (none / 0) (#34)
    by vicndabx on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:11:16 PM EST
    considering what some doctors probably eat.  Bean sprouts, alfalfa, twigs & coffee - might lead to more unpleasant smells on the subway.

    Parent
    I recently sent something ... (none / 0) (#51)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:40:01 PM EST
    overnight via the Post Office.  It arrived the next day, but later in the day than they promised.

    They gave me a full refund.

    Try that with an insurance company some time.

    Parent

    Which is why I asked earlier: why (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:58:54 PM EST
    are USPS employees eligible for the insurance options offered by the federal government for its employees?

    Parent
    Postal workers are still... (none / 0) (#29)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:09:22 PM EST
    ...classified government employees.

    Lots of strange things in the laws--like the Feds handling railroad retirement benefits.  Or our Workers Comp carrier being a quasi-government entity.  

    Parent

    Or military (none / 0) (#93)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:52:14 PM EST
    supplied by Xe.

    Parent
    managed (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:47:17 PM EST
    to get Stalin and Pol Pot in too.  wow.


    Maybe better to have (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:49:32 PM EST
    them be jerks at Townhalls and feel empowered by shouting down members of Congress, than to have them go underground.

    Let 'em vent--instead of building bombs.

    Their thuggery needs to be exposed, though, so it can be seen for what it is.

    Aha (none / 0) (#21)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:59:38 PM EST
    You have successfully identified one of the messier virtues of this thing we call democracy!

    At the end of the day, the more over-the-top protestors simply help to defeat their own cause.  So I don't lose any sleep over them.  And I know people sweat it out, but as hated as Bush was, the closest anyone ever came to him was with a shoe.

    Parent

    Probably what Dr. Tiller thought too. (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:05:59 PM EST
    True, the other side of the coin (none / 0) (#38)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:12:35 PM EST
    But, what to do?

    Spotlight is the best disinfectant, I think...

    Parent

    Spotlight usually is, (none / 0) (#48)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:31:44 PM EST
    but the problem is that for the most part so far the MSM has been underplaying the RW mob action, from the teevee stories I've seen.  Somewhat better reporting yesterday compared to earlier, but still downplaying it.

    Is it time for Obama himself to step up and help shine a light on the matter?   It would seem the issue of mob action and violence has about "ripened" to the point where he needs to make some forceful statement about it.

    And it would be most unfortunate if he decided to avoid speaking out and then some tragedy should occur due to the RW crazies.

    As usual, he would have to choose his words carefully.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#41)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:18:43 PM EST
    a pro-lifer might sit here and tell you that Dr. Tiller's murder is the sort of thing that happens when you take a contentious issue like abortion OUT of the political process.

    I don't agree with that, of course, but I'm also not claiming that an open political process is the antidote to ALL violence.  The antidote to widespread rebellion, yes, hopefully.

    Parent

    The Right Wing ... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:04:22 PM EST
    is just handing the Dems the whole political landscape.

    Dems can shoot themselves in the foot every day and still win.

    Because the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot every hour on the hour.  And they double that on weekends.

    Over 50 & white (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:30:53 PM EST
    That seems to be the demographic of the crazies at these events....

    Is that what the base of the Republican Party looks like?

    Well, except for the 16-yr. old (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:36:24 PM EST
    Jealyn interviewed in Denver and the kid in the stroller holding a really obnoxious sign (see Huff Po).

    Parent
    Where I live? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:40:13 PM EST
    Yes

    Parent
    Pretty much, yes (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:32:52 PM EST
    Hey, wait a minute. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:18:05 PM EST
    I'm 50 and white.

    Parent
    ditto (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:22:13 PM EST
    or I was.  a few years ago.

    Parent
    I'm sorry... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:16:46 PM EST
    ...but the people that spout this Nazi crap should be put in a boxcar and sent to stay in Auschwitz barracks for a week.  

    Let them breath the air that still retains the stench of death and learn the real history of what went on there first hand.

     

    As if that would help... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:35:06 PM EST
    they would probably see the face of Obama in a stain on the wall like they see Jesus in a dog's arse...and feel vindicated.

    I gotta say though it does kinda look like J.C.:)

    Parent

    Well... (none / 0) (#88)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:43:25 PM EST
    ...I just read that this happened in my State (Pueblo), so now I'm doubly pissed.  

    Grrrrrr.

    Parent

    See. (none / 0) (#90)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:46:28 PM EST
    Just like I said in comment #71, things are getting weird in the flyover states.

    Parent
    OMG (none / 0) (#95)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:58:20 PM EST
    thats the funniest thing I ever saw.
    it just got forwarded to about 500 people.  I dont know.  I need to see it moving.  I suspect photoshop.  the beard the eyes the whole package.

    I cant Poo Poo this one.  he is there.


    Parent

    Well, I was taught (none / 0) (#109)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:42:13 PM EST
    that He is everywhere.

    I just never thought it through, it seems.  Nor did the priests and nuns who taught us.

    I SO hope some kid having to take catechism class sees this and, when next taught that He is everywhere, asks if he can bring up a website image for, y'know, Catechism Class Show and Tell.

    Parent

    better yet (none / 0) (#110)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:44:26 PM EST
    the dog

    Parent
    I am so frigging` (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by JamesTX on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:52:40 PM EST
    tired of being a second class citizen. When there was a real fascist trying to destroy our government (and to a great extent, he succeeded), I was admonished by liberals and laughed at by conservatives for making any comparison of King Bush and the Third Reich, although the parallels were alarming. Now, a Democratic administration is fighting for its life trying to support a democratic legislative initiative that has its roots in the grassroots, rather than corporate boardrooms, and he is "Hitler". My questions are:

    If Obama is Hitler and Bush is not, then why were all Bush's controversial decisions executive orders and secret manipulations, while Obama's work is being openly debated in the Legislative branch.

    If Obama is Hitler and Bush is not, then why are we actually having to fight for these principles and policies rather than simply demanding compliance from our opponents under threat of being "Roved"?

    I don't get it either. (none / 0) (#122)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:16:53 PM EST
    Invading other countries. Not Hitler like.
    Providing health care to all Americans. Hitler like.
    Incarcerating people without charge or trial for indefinite period. Not Hitler like.
    Closing down an internment camp. Hitler like.

    Bill Maher is right, Americans are really, really stupid.

    Parent

    Let's get real (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by NYShooter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:14:02 PM EST
    This is serious business. Ridicule and making fun of the Right isn't going to do it. Howdy said it's congealing; he's right. The visible ones out there may seem comical but they speak for a dark, ugly, and real strain within many, many more.
    The little corporal from Austria was laughed at too.

    This White House better draw the line right now; clear, deep, and unequivocal. That grinning fool, Gibbs, better wipe that smirk off his face.

    They don't pay Limbaugh $300,000,000 for nothing. The Right has the Corporations, the Media, much of Congress & the Courts, and lots and lots of undereducated, angry, motivated followers.

    My father escaped from Poland just before Germany invaded. In telling me his story he said the most frustrating thing was he couldn't get anyone to believe what he saw coming. What he saw in Hitler's speeches and the crowds' faces, was "the look." His friends and family laughed at him, mocked and ridiculed Hitler, but my father saw something different.

    The Right, after the crushing defeats brought on by eight years of Bush/Cheney, is where Germany was after WW-1; fertile ground for crazy talk. They sense the euphoria over Obama has waned, and they're going to make the most of it.

    Let's not let history repeat itself.

    Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeee (2.00 / 0) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 08:36:03 AM EST
    These people are merely exercising their freedom of speech. Or did you miss all the anti-war demonstrations a few years back?

    Parent
    Just do it! (none / 0) (#32)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:10:40 PM EST
    I hope that these demonstrations convince Obama that there are people that will never want bipartisanship. The hard right only knows one way of doing things, Their way. The only way to deal with them is to exclude them from the debate. (Bush never let the left's opposition get in the way of his agenda). Nothing Obama or the Democrat's do will ever be accepted by them.

    You would think Obama might have (none / 0) (#47)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:31:35 PM EST
    picked up on the fact that after the Congressional Republicans strong-arm Democrats to make their bills more bipartisan, they don't vote for them.  Oh, the pass, but they pass in the most watered-down and a$$-backwards way possible, but without Republican votes.

    If the GOP isn't going to vote for anything the Dems propose, we've wasted opportunity after opportunity to actually do things our way, and succeed.

    Well, except for those darn Blue Dogs...don't you think it's time to start calling them something else, like Whining Blue Gnats or Yippy-Yappy Blue Dogs or Pesky Blue Mosquitos or Democratic Ankle Biters?

    Parent

    Ankle Biters works for me :) (none / 0) (#53)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:40:25 PM EST
    Now we just need some Big Dawgs to bite back.

    Parent
    How about (none / 0) (#56)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:45:41 PM EST
    Born Again Republican's! Most are only running as Dem's because it's their only shot.

    Parent
    here in Missouri we have one of the worst... (none / 0) (#148)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:12:40 PM EST
    pretty much everything she says is from a Republican point-of-view...and yet she still thinks she's a democrat...

    it's pretty sad, even living in a Red state (why I do this, I don't know...sometimes it's hard to leave what you know)

    Parent

    Maybe I missed it but I dont (none / 0) (#37)
    by The Last Whimzy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:12:11 PM EST
    Remember this kind of vitriol the first time around in 1992.

    Was it there and just not uncovered cause there was no tubes back then?

    Has the right wing discovered a new tool they can use?  My understanding is that a lot of this is astroturfing, funded by insurance companies or agents acting on their behalf.

    Is this more than just preaching to a choir?

    After I stop laughing and the dismay sets in....

    it never had to come to this (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:22:06 PM EST
    in the 90s because it was smothered in its cradle.

    as far as the rest this is what I think, its part astroturf but not entirely.  it is also feeding off racial fear and hatred combined with fear of "Obamas agenda" which obviously includes the outlawing of traditional marriage and the conversion of Uhmerka to a muslim country.


    Parent

    I asked myself just now (none / 0) (#45)
    by The Last Whimzy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:30:10 PM EST
    Would my relatives in the south be going to health care protests if the president was white?

    I did not like the answer I came to.

    Parent

    I have a hard time even (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:39:48 PM EST
    entertaining these thoughts but I don't think John Edwards would have received the same KIND of astroturfing as Rush is giving Barack Obama.  I don't even understand where people are coming up with such paranoia over Obama being a dictator like Hitler except that he gets a different interpretation of what a dictator is compared to white presidents who are deciders.  There are certain fears that have lurked within the American group subconscious that I think are surfacing.  I think it's a good thing as well in the long run, but it isn't pleasant when the boils are being lanced....that's for sure.

    Parent
    Thing is (none / 0) (#62)
    by The Last Whimzy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:55:51 PM EST
    Most right wing conservatives I know are not the activist type.

    It takes more than an issue to get them to go anywhere.  They could be hunting and drinking beer but now they are going to poltical protests.

    Parent

    which, like you said, says a lot about (5.00 / 0) (#149)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:14:32 PM EST
    what they think of the color of the president more than the policies...

    Parent
    If only I hadn't clicked on "Springtime (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:50:33 PM EST
    for Hitler" clip yesterday.  Can't seem to shake that song.

    Catchy stuff (none / 0) (#63)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:56:02 PM EST
    No wonder the show is a hit ... all over the world!

    Parent
    Wonder if this production was eventually (none / 0) (#111)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:46:17 PM EST
    staged at Deutsche Opera Berlin?  Idomeneo

    Parent
    Darn that Mel Brooks. (none / 0) (#75)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:20:55 PM EST
    It is despiccable how far . . . (none / 0) (#97)
    by Doc Rock on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:02:05 PM EST
    . . .  these Right Wing whores of the insurance industry will go and how low are the depths to which they sink!

    They are helping to steal, through fear-mongering,  the money for their health care from some of the very seniors in need of this legislation most!!!

    Threatening Phone Call to the SEIU ... (none / 0) (#99)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:09:55 PM EST
    listen to it here.

    The basic message of the call: Stop the violence or we'll kill you.

    And without a hint of irony.

    wow (none / 0) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:14:35 PM EST
    like I said.  its congealing.

    Parent
    There's more ... (none / 0) (#102)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:23:56 PM EST
    here.

    Silly thing is the healthcare bill wasn't doing that well to begin with.  It might have gone down to defeat.

    But now I think people will want to support it just so they aren't connected to lunacy like this.

    Parent

    if they actually hurt someone (none / 0) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:31:45 PM EST
    the whole country will turn against them

    Parent
    on the other hand (none / 0) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:17:53 PM EST
    I dont think these are mostly guys who are going to be bullied or threatened.

    very bad things could happen.  and where would that put reform?

    I dont know.


    Parent

    Can any of you (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:34:40 PM EST
    refute his remarks re "end of life orders?"

    Uh (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:39:18 PM EST
    Are you asking if any of us are Holocaust deniers?

    Parent
    Well you know (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:58:59 PM EST
    he probably went to the wrong schools, doesn't drink hot tea, has never been invited to the "right" parties... But he has an audience and he's telling you what his, and others, fears are.

    Sneering at him, laughing at him, etc., may make you feel superior. It may make you feel good.

    But at the end of the day you have to live in his world just as much as he has to live in yours. And there are more of him than there is of you.

    So you might want to start thinking about how to communicate with him.

    Now. Can you refute his questions regarding the "end of life orders?" If not then he is going to be believed and you aren't.

    Parent

    You could have looked it up yourself ... (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:36:39 PM EST
    The section is on consultation regarding living wills and such.  

    It's a completely innocuous section about the information they are supposed to provide you during such consultations.

    The term "end of life order" isn't used that I could find.


    Parent

    What are you talking about? (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:55:46 PM EST
    As far as I can see, his remarks regarding end of life orders were: "Adolf Hitler issued six million end of life orders--he called his program the final solution."  In fact, that happens to be true.

    So what exactly are you asking me to refute?  If you want me to prove that the health care bill isn't going to send Jews to the ovens, I'd say, show me where in the bill you think it says that and I'll explain to you what it really says.

    Do YOU think that the health care bill is going to send Jews to the ovens?  You know better than that, right?  If you actually think so, tell me where in the bill you think it says that and I'll explain to you what it really says.  If you won't show me where, I can't prove a negative any more than I can prove that the bill won't outlaw Russia and start the bombing in five minutes.

    Something that's interesting is that you mention what his "fears" are, without getting into the issue of where he got those fears from.  Gee, do you think he just woke up one day and said hey, a health care reform bill, I bet they're going to have euthanasia in there?  Or do you think someone put that idea in his head, someone looking to take advantage of him for political gain?

    You make these cracks about me looking down on the guy because he went to the wrong schools, as if I'm some blueblood elitist as opposed to the son of a carpet cleaner.  But the people who hold guys like this in real contempt are not the liberal elitists, they're the liars and fearmongers who say hey, if we spread enough disinformation about Obama's bill, we can score a political win.  We just have to trick enough people into thinking that Obama wants to issue end of life orders and we're set.  You want to see the real scum of the earth, that's where to look.

    Parent

    It doesn't matter what I think (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 08:13:50 PM EST
    or what you think. If you can't refute what the guy says, and if he follows with a few quotes from Ezekiel Emanuel, who is Obama's main health care adviser and Rahm's brother ((the Chicago way!)then you have lost big time.

    And it doesn't matter where his fears come from. They are there and must be treated/answered. Failure to do so just gives the other side a new recruit.

    And don't take the comments personally or get to up tight or I may start to think they were on target..;-)

    My point was, is and will be that the Left, in general, have a huge ego and superiority complex that they don't deserve and should start trying to talk with the other side.

    You might find out that both of you are Americans.

    Parent

    So if you truly ... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:29:34 AM EST
    believe the claims in the video "must be treated/answered" why didn't you do that yourself?

    The dude in the video even gave you the page number.

    Parent

    Because I believe in just letting (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 08:33:49 AM EST
    everyone talk and shout. If they are out of line it will wear out.

    It is the Left who is condemning their right to speak. So if you think they are wrong, you tell us how.

    Parent

    No one is condemning ... (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:25:06 AM EST
    anyone's right to do anything.

    Freedom of speech doesn't protect one from ridicule.

    Parent

    does freedom of speech (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:23:54 PM EST
    protect those that are trying to incite public violence?  I'm sure there have been more than a few cases of this in the legal system (and it's more of a rhetorical question, obviously)...

    Parent
    Steve (none / 0) (#125)
    by NYShooter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:36:54 PM EST
    I think the question is about the planned & rehearsed, projection and extrapolation the speaker inserted into his "scare-the-H*ll-out-of-them" talk. He referred to the paragraph talking about "counseling sessions," which included "end of life counseling," and then added his own delusional projection by saying it "can be" an end of life order.

    Of course the "can be an order" was a figment of his sick imagination, but he knows all too well that that phrase will be what the audience will remember.

    And they'll go home and tell everyone the Democrats wanna kill everyone over 65.
    His spin worked...........even right here on TL.


    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#126)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:39:19 PM EST
    I'm at work, can't watch the video part right now.

    If it's the business about counseling sessions, I believe Obama addressed that pretty directly the other day when he explained that it simply means you can have a living will if you want.  So if the suggestion is that there's no response to his question, obviously there is.

    Parent

    The suggestion is (none / 0) (#127)
    by NYShooter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:49:45 PM EST
    There is no end of life order.

    He made it up.


    Parent

    It's some of the more ... (none / 0) (#128)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:52:28 PM EST
    twisted logic I've heard.  

    These protesters are making Alex Jones look mainstream.

    Parent

    I Can Refute the (Speakers) Remarks PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by john horse on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:39:04 AM EST
    re: Can any of you refute his remarks re "end of life orders"?

    PPJ,
    I read the section of the bill in question.  Have you?  The section allows Medicare to pay for "advance care planning consultations".  

    The speaker said that this consultation was mandatory or required but there is nothing in this section making this consultation either mandatory or required.  

    Contrary to what the speaker says, there is nothing in this section giving the government the power to make life or death decisions for an individual or group of individuals.   As  a matter of fact, one of the things that the consultation will discuss will be the designation of a surrogate decision maker by the individual so that the "treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out."  So, its not the government that makes the treatment decisions, its the individual.

    So I don't see where there is anything in the bill to support what the speaker is saying about the bill.  Now PPJ here is where the ball is in your court.  You provide the evidence in the bill that support the speaker's remarks.  

    If you can't then you've just proven that what he said is false.

    Parent

    don't hold your breath (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:11:59 PM EST
    jim's already said he doesn't care if these peoples' "fears" are irrational, we have to treat them as if they are.  and, of course, "far left" irrationalities are only to be ignored or ridiculed.  

    Parent
    we have to treat the irrational... (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:12:47 PM EST
    ...as if they ARE ratonal, that is.

    Parent