home

Was John McCain Born In The US?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:09:44 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

I have generally avoided the birther issue because it is so monumentally stupid. I know it helps Democrats in painting the GOP as extreme (and thus understand why Democratic blogs are pushing the story), but I think it actually provides great insight into how uninformed the American People are in general. Consider this blog post from PPP on its preliminary polling on the birther question in Virginia:

In a result making me want to bang my head against the table, the first round of calls for our Virginia poll this afternoon founds voters in the state almost evenly split on whether they thought the President was born in the US. We're polling North Carolina next week, and I am almost definitely going to throw a question on there asking people whether they think Hawaii is a state or not.

(Emphasis supplied.) I would also throw in a question asking whether they believe John McCain was born in the US. Because he wasn't. Now, I know the birther legal theory posits that US law makes the question relevant for Obama but not for McCain, but the reality is the Constitutional question makes this less than clear (Congressional law can not conflict with the Constitution.)

In the end, neither McCain nor Obama are naturalized citizens so the entire question is supremely stupid. But it does provide a window into the ignorance of the American People.

Speaking for me only

< Where is Mustafa Setmariam Nassar? | Plaxico Burress Indicted >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Was John McCain Born In The US? | 153 comments (153 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Gosh (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:15:11 PM EST
    Imagine if he had been born in Puerto Rico.  Or Guam!

    Perhaps some people have seen the latest fakery purporting to make its way around the Internet, an alleged birth certificate showing that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya in 1961.  Among the many errors identified by fact-checkers in the course of establishing that this document is phony: Apparently Mombasa was not even IN Kenya in 1961!

    Heh (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:19:20 PM EST


    Parent
    Originals (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:31:43 PM EST
    available through Birther and Yellowcake Certificates R Us.

    Parent
    You beat me to it Keys (none / 0) (#144)
    by cal1942 on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 02:16:38 AM EST
    it's so reminiscent of the yellowcake documents.

    Parent
    Kenya... (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:40:34 PM EST
    ...was still a British Commonwealth in 1961 and did not become an independent Republic until 1963.  So, clearly, BO is really the King of England!11!!!

    Double secret marxistmuslimmonarcist.

    Parent

    well, (none / 0) (#19)
    by bocajeff on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:45:56 PM EST
    was it typed in the same font as the Bush Texas Air National Guard story that CBS ran...

    They are all just so effin stupid...

    Parent

    It would help if some of the people (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:27:49 PM EST
    elected to serve in the Congress were not being role models for stupid.

    And the media?  Don't even get me started.

    Well, the frustration about ignorance (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jjc2008 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:29:43 PM EST
    abounds.   From the birthers, to the tea baggers now loudly protesting for NO HEALTH REFORM.  I suspect many of these protestors are clueless about whether Hawaii is a state, how their health care policy (if they have one) works.  

    We, teachers, have a saying for when we are working to raise the mill levy to support education in a city where the right dominates: If you think education is expensive, wait until you see what ignorance costs.

    Sadly we now see the results of years and years of ignorance and brain washing in this country.

    That's a great saying (none / 0) (#23)
    by vicndabx on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:49:44 PM EST
    If you think education is expensive, wait until you see what ignorance costs.
    I'd buy that on a t-shirt.

    Parent
    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:36:25 PM EST
    that no one has really yet defined what "natural-born" means, legally speaking

    I always figured "natural born" meant (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:09:43 PM EST
    by Lamaze method, with a midwife or doula present.

    Parent
    I thought it meant... (none / 0) (#94)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:06:31 PM EST
    conceived the old fashioned way myself:)

    Parent
    The 1898 Wong case (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:38:51 PM EST
    came pretty close.  The U.S. Supreme Court held that a person born in the U.S. of aliens was a citizen.

    The Wong court uses the terminology "natural born" throughout but a little loosely.

    It also surveys the law--going back hundreds of years--and shows that we follow the English Common Law of granting automatic citizenship to anyone born on our soil.  The English called such a person a "natural born subject."    Our constitution changed it to "natural born citizen."

    Parent

    Pesky 14th Amendment! (none / 0) (#109)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:42:08 PM EST


    Parent
    Why is this hard? (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:50:12 PM EST
    I have no historical proof -- apparently there is none -- but from context, isn't it obvious that a "natural born citizen," as opposed to a "naturalized citizen" (the only other Constitutional category), is a person who is a citizen of the United States by virtue of the circumstances of his/her birth?  It doesn't mean a person who was born in one territory or place or another, nor does it mean "man born of woman" (sorry, Macbeth) ... it just means "a citizen since s/he was born."  Some of those are citizens under the 14th Amendment ("born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," i.e., not offspring of a diplomat) and some by statute (children of two U.S. citizens born anywhere, for example).  

    Parent
    I am personally satisfied (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:09:04 PM EST
    that "natural born" means that we're supposed to ask "was s/he always an American?" But I get that that's not your point.

    Well McCain (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:21:34 PM EST
    must be a true 'murican 'cause he's saying "NO" to Sotomayor.

    Gonna be an interesting Senate re-election....

    That's just stupid on his part (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:23:35 PM EST
    After all his posturing over the Dems voting against Bush appointees, and the fact that he is senator of a border state - that's just dumb politics.

    Parent
    He's got a primary... (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:29:10 PM EST
    ...to win.  Ole Walnuts isn't going to win the hearts and minds of your average GOP'er by looking all soft when it comes to non-whites.

    Parent
    Don't you all understand? Obama is from (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by steviez314 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:46:45 PM EST
    the 41st century.  He went back in his time machine and planted that fake Hawaii birth certificate, and the newspaper announcements.

    I know this, becasue I went back in mine and tried to undo everything, but I accidentallly stepped on this butterf...........

    Ahh, the Ray Bradbury effect (none / 0) (#124)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:38:49 PM EST
    that or Marty McFly. Actually I'm left to wonder whether the original was a Twilight Zone.

    Parent
    Why doesn't Obama (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:46:28 PM EST
    just produce a valid birth certificate? One would think that if you are the President of the USA that you have the pull to produce a valid and legal birth certificate. But yet he keeps ignoring the issue.

    Common sense tells you when someone keeps ducking the most common and elementary of things that they are doing so for a reason. What is Obama's reason?

    Oy (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:49:43 PM EST
    Here comes Lou Dobbs.

    Parent
    No not Dobbs (1.00 / 0) (#29)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:56:31 PM EST
    Actually that would be a question Obama himself might have had to answer if asked when lecturing on constitutional law.

    No birth certificate = No proof of citizenship.

    It's quite easy really and not all the Gate's like 'let's just argue non-facts' in the world are going to change the fact that he has never produced a birth certificate. Why?

    This blog is populated with attorneys. Every attorney knows when someone is ducking a question or ducking the production of a document that there is a 99.99% chance that that person is trying to hide something. I suppose as an attorney you would agree with that.

    Parent

    WTF are you talking about? (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:22:59 PM EST
    A birth certificate is not necessary to prove citizenship. Nor is it even sufficient (you also have to prove identity).

    Parent
    If there is no recorded birth certificate, (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:29:00 PM EST
    how does one prove where one was born?  Assuming no one present at the birth (besides the newborn) is able to testify?

    Parent
    The State Department accept lots of things (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:32:58 PM EST
    for example:

    Baptismal certificate
    Hospital birth certificate
    Census record
    Early school record
    Family bible record
    Doctor's record of post-natal care
    These documents must be early public records showing the date and place of your birth, preferably created within the first five years of your life.

    You may also submit an Affidavit of Birth form DS-10 from an older blood relative, i.e.: a parent, aunt, uncle or sibling who has personal knowledge of your birth. It must be notarized or show the seal and signature of the acceptance agent.

    I believe you can also get affidavits from people who have known you for a long time. One document that does prove citizenship is a current or expired U.S. Passport, which we can be sure Obama has and has had.

    In any case, proof of citizenship does not rely on any one particular document.

    Parent

    when I got (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:45:11 PM EST
    my birth cert at 16 we used, along with statements from people who knew me, a page from the family bible that recorded the birth.

    I was not born in a hospital and didnt get a BC until I got my first job.

    Parent

    My second (none / 0) (#71)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:58:11 PM EST
    was not born in a hospital, and the amount of bureaucratic hassle involved in getting his birth certificate registered was amazing.  Not only did the attending midwife (a licensed professional) have to sign the birth certificate of course, but we had to get a separate notarized statement from a pediatrician who examined him, etc., etc.  Lots of what I can only assume are anti-fraud measures.

    Parent
    it was a pretty big pain (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:07:12 PM EST
    when I did it.  took almost a year.
    post 9/11 I would imagine I probably cant imagine.

    Parent
    yeah (none / 0) (#108)
    by Jen M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:41:49 PM EST
    I have a friend from the Apalachian part of Virginia who needed an affidavit to get her passport.  I imagine there are still people from that area who don't have birth certificates.

    Parent
    Dude (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:30:08 PM EST
    eeven The National Review is saying the "birthers" theory is pure lunacy.

    Parent
    The National Review (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:14:21 PM EST
    always says that. Plausible deniability and all that.

    Meanwhile the rube-outreach project goes on below the radar to convince people that Vince Fostor was murdered, Kerry's wounds were self inflicted, I-raq attacked us, Obama's a muslim etc etc

    Parent

    Probobly because he's not (5.00 / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:59:14 PM EST
    into publicly appeasing talk-radio-educated morons.

    In all the vetting that's gone on in all the years Obama's been in politics, you dont think this very elementary issue has been checked from every angle already?

    Parent

    Sorry, I'm not really entertaining (1.00 / 0) (#34)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:06:48 PM EST
    such non-fact arguments like yours that are rampant on blogs.

    At least I make an argument with a fact - that fact being he is not in possession of a birth certificate proving he is a citizen.

    Parent

    Except for that flag pin. (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:29:25 PM EST


    Parent
    Amazing (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:14:40 PM EST
    Further and further down the rabbit hole we go, to the planet where Obama has never produced a birth certificate.

    Parent
    And that planet (1.00 / 0) (#55)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:31:31 PM EST
    is planet earth where in the USA and other countries I would imagine, there are times when in the course of certain events every person subject to those events must produce a birth certificate.

    Ever travel abroad Steve? If you did you needed a passport. To get a passport you needed a bith certificate.

    Interestingly during the elections it came out that Obama, after his foreign schooling, never traveled abroad. Not once. Why? maybe he couldn't get a passport? And why would that be? Oh yeah he can't produce a birth certificate therefore he could never be issued a passport.

    As usual Steve the simple facts that add up easier that 1+1 evade you.

    Parent

    The aluminum foil you can buy from CVS (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:34:30 PM EST
    will protect you from the government broadcasts!

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#65)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:42:22 PM EST
    andgarden. Did they teach that rebuttal in law school?

    Your 'non-argument, no proof to the contrary, sophomoric response' is the determining factor that qualifies this thread and comments like yours for a FEMA grant.

    Parent

    You must have such difficulty in your life, (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:46:25 PM EST
    what with not being able to tell the difference between mockery and rebuttal.

    Parent
    He wants you to show (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:50:51 PM EST
    him Obama's birth certificate, if you have a copy.
    Just make sure it's not a carefully designed forgery concocted through the cooperation of every law enforcement branch of the government.

    Parent
    You mocked yourself with (none / 0) (#77)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:13:59 PM EST
    that sophomoric post. All the spin in the world doesn't change that fact. I'd be kind and say you can do better than that but I'm not sure that would be the truth.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:20:35 PM EST
    Compared to the ignorant backwater birther nonsense you are serving, sophomoric looks like post graduate work at an ivy league university.

    Parent
    CVS has aluminum foil? (none / 0) (#116)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:04:14 PM EST
    And, are they in other places aside from California?

    And, my comments are about as apropos as the birthers'.

    Parent

    Interesting (5.00 / 4) (#64)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:40:22 PM EST
    I seem to recall a discussion during the campaign that Obama had traveled to Pakistan during college, but I guess the campaign must have gone differently on Planet Talex, where Obama "never traveled abroad after his foreign schooling, not once."

    The document Obama has produced is the exact same type of birth certificate that anyone else from Hawaii would get if they paid the state to provide them with a copy.  It is an official government record that would be perfectly acceptable at the State Department or any other government office.

    I honestly did not think you could get any more detached from reality, so in that sense, at least there's one issue where you've proven me wrong.

    Parent

    Duh Steve (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CST on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:44:48 PM EST
    Pakistan is the 57th state

    Parent
    You are being silly... (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:19:45 PM EST
    You are asking Obama to produce a birth certificate so he can appease a small number of fringe right wingers who would not believe it if they saw it anyway.

    The argument you are making is not unlike the ones made by moon landing conspiracy nuts who think that Neil Armstrong didn't really go to the moon because he won't swear on a Bible that he did.

    It is not up to the person being accused to produce a damn thing. It is up to YOU - or the conspiracy fools - to provide your facts.

    And anyway the documents that have been released by Hawaii are all the proof we need. Period.

    Parent

    But (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:37:12 PM EST
    He's traveled abroad since then.  Is POTUS exempt from having a passport?

    Parent
    I think heads of state typically are (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:38:34 PM EST
    But private citizen Obama was not when he made his trip to europe last summer.

    Parent
    How many times? (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Jen M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:43:43 PM EST
    Its online, been on tv, plus he was in school in Indonesia from age 6 to ten or so. He had to have a passport that whole time. He proved it 40+ years ago.

    Parent
    The birthers would ask another question (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:50:51 PM EST
    They will never be satisfied.  They are not influenced by facts--just try to use them, sorta, to support their malicious idiocy.

    Obama has of course produced a birth certificate.  He has produced an official document issued by the state of Hawaii that is sufficneint to get a passport.  

    But you insist that complying with the law is not enough.  He must produce the long form from the hospital.  No one else has to jump through this hoop--why should Obama?

    And, if Obama complies and does produce the hospital version, it would only serve to  elevate the profile of the birthers....And they would move on to other questions and issues:  He was adopted and surrendered his citizenship; he can't be President because even if he was born in Hawaii, his father was from Kenya; he uses mulitple social security numbers; and on and on.  All false--but no matter.

    Rather than give these nuts any encouragement, they need to be ignored right from the start.

    But why is a perfectly valid birth certificate not good enough for you?

    In one of the Gates threads, you voiced some very disturbing racial attitudes--tremendous racial resentment....That tells me a lot.

    Parent

    There must be (1.00 / 0) (#93)
    by ZtoA on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:03:41 PM EST
    some compelling political reason Obama is letting this distraction continue.

    Seriously (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:25:36 PM EST
    We all know the targets of crazy conspiracy theories have the inherent ability to stop people from believing those theories any time they choose!

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:28:28 PM EST
    Crazy people.

    Parent
    fewer people (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:18:02 PM EST
    talking about health care

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:35:58 PM EST


    Parent
    sorry (none / 0) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:37:58 PM EST
    is this not true?

    Parent
    Did you read the comment you (none / 0) (#105)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:38:51 PM EST
    were responding to?

    Parent
    I did. (2.00 / 0) (#107)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:41:06 PM EST

    I would guess he is looking for any reason at all to have people not talking about health care reform.

    even his birth certificate.


    Parent

    Sheesh (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:12:21 PM EST
    Walking away slowly now . . .

    Parent
    Or, politically (none / 0) (#123)
    by ZtoA on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:26:33 PM EST
    just let the crazies twist in the wind for a while and attach as many republican to it as possible - they'll attach themselves. This venture is certainly bound to fail and make the birthers look foolish.

    Parent
    I think they should also ask people if they (none / 0) (#2)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:15:48 PM EST
    believe that one can see Russia from Alaska.  

    Actually, you can (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:32:48 PM EST
    from the furthest Aluetian Island with binoculars

    Parent
    I was born in Queens. (none / 0) (#4)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:25:36 PM EST
    I've heard there are those who don't consider that part of America.

    LOL. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:29:13 PM EST
    I was born in Hollywood, CA. Everyone knows that's another country!

    Parent
    As if we needed another window (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:34:37 PM EST
    tens-of-millions of people read the Left Behind series and supposedly, something like half the people in the country thought Iraq planned, or participated directly in the 9/11 attacks.

    And, there aren't many indications that we're getting any smarter. That Obama fella with the A-rab sounding name? You cant tell me he was born in the U.S.

    Parent

    Certainly not (none / 0) (#11)
    by CST on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:34:49 PM EST
    "real America"

    Parent
    Me too.... (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:43:22 PM EST
    Flushing Hospital, with the original birth to prove it!

    And as you know, we have many colorful sayings for those who think Queens ain't part of America:)

    Parent

    Queens Hospital, Jamaica, for me. (none / 0) (#56)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:31:43 PM EST
    Maybe I really wasn't born in the US...

    Parent
    lol... (none / 0) (#125)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:48:40 PM EST
    You mean Jamaica and Flushing aren't considered the heartland?

    Parent
    "window into the ignorance. . . (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:35:14 PM EST
    . . . of the American People".

    I feel like I have a room with a view.

    I like my black-out curtains (none / 0) (#39)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:13:07 PM EST
    BTD needs to stop opening them!

    Parent
    Chuck Norris (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:37:45 PM EST
    wants to know.

    caution that link is to world net daily

    life begins at conception (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:41:02 PM EST
    so if BHO was conceived in Kenya, we ought to start planning for a new election.

    I'm not sure how they get around (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:42:20 PM EST
    the fact that even if he was born on Mars, his mother was still and American citizen

    Parent
    He only had one US parent (1.00 / 0) (#25)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:51:18 PM EST
    the laws of citizenship are different for those born abroad to one US citizen parent than they are for that same person being born to two US citizens.

    McCain for instance was born to two US citizens therefore there is no doubt that he is a citizen. Had he been born to only one citizen parent then there would be a question depending on his year of birth and the laws that applied at the time.

    Parent

    The Constitution is the controlling law (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:53:36 PM EST
    on this issue - not any Congressional act.

    Parent
    That's right (1.00 / 0) (#38)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:09:32 PM EST
    And the constitution is not on Obama's side if he can't prove that he was born here. Remember that.

    Parent
    Like I said (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:15:27 PM EST
    not getting any smarter.

    Of course the rethug-idiot-fringe subtext to this story is even worse: ie, he's a furner 'n probobly a muslim, who dont want us ta be safe.

    Parent

    Comments like yours jondee (none / 0) (#42)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:19:22 PM EST
    don't make for a strong argument. In fact it is not an argument at all. It is just name calling while flapping your arms around. And why do you do that instead of making a valid argument? Because you have no proof that he is a citizen, that's why.

    Parent
    Not getting any smarter at all (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:25:21 PM EST
    you honestly believe Obama's somehow been able to live in the U.S and be as involved in politics as he has all these years and never, at any time, have to show anyone his birth certificate?

    Get some help, or find a meaningful hobby to occupy your mind, or something.

    Parent

    I know any number (none / 0) (#54)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:30:35 PM EST
    of presidential primary candidates who would have been at his throat if that would have even been an issue....and not just Ms. Clinton.

    Parent
    i am not sure either (none / 0) (#33)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:06:38 PM EST
    but I put nothing past them......

    Parent
    The Birthers.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:45:44 PM EST
    are doing us a favor...every second they spend on the nonsense is a second they aren't spending on other topics...this is good, if a little sad.

    IIRC (none / 0) (#21)
    by bocajeff on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:48:13 PM EST
    Therer were many people in 2000 and 2008 who were pushing the McCain isn't qualified to be president angle. Just your usual nitwits on the fringes of american society (right and left).

    Wasn't the issue (none / 0) (#24)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:49:48 PM EST
    Not that Obama wasn't born in the US (only the fringe believe that), but that his citizenship may have been changed by his stepfather when he lived in Indonesia?

    I'm not arguing that he isn't qualified to be POTUs - but isn't that the more rational question? (rational being relative).

    No idea (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:52:45 PM EST
    And not sure how exactly his father could do that anyway.

    To renounce your US citizenship, you have to be an adult and to actively petition for the renunciation.

    And sometimes even that is not enough - Google "Mari Bras."

    Parent

    So, you're saying (none / 0) (#30)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:56:51 PM EST
    a parent can't up and move to another country and have everyone in the family change their citizenship?  I know they can do it here - have a friend who was born in Canada and she moved to the US as a child, and her parents got her citizenship changed when they changed theirs.

    And all I know, is the stories said Obama's stepfather changed it so he could enroll him in school over there (I assume with Obama's mother's permission).  Don't know the validity of that or not.

    Parent

    Not a US citizen (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:40:09 PM EST
    A parent can not renounce his child's US citizenship.

    Parent
    Here is ther State Dep't on the issue (none / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:14:56 PM EST
    Link:

    RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

    Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.



    Parent
    NO! (1.00 / 0) (#32)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:02:06 PM EST
    The question is was he born in the USA? He has never produced a birth certificate proving he was. And interestingly no one else has been able to locate one for him or any other record of his birth in the US.

    And remember Obama in his early years was schooled abroad. Is there a record of him being schooled here when he was very young. If not then one has to wonder, given no birth certificate and being schooled abroad in his youth that maybe he was not born here.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:07:32 PM EST

    The Driector of the Hawaii Department of Helath and the state Registrar of Deeds     said he has a real birth certificate. and have signed affadavits attesting to that fact.

    Parent
    Good work (4.00 / 1) (#79)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:14:45 PM EST
    Google is your friend as they say. That is what I needed. I was not aware of the document, as was no one else here or they would have posted that link before you. Thanks.

    Parent
    I suspect a lot of us were aware of it (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:17:48 PM EST
    but just don't have the patience for your nonsense. Yes, google is your friend. Try it some time.

    Parent
    Ha Ha (none / 0) (#83)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:20:00 PM EST
    Sure thing buddy. You'd rather talk nonsense that bring forward the proof. Ha Ha.

    Parent
    FAIL (5.00 / 0) (#85)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:20:54 PM EST


    Parent
    The date on that article (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CST on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:22:43 PM EST
    is August 2008.  It has been all over the news since then.  Not sure how you could've not known about it.  The proof is there, it's done.  Not our fault you chose to ignore it.

    Parent
    Nice try (none / 0) (#91)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:58:59 PM EST
    If you had known it you would have posted it. Same with this diary. Had BTD had known of the document or remembered it he would have posted it in the diary or in subsequent posts.

    I have to laugh because everyone here is going to claim they knew it but just didn't post it. LOL

    Parent

    Definitely Talex (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:59:54 PM EST


    Parent
    Seems that when you and (none / 0) (#113)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:50:18 PM EST
    Steve are out of ammo and at a loss for words you often label other posters as talex. It kind of tragic really. Your behavior in doing so shows you have a long way to go to becoming an actual attorney. Oh and the tinfoil thing just ices it. Good luck because law school doesn't guarantee you a job.

    I'd suggest if you want to be one at least start to try to pretend to act like one.

    Parent

    It takes a special person (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:54:33 PM EST
    to be proven a fool and to nevertheless continue yammering.

    Parent
    Projecting again andgarden? (none / 0) (#118)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:11:53 PM EST


    Parent
    Kind of funny (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:17:20 PM EST
    how you know that I've accused all these "other people" of being talex as well, since your story is that you're all completely different people.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:35:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:22:04 PM EST
    I'm sure that's it, none of us had seen that extremely well-publicized document either.  I am personally shocked to find out that my factual assertions on this topic are backed up by documentary proof rather than sheer speculation, but you know, I suppose it was just a lucky guess.

    Parent
    ROFLMAO (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:08:15 PM EST


    Parent
    So you googled it (none / 0) (#97)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:09:33 PM EST
    It's not like you knew about it previously or at the very least remembered it. Had you you would have posted it right a way instead of the nonsense you were posting. I'm not dumb, I know the games people play online - 'Oh duh, I knew that all the time'. Sure!

    That said the difference between you and I is I am a MAN and when someone posts something that makes sense or rebuts my view I thank them and say job well done just as I did.

    You see it takes a great deal of self-confidence to acknowledge I had the facts wrong and someone else came up with THE FACTS. Unlike you and many others who always refuse to say they were wrong even when the facts say you are. You lack the confidence in yourself to admit you had it wrong and lack the depth of character to admit it publicly like I did. Doing as I did separates the men from the boys. I can hold my head up high and admit I can be wrong all the while laughing at the parade of posters who will all say: 'I knew that but didn't post it'. LOL.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:15:59 PM EST
    I will admit that you certainly do not lack for self-confidence.

    I confess it never occurred to me that you had never seen that document.  I thought you were taking the position, as many of the birthers do, that the document displayed at factcheck.org is not Obama's legal "birth certificate" for some technical reason or another.

    I did not think you would go flailing about with your usual brand of spittle-flecked invective, insisting with high dudgeon that Obama has never ever produced a birth certificate, without having done even a tiny bit of research to find out if you were right.  I will be a man and admit I was wrong.

    Parent

    Steve, I hope you are going (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:16:49 PM EST
    to write ChiTownMike a huge check for this therapy session. Not only has he made you aware of your lack of self-confidence but he has also shown you what a MAN acts like.... :-)

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#137)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 08:36:06 PM EST
    My condolences. Sorry you never heard the expression: 'It takes a man to admit he is wrong'. That must be a big shock to you. I'm sorry you were never taught that during your upbringing. You were taught to be a smarta*s though with not much to say at all. A troll is what you are with attempted personal attacks that ad noting to the subject of the thread. I say 'attempted' because coming from someone like you I just consider the source and laugh in pity.

    It appears that social skill are not a requirement to post here. Next time I'll report you for trolling ;)

    Parent

    The expression (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 11:42:13 PM EST
    implies that a real man would possess a certain degree of humility, which is hard to identify when one goes from "Obama never produced a birth certificate, you idiots" to "oh, I guess I was wrong" to "BAHAHA now I'm a bigger man than all of you" in the span of about 5 seconds.

    Parent
    Talk about an idiot (none / 0) (#148)
    by ChiTownMike on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 10:08:19 AM EST
    Take a look in the mirror. I never said anything close to what you claim. I asked where was dihis BC ad it at the time that no one here was claiming he had one, including you. And nobody did claim that he had one until they themselves had to go to school on google.

    And you of all people should not be chiding others for being wrong as you are wrong on many issues, the latest be Gates when you just flat made stuff up about falsified reports in which Gates never said himself that the report was falsified nor did his lawyers. But did you admit you were wrong? No. You are a little guy who just can't bring himself to do that.

    I laugh loudly at you and others who chide someone for being man enough to admit being wrong when you could never do so yourself. But then that is probably why you chide me. You want to poke fun an an act that you could never do and in doing so your sick mind can say being a man and admitting you were wrong is a joke and that is why I don't do it. You are really one screwed up person.

    I'm sorry for your upbringing that denied you centuries old truths about being a man and replaced it with being a smartas*. Being a consistent SA is not being a man. Any adolescent can be a SA. Most grow out of it. Some don't.

    Parent

    Funny (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 10:17:51 AM EST
    You repeatedly and loudly claimed that Gates had never disputed anything in the report.

    I informed you that Gates had given an interview on Sirius Radio where he disputed, among other things, the absurd "mama" comment attributed to him in the police report.

    Your response was to claim, based upon a 1-minute snippet from the interview that someone else linked, that Gates never said any such thing in the interview.

    You are a clown who is wrong about virtually everything.  Learn how to find the facts yourself instead of blustering and calling everyone else liars until they provide you with a link.

    Parent

    Again (none / 0) (#150)
    by ChiTownMike on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 10:32:26 AM EST
    Gates can claim anything he wants to when not under oath. Of course he does not want to admit he said such hate filled racial things. Would you?

    There is a reason he did not go forward with his lawsuit and it was probably that he would have to testify under oath. But yet you are not intelligent enough to allow for that possibility. For you there is only one side of the moon because you can't see the other side so it is not there.

    My argument about Gates and the subsequent events supports my view not yours. But again you are not intelligent enough to see that.

    FYI a person who chides someone for manning up is the clown. Sorry your upbringing did not teach you the age old credo that 'it takes a man to own up to his mistakes'. I'm even more sorry that you will go though your entire life not understanding that credo. Let's just say that you are a SAD clown.

    Parent

    The fact (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 11:21:34 AM EST
    that you choose not to believe Gates' side of the story does not change the fact that you were wrong, 100% wrong, to claim that Gates had not disputed anything in the police report.

    Just another incorrect statement that you are not "man" enough to own up to.

    Parent

    Why wrong? (none / 0) (#153)
    by ChiTownMike on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 11:57:21 AM EST
    There is no reason to believe Gates when he is not under oath. Just because you want to believe a man not under oath who has every reason to deny what Crowley and the other officers at the scene agreed he said does not make Gates' denials true. Gates went off an a race hating rant and I believe that because that is what even the Black police officer agreed that he said. And not one of the 7 reported bystanders has come forward to say Gates didn't say what everyone else says he said. He dropped his lawsuit. and he has quit denying that he said what he said probably at teh advice of his attorneys. You have none of that backing you up. All you have is Gates' understandable denial to save his public face and your own sick bias.

    You know if you knew anything about psychology, which your posts show you don't, you would understand that your laughable and continuous  chiding of me for actually manning up is nothing but you trying to justifying in your own sick mind that it is OK to never admit to anything and to never be a man who can own up to his own errors. Good luck with that.

    Now I'm done with this topic as your posts are digressing into foolishness because you just have no self-control and don't know when to quit making a fool of yourself. On that note I do not need any further evidence from you. At this point any further posts form you on the topic is nothing more than you talking to yourself aimlessly which I am sure has been a habit of yours for a long time now. :)


    Parent

    I'll just refer (none / 0) (#117)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:09:00 PM EST
    you back to my last post, specifically the first paragraph. And in response to your post I'll put emphasis on the word "games" - something that you are very fond of playing even if you are not that good at it.

    And oh yeah, just a reminder, I can admit things, you can't. Men-boys.

    Parent

    Sure (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:21:33 PM EST
    Since you're such a big man who has no problem admitting when you're wrong, any plans to admit you were wrong to claim Obama "never traveled abroad after his foreign schooling, not once," as you did above as part of your argument that Obama must not have a birth certificate?  I'm sure your error was entirely the fault of other people for failing to provide you with a link, but still.

    Parent
    Not having taken time (1.00 / 0) (#128)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:08:51 PM EST
    to google. And you not having provided a link to your claim, I can't be sure he did travel to Pakistan.

    On top of that if Obama did SAY that during the campaign I find it hard to believe him anymore because he SAID a lot of things during the campaign that were obviously outright campaign lies - many of which have been chronicled here and at other blogs.

    So the answer is obviously no. I can't admit I am wrong on that because I am not sure I am.

    Now I would hope if you are saying it then it must be reported somewhere, although you did claim that Crowley's report was falsified and that was not reported anywhere, so who knows if it was reported because it does not take a report for you to just make things up.

    But even if it was reported, was it researched and verified or did the news outlets just parrot his press release?

    Too many holes that you can drive a truck through in that story including the person who posted about it here - which would be you.

    But I do admit he had a Certificate of Live Birth. I was wrong in saying he didn't. Admitting an error like that is something you will never be able to do because you lack the self-confidence that it takes to do so.

    Parent

    Oh well (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:55:21 PM EST
    Guess we found the limit to your manliness.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#135)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 08:14:41 PM EST
    Feeble try on your part though as I clearly said that I have not been shown wrong on the alleged Pakistan trip. You just like to throw sh*t up against the wall and sees what sticks. That tactic is reserved for people who don't really have anything to say but have to flap their trap anyway.

    But I am glad that you are equating manliness to admitting when one is wrong, when it is shown they are wrong. In doing so you are telling everyone you are not a manly man because you never admit you are wrong and never will. It is just not in your DNA. Weasel is in your DNA though.

    So thanks for the recognition that being self-confident and admitting when one is wrong is a manly thing to do and the admission via thousands of your posts that being manly does not apply to you. <grin>

    Parent

    "can't be sure he did" (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by CST on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 08:25:49 AM EST
    then why do you make blanket statements asserting he did not, if you "can't be sure he did not" either?

    Finally - I wonder why you think admitting one self is wrong has anything to do with being a man.  I know a number of women who would disagree with that assertion.

    But seriously, the birth certificate has been a matter of public record for a long time (since the campaign).  However, if you can't be bothered to google, what makes you think that any of us want to do your research for you.  Not to mention, I personally saw it on the evening news, so no, I was not gonna find that specific episode for you.

    Parent

    Oh Steve, now you've really gone and (none / 0) (#127)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:08:37 PM EST
    done it.
    Don't you know that Obama travelled to Pakistan when US citizens were banned from going there... so that means he really is not a citizen. It's true, I swear. I read it on the internet!!

    Parent
    LOL. That reminds me of the movie (none / 0) (#129)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:16:11 PM EST
    Gloria. The scene where Phil, the 10-year old boy, is trying to convince Gloria (Gena Rowlands) of his right to control the situation.

    "I am the man! I am the MAN!"

    Parent

    And you (none / 0) (#136)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 08:21:54 PM EST
    show your adolescence and lack of social skills. In civilized social environments when a person publicly admits they are wrong it is accepted and even admired and looked upon as manly. But not for some of the animals in this zoo - you shoephone being a prime example.

    Sorry for talking over your head.

    Parent

    Your prickliness is duly noted (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 09:33:00 PM EST
    That we are all having so much fun at your expense is a direct result of your aggressive, trollish behavior.

    (And seriously, your manliness is of no concern to me.)

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#151)
    by ChiTownMike on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 10:36:59 AM EST
    Oh your having fun alright but not at my expense. You are having it at your own expense as you are just making my point about your adolescent behavior by acting so - adolescent.

    Parent
    Would you also like a link (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:07:31 PM EST
    to evidence that the earth is round or the sun rises in the east?

    If you're going to argue for an outlandish position, you could at least be up on the facts at hand.  Feh.

    Parent

    Funny you didn't (1.00 / 0) (#120)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:16:27 PM EST
    say something similar to the Deranged Gates apologists who were wrong wrong wrong - no facts needed.

    And then of course you have never posted without having all the facts or all the facts right.

    But thanks for adding something that which without would have made this thread worthless. Quite a contribution. Pile on much? I thought your time was worth more.

    Parent

    ChiTownMike and the law (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:42:07 PM EST
    Do you even know the law? Sounds to me like you do not.
    First, legally the Gates issue was a no-brainer. Gates should never have been arrested. The law is pretty clear on such matters. Notably you cannot be arrested for being rude to a cop when you are in your own home or on your own porch or lawn. Period.

    Second, the Obama birth announcement released by the state of Hawaii is completely legal. No questions asked.

    I'm talking legal issues here - not opinions and in this case not even partisan issues.

    Parent

    You can be arrested for (2.00 / 1) (#134)
    by ChiTownMike on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 08:03:54 PM EST
    "disorderly conduct" no matter where you are, which is what Gates got arrested for. You not only don't know what he got arrested for, you don't understand the law. But I guess your just here to mouth off.

    Parent
    Must be in a public venue. (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 08:38:59 PM EST


    Parent
    I do not (none / 0) (#141)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 11:30:51 PM EST
    assert things as facts that I do not know, unlike you.

    As for Gates-gate, I mostly but not entirely stayed out of the discussion because anybody who dared voice a contrary opinion to the accepted narrative got creamed, and I wasn't in the mood.

    Once again, you turn guesses into assertions of fact.  Stop it.

    Parent

    Gyrfalcon, as a wise man once (none / 0) (#139)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 08:51:32 PM EST
    said...
    Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
    -- Homer Simpson

    Parent
    True enough (none / 0) (#142)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 11:33:13 PM EST
    but anybody with a shred of integrity will at least make an attempt to base their argument on the details that are publicly available.

    Parent
    What A Load (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:08:15 PM EST
    Do you believe that Hawaii is a legal State in the USA?

    If you do, the State of Hawaii has answered the question regarding Obama's birth.

    Oh and BTW- do you also believe that Obama is a Muslim and a Socialist?

    Terrorist? Manchurian Candidate?

    Parent

    yes, yes,yes (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:28:52 PM EST
    and yes.

    And he's poised to take away Mike and Glenn Beck's
    freedom.

    Parent

    Did you know the word "gullible" (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:28:39 PM EST
    is not in the dictionary?

    Parent
    I wonder how (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by eric on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:39:35 PM EST
    Obama has been so clever all of these years, obtaining a Social Security number, a passport, a drivers license...

    Fooled 'em all!

    Parent

    lol Eric... (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:48:36 PM EST
    you're making me wish it were true...a man like that can get things done!

    Parent
    Actually, you do not need to be a citizen (none / 0) (#72)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:59:53 PM EST
    to get a SS# or a driver's license but you do need to be one to get a passport.

    Parent
    Yes, (none / 0) (#73)
    by eric on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:05:50 PM EST
    that's true, but part of getting SS and DL involved disclosing your citizenship.

    Parent
    ChiTownMike you are wrong rong rong. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:29:47 PM EST
    The document provided by Hawaii is ALL Obama [or anyone born in Hawaii] needs. Period.
    Let's say for the sake of argument that Obama lost his birth certificate. It is possible; People lose or misplace birth certificates all the time. But they can get a copy of a new one easily by writing to the state they were born in. Viola! And what you get from Hawaii is the exact copy you can see on the internet.

    And as I wrote above:
    You are asking Obama to produce a birth certificate so he can appease a small number of fringe right wingers who would not believe it if they saw it anyway.
    It is not up to the person being accused to produce a damn thing. It is up to YOU to prove otherwise.

    Go get em tiger.

    Parent

    You need to read (none / 0) (#76)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:13:36 PM EST
    the link that jbindc already provided.

    Parent
    Birthers = Truthers (none / 0) (#28)
    by moderateman on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 02:55:31 PM EST
    There's a reason the two movements have similar names.  They're equally stupid and expose the fringes of the political spectrum for what they are.  Nuts.

    What I find interesting are the poll numbers.  Roughly the same amount of Republicans are Birthers as Democrats are Truthers.  Which tells you, idiocy bears no bias politically.

    The truthers (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by eric on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:32:57 PM EST
    that I know aren't democrats.  They are the Ron Paul Republican types.

    Parent
    these boots are made for walking... (none / 0) (#145)
    by DFLer on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 06:45:45 AM EST


    Parent
    Not that many Dems were truthers (none / 0) (#90)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 04:41:57 PM EST
    Not true about truthers. A very small percentage ever believed the truthers nonsense. Unfortunately we are finding that a whole heck of a lot more Republicans are latching onto the birther nonsense - including politicians in high places, which the truthers could never claim.

    The question that needs to be asked in both instances is why anyone would believe these conspiracies.
    In the case of the truthers it came down to a distrust of government that far exceeded skepticism. In the case of the birthers it rises from a series of emails that claimed Obama doesn't put his hand over his heart for the Pledge' and 'his father was an extreme muslim' and 'his name is a muslim name' as well as the fact that he is African American. The list goes on, but basically some do not want to believe Barrack Obama is president. So they latch onto the only thing they can that would remove him from office.

    Parent

    The correct pronounciation of (none / 0) (#51)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 03:29:14 PM EST
    the word is

    burfer!

    Gives it the respect it deserves.

    (Kind of a hybrid between bufu and surfer dude.)

    (got that spelling from another blog.)

    Has Prof. Gates written about this subject? (none / 0) (#126)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 06:49:04 PM EST


    This is a surpise to anyone?? (none / 0) (#130)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 07:16:34 PM EST
    The stupidity of Americans has never ceased to amaze me. More people know who Brittany Spears screwed last night than can name a single Supreme Court justice. Look at the numbers of people who were sure Iraq was involved in 9/11.

    By the way, my sister was born on Guam in 1955. Wonder if she could be president???

    tHE ONE GOOD QUESTION BIRTHERS ASK (none / 0) (#147)
    by Oceandweller on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 09:34:24 AM EST
    However very, very badly worded question. The dual citizenship, the fact one's parent may be a foreigner.
    Could and should be discussed in the House, could and should get clear and definite answers. But also could and should induce a reaction from the other countries with whom said child is holding a dual citizenship.
    Example: France
    -rule>>CHILD BORN FROM FRENCH CITIZEN where ever child born qualifies for french citizenship? So if while being a very young baby who cant have jos say your dad declares you at the nearest consulate: you are french NO WAY YOU CAN DENOUNCE THAT IT IS A RIGHT
    - be born in the US from an american parent and bingo US citizen: and if your parents carry on being married for the rest of their lifetimes and spend some times in europe sometimes in the US you end up as a dual national; by the way the US embassies are way smarter than the birthers as they never ask to choose. Because as a child and an adult how can you really choose between a lovely dad and an adorable mother...
    one can I would say really choose at the end: but all my friends who like me are in that case waited till one parent was dead; not before because it is so full of hurting dad or mom it is impossible
    in fact that is why we live on letter T of atlanTic ocean; praying war never happens betwen the 2 countries

    Was John McCain Born In The US? | 153 comments (153 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment