Digby On Kennedy

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 12:36:36 PM EST
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She writes a great one, but this is the best part:

John McCain said the other day that Kennedy's great gift was in making concessions to Republicans. That may be correct, but not in the way McCain meant it to be. Kennedy's great gift was fighting for progress without shame or obfuscation, making the moral argument for liberalism, and always trying to move the ball forward, inch by inch if that's all he could get and in great leaps if the opportunity presented itself. If he made the right concessions, it sure as hell wasn't in service of McCain's pinched and cruel agenda.

He was everything the conservatives hate: a proud, fighting liberal who didn't shirk from the label. Each day his presence was a rebuke to everything they believed in. . . . And all the while, Kennedy just kept going, getting more concessions from Republicans by being true to his principles, than mealy mouthed centrism ever did. There's a lesson in that.

(Emphasis supplied.) Matt Yglesias remarkably points to Kennedy's 1980 concession speech as some sort of paean to pragmatic capitulation - in his campaign to gain pre-approval for an Obama health care reform cave in. It shows how little he understands what Ted Kennedy did and was. Digby got it.

Speaking for me only

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Digby On Kennedy | 40 comments (40 topical)

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Go watch - or listen to - the archived speech (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by scribe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:07:06 PM EST

from Kennedy to an Alaska audience in the days immediately post the assassination of Martin Luther King, and pay close attention how he talks about the haters. (It's long -about a half hour - but worth it)

It could have been delivered today wihtout much -if any change.

It also shows the constancy of the man and his principles.

This blogger makes a good point: (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by oculus on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:08:35 PM EST

Legacies TL sidebar.

Bush legacies (none / 0) (#7)
by magster on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:34:40 PM EST

3 wars, 9/11, two recessions, a stolen election, government incompetence in response to a natural disaster, and placing the executive branch above the rule of law.

I suppose, with all that, that one could argue that the Bushes have actually had a bigger influence on our country.


You forgot the Bush Depression (none / 0) (#9)
by scribe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:41:40 PM EST

Though, given the length of the rest of the list, you might be forgiven.


: And the second stolen election...n/t. (none / 0) (#13)
by sallywally on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 05:07:25 PM EST

This seems to be (5.00 / 5) (#5)
by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:29:11 PM EST

the punditocracy's purse-lipped opinion, too-- that if Teddy had been leading the effort, he would have known how to compromise to get the bill done.

After 47 years, I don't think they have a clue who Teddy was and what he was.

: Yes, and some in the punditocracy (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by shoephone on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:49:06 PM EST

didn't actually hear Ted's speech in 1980 because... they weren't born yet.

: IMO (none / 0) (#6)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:34:38 PM EST

they are only saying that (and I think its a talking point because I hear it everywhere) because wasn't and couldn't.

: I don't know who is going to play (none / 0) (#14)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 09:37:46 PM EST

crazy liberal for them now that they have to undermine in order to provide balance :)

Somedays there just isn't anything like (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 03:07:10 PM EST

Digby. Was on the road today to Dothan, Joshua had to have two teeth out to make room for adult teeth coming in. Ted Kennedy is gone. The car in front of me is adorned in Jesus fish and a bumper sticker that read Resist Socialism. I vow to self to come home and grab a piece of that sticker paper for the printer and make a bumper sticker that has two lines Resist Socialism....F*@k Everybody But You. Then I realize that the rest of the piece of paper remaining would be about the size of a bumper sticker. It's really rather obvious from there on isn't it? It is a sign from Jesus that he wants me to remind everyone that Jesus was a Socialist.

You want to go to this site (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by scribe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 03:15:00 PM EST

and check out the custom bumper stickers you can have made for not a lot of money.

The nicest part is that the site is interactive, so you can see what it is you are going to get before you say "make it" and have it arrive in your mail a couple days later.

And, apparently, there's no pron or cussword filter.


Can you point to (none / 0) (#16)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 07:48:55 AM EST

a piece of scripture or a finding somewhere that backs up your assertion that Jesus was a socialist?


Okay Mathew 25 (none / 0) (#17)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:31:09 AM EST

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


Sorry (none / 0) (#18)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:34:37 AM EST

sounds like volunteerism. He is instructing his followers to do that. The bible did not say the worlds gov'ts will do that.


Volunteerism huh? (none / 0) (#20)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:36:44 AM EST

I guess you missed that part about do it or go to hell :)


Oh yeah, and how many "goverments" (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:38:24 AM EST

were around when God wrote this :) People are who make up the government and this is what those people are supposed to be doing or they go to hell. It's pretty simple really.


: And if you are Christian and you are fighting (none / 0) (#22)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:41:08 AM EST

for your tax dollars to not give aid to the poor, the destitute, the suffering....well, you are going to burn for eternity.

Point out where jesus (none / 0) (#23)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:45:54 AM EST

said have the gov't do it or go to hell. It is a person's choice.


: Goverment is the people (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:48:39 AM EST

Wiley, I'm fine if you burn. Denial is not a river in Egypt. If anyone is fighting to deny the poor safety and sanctuary in any way....they are sinning, they will burn.

There are many many others too (none / 0) (#19)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:35:56 AM EST

This is like the tip of the Jesus for Socialism iceberg. I may look like a heathen on the outside but I have a history of attempted indoctrination. I have no beef with Jesus either, only with most of the people who claim to be his followers but can't seem to remember anything that he said.


Point them out. You can't (none / 0) (#25)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 08:50:44 AM EST

you and alot of liberals, and progressives want him to be a socialist because it sounds good. Makes people feel good.


Let's see (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 09:46:45 AM EST

do I take all day to argue with you about this or not? It is called the New Testament. Read it. Why don't you show me where Jesus said that he wasn't a socialist? You can't show me one single verse where he says that. I'm a Buddhist. It is sad that I know more about what Jesus said than most Christians. In my world though Jesus was a Buddha so it is important to take a look at his teachings. If Jesus were the Buddha of my faith I would certainly be reading his teachings and on his path to the light.


Jesus was a socialist (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 09:54:19 AM EST

"all ye are brethren." (Matthew"23;8)

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."(Matthew: 22; 39)

"All things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." (Matthew: 7; 12)

"Let everyone who possesses two shirts share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise." (Luke: 3; 11)

"Give to every man that asketh of thee." (Luke: 6; 30)


More Volunteerism. (none / 0) (#30)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:09:04 PM EST

"all ye are brethren." (Matthew"23;8)
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."(Matthew: 22; 39)
"All things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." (Matthew: 7; 12)
"Let everyone who possesses two shirts share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise." (Luke: 3; 11)
"Give to every man that asketh of thee." (Luke: 6; 30)

Show the socialism. I see nowhere here the gov't is mentioned.


: I'm volunteering myself and my vote (none / 0) (#32)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:27:48 PM EST

and my tax dollars to doing what Jesus would do. I'm not going burn :)

: I've wondered ... (none / 0) (#39)
by sj on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 04:04:05 PM EST

... how the selfish thought their way out of that directive and still called themselves Christian. I see now. It's "volunteerism". If one doesn't volunteer to be generous of spirit there is no harm/no foul.
One doesn't have to do it. One volunteers to do it. LOL
And more laughs to see that in your mind the word "socialism" or "government" has to appear in the Bible for the concept to be valid.
I guess capitalism is invalid, too.

Sure, I will use the first one you pointed out. (none / 0) (#28)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:01:47 PM EST

First, this passage is about the rapture or the end of times or what ever you want to call it.

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Here he will separate the Christians (sheep) from the non-Christians (goats)

33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Here the Christians (the sheep) get the reward!

35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

The reward for doing good works!

Here the Christians (sheep not the goats) wonder why they are getting the reward because they did not realize they have been leading the good life (not paying enough taxes to relize that, I guess)

God says you helped out because that is your nature, you are a christian!

To the non-Christians (goats):

Too busy with non-christian things to help out in the world.

Big trouble for the goats (non-Christians)

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Blah, blah, blah. Sheep to heaven, goats to eternal punishment. Please show the socialism here. This is what you brought up as shoeing Jesus was socialist. BTW, the preacher down the street gave me some gouge on this.


Well (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by jondee on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:11:50 PM EST

one things for sure: he'd have no use for pathetic trickle-down, kiss up-kick down Social Darwinists, profiteering warmongers, flag humpers and televangelists with their own corporate jets and their humble flocks.

In other words, two-thirds of your fellow constituents, Wile.


: Or people (none / 0) (#37)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 03:28:28 PM EST

who demand the gov't do it all. The happy medium.

You are the one who (none / 0) (#29)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:05:37 PM EST

said Jesus was a socialist, but can't back it up. Prove you know more about what Jesus said about than Christians. I know more about Health care than the Obama Administration put together, but I cannot prove it.


Oh piffel (none / 0) (#34)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:29:37 PM EST

Your the one calling all this stuff volunteerism and leaving out the part that if you don't do it you are going to hell. Do the right thing then Wiley or burn.


We're getting into Pearls (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by jondee on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:46:38 PM EST

before swine territory here.

Dont forget Tracy, red state Christianity is about "faith not works." In other words, you dont have to walk your talk, just talk -- alot. And if you can commandeer a fifty thousand watt radio station, so much the better.


I suppose there isn't anything more (none / 0) (#36)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 01:27:45 PM EST

disconcerting than being a winger and realizing that you don't have the Jesus market cornered.


Ahh the liberal mantra (none / 0) (#38)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 03:33:20 PM EST

Have someone else do it.


: Now you know (none / 0) (#40)
by jondee on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 06:39:56 PM EST

why they like those burning crosses.

And Matt Yglesias wasn't even born (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 09:41:21 PM EST

when Kennedy gave that speech. Jesus Christ, I guess you had to survive Jimmy Carter in order to not get all excited about creating a new one.

Rename the bill after Kennedy, keep robust PO, (none / 0) (#1)
by magster on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:00:49 PM EST

dare the Republicans and Blue Dogs to filibuster, and then resort to reconciliation if need be.

It's as simple as that.

Go for great leaps! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Cream City on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:27:54 PM EST

(I like that line.) And stifle the talk of last resorts until the last minute -- which may be pushed back for more months now.


: Yes. For Pete's sake, do (5.00 / 3) (#8)
by MKS on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:35:11 PM EST

not negotiate against yourself....
Most everyone knows that, right? And we are talking about the pros here--those who make a living negotiating bills in Congress....
And emphasize your strengths. Here, that includes being able to pass a bill with 50 votes through reconciliation.....

Being true to his principles also gave us ... (none / 0) (#33)
by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 12:28:47 PM EST

... the Reagan Era.

The tragedy of Campaign 1980 is not without lessons for principled progressives today.

Digby On Kennedy

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