home

Yglesias: Tomorrow's Compromise Is Today's Triumph

What really bugs me about the New "Progressive" Broderism being championed by Ezra Klein, Matt Yglesias and Co. is they have absolutely no idea what a final "compromise" health care bill will look like and they are already whipping for it like nobody's business. Today, Yglesias pens a post titled Yesterday's Compromise Is Tomorrow's Triumph:

The [. . .] point for today is that you need to judge legislative outcomes relative to the status quo, not relative to what you enact in utopia. Medicare & Medicaid (especially the very stingy version of Medicaid that was initially created) were really pretty pathetic compared to what Harry Truman proposed. But they’ve done enormous good for a lot of people over the decades.

How in blazes can Yglesias be judging "tomorrow's compromise" when he has no idea what it will be? We can judge Medicare and Medicaid now (and even then) because you knew what it was. Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias do not even have the foggiest notion what a "compromise" HCR bill will look like and they are already declaring it a triumph. Just pathetic.

Speaking for me only

< What Ted Kennedy Taught Us | January Special Election Likely To Fill Kennedy Senate Seat >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    On balance will it be mostly a Medicare cuts bill (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by fairleft on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 10:33:40 AM EST
    or mostly an insurance for those that don't have it bill? We don't know until we see the cuts, the raised fees/premiums, how much the working poor and near poor will pay for health insurance, and so on. We know for certain we'll still have the same unreformed, 17 going on 20% of GNP health care system.

    we dont actually know any of that (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 10:43:17 AM EST
    I still think there is a chance the democrats will see the writing on the wall and understand that if they dont lead this year they will probably not be in a position to after next year.
    nor should they be.

    Parent
    Medicare cuts to subsidize insurance companies (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by lambert on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:10:16 AM EST
    Not a bug, but a feature!

    Parent
    Odd post by Yglesias. (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 10:47:46 AM EST
    In talking about Medicare and Medicaid, he is referring to PUBLIC PROGRAMS that were later expanded.  Going with his logic the only way we can pat ourselves on the back in the future is by passing a bill with a PUBLIC OPTION.  Which he clearly does not give a flip about.  This article for example.

    I'll go along with what he's saying, but what it is is an argument for a public option, which is currently set to be abandoned as part of compromise.

    The Massachusetts story is that (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by fairleft on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:51:23 AM EST
    things are getting worse over time: subsidies for mandatory insurance are being cut and various other serious cutbacks are taking place. On the national level, whatever subsidies and other goodies are in a final bill will likely be cut in future deficit-slashing politics.

    Parent
    I'm all for judging against (5.00 / 8) (#4)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 10:50:32 AM EST
    the status quo.  Insurance companies rule now.  They make most of the rules.  They are the referees.  The choice that most of us have is to pay the insurance companies (and hope they'll pay up) or do without.

    If the insurance companies still have all that power or more after the bill is completed, then the bill is an utter failure and should be voted down or vetoed.

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 10:53:02 AM EST
    completely.  

    Parent
    however (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:00:58 AM EST
    I still believe that will not be the outcome.

    Parent
    The bill will be a total failure (none / 0) (#41)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 07:07:20 PM EST
    if the control isn't reversed.

    I want to see a flat administrative/servicing fee from the premiums for the private insurance companies to wisely use to process the claims timely and accurately. This idea that first they tell us how much we have to pay them to have insurance and then they tell us what little bit they are going to filter into medical bills while they funnel what they want into their own pockets.

    These private carriers have many departments staffed with well-paid fluff. They spend more on branded give-aways for company employees than it would cost to pay for numerous medical procedures. Dump their over-staffed PR depts, marketing depts, those doctors and nurses who just say "NO", and multiple other unnecessary depts.


    Parent

    What each and every proposal currently (5.00 / 7) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 10:58:05 AM EST
    under consideration by Congress does is expand the insurance industry's market share. The status quo is that the industry is extremely powerful and spends hugh amounts of money to prevent real people from receiving good quality, affordable health CARE. Giving them more money and more power does not IMO change the status quo in a positive way.


    Well (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:09:15 AM EST
    in his really, really amazing piece, "Who Needs A Public Option" Yglesias argues that pumping more money into the insurance companies would be "the greatest piece of liberal legislation in years."

    All versions of health insurance reform before Congress would offer a three-fold fix to this. First, force insurers to offer a defined set of benefits to all comers at a fixed price--no discrimination based on gender, health status, whatever. Second, fix the adverse-selection problem this causes by mandating that everyone get themselves some health insurance. Third, to fix the economic hardship this might apply to some families, offer generous subsidies to ensure affordability for all.

    This would, if done correctly, more-or-less solve the problem of the uninsured.

    That just seems insanely stupid to me.  Americans are going to be happy when forced to hand money to insurance companies?  When the tax structure is changed so we can hand money to insurance companies?  Are you kidding me???

    Parent

    It says nothing (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:11:55 PM EST
    about the insurance companies paying up.  If I buy an insurance policy (ignoring any pre-existing condition, et cetera) and I have co pays for everything, ridiculous deductibles and so on - then how does this save me any money and most importantly, how does this deliver health care?

    Right now, before you even schedule an appointment with a doctor, they want to know how they'll be paid.  A lot of offices will tell you that they don't accept certain insurance policies.  If we all have to have health insurance, but are told by actual health care providers that they consider Insurance X the same as being self paid - have we really increased access to health care?

    Parent

    "Progressives" are all about... (5.00 / 8) (#8)
    by lambert on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:05:38 AM EST
    declaring victory, rather than victory. As the Triple-A league for The Show of Democratic Strategerists, their focus is on the mid-terms, rather than actual policy results.

    Senator Kennedy on Medicare for All. A bill that did this:

    The bill was amazing in its simplicity: every 2 years (or, in another version of the bill, every 5 years) the eligibility for Medicare was lowered by 10 years (and raised from below by 10 years), with those under 65 being asked to check a box on their taxes if they signed up for Medicare (to be charged for it). It's a great model for the public option, and makes the argument for a public option easier.

    Would be a fitting memorial, yes? I'd expect to see this argument made all over the A list, since the story hook is so easy and obvious. But n-o-o-o-o.

    I'll do it (5.00 / 8) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:06:48 AM EST
    Even though I am no A-Lister.

    Parent
    The point of reform (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:47:36 AM EST
    is to change the status quo because some part or all of it is not working as it should.  The current SQ is that millions of people cannot afford the care they need, and that includes those who do have insurance as well as those who do not.  

    What do we want the new SQ to be?  Do we want to make CARE more affordable, so that more people can access it without going broke, and if so, how do we do that?  Do we want to be a nation that does not see the connection between a healthy populace and a healthy economy, or do we want to have the dubious distinction of being the largest developed nation where economic status and ability to pay determine access to health care?  Is it small-d democratic to have policies that are encouraging the consolidation of wealth in a small percentage of people, while growing an impoverished underclass that will continue to drag the economy down?  What good is it to give people the right to vote and to speak if, in the end, their votes do not matter and their voices are not heard because the corporate class is controlling those responsible for legislation and policy?  Where is the tipping point for widespread rebellion fueled by anger, and must we get there before substantive change results?

    In the current SQ, it is the insurance companies who are an impediment to affordable access, so how do we go about changing that?  Those of us with insurance are paying out-of-pocket before we ever incur any actual medical expense, so if that initial cost is too burdensome, one of two things will happen: people will decide not to get or keep insurance coverage and will make do with minimal access to care, all the while praying nothing catastrophic happens to them, or they will pay the premiums because they are not willing to risk not having coverage if something catastrophic happens, but in the meantime, they will skimp on actual care because they cannot afford the deductibles and co-pays.  

    Insurance companies are in business to make money, and they want to do that as profitably as possible.  That's the model, so we cannot and should not expect these companies to sacrifice profits for the public good on their own.  Guaranteeing them premiums for every single American is not going to encourage them in that regard, either - why would it?  Regulating them is and always will be an exercise in whack-a-mole: close off one avenue of profitability and the backrooms will be filled with people tasked at finding new ones, and they will always be one step ahead of regulatory oversight, which is slow and cumbersome and not retroactive - which means that it never helps those who got burned by questionable tactics, only those from that point forward.

    Do we put the insurance companies out of business, or do we allow them to exist, but implement a public option that will force them to decide if they are willing to sacrifice seven-figure salaries and bonuses for the privilege of staying in business?  

    I do not profess to know why people like Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias believe that with each passing day, and the further eroding of anything that ever resembled reform, we are supposed to be happy that there are a few stinking crumbs on the plate, but I am getting tired of these cheerleaders of "Hey! It's better than nothing!"  How more people do not realize that what's going on is we're being pi$$ed on big-time and these guys are tasked with convincing us it's raining, I couldn't tell you.

    Why? (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by cal1942 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 12:22:59 PM EST
    In part at least, because pundits are loathe to admit that they were wrong.  As backers of Obama during the primaries they can't admit that the party chose the wrong candidate.

    For me that answers the rest of it.  The posts and articles are trying to convince liberals that whatever piece of junk Obama signs will represent significant reform that one and all should cheer.

    Parent

    cal, this is what happens when the (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:18:20 PM EST
    cult of personality is what drives an election, and the media and bloggers get so stuck on it and invested in it that they only see issues and policy through that very distorted lens.

    I have pretty much stopped watching the news, except for sports and weather, because it's such a waste of time.  Last night, I inadvertently - because my husband turned the TV on in the family room while I was making dinner - was treated to Andrea Mitchell blathering on about Dick Cheney's reaction to the CIA investigation, and then, later, they spent more time on a story about a hotel where passersby can see people inside in various states of undress and activity (!) than they did on health care, the war in Afghanistan or Ben Bernanke.  Mitchell couldn't get her facts straight if her life depended on it.

    I don't see it changing much, sadly, and blogs that used to be alternative sources of information have been annexed by the very Village they came into being to be different than.  The problem with Ezra and Yglesias is that they ARE the mainstream, and fully on board with the culture that gives us the garbage we see on the TV.

    Fewer and fewer ports in this storm.

    Parent

    Great comment Anne (none / 0) (#40)
    by cal1942 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 04:30:50 PM EST
    I agree 100%, my observation as well.

    Just a note; I believe Andrea Mitchell should have "re-assigned" when she married Greenspan.  I only mention this because she is particularly irritating for the reasons you cited and her union with that public figure makes her, IMO, sleaze.

    Unfortunately she's not the only Village media person involved in a compromising relationship.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#24)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 12:54:19 PM EST
    Most people who have been involved in politics longer than the past eight years know that these types of changes are a process.  The difference between them and some other people is they see the bigger picture.  

    Few people I've met are trying to justify a particular candidate.  The only people I really see pushing that particular position are those people that had a strong preference for another candidate (Hillary Clinton).  That's honestly about it.  It still looks like sour grapes to me, if anything.  If Obama had passed Hillary's proposal verbatim (if a verbatim draft had existed) he would have been accused of stealing the hard work she did by these same people.

    If you don't like the health care bill when it passes, that's fine.  I'm withholding judgment until I see it.  But I'm going to judge it on its own merits.  Not some preconceived idea of who I think should have drafted it to begin with.

    Parent

    Ahh (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:02:06 PM EST
    That explains it.

    What a hilarious comment.

    Parent

    Laugh at it... (none / 0) (#26)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:10:38 PM EST
    but don't counter it.  Of course if my name was Hillary it would be gospel, would it not?

    I just find it so curious that everyone seems to think Hillary would be this incredible fighter with incredible insight and tenacity, when she couldn't win a primary where she was the overwhelming favorite.  Her supporters seem to think the Democratic party wronged her, as if the the Republicans would treat her fairly.  That her ability to scrap would allow her to win anything -- except a primary.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there doesn't exist someone better to push the legislation than Obama.  But Hillary, c'mon?  And that's one of the things that makes me chuckle.  If you're going to elevate someone, at least elevate someone for which there's a strong argument.  Otherwise it really does sound like sour grapes... no other way to put it.

    Parent

    Gospel to who? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:13:30 PM EST
    Only fools trust pols.

    Mirror, consider using one.

    Parent

    What are you talking about? (none / 0) (#31)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:21:06 PM EST
    I'm not the one saying that there is ANY heavenly person who would make all good things happen.  

    Take a look at the comments.  If you are so blind that you can't see it, then you're either ignorant, blind, or dumb.  I'd hope you're none of the three.  But I'm not the one writing the posts that constantly talk about how Jesus, I mean Hillary, would turn water to wine.

    Parent

    No, you're the one who is taking (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:40:07 PM EST
    a comment that posits that pundits are too proud to admit they were wrong about Obama and turning it into permission to dump as many anti-Hillary insults as you can into every comment you make.

    No one's compared Hillary to Jesus or any other heavenly creature, only suggested that whatever wonders pundits and others thought Obama was going to perform, he has not lived up to his billing.  Rather than call him on it, or push him to more honest positions, these guys are contorting themselves into ridiculous positions in order to make people think things aren't as bad as they are.

    Arguing that someone else would have been just as bad, or not any better, just avoids the essential truth that the person who does have the job is still accountable for his performance; piling on the gratuitous Hillary-bashing still does not elevate Obama to Grade-A performance.

    Parent

    Wrong... (none / 0) (#39)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:57:50 PM EST
    If it was simply that Obama wasn't doing the job, that would be one thing.  It's the constant, "we picked the wrong candidate".  

    You're absolutely right that we should look at the job Obama is doing.  The comparisons to a mythical person who is not in the role is fruitless and useless.  

    So it appears you're in agreement with me.

    Parent

    Just the ones (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:37:14 PM EST
    telling me how Obama is doing all he can.

    Same difference.

    Again, mirror, look at it.

    Parent

    You must be talking to someone else... (none / 0) (#38)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:54:31 PM EST
    I don't know if he doing all he can, or if the best he can do is even good enough.  All I say is judge the bill on the bill.  I don't care if Obama, Kennedy, Clinton, or McCain draft it.  I can read it and make up my mind.

    And I further don't go on about how if person X was here life would be different.  Things are rarely that simple.

    Parent

    sometimes laughter (none / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:14:00 PM EST
    is the only reasonable response to your comments.

    Parent
    And clearly... (none / 0) (#32)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:25:20 PM EST
    a response is another one, as you've just shown.  Sorry I don't subscribe to the Hillary is the God who can't win a primary, but can do everything else cult.  And since she couldn't win a primary everything else bad that happens in this world is due to that.  

    More dead in Iraq?  Wouldn't have happened if Hillary won the primary?

    Health care reform problem?  With Hillary would have been signed a few seconds after taking the oath.

    Ted Kennedy passing away?  If Hillary didn't save him, she would just raise him from the dead.

    But that darn primay!  Godlike powers only can take you so far ya know.

    Capt Howdy, now I know you got a laugh out of that post.  :-)

    Parent

    just for you (none / 0) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:30:09 PM EST
    I will repost this from another thread:

    (as Hills biggest fan)

    I am completely comfortable thinking that this endeavor would have been even more star crossed if Hillary was in charge.  the republicans would have started the match on third base because Hillary would have been fighting both the crazy right wing AND the msm as they hurried to give even more credence to their lunatic ravings than they have been with Obama because of their uniform unreasoned hatred of anything Clinton.

    Parent

    Why did you even post that? (none / 0) (#35)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:36:31 PM EST
    Clearly someone was bringing it up.  It's absurd that it comes up so often.  

    Parent
    I think they're not saying it will be a triumph (none / 0) (#12)
    by BigElephant on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:19:13 AM EST
    but rather that it might be.  And to not judge whatever it is by the compromises, but they day before/after status.  In other words, I think they're largely just saying hold off judgment.  In the same way you're saying that we don't know if this will be a triumph, many on the left are already saying it is a failure.  I think they are simply saying to hold off judgment.

    Reaganomic's (none / 0) (#13)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:20:33 AM EST
    American's are still upset over the stimulus bill that did nothing but stuff the coffers of the banks. If any Democrat thinks a HCR bill that is tilted to big business will go over with the voters, they don't deserve to be in DC. The final bill better address the needs of the many as opposed to the greed of a few.

    When will Democrat's finally accept that Reagan's "trickle economy" doesn't work. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

    And yes (none / 0) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24:42 AM EST
    talk about trickle.  Instead of the wealth being dispersed to the top across industries, it is concentrated into one industry so it barely trickles....really scary.

    Parent
    this is great (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:26:19 AM EST
    this is the headline from HotAir:

    Lefties not even waiting until the body is cold.

    linking to this:

    Kennedy's Death Spurs Calls to Pass Health Legislation

    like I said earlier I really think Teds death could become a pivotal event in this struggle.

    Or maybe... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by sj on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 01:29:05 PM EST
    ... it will just be used to as a hammer to force us to accept this (most likely -- I haven't seen the bill either) Giant-Gift-to-the-Insurance-companies-that-doesn't-address-health-care.

    Why is it "they" not only want to give us garbage, but also want us to be grateful for it?

    Parent

    I wouldn't mind (none / 0) (#19)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:46:49 AM EST
    seeing HCR proponents using the memory of Ted to win passage, just as the 1964 CR bill's proponents, including Pres Johnson, drew overtly on the memory of passing it as a tribute to JFK who had introduced the bill a year earlier.

    It would be politically stupid not to do so, in fact.

    Parent

    absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:47:54 AM EST
    and Teddy would probably be pleased

    Parent
    oy (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:33:14 AM EST
    I vote for Matthews as imbecile (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:38:20 AM EST
    of the year. In fact, that might be an insult to imbeciles.

    Parent
    I second the motion (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by coast on Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 11:44:35 AM EST
    Right retort - "well we haven't seen a birth certificate yet, so who knows" ;)

    Parent