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Late Night: No Surrender

Who's giving up on the public option? Not us.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    No Surrender, indeed (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by ap in avl on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:15:08 PM EST
    I've sent e-mails and made phone calls to all my congress critters, the WH, and every Democratic  organization I have contacts for every day for many days now......demanding a robust public option ONLY as a compromise to single payer.

    I am not hopeful, but I will do my part as a citizen.

    As a sentient human being, I am disgusted and demoralized.

    But I will never surrender.

    Great choice with Bruce, btw.  If only he were our president.....

    I've seen him live 3 times this year.  One of those rare individuals who despite their wealth and status can still identify with the struggles of ordinary citizens just trying to do the best they can to keep their heads above water everyday....

    I'm seeing him on Sept. 12 (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:03:12 AM EST
    How is the show this year? It is in a smaller venue than last year, so I was wondering what configuration of the band is with him. Can't wait!

    Parent
    Full E Street Band and more (none / 0) (#34)
    by ap in avl on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:49:45 AM EST
    He's added a wonderful violinist who is featured on several numbers.  Nice touch.  The stage setup allows full views from every seat - no obstructions.

    He takes requests from the audience.  If you have a favorite and are close enough to the stage make sure you take a handmade sign.

    When I saw him outdoors at the Bonnaroo Festival (after a day of sweltering heat), he even took a request for "Santa Claus is Coming to Town".

    It's a great show.  Enjoy!

    Parent

    Promising sounding article in WSJ (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by magster on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:27:27 PM EST
    about Dems strategizing to split up the health care bill so that the public option passes by reconciliation because it relates to the budget, while the other stuff passes by the usual method that wouldn't pass reconciliation rules.

    Sounds like the Dems are actually trying to play two dimensional chess.

    I can't see Blue Dogs (none / 0) (#9)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:43:12 PM EST
    Voting for a separate public option bill.  Getting even 51 might be difficult.  Too many Blue Dogs won't want to be seen as voting for a public option without more cover.  

    I hope that I'm wrong on that.  

    Parent

    Hmm. Dicey strategy, IMO. (none / 0) (#10)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:44:30 PM EST
    I just read through the CBO report on HR3200, and how their conclusion is that it would increase the size of the federal budget deficit by $239 billion. Dems are going to have to counteract that conclusion or the public option goes nowhere, based on cost/savings alone.

    Parent
    Tomatoes (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 12:43:19 AM EST
    Finally got a nice stretch of hot, dry weather here, and the tomatoes that have ripened during it are vastly more flavorful than the early ones that tepidly came of age during the cool, overcast weather.

    But although I haven't (yet) been hit with the dread Late Blight, I do have I think a combination of Early Blight and another fungus called Septoria Leaf Spot that's steadily taking down my plants.

    Faced with the second year in a row of murder of the bulk of my tomato crop, my organic self finally gave in and bought some actual chemical fungicide and sprayed it on my plants this afternoon, in hopes it will delay the progress long enough to get more than a handful of fruit from my 16 plants, but I'm not optimistic.

    Anybody else got a home garden report?

    Boy, can I commiserate. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 01:05:54 AM EST
    I have four tomato plants and only one (the golden cherries) did well this year. It's sad  because I had such a great crop last year -- tomatoes coming out of my ears. And I was so excited to finally try the Momotaros (which are just about to get ripe so... we'll see). I hate to cast aspersions, but because my plants were doing so beautifully before I left for vacation, I am zeroing in on my neighbor who was supposedly taking care of the garden in my absence. She finally admitted to killing some of the lettuces by way of water abandonment in blazing hot weather. The tomatoes didn't get blight, but something very mysterious disappeared the leaves on the Roma. Heartbreaking.

    The saving grace: my flower beds are beautiful, lush and  thriving! In the end, that's what really matters to me, since I need to see all those lovely colors when I walk outside in the morning. And late afternoon cocktail hour out there has been quite the hit this summer.

    Parent

    Sympathies, Shoe! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 01:18:08 AM EST
    Where are you in the country?

    What do you mean by "something very mysterious" having done in your Romas?

    Here in the NE, the weather has been ultra-conducive to every one of the many pathogens that affect tomatoes, from the quickly murderous Late Blight right on down to the prosaic Powderly Mildew.  It's very hard for the non-expert to identify which of these things is affecting the plants, but most of them follow the same course and have the same partially effective remedies.

    It does seem unlikely to me that insufficient watering over a couple of weeks would completely do in your Romas, though it very well might kill your lettuces, which are less happy in hot weather.

    BTW, try San Marzano or Amish Paste next year instead of the Romas.  The San Marzanos are vastly more flavorful, and the Amish paste are huge and have almost no seeds/gel, which makes for much more successful sauce.

    Parent

    Western Washington (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 01:59:56 AM EST
    I'm sure The Case of the Disappearing Leaves sounds strange. All I know is, two days after I got back from vacation the Roma plant started losing its leaves. There wasn't any obvious powdery mildew or black spots on them, they just started turning brown and falling off. Over the next three weeks the plant withered to a figment of its former self, at which point I accepted that it was near death. The neighborhood nursery recommended a seaweed extract and it saved the plant, but kept it in stasis until two weeks ago when it finally started getting a bit of ripe fruit.

    My Early Girls crop was the worst I've ever had. They weren't early, for one thing. The fruit is just now getting ripe and it's flavorless.

    A good friend of mine emailed me today to say her tomatoes are not producing much either. It's a mystery! But we have had an extremely hot summer. Two weeks ago it hit 103 degrees, a new record.

    I read in the NYT a few days ago about how awful the east coast rain has been for tomato farmers this summer. Apparently, there was a fungus in the tomato starts from one particular grower, and it spreads from yard to yard. Do yours have that? Growing from seed is the key, but it takes more time and faith.

    I will say, that seaweed extract is good stuff.

    San Marzanos. I've heard those are very nice!

    Parent

    Yes, Late Blight (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:28:11 AM EST
    is the name of the fungus we've been afflicted with this year, but fingers crossed, not my plants so far.

    It arrived in shipments of infected plants from a specific large-scale grower in Alabama who supplies plants to big box stores like Home Depot and supermarkets, hardware stores, etc.  By the time it was recognized and the plants confiscated and destroyed by Ag officials, thousands of the little buggers had been taken home and planted in backyard gardens all over the NE, from which it has spread widely on the wind.  In some hard-hit parts of the region, there isn't a tomato plant left alive for miles.  It moves with lightning speed, too, with entire fields killed off within days of the first signs of its presence.

    Google "Late Blight" and read the horror stories and see some pix.

    I get my plants from the superb organic grower in my town.  After this episode, I would never be tempted to buy from anything else.  But this has spread so far and wide now, it could hit anybody any day with spores blown in on the wind.

    I've quit growing the standard hybrids like Early Girl and Big Boy and my once beloved Celebrity because they've all been bought up by Monsanto, which I consider one of the most evil and destructive corporations in the world.  I do exclusively heirloom and older varieties now, which my grower has in great variety.  I have mostly Brandywines, an old Rutgers-developed variety called Ramapo, and something called Bonny Best, which I've liked a lot.  Also the Marzanos and the Amish paste.

    FYI, here are a couple of very helpful sites for tomato growers.

    Tomato problem solver

    Tomatoville


    Parent

    Worse news. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Fabian on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 10:24:14 AM EST
    Plants in the same family like nightshade also can be affected and thus spread the fungus.

    Anyone not have nightshade in their area?

    (An educational note:  A common perennial nightshade is from Europe, not a native weed at all!  The Americas have many native nightshades, as well as other in the same family - tomato, potato, peppers.)

    Parent

    Thanks for those links! (none / 0) (#43)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 06:32:25 PM EST
    You do realize that you have given me another excuse for staying on the computer into the wee hours, right?

    I think my Roma had this problem.

    Parent

    Ugh (none / 0) (#44)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 01:33:10 AM EST
    Well, at least it sounds like it won't affect the fruit.

    Because of the fear of Late Blight and the horrible weather that's fostered all these less rapidly devastating disease, we gardeners in the NE have been scouring the Web for info this year, so those two sites have turned out to be most useful.

    Parent

    We cleared the backyard very well (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 08:37:10 AM EST
    last month.  We live on a wooded lot in the South so we have to clear yearly or it would become a jungle.  Since husband is leaving for awhile, we did something that we noticed others do here with wooded areas and we did a small ground burn to discourage weeds and such.  I walked around there yesterday and the poison ivy likes those little burns....I have baby plants all over the place.

    Parent
    Someone likes home grown (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Fabian on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:16:09 AM EST
    tomatoes!

    My son has been looking for any tomato showing color, picking them and eating them.

    It's only his first year, so he doesn't know any better.  For instance, the actual gardener should get some of the crop.  Secondly, tomatoes taste better when they are fully ripe, not a little ripe.  We only have three plants, so there's not a huge supply.

    OTOH - the plants are doing well, disease free, pest free, setting fruit well, no cracking, cat facing or blossom end rot.

    Principe Borghese is my pseudo paste tomato.  Smaller than Roma types and while on the dry side, not "crunchy".  You can eat them fresh, but their intended use is for dried tomatoes.  I only did that once.  I call them "salsa tomatoes" because they are firm enough to dice without turning into mush, but aren't at all seedy.  You can cook them like paste tomatoes as well.

    Parent

    Patio tomatoes quality report, please (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:49:38 AM EST
    Have you eaten any yet? How do they compare with regular home grown in taste and texture?

    Parent
    Still waiting... (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Fabian on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 10:18:09 AM EST
    They are pokey!  Hopefully I can snag the first one before my second grader eats it.  

    Such a difference in plant habit though!  The other two have escaped the cages and are attempting to sprawl outwards.  They'd be over four feet tall if I staked them.  The patio plant is still firmly upright and hasn't topped 30 inches yet.

    Parent

    Kennedy (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 07:22:16 AM EST
    Wants a quick succession to his seat - wants the governor to temporarily be able to appoint someone while they wait for a special election.

    Senator Edward M. Kennedy, in a poignant acknowledgment of his mortality at a critical time in the national health care debate, has privately asked the governor and legislative leaders to change the succession law to guarantee that Massachusetts will not lack a Senate vote when his seat becomes vacant.

    In a personal, sometimes wistful letter sent Tuesday to Governor Deval L. Patrick, Senate President Therese Murray, and House Speaker Robert A. DeLeo, Kennedy asks that Patrick be given authority to appoint someone to the seat temporarily before voters choose a new senator in a special election.

    Although Kennedy, who is battling brain cancer, does not specifically mention his illness or the health care debate raging in Washington, the implication of his letter is clear: He is trying to make sure that the leading cause in his life, better health coverage for all, advances in the event of his death.

    In his letter, which was obtained by the Globe, Kennedy said that he backs the current succession law, enacted in 2004, which gives voters the power to fill a US Senate vacancy. But he said the state and country need two Massachusetts senators.

    "I strongly support that law and the principle that the people should elect their senator,'' Kennedy wrote. "I also believe it is vital for this Commonwealth to have two voices speaking for the needs of its citizens and two votes in the Senate during the approximately five months between a vacancy and an election.''

    SNIP

    Kennedy advisers were adamant yesterday that the timing of the letter did not reflect any imminent emergency in the health of the senator, who has been battling brain cancer since May 2008. Rather, it was sent this week after the Globe began making inquiries to key Beacon Hill officials over murmurings that some politicians were pushing for a change in the law.

    Kennedy aides said the senator never liked the five-month vacancy created by the 2004 law, but his dislike took on new urgency because Senate Democrats could need every vote possible on health care legislation.

    The family confidant stressed that even with his deteriorating health, Kennedy continues to speak with staff and Senate colleagues. If his vote were needed, there exists every possibility he would fly to Washington again to cast it, Kennedy allies said.

    I know this is politics, but if it's not ok for one governor to have that power, then it shouldn't be ok for the next.  

    two things (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by CST on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:03:05 AM EST
    1 - Elections have consequences.  Even the elections of legislatures.  I see no problem with changing the law based on who is governer, especially since that most likely goes along with the wishes of the citizens - which is the whole point of representative government.

    2 - There is a big difference between appointing a temporary replacement for a few months until a special election can be held, and giving someone the seat.

    3 - Kennedy is absolutely right.  We should have full representation in the senate, and an elected senator.  I think this is a good compromise.

    Parent

    it's really sad (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CST on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:03:25 AM EST
    that I can't count to three.  Gah!

    Parent
    Thanks very much (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 09:33:20 AM EST
    for posting this! So much for the crap about "Kennedy's ego" in some of the previous threads.  I'm really, really relieved to hear he's still functioning and perhaps not quite as close to death as we've assumed.

    Parent
    Interesting poll on "birthers" (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 08:06:19 AM EST
    (shakes head )

    From PPP:

    After we conducted polls over the last couple of weeks finding significant numbers of 'birthers' in North Carolina and Virginia, we decided to take the question national but also drum down more specifically on where exactly the people who think Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States do think he's from.

    The answer is that 62% of Americans think Obama was born here, while 24% think he was not and 14% are unsure.

    10% of the country thinks that he was born in Indonesia, 7% think he was born in Kenya, and 1% think he was born in the Philippines.

    That leaves 20%, which includes at least some people who correctly believe that Obama was born in Hawaii, but who don't consider Hawaii to be part of the United States. You read that right- 6% of poll respondents think that Hawaii is not part of the country and 4% are unsure.

    It's hard to say what the rest of that 20% thinks. We did ask them if they thought Obama was born in France and while less than half a percent of respondents did, two thirds of that remaining 20% said they 'weren't sure' whether Obama was a Frenchman.

    So who are the birthers?

    -62% are Republicans, 20% are Democrats, and 18% are independents
    -57% are conservatives, 33% are moderates, and 9% are liberals
    -56% are men, 44% are women
    -86% are white, 7% are Hispanic, 4% are black, and 3% are other races



    Well, some Hawaiians (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 08:57:12 AM EST
    don't think that Hawaii is part of the country, either.  Not legally, since our government allowed and encouraged the corporate-sponsored coup that deposed Hawaii's lawful ruler, its queen, and stole the lovely isles for us.

    So maybe Hawaiians are among that 6 percent!

    Parent

    Double Top Chef tonight (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:08:06 PM EST
    all waiting for me on my DVR.

    Cook for me (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:18:03 PM EST
    I would have loved to try (none / 0) (#6)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:22:48 PM EST
    their final dishes on TCM. Enjoy the shows!

    Parent
    Just watched that one first (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 11:14:23 PM EST
    I was really pleased with just about everything.

    Parent
    Glad Bayless won, although (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 08:22:39 AM EST
    I would not have been upset had it gone another way.

    That Oaxacan mole sauce must be something else, indeed; Bayless makes me want to try my hand at Mexican foods beyond tacos and tortillas!

    Parent

    Top Chef (none / 0) (#3)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:15:56 PM EST
    Couple of sexists revealed themselves early. Within the first 20. {sigh}

    Oh and NOT giving up on the public option. My Rep is on board with the no option, no bill (and is head of the Hispanic caucus), as are a few other NY reps. I'll be keeping on them. Looks like a fair amount of CA Reps have stepped up also. Let's hear it for the big blue states . . .

    As a Vermonter (none / 0) (#12)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 12:36:36 AM EST
    I'm on board with that!

    Parent
    WIth three cheftestants from (none / 0) (#24)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 08:26:08 AM EST
    Maryland - although one of the Voltaggio brothers is in California now - this is going to be an interesting competition for me.

    I was more fascinated with the tattoos and the piercings - seems like a lot of ink and metal this round!

    I have a feeling that some of the sexist contenders are going to get a reality check pretty soon...

    Parent

    From Gail Simmons' blog (none / 0) (#41)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 01:29:21 PM EST
    at Bravo TV.com (my emphasis):

    Side note: I want to reiterate that as judges we do not see any of the interviews, kitchen antics, or behind-the-scenes footage of the chefs in action while we are shooting the show. Our producers are quite strict about this to deter us from developing any opinions about or relationships with the cheftestants other than through the food we are served, and rightfully so. With that in mind, I was shocked and disappointed when I recently viewed this first episode and heard Mike Isabella's sexist commentary. Hot-tempered and foulmouthed indeed. He may have cooked us a delicious dish, but his attitude left a bad taste in my mouth. For better or worse, my feelings about each chef's personality will stay out of the kitchen and away from the Judges' Table. But would I have judged him differently had I seen this side of him in advance? I guess we will never know ....

    I knew I liked her!


    Parent

    I'm in (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:19:06 PM EST


    Chalk me up (none / 0) (#8)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:39:03 PM EST
    I'm not at all convinced that Conrad's head fake on co-ops should even be entertained. But I find it curious that after the media and a very small minority of politicians have been touting the only co-ops in the country -- Group Health (Seattle) and Health Partners (Minnesota) -- as great successes, no one has gotten the bright idea to actually interview the people who have run those co-ops to see what they think about the chances of them succeeding at a regional or national level. Doesn't anyone want to ask them if they think it would even reduce costs and deliver better care to more Americans?

    Here's my request of Jeralyn and BTD:

    Try to contact Scott Armstrong, the current president and CEO of Group Health, and either Steve Wiggins or Chuck Berg, the founders of Health Partners. Ask them some serious questions about this. Post the results of those interviews here.

    I, personally, would find it very enlightening.

    No media (none / 0) (#13)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 12:38:08 AM EST
    anymore in this country, both by inclination and by budget.  You're totally right.  It's a no-brainer to talk to those people.  I ain't holding my breath, though.

    Parent
    E-mail alert from NY Times (none / 0) (#18)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 05:25:46 AM EST
    The Central Intelligence Agency in 2004 hired outside contractors from the private security contractor Blackwater USA as part of a secret program to locate and assassinate top
    operatives of Al Qaeda, according to current and former government officials.

    The C.I.A. spent several millions dollars on the program, which did not capture or kill any terrorist suspects.

    No wonder there's no money for health care. I get really upset when I hear politicians ranting about fiscal reponsibility when they've allowed this type of waste to go on year after year.

    Whatever else you may think of (none / 0) (#19)
    by weltec2 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 05:45:08 AM EST
    Keith Olberman because of the way he trashed Hillary during the election... he has been working overtime on HRC. We've got to give him that.

    Excuse me... (none / 0) (#20)
    by weltec2 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 05:46:47 AM EST
    make that HCR... Health Care Reform. I told you I was going cross-eyed.

    Parent
    Plaxico Burres pleads guilty (none / 0) (#36)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 10:22:29 AM EST
    Agrees to a 2-year prison term.

    Via CNN-SI

    The ex-wide receiver pleaded guilty to one count of attempted criminal possession of a weapon, a lesser charge than he initially faced. Under a plea agreement, he agreed to a two-year prison sentence and two years of supervised release.


    looks as if April 2011 (none / 0) (#38)
    by Bemused on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 11:32:26 AM EST
      is his earliest possible release date. We know Vick is still considered worth a shot. will burris be?

      I can't agree with his attorney that it's "not an intentional criminal act" but that is a pretty steep penalty for a gun possession case where the person is not even a felon.

       Is Manhattan really insistent upon that in all cases where it's a non-felon and no reason to believe the gun was possessed to further any other criminal activirty or enterprise?

    Parent

    2 years in a cage?... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 11:50:06 AM EST
    Good god our society is insane.

    Plax's lawyers must have been convinced he woulda got 3 1/2 tyrannical years if he took a chance at trial...I mighta rolled the dice on a sympathetic jury myself, if there is such a thing left in "hang 'em high" America.

    Parent

    I'm not familar with NY statutes (none / 0) (#40)
    by Bemused on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 12:24:03 PM EST
     but the article suggests 3 1/2 is a mandatory minimum for the unlawful possession count which he pled away be taking the attempt conviction.

      In the absence of a jury nullification verdict, it looked pretty bleak as there seems little question he possessed at the club the gun and was not a person permitted to do so. The chances of having 12 people who would unanimously agree to acquit despite the law all onthe same jury at the same time are not favorable. He was far from universally popular even among Giants fans and the pro-gun-sentiment in NYC is a lot less widespread than in much of the country.

      Maybe the Manhattan DA's office does consistently demand such sentences, but I have to suspect he was made an example unless I see proof of that.

      A felony conviction-- which would make it unlawful for him ever to again possess a firearm under federal law--  coupled with a stiff fine, community service, probation with conditions  including home detention or even some offsason time in jail would seem more approriate to me.

      But; it's not as if Morgantheua is running again  or that he would need this if he was, so I don't know.

     

    Parent

    Tata in Europe (none / 0) (#42)
    by waldenpond on Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 01:53:21 PM EST
    in response to the car thread in the other post... Tata Nano has passed Europe's regulations.  The car is expected to cost $3800 US, so it looks like it will make it to market before the original expected date of 2012.  I have no idea how similar the regulations are to the US... but it would put more cars on the streets.