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Iran's Abuse of Post-Election Detainees

Very ugly reports are coming out about the treatment of detainees in Iran after the election.

Some prisoners say they watched fellow detainees being beaten to death by guards, in overcrowded, stinking holding pens. Others said they had their fingernails ripped off, or were forced to lick filthy toilet bowls.

....More bruised corpses have been returned to families in recent days, and some hospital officials told human rights workers they have seen evidence that well over 100 protesters have been killed since the elections.

The article contains links to the sites where you can read the personal stories. The Times says some of the sites have been reliable in the past.

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  • Display: Sort:
    The news is painful but (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:14:25 PM EST
    it's great that the truth of Iranian detainee abuse is getting out to the world. Hopefully, other nations (including us) will pressure the Amadenijad regime to rethink these reprehensible practices

    For me, knowledge of the Iranian situation highlights the fact that we are still being actively denied knowledge of our own government's actions. We need, and deserve, full disclosure of what was done in our name, via our tax dollars.

    So, Mr. President please allow us to see the reports, and photos, of Iraqi detainee abuse.  

    twist it to America's fault (none / 0) (#23)
    by diogenes on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 04:52:49 PM EST
    Iran has tortured and killed assorted corpses as per this story, and the response is only a call for Americans to release GITMO and Abu Ghraib photos?  
    Is the Iran mess somehow our fault too?

    [ Parent ]
    The present conditions, no (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 05:51:48 PM EST
    however if Obama had responded stronger in the beginning of the election protests, as many conservatives and social liberals suggested at that time, and the present conditions were the results, would you like to tell me that such conservatives wouldn't blame Obama for the state of affairs after he took their advice?

    Just blame Carter if you want to take the easy way out.

    [ Parent ]

    Shameful (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:12:55 PM EST
    Iranian authorities on Tuesday freed 140 people detained in street protests over last month's disputed election and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he wanted them all released soon.

    but I would guess that those were the ones that were not bloody and bruised because :

    Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei also ordered a jail closed amid allegations of prisoner abuse

    You would think that if there were no prisoner abuse the jails would be open, if there were obvious abuse the jails would be closed. Logic tells me that the allegations are correct.

    Around 200 people remain in detention, including 50 "politicians, members of anti-revolutionary groups and foreigners" who he said were suspected of masterminding riots.

    [snip]

    The head of Tehran prisons, Sohrab Soleimani, denied that two protesters had died from prison beatings, insisting they had been struck down by meningitis.

    But opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi, Ahmadinejad's closest rival, said that if one of the protesters had died of meningitis, "how come his teeth were broken?"

    AFP


    First reaction. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jacob Freeze on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:35:51 PM EST
    Some prisoners say they watched fellow detainees being beaten to death by guards, in overcrowded, stinking holding pens. Others said they had their fingernails ripped off, or were forced to lick filthy toilet bowls.

    I accidentally looked at that paragraph before I read the title of the article, and of course I thought...

    "More abuse at Guantanamo."

    "Or Abu Ghraib."

    "Or Bagram."

    I invite anyone else to try that out as a thought experiment, and imagine that you read Jerlyn's paragraph without knowing where it came from.

    Wouldn't you immediately think that the abusers were... us.

    We Americans, who formerly lived in "a city on a hill."

    We have seen the enemy and he is us. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:07:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Pogo! (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jacob Freeze on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:33:17 PM EST
    And wouldn't it be great to have Walt Kelly back with us? And he's always worth reading.

    [ Parent ]
    Good one, thanks. (none / 0) (#9)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:19:15 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Nope. Not me. (2.00 / 1) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:03:44 PM EST
    I understand that there were abuses. I also understand that we were investigating the abuses. And that we have done so. And some people have gone to jail.

    That's the difference between us and them.

    To bad we don't have the Shah to blame anymore, eh??

    [ Parent ]

    No, we can blame someone not on our side (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:12:33 PM EST
    this time.

    [ Parent ]
    Meet the new boss (2.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:50:59 PM EST
    just like the old boss, eh?

    Of course the old boss wasn't building nukes, threatening to destroy Israel and exporting terrorism.

    Ah Jimmah Carter. Look what you have done.

    [ Parent ]

    As usual, you manage to mangle (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 11:27:18 PM EST
    things when you consider that it was on the advice of Dr. Kissinger that Carter decided that we have the Shah come here for medical treatment, while my father was of the opinion at that time that we keep him and send his liver back to Iran, which would probably give you something else to b*tch and moan about Carter, as you seem to have nothing but vast resentments about past history when it comes to a Democratic President in the 20th Century.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    You might work on your research skills with the same devotion you demonstrate towards your cliche-filled snark, that it worked when you were a mighty salesman in the telecom industry with your own key to the executive washroom is besides the point.. It might not keep you busy,I wouldn't want to take you away from your catfish fry parties or anything that's really important.

    Of course the old boss wasn't building nukes, threatening to destroy Israel and exporting terrorism.

    True enough, he had a different set of priorities:

    With Iran's great oil wealth, Mohammad Reza Shah became the pre-eminent leader of the Middle East, and self-styled "Guardian" of the Persian Gulf. He became increasingly despotic during the last years of his regime. In the words of a US Embassy dispatch, "The Shah's picture is everywhere. The beginning of all film showings in public theaters presents the Shah in various regal poses accompanied by the strains of the National anthem... The monarch also actively extends his influence to all phases of social affairs...there is hardly any activity or vocation which the Shah or members of his family or his closest friends do not have a direct or at least a symbolic involvement. In the past, he had claimed to take a two party-system seriously and declared "If I were a dictator rather than a constitutional monarch, then I might be tempted to sponsor a single dominant party such as Hitler organized".[24]

    However, by 1975, he abolished the multi-party system of government so that he could rule through a one-party state under the Rastakhiz (Resurrection) Party in autocratic fashion. All Iranians were pressured to join in. The Shah's own words on its justification was; "We must straighten out Iranians' ranks. To do so, we divide them into two categories: those who believe in Monarchy, the constitution and the Six Bahman Revolution and those who don't.... A person who does not enter the new political party and does not believe in the three cardinal principles will have only two choices. He is either an individual who belongs to an illegal organization, or is related to the outlawed Tudeh Party, or in other words a traitor. Such an individual belongs to an Iranian prison, or if he desires he can leave the country tomorrow, without even paying exit fees; he can go anywhere he likes, because he is not Iranian, he has no nation, and his activities are illegal and punishable according to the law".[25] In addition, the Shah had decreed that all Iranian citizens and the few remaining political parties must become part of Rastakhiz.[26]

    ............................................

       

    In 1978 the deepening opposition to the Shah errupted in widespread demonstrations and rioting. SAVAK and the military responded with widespread repression that killed thousands of people. Recognizing that even this level of violence had failed to crush the rebellion, the Shah abdicated the Peacock Throne and departed Iran on 16 January 1979. Despite decades of pervasive surveillance by SAVAK, working closely with CIA, the extent of public opposition to the Shah, and his sudden departure, came as a considerable suprise to the US intelligence community and national leadership. As late as September 28, 1978 the US Defense Intelligence Agency reported that the shah "is expected to remain actively in power over the next ten years." [30]

    Explanations for why the Shah was overthrown include that he was beholden to -- if not a puppet of -- a non-Muslim Western power, (the United States),[31][32] whose alien culture was contaminating that of Iran. Perceptions of oppression, brutality,[33][34] corruption, and extravagance.[33][35] Basic functional failures of the regime have also been blamed -- economic bottlenecks, shortages and inflation; the regime's overly-ambitious economic program;[36] the failure of its security forces to deal with protest and demonstration;[37] the overly centralized royal power structure.[38]

    In October 1971, the Shah celebrated the twenty-five-hundredth anniversary of the Iranian monarchy. The New York Times reported that $100 million was spent.[39] Next to the ruins of Persepolis, the Shah gave orders to build a tent city covering 160 acres (0.65 km2), studded with three huge royal tents and fifty-nine lesser ones arranged in a star-shaped design. French chefs from Maxim's of Paris prepared breast of peacock for royalty and dignitaries around the world, the buildings were decorated by Maison Jansen (the same firm that helped Jacqueline Kennedy redecorate the White House), the guests ate off Limoges porcelain china and drank from Baccarat crystal glasses. This became a major scandal as the contrast between the dazzling elegance of celebration and the misery of the nearby villages was so dramatic that no one could ignore it. Months before the festivities, university students striked in protest. Indeed, the cost was so sufficiently impressive that the Shah forbade his associates to discuss the actual figures.[40][41]

    However the Shah and the supporters of the Shah argue that the celebrations opened new investments in Iran, improved relationships with the other leaders and nations of the world, provided greater recognition of Iran, and kept the history of Iran alive among other different arguments.

    Other actions that are thought to have contributed to his downfall include antagonizing formerly apolitical Iranians -- especially merchants of the bazaars -- with the creation in 1975 of a single party political monopoly (the Rastakhiz Party), with compulsory membership and dues, and general aggressive interference in the political, economic, and religious concerns of people's lives;[42] and the 1976 change from an Islamic calendar to an Imperial calendar, marking the birth of Cyrus as the first day, instead of the flight of the Prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Medina. Overnight, the year changed from 1355 to 2535. [43]

    Some achievements of the shah -- such as broadened education -- had unintended consequences. While school attendance rose (by 1966 the school attendance of urban seven to fourteen year olds was estimated at 75.8%), Iran's labor market could not absorb a high number of educated youth. In 1966 high school graduates had "a higher rate of unemployment than did the illiterate,"[44] and educated unemployed often supported the revolution.

    Didn't you read what that Leftie, terrorist-hugging Secretary of State had to say about the first on your list?

    Speaking on the NBC programme Meet the Press yesterday, Mrs Clinton said that Iran's pursuit of a nuclear weapon was "futile". "What we want to do is to send a message to whoever is making these decisions that, if you're pursuing nuclear weapons for the purpose of intimidating, of projecting your power, we are not going to let that happen," she said.

    Mrs Clinton spoke as America's leading Middle East envoy and a succession of senior officials headed for Jerusalem in an attempt to achieve an Arab-Israeli peace settlement.

    As for the second possibility:

    Clinton promises 'defense umbrella' against Iran

    US secretary of state outlines how her country may cope with nuclear threat - by working to upgrade defense of allies in region

    Reuters
    Published:     07.22.09, 09:19 / Israel News

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton appeared on Wednesday to sketch out how the United States might cope with a nuclear Iran - by arming its neighbors and extending a "defense umbrella" over the region.

    She said crossing the nuclear threshold would not make Iran, which Washington believes is pursuing nuclear weapons, safer or more secure.

    "We will still hold the door open (for talks with Iran) but we also have made it clear that we'll take actions, as I've said time and time again, crippling action, working to upgrade the defense of our partners in the region," she said in a program taped for Thai television during a visit to Bangkok

    As for exporting terrorism, they have the opportunity to extend their ties to their Shiite
    religious brethren in Iraq now that we've helpfully kicked out the Baathist regime under the late unlamented Saddam Hussein's Sunnie buddies and relatives, over similar fears of someone who doesn't like America going nuclear <subliminal>We know where they are</subliminal> and allegations of ties to terrorists which later turned out to be found untrue by the 9/11 Commission.

    To quote the French minister Talleyrand, "This is worse than a crime, it's a blunder."

    If you have any links to recent analysis of the terrorism threat from Iran that's above the tinfoil hat level of cerebration, that would be interesting, hand-waving in the lack of such material is of course, optional on your part.

    Hope I haven't kept you busy tonight!

    TTFN

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:18:56 AM EST
    Was that 10,000 or 20,000 words?

    Wasn't Carter elected because Kissinger was discredited?

    Carter failed to support the Shah because he thought he could talk to anyone and everything would be alright. Stupidity personified.

    Remind you of anyone??

    hahahahaha

    [ Parent ]

    yawn (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:40:41 AM EST
    That you can't even recognize Obama for the OBVIOUSLY corporate-friendly, relatively conservative guy he is, well, it really is amazing.  No nationalzed banks, billions in handouts to CORPORATE fatcats, government money to auto companies while not requiring we actually have a say in running them, continued wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, continuation of many Bush era secrecy policies, real liberals like Krugman marginalized and not listened to, and on and on.

    Hell, even Helen Keller could see and hear the essential conservatism of Obama.

    There isn't a genuine liberal within miles of the White House.  You guys won that battle, bub, you demonized the word liberal to the point of inexistence.  Enjoy.  Although, the only thing more dead than the almost entirely useless Democratic Party is the Republican Party.  So...

    [ Parent ]

    You are right (2.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 11:09:10 AM EST
    I said he was a Marxist/Socialist and the Chinese model looks better and better.

    I am a liberal, your problem is that you think liberals must be against national defense.... But we've had that discussion before.

    [ Parent ]

    PPJ says when he runs out of facts and reasoning (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:31:50 AM EST
    Was that 10,000 or 20,000 words?

    I dunno, Mr. Know-it-all, why don't you take off your shoes and then you won't need anyone's help with counting in the future?

    Oh, that's right, you're a proud Southerner.  In that case, look down at your feet, then you'll have a better chance of being able to count higher than 10 in the future.

    Wasn't Carter elected because Kissinger was discredited?

    No.

    Jimmy Carter ran as an honest reformer who was "untainted" by Washington political scandals,[citation needed] which many voters found attractive in the wake of the Watergate Scandal, which had led to President Richard Nixon's resignation. Ford, although personally unconnected with Watergate, was seen by many as too close to the discredited Nixon administration, especially after Ford granted Nixon a presidential pardon for any crimes he may have committed during his term of office. Ford's pardon of Nixon caused his popularity, as measured by public-opinion polls, to plummet. Ford's refusal to publicly explain his reasons for pardoning Nixon (he would do so in his memoirs several years later), also hurt his image.

    ............................................

    However, Ford also committed a costly blunder in the campaign that halted his momentum. During the second presidential debate on October 6, Ford stumbled when he asserted that "there is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford administration." He added that he did not "believe that the Poles consider themselves dominated by the Soviet Union," and made the same claim with regards to Yugoslavia and Romania.[5] Ford refused to retract his statement for almost a week after the debate. Neo-conservatives, who were becoming increasingly anti-Soviet, were appalled. As a result, Ford's surge stalled and Carter was able to maintain a slight lead in the polls.

    A vice-presidential debate between Robert Dole and Walter Mondale also hurt the Republican ticket when Dole asserted that military unpreparedness on the part of Democratic presidents was responsible for all of the wars the U.S. had fought in the twentieth century. Dole, a World War II veteran, noted that in every twentieth-century war from World War I to the Vietnam War, a Democrat had been President. Dole then pointed out that the number of U.S. casualties in "Democrat wars" was roughly equal to the population of Detroit. Many voters felt that Dole's criticism was unfairly harsh and that his dispassionate delivery made him seem cold.

    Carter failed to support the Shah because he thought he could talk to anyone and everything would be alright.

    ROTFLMFAO!

    Stupidity personified.

    Remind you of anyone??

    hahahahaha

    Yes.

    You won't because, as I have shown time and again, you are wrong.

    Link

    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 06:39:04 AM EST

        cpinva - I keep asking the same question to those who I know are Demos... Let's assume that you guys get the Senate and the House...

    Which means you didn't share that assumption, for starters.

    Do you need more?

    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 01:35:00 PM EST

        I think the Demos are getting worried, and I see some whistling past the graveyard.

    and you quoted this as well, and in another thread on the same day, to boot:

        In the religious demographics, where the Democrats have tried mightily to find some traction, they also have problems. They held a thin lead (5 points) among all Protestants, but now trail by 9. Their ten-point lead among white mainline Protestants has dissipated into a tie. They lead among all Catholic, having lost three points off of an eight-point lead, but non-Hispanic Catholics now favor the GOP by 5 points, a ten-point shift.

    You did have expectations of the midterms, that, to put it mildly, weren't fulfilled.

    Thanks for allowing me to tell the truth about you, PPJ, and clear up any problems you have with remembering what you wrote here 15(now 32) months ago.

    TTFN

    That was 650 words, PPJ, and thanks for playing "how to help me look like a fool merely by using my own words and the truth".

    [ Parent ]

    It's great to have your very own troll (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 11:06:38 AM EST
    I can pull DA's string anytime I want and he will launch thousands of out of context words that show only that he knows everything but understands nothing.

    [ Parent ]
    But I'd find someone else besides you PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 11:55:42 AM EST
    and remember what I told you about using JM's bandwidth to sell your services.

    I can pull DA's string anytime I want and he will launch thousands of out of context words that show only that he knows everything but understands nothing.

    Ah, don't be so jealous, you've had some success in that area as well:

    I am starting to wonder...is Obama native born?

    Indeed. Why?

    You know, when all the "Hussein wasn't born in the US" stuff first came out, I just dismissed it.

    Then when I read a Hillary supporter's blog for a bit I started to wonder...

    And when the PA Democrat filed the suit I said... is this guy a nut, or what?

    Now we have this to consider.

        HONOLULU, Hawaii - Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation - and even several lawsuits - WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal, and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

    I mean what's the deal? Why doesn't Hussein just pick up the phone and have it released?? I mean if he did it would:

    1. Make those who claim he wasn't born here look like fools.

    2. Make people like me who are queasy about him feel better.

    3. Appease a lot of people he will need to have happy with him should he be elected...

    I mean it would be a total win-win.

    Yet he doesn't. And this from a man who people call super intelligent with great judgment.

    And then we have this:

        In Kenya, WND was told by government authorities that all documents concerning Obama were under seal until after the U.S. presidential election on November 4.

    Why?? Why if there isn't information there that says he was born there.

        In a startling development, Obama's Kenyan grandmother has reportedly alleged she witnessed Obama's birth at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

    What happens if he is elected and then it is proven that he wasn't native born? The country would be in turmoil and Biden would become President elect because Hussein wouldn't be qualified, plus he would be guilty of fraud which clearly falls under the high crimes and misdemeanors standard for impeachment.

    Only 336 words, PPJ, to do what I couldn't have done in less than, I dunno, 100?

    But, along with this gem, you do get close to that magic number of 100:

    Happy Something ... New Year? Fox News watching?
    The year ends.

    I'm not much on the "big story" baloney. Most would have said that the stock market crash of 1929 was the story, yet the real story was the "Talkies." From that technological advance came a string of motion pictures that moved and shaped the world as nothing else before or since.

    There were many stories in 1944, yet THE story was the reining in of Patton in favor of Monte's pipe dreams. The result being "The Battle of the Bulge" with 20,000 killed and the Soviet Union being allowed a full share of Germany. God only knows what misery that ultimately caused.

    Later the stories were the defeat of the US in Vietnam by its own Congress but even there we find only a smidgen of truth. Goldwater may have midwifed conservatism and Reagan took it to the altar but it was the Left's antiwar actions that allowed the simmering hatred of them to take a political child and turn him into a man.

    So pardon me if find the stories about the evil Bush and the glorious Hussein both juvenile and boring. Come back in a few years and we can talk. In the meantime, I find myself continually reminding my Leftie friends of some of the oldest saws in the world.

    Success, dear chums, is getting what you want.

    Happiness is wanting what you get.

    Many people will soon understand the truth of that.

    And while it is true that Bush has been all but destroyed by the hater's of the Left, especially those in the media. He, like Truman, will see his presidency ascend over time.

    I myself find him flawed, as was Truman. He has been too loyal to those who weren't capable and he failed to fight back at the utter nonsense spewed by the Left over the war on terror. Failing to do this has allowed the Left's unpatriotic attacks give comfort to an enemy who became convinced that they could, like the communists in Vietnam, win a political battle given to them by the Left's hand maidens in Congress.

    In the meantime only 20% approve of a Democratic Congress, less than the approval of Bush. That it is Democrats who control Congress is why you hear almost nothing about this.

    But now the Democrats have it all and it is their right to govern. It is their war on terror. Their recession. Their housing crisis. Their failed energy policy. Their failing school systems. Their "homeless" sleeping under bridges. Their "everything."

    There is no evil Repub in charge and no racist in the White House, although the new occupant was elected because of his race. All the claims of the Left, all the charges, all the social theories can now be tested.

    In the meantime all we know for sure is we have a youth going to the White House that has never been tested. He is the first of the "no one loses, everybody wins" generation. As such his natural narcissism gives us a man who has never lost so he doesn't know how to win. He will be too gracious to our enemies and too harsh on his critics, He will confuse our allies and enemies alike. The results will most likely be death and destruction here in the US.

    We truly suffer from the Chinese curse. We live in interesting times.

    God help us all.

    or this:

    A friend advises that the Jackson Sun, a small newspaper in a small city in western Tennessee has made referring to Hussein as Hussein in their Opinion and Forum sections a banning offense.

    The usual suspects are trotted out for this suppression of speech. As for the reasoning...

        So the only reason people have for using it is to stir up racial or anti-Muslim sentiments,

    Given that being a Muslim has nothing to do with race, and given that Husseins first and last names are Muslim types, shouldn't we no longer use them? Perhaps we should just say, "The President." The "For Life" can come later.

    But onward to more "reasons."

        It's not racism ... but it is a tactic that started on the campaign trail with Republican officials invoking the middle name as an epithet, using it to link Obama to a religion that he doesn't even embrace

    I never knew that invoking epithets was always illegal, immoral or fattening. And when is it evil or illegal to remind the voters of the background of the candidates?

    Facts be facts. Hussein has a background and an early childhood that is, if nothing else, different.

    A better question would be, if it is a campaign tactic, what right does a newspaper have in banning it?

    And more.

        ....newspaper represents free speech ... it also is a business, and as such we reserve the right to ask people not to engage in hate speech or try to stir up tensions against a particular group of people.

    What is referred to here is commercial free speech, which is limited. The First Amendment forbids prior restraint of political speech by the government. Not the right of, say, an Opinion writer to call Hussein, Hussein.

        It's the same principle as not shouting fire in a crowded theatre -- perpetuating the lie that Obama is a Muslim...is just stoking the hatred of mentally unstable people.

    Of course there is no connection between the two. Shouting fire in a crowded theatre leads to demonstrable and immediate harmful results. Saying bad things, if using some one's middle name can be called "bad," does not. And if it is, what shall we say about the millions of nasty things said about Bush? Where is the army waiting to attack Bush?

    And while the newspaper can claim they are a commercial enterprise, they are the only enterprise named in the Constitution. As such they should have a higher tolerance for free speech that a business making widgets might extend to a worker making widgets deciding the competition makes better ones....and says so.

    Even worse, in this case Hussein is now the "government" and by the newspaper doing what he and his political allies want, they have become an arm of the government, and the Constitution has been harmed.

    Free speech carried by free newspapers and other media outlets is the best defense against dictators that has ever existed.

    As I have often stated, I refer to Hussein as Obama when I am on blogs owned by people I know do not like him to be called Hussein. That is simple courtesy. I am in their home.

    But a public newspaper is not a "home."

    I started calling him Hussein after reading that he didn't want to be called it, and then reading some comments by various members of the Left.

    I never, never, never intend to let a politician tell me what I can call him or her. They work for me. I am superior to them in that relationship and while it may be just my Scot Irish stubbornness towards accepting anyone as my "better," it is what it is.

    I think that all of this is part of a bigger picture. We are involved in a shooting war and a culture war. Hussein may not be a Muslim, and I don't believe he is, but these new political rules serves them well and will be trotted out again in the not too distant future. I ask that you examine the PC courts in Canada and the EU to see the logical end of such.

    Indeed, I think Churchill said it best and it applies as directly to us on this chilly November day as it did to England sixty six years and two days ago.

        Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

    We can now clearly see the future what it may become and how it may happen. It is up to us to reject it.

    BTW, the reference to narcissism is really funny coming from someone who has to reference one of the few things he's good at, can't be just Jim because why?

    Thanks again for the laughs, PPJ, along demonstrating why Obama won the election last year.

    [ Parent ]

    My troll rolls out a few more 1000 or more words.. (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40:26 PM EST
    Why don't you provide some links?  That is considered to be, if not required, at the very least good taste.

    BTW - Your obsession is frightening. Please get some help for your own good.

    BTW - This looks like a good forecast as to what is happening.

    In the meantime all we know for sure is we have a youth going to the White House that has never been tested. He is the first of the "no one loses, everybody wins" generation. As such his natural narcissism gives us a man who has never lost so he doesn't know how to win. He will be too gracious to our enemies and too harsh on his critics, He will confuse our allies and enemies alike. The results will most likely be death and destruction here in the US.

    We truly suffer from the Chinese curse. We live in interesting times.

    God help us all.



    [ Parent ]
    as I can't help repeating myself again. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 01:50:53 PM EST
    Why don't you provide some links?  That is considered to be, if not required, at the very least good taste.

    The fellow who talks about fly sh*t and pepper is worried about good taste?

    This is a new development, PPJ.

    Also, when did Jeralyn appoint you the Hall Monitor here?  Did she at least get you a badge and uniform to wear?  

    I did provide a link, to the first one.
    If you go back and check my comment, you'll see that I'm telling the truth, which I realize coming from a Leftie is unexpected from your POV.

    Anyone who uses one of your sentences as a search string in the second or third of your screeds can find them with ease. I'm not in favor of holding someone's hand because they lack research skills.

    Would you like me to open a paypal account for donations so that you can afford a copy of Google
    for Dummies
    ?

    BTW - Your obsession is frightening. Please get some help for your own good.

    Yes, that's the PPJ we all know, altruistic, having fun with his personal troll but you're really worried about me.

    Mother used to tell me that crazy people think they're sane and everyone around them is nuts, I've never seen that phenomenon at work before you started this 'concerned' tactic.

    BTW - This looks like a good forecast as to what is happening.

    Poker Playing Jim, I will grant that you have a fair amount of understanding about narcissism as a phenomenon, but again you're projecting, and unlike a head shrinker I won't wait 2 months and charge you 1000$ before telling you so.

    See you later, alligator.

    [ Parent ]

    My prime troll DA (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 02:20:23 PM EST
    is channeling again.

    And isn't it considered to be a rule of the Internet that if you make the claim, you provide the proof?

    So, where's the links?

    Come come DA. Provide some proof of your obsession driven quotes. Let the gentle reader see the complete comment, or admit that you have left out some important stuff, like you left out some important lines from Alito's comments...

    Did you ever think about the fact that you are always the one attacking a comment of mine?? Why is that?

    [ Parent ]

    is scaring me to bits, but anyway (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 04:01:34 PM EST

    And isn't it considered to be a rule of the Internet that if you make the claim, you provide the proof?

    I provided the link to the first quote, and I've already explained how to search the quotes for the links, but since you seem somewhat bewildered today, I'll take pity on you and try to calm you down.

    Search string results for

    "I'm not much on the "big story" baloney."

    Check the 6th result, and we find:

    Tall Cotton

    Just stuff about life, politics, and my disposition in general....
    Wednesday, December 31, 2008
    Happy Something ... New Year? Fox News watching?
    The year ends.

    Link Three:

    Tall Cotton

    Just stuff about life, politics, and my disposition in general....
    Wednesday, November 12, 2008
    Free speech takes a hit.

    Provide some proof of your obsession driven quotes. Let the gentle reader see the complete comment, or admit that you have left out some important stuff, like you left out some important lines from Alito's comments...

    Can I do the Watusi, first?

    Thanks.

    I just double-checked it, because as someone once remarked, when you play fair, you leave nothing to chance.  I didn't post the responses or other stuff that appears on the webpage, I already met your challenge as to completeness of the posts.

    I merely remembered a few turn of words that you made one day and then another, googled them, and got what I posted.  So sue me.

    It's just that simple, know what I mean, PPJ?

    I'm surprised you have neither pride of authorship or memory enough to remember what you write as well as, but that's not my problem, thank goodness.

    Did you ever think about the fact that you are always the one attacking a comment of mine?? Why is that?

    I think I answered that here:

    PPJ will never succeed in his goal (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 15, 2009 at 03:49:42 PM PDT
    of silencing me by shame or other means.

    I pray that you'll acquire the sense one day to realize that patronizing me like I'm in juvie detention and you're the social worker telling me my aggressive style isn't doing me any good doesn't work with me, but your refusal to learn from your experience here isn't under my control.

    Along with the undisputed fact that you have a record of attacking many commentators here who are rarely attacked by others,(why is that?)  squeaky, soccerdad, Sailor, Molly Bloom, BTD(ineffectively, hey, did he ban you from his threads?, I've never had that happen to me), anyone who wants to can search threads to verify it for themselves.

    Have you ever thought of the fact that many liberals take offense at being told they don't believe in national security?  No?  Why not?  Most people don't take kindly to being called traitors.

    The truth is that you're an inadvertent traitor, you act just the way Bin Laden would like all Americans to act, fearful, distrusting, expecting one of his minions to leap out from under the bed some dark and terrible night to slit your throat with a ............

    Are you getting scared yet?

    No?

    Dern.

    TTFN

    [ Parent ]

    Look if you don't want to admit that you (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 04:51:25 PM EST
    don't have links, fine.

    Most trolls don't.

    And silence you? Good heavens. You define yourself so very well I hope you never stop.

    But obsessive behavior can be precursors of other deep rooted problems. You really should see a Doctor.

    [ Parent ]

    Look at the words, (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 05:44:21 PM EST
    we find, and Link Three in my last comment, and you'll find the links you've been hankering after, the first, as I apparently unsuccessfully tried to tell you was in the words success in that area in my comment here, are you using a browser that doesn't show the links?

    "There are none so blind, as those who will not see."

    And silence you?

    Then you didn't write this comment over a year ago ?

    I thought that reminding you of your position regarding our military might be enough to shame you into silence.  I see that it is not.

     The entire thread can be found at the word link.

    If you actually changed your mind about something, good for you!

    You define yourself so very well I hope you never stop.

    Your generosity of spirit cannot be matched anywhere else on the Internet.

    But obsessive behavior can be precursors of other deep rooted problems. You really should see a Doctor.

    Like when you drag out that quote from squeaky whenever you think you're losing the argument with her?

    Like your response to this thread, where you seem  not to detect the three links I provided in my last two comments?

    As for seeing a doctor, what should I do if they say that nothing is wrong?

    Of course, being a military type, you're probably experienced with Section 8 types, in that case, I'll be the Corporal Klinger of this website, acting crazy and proud of it.

    Not that you should change your own style, I'm not afraid of competition.

    What about your own "birther syndrome", or can't you get treatment for that at your local VA?

    If nothing else, the seemingly unquenchable speculation about the "truth" of Barack Obama's birth is entertaining.
    Advertisement

    Like a fungus, speculation about whether Obama is a natural-born American surfaces, is eradicated, then somehow surfaces again. The issue, a favorite of conspiracy theorists who now are called "birthers," centers on whether Obama was born, as he says, in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Hospital.

    Obama has produced a standard birth certificate copy issued by the Hawai'i Health Department attesting to all that. And just this week Health Director Chiyome Fukino repeated that she has seen and verified the original, still in Health Department files.

    Still not good enough for some.

    All this would be silly if there were not a subtext that is a bit more serious. The speculation about Obama's birth status (the alternative theory is that somehow his mother made it from Hawai'i to Kenya to have her son) reveals that there are still many who cannot accept Obama as legitimately "American."

    As he likes to point out, he has an exotic name, comes from an exotic background (born in Hawai'i, schooled for a time in Indonesia) and has an exotic genetic mix (half white, half African).

    That's just too much, one suspects, for some people to handle. So they cling to absurdities, such as the theory that Obama was born in Africa, to deal with their discomfort.

    If this were simply a preoccupation of folks on the fringes of the Internet, it would be relatively harmless. But the infection has spread to the mainstream media and even into the halls of Congress.

    I've never been engaged in something that has been likened to a fungus, so congrads to you, PPJ, you're in the Big Time, and I hope you remember all the little people as you continue on your way up.


    [ Parent ]

    Dear Troll DA (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:59:04 PM EST
    Do you always obsess over things such as the comments of an old Social Liberal??

    As for seeing a doctor, what should I do if they say that nothing is wrong?

    I usually don't give medical advice but in your case I would get a second opinion.

    ROFLOL

    BTW - Why would you think I qualify for VA treatment?

    [ Parent ]

    Dear sadly, quite mistaken PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:34:20 PM EST
    Do you always obsess over things such as the comments of an old Social Liberal??

    I dunno, have you figured out yet that I did provide the links you requested, or would you rather I didn't bring up a subject that you were so obsessed about earlier today?

    I usually don't give medical advice but in your case I would get a second opinion.

    About me being frightening? Sure thing.  I just talked to a chiropractor, and he says I'm not a scary fellow. I found your advice quite useful.

    BTW - Why would you think I qualify for VA treatment?

    I thought that you were in the military for 10 years flying fighter jets, didn't that make you eligible for your medical needs being taken care of by the VA?

    Anyway, it wasn't meant as an insult, as I have know several people, including veterans who've married into my family who get fine care from the VA.

    I wouldn't want to sully the VA's reputation by association with you if that was an unwarranted conclusion on my part.

    Now, go ahead and tell me how you wish I would keep defining myself as frightening or whatever your latest  complaint d'heure  turns out to be, after all, I'm in the Pacific time zone, and will be able to answer late into the night, if you need any more help with looking foolish, which so far you've been able to do on your own with minimal input up until now.

    TTFN, and be sure to check under your bed, I've heard that jihadis like to kill infidels on Wednesday night so they can celebrate on Thursdays, but it could be another wild Internet rumor.  

    [ Parent ]

    Hmmm did you? (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 30, 2009 at 07:49:02 AM EST
    You say so much I may have missed them.

    ;-)

    All I have ever said is that I spent 10 years in Naval Aviation. Is that too difficult for you to understand. (Evidently, yes.)

    Have a nice day!!

    Don't forget to stew and obsess!

    [ Parent ]

    So, 10 years in Naval Aviation (none / 0) (#29)
    by Dark Avenger on Thu Jul 30, 2009 at 08:21:06 AM EST
    does or doesn't qualify one for treatment by the VA, PPJ?

    Is that too difficult for you to understand. (Evidently, yes.)

    Nah, it's  difficult to understand why you're so coy about the circumstances of your discharge.

    If you weren't discharged honorably, you would of course not be covered by the VA, and that would explain many things about your behavior here.

    Don't forget to stew and obsess!

    Why, are you taking notes?

    You shouldn't be jealous, my talent is but nothing compared to what you've displayed here in the past, and competitiveness in a man your age betokens insecurity and a lack of self-confidence, IMHO.

    Also:

    BOO!

    (now that you've confessed that I'm frightening, I have a reputation to uphold. Nothing personal, you understand.)

    At least you're getting more generous in your old age:

    Link

    and would you please remember (1.00 / 1) (#58)

        by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 07:08:44 PM EST

            that you are one of those people I wouldn't pee on their shoes if their socks were on fire??

            Have a truly miserable day, DA. You deserve one

    For the record, I hope you quit having miserable days soon, and start to feel like your old self again.  :-0

    [ Parent ]

    BTW, I'm done for today. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Dark Avenger on Thu Jul 30, 2009 at 11:47:35 AM EST
    If you're up to it, you can post on TalkLeft.com all day today and you won't get a response from moi.

    This point, of course, is non-negotiable, and if I feel like it, I might start posting here tomorrow in the early A.M., but don't feel downcast if I don't, I'm not promising anything.

    I thought you'd also like to know that in my jurisdiction, to stop someone from commenting on a website without the cooperation of the owner would have to be with a court order or arrest of the commentator, as they don't allow inmates near the Internet.

    Even in involuntary/voluntary commitment cases, absent threats of physical violence/harm, a mental patient (which is what all your 'concerned' 'hints' are really all about, as my wife says, don't make me stupid!) would still be able to post on the Internet after the mandatory 72-hour hold.

    Anyway, knock yourself out, Tiger.  

    Run free and shed your fear as a snake sheds its skin!

    As I used to tell Mom before opening night when she walked the boards of the local community theater. "Break a leg!".

    Mandatory Link


    [ Parent ]

    The bitter joke at FARK (none / 0) (#6)
    by jerry on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:46:02 PM EST
    is that there have been two aircraft crashes in Iran in two weeks, and there are more aircraft crashes coming....