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Monday Night TV and Open Thread

The Bachelorette Finale starts here in 15 minutes. You can read my predictions and thoughts on the season over at PopLeft.

I've also got Weeds and Nurse Jackie set to record. I won't be checking in here until after the Bachelorette is over so I don't see a spoiler from the East Coast by mistake.

Thanks to everyone for putting up with my Monday night TV threads, this is probably the final one.

So what are you watching (or not) tonight and what did I miss by spending the day sitting in tiny visiting cubicles at the jail today? This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    No Reservations on the Travel Channel (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:34:16 PM EST
    Regarding an earlier discussion: the side-by-side bathtubs are in a Cialis commercial, not Viagra.

    Where's Bourdain? (none / 0) (#7)
    by vml68 on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:41:02 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    Chicago of all places (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:43:55 PM EST
    Baltimore next.

    Parent
    Probably not outdoors in a side-by-side bathtub (none / 0) (#74)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:39:53 AM EST
    Though if anyone could talk me into that, it might be him.

    Parent
    Vick Reinstated in NFL (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:00:11 AM EST
    Among the stipulations announced Monday for Vick's eventual reinstatement: Vick is required to have counselors and mentors guide him through his attempted comeback (former Indianapolis coach Tony Dungy is serving as the NFL's liaison). Vick must keep Goodell apprised about his living arrangements if/when signing with an NFL team. Vick even needs to tell Goodell how he will "manage his financial affairs" and follow that plan.

    link

    I am glad that Vick (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:43:00 AM EST
    gets another crack at using his talents.  He paid his debt, we rehabilitated the animals that we could and placed them in good homes, others we had to euthanize.  Dog fighting is also a cultural/social problem though in my eyes, it happens here and even though I don't know where this stuff goes down I know it does just by reading the ads for pitbull puppies in the local paper.  I doubt that Vick will ever be interested in it ever again and if he is I will not be forgiving.  As for now though, I'm glad he's coming back.  Enough lives were ruined.  I don't need one more.

    Parent
    Vick to be treated like a child? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Fabian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:20:53 AM EST
    I can agree with that.  There's probably a few athletes who could benefit from that treatment.

    Parent
    I'm kind of thinking (none / 0) (#94)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:00:14 PM EST
    though, that Vick, or whatever team he winds up on, won't be getting a major sponsorship from Purina or Iams.  ;-)

    Parent
    Enough is Right (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:09:15 AM EST
    Both Connecticut's Chris Dodd and North Dakota's Kent Conrad steadfastly deny any knowledge or fact of preferential treatment in their real estate loans from Countrywide Mortgage, but the fact the story keeps hanging around is disquieting. And apparently it has been doing quite a bit more than hanging around, there have been hearings and testimony.

    [snip

    First off, let's be clear, there has been no finding of wrongdoing as to either Dodd or Conrad. Secondly, even if it were to be all true, it does not look like the benefits were particularly valuable monetarily. Still, it is tiring seeing the constant privileged status our elected officials in Washington claim for themselves.

    These are two critical Senators for the Democratic majority, and here we are in the biggest legislative struggle perhaps in decades over healthcare reform talking about their ethical propriety. It is not helpful. I don't care if the two Senators' gain was penny ante in the long run, it is the fact they were brazen enough to think it okay to take a little cut. Because as members of the "world's greatest deliberative body" they from all appearances simply felt entitled. Like Kobe Bryant and Ben Roethlisberger, even if they are totally innocent, the mere fact that they allowed themselves to be placed in such a position speaks ill.

    It has, at a minimum, the appearance of impropriety and, right now, that is too much.

    Enough.

    emptywheel

    So... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:16:03 AM EST
    Obama has struggled with returning almost $670,000 worth of "tainted" campaign contributions - including from his aunt, who is a foreign national.

    Who knew it took this long to weed through this kind of stuff?  I wonder how long other candidates and other presidents took - it would be interesting to see - because even though he raised more money than anyone, he had the benefit of all the latest technology and many of these should have been checked pretty instantly (and weren't, because as we all know - the camaign turned off the credit card verification number function on the website).

    Apparently, if folks can't be found to return the money, the campaign has the option of giving the money to charity or to the US Treasury.

    I would note this (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:43:54 AM EST
    an overwhelming majority of the refunds in the report were reissues of refund checks that donors did not cash the first time, for a variety of reasons.


    Parent
    So (none / 0) (#87)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 10:57:04 AM EST
    Why haven't they been turned over yet?  I guess that's the question - if they have determined that people can't or won't accept them, then it's time for a trip next door to the Treasury Dept....

    Parent
    Sounds like (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 11:27:25 AM EST
    they are making a second effort to send out the checks.  The watchdog groups cited in the article seem to be impressed with Obama's staff for making all these efforts, rather than taking the easy way out by just turning it all over to the Treasury.

    Parent
    It wasn't a condemnation (none / 0) (#91)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 11:57:44 AM EST
    Just interesting - especially since that number (and larger -that's what they haven't gotten to yet) was reported in the "Greatest fundraising ever" theme.  

    My only beef is that many of these problems were known and reported on last year - even before the conventions, so why has it taken this long to get it resolved?

    Parent

    I'm watching the Bachelorette! (none / 0) (#1)
    by otherlisa on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:16:30 PM EST
    I too find it oddly addicting...

    I got rid of all my cable at the end of this season's "Breaking Bad"  because I was wasting too much time watching "America's Next Top Model" marathons, so unfortunately, no "Nurse Jackie" or "Weeds" for me...

    I'll probably have to turn it back on when it's time for "Mad Men" though!

    Could this mean you don't anticipate (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:30:53 PM EST
    the Pads will make the play offs this year?  I have enhanced cable to get Channel 4.  But why?  At least Cabrera got his first major league HR.  

    Parent
    Cubs at the top of the NL Central (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:19:13 PM EST
    Of course this is certain to be a temporary development. I predict a Cubs' surge. Then, when my hopes up, a dramatic crash around Labor Day.

    Parent
    er well (none / 0) (#20)
    by otherlisa on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:07:36 PM EST
    No...

    I'm in Venice Beach now anyway, so no 4-Padres 4 me...

    So sad, I was not expecting such a colossal meltdown this year...I know, hope springs eternal and all that.

    Parent

    Are you bleeding Dodger Blue? (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:37:08 PM EST
    NEVER!!!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by otherlisa on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:59:41 PM EST
    Stinkin' Dodgers...no way.

    Baseball loyalty is forever, baby. Padres! Even when they suck.

    Parent

    I would think that if you are sure (none / 0) (#10)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:44:30 PM EST
    you want to marry someone, you would not have all this agonizing to do to make your decision.

    But then I've never had more than one guy want to marry me at a time....

    Parent

    What is the average length of these marriages? (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:46:02 PM EST
    Ha! I think there has only been one (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:47:38 PM EST
    actual marriage - Trista and Ryan.

    Oh, the fleeeting joys of showmance!

    Parent

    I'm watching too (none / 0) (#2)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:27:00 PM EST
    Jeralyn got me semi-hooked.  Didn't watch many episodes, but the last one I did see was when Ed left. Was surprised to see him back in the final 2. Guess I missed a lot.

    Kind of boring when they spend half an hour talking about how much in love they are....a little repetitive.  

    But what else would I watch to learn about vibrating mascara?


    Creepy! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:47:37 PM EST
    I saw that ad and thought, there's a product liability lawsuit waiting to happen.

    Parent
    Yeah - a vibrating stick near my eye (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:48:44 PM EST
    Brilliant!!!!

    Parent
    Hey, you can use that with the new (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:36:58 PM EST
    eyelashes you can grow with the Brooke Shields-hawked Latisse, which could change your eye color, too!

    I guess we really are that vain.

    Parent

    Wasn't there a doll like that (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:21:14 AM EST
    when we were kids? Grew long eyelashes? We have come full circle - we have the technology to become our dolls.

    Parent
    Inquiring minds want to know. How does (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:32:08 PM EST
    a previously booted bachelor worm his way back into the final?

    Parent
    He didn't get booted (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:42:35 PM EST
    He left on his own accord, supposedly for a crisis at work. I guess they let him come back at some point.

    But wait, there's more! I won't do a spoiler...but if you want one click J's link to popleft in her post.

    Parent

    woo-hoo! (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:57:23 PM EST
    I called it exactly over at Popleft. My new career: reality show sleuther (just kidding.) Jillian made the worst choice, but it was totally scripted and forseeable.

    Parent
    I know I'm a sucker (none / 0) (#44)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:03:08 AM EST
    but I thought they were kind of cute!

    Parent
    You did call it (none / 0) (#68)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:25:06 AM EST
    I didn't see enough of the season to know if she made the right choice, or even what that means in showmance, but I do know that whole bit with Reid was really uncomfortable.

    Can you find the real truth about Survivor's 'Coach' and the Amazon tribes?

    Parent

    Don't they always? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:44:59 AM EST
    This isn't just a problem when the cameras are rolling :)

    Parent
    Starting to be worry this won't be over (none / 0) (#16)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:53:03 PM EST
    before Weeds. I'll have to switch at 10!

    Parent
    Awww, now that did seem sincere (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:00:41 PM EST
    good luck to them.

    Parent
    I'll be watching Raising the Bar. I only have (none / 0) (#3)
    by tigercourse on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:28:11 PM EST
    room enough in my life for one courtroom drama (and can only take about 10 episodes a year at that) and this is the one.

    It suffers the Matlock dissease (client is always basically innocent) but is fairly entertaining over all.

    Have really been enjoying that show - (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:10:24 PM EST
    Steven Bochco has another winner.

    One thing's for sure, while it's hard at times not to love or hate the characters, Bochco manages to make them complex enough that just when you think you cannot stand a particular character, or you're just over-the-moon about another, some little insight comes creeping in that makes you stop and think.

    Between RTB and The Closer, Mondays have been an enjoyable TV night.  I have to catch Nurse Jackie later in the week, but have also been enjoying that one, too.

    Parent

    The closer is great but Nurse Jackie (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:33:51 AM EST
    Has the worst medical consultant of all time.  It is painful

    Parent
    I don't think the serious communists (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:56:04 PM EST
    recognize democratically elected socialists as legitimate. The internal battles of the left are complicated and, IMO, soporific.

    See what happened in Palestine` (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 01:12:32 AM EST
    for example.  That's not the Obama admin, but it's pretty much been U.S. policy up to now.  We want democratic elections until they produce a result we don't like.  See also Nicaragua.

    Frankly, I don't actually believe people the world over yearn for the kinds of freedoms we have here above all else.  I think people yearn for some kind of financial/physical security when they don't have it.  And without any history of our kind of freedoms, they loom much less large in people's yearnings.

    The vast, vast majority of Russians were OK with the authoritarian rule that made sure they had enough to eat.  A fair number of them yearn for the return of those days.  Being able to say what you want in public is pretty small stuff if you're having to beg foreign tourists on the street for money to buy food.

    Parent

    It's a hard question (none / 0) (#21)
    by andgarden on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:12:49 PM EST
    My personal belief is that societies generally have the right to remake the economic nature of their societies through democracy. But we don't have any international "trip lines."

    Parent
    As legitimate what? (none / 0) (#49)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 01:06:03 AM EST
    If they're socialists, they're not communists and communists won't like them a lot.  But there are precious few communists left anywhere.

    As for communists not recognizing the legitimacy of democratic elections-- you're smoking what now these days?  They certainly have never recognized elections as the sole legitimate route to power, but I sure never heard of any communist who would turn down an invitation to take office based on an election.

    Parent

    Public Option Out (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:41:46 PM EST
    Senate finance committe nixed the public option today.

    After weeks of secretive talks, a bipartisan group in the Senate edged closer Monday to a health care compromise that omits two key Democratic priorities but incorporates provisions to slow the explosive rise in medical costs, officials said.

    These officials said participants were on track to exclude a requirement many congressional Democrats seek for businesses to offer coverage to their workers. Nor would there be a provision for a government insurance option, despite President Barack Obama's support for such a plan.

    HuffPo


    New Co-Presidents Baucus and Grassley (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:55:39 PM EST
    have spoken. I think it is so post-partisan and civilized the way the Senate passes around the co-presidency. First Ben Nelson/Susan Collins and now Baucus/Grassley.

    Who will the next lucky bipartisan couple to screw the American people?

    Parent

    If Obama were not perforated so as (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:16:24 PM EST
    to make folding easier, maybe we would not be in a position where the really important elements of "reform" were being sold off and sold out one-by-one until all we will be left with is legislation that guarantees the private insurance companies years and years of record profits, while we will continue to have dismal outcomes and stats, and millions will still be without affordable care.

    I'm pretty sure that at this rate, in nine years when I am finally eligible for Medicare, it will have been reduced to a mere shell, having been gutted to find the cost savings that never materialized from Obamacare.  Maybe I will have my own personal ice floe, though, which will make the shuffling off this mortal coil ever so much more like a special no-frills cruise.

    Parent

    We can have the bus we've all been under (4.80 / 5) (#30)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:22:02 PM EST
    drive right onto the ice floes.

    Parent
    Surprise, Surprise (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:14:25 AM EST
    What we will end up with is a trillion dollar give away to the insurance companies.

    And cuts to Medicare and Medicaid which accounts for the provisions to slow the explosive rise in medical costs.

    Heck of a good job Dems. Keep those campaign contributions flowing no matter the costs to the taxpayers or to the health and well being of those you represent.

    Parent

    {sigh} :( (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by nycstray on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:10:46 PM EST
    "thanks"* for the info.

    but incorporates provisions to slow the explosive rise in medical costs

    Umm HELLO! It's already over the top!

    * not a neg thanks, just a disappointed, but not unexpected one. Nothing to do with you .. .

    Parent

    Slow the rise in medical costs (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:36:01 AM EST
    Shorter version: slash Medicare.

    House Democrats announced agreement Friday on far-reaching steps designed to rein in the relentless growth of Medicare, part of a concerted effort to counter the impression that President Barack Obama's health care legislation is in deep trouble.


    Parent

    Not surprised. (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 05:48:32 AM EST
    Obama has always been willing to bargain everything away. Yesterday it was announced that there will be no reform without the GOP so there really isnt going to be a worthwhile bill. Perhaps it's a good thing that no bill will be passed because from what I've read this bill is just a bunch of junk.

    Parent
    Weeds (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:14:25 PM EST
    needs more funny episodes.  We Weeds watchers here think it's going the way Twin Peaks went, weirding out.  If the baby turns into the Twin Peaks midget and talks in that freeky deep voice, it's time to get out the RoundUp and give up on Weeds.

    But we're really starting to get into Warehouse 13.  Silly, fun, escapist teevee with a good cast.

    I keep forgetting about WH 13! (none / 0) (#28)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:17:35 PM EST
    Argh.  As a "Fringe" fan, I found it very much on that order - I just need to remember when it's on and to WATCH IT!

    Parent
    what is warehouse tv? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 02:35:46 AM EST
    Warehouse 13 is the name (none / 0) (#90)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 11:42:40 AM EST
    of the show, and it's on the sci-fi channel.  I'd give a link, as it googles up for me just typing in the show's name -- but either my computer is acting up again or the website is so full of glitz that my computer can't copy and past the URL!

    The show about "America's attic" does remind me that I need to clean out my attic.  And my basement. :-)

    Parent

    It is teetering on that brink (none / 0) (#70)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:34:19 AM EST
    I think Doug and Celia's ex are only funny when they are dealing with Celia. Glad to see last night they may be bringing more of that interaction back into it.

    A couple of Nancy's lines with Esteban last night sounded right out of a soap opera but great acting rescued the scene.

    I still love Andy best.

    Parent

    Forgot to mention (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:36:26 AM EST
    the Dr. Alanis  - Andy date scene. Hilarious - her line about rather being home in her pj's with a box set of Friday Night Lights. God, do I know those dates.

    Parent
    Alanis is a really good (none / 0) (#88)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 11:15:41 AM EST
    actress. I like her character and the way she plays her.

    Parent
    Celia is going back to jail (none / 0) (#93)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 04:18:34 PM EST
    is my prediction, if only to bring back some of the most incredibly funny makeup and hairdos ever done on teevee.

    Parent
    Re Cuba: one small step. (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 10:46:07 PM EST
    LAT

    Shepard Fairey AP Case (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:19:47 PM EST
    Manny Garcia has been granted motion to intervene in the Shepard Fariey AP lawsuit.

    The lawsuit, Shepard Fairey et al. v. The Associated Press, now concerns two main questions. Was Fairey's use of the photograph fair use, and thus protected by law, or was it a copyright infringement? And who owns the copyright to the photograph, Garcia or the AP?

    Garcia says he was a freelancer when he shot the photograph for the AP, and thus the work-for-hire doctrine does not apply, though the AP says Garcia was an employee and so the AP owns the photograph.

    Both Garcia and the AP have registered the photograph with the U.S. copyright office, and Fairey has registered his posters as well.

    PDN

    Thursday Set for Beer (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:25:01 PM EST
    Charles Ogletree, one of Gates's lawyers, tells the Globe that the meeting [Beer Diplomacy] will be on Thursday and that both Crowley and Gates can bring family members. The White House would not immediately confirm those details.

    HuffPo

    Huff Po also posted Doris Kearns (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:28:51 PM EST
    Goodwin on history of alcohol in the WH.

    Parent
    Here's my latest fantasy re the meet up: (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:42:00 PM EST
    Masssachusetts is a same sex marriage state.  Perhaps Sgt. Crowley and/or Prof. Gates will bring along a same sex spouse.

    Parent
    Sgt. Crowley is married--to a female. (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:50:25 AM EST
    Propofol Cause of Death? (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:52:24 PM EST
    ABC News has learned that the autopsy of Michael Jackson found the powerful anesthetic propofol, as well as several prescription drugs, in his system, and law enforcement sources say that investigators believe their final report will list the propofol as a "contributing factor" in his death.

    Jackson's personal doctor, Conrad Murray, who was with him when he died June 25 at his rented California home, has been identified in court papers as the subject of a manslaughter investigation.

    Late today, The Associated Press reported that a law enforcement official said investigators believed Murray administered the shot of propofol that would end Jackson's life.

    Chernoff declined to comment on the report, saying only, "We will not be commenting on rumors, innuendo or unnamed sources.

    ABC


    So not surprised... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:02:04 AM EST
    I certified as an EMT many years ago and have done the CPR certification a few times more recently. When I heard about the 911 call, I was like, "what kind of cardiologist does CPR on a bed? Or one-handed as he later claimed."

    Sketchy fellow from available evidence.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#45)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:04:38 AM EST
    You would think that Jackson would have the best MD's money could buy. Guess that was not the case, or so it seems from the CPR report.

    Parent
    An M.D. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Fabian on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:31:43 AM EST
    doesn't mean you know how to do CPR or are certified - or, for that matter, know how to do a variety of medical procedures.  Technical skill is often unrelated to education.

    Parent
    Chernoff represents Dr. Murray. (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:52:53 AM EST
    House, then Lie to me (none / 0) (#40)
    by coigue on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:57:01 PM EST


    87 degrees at 11:30 PM (none / 0) (#51)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 01:32:25 AM EST
    It is hot! The temp hit 103 today; tomorrow 104; Wednesday 105; Thursday a bit of a cool-down with the temp only getting to 100. We are breaking records all over the place.


    Regarding Vick (none / 0) (#52)
    by The Last Whimzy on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 01:34:23 AM EST
    I hope the legal observation i make in this comment makes this comment worthy to appear on a legal blog.

    I've been listening to the sportstalk radio and a lot of call in folks have been comparing vick to donte stallworth, the nfl player who killed a pedestrian while driving drunk.  the comparison and the punishments meted out to both seems unfair to some because stallworth's victim was a human being and vick's victims were animals.

    set aside the probability that many in a progressive community would value animal life equal to human life, remember we're talking about sportstalk radio here.

    so anyway, i've been wanting to call in and point out the one of the most important aspects of the law is determining motive and intent.

    that while stallworth's crime deserved punishment, it was an accident albeit a maliciously negligent accident. really, the point is donte stallworth does not sit around planning ways to kill pedestrians.

    in contrast, vick sat around with likeminded individuals and planned the destruction of animals with the express purpose to make money from it.  people seem to forget that.

    so.  when i learned that vick would be re-instated i was outraged.  but not surprised.  but i did not know the re-instatement came with a five game suspension which means that any team (what few teams there are) interested in vick has to write off 1/3 of a seasons worth of return on their investment.

    this probably eliminates a few more teams who are considering taking on what remains a PR liability.  rightly so.  in my view, vick should never be allowed to play in the nfl again.


    not sure i follow (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 02:38:54 AM EST
    He was convicted and served his sentence. Why should he be barred? If we don't allow ex-offenders to regain their livelihood, or get meaninful jobs, they end up committing economic crimes to survive and back in prison. Maybe he's been rehabiliated.

    Parent
    Not a lawyer but (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 04:16:21 AM EST
    I agree with both LW's statement on intent and Jeralyn's conclusion.

    There is a difference between Vick and Stallworth in that Stallworth did not intend to take a life, and Vick knew what the likely results of his actions were.

    However, I also agree that Vick served his time and should be allowed to get on with his life.

    Parent

    So what D.A.... (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:05:29 AM EST
    this ex-cons occupation happens to be professional athlete, it is his most marketable skill. To not even give him the chance to use his unique skills would be a sin.

    I gotta hand it to Goodell...I think he found a happy medium compromise....he can come back if he finds a gig to make the more forgiving happy, but with strict conditions to make the more vindictive happy.  Aside from PETA of course, no making them happy.

     

    Parent

    Ah Wayne (none / 0) (#75)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:47:48 AM EST
    the man who wanted to mass euth all the dogs . . .

    I agree that he could use his "unique skills" in other ways.

    Parent

    It is true (none / 0) (#78)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:08:08 AM EST
    SOP has been just euth all the dogs, including puppies still with their mothers. The HSUS is usually right out in front saying that after dog fight busts. The HSUS actually used this situation to fund raise 'to care for the Vick dogs', which they were not in fact caring for. Wayne's statement might be right, but his motives I question. I also don't know that Vick is the best person for his 'cause', as I've heard no remorse for what he did to the dogs. He's been all about getting caught and what he can do to play football again. I'd love to see some real remorse for the brutality he inflicted on dawg knows how many dogs.

    Parent
    So this Wayne cat... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:57:59 AM EST
    wants to make an example out of Vick...I ain't down with using human lives as examples to prove points to children...he's not a blackboard or an overhead projector, he's flesh and blood and he paid his debt.

    And if Vick were to regain his superstar status and used the platform to educate on the evils of dogfighting...isn't that what Wayne wants?  To teach kids?

    What are we teaching kids if we kept him from playing ball?  That if you f*ck up society will throw you aside like yesterdays trash?

    Parent

    We teach kids (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:20:31 AM EST
    that if you do something so vile and inhumane, you don't get play a kids' game and make millions of dollars.  We teach kids that they have choices to make in this life, and choices come with consequences, so just because you may have paid a debt to society, doesn't mean you get to start at the top again.  Why should someone who screws up get everything handed back to them, when others who have played by the rules don't get that chance?

    Isn't that a libertarian philosphy?  You are free to make your choices, but you must be prepared to live with the consequence?

    Parent

    Nothing is getting handed to him jb... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:32:09 AM EST
    the hardest part is still to come...finding an owner to take a chance on him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he goes unsigned.

    We've already taught the kids actions have consequences...the guy lost his fortune and spent time in a cage for god's sake...how much vengeance do we want?

    I think I'm in line with my quasi-libertarian principles here...the guy f*cked up big time, paid for it (dearly imo), and now it it is time for forgiveness and a second chance.

    Everybody has the same chance as Vick to play ball, a better chance actually because they don't have the baggage...but superior athletic ability is a requirement for this job.  Not all choir boys can run sub 4.5 40's and fling it 70 yards.

    Parent

    Does anybody really think... (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:23:37 AM EST
    a kid looking to get into the dogfighting racket is gonna hit the brakes because Mike Vick can't play ball, if the loss of millions of dollars and time in chains and cages didn't?  C'mon.

    I'm not in the habit of letting anybody I haven't looked in the eyes or shaken hands with care for kids that I love...but that being said if I knew him I don't see why I wouldn't, I don't think the guy is an unredeemable animal.

    Parent

    Yup, parade the dude around (none / 0) (#81)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:17:06 AM EST
    and then send out some fund raising letters because of all the 'good' they're doing.

    What those kids need is the opportunity to spend time training and caring for dogs, mentors to help them build life skills etc.

    What do we teach kids if he doesn't play again? Well perhaps if you violate contracts and stuff, your current employer just might fire your a**. Sometimes when you get fired, you have to rebuild your life in a different manner. What do we teach kids if he goes back into the NFL and starts hauling in the dough again? You can spend years brutally killing dogs and inflicting abuse on them and still be a superstar after a short detour! If Vick had actually had to serve time for the state charges (which were different and included felony animal abuse, iirc), he wouldn't even have the opportunity to play again. He got a better deal than the dogs, that's for sure.

    Parent

    Vick (none / 0) (#86)
    by The Last Whimzy on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 10:31:26 AM EST
    Never being allowed to play in the NFL again is a stronger message than giving him millions of dollars to say "I was wrong."

    Parent
    Gambling can get you banned (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 06:52:56 AM EST
    from the NFL. This article talks about it.

    He didn't serve any time on the state charges, which were different than the federal ones. Not so sure he's been rehabiliated, but I'm guessing as long as he's trying to make money as a player he may stay away from the dogs. After his career is over, who knows . . . . I personally have to wonder about a person who can kill/allow the killing of dogs in the manner he did.

    Parent

    Good luck finding (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:21:56 AM EST
    the "many" progressives who value animal life the same as human life.  So everyone who accidentally hits a deer should get the same punishment as Stallworth?  Can't say as I know anyone who believes that.

    Parent