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Saturday Morning Open Thread

In the Tour de France, today is Mont Ventoux day. You can watch it online here.

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    The final stretch is sponsored by Chrysler (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:47:28 AM EST
    So TARP money is paying for TdF TV coverage!

    Got anything against (none / 0) (#13)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:30:06 AM EST
    repayable TARP Money? I kind of like that we saved dealerships and jobs and distributors and American brand cars.

    Your post has an air that TARP money is bad.

    Parent

    You are soooo sensitive (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:32:13 AM EST
    Hint: I supported TARP.

    Parent
    OK if you say so (none / 0) (#21)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:12:39 AM EST
    I'd love to see some links to your strong advocacy posts for TARP because I don't remember seeing any.

    Parent
    I don't have to prove anything to you (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:15:45 AM EST
    but it was right here in the TL comments.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#40)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:38:02 AM EST
    TU 4 the confirmation.

    MT who rated you is firmly against TARP.

    Parent

    update on the packing/move-- (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26:30 AM EST
    six-- count 'em-- SIX pressure cookers. two deluxe models... one in storage, still in the box. electric, programmable, choice of high or low pressure. You can even brown in it before pressure cooking.  I think that one might go to mom, if she wants it!

    Donated clothes, books, some pressure cookers and other cookware yesterda, more stuff today.

    Moving is a good way to get rid of collected stuff that's too good to throw way, but not needed any more!

    It's not unlike an archeological dig... (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:49:43 AM EST
    as you work your way down through the layers of various stages in your life.

    After my uncle's death in 2005 - he had no children - my mother's move to a retirement community and the serious downsizing that accompanied it, and the selling of my aunt's house now that she in in the nursing home (no kids there, either), my brother and I each have basements and other areas of our homes that are respositories for a lot of their stuff.  Not only do I need to get control over what is worth keeping, what can be parceled out to my own kids, and what should be donated, but I have to make some serious inroads into our own accumulation of stuff over the last 26 years we've been in our house.  Since my husband keeps saying, "you can't get rid of that," about things he probably had even forgotten he had, I think I have to do it while he isn't around to inspect every last thing that heads out the door.

    I can just picture our kids gathering to break down our house some time in the future when my husband and I are both dead, or nodding off in the nursing home, shaking their heads and muttering, "Good God, why on earth did they keep all this cr@p???"

    And after three family-related, cleaning-out-the-house til it's empty, events, I would like to spare them the months of weekends spent with contractor bags and dumpsters...it might be more of a gift than anything else they are likely to get when we're gone.

    Parent

    Uh oh (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Steve M on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:01:42 AM EST
    alone w/ the kids for a couple hours while the wife treats herself to shoe shopping + pedicure.  Wish me luck!

    It's just must needed practice! (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:07:28 AM EST
    That's what I tell my husband.  "Dear, you need the practice.  Your parenting skills are getting rusty!"

    Since we have two boys, I have the ready made "You need some male bonding time!".

    A real workout would be a full weekend, with dishes, laundry and bedtimes.  

    Parent

    It;s my first day out of... (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by desertswine on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:19:29 AM EST
    the hospital. Was in for two weeks because of a gall bladder that went nuclear. Wow I don't wish that on anyone. I'm ready to sit back and watch some baseball.

    Oh No (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:25:37 AM EST
    Speedy recovery, welcome back, and sorry to hear that you were suffering...

    Parent
    Sorry you were in for so long! (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:41:53 AM EST
    Two weeks is a long time for gall bladder.  

    But it's all gone now!
    Worked with a woman whose husband thought she was lying about her gall bladder pain.  "Worse than labor" is how she described it.  I'd be in the ER asking for the next available OR.

    Parent

    Many, many thanks... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by desertswine on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:33:39 PM EST
    But don't make me laugh!!!

    Parent
    Enjoy the baseball (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:29:45 PM EST
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

    Parent
    Sexual Harassment Law Suit (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:24:26 AM EST
    or WATB
    "multiple incidents of abusive and degrading comments of an explicitly sexual nature."

    "Have you ever had a red hot poker shoved up your [butt]? Have you ever had a broomstick shoved up your [butt]? . . . How would you know how it feels if it never happened to you? Admit it, you liked it."

    "Seeing him topless in tent city was the most repulsive sight I've ever seen in my life. I wanted to vomit."

    "I know you're hot for your interns and bring them down as your 'companions,' but seriously, if I'm going to do their work anyway, what purpose do they serve? (Carol knows my intern last year was a male, therefore another inference that I was gay.)"

    link via emptywheel

    Brave Move (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:40:24 AM EST
    GOod on them for showing it. It was banned in NYC due to efforts by AIPAC lobbyists.

    "Rachel" is a sympathetic portrait of the American pro-Palestinian activist who was killed in 2003 in Gaza while protesting a home demolition in front of an Israeli bulldozer.

    If the Academy handed out an Oscar for community turmoil, the Rachel Corrie flap at this year's San Francisco Jewish Film Festival would win handily.

    Dissension in the local Jewish community continued unabated over the festival's upcoming screenings of "Rachel,"

    [snip]

    "Rachel" is a sympathetic portrait of the American pro-Palestinian activist who was killed in 2003 in Gaza while protesting a home demolition in front of an Israeli bulldozer.

    [snip]

    Sponsors of the festival also voiced their concerns. The Koret Foundation and the Taube Foundation for Jewish Life and Culture, each headed by philanthropist Tad Taube and self-described as "sister philanthropies," issued a joint statement July 21. Koret and Taube, among dozens of sponsors of the S.F. Jewish Film Festival, criticized the festival for working with the American Friends Service Committee and Jewish Voice for Peace -- "two virulently anti-Israel, anti-Semitic groups" -- in co-presenting the film, for inviting Cindy Corrie to speak and for booking "Rachel" in the first place.

    The statement read in part: "Those who cavalierly fling Israel's future into the grasp of those who would destroy it betray a mainstay of the mainstream Jewish community to support Israel and to counteract anti-Israel propaganda events, speakers and organizations. In this case, the San Francisco Jewish Film Festival has aligned itself with the wrong side."

    JTA via robot wisdom


    I think people need to consider the (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:23:00 PM EST
    effect of their words no matter who they're talking to, or at least understand that they - we - are responsible for our words and not in control of the consequences of uttering them - no matter who is involved.  None of us is "supposed" to react violently or seemingly out of proportion to what is said to us - we're all supposed to know better, aren't we?  Sure, if you say something to me and I go ballistic on you, you can't arrest me for doing it, but that doesn't mean we both don't have to take responsibility for what we said and how we reacted, does it?

    Digby's entitled to her opinion, as is everyone, but her take on this is no more right than anyone else's.  Sure, the cops have a responsibility not to assert their authority just because they can, but unless digby was present - unless we were all present - attempting to think we "know" what happened is just ridiculous.

    And the elite (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:40:30 PM EST
    has no place exerting their authority just because they know they can....but they always do, just as cops always do.

    Parent
    Difference being, though (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:14:48 PM EST
    that cops -- ie, law enforcement -- are needed, even required by society to have, maintain, and exert authority.  Not so with pampered elites.

    Parent
    Not as much as you might think (none / 0) (#120)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:37:35 PM EST
    Especially if we were to stop prosecuting vice crimes such as drugs and prostitution that take up so much time and money.

    People tend to think of burglary, rape, murder when you talk about the cops protecting society.  But how much time do they really spend doing that?  I was shocked when I reviewed the trial and arraignment calendar for a local criminal court--they're online now and open to the public with a great amount of detail--and I saw case after case that dealt with the most inane trivialities.

    In addition to the legions of drug possession cases, there were numerous cases of prostitution--some of them going to trial against the woman.  Possesion of drug paraphenalia--not drugs, just the pipe, I guess. Stuff like loitering.  And, one that just floored me, a criminal case against a contractor for not having a license.  For Pete's sake, there are so many civil remedies available for something like that.

    I saw maybe two or three cases that would fit the definition of what most would think of as real crime:  assault, battery, etc.  Admittedly this was a misdemeanor court largely but felony arraignments do occur there.

    Cops have such stature because of people's fears....

    If the Seoond Amendment is now a personal, as opposed to a collective, right--that may be the way to go.

    Parent

    Had my first interaction with Medicare (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:37:20 PM EST
    yesterday afternoon. Spoke with one of their representatives to resolve some questions I had about enrolling in the system. If the gentleman I spoke to is any indication of the quality of their customer service, Medicare gets an A+.

    Excellent (none / 0) (#111)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:15:07 PM EST
    we are paying enough for it.  

    Parent
    Digby (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    Good one:
    Indeed, it is very little different than exercising your right of free speech to tell a gang of armed thugs to go f*ck themselves. It's legal, but it's not very smart. But that's the problem isn't it? We shouldn't have to make the same calculations about how to behave with police as we would with armed criminals. The police are supposed to be the good guys who follow the rules and the law and don't expect innocent citizens to bow to their brute power the same way that a street gang would do. The police are not supposed wield what is essentially brute force on the entire population.

    go read

    Watch Mika Brzezinski be racist and ignorant. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by kevsters on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:31:01 PM EST
    On Morning Joe yesterday, Mika Brzezinski made one of the more ignorant and racist statements I have heard in the mainstream media in quite sometime.

    Here is the clip.

    http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2288

    She is a piece of work (none / 0) (#92)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:36:39 PM EST
    Stupid and racist go together though.

    Parent
    Innuendo (none / 0) (#97)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:47:25 PM EST
    When you got nothing, and are stymied by cold hard fact, racist innuendo aka dogwhistles, do the trick.

    Disgusting.

    Parent

    Could we please ... (none / 0) (#114)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:27:00 PM EST
    retire the term "dog whistles" for the duration?

    I don't mind the discussion of the issue.  I'm just so sick of that cutesy term.

    Parent

    Cutesy? (none / 0) (#117)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:32:57 PM EST
    Nothing cute about it, imo.

    "Dog whistles" are deadly serious, and all too common. Are you suggesting that they do not exist, or are not a significant problem, or that it is better to just ignore them and make like they never happened.

    Really strange comment on your part, imo.

    Parent

    Can you read? (none / 0) (#118)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:36:59 PM EST
    I'm just sick of the term. It grates.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#121)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:42:47 PM EST
    I just do not understand why the term bothers you, and yes I can read. You said that you were sick of the term, I asked why.

    Because it grates. OK,

    Why does it grate? I do not share your experience.

    Did you also have a bad experience like the one jbindc claims to have had?

    Parent

    A term has never grated on ... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:53:13 PM EST
    you?

    And the link above is the wrong one, I believe.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#125)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:00:42 PM EST
    Corrected link.

    But I could explain why. Also seeing that this is a left leaning civil rights law oriented blog among other things, it is strange to me that a regular liberal commenter would be bothered by the term "dog whistle".

    I would expect that the term would bother our resident Southern "Social Liberal" ppj, but regulars? I do not get it.

    Parent

    My mom hates ... (none / 0) (#127)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:13:05 PM EST
    the use of "parent" as a verb.  That doesn't mean she didn't take raising children seriously.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#128)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:47:10 PM EST
    So, my point exactly. I am sure that she can make an argument about why she hates the term, from a grammatical or experiential point of view.

    Is it from a repressed early childhood trauma, that you have no memory access to?

    Or is it like the words Niagara Falls for some?

    Parent

    I thought about it a while ... (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:15:52 PM EST
    I think it's because it doesn't really work as a metaphor.

    The term is generally used to mean the use of code words by a racist politician (or journalist) to send a clear message to other racists.

    Well, dogs don't communicate to other dogs with dog whistles.


    Parent

    Disagree (none / 0) (#132)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:41:55 PM EST
    Dogs are social animals as are humans. Humans and their dogs form packs. The alpha, one with the dog whistle, sends off a call or a trigger, that only his or her pack members hear and understand.

    As a metaphor dog whistle, is as close to describing racist trigger words that have double meanings. The trigger word's first meaning is understood by all as its simple direct meaning, and the second silent, like a dog whistle, understood only by those in the pack.

    Of course humans are often smarter than dogs and some can be trained to actually hear dog whistles even though they are not part of the pack trained to respond to them. That is why some here can alert others to a 'dog whistle', and some still are unable to hear it.

    Parent

    Huh????? (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:59:17 PM EST
    Dog Whistles are a human invention.

    This is a dog whistle.

    And from Wiki:

    A dog whistle (also known as silent whistle or Galton's whistle) is a type of whistle used in the training of dogs and cats. It was invented by Francis Galton ...

    The frequency range of a dog whistle is largely out of the range of human hearing. Typically, a dog whistle is within the range of 16000 Hz to 22000 Hz with only the frequencies below 20000 Hz audible to the human ear. Some dog whistles have adjustable sliders for active control of the frequency produced.

    This entry also ends with this:

    Some political observers have used the phrase "dog-whistle politics" to refer to the use of words and phrases that one's political allies will recognize and appreciate but that may not mean anything to other listeners.

    It's odd that you had no idea what an actual dog whistle was.

    Kids today.

    ;)

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#135)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:03:22 PM EST
    I have used a dog whistle. Perhaps you were confused by my use of the word "alpha" of the pack. That is usually a human, most often the owner or trainer of the work dog or dogs.

    Humans and dogs form a social group with a hierarchy, often referred to as a pack.

    Parent

    Develop a sense of humor ... (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:13:40 PM EST
    Squeaky.  It will stand you in good stead in life.

    Parent
    Punt (none / 0) (#159)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 02:34:16 PM EST
    Well that is one way to squirm out of explaining why you are sick of the word "dog whistle". I have quite a good sense of humor, although I do admit that I missed the joke where you said:

    Dog Whistles are a human invention.

    [snip]

    It's odd that you had no idea what an actual dog whistle was.

    Kids today.

    Don't get the joke there.

    Or was the joke this:

    Could we please ... (none / 0) (#114)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:27:00 PM EST
    retire the term "dog whistles" for the duration?
    I don't mind the discussion of the issue.  I'm just so sick of that cutesy term.

    Well that sailed right over my head too.. Still don't get the humor there.

    And, believe it or not, I have quite a good sense of humor, although sometimes using extremely dry humor is most effective.

     

    Parent

    Sadly (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:01:55 PM EST
    There is a touch of Mika Brzezinski in most Americans these days.

    We even see it coming from liberals who are willing to trade off civil rights, so they can feel safe. They support tough on crime measures and tacitly condone an out of control population of law enforcement personnel who taser at the drop of a hat, all because, well you know there are bad apples out there, and we need protection.

    Just look at the comments here defending the police here at TL, from mostly people who identify as liberals.

    Parent

    The Obamas are going on vacation (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:36:08 AM EST
    Wonder if they'll let me tag along? I think they'll have enough room...

    Link

    The first family will have plenty of room to roam when they vacation on Martha's Vineyard next month. After looking at more than a dozen properties on the island, including, we're told, Caroline Kennedy's deluxe crib, the Obamas have settled on the 28.5-acre Blue Heron Farm in Chilmark. The expansive summer retreat, located off South Road, is owned by William and Mollie Van Devender, who paid over $20 million for the property in 2005. The Obamas's one-week rental at the end of August was first reported yesterday by the Martha's Vineyard Gazette. Terms of the deal have not been released by the White House, but real estate sources say similar properties on the island rent for up to $50,000 for one week. (Given the down real-estate market on the island, the Obamas are likely paying between $30,000-$35,000, we're told.) There had been speculation that the Obamas would wind up in Oak Bluffs, which is something of an African-American enclave, but the farm in Chilmark was the preferred option in part for its privacy. The property has a white Victorian farmhouse, a hay barn, shed, orchard, elaborate gardens, a swimming pool, golf tee, and even a basketball court.


    I would be miserable (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:49:57 AM EST
    being a vacationing family member of the first family.  When I vacation I have to explore, meet all the people, smell all the smells, see what there is to see or it feels like I went no place at all.  No matter how pretty my isolation is, it always feels like prison to me.

    Parent
    Have you read Coraline yet? (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:52:54 AM EST
    I think you'd find her familiar.

    Got the movie this week.  Nice enough, but the books are much better, partly because Coraline does not get saved at the last minute by the boy next door.  In the book, Coraline gets no help at all.  Her early AM phone call to the police (to report both of her parents missing) only gets her the friendly advice to have her mother make her a nice hot cup of cocoa and tuck her into bed.

    No scarecrow, no lion, no tin man, no cairn terrier - just Coraline, alone, up against something that pretends to be her mother.  Done properly, Coraline would have given children worse nightmares than the Wizard of Oz.

    Parent

    I haven't seen the book (none / 0) (#156)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 06:11:52 AM EST
    I suppose it is a price I pay for living in a town that doesn't even have a book store.  The Coraline dynamic in the movie had a very haunting side because I remember as a child wishing my parents away or feeling like certain adults had a sinister side or were completely out of their minds :)  The book sounds Karl Jung squared scary.  Is it a book meant to be enjoyed by little people or is it more of an adult read?

    Parent
    Um.... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:39:04 AM EST
    $30-35K for a week's vacation rental?????

    Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#24)
    by daring grace on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:30:25 AM EST
    You can really make a little income renting summer places. I have several friends who do this with their second homes every summer (keeping a time for themselves).

    Of course my friends didn't pay anything like $20M for their investment properties, and some of them hope to retire to them down the road.

    Parent

    Yeah, my reaction was more about (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:49:08 PM EST
    spending 30-35K for a vacation rental. Kind of turns my stomach.

    Parent
    Return (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:37:00 AM EST
    On $20,000,000 investment, minus taxes, insurance, upkeep, etc.

    Go for it. I would rather put the money into art, and rent for two weeks every summer.

    Parent

    Well, Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by daring grace on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:58:25 AM EST
    If I had 20M to invest I'd probably put some of it into a nice summer place for me and my family, friends.

    I've amused myself browsing the luxury real estate ads and my mind reels at the nine bedroom, eleven bath spreads with all the requisite glamour touches.

    How the other half lives indeed.

    Parent

    It's probably my age, combined with (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:02:14 PM EST
    the fact that we don't have the kind of lifestyle that "requires" those other-half mega-homes, but the one thing I usually think about when I look at those glamorous and gargantuan residences is, "Geez, what a waste - who needs all that space?" and the second thing I always ask is, "Where's all their 'stuff'?"  No magazines, no books other than the arty, coffee-table variety, no mail and bills on the kitchen counter, no keys in the dish next to the phone - no phone! - no shoes at the bottom of the stairs, no briefcase on the floor, no purse hanging off a chair or the random sweater draped over the sofa.  No dish in the sink, no bowl left out on the counter unless is was one-of-a-kind, hand-thrown pottery made by a tribe in a remote area of the Amazon rainforest.  No notes or kid-art or the mechanic's card or the shopping list or photos stuck on the fridge with magnets.

    I had a friend some years ago who never had any "stuff" in her ginormous house, either - it was the most sterile and cold home I had ever been in - it was like she was waiting for the photographer to show up any minute for the Architectural Digest spread.

    There's a house - well, that's an understatement! - at the end of my road that looks like the admin building of a major university, complete with aged-to-green copper cupola and white columned front portico - if you ever saw the movie, XXX: State of the Union (and not many did - it was fun watching the filming, though), it was the house that subbed in for the Senator's mansion - it's some 13,000 square feet and has two - 2! - bedrooms.  Two.  However, for you golfers, it also has a chipping green in the basement that runs the length of the house.  The "barn/office" is larger than my house.  We used to laugh because at one time this man - yes, one person lives in this house - had donkeys, and we used to speculate that they each had their own bedroom in the barn complete with spa-shower...when the house was still under construction, the owner wanted a zoning exception so he could put a landing strip in for his small plane (at the time that was going on, the owner put a giant boulder on the corner of the property and had the property's "name" engraved in it: FAIRFIELD; someone in the dead of night slapped mud in the "F" to make it look like AIRFIELD...); thankfully, the zoning was denied.

    Well, the house may be a huge waste of space and resources, but it does make a great landmark when giving people directions to our - very modest - house, so there's that.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by daring grace on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:09:36 PM EST
    And remember Candy and Aaron Spelling's home?

    The French chateau-style construction boasts some features sure to attract the discerning buyer. There is the silver storage room, the china room, the wine tasting room, the screening room, the bowling alley, the wine cellar, the 17,000 sq ft attic that includes a barbers and a beauty salon and, most importantly, the gift-wrapping room.

    But here's the money quote for me:

    But ask how many rooms there are, and the buyer will be met with puzzlement. Is it 100, or the 123 mentioned in some reports?

    "You're really asking the wrong person," Candy Spelling, the home's owner and widow of TV producer Aaron Spelling, said. "There's a lot. [The house] has evolved and I actually haven't gone around and counted."



    Parent
    Oh, Anne.... (none / 0) (#94)
    by vml68 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:38:02 PM EST
    thing I always ask is, "Where's all their 'stuff'?"  No magazines, no books other than the arty, coffee-table variety, no mail and bills on the kitchen counter, no keys in the dish next to the phone - no phone! - no shoes at the bottom of the stairs, no briefcase on the floor, no purse hanging off a chair or the random sweater draped over the sofa.  No dish in the sink, no bowl left out on the counter

    You don't need keys to your home when your butler/housekeeper is always there to open the door for you. The maids make sure everything is in its rightful place and the secretaries take care of the mail/bills.
    Honestly, do I have to explain everything to you plebians! <snark>

    My suggestion for combating a cold, sterile looking home...keep a dog or a cat. I don't care how thoroughly you clean, vacuum, dust your home and groom your animal, there's always going to be a few hairs floating around... :-)

    Parent

    How very interesting (none / 0) (#15)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:36:42 AM EST
    that after slamming white cops for being racist and stupid while actually not know anything about the case and then having to apologize for HIS racist remarks...

    that Obama is going to vacation in Lily White Martha's Vineyard!

    Talk about not Walking the Walk.

    Parent

    Is there another Martha's Vineyard (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:48:01 AM EST
    somewhere you're referring to?  The one the Obamas are going to, you know, the one off the Massachusetts coast, isn't anything close to lily white, so I assume you have it confused with another one somewhere else.

    Parent
    Must admit (none / 0) (#20)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:10:19 AM EST
    it has been about 15 years since I vacationed there and I don't remember seeing one person of color even working there. Things may have changed.

    Parent
    Oh, Mike (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by daring grace on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:40:16 AM EST
    Apparently, you missed a lot while vacationing on the Vineyard.

    According to this article, there has been a thriving AA community on MV for generations--there's even a brewing controversy thanks to a recent article in New York magazine about supposed class/elitism issues there among the AA community.

    And, hey, Skip Gates even summers there sometimes!

    Parent

    Mr. Gates owns a home there. (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by talesoftwokitties on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:43:28 AM EST
    Maybe Obama, the cop and Skip can have a beer at the Vineyard!

    Parent
    What kind of beer? (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Pianobuff on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:32:05 PM EST
    A six pack of "Hops and Change".

    Parent
    Never saw them (none / 0) (#44)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:50:05 AM EST
    But according to your article there is a lot of segregation going on in Martha's with all the different races. So I guess I'm not far off base in my comment or observation. Segregation is segregation.

    Interesting that the article was written by a Black man.

    So where is Obama vacationing? In the White section of Martha's or the Black section? Heh.

    Parent

    Keep trying, keep trying (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:57:02 PM EST
    There are very few genuinely integrated communities in the U.S.  Interestingly enough, one of them is the area of Cambridge where the dread Sergeant Crowley grew up.  I grew up there, too.

    Martha's Vineyard has not "changed."  It's had a large and thriving middle and upper-middle class African-American vacation community practically forever, one of the first, if not the first, in the U.S.  It's a really pretty community, and right in the center of the action on MV, with a large park and bandstand right in the center that holds community events a couple times a week that people come to from all over the island.

    The wealthier parts of the island, with the big estates and miles of empty dunes, are inhabited by <gasp!> wealthy people, including African-American wealthy people.

    If you saw only white people when you visited, you must have been hanging out in some odd corners of the island.

    Parent

    I saw what I saw (none / 0) (#139)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:24:25 PM EST
    and didn't see what I didn't see. Is that OK with you? Maybe because I was at MV in the late fall had something to do with it, it was not exactly peak season which was kind of nice really. Other than that visit I don't know anything about the segregation at MV because for me it was a 'vacation spot' not a place to study racism or segregation or who owns this home or that one. Gezz!

    Parent
    "Gezz" indeed (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 08:46:45 AM EST
    The entire point being that it's flat-out wrong to make a sweeping and judgmental generalization from one tiny experience that may or may not have been typical.

    Parent
    This gross exaggeration reminds me a little (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:53:01 AM EST
    of the folks that were screaming that Letterman advocated rape.

    Parent
    Well, since you brought it up (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:08:49 AM EST
    It is hard to believe that this would have happened to Gates if he were white.

    According to Crowley's own report, Gates appeared to him to be a "resident" even before Crowley entered the house.  He knew standing outside that Gates, who was inside, was a "resident."  While standing outside, Crowley says he saw, through the glass window of the door, Gates use a "cordless telephone"--not a cell, but a cordless telephone, and call a number asking for the "chief."

    So, Crowley knew Gates was a resident from the start.  This is what Crowley states in his own report.

    This would not have happened to Gates if he were white.  First, it is unlikely that his next door neighbor, as well-intenioned as she was, would have called the cops in the first place.  Gates is in his late 50s, walks with cane, and was wearing a Polo shirt.  A white guy looking like that doesn't typically arouse suspicion as a burglar.

    Next, if a cop knew that a middle age white guy wearing a Polo shirt was a "resident"--again that was Crowley's word--it is unlikely he would have continued to hang around and escalate the situation.  

    Gates's first response--according to Crowley--was to pick up a cordless telephone and call for the "chief" and accuse Crowley of racial profiling.  Is that what a burglar would do?  Crowley knew from the start that this was no burglary.  Crowley was ticked off because Gates was calling the chief and accusing him of racial profiling.  But when this happened, Crowley was still outside the house and had concluded that Gates was a resident--again according to Crowley's own report.  

    Crowley continued to prolong and escalate the incident.  Why would he stay one minute longer after he knew that Gates was a "resident?"  To hassle and harass a black man who had accused him of racial profiling?


    Parent

    Yes, "appeared" (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:06:33 PM EST
    is crucial.  Then a cop has to confirm.  The rest flows from that crucial understanding.  See it?

    Or would it be better for a cop to say, "well, it appeared okay, so I didn't check any farther" -- and it turned out that it was not Gates but someone sacking his home?  Then the cops could be accused of not fully responding to a potential robbery of Gates' home.

    Parent

    Or. worse (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:19:52 PM EST
    Decided Gates appeared to be the resident, so didn't investigate. Gates later found beaten and robbed...oh my, the outcry!! That officer had an obligation to investigate the call, which said TWO men were breaking in. The threads here would still be calling the officer names, claiming he did his job wrong, and his decision to walk away without investigating was race motivated.

    I've given up trying to figure out exactly what most of the commenters here think Crowley should have done. (Up to the arrest, that is. No one here has said the arrest was the right outcome.)

    Parent

    Crowley should (none / 0) (#84)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:24:09 PM EST
    have left at minimum as soon as he saw the Harvard photo ID and called the Harvard police.  He should have apologized and left the mans's house and waited outside in his cruiser, if he really still had any doubt, until the Harvard cops came.

    And that is giving Crowley the benefit of the doubt.

    And I never want to see a cop anywhere near my home.    

    Parent

    No address on campus ID (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:28:17 PM EST
    not to mention that there are lots of fake campus IDs -- my campus cops deal with them all the time from people who are not students or faculty but have them to appear to be part of the campus community.  (Of course, anyone can go on a campus -- but not everyone is supposed to use its services, hang around its dorms to get let in to students' rooms, etc.)

    The cop needed an ID with Gates' address on it to verify that Gates was in his own house.  That's all.

    Parent

    lol (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:43:02 PM EST
    If there was any doubt about Gates being illegally in someone's home Crowley would have arrested Gates and tasered him if he resisted within two minutes of entering Gates home.

    The rest is pro tasering, cop loving tough on crime Giuliani  BS. It is the same mentality that gives a free pass to the Government for torturing "suspected" terrorists, indefinite incarceration without a trial, secret prisons... etc

    all to make WATB americans feel safe.. It is f*cking nonsense.

    Go read digby, she says it much better than I ever could.

    Parent

    Thanks--digby did say it so well. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:58:54 PM EST
    As Always (none / 0) (#126)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:04:25 PM EST
    Digby has been following taser incidents and other incidents where the police overstep their authority,  for quite a while.

    Her writing is really good, as well.

    Parent

    I will have a hard time listening (none / 0) (#122)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:45:24 PM EST
    to arguments from the pro-Crowley side about detentions and FISA.  

    Sure, it's all about not giving up liberty for security--unless you are talking about the cops...

    Parent

    That's a good read (none / 0) (#143)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:04:24 PM EST
    and the larger points are good.  But I don't see either Digby -- or you -- addressing the point about a campus ID.  

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#148)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:29:01 PM EST
    At worst, Crowley should have gone outside, sat in his car until the Harvard Police came. At best, Crowley should have apologized, said have a good day and left.

    I am sure that this was not the first time Crowley responded to a burglary only to find out that the call in misidentified the owner for a burglar.

    It is more than obvious that in less than two minutes Crowley knew that Gates was in his home and not a burglar.

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#149)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:30:46 PM EST
    And that is going by Crowleys report. Gates reported a different episode through his attorney. In Gates version he handed over his Harvard ID along with his MA drivers license.

    Parent
    But, "appeared" means you are (none / 0) (#57)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:28:27 PM EST
    dealing with someone who is likely the owner....

    That means you don't get to harass them.  That means you don't overreact if they call you a racist--it is their home.  That means you as cop are very deferential to someone in their castle.   "I'm sorry, sir; just routine, sir." That means you leave ASAP.

    Even though Crowley said Gates appeared to be a resident and was using a cordless telephone, and even though he did see ID showing Gates to be a Harvard prof, he still stayed....Just how likely is it that a Harvard prof who "appears" to a resident, who uses a cordless telephone, who is Harvard Prof, is going to be a burglar?  But, yeah, the cop had to be sure.  So he then called out the Harvard cops....and he stayed...

    Complaining about FISA and indefinite detention but taking the cop's side in this?  

    Parent

    If (big if) the police report is (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:32:45 PM EST
    to be believed, by the time that the cop got verification that Gates was at his own address, the situation already had escalated with Gates saying the cop was being racist.

    Now, you see harassment immediately.  That then would be the request for an ID with an address.  That is not inherently harassment.  So the question is how the cop handled the request.  Again, that is where we get into two different stories -- the copy saying he was asking courteously but Gates already was angry and yelling vs. Gates saying that it was harassment, so it must mean that he saw the cop not asking courteously.

    Again and again, we need the tapes, etc., to see how we see the request being made -- as a polite request, as a discourteous demand, etc.

    Parent

    Btw, this is very close to a crime (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:37:13 PM EST
    description in my neighborhood.  Guys in the house, acting like they belonged there.  Luckily, based on a call from a neighbor who thought that the owners were still to be out of town, the cops acted exactly as Crowley says he did.  And the cops here collared the guys, in part by asking for IDs with that address.

    Now, the cops could have said that the guys "appeared" to be residents who must have come back early, or the neighbor had the wrong dates for their trip or something, and the cops could have decided not to knock on the door, ask for IDs, etc.

    And then the cops would be attacked for not doing their job and just going from "appearances" or even "racial profiling" -- since the guys in the break-in in my neighborhood were white.

    Parent

    And again (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:24:39 PM EST
    it wasn't his "next door neighbor (please stop repeating that untruth) - it was a lady who worked in the neighborhood.  Do you know everyone who lives in the neighborhood where you work?

    Parent
    I'm beginning to see why so many (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:34:51 PM EST
    innocent people are in prison.  Lots of people like MKS make an instant judgment based on a few bits of information, faulty information included, and can't open their mind to any other possible truth.


    Parent
    Actually, I am commenting on Crowley's (none / 0) (#73)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:46:27 PM EST
    report.  My point was not whether she was a neighbor or not but about Gate's appearance.  But I understand your point.

    And, nice try at irony.  It is very, very unlikely that I would ever give a statement to a cop or make an accusation to the authorities.  My response to a cop who asks questions would most likely be, show me the subpoena.  And, if they have one, and I have to appear in front of a grand jury, I take the fifth until I get written immunity.  And then I exercise every privilege I can think of: attorney/client and since I am an attorney that would cover a lot, spousal, doctor- patient, clergy, tax return, etc.  I doubt the cops will have much interest in talking to me.

    I won't be making a false accusation against anyone.  

    Parent

    Basically Was (5.00 / 0) (#79)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Lucia Whalen is fundraiser for Harvard Magazine. She worked next door at the Harvard Crimson.

    I call the people I see every day who work next door neighbors, not sure why you would want to portray her as someone who worked in the neighborhood when she worked next door to Gates.

    Most likely it could be because of your personal trauma, that would explain it. I am sorry you had to go through all that.

    Parent

    Not my point (none / 0) (#64)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:36:42 PM EST
    that she should have known him.

     My point was about Gates's appearance.  If he were white, it is more likely the witness would have thought nothing of Gates trying to get in through a cranky door.  He would be more likely to get the benefit of the doubt.  I don't blame the witness, just note the phenomenon.

    Gates looks like a bookworm professor to me--late 50s, slight and polo shirt with cane.  He looks like a burlgar to others.  Unconscious stereotyping--it happens.  Surely that is not earth shattering news.

    I can't tell you how many times I've had trouble with my door--a duplicate key that wasn't made very well, etc.  The last thing I would expect, or want, is a cop with attitude asking me for ID in my own home.

    Parent

    Well, then (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:44:06 PM EST
    I guess you wouldn't be a very good "neighbor", then, because I would hope someone would call the cops if they saw two men in attempting to "break in" to my house.  Maybe tougher folks would stop and question them, but as a woman, I'd likely call the cops first  - black, brown, green, purple, white, or orange.

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#74)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:47:36 PM EST
    perhaps a man would have ignored the situation. Women, on the other hand, are more protective of the sanctity of the home. They do what they would want others to do for them.

    Parent
    I've called out, "Can I help you sir' (none / 0) (#75)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:49:28 PM EST
    more than once...

    I might call the cops--but it depends....Calling the cops is inviting a lot of scrutiny.  I don't do drugs but what if my neighbors do?  I am not all that eager to reign down that on others...

    Parent

    I see your point--my first reaction (none / 0) (#81)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:11:31 PM EST
    is not that cops are there to help--they are there to arrest someone.....I would be loathe to call them.....I would prefer going to my neighbor for help.

    And, the only people nowadays that I find physically threatening are cops.  I've made wrong turns in less than stellar neighborhoods but never felt as worried as with the cops.  They are armed and generally have macho attitudes and can call on countless soldiers to back them up....

    My attitude is that the Bill of Rights is an anti-cop manifesto.  Well, I suppose a better way to put it is that Bill of Rights is a protection against police miscondcuct--it is not about protecting you from other citizens but from the cops.

    Parent

    There were TWO men trying to get that door (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:46:09 PM EST
    open. Describe the other man.

    Parent
    He was black. (none / 0) (#76)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:52:01 PM EST
    There were two black men--with backpacks.  If they were white, would the witness, and again I'm not blaming her, have seen it as an middle age man with a cane being helped with his luggage--the truth?  Less likely to see two burglars?

    Parent
    A cabdriver had a backpack on him? (none / 0) (#85)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:25:37 PM EST
    I read that the other guy was Gates' cabdriver.  Why would he wear a backpack to help Gates with his door?  Or is this another change in the story?

    Parent
    We are only talking about Crowley's (none / 0) (#91)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:36:12 PM EST
    story here.

    I'm sure Gates has a different view.

    The Crowley report states the witness reported she saw: "....two black males with backpacks on the porch...."

    Not "wearing"....Who assumed that?

    Since the truth was that is was the owner and a cabbie helping Gates with his luggage , I doubt they were "wearing" the backpacks....Even if the witness saw and reported that--and she did not--it would likely be a false memory.  And we know that can happen to African American suspects.

    Parent

    Ah, you make good sense (none / 0) (#141)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:00:13 PM EST
    that the cabdriver could have been helping with Gates' luggage -- especially if poor Prof. Gates had to haul two backpacks.  (I would bet that he actually would have had a backpack and a computer bag of some sort, as two backpacks could break a back.:-)

    Parent
    You really need to have the facts (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:00:38 PM EST
    straight before you start pronouncing judgment.  You've got a whole bunch of them wrong in your "analysis" (ie, your predetermined scenario).

    Parent
    Okay, but for the umpteenth time (none / 0) (#113)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:19:05 PM EST
    I am reading directly from the cop's own account, not reading second-hand summaries in the papers.

    What facts do I have wrong?

    Parent

    Well Obama (none / 0) (#46)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:00:27 PM EST
    painted a different picture yesterday during his apology and said Gates contributed to his arrest by his own voluntary actions.

    But the point is not who was right, Crowley or Gates. The point is Obama said he had no idea of what exactly happened and then launched into calling the cops 'stupid' (again, not knowing what actually happened) and then suggested racism could have been an issue (again, not knowing what actually happened).

    Obama caused the entire national dustup by pointing a finger at racism when he had no idea wtf actually took place when he opened his mouth.

    BTW it was Gates according to police reports who started to cry racism not Crowley. Crowley was just responding to a possible burglary call reported by a good neighbor.

    I think Blacks like Obama and Gates and others need to get a grip and quit decrying racism every time a cop is only doing his job.

    Parent

    I disagree (none / 0) (#52)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:17:09 PM EST
    The point is about out of control cops....Obama had to say what he did.  He was right the first time--although it was not a good idea to have said it.

    Sure, Crowley responded--initially--to a burglary call.  But he knew it was not a burglary right away.  But he stayed and stayed and argued and argued....

    If it were my house and a cop came to the door asking for ID, I would sure as h*ll be very, very suspicious and want the cop gone--like pronto....

    A close reading, well, even a cursory reading, of Crowley's report shows he was wrong and should have left right away. And, you assume Crowley did not embellish or lie.  From personal experience, cops lie all the time.

    And, I  tire of the tedious genuflection in the beginning of any article on cops to their putting their lives on the line.  TPM had the stats...Being a cop is the tenth most dangerous job--behind my old profession of being a construction laborer, which is sixth.  And, half of the deaths of cops are caused by traffic accidents....

    Cops respond nowadays in overwhelming force if they only get a whiff of something.  That's why Francine Busby's fundraiser had a helicopter, several squad cars, and  K-9 unit appear outside her supporter's residence in Cardiff, California.

    You can see routine traffic stops on the side of the road with two and three squad cars....  

    Parent

    Take a gander at this - (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:29:10 PM EST
    I think it's an interesting perspective that might bear considering:

    Being home while black

    I have to say I feel for Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., who was arrested last week by police acting on a report of a burglary at his house.

    Turns out the "burglar" was Mr. Gates himself, whom a neighbor had spotted struggling to unlock a stuck front door at his house after returning from a trip abroad. When police arrived a few minutes later, after Mr. Gates had gained entry to his place, things somehow went wacko.

    Earlier this week, I reported on The Sun's editorial page blog (baltimoresun.com/secondopinion) that a similar mix-up happened to me some years ago, shortly after my family moved into a house in Baltimore's Homeland neighborhood. Someone saw me emptying the trash one evening and called the police.

    I was in the kitchen finishing up the dinner dishes when they knocked on the back door; when I opened it they entered and asked if I lived there.

    In the end I had to show my driver's license, then call my wife and daughter downstairs to vouch for me.

    Unlike Mr. Gates, however, I didn't automatically assume the two officers were racists; one of them was white, the other African-American. I figured they were just doing their job and that they probably were as wary of me as I was of them. In any case, they both managed to be civil, while remaining professionally vigilant, until my story checked out. And I was ever the mild-mannered editorialist, though I didn't mention where I worked.

    Eventually they satisfied themselves that everything was OK and left. I didn't demand an apology, and they didn't offer one.

    Afterward, I wondered whether I should have been more indignant, as Mr. Gates apparently was. I had made an instant judgment that there was no point in escalating a situation with a potential to turn nasty, especially with loved ones in the house.

    We all bring to such encounters our unique personal histories and agendas. The truth is, that evening I just wasn't into making a federal civil rights case out of an obvious misunderstanding, even if the mistake did hinge on the ever touchy subject of race.

    Meek as it may make me sound, all I really wanted at the time was to get the dishwasher going, cut the lights and call it a night.

    Reader responses to the blog, a sampling of which are printed below, ran the gamut from nods for keeping cool in a dicey situation to reproaches for wimping out on a challenge to my manhood. One reader wondered whether I would have done the same if my wife and kid hadn't been there; another observed it's never a good idea to provoke the police, even if one feels they're way out of line.

    Some readers thought the real reason Mr. Gates was arrested was because police perceived him as "uppity" - a black man who didn't show proper deference to authority. But among those who considered how a white man would have been treated for mouthing off the same way, opinion seemed split pretty much down the middle - and not obviously along racial lines.

    The debate over Mr. Gates grew even louder, of course, after President Barack Obama said at a press conference Wednesday that Cambridge police behaved "stupidly" by arresting Mr. Gates, whom he described as a personal friend, even after he had produced a driver's license and university ID proving he was the house's rightful occupant. Mr. Obama went on to condemn racial profiling, a tactic he suggested encourages police to view any person of color as a potential criminal suspect, no matter how upstanding or distinguished he or she may be.

    Mr. Obama's comment made me reconsider my own reaction that long-ago evening. Yes, I did have a momentary impulse not to cooperate with what seemed an unfair and insulting inquiry into whether I belonged in my own house. And yes, I was angry and intimidated by two guys with guns barging into my kitchen.

    But trying to treat them civilly wasn't just an act, either. I really did feel something like a moral responsibility to straighten things out in a way that left us all a little wiser. Not every situation calls for confrontation (though a few years later, in a very different context, I did put up a fight when I suspected I and others had been targets of intentional discrimination).

    The great black scholar W.E.B. DuBois wrote that all African-Americans suffer from what he called "double consciousness" - an awareness not only of who we are as individuals but also of how we are perceived by a larger society that long was taught to regard us with contempt. Even in the Age of Obama, this is a reality black people still live with. The day after Mr. Obama's remarks, for example, a black co-worker at the office told me a new white colleague recently encountered her in the ladies' room and for a moment assumed she was the maid.

    I imagine that, however well-intentioned, whoever called to report me taking out the trash suffered a similar social myopia. But that wasn't the police's fault, and I think by the time they left they had pretty much figured out for themselves what had transpired: Neighbor sees black guy in yard and panics. It probably happens every day, but on that occasion it was left to me and the two cops in my kitchen to sort the tangled threads of our country's absurd and tragic racial history. Treating them the way I'd like to be treated myself seemed like a good place to start.

    Thoughtful and well-reasoned.

    Parent

    Possible (none / 0) (#69)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:43:55 PM EST
    out of control cops versus out of control elites.  Who always wins?

    Personally, I'd much rather be a rich, famous, AA Harvard Teevee personality and professor than a lowly, middle class cop.

    Any day, any day.

    I think we lowly non-elites would never find it in our right to go ballistic on a cop.  But of course, we know our place, as do elite, special people, like Gates.

    Parent

    A white cop versus a Harard professor (none / 0) (#78)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:56:59 PM EST
    Surely, the outcome of that is not all that much of a surprise--the cop wins of course....He has the public with him now.  And, half of the commenters on this blog, a blog of the left devoted to crime, support him over Gates.

    And, Gates lost becasue he went to jail.  Please try to remember that.  He paid a high price for gving the cop lip.  Going to jail ain't nothing.

    Parent

    See, the thing is (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    Everyone here is acting as if Crowley was the only cop there - there were multiple cops of all different races, who were present.  So, or all of those cops picking on a poor, old black man with a cane?

    Parent
    No, it was the lead cop (none / 0) (#98)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:48:48 PM EST
    and the only cop who went inside the house....

    And why are there so many cops there when Crowley concluded so quickly that Gates appeared to be a resident?

    Parent

    Read the report, and news publications (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:54:35 PM EST
    you are keeping your information sources too narrow.

    The answers to all your questions have been published on multiple news sites. The thing that is so obvious in your comments is that you are not open to all the information available if the facts don't support your conclusion.

    Parent

    Sure, I am (none / 0) (#108)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:08:17 PM EST
    I take Crowley at his word, and I know cops can and do lie....

    The Crowley report seems to me the best evidence.  It is first hand  contemporaneous account through the eyes of Crowley....

    If I were to be so closed, I would go by what Gates says.

    Is there something else better out there that helps Crowley?

    And talk about bias, the pro-Crowley folks here do not appear for one minute to try and listen to Gates's side, or to even consider the possibility that Crowley might by lying or embellishing.  Why do so many of you accept as Gospel Crowley's account?  I do for purposes of this discussion because so many of you are closed to seeing this issue from Gates's perspective--quite telling that, and very, very disappointing.

    The attitude among too many is that Gates deserved it becasue he talked back to the cop, who was just doing his job.  Hook, line and sinker some of you are for the cop.  

    So, I work with the cop's own statement.  When and if you take Gates's comments at face value and assume they are true, then you will have a more persuasive argument about being "open."

    Parent

    Crowd of Cops (none / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:50:22 PM EST
    Eating popcorn and watching de show.

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#158)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 10:15:25 AM EST
    The event was transmitted over an open radio.

    I guess the real question is - without knowing the facts, why do you ASSUME that this is all about racism on Crowley's part?  Both parties are putting spin on this so their side looks better.

    Parent

    No one forgets that point, and everyone (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:30:35 PM EST
    has said that was the wrong outcome.

    The judgments keep returning to the false statements and assumptions that got this event to explode. Some of us want to hear the whole story on those elements before we decide how it could have been handled better.

    Crowley has been drawn and quartered. Some of us really have a problem seeing that happen. If a complete review of the incident concludes Crowley used prejudice as his driving motivator, I will be 100% behind him being put on a desk where he can't encounter the public.

    Parent

    We are giving Crowley the benefit (none / 0) (#102)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:50:49 PM EST
    of the doubt by going by his report.  We are assuming everything he said in his report is 100% accurate.  That is being more than fair to Crowley.

    We know enough to make certain judgments....

    Parent

    Not just prejudice but abuse of power (none / 0) (#112)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:15:58 PM EST
    Even if he were not racially motivated, there is still the issue of wrongfully arresting someone in his own home.

    Parent
    The cops were not (none / 0) (#87)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:29:32 PM EST
    out of control. It was Gates who started yelling at them. Take your frigging blinders of dude. You have enough people here already disagreeing with you in intelligent posts. Get a clue. Gates screwed up and so did Obama because to Obama's own admission he did not know the detail before he injected race into his response.

    But in the end it was about race. But instead of the copes being racial it was Gates who was.

    Gates and Obama introduced race. The cops were just responding to a call and doing their job.

    BTW, one of Crowley's partners on the scene was a Black cop. He arrested Gates also.

    Parent

    I'm not your dude (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:46:15 PM EST
    And, you don't address my points.  I'm not talking about Obama.

    And I think many would say that the cop should not have arrested Gates.  I don't care if Gates unleashed an operatic aria on the cop.  He was being hassled in his own house.  He did not want the cops there.

    There was not even a whiff of an assertion that Crowley thought he was ever in phyiscial danger--I think we would have seen that in a report justifying the arrest.

    The black cop was there--but who was making the decisions?  And, who was senior?  That fact does help Crowley but I would like to see how enthusiastic the black cop is in backing up Crowley.

     

    Parent

    Blk cop back him up yesterday (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    and they are both Srgts. I'm sure there's plenty of video floating around as I believe he was shown walking in during the PC and interviewed/spoken to

    Parent
    I know he has backed him up (none / 0) (#103)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:53:14 PM EST
    But Crowley controlled the scene.  

    But I would still like to see more from thi other cops--that would be interesting, but Crowley's own report damns him.  

    Crowley responded alone and thus that would indicate that much of what happened at least initially was before the other cops got there...

    Parent

    More (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:42:55 AM EST
    However, here are some mitigating factors worth considering. First, they're not renting the entire farm. ...

    ...it appears that the rental agreement will be split into three leases: one to be held by the Obamas, another by the Secret Service and a third by a White House entourage.

    Second, they are paying their own way--according to sources, the Obamas are treating the transaction as a standard summer rental, from payment terms right down to requesting permission to bring the family dog. In contrast, Bill Clinton, the last sitting president on the Vineyard--and a professional schnorrer--shacked up rent-free for six summers of his presidency at the palatial digs of party donors and political pals. The Clintons were put up at the compound of Democratic donor and Boston real-estate developer Richard Friedman and that of the late Robert McNamara, all without forking out a penny.

    Third, the rental options for a first family seeking peace and quiet in the post 9/11 world are severely limited. The choice of Blue Heron Farm concludes a thorough, months-long investigation of possible properties by the Secret Service and senior White House aides. The advance team has looked at and rejected more than 20 rentals.

    link


    Parent

    President (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by daring grace on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:01:33 AM EST
    Renting A Posh Vacation Home: est: $30-$35K.

    Nation not having to watch folksy prez clearing brush on his own humble 'ranch':   PRICELESS

    Parent

    $30-$35K (none / 0) (#51)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:08:58 PM EST
    for a few weeks while Rome burns and people b*tch about executive pay! LOL

    Nice move Barry! First you drag out racism with no cause and now you are showing the nation that for a week or so you can forget about their problems while you live like an AIG executive. Brilliant.

    Parent

    have you always been this vacuuous, (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by cpinva on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:39:02 PM EST
    Nice move Barry! First you drag out racism with no cause and now you are showing the nation that for a week or so you can forget about their problems while you live like an AIG executive. Brilliant.

    or do you save it up for here? heck, you're not even very good vacuuous, just............empty.

    since the obvious escapes you, let me clear it up:

    AIG Bonuses - our tax dollars

    obama vacation rental fee - obama's personal funds

    see the difference?

    Parent

    Nice change of the topic (none / 0) (#82)
    by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:18:34 PM EST
    Nice try anyway. My point is not about TARP money or personal money. My point is that Obama lives just like the Street executives that everyone loves to hate. He is vacationing with them. Renting the same properties as them. All while Rome burns and people are out of jobs.

    Now of course it would be too much to expect for him to take a more modest but just as relaxing of a vacation wouldn't it?

    BTW genius. The AIG "LOANS", as are the other TARP loans, are paying us millions in interest until they get paid back in full. As a supposedly CPA I would think you would know that. But no. People like you like to paint it as a cash giveaway and it is not.

    And taxpayer dollars? Show me where that money was taken from other programs. Much of that money went to prop up suffering State governments. In other words that is federal money going to State run programs. The rest of the money is being loaned to keep or financial system from going into complete collapse and avoid a depression. You have no idea what you are taking about.

    Parent

    At least it's an American vacation (none / 0) (#55)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:24:21 PM EST
    Not that the money spent will go too far out of the hands of the person who owns the place, but he could have chosen some foreign destination with that money.


    Parent
    Speaking of "mitigating" (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by NYShooter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:52:47 AM EST
    The Clintons were in hock up to their eyeballs, courtesy of Mr. Starr; the Obamas are millionaires.

    Of course, Bill and Chelsea could've always built a tree house in the rose garden, you know, hot dogs and marshmellows.......Hillary, cookies......lol

    Parent

    lol (none / 0) (#77)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:54:46 PM EST
    Compared to the Clintons the Obama's are working class. They were not in debt until the end of the 8 years. One year after they were back to making millions. If remember correctly $111 mil first year out of office.

    Here are Bill Clintons Tax returns 1992-1999

    Millionaires too. And yes I did sense a major CDS in the description of Bill as

    a professional schnorrer


    Parent
    table crumbs (none / 0) (#133)
    by NYShooter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:54:55 PM EST
    2,3,400,000 K, except one year (1,000,000)

    and I don't know what the C's lawyers were charging, but if my barrister, Tony ("four-thumbs") Dumbrowski charges (read extorts) $385/hour, I think you can add a zero to the happy White House couples'.

    But, you're right, Bubba made up for lost time real quick after they dragged him out from Pennsylvania Ave.

    Barry, learning from Billy, was smarter; Get the Gelt first!

    Parent

    Graham defends his support for Sotomayor (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:41:00 AM EST

    When Sen. Lindsey Graham announced his support for Sonia Sotomayor this week, right-wing radio talk show host Mark Levin said it was a sign that Graham is "unreliable ... as a thinker and a leader."

    Wendy Long, counsel for the conservative Judicial Confirmation Network, called it proof that Graham "still lacks courage, statesmanship and an understanding of the Constitution and rule of law."

    "May his antics get the attention they richly deserve."

    The response from Graham: Enjoy life in the minority.

    In an interview with POLITICO Thursday, the South Carolina Republican defended his decision to back Sotomayor by laying out a broad critique of conservative activists who push "ideological purity" and refuse to cooperate with a Democratic Congress and White House.

    "If we chase this attitude ... that you have to say `no' to every Democratic proposal, you can't help the president ever, you can't ever reach across the aisle, then I don't want to be part of the movement because it's a dead-end movement," Graham said.

    "I have no desire to be up here in an irrelevant status. I'm smart enough to know that this country doesn't have a problem with conservatives. It has a problem with blind ideology. And those who are ideological-driven to a fault are never going to be able to take this party back into relevancy."



    Is there anything MORE UnAmerican (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:56:30 AM EST
    than completely abandoning all welfare and needs of your nation, even making detrimental votes, because you are pissed that your party isn't running anything and was voted out of power by the people?  I could almost consider that type of a thinking and action a form of political terrrorism.

    Parent
    It's like being in bizzaro world (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:46:36 AM EST
    I love that the "Judicial Confirmation Network" is advocating against confirmation.

    Parent
    Who or what is the Judicial (none / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:52:57 AM EST
    Confirmation Network?

    Parent
    Right wing activists (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:55:09 AM EST
    who used to agitate for the nuclear option IIRC.

    Parent
    They have the intellectual integrity (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:57:53 AM EST
    of the Heritage Foundation?

    Parent
    Gawd, and when I use the google (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:02:26 AM EST
    and I get to spelling out Judicial Confirmation, Google's fifth suggestion in the dumby window is Network.  That was disheartening :)

    Parent
    But you gotta love them (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:03:51 AM EST
    They claim on their website that Lindsey Graham is more of a judicial activist than Sotomayor herself is :)

    Parent
    For those who fly the friendly skies (none / 0) (#12)
    by Rojas on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:16:50 AM EST
    activism

    Warning:  This link contains country music

    That guy's got talent! (none / 0) (#48)
    by NYShooter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 12:06:12 PM EST
    Thanks....

    Parent
    Lance held on (none / 0) (#18)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:52:39 AM EST
    His third place would be a career year for many cyclists.  He just upped his marketability immensely.

    Gnarly stage.

    Andy Schleck is incredible, did most of the work the entire way up.

    Mental illness and crime (none / 0) (#19)
    by Manuel on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:06:39 AM EST
    Is there anything we can do as a society to prevent tragedies like this one?
    Preventive detention has too much potential for abuse but is there some way to balance safety and individual rights?  Should people be required to take their medication?  How could you even enforce that?  Is the answer to secure our home and family as best we can against attacks by the mentally ill?  Finally, are the ranks of violent mentally ill people increasing, decreasing, or staying about the same?

    Mental illness and crime (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:02:44 AM EST
    often go hand in hand.  I could name a handful of disorders that could lead to a pattern of risky and/or criminal behavior.

    Unfortunately, mental illness is still highly stigmatized in this culture, which means that disorders are often ignored or hidden and thus, untreated.  

    If you want to keep your families safe, ask Congress to create Universal Health Care that included mental health care.   Be kind to those you know who are struggling with their own illnesses and encourage them to seek treatment.  

    Parent

    NJ Corruption (none / 0) (#83)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 01:21:56 PM EST
    Entertaining read:

    Take it from me, there is only one certain method for determining whether someone is from New Jersey or not: They will refer to a trip to the beach as going "down the shore." However, the handcuffs are another dead giveaway.

    Once again, my home state has been thrust into the limelight in a massive corruption case that involves a failed philanthropist named Solomon Dwek who lived, appropriately enough in a town called Deal (which is, as any Jerseyite knows, "down the shore"), a guy from Brooklyn named Levy-Izhak Rosenbaum who could get you a slightly used pancreas for a good price, a bunch of rabbis who laundered money through charities they controlled, cash from Israel, bankers in Switzerland, the mayors of Hoboken and Jersey City (where it is fair to say this case is not the first to offer a whiff of scandal), a member of Governor Jon Corzine's cabinet and a host of other bit players who you might find milling around catching a smoke outside the Vince Lombardi Service Area on the New Jersey Turnpike.

    David Rothkopf via war & piece


    Really It's Over (none / 0) (#115)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:28:50 PM EST
    At least the chapter between Gates, Crowley, the Police Union  and Obama.

    Professor Henry Louis Gates said Saturday he was willing to have a peace-making beer with Obama and Cambridge, Massachusetts, police Sgt. James Crowley.

    [snip]

    "I am pleased that he, too, is eager to use my experience as a teaching moment, and if meeting Sgt. Crowley for a beer with the president will further that end, then I would be happy to oblige," Gates said in a statement on TheRoot.com, an Internet newsletter he edits.

    Gates said he hoped his arrest would help reduce racial profiling by law enforcement agencies.

    Reuters

    and this:

    Steve Killion, president of the Cambridge patrol officers association, praised the president for calling James Crowley only a couple of hours after the news conference where leaders from Cambridge and other area police unions demanded an apology from Obama.

    "I'm sure, knowing Sergeant Crowley, it's mended the fence with him,'' said Killion, who had not spoken with Crowley. "It's gone some way toward mending the fence with the patrol officers, even though I haven't spoken with any of them yet.''

    Killion said the president has admitted he erred by discussing a case without knowing the details.

    link


    This one quote is hilarious ... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:32:55 PM EST
    "It's gone some way toward mending the fence with the patrol officers, even though I haven't spoken with any of them yet.''


    Parent
    Since we are nitpicking.... (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by vml68 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:47:53 PM EST
    I am pleased that he, too, is eager to use my experience as a teaching moment, and if meeting Sgt. Crowley for a beer with the president will further that end, then I would be happy to oblige
    (bolding mine)

    How about saying "our experience" and the phrase "happy to oblige" implies doing someone a favor......very magnanimous of Mr Gates to do the POTUS and Sgt Crowley a favor!

    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#130)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:00:31 PM EST
    Gates can only speak for himself, that is why he uses the word "my" instead of "our".

    And it is quite generous of Gates to hand out something that normally costs  $47,215 for free, or the cost of a beer (not sure who's paying, but since Crowley offered I assume he is paying).

    but more to the point here is a bit of fleshing out the comment you nitpickingly bolded:

    "If my experience leads to the lessening of the occurrence of racial profiling, then I would find that enormously gratifying," Gates wrote.
    "Because, in the end, this is not about me at all; it is about the creation of a society in which 'equal justice before law' is a lived reality."

    NY Daily News

    Parent

    Gates during an interview with (none / 0) (#136)
    by vml68 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:11:15 PM EST
    Gayle king.

    HENRY LOUIS GATES, JR: ...I was having dinner with a friend on the upper east side in a little private Italian restaurant and all of a sudden I thought my blackberry was going to explode. And the first call...it was from Angela...Angela DeLeon...[saying] Barack Obama just mentioned you in his news conference...

    (bolding mine)

    Most people would have left out that bolded part, unless they were trying to show off don't you think?
    He should not have been arrested but the guy certainly comes across as very arrogant and elitist. I somehow doubt if he gives a sh!t if poor black men are racially profiled.
    I guess, I am having a hard time visualizing Gates as the new Rosa Parks!

    Parent

    You Are Gross (none / 0) (#138)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:17:19 PM EST
    And sound just like some of the commenters at Red State. Also you have no f*cking idea who Gates is, and that is embarrassingly obvious.

    Perhaps you should enroll in one of Gates' classes, oh right, Harvard is not your thing... lol.....

    Parent

    Yeh, I caught that, too (none / 0) (#140)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:51:02 PM EST
    and Gates may not have caught up with that phrase falling into disuse for reinforcing a paternalistic role, a power imbalance, etc., in the classroom.  The trendy thing now is to be student-based.  So we can hope that the three, when they meet in the White House, all have "learning moments."

    And then, after reports of how it goes, we can gather here again to continue our "outcome assessment."  But maybe Harvard sticks to the traditional term, and Gates can give the cop and the president . . . a grade. :-)

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#119)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:37:08 PM EST
    Just goes to show how powerful the presidents of the Patrolman's Unions are.

    They speak for all cops, despite what the police may or not say.

    Parent

    Were I Sgt. Crowley, I might decline the WH (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:02:14 PM EST
    invite, given Prof. Gates plans to use it as a teaching moment.  

    Parent
    I was wondering (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:20:35 PM EST
    whether Gates had anything to learn at this event, or only something to teach.

    Parent
    I really wish we could be privy to (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:21:48 PM EST
    this event. Could come to fisticuffs I'm afraid.

    Parent
    Best comment of the day (none / 0) (#150)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:59:38 PM EST
    IMHO :)

    Parent
    Silly (none / 0) (#151)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:57:24 PM EST
    Why would anyone who was one of the most esteemed profiling experts in the Cambridge Police, want to turn down learning something from one of top scholars in the country whose speciality is the history of race profiling in America.

    Together with Obama, the guy would have to be stupid to turn that meeting down.

    Parent

    To me, Prof. Gates seems to be (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:00:23 PM EST
    rather didactic.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#153)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:12:09 PM EST
    Have you met him, or known anyone who has been his student. I don't think he would have gotten as far as he is if he were not an excellent teacher.

    Parent
    No and no. BTW, I don't (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:33:02 PM EST
    see anything in the Wiki entry for Henry Louis Gates, Jr., nor in his link at Harvard indicating he is an expert in racial profiling.

    Parent
    Racial Profiling (none / 0) (#155)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 12:28:27 AM EST
    Gates and Crowley are working hard to end racial profiling. Crowley is working to end racial profiling on the street by the police, and Gates is working to end racial profiling in literature, and culture in general. Much of their work requires breaking down stereotypes and prejudice against black culture.

    Gates has combined literary techniques of deconstruction with native African literary traditions; he draws on structuralism, post-structuralism, and semiotics to textual analysis and matters of identity politics. As a black intellectual and public figure, Gates has been an outspoken critic of the Eurocentric literary canon and has instead insisted that black literature must be evaluated by the aesthetic criteria of its culture of origin, not criteria imported from Western or European cultural traditions that express a "tone deafness to the black cultural voice" and result in "intellectual racism."

    Moreover, Gates has argued that a separatist, Afrocentric education perpetuates racist stereotypes and maintains that it is "ridiculous" to think that only blacks should be scholars of African and African-American literature. He argues, "It can't be real as a subject if you have to look like the subject to be an expert in the subject,"[4] adding, "It's as ridiculous as if someone said I couldn't appreciate Shakespeare because I'm not Anglo-Saxon. I think it's vulgar and racist whether it comes out of a black mouth or a white mouth."[7]

    wiki

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#147)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:23:40 PM EST
    I read those takes as well and agree. My guess is Gates would also agree. He admits to as much... Unlike most people of color who have had a less successful than Gates, he never imagined that he would ever get arrested for the crime of being black, or poor.

    But none of that has nothing to do with your really offensive comment though, imo.