Obama, Gates and Cop to Share a Beer

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:38:24 PM EST
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President Obama telephoned both his pal Professor Henry Louis Gates and the cop who arrested him and all are going to share a beer at the White House and make nice.

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Obama, Gates and Cop to Share a Beer | 98 comments (98 topical)

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It's nice to see that the President isn't letting (5.00 / 5) (#1)
by tigercourse on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:47:06 PM EST

trivial things like Healthcare and the Economy get in the way of his real job, mediating between a schmuck and an ass.

Huh? (none / 0) (#2)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:53:46 PM EST

How is this getting in the way of health care and the economy?

Parent

Missing the point! (none / 0) (#3)
by Gobbluth on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:53:48 PM EST

The point is to move on from this media blown story to something of substance like the economy and healthcare. If you don't think that the media will drown out everything of substance with talk of this case, you weren't paying attention during the Clinton years.

Parent

Congress seems to be .. (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:57:35 PM EST

doing a good job of avoiding dealing with healthcare in their various healthcare bills.

Parent

Obama,Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by jondee on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:04:34 PM EST

and all the others are afraid of the media turning against them -- that's why they feel the need, or, are advised to, play to the cameras on occasion with symbolic acts and gestures.

Nothing new.

Parent

I actually think the media will forget about this (none / 0) (#9)
by tigercourse on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:59:41 PM EST

by about Monday or Tuesday, as long as nothing comes along to feed the fire.

Parent

: Then Obama needs to stop talking about it! (none / 0) (#85)
by BrassTacks on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 01:06:59 AM EST

I don't want to hear about their little beer fest, but I bet we will! I'm sick of the whole thing already.

Parent

I wonder which Beer company ... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:55:26 PM EST

was the first to get on the phone to the White House to be "the official beer" of this event.

;)

and will it be televised (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by Jen M on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:56:21 PM EST

with breathless media commentators?

Parent

: Is there any doubt? (none / 0) (#8)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:58:38 PM EST

Parent

"Molson, the official beer of damage (5.00 / 3) (#7)
by tigercourse on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:58:19 PM EST

control."

Parent

A Canadian Beer? (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:00:35 PM EST

I don't think so.

;)

Parent

It's too bad Corona is also out of the question (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by tigercourse on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:03:57 PM EST

because I can picture the perfect advertisement.

Parent

Must be a Sam Adams, of course (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by steviez314 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:39:09 PM EST

(besides, Boston Beer is one of the few domestic beer comapnies left)

Parent

Few? (5.00 / 3) (#18)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:11:15 PM EST

Goodness, no!
I'm figuratively swimming in domestic micro brews. I'd love to sample them all, but I'm usually so overwhelmed by the selection that I go with more familiar brews - Anchor, Great Lakes, Rogue are some of my favorites. Locally, Barley's is my favorite.

Parent

To this list I add (5.00 / 4) (#31)
by otherlisa on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:32:31 PM EST

anything coming from the Stone Brewery.

Hey, they could serve "Arrogant B@st@rd"! It's a wonderfully bitter brew...

Parent

Arrogant Bastard Beer (5.00 / 1) (#86)
by BrassTacks on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 01:08:25 AM EST

That would be hilarious!!!!

Parent

"Sublimely Self-Righteous Ale"? (5.00 / 2) (#89)
by Fabian on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 08:30:29 AM EST

Yes, there is such a beer.

Alas, only in limited production by Stone Brewery. [LINK] Definitely not for everyone - a double India Pale Ale can be nirvana for hop lovers, but will probably burn the taste buds of drinkers of American Lite beers.

Parent

It's delicious! (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by otherlisa on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 02:48:38 PM EST

Seriously. Kind of dark and definitely bitter. Everything Stone bottles is great, and for you San Diegans, their brewery/beer garden in Escondido is well-worth the trip.

Stone makes the only "light" beer I've ever found worth drinking - Levitation Ale.

Parent

The "lightest" beer I drink (5.00 / 1) (#97)
by Fabian on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 04:18:20 PM EST

is a pilsner, preferably Czech style. Generally, it's stouts, imperial stouts, IPAs, pale ales, porters, smoked porters.

Stone definitely fits my tastes. I do try to buy closer to home if I can, so Great Lakes often gets my money and Barley's always has something that appeals to me if I want to buy my beer by the half gallon.

Parent

: I was inspired! (none / 0) (#98)
by otherlisa on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 11:46:31 PM EST

I just bought a Self-Righteous Ale...

Parent

Read the label! (none / 0) (#87)
by Fabian on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 04:13:16 AM EST

[LINK]

I like looking over beer selections more because they give beer better names and they have great copy on the labels. Frequently they have better art too!

Parent

The label is funny... :-) (5.00 / 1) (#88)
by vml68 on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 08:06:52 AM EST

Oh to be a fly on the wall, if Sgt Crowley showed up with a six pack of this!

Parent

: Ahhh beer labels (5.00 / 2) (#90)
by CoralGables on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 09:14:56 AM EST

Olde Frothingslosh, the "pale, stale ale with foam on the bottom"

Parent

way off topic but, (none / 0) (#99)
by Bemused on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:08:19 AM EST

is this the same Barley's that has a brewpub in Columbus? If so, do they distribute their beers or just at the pub? I was there years ago when i went to a concert ant Nationwide. At that time it was just a brewpub, I'm pretty sure.

Parent

Nope, think Abe Lincoln (5.00 / 4) (#30)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:28:48 PM EST

since Obama has attempted to link to Lincoln over and over since the start of the campaign.

And Abe is on the label of Illinois' own Flatlander Beer.

Parent

: I see the wire copy now ... (5.00 / 3) (#34)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:36:36 PM EST

"the event featured of a selection of Massachusetts and Illinois beers. The President sampled several, but pronounced 'Abe Lincoln' his favorite. 'Abe Lincoln' is produced by the Illinois' Brewery, Flatlander Beer."

Parent

I recommend, for this occasion, (5.00 / 2) (#42)
by Peter G on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:10:57 PM EST

Yuengling "Black and Tan" from Pottsville, PA, America's oldest brewery. Actually my favorite beer. I'll bring a six-pack or two down from Philly to DC, if I can join this little tete-a-tete.

Parent

I love Yuengling (none / 0) (#43)
by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:35:14 PM EST

but apparently they have a union problem. So no go for now. . .

Parent

Maybe you like it ... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:10:10 PM EST

because you are a yuengling.

Yeah, I know, I'll get my coat.

;)

Parent

can you direct me (none / 0) (#74)
by Peter G on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:17:15 PM EST

to more info on that subject? A bit dismaying. (By the way, should we have a Philly TL meet-up some time? I'm sure Jeralyn would be willing to break the anonymity off-site for those who were willing and interested.)

Parent

See (none / 0) (#75)
by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:40:48 PM EST

here. I'm a Philly native, but I spend most of my time in NYC these days. A meet one of these days would be good, but we might have to drag you north!

Parent

This part of ... (none / 0) (#76)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:46:34 PM EST

that article sounds like a description in an L.L. Bean Catalog:

memories of my working class roots and the world of flannel hunting jackets, wedding receptions at union halls, 4th of July barbecues, and tailgate parties

Parent

: heh, J. Peterman! (5.00 / 1) (#77)
by andgarden on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:52:15 PM EST

Parent

thanks (none / 0) (#78)
by Peter G on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:59:25 PM EST

Parent

I predict (none / 0) (#94)
by Inspector Gadget on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 01:30:34 PM EST

more than half the microbrewers in the country will be shipping a 6-pack, or case, of their brew to the WH in hopes of being the brew chosen.

The result will be Obama's beer buddies will be set for every game they watch at the WH until the end of his term.

Parent

Dos Equis (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by vml68 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:54:05 PM EST

for the other "Most interesting man in the world".... :-)

Parent

I think there is a beverage (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by KeysDan on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:13:22 PM EST

change: its lemonade.

Parent

: I agree with that! n/t (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:15:10 PM EST

Parent
: After all... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:18:41 PM EST

life did give them all lemons.

Parent
: I'd with an eye ... (none / 0) (#24)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:20:55 PM EST

to 2012, I suggest the use of Florida lemons.

Parent

I may file a lawsuit on behalf of (5.00 / 3) (#33)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:35:54 PM EST

wine drinkers.

Parent

You could accuse Obama (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:38:25 PM EST

by his suggesting beer instead of wine of, y'know, acting stupidly.

Parent

Wrong (none / 0) (#39)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:46:52 PM EST

Crowley suggested that the three of them meet up for a beer, not Obama.

Parent

Well, diagram the sentence (5.00 / 4) (#40)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:54:36 PM EST

and that's not a solid statement. Did Crowley suggest the invitation to the White House AND that it be beer? Not clear. Inquiring minds want to know. Perhaps this can be discussed ad nauseam on the Sunday teevee talk shows.

I'll be listening to a radio book show. Makes my Sunday morning much nicer.

Parent

Diagram? (none / 0) (#53)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:16:34 PM EST

Diagram it yourself. or get your secretary to do it for you.

Sheesh

Parent

My secretary? (5.00 / 2) (#81)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:09:17 PM EST

You have unusual ideas about academe.

And I wouldn't let anybody take from me the pleasure of diagramming sentences -- a lost art and a useful one. Not enough writers today know how to do it, as I can tell from their sentence constructions.

Parent

: Secretary (none / 0) (#84)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:19:53 PM EST

I thought you could do with a translator, and figured that one of the secretaries in your Academe could provide you with accurate raw data from the newspaper article for your diagram.

Parent

Tell us about the radio book show. Is it (none / 0) (#54)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:19:36 PM EST

streaming live?

Parent

: I don't think so, but I'll check (5.00 / 1) (#79)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:06:54 PM EST

if I can find the website for WGN. It's a book show out of Chicago, 7 a.m. Sundays. Oldtime radio, just good talk about good ideas, delivered in an intimate voice -- the way radio used to be, one to one.

Parent

Toss some American wine ... (none / 0) (#36)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:39:43 PM EST

producers into that suit and you may have something.

The press release almost writes itself.

Parent

I vote for Stella Artois as this meet up (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:39:44 PM EST

would probably be the source material for a wryly amusng commercial.

Parent

Ale Asylum (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by Pianobuff on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:06:26 PM EST

Ale Asylum recommends "Happy Ending" beer.

Parent

But Seriously (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by hilts on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:46:56 PM EST

My Fenway Park suggestion was strictly meant as a joke. I supported Obama in the primaries, but his initial answer to the Gates arrest question at his press conference was about as dumb as humanly possible -

"I'd have been shot" - Obama pretends he's Letterman and makes a tasteless, stupid joke
"Skip Gates is a friend of mine" - Obama acknowledges he has a personal bias
"I don't have all the facts" - Obama admits he's offering an opinion without being fully informed on the topic
"Police acted stupidly" - Obama rushes to judgement and makes a derogatory remark about police conduct
Result - Obama's clueless, bumbling answer adds several more news cycles to the life of this story and puts major issues like healthcare reform on the backburner.

I agree with Time Magazine's Joe Klein. This should have been Obama's original answer:
"Skip Gates is a friend of mine. He's not a very disorderly sort and I'm glad the charges have been dropped."

Agree with Joe Klein? (none / 0) (#20)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:13:41 PM EST

I am forced to say that I do. The best place to be when story like that breaks is at a safe distance - especially for a politician.

Parent

: Obama has an unfortunate history (none / 0) (#32)
by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:35:03 PM EST

of standing up for people he knows before throwing them under the bus. Remember Rev. Wright? Who which Obama probably listened to one too many of his racist rants at the pulpit. Hence Obama's ill advised comments that started this entire mess for Obama which lead to his apology. But damage done. Obama showed himself to be a shoot from the hip Black President making unfounded accusations instead of just The President who puts distance between himself and words that may damage his credibility.

Parent

Country of laws? (5.00 / 3) (#27)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:02:45 PM EST

Feel free to press Obama and Congress about that concept.

Common Sense Says (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:43:31 PM EST

if you get in the face of a cop long enough and call him names, are disrespectful of their job, and are totally belligerent, then you are going to get hooked up and taken to jail. That's SOP and no cop has ever gotten in trouble for that.

And if I'm a cop and someone was doing all that and was acting out of control I'm slapping the hardware on them before the idiot does something stupid like attack me or grabs a gun. Take him in until he settles down and then cut him loose. By doing that you are protecting yourself and him from the unknowable.

You do see the problem with this, don' t you? (5.00 / 2) (#47)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:52:50 PM EST

The standard you advocate gives the cops unlimited discretion of arresting anyone they believe is being disrepectful. Such a standard also assumes there are no bad cops--they are all like Dirty Harry and always stick it to the bad guy in just the right way.

And, there are generally only two witnesses: the cop and the troublemaker. Who are most people going to believe?

As to dash cams, and "personal audio devices"--the cop's own personal recording devise--they may not have been working when the incident occurred. Funny how that works.

Society gives cops the ability to take away people's liberty and lives based on their discretion. At the very least, we can demand that given such power, they be the bigger person and refrain from making "attitude arrests."

But, all this is probably wasted breath. Wait until it happens to someone you know and you get a panicked call. As a nation, we arrest a gawdawful lot of people each year. And cops are becoming more and more like an occupying army. There is no real accountability for misuse of power--because the public gives them carte blanche.

Parent

Attitude? (2.00 / 1) (#48)
by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 07:28:36 PM EST

The attitude was with Gates. Had he acted with discretion instead of going all Black on a White police officer none of this would have happened. Obama admitted Gates went overboard. Again, Obama admitted Gates went overboard. had Gates not gone overboard then things would have went smoothly and everyone would be on their way. You cann't blame a cop for another persons overreaction. Hell Gates should have been thankful that the police responded to his home when the neighbor reported a possible burglary in progress. Instead he seen White and immediately launched into victim mode. You are the one who doesn't get it.

On top of going ballistic on the cop Gate was threatening a law suit and then according todays news he was going to make a documentary of his arrest. In other words he couldn't let it go. He was going to play the victim all the way through and try to actually profit from the incident that his mouth started.

Now all of a sudden seemingly out of nowhere he is saying no lawsuit, no documentary. Surprise surprise. I got a grand that says Obama said ENOUGH - DON'T HURT ME FURTHER.

Yeah Gates was going to sue and then planed to profit from a documentary. In other words he was going to go Rev. Wright on Obama and keep running his mouth which started when the police showed up to protect his home.

Your blinders are so big you can't see what happened here.

If you look closely this guy is a professor in African American Studies. His sideline is all about racial profiling. So what does he do when the cops show up to protect his home at the request of a neighbor? yeah he takes advantage of it and yell Racism and then immediately plans to sue and do a documentary. Black profiteering is what it very much smells like from his immediate actions. This clearly was taking advantage of a situation that fed his agenda perfectly. It's not like Blacks all over the country don't yell racism at the first opportunity even when they know they are guilty. It's sick.

Last post from me to you because you just don't get it.

Parent

I know we will never agree on Gates (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 07:34:05 PM EST

I was hoping to broaden the conversation out some to the general standard. That obviously did not work.

But this comment did catch my eye:

It's not like Blacks all over the country don't yell racism at the first opportunity even when they know they are guilty. It's sick.

I'll just let that comment hang out there by itself. No need for any comment by me.

Parent

Yeah (none / 0) (#50)
by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 07:48:27 PM EST

Ignore the obvious. Ignore Gates', whose fabric is to spread victim hood, obvious attempt at profiting from the incident. And not only profiting from it but creating the incident by running his mouth when he should have been appreciative that the cops were protecting a Black mans home! Yeah ignore that. Because you have been ignoring every other post that responds to you and makes you look silly.

And yeah, there has never been a guilty Black person anywhere in the country who cries racism as a device to try to deflect what they did wrong. Never. Or never a innocent one either looking to profit from a lawsuit and a quick buck. Sure thing, that never happens. Heh.

Is there racial profiling in this country and others? Sure. Was Gates being profiled when a neighbor requested the cops investigate two men trying to force a door open and then one going around the back? Don't be silly.

Parent

I have made my points extensively (5.00 / 2) (#52)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:15:46 PM EST

on the other thread. But to summarize: It doesn't matter if Gates said things (and you are accepting Crowley's version here) that were rude or out of line. That is not a basis for arresting him. Heck, even an ex prosecutor here agrees that is the law.

You have now gone on a rant on race that I do not agree with. What is there really to say about this that could be constructive at this point? I do not share your racial resentment. It is futile to try and refute it.

Parent

You keep sticking to the part about (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by Anne on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:44:29 PM EST

what Gates said not being a reason to arrest him, but what you consistently avoid discussing is whether Gates did - or didn't - DO something that resulted in his arrest.

And missing altogether from your arguments is the essential truth that we are all responsible for our words and our actions, but have no control over the consequences that follow.

Everyone made choices along the way, as this incident unfolded, and it simply is not acceptable that the only person who has to be held accountable for his choices is the cop - to whom all kinds of motives and agendas and intent are being assigned out of what is essentially thin air and the experiences that people have had that have nothing to do with this particular cop or with this particular citizen.

Parent

If Prof. Gates made any movements (5.00 / 2) (#58)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:51:52 PM EST

Sgt. Crowley considered a threat to himself or others, I would expect the Sgt. to have included a detailed description of those movements in his report. Did he?

Parent

I have no idea, and I'm really not (5.00 / 2) (#60)
by Anne on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:06:00 PM EST

any kind of expert on what cops do and don't write in their reports.

Am I correct that it's fair to recognize that it's one thing to "say" things to a cop - or scream them or shout them - but something else to, for example, refuse to comply with something the cop is asking you to do - whatever it might be - especially if, for example, continued refusals are escalating the situation?

And I ask that not knowing the minute-by-minute details of what transpired, the tone and volume of the voices of all involved, the body language and so on.

I suppose where I am going with this is that regardless of what was said, what was done, who said what to whom - every person on the scene has to take responsibility for his role - words, actions, whatever - and to continue to treat the incident as if Crowley is the only one who bears any responsibility is just ridiculous.

Parent

Assuming Sgt. Crowley's only reason for (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:10:03 PM EST

contacting the person who turned out to be Prof. Gates was because Crowley had a report of a possible trespass and/or burglary, once Sgt. Crowley was satisfied no crime was being committed, he had no reason to order Prof. Gates to do anything, assuming nothing Gates did caused Crowley to have reasonable fear for his own, Gates, and or others' safety. I think of Sgt. Crowley, in this situation, as the teacher or parent who agrees to let kids throw stuff at him to try and dunk him in a tank of water. Only here the "something" is words.

Parent

I wish more prosecutors were as (5.00 / 1) (#63)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:18:47 PM EST

reasonable as you.

It is so important to be able to trust law enforcement as honest and unbiased.

Parent

Was it okay for Crowley to ask, and (none / 0) (#64)
by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:20:10 PM EST

expect an answer to the question, the caller said two men were seen breaking in, where is the second man? Would that question indicate a concern for Gates' safety, or would that be considered none of his business?

I DO NOT think Gates should have been arrested. I absolutely believe all the police officerS on the scene should have used their training to diffuse the situation and calm Gates down.

Parent

: To me, that would be a reasonable question (none / 0) (#66)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:32:09 PM EST

for Sgt. Crowley to ask Prof. Gates. Although Gates didn't have to answer it.

Parent

And this should be noted: (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:24:02 PM EST

You state:

And not only profiting from it but creating the incident by running his mouth when he should have been appreciative that the cops were protecting a Black mans home!

I will say it is painful to read this--but good I guess it came out.

Parent

Hate to say it, but I think you may be (none / 0) (#59)
by oculus on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:52:38 PM EST

wasting your efforts on this particular commenter.

Parent

Clearly ... (5.00 / 2) (#61)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:09:24 PM EST

I think the thing that disturbs me most about some comments on this event is a seeming unwillingness to see the difference between the actions of a private citizen, and the actions of an agent of the state.

A huge portion of our Constitution is devoted to these differences. It creates many protections for the individual against an over-reaching state.

But reading some of these comments, it seems some would be happy to have agents of the state incarcerate people for speaking rudely.

Parent

Then, you aren't reading with an open mind (5.00 / 1) (#65)
by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:23:21 PM EST

I have seen NO COMMENT on any of these threads state that the arrest was acceptable.

But, to counter your point, I am seeing a lot of commenters who believe quite adamently that police can be treated disrespectfully just because they are police, who are nothing more than power-trippers.

Parent

Sounds like you ... (none / 0) (#67)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:43:58 PM EST

could use a snack.

Popcorn is a quite nice late-night snack. Every try it with soy sauce instead of salt? Quite tasty.

Parent

Soy Sauce? (none / 0) (#69)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:58:56 PM EST

Really?

Parent

: Yup ... (none / 0) (#71)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:06:33 PM EST

I was introduced to that option by a friend back in college.
It's surprisingly tasty.
Try it some time.

Parent

People can be jerks for any number (none / 0) (#73)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:11:16 PM EST

of reasons. And I do not know if Gates really was a jerk, but assuming he was, I still think the more relevant question is about the police conduct. They were the ones with the guns and badges.

If you do want to focus on Gates, and assuming he did act like a jerk, I tend to give him a bye because he was in his own house looking at an armed visitor questioning his ability to be there....and because I really believe that had he been white, he would not have been in that position--not perhaps out of overt racial animus but because of subconscious stereotyping.

I suppose I should state, perhaps as a non sequitur, that although I am biased against cops in general, I have to admit I do have a better opinion of the members of LAPD I have come across--but that was in a civil context. My bad experiences have been with the Sheriffs Department.

Parent

A few weeks ago I was at the post office, (5.00 / 3) (#70)
by vml68 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:04:39 PM EST

a young guy in front of me and I were the only customers. I don't know what he needed, I just heard the lady at the counter ask him for ID. After he handed it to her, she handed it back telling him it was expired and she needed valid ID. This guy went nuts and started screaming at her and calling her some really vile names. She stayed calm but after a few minutes, I could see she was getting really upset. I know I was furious and his vitriol wasn't even directed at me.
The lady then went and got her supervisor and he repeated the same thing about needing a valid ID. This guy then went off on the supervisor. It was only when they threatened to call the cops that this guy left.

But reading some of these comments, it seems some would be happy to have agents of the state incarcerate people for speaking rudely

Honestly, if the cops had come and arrested him, I would not have cared. This guy seemed unhinged and it was quite frightening and I am not a person who scares easily.

When the lady was helping me, I told her I was sorry she had gone through that and she said that even though the guy's licensce had expired five years ago she still would have helped him if he had been polite.

Parent

If you read the news (none / 0) (#82)
by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:16:02 PM EST

you would have read that there were 6 or 7 people standing outside his home who according to police were quite alarmed by Gates' behavior. When your behavior is causing your fellow citizens to be alarmed then it is time to take a ride done to the station to cool off.

Parent

Just what is wrong with the quote? (none / 0) (#80)
by ChiTownMike on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:08:22 PM EST

Gates was running his mouth. Obama admitted that but you won't.

As for the "protecting a Black mans home!" part which I'm sure is the part you take issue with consider this:

According to Gates he was being profiled, which is ridiculous because a neighbor requested the police. That is not profiling, that is responding to a call.

Gates felt he was receiving disrespect because he was Black. Did he consider it disrespectful that the police were protecting his home? Him being a Black man. Of course you can't see the absurdity and double standard Gates is applying. In essence he is saying you came here to protect my home but 'so what', I think your picking on me because I am Black. You see Gates didn't seem to apply any appreciation for the cops protecting his home.

In fact all that I have read that he has said not once did he express any appreciation for the police coming to his home to check on it. Not once. WTF is up with that?

Nope it was all about you don't like me I'm Black even if you could be risking your life going to a suspected burglary at my home. It's absurd. Disrespectful on his part. Arrogant. Not that a Harvard professor with a second home on Martha's Vineyard could be arrogant. heh.

You also ignore Gates' lifelong agenda and that is his Blackness. That's not my take, that is his. He even has a blog to promote Blackness. Of course when a man's very fabric is his race then it is ridiculous to even think that he would take every advantage to further his agenda!!! Which obviously with the law suit and the documentary he was very willing and vocal that he would.

And oh yeah - you still ignore the profit motive Gates has expressed in interview with the law suits and the documentary. But that is what you have been doing all day long. Ignoring anyones argument (not just mine) that you have no answer for. Therefore you have no argument if you can't respond to other posters comments. None.

You not only don't respond to other peoples posts, you don't display much common sense either.

Parent

: Wow, Mike (none / 0) (#83)
by ap in avl on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:19:52 PM EST

hope you don't have a badge and carry a gun.

Parent

I'm sorry (5.00 / 1) (#95)
by Socraticsilence on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 01:58:52 PM EST

you're hood is showing:

"Going all Black"

"It's not like Blacks all over the country don't yell racism at the first opportunity even when they know they are guilty. It's sick"

Man you just want to put those uppity Blacks in there place huh?

Parent

Obama's Intellect Vastly Overrated (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by hilts on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:41:31 PM EST

If Obama had 1/10th the intellectual horspower that the MSM ascribed to him, he'd never have given such a breathtakingly dumb answer to a question at a press conference.

Bush and Cheney were horrible, but Obama is not inspiring much confidence in me right now. He put almost everyone to sleep with long drawn out non-responsive answers to questions on healthcare. He needed to show passion and demonstrate an ability to give crisp, succinct, informative answers to healthcare questions. Instead, he saves his passion for a local arrest story that he had absolutely no business commenting upon.

Obama is a centrist, Wall St democrat who cares little about civil liberties or the plight of the working class.

Bill Maher is right on the money in his analysis of the 2 major political parties. The Democratic Party is the party of big business and the Republican Party is the party of the mentally deranged.

while it's great to hold a politicians feet (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by The Last Whimzy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 08:12:14 PM EST

to the fire maher's overall assessment is so bleak it inspires non-participation or worse, voting for nader.

i believe we got bush -- and not gore -- because of this kind of rhetoric.

Parent

: Fear - Orwell style (5.00 / 1) (#91)
by lentinel on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 11:18:23 AM EST

The reason that we wind up with people like Obama is that people like us, who want the things that Nader articulates, don't vote for him.

Parent

Whether or (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by lentinel on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 11:20:46 AM EST

not Obama has a great intellect is moot if he won't or can't use it.

By the time people finish compromising whatever their core beliefs might have once been, they wind up stupid.

Parent

Obama, Gates and Cop to Share a Joint (5.00 / 3) (#93)
by lentinel on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 11:22:50 AM EST

Now we're getting someplace.

Fenway Park (none / 0) (#13)
by hilts on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:19:05 PM EST

Instead of a White House photo-op, Obama should go to Boston and take Gates and Crowley to a Red Sox game at Fenway Park. The Red Sox need to jumpstart their season and maybe a photo-op with Obama, Gates, and Crowley would do the trick.

: Would the free ... (none / 0) (#14)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 03:22:52 PM EST

giveaway be that day?
Toy handcuffs?
;)

Parent

Germany (none / 0) (#25)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:21:25 PM EST

Good thing that we are not like the germans because another fight would start. In Germany the beer you drink is tied up with your identity as much as the regional football team you root for. IOW you could easily profile someone by the jersey or colors they are wearing and/or the beer they are drinking.

For instance, if someone orders a kolsch in Düsseldorf, they will get thrown out of the bar, and be shunned. Same goes for Köln, order an Alt there and you better start running...

There used to be a thing (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by jondee on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 04:31:31 PM EST

in Ireland about drinking either Bushmills or Jamesons. One was supposed to Green and one Orange. Or, so I heard.

Of course, ppj & co would probobly have prefered that Obama and Gates had opted for Night Train and Gin 'n Juice.

Parent

: Naw... (none / 0) (#46)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:47:27 PM EST

Ice tea, no sugar....for me.
How about Carling Black Label for O and G?

Parent

Why Gates issue (none / 0) (#28)
by hobodreamer on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:17:14 PM EST

Why is it the President balks on an investigation into abuse of power under the Bush administration that involves the vice president, Cheney; it involves the former attorney general, Gonzalez, and others. But he has no problem involving himself in the Gates issue that certainly has distracted him more than the above issue ever would since it would be in Attorney General Eric Holder's hands?

This critique would make ... (5.00 / 5) (#29)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 05:27:37 PM EST

more sense if the President was calling for an investigation into the Gates arrest. He isn't. He seems to be suggesting everyone move forward, and not analyze the past.

That seems quite in keeping with his view of wrong-doing in the Bush administration.

Parent

: Well said, Robot (5.00 / 1) (#68)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:48:11 PM EST

Parent

The remedy already exists (none / 0) (#44)
by MKS on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 06:40:48 PM EST

You can sue the cops and their employers for false arrest and violation of civil rights under section 1983 of the Civil Rights Act. And, you don't have to have a racial component to sue for a 1983 violation--being deprived of liberty or your civil rights can and does occur outside a racial context.

A 1983 lawsuit also allows a prevaling plaintiff to recover attorneys fees--but if the defendants (cops) prevail, they don't get fees (as held by the Supreme Court long ago) unless they can prove bad faith--which never happens. But cops are financed by the very mighty and politically powerful police unions, and the cities pick up the tabs too...

The problem is that most people don't care.....You mouthed off--you deserve what you get--we even have a comment like that in this thread.

I agree with your sentiments about abusive cops. The remedy is to create a greater awareness in the public of police abuse. That would make winning 1983 lawsuits easier. I have learned that cops fear (and hate) lawyers. The fear of litigation may be one's best protection against bad cops.

Which Beer at the White House? (none / 0) (#100)
by Gerbeel Haamster on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 10:08:13 AM EST

Which Beer at the White House?

... why, LOST NATION PALE ALE, of course.

The Beer for people who have Lost Their Nation, NOT Their Taste.

LOST NATION PALE ALE from Willoughby Brewing Company, 4057 Erie Street Willoughby Ohio.

http://www.willoughbybrewing.com/beer.htm

So... Here's a little parable about ethnic stereotyping.

Maybe if we were to consider the whole "beer at the White House" (Breaking and entering) thing from Sgt. Crowley's (Prof.Gates) point of view?

You never know, he might feel a little put upon, having someone of another ethnic background automatically assuming he liked to drink (break and enter) because he was Irish (Black)? Maybe even if he is standing in a bar (On his porch) when he gets the invite?

I mean, especially if he knows in the depths of his very soul and through the personal experience of generations of his ethnic group that there is a history of societal-wide biased belief that the majority of Irishmen (Blacks) abuse alcohol (Break and enter)?

What if the invite was really only an innocent one - the kind of invite that someone might extend to a working acquaintance (Perp) or customer (Taxpayer) while in the course of their job?

But what if then, as Sgt. Crowley (Prof. Gates) has been conditioned to look at such pleasantries as an insult to his heritage and his intelligence, he takes offense at the invitation to "have a beer" (Take a ride downtown)?

Are we to then blame Sgt. Crowley (Prof. Gates)?

Of course not - blame the inviter, not the invitee.

Even if he is just doing his job.

Obama, Gates and Cop to Share a Beer | 98 comments (98 topical)

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