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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:17:51 PM EST
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Bob Somerby wrote for rubes on Saturday about the Sotomayor hearings. Somerby wrote:

On Thursday morning, [Sen. Kyl] asked Sotomayor, again and again, to identify the precedents which compelled her decision in the Ricci case, or which would have compelled the full Second Circuit if it had addressed the matter. We’re not legal eagles here, and we’re willing to be corrected or further informed. . . . For ourselves, we don’t have a strong view on the Ricci case; we’d love to see better analysis. . . . Bottom line: Pseudo-liberals simply love to name-call southern whites. . . .

(Emphasis supplied.) Bob is writing for his rubes here. Funny how he could not find any "pseudo-liberal" analysis of Ricci. His research on the point was as good as the Media's on "Al Gore invented the Internet." Hey Bob! Here is just one analysis that could have answered your questions on Ricci. More on Somerby playing to his rubes tomorrow. This (PDF) might help Bob also.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 53 comments (53 topical)

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    Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. arrested (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 06:02:58 PM EST
    [for breaking into his own home]. Cambridge, MA police arrested Dr. Gates, a noted Harvard professor who happens to be African-American, at around noon last Thursday on suspicion of B & E.

    According to the Boston Globe, the door of Gates' house jammed as he was unlocking it, and he struggled to get it open. He got it open and was inside when Cambridge police arrived. Gates showed them his drivers license, which listed his address as his address,  and Harvard ID. They slapped on the cuffs and took him downtown anyway.

    Racial profiling, anyone?

    You have it wrong (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:13:13 PM EST
    on a pretty crucial detail.  They arrested him for creating a disturbance, not for B&E, for heaven's sake.

    Apparently what happened is that he and a friend, not dressed in professor-type clothes and carrying backpacks, were observed by an incredibly dense neighbor lady (white, of course) trying to push in the front door of the building, which was apparently stuck.  The neighbor lady called the cops.

    Gates and his friend were inside the house when cops arrived to find out what was going on.  After this point, it's "He said, he said," with Gates's version of the story not yet heard in any detail.

    At any rate, Gates produced ID, according to the cops, showing he lived there, and they say they didn't question that.  But Gates was loudly indignant about the whole thing, both inside the house and back out on the street, where a crowd had apparently gathered by this time.  Cops called Harvard police to come help out, but ended up arresting Gates for creating a disturbance.

    Here's the "incident report" from the Cambridge police.

    I wouldn't put it past the cops to have been rude and imperious.  I wouldn't put it past Gates to become indignant even if the cops had been entirely polite.

    Parent

    PR disaster for Cambridge police (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:15:45 PM EST
    Anyone with a little sense would have known that the thing to do was apologize and walk away from it.

    I suspect that will happen tomorrow.

    Parent

    Anyone could become indignant (none / 0) (#35)
    by Cream City on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:39:04 PM EST
    at certain police treatment.  But I have seen Gates in person, and being challenged (if intellectually), and he was incredibly courteous.


    Parent
    Intellectual challenge (none / 0) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:38:45 PM EST
    is one thing, this is a whole different thing.  I can absolutely imagine him flipping out and making a big scene.  He was totally entitled to be PO'd, but unless the cops behaved really, really badly, the person he should have flipped out at was the neighbor lady, not the cops, whose job it is to come see what's going on when they get a call reporting a possible house break.

    There's no way to know who had the attitude problem here.  Most likely both of them did.  But FWIW, the Cambridge cops in the Harvard Square area know very well they need to treat Harvard profs with kid gloves because most of them have attitude about this kind of thing.

    The Cambridge cop called the Harvard campus police to come help with the situation, which does suggest that the cop was trying and failing to calm Gates down.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#43)
    by Cream City on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 10:13:03 PM EST
    you may not have seen how snide, and sometimes subtly racist, academic conflicts can be. . . .

    But again, I want to know more about what the police did -- about why he was upset with the municipal police but then not with the campus police.  (And on a campus as huge as Harvard, no, he probably would not have known the campus cops.  And on any campus, the campus cops can be just as obstreperous as any other cops, believe me.  So why were some cops having no communication breakdown?)

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#48)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 01:22:36 AM EST
    And you're certainly right that he may well not have known the specific cop, but Harvard really does have an unusually warm relationship with its campus police, who see it as their duty to protect Harvard people, faculty, staff and students, and who are widely felt to feel and behave that way.

    I know that's not always the case with campus police, but it is true there.  They really are felt to be part of the family, and Gates, like all faculty, would be likely to trust them and feel he'd be treated right by them.

    Parent

    That's good to know (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 10:16:49 AM EST
    that Harvard students get what they pay for from their campus cops.

    My campus cops, at a public university, include both state patrol and parttime non-professionals . . . not that all of the state patrol are always professional in their work.  But many are, and I've come to know and appreciate those -- as at state universities, some of us had to deal with the V-Tech sort of student for decades.  (It ain't no fun being stalked by a student who is a convicted felon, nor then dealing with unprofessional cops, DAs, etc.  So when the next campus cop is professional and does the job well, you can bet I remember her or his name.)

    Parent

    You keep saying that (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 10:15:01 PM EST
    Why could he not just leave.

    Why call anyone else? Why ask Gates to come outside?

    Why not just walk out and leave the premises?

    Parent

    Excellent questions (none / 0) (#47)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 01:12:27 AM EST
    I'd like to hear the answers to them.  But although I have every reason to from personal experience, I do not automatically assume the cop in any situation is at fault.  Sometimes they aren't.  I would not want to be put on the spot in the situation this cop found himself in.

    Parent
    Apparently, not a completely isolated incident (none / 0) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 10:38:22 PM EST
    The Boston Globe story relates another incident involving police, this time Harvard, and a Harvard professor--

    The arrest of such a prominent scholar under what some described as dubious circumstances shook some members of the black Harvard community.

    "He and I both raised the question of if he had been a white professor, whether this kind of thing would have happened to him, that they arrested him without any corroborating evidence," said S. Allen Counter, a Harvard Medical School professor who spoke with Gates about the incident Friday. "I am deeply concerned about the way he was treated, and called him to express my deepest sadness and sympathy."

    Counter, who had called Gates from the Nobel Institute in Sweden, where Counter is on sabbatical, said that Gates was "shaken" and "horrified" by his arrest.

    Counter has faced a similar situation himself. The well-known neuroscience professor, who is also black, was stopped by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect as he crossed Harvard Yard. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.

    Yes, the Counter incident happened in 2004, but it seems there is some tension at Harvard and in Cambridge concerning the treatment of blacks.

    And, I am not sure one should take the police incident report as the absolute truth on this matter. It seems unlikely to me that the police would admit they blew it with this one.

    Parent

    It's worth noting (none / 0) (#46)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 10:47:15 PM EST
    that they arrested him for disorderly conduct, so a lack of corroborating evidence isn't really the most salient objection.

    Even if the police report is accurate, though, it's clear the cops handled this just miserably.

    Parent

    Going Home While Black (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:28:37 PM EST
    The cops were idiots and Gates maybe coulda been cammer but the real hero of the story is Lucia Whelan, the neighbor who called the cops and even followed up when they arrived. The neighborhood was well protected from Harvard Profs today.

    Do we think her life will become a living hell?

    Parent

    One can only hope (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:31:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Why? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:41:01 PM EST
    the simple explanation for her calling the police was she thought two men were breaking into her black neighbor's home.

    Parent
    I hope the neighbors... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 08:29:48 AM EST
    teach her about minding your own business and that dropping dimes is bad form...at the least.  If I lived next door to a dime-dropper like that I'd have to move...my friends know the windows are unlocked if they ever have to get in my crib, and my neighbors are kind and considerate enough to mind their own.

    The old disorderly charge...figures.  It is the pretext for all the 'I don't like your attitude' or 'How dare you defend your rights' arrests.  The only disorderly conduct here was on the part of the officers and the dime-dropper.  Everything was orderly until they monkeyed everything up.

    Parent

    I'm glad to have "eyes on the street" (none / 0) (#51)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 10:23:25 AM EST
    as it's called, with neighbors watching out for neighbors . . . which is different from neighbors watching out for criminals and thinking that a neighbor is one.

    We've worked hard in my neighborhood (also near a campus so subjected to crime waves, as such areas are easy targets) to have people call the cops if they see something worrisome -- but only after having a lot of neighborhood contact, so we know each other, as well as a lot of meetings with cops so they know us, too.  And so they know that we will not tolerate intolerance masked as doing their job.  And so the occasional neighbor who reveals subtle racism is aware that it won't be tolerated.

    I suspect that Gates' neighborhood has some work to do.  It's hard work, but it does work, so that we get the cops doing their jobs as they're supposed to do.  It means that we have to do our jobs as neighbors first.

    Parent

    For sure... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 11:08:17 AM EST
    I'll keep an eye on my neighbors place, if asked, like when they go out of town or something.  

    But, as you alluded to I think, running to dial 911 at the drop of a hat (or the sight of a black man) is not neighborly...it is a neighborhood nuisance.  

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 11:15:03 AM EST
    I think Gates was stoking the racial fires first....

    According to the report, officers responded to a call Thursday from a woman who said she saw "a man wedging his shoulder into the front door" at Gates' house near the university. The report, obtained by CNN affiliate WCVB-TV, indicates Gates refused to identify himself to a police officer, claiming the officer was a racist.

    Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department stated in the report that he told Gates he was investigating a report of a break-in at the residence. According to the report, Gates "opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "

    Crowley wrote in the report that he warned Gates two times he was becoming disorderly. After Gates continued to yell and accuse him of racial bias, Crowley wrote he arrested Gates for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space."



    Parent
    I won't judge him on that... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 11:19:35 AM EST
    I have a hard enough time with the police being white and getting my share of white boy breaks that black people don't get...any chip on his shoulder may well be quite justified.

    Cop comes to my house investigating anything I'm not gonna be thrilled, though knowing me I'd play the game however the cop wanted it played just to get rid of them...but that makes me a piker, I wish I had the balls and the patience to deal with the ensuing hassle to tell 'em how I really feel like Gates did:)

    Parent

    Here is the link (none / 0) (#10)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 06:04:03 PM EST
    to the Boston Globe story.

    Parent
    Unbelievable (none / 0) (#15)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:37:04 PM EST
    Thanks for posting this. It is a stunning story. We aren't quite to that color-blind society yet, are we?

    Parent
    Idiotic, needless (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 06:11:27 PM EST
    vindictive arrest at the taxpayers expense, anyone?

    Parent
    Hmm (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:33:00 PM EST
    One wonders if BTD's perspective is altered by the fact that he does, indeed, like to name-call southern whites!

    he struck a nerve? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Idearc on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:38:41 PM EST
    Are you saying Somerby's post touched a nerve?

    Heh!

    Parent

    Whaaa? Is that a chicken or egg (none / 0) (#17)
    by oldpro on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:40:12 PM EST
    question?

    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:58:39 PM EST
    there is an extent to which "pseudo-liberals" (not you) like to name-call and yell racism to the detriment of all other analysis.

    Racism and appeals to white resentment have been a core component of the Republican message for several decades, 'tis true, but sometimes we treat it as if that was their ONLY message.  As if Reagan did nothing more than leverage the race issue, and then bang, 49 state landslide, he had absolutely nothing else going for him.

    And sometimes we just recite the message about the relationship between racism and the Republican agenda as if we don't need to say any more, because that fact automatically gives us moral superiority and we win, the end.  I understand why Bob starts to worry that maybe WE are becoming the people with the one-track message.

    So bob checked his brain (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:11:14 PM EST
    at the door on this one?

    Cuz his "analysis" is pathetically ignorant and contrary to the facts.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:19:13 PM EST
    Bob certainly mails it in himself from time to time.  Which arguably suggests he should be a little more forgiving of the folks he lambastes for mailing it in, but it doesn't make him wrong about them!

    But hey, it's hard filling all that column space on a daily basis.  Generally speaking you'll find more truth on his site than you'll find in 95% of the liberal blogosphere.

    Parent

    Bob chose to spout off on (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:22:59 PM EST
    things he knows nothing about and did not bother to educate himself on the subject.

    Considering it was about racism by the GOP, which to me was evident in the hearings, he should have trod more carefully.

    I plan an 18 part series on the subject . . .

    Parent

    It will be "incomparable" I presume (none / 0) (#31)
    by andgarden on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:27:46 PM EST


    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:30:47 PM EST


    Parent
    I can only hope (none / 0) (#36)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:55:30 PM EST
    that it rivals Kagro X's famous series on the nuclear option for both accuracy and prolixity.

    Parent
    Frank McCourt has died. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by oldpro on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:06:25 PM EST
    Many an Irish writer has left me gasping with new knowledge of my heritage and a new understanding of my family but none brought it home for me like Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes.

    In the same league as East of Eden and Hiroshima, which I must read again on August 6.

    Angela's Ashes (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:17:32 PM EST
    What an extraordinary book. I think I spent a good year reading and rereading it - nothing else could compare.

    I think now's a good time to read it again.

    Parent

    Oh, and ... (none / 0) (#39)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:22:15 PM EST
    I once forced a class of mine to read Hiroshima. I remember curling up with it when I was a child, no less, awestruck as much by the writing as the imagery.

    Parent
    Well, OK...but I'll bet (none / 0) (#1)
    by oldpro on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:34:10 PM EST
    you liked his column today on Krugman, Broder and Rich.  A bit wordy and somewhat repetitious, of course, but that's the incomparable Bob...the opposite of Digby!

    As one of the rubes, I come to TL, among other places (I always look for Greenwald's POV) to be schooled on the legal stuff because the writing is clear and straightforward enough for the lay person.  I visit Bob for lots of other reasons...all good, of course.  And he's very funny.

    I love Bob (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:36:25 PM EST
    Hated that piece.

    Consider my style a tribute, such as it is.

    Parent

    Getting Nasty (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:37:26 PM EST
    The 2010 Democratic primary fight between Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand and Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney is already starting to get nasty.

    She has no shot (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:40:24 PM EST
    Gillibrand will crush her. The money difference is too huge.

    Maloney will drop out before the year is out and stay in the Congress.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:42:56 PM EST
    It looks that way:

    Gillibrand, who has a reputation for near-relentless fundraising, raked in more than $1.5 million during the three-month period ending June 30 and has $3.2 million on hand.
    The Maloney for Congress Committee will report Wednesday that it raised $576,690 during the second quarter of the year. The committee has $1.7 million cash in the bank.

    NY Daily News

    Parent

    that's just the beginning (none / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:46:37 PM EST
    It'll be 3-1 before the fund raising is done.

    Parent
    With Paterson's approval (none / 0) (#12)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 06:28:28 PM EST
    in the basement, the Dem senatorial candidate will be without coattails, and must have appeal upstate.  That person is not Maloney.

    Parent
    I thought that at that point in... (none / 0) (#6)
    by EL seattle on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:43:13 PM EST
    ... Somerby's piece he was referring to Ed Hall's cartoon.

    "You stupid cracker," Sotomayor is secretly thinking, in this morning's cartoon.

    Or is the cartoon in question based on an actual Sotomayor quote?

    Who the hell is Ed Hall (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:45:49 PM EST
    and what does that have to do with Ricci and whether Bob could find "Pseudo liberal" analysis of it?

    If he was hoping to see it in a political cartoon, well, then Bob is not as smart as we think he is.

    Parent

    How did the blogger call go? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Idearc on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:41:09 PM EST
    O.T.

    How did the blogger conference call with President Obama go?

    What question did you ask?

    Back are you? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 07:42:34 PM EST
    To what do we owe this honor?

    And how soon can we expect you to leave? Remember the comment limit.

    Parent

    Unbelievable (none / 0) (#22)
    by Idearc on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:04:52 PM EST
    I can't believe you weren't invited!

    During the primaries, you were such a strong, die-hard supporter of candidate Obama.

    p.s. Try vinegar.  I hear vinegar toughens thin skin.  Heh!


    Parent

    That's 4 (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:11:53 PM EST
    See you tomorrow.

    Parent
    i too read mr. somerby's (none / 0) (#21)
    by cpinva on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:01:59 PM EST
    saturday post. my first reaction was exactly the same as yours BTD: gee what cave have you been in the past several months? especially since i do believe he's even cited it in his own posts on the subject. i think maybe he just forgot, and it being a saturday, perhaps he was in a hurry to go do something else. bad form there.

    with regards to the dr. gates' incident, the story i read had him still outside his house, having forgotten his key and attempting to break the door in. as well, when asked by the police who he was, he refused to provide any identification, and started yelling at them.

    if true, i can certainly see why the police, having been called by someone witnessing this, might have been somewhat curious as to who he was, and why he was trying to break in to a house.

    however, there seem to be two stories here, at polar opposites of each other. it remains to be seen which is the truest version.

    Wrong on Gates (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:17:18 PM EST
    He had not forgotten his key, the door was stuck, he was inside the house when the cops arrived, he was not trying to break down the door, he did provide identification, which the cops accepted.  That's according to the police incident report.

    I'm at a loss to understand where these mangled versions of the story are coming from since the Globe and the Cambridge Chronicle all have the story straight.


    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:21:23 PM EST
    Why did the cop stay? What was the point at that point?

    What a PR disaster.

    Parent

    According to the incident report (none / 0) (#42)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:51:18 PM EST
    Gates kept demanding the officer's name, the officer kept giving it to him but Gates kept yelling at him and  wasn't hearing him.  The cop also had called Harvard campus police by that point to come help (a wise move, IMHO, since H cops are very much a part of the whole campus family and not viewed as "law enforcement" by profs), and needed to wait for them to get there.

    Steam was obviously coming out of both men's ears at this point.  The cop may have mishandled it, but it's impossible to know.  Perhaps the apparently many witnesses on the sidewalk to the whole thing will shed some light on the subject.

    I would not want to be in the shoes of the lady that called the cops in the first place.

    Parent

    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 53 comments (53 topical)

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