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Holocaust Museum Guard Dies After Shooting

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 06:25:00 PM EST
Tags: Holocaust Museum (all tags)
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One of the guards shot at the Holocaust museum has died.

Our prior thread is almost full, here's a new one to continue the discussion.

< Gunman Shoots Two at Holocaust Museum | Wednesday Night Open Thread >

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    Holocaust Museum Guard Dies After Shooting | 23 comments (23 topical)

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    Why are we reducing this to (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 10:43:00 PM EST
    a contest of my-wing-isn't-as-bad-as-that-other-wing?

    A person was killed today, and another was killed less than two weeks ago, both by people who allowed their ideology to take over whatever self-control they had, and sent them on a mission to kill.

    I don't particularly care whether they are from the right or the left; they both committed crimes and should be dealt with accordingly.

    We have always had these kinds of people among us - people who went off the deep end and shot up or blew up innocent people to make some kind of statement.  I remember not so long ago John Allen Muhammed who, with his accomplice, was randomly shooting people all over the MD-VA-DC area, and I remember feeling extremely exposed during that time - I felt much less safe then than I ever have about "terrorists" striking again.

    Right wing?  Left wing?  I just don't see where trying to make a case that one is better than or worse than the other really serves any purpose.

    let me explain: (none / 0) (#13)
    by cpinva on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 01:01:11 AM EST
    I felt much less safe then than I ever have about "terrorists" striking again.

    another one just did. according to lenin, "the purpose of terrorism is to terrorize." you'll note (he was a lawyer) that he drew no distinctions between foreign and home-grown terrorists.

    the acts recently committed were for the sole purpose of terrorizing two separate groups: 1. the pro-choice group., and 2. jews.

    these murders didn't happen during the commission of another crime, they were the crime. hence, they were terrorist attacks, designed solely to scare the public.

    you really can't get more terrorist than that.

    [ Parent ]

    You're right - it is terrorism, (none / 0) (#18)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 07:21:24 AM EST
    of the domestic kind; I was just wondering why it matters so much what wing of the political spectrum these people are on.  I don't doubt that many, if not most, of them were or are of the right-wing variety, but how does coming to that conclusion change anything?

    [ Parent ]
    You forgot about the muslim terrorist in Arkansas (none / 0) (#19)
    by Pragmatist on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 07:42:23 AM EST
    Not jobs are nut jobs.  But, unfortunately, we don't equate muslim acts of terror with same outrage that we equate acts of terror committed by anti-Semites and anti-abortionist. Why is that???

    [ Parent ]
    Get a grip (none / 0) (#20)
    by cenobite on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 10:41:50 AM EST
    I think Muslim and homegrown wingnut terror suspects should be treated just exactly the same.

    That means wingnut terrorists can look forward to:

    Going to GTMO
    Getting waterboarded, beaten, abused
    Getting held indefinitely without trial
    Getting violently force-fed if they go on a hunger strike in protest

    Also, when was the last time we went to war because of an act by a wingnut terrorist?

    So please stop the whinging. Wingnut terrorists are coddled like unique precious snowflakes compared to their Muslim fellow-travellers.

    [ Parent ]

    Coddled? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Pragmatist on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 10:52:46 AM EST
    Then why isn't the AR terrorist on his way to GITMO?  I concur that they should all be treated the same.  My frustration is that there is more moral outrage when a an anti-abortionist or anti-Semite kills someone vice when a muslim terrorist kills someone.  The recent examples of news coverage regarding Dr. Tiller & the Museum killings versus the killing of a soldier on U.S. soil.  The news media wants to ignore the muslim terrorist act because it doesn't fit the media's agenda/perception of the "religion of peace".

    [ Parent ]
    Perhaps (none / 0) (#1)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 07:24:46 PM EST
    we are all talked out on this sad issue?  What a terrible event, thoughts are with the victims and their families.

    This is a tragedy. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 07:28:13 PM EST
    And this incident should be a four-alarm wake-up call to us, that we need to address forthwith the pervasive right-wing hate speech that permeates our airwaves and now a growing percentage of public political discussions.

    Just a little while ago, FOX News' Shephard Smith denounced the "more and more frightening" tone of ever-increasing numbers of e-mails that he's receiving from people who are "out there in a scary place", of whom some are now "taking the extra step and getting the gun out." Please watch this clip (courtesy of TPM); it's rather sobering.

    The wake-up call should (none / 0) (#4)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 08:18:51 PM EST
    have happened three years ago, or more.

    [ Parent ]
    For that matter ... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 09:12:43 PM EST
    ... the same alarm bells were sounded by President Bill Clinton 14 years ago, in the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing.

    That said, regarding your linked article, I find it very hard to believe that Naveed Afzal Haq, the angry Muslim-American who shot up a Seattle Jewish center three years ago, was inspired to violence by Michael Savage or G. Gordon Liddy.

    [ Parent ]

    You lost me (none / 0) (#8)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 10:24:11 PM EST
    no idea what you mean by

    inspired to violence by Michael Savage or G. Gordon Liddy.

    No need to explain. I was linking to the article because it was targeted violence at the Jewish community that didn't seem to get much news outside of Seattle.


    [ Parent ]

    Well, it was front-page news out here. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 03:34:32 AM EST
    And I seem to remember it being the lead story on any number of network / cable news broadcasts.

    I meant that the motive offered by that guy in Seattle was different from that of Mr. von Brunn, in that von Brunn is a white supremacist. The shooter in Seattle was of Arab ancestry, and I can't see him feeding off right-wing radio.  

    That said, I must concede that the Seattle story's pretty much dropped off the public radar, to the point where perhaps 19 out of 20 people -- myself included, until today -- are unaware of the current disposition of that case.

    I've never really understood the rationale behind anti-Semitism, either in its sordid history, crackpot theory or vile practice. What motivates some people to despise Jews so, and still others to hate them to the point of apoplexy, violence, homicide and genocide, and more often than not conducted under the absolute flimsiest of contrived pretexts imaginable?

    Anyway, thanks for posting the story, and reminding us that anti-Semitism is not necessarily the exclusive province of the far-right.

    [ Parent ]

    Every time I listen (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 03:50:34 PM EST
    to "Dr" Savage (always briefly), I think of the shock jock d.j Jeff Bridges played in The Fisher King.

    We're talking about what would result if Meir Kahane's father got together with Tim McVeigh's mother -- assuning that theres a genetic component to these things.

    [ Parent ]

    I guess I'm a little short-sighted (none / 0) (#3)
    by blogtopus on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 07:38:59 PM EST
    Can someone point out which extreme left-wing groups have killed as many people as most extreme right-wing groups? Am I missing something, or does one end of the spectrum seem to have a more "direct" approach to dealing with insecurity?

    Ah heck, what good does it do? The government still won't label any far-right groups as terrorist groups, so why bother?

    Not since the '60s (none / 0) (#6)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 09:47:28 PM EST
    but this site doesn't want to go there. . . .

    [ Parent ]
    Please identify (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 10:21:20 PM EST
    the left-wing radical group of the 1960s that used -- or whose followers used -- assassination as a tactic or expression of their views.  Are you thinking of the Black Liberation Army (a '70s group)? Or the Puerto Rican FALN (also '70s) or its successor, the Macheteros ('80s)? Certainly not the Weather Underground, established in 1969, which assassinated no one.

    [ Parent ]
    Well... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 10:37:22 PM EST
    How about the Symbionese Liberation Army?.  They chalked up two murders.

    [ Parent ]
    And one of those murders ... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 03:40:08 AM EST
    ... was the deliberate assassination in 1973 of Oakland Schools Superintendent Marcus Foster.

    [ Parent ]
    They may not have assassinated anyone (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by nyjets on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 10:59:52 PM EST
    But several of those groups, including the Weather Underground were criminals and murders.

    [ Parent ]
    See comments above (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 11:33:22 PM EST
    and I do not excuse, since they have not apologized, those who killed even if it was not assassination -- such as those in the Weather Underground.

    See also the killing of young father Robert Fassnacht, working late at UW-Madison in 1970. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    i wasn't aware (none / 0) (#14)
    by cpinva on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 01:07:38 AM EST
    that to be classified as a "terrorist" group, targeted murder was required? please cite the source of your assertion.

    the radical left-wing groups of the 60's seem to have died out; they all became stock brokers or ran for public office.

    that said, several deaths were attributed to them, intentional or not. i suspect (but hey, i could be wrong!), intentions make little difference to the dead and their survivors.

    [ Parent ]

    On the "left" we currently have (none / 0) (#15)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 01:26:13 AM EST
    Animal and Enviro Rights group classified as terrorist groups and the law is pretty specific as far as classification and regards to their actions and I don't recall them mentioning murder/assassination.

    [ Parent ]
    As H. Rap Brown once said (none / 0) (#24)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 03:42:29 PM EST
    violence is as American as apple pie. No one should be any more shocked about idivuals assured of the righteousness of their cause perpetrating it than they are about the state perpetrating it in much larger numbers in thier names; but people almost always are.

    [ Parent ]
    Holocaust Museum Guard Dies After Shooting | 23 comments (23 topical)

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