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Saturday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 07:08:49 AM EST
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Still busy time for me. I have one post bubbling in my brain about the value of diversity. I do not care for the approach of some on the progressive side in describing it. They seem more focused on how it affects outcomes rather than diversity being an outcome of equality (particularly equal opportunity) itself. Thinking through how to write what I think about that issue.

What stories are you thinking about? This is an Open Thread.

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    Saturday Morning Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical)

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    Here's a story: When the NRA and Colbert (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:18:28 AM EST
    both win, you gotta love college students today:

    The University of Wisconsin-La Crosse has named its eagle mascot "Colbert" after Comedy Central TV host Stephen Colbert.  More than 3,100 students participated in the vote, whose results were announced Friday.  Colbert received 44% of the votes, followed by Ernie with 14% and Edgar and Screech with 11% each. . . .  The university of 10,000 originally chose the name Eddie. But the National Rifle Association said it trademarked that name for its gun-safety mascot.

    The UW regents probably will let this one go forward . . . unlike the name we chose for my alma mater when I was a student:  Sh*thead.

    For me it's easy enough to say (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by andgarden on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:34:53 AM EST
    that increased diversity is good politics and good policy. But I would be for it even if it weren't good politics.

    the whole thing on both sides... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by pluege on Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:53:28 PM EST
     is ridiculous.

    you couldn't pick a worse defender of minority rights than clarence thomas.

    Likewise it is wrong to assume a white male doesn't have the capacity to comprehend the issues important to women and people of color.

    certainly all other qualifications being roughly equal, it is best if society's diversity is roughly reflected in all organizations. But it is just wrong and stupid to put race or gender as a priority in the selection of a supreme court justice.

    It would also be completely disingenuous for any one to claim that there are not supremely qualified women, minorities, or homosexuals for the SCOTUS and I have no doubt that Obama can find one. My bigger concern is that Obama will try to please the wingnuts (an impossibility) by picking someone way too close to the conservative agenda.

    I have never been happy with the use of diversity (none / 0) (#1)
    by esmense on Sat May 09, 2009 at 09:28:20 AM EST
    as an argument, ususally THE argument, for programs and actions that should be intended, first and foremost, to provide economic justice. The diversity argument seems to be that the reason to make determined and special effort to open educational and economic opportunities to groups that have for generations been entirely or mostly denied them is because doing so provides privileged white boys with a culturally expanding experience (that will be useful in today's global marketplace and social environment). In a goofy, mostly, I think, unconscious, way it makes affirmative action about overcoming the presumed prejudices of, and providing some benefit to, the most privileged majority -- rather than about rectifying and compensating for past legal and social restraints that severely limited the economic rewards and opportunities available to certain groups in the past and therefore denied current members of those groups their inheritance -- the fruits of their forebears labor.

     

    It's politics (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:10:55 AM EST
    Not policy. A sort of "death tax" chant for a good policy.

    I'm with you in that I do not view diversity as a policy GOAL but rather the natural outcome of a laudable policy goal - equality and equal opportunity.

    In a way, the VDARE/Sully/Murray argument is honest - it attempts to justify a non-diverse outcome as being the natural result of equality and equal opportunity - it posits that non-whites and women are inferior and therefore they SHOULD be underrepresented in certain fields and in terms of power in society.  

    Parent

    Diversity needs to be a policy goal (none / 0) (#47)
    by ericinatl on Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:32:58 PM EST
    The reality is that there is NEVER just one candidate who is perfect for any job or position.  There are always a multitude of people who could do the job.  But left to their own devices, people will ALWAYS choose people like them (who are otherwise qualified).  Since straight, white people are the ones who have always been in power, they will naturally always choose someone like themselves.  It reinforces the psychological aspect of belonging and otherwise satiates their egos.

    In order to break this cycle, you need an affirmative goal of DIVERSITY.  Because there is almost always an African-American, a Hispanic-American, an Asian-American, a LGBT American who is qualifed for the job, but is passed over because he or she does not RELATE as well to the bosses.  People always talk about FIT at jobs -- what this means is -- are they like me?  Do they look like me?  Worship the same God as me?  Etc. Etc.

    We need diversity.

    Parent

    Diversity is an admirable goal but a weak (none / 0) (#60)
    by esmense on Sat May 09, 2009 at 08:05:04 PM EST
    rationale for affirmative action.

    Parent
    Diversity in corporate culture. (none / 0) (#57)
    by Fabian on Sat May 09, 2009 at 07:12:00 PM EST
    The point of diversity training (or various other phrases) in corporations is so that the valuable employees that the corporation has spent time finding, hiring and training aren't driven out, marginalized or made otherwise less productive by the attitudes of the people they work with.

    In other words - it's plain old pragmatism.

    Parent

    Big stories for me are (none / 0) (#2)
    by kenosharick on Sat May 09, 2009 at 09:38:39 AM EST
    health care and (of course)gay marriage.  If we cannot get universal health coverage of some type now- with majorities in both houses and a Dem president we never will. I am not very hopeful though due to the power and influence of the insurance companies- I remember those stupid, but influential "Harry and Louise" ads in 1993. As for marriage equality- things seem to be trending our way. A few decades from now people (most) will wonder what all the fuss was about.

    In 1993... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by DET103 on Sat May 09, 2009 at 09:56:54 AM EST
    ...AND 2008. This Dem president used the very same ads againt his opponent, not sure we should be surprised that we're not getting it.

    Parent
    Unlike 1993, I believe many doctors are (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:05:06 AM EST
    ready for serious reform. My PCP, for example, opposed any sort of reform in 1993 and aligned with the insurance companies to help defeat reform, like the majority of physicians did. That was a mistake for him personally, he tells me, because the insurance companies ultimately rose to power and as king, could now give a sh*t less about doctors. Doctors are angry at the insurance giants and can be rallied to support serious reform. Let's hope our political leaders read the bones correctly.

    Parent
    One of the other arguments (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:18:22 AM EST
    against health care reform has proven to be just as false. One of the big arguments was that a government run program would deny you the care that your doctor(s) think you need. As one of the growing number of people who has had my INSURANCE Co. refused to allow me to have the treatment my doctors recommended, I can testify that the insurance giants could give a sh*t  about providing the best care for their customers. Profit is king and who cares if the patient dies.

    Parent
    I think this is an excellent argument, and (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by Anne on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:35:50 AM EST
    one I would like to hear Democrats use more often, along the lines of:

    Republicans and those opposed to a single payer health care system like to scare people by telling them that with a government-administered plan, they might be denied the care they need.  What they don't tell you is that private health insurance companies have for a long time been denying people the care they and their doctors believe they should have.  Why?  Because care denied improve the corporate bottom line, even as it may not be improving the health of people who pay thousands of dollars in insurance premiums.

    The more truth that is told about private insurers, the less attractive the look.

    Parent

    Ain't that the truth... (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by DET103 on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:03:41 AM EST
    ...I, who have paid premiums my entire adult life, and can now can barely open my mouth, suffering 24/7 with unimaginable pain from my TMJ, and in trying to use my insurance for the very first time, spend most of my non-working hours fighting with Aetna while shelling out thousands of my own money.

    Parent
    Yet, there's nothing wrong with the health care (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:14:58 AM EST
    system in the US. Right. Just like the Pope is a Baptist.

    Parent
    Is TMJ.... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 01:01:47 PM EST
    ...covered under your policy?  In my experience, in most polices it is an excluded coverage, unless the result of an accident.  

    Big Health considers it a dental problem as opposed to a medical one.  

    Like I said below, don't hesitate to call your Division of Insurance and see what, if any, help then can provide.  No sense fighting Aetna alone if you don't have to.

    Parent

    Health practitioners tend to think of TMJ (none / 0) (#68)
    by DeborahNC on Sun May 10, 2009 at 06:16:52 AM EST
    dysfunction as a dental problem, but if it's chronic and generally painful, then ultimately it will affect several body systems.

    It should be covered under general health insurance, but since it's historically been treated by dentists, most insurance companies will try to avoid paying for it. Most health insurers are scum, imo.

    Parent

    If DET stands for Detroit (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat May 09, 2009 at 01:06:01 PM EST
    Go to (or call) the Detroit Mercy Dental School.  My wife had some great work there done very cheaply and done very well.  The treated her really well.  If DET does not stand for detroit call your local dental school.

    Parent
    I wholly agree. (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:11:16 AM EST
    The line of BS on this issue generally goes something like, "who do you want making decisions about your health -- big government or your doctor?" Technically your doctor can make a decision but the insurance companies can and do trump any decision the doctor makes. And I would venture to guess that most everyone in the US has had a run-in or two with some insurance giant over a decision to countermand a doctor's orders. Thus, advocates of health care reform need to frame the real question along the lines -- who knows best about your health care matters, your insurance company's claims reviewer with no medical background, sitting in a cubicle hundreds of miles away, whose annual bonus is based on a number of claims denied, or, your doctor? Health care reform can ensure that the latter shall be the case.  

    Parent
    These days... (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 12:55:46 PM EST
    ...it is most often diagnosis/procedure codes programmed into the claims system that deny a claim rather than an actual, live person.  Claims getting denied for Pre-existing conditions, not a covered benefit and not medically neccesary are the most popular.  

    My advise to everyone who finds themselves in the position of having benefits denied to is follow the appeals process that is outlined in your policy.  Yeah, it is a pain in the butt, but at least that way you get actual medical professionals involved in the review.  And the Company's hate it--especially if you end up getting to an external, independent review.

    If all else fails and you have a small group or individual plan, get ahold of your State's Division of Insurance.  Helping consumers is what they're all about.  

    Parent

    Quite often your physician or (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 09, 2009 at 01:35:02 PM EST
    medical facility will either pursue the appeal(s) for you or help you with the appeal(s). Unfortunately, going through all the levels in an appeal process is time consuming and often treatment (tumors do not stop growing etc) can not be delayed long enough to go through all the steps. That is what happened with me.

    Parent
    Did your Dr's.... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:09:30 PM EST
    ...pursue an expediated appeal process on your behalf, MO?  That cuts the time period for resolution way back here.  

    Even with the provider handling or helping in the appeal, it still comes down to the BigHealth's lawyers handling the appeal on one end and the provider's administrative staff handling on the other end.  Not really a fair fight from a consumer perspective when it comes down to knowing how to game the system to one's advantage.

    As the Clash once sang, Know Your Rights

    Parent

    I am pretty sure that they (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:31:10 PM EST
    did pursue an expedited appeal process and went through the first 2 levels of the process. It is my understanding that the 1st is an automatic "No." The center's experience with my provider was not encouraging and my tumor was extremely aggressive, already large  and growing rapidly. My Dr.s did not think we should delay treatment any further and even "standard treatment" was better than no treatment. My tumor proved to be resistant to standard treatment and we were faced with operating on a tumor that was larger than anyone wanted to have to deal with.  Would the alternate treatment have been more effective? Won't ever know. I only know that my doctors wanted to pursue the alternate route and could not because my expensive Insurance provider would not pay for the treatment even though my medical facility would have paid some of the costs.  
     

    Parent
    Agree Totally, Plus (none / 0) (#23)
    by CDN Ctzn on Sat May 09, 2009 at 12:56:21 PM EST
    coming from a country that has Universal Healthcare, I can honestly tell you that it is the Doctor, and ONLY the Doctor who makes your heath decisions. PLUS, there are NO restrictions to your choice of Doctor or Doctors.

    Parent
    Please don't perpetuate myths (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Honyocker on Sat May 09, 2009 at 06:06:21 PM EST
    about universal healthcare.  The common element in all universal healthcare systems is rationing (not that we don't rationing in the U.S.).  The Doctor may make the determination about your health care needs, but that does not mean you will receive what a doctor determines you need.  Not by a long shot.

    Parent
    Yes, here we ration by personal wealth (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by sallywally on Sat May 09, 2009 at 06:48:34 PM EST
    not by need of any sort.

    Parent
    I Don't Understand Your Comment (none / 0) (#66)
    by CDN Ctzn on Sun May 10, 2009 at 01:36:01 AM EST
    Are you referring to the healthcare system in Canada? That's the country I was referring to, and I stick by my claim; Doctors make the decision and provide the care. There is no interferance by the Government, so I don't understand your remark when you say that;
    The Doctor may make the determination about your health care needs, but that does not mean you will receive what a doctor determines you need.  Not by a long shot.


    Parent
    I Know Several Doctors (none / 0) (#21)
    by CDN Ctzn on Sat May 09, 2009 at 12:52:40 PM EST
    that would LOVE to see universal healthcare. It would mean getting paid and not having to twist the insurance companies arms to pay for visits and proceedures.
    As a transplanted Canadian, the doctors I know up there are in no hurry to leave their practices and move South. They get paid for services rendered and are content.

    Parent
    Diversity for diversity's sake? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Joe Steel on Sat May 09, 2009 at 09:46:59 AM EST
    They seem more focused on how it affects outcomes rather than diversity being an outcome of equality (particularly equal opportunity) itself

    Diversity for diversity's sake?  

    That sounds like a prescription for disaster.  A focus on diversity for diversity's sake can lead to manipulation of standards and perceptions of injustice such as those which sparked the anti-affirmative action movement.

    No one has advocated for that (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:06:56 AM EST
    Not even the people I plan to disagree with.

    Not sure what you think you are responding to.

    Parent

    I hear people advocating for that (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:15:44 AM EST
    all the time.  But then, I'm in academe. :-)

    Parent
    Fortunately for me, U of M, in an (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:26:13 AM EST
    earlier era, accepted a percentage of out-of-state students to provide a diverse student body for the predominantly in-state students.  

    Parent
    Yeh, sure, right -- that's why (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:14:50 AM EST
    we all want out-of-state students.

    Nothin' to do with the fact that you paid a lot more.:-)

    Parent

    True, that. Well, my hardworking parents. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by oculus on Sat May 09, 2009 at 07:07:16 PM EST


    Parent
    We live in a world of unequal opportunity. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Joe Steel on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:58:32 AM EST
    Not sure what you think you are responding to.

    We live in a world of unequal opportunity.  As a goal, diversity as "an outcome of equality (particularly equal opportunity) itself" demands a way to equalize the opportunity.

    Parent

    Puerto Rico (none / 0) (#19)
    by phat on Sat May 09, 2009 at 12:06:47 PM EST
    I have a friend who is going to be down there soon and I seem to remember some good recommendations of restaurants on Talkleft.

    Any good ideas? What 2 things should someone visiting Puerto Rico not miss?

    I recall BTD mentioning some (none / 0) (#30)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:24:04 PM EST
    good establishments in Puerto Rico

    Parent
    I tried to search the archives (none / 0) (#67)
    by phat on Sun May 10, 2009 at 01:37:53 AM EST
    Not easy on this blog.

    BTD apparently doesn't read the comments on open threads.

    I tried.

    Parent

    BTD recommended... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Sun May 10, 2009 at 09:18:39 AM EST
    a spot called Dragonfly to me, but I never made it, walked into some random joint in Old San Juan and the grub was real good...sorry I can't remember the name.

    I enjoyed walking the city walls...and others said Bioluminescent Bay was really cool.

    Have fun phat!

    Parent

    Massive takedown on stress test kabuki (none / 0) (#20)
    by lambert on Sat May 09, 2009 at 12:18:23 PM EST
    Yves: Details on Banks' Victory Over Treasury in Stress Tests Emerge. Horrific.

    I think diversity (none / 0) (#27)
    by JamesTX on Sat May 09, 2009 at 01:43:32 PM EST
    can be taken from many perspectives, some which may be favored by an individual as more important than others. Diversity, from an ethical perspective as a desired outcome or goal, is good. But that doesn't mean the utility of diversity is not also a good goal. Good things look good from more than one direction. Diversity is the biological basis of evolution. That is good. Diversity is a desirable goal to ensure rights for all and justice. That is good, too. I am not sure I understand why one good side of diversity is better than another.

    Hey, Mile, (none / 0) (#29)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:21:50 PM EST
    I suppose you're thinking the Nuggets chances are pretty good today. I suspect Dirk will be a bit distracted. I think the Mavs win this one. Nuggets will lack the horsepower for the 4th quarter. After today, Nuggets win the next two.

    Wow... (none / 0) (#58)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 07:17:49 PM EST
    ...now that was a game!  Physical, hard fought play-off basketball wire to wire.  

    Cuban's going to cry about the last non-call, but the refs do tend to shallow their whistles in situations like that.  Good job by Melo to keep playing and hit a huge shot at the end.  

    Parent

    I'll repeat: Mark Cuban, the Jerry Jones (none / 0) (#65)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 11:09:02 PM EST
    of the NBA. What a game. I now look for the Nuggets to sweep. What do you think?

    Parent
    I think it's over... (none / 0) (#72)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun May 10, 2009 at 10:01:06 AM EST
    ...we'll have to wait and see if it takes more than one more game to make it official.  I just hope Monday's game doesn't turn into an all-out brawl.

    Pretty odd that the league office threw the officials under the bus so quickly--almost like they were trying to placate Cuban. Or trying to take the air out of his complaint...

    Parent

    The carping Cuban needs to quiet down (none / 0) (#73)
    by easilydistracted on Sun May 10, 2009 at 11:12:46 AM EST
    the Mavs just flat blew it. The predicament of the Mavs in the waning seconds was self-imposed. First, they permitted the Nuggets to hang close. I don't mean to dis the play of the Nuggets, but the Mavs missed two free throws in the last two minutes even before Dirk at the eight second mark tried and missed with a jumper rather than driving the lane. Then he goes to the line and heaves, well, a wounded duck. And as for that foul, yes perhaps it was missed. but isn't it sort of a standard practice in the NBA when you have a foul to give for the fouling player to bear-hug the other player. Maybe that's what the ref was expecting.

    Parent
    Naw... (none / 0) (#31)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:25:43 PM EST
    ...I'm a little worried about this game.  The long lay-off, it being pretty much a must win game for the Mavs, playing in the afternoon, the home crowd emotion, the pride factor...

    And the (none / 0) (#32)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:28:19 PM EST
    "lets get behind Dirk" factor.

    Parent
    Huh.... (none / 0) (#34)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:31:33 PM EST
    ...don't know why that didn' nest.  Must be the W&B.

    What is the story with Dirk?  Was that woman scamming him or does he run around with a questionable crowd?

    Parent

    Probably a bit of both. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:44:00 PM EST
    Apparently Dirk has been with her for some time after having first met in Houston. She's been staying at his mansion. Supposedly they are engaged and she is allegedly pregnant with his child. Reports are he knew of some of her past legal problems but thought they were satisfied. About a month or so ago, a background check in connection with a pre-nup disclosed a cornucopia of outstanding criminal matters. I think he was smitten by her and refused to believe the stuff he was hearing.

    Parent
    Ah... (none / 0) (#38)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 03:00:33 PM EST
    ...the perils and pitfalls of being a professional athelete.  And the downside of being smitten like a kitten.

    Parent
    I believe she was working in (none / 0) (#37)
    by easilydistracted on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:45:11 PM EST
    a gentlemen's club in Houston, when they met.

    Parent
    Re: Diversity (none / 0) (#35)
    by Miss Led on Sat May 09, 2009 at 02:32:17 PM EST
    There are studies that show, for example, a diverse Board of Directors correlates with better results for the company. That is great.

    But I do agree that our focus seems skewed away from benefits and advantages for people and toward benefits for companies and their monetary bottom lines.

    There doesn't seem to be a consensus that it is a good thing for workers to be happy - in and of itself, as an end.

    It is only seen as valuable if the workers being happy benefits the company. That is skewed, IMO.

    I read a blog called (none / 0) (#39)
    by ding7777 on Sat May 09, 2009 at 03:21:31 PM EST
    Acting White; give it a try!

    Interesting (none / 0) (#40)
    by nycstray on Sat May 09, 2009 at 03:40:09 PM EST
    Especially seeing that people still get all bothered with white/black fashion photography all these years later. I didn't follow the links to read the discussions going on (trying not to procrastinate too much from my kitchen putzing), but kinda surprised it still creates them to any degree. I will read later though, as I'm curious how much of the discussion speaks from the (true) creative side.

    Thanks for the link

    Parent

    Acting White (none / 0) (#42)
    by ding7777 on Sat May 09, 2009 at 04:05:42 PM EST
    doesn't post many comments (they need approval 1st) but its the calmness of Collier's replies to the comments that are refreshing

    Parent
    Pork (none / 0) (#41)
    by nycstray on Sat May 09, 2009 at 04:00:49 PM EST
    No, not the earmark pork, but the kind you eat. Last night while cruising around to my various sites, I saw a "pork promotional ad" on one of the side bars that led me to this site. Of course I had to click, lol!~, if just to see the spin. Also thought it was interesting seeing how quick they got out there with the "facts". I need to do some checking to see how they compare to peanuts and pistachios {grin}

    One or 2 glaring statements, unless WHO has changed their tune, they think you can get the flu from pork (no not a panic comment from me, just pointing out conflicting info as of yesterday), and what they say about factory farmed pork is just well . . . .

    If anyone is wondering about pork purchasing and safety etc, I say, look into pastured pork from local producers. I have no qualms about eating pork from my local rancher. I know she doesn't vaccinate (they shed the virus after vaccination, which happens at large facilities), they sep anyone that shows illness and treat and don't return to the herd (or whatever they call it) that is for the customers. They use no antibiotics etc (unless nec on ill/no return to heard ones) and the pigs are pastured (roaming the pastures instead of contained in cramped quarters). To find local sources of pork, you can check eat wild and local harvest. In most cases, the websites of your local sustainable farmers will have plenty of info on how they raise their animals/crops and if you email or call, they are more than happy to talk to you. You will find many listings on those sites where they don't have a site. Don't hesitate to pick up the phone or contact them via whatever means they list. You will also find some are not organic certified, there are very valid reasons for that, but it doesn't mean they have poor raising practices. Check in with them, they'll tell you why.

    And for the record, I don't think you need to run screaming from factory farmed pork because of the flu, but I do think you should run from it for other reasons  ;)

    One of those other reasons... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat May 09, 2009 at 04:26:48 PM EST
    ...is the effect that BigPig has enviromentally.  I'll spare everyone the long lecture, but suffice to say that it is killing rivers and polluting watersheds in places like Iowa.  

    And then there is the ungodly stink.

    Parent

    BigPig is quite scary, imo (none / 0) (#63)
    by nycstray on Sat May 09, 2009 at 09:52:23 PM EST
    as are BigCow and BigChicken. I would never want to look at samples under a microscope of what's breeding in some of those places.

    They are working very hard at trying to convince people they are the environmentally safe ones though. Did you know that sustainably raised cattle trample grass and have a bit of gas (I'm guessing they have less gas eating a natural diet than the BigCows that eat distiller grains) so you should eat the BigCows if you want to be green?! lol!~  Lordy they drive me nuts I tell ya!

    Did you read the safe pork link about their take on BigPig? I have to wonder how much people buy into that type of hype anymore. What with all the crap we've heard about big producers lately and their infested production facilities/fields and massive recalls. Not to mention toxic additives etc . . . .

    Eat safe :)

    Parent

    Thought I'd Change The Narrative (none / 0) (#44)
    by CDN Ctzn on Sat May 09, 2009 at 04:38:23 PM EST
    and provide this link to a story that depicts an incredible act of heroism that occured in my hometown this past week. You might also want to check out this link for an update!
    Enjoy

    Thank you for that link - (none / 0) (#45)
    by Anne on Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:24:08 PM EST
    Just goes to show that good things can come from the most unexpected places.

    Parent
    Truman a war criminal? (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:25:41 PM EST
    Apparently Jon Stewart thought so; for a whole three or four days -- right up until the "Give em Hell" sacred cow/Pendergast consigliere's acolytes at the network quashed another thought crime and Stewart was forced to apologize. Pearl Harbor changed everything, after all.

    Parent
    Hey, Canadian -- he's from the First Nations (none / 0) (#48)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:48:27 PM EST
    and the kid he rescued also may be, with that French name (I'm from French Canadians, too).

    Here's the guy's backstory -- and his immediate future, when his long-lost cousins will get him to the reservation to see his father for the first time in years . . . and to leave the bravery medal with his father to be able to boast about his son, after all.  I hope the sad story keeps getting happy endings.

    Parent

    The slavish devotion to celebrating diversity (none / 0) (#50)
    by Honyocker on Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:55:39 PM EST
    by so many faux progressives, except when it is diversity they don't like, makes it hard to take the broader progressive movement seriously.  My sister in law, a faux progressive in Seattle (land of progressive hypocrisy) is a great example.  She celebrates diversity by only associating with people who think exactly as she does.  Last year, my brother told me she almost needed to go to therapy when she saw a yard sign for a Republican candidate go up in their neighborhood.  A Republican...in...their...neighborhood.  

    Ha! Sounds like my neighborhood (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 06:16:56 PM EST
    complete with too many coffee shops.

    Sounds like my family, too -- oh so tolerant of diversity, except for the two who turned Republican.  Oh, and except for me last year, when I was for Clinton, so it meant I didn't want diversity.  The sibs were incapable of seeing that gender might matter in diversity, too.

    I have little patience with such people anymore.

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    On the other hand (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by hollyfromca on Sat May 09, 2009 at 06:34:54 PM EST
    I think that one's political party goes to the core of who one is, especially these days.  I don't want to hang out with anybody who thinks it's cool to deny people extended unemployment benefits and refuse stimulus money(like some of the crazy Republican governors).  I don't want to hang out with people who want to stop stem cell research (in 7 years they expect a one-hour stem cell procedure to stop macular degeneration).  And I sure don't want to hang out with the crazies who basically think that the earth is flat.  I just think they are flat out wrong and often mean-sprited, so what would be the point?  

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    None of the Repubs (none / 0) (#61)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 08:08:30 PM EST
    to whom I'm related or with whom I work are that nuts.  Stereotypes are one of the reasons we need diversity, so we find out how wrong our sweeping overgeneralizations can be.

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    Good! (none / 0) (#62)
    by hollyfromca on Sat May 09, 2009 at 08:20:35 PM EST
    I know that is an over generalization and I know that people don't always vote rationally on policy according to their best interests.  But I think if somebody voted for George Bush's second term, they knew they were going to get conservative supreme court justices, no action on global warming, no tax cuts for middle class....etc, and that kind of makes them a little crazy.

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    And a lot of those then voted for Obama (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Cream City on Sat May 09, 2009 at 10:22:42 PM EST
    so they suddenly returned to sanity?  Careful. . . .

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    No tax cuts for the middle class? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Honyocker on Sun May 10, 2009 at 05:47:38 PM EST
    That's funny, my household income puts me into the category of lower-middle class...just a guy in the construction trades who does hands-on labor for an hourly wage or piece work compensation...you know, the kind of person that faux progressives claim to stand for.  My tax obligation went down as a result of the Bush tax cuts, as did the tax obligation of people making considerably less than I do, thanks to the 10% bracket created by the Bush tax cuts (yes, shocking, but the Bush tax cuts are part of the reason that many people in the lowest income brackets now pay no income taxes at all.) Sweeping generalizations are standard fare for faux progressives, but at least try and have half a clue.

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    She apparently overreacts (none / 0) (#55)
    by sallywally on Sat May 09, 2009 at 06:58:28 PM EST
    quite strenuously. Something that might be associated more with particular personalities who could be on any side of the political spectrum....

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    War? (none / 0) (#59)
    by lentinel on Sat May 09, 2009 at 07:21:23 PM EST
    Is there still a war in Iraq?
    Are we still spending 500,000 dollars a minute there?
    Did we just slaughter 147 civilians in Afghanistan because the bad guys were hiding out amongst them?

    Obama is in charge... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Sun May 10, 2009 at 09:24:22 AM EST
    war is peace now lentinel...ignorance is strength, and freedom is slavery.

    Maybe if a Repub wins in 2012 the bloody and expensive occupations will be issues again...until then pay no attention.

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    Why, yes. Yes, on this Mothers' Day (none / 0) (#71)
    by Cream City on Sun May 10, 2009 at 10:00:40 AM EST
    a young friend of mine is not with her mother, because her parents are seeing off their son being sent to Afghanistan, and the worst area of it.  On Mother's Day.  Could somebody get these idjits a calendar and maybe call off the call-ups coming for Father's Day?  Many of these families will have sad memories of the day that they last saw their sons and daughters alive.  Let them have some joy with what will be left to them for future Mother's and Father's Days.  Make call-ups on weekdays or something. . . .

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    Saturday Morning Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical)

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