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White Man's Burden

Matt Yglesias writes:

As anyone who knows me can attest, I don’t have what you’d call a strong “Hispanic” identity. . . . But for all that, I have to say that I am really truly deeply and personally pissed off [about] the tenor of a lot of the commentary on Sonia Sotomayor. The idea that any time a person with a Spanish last name is tapped for a job, his or her entire lifetime of accomplishments is going to be wiped out in a riptide of bitching and moaning about “identity politics” is not a fun concept for me to contemplate. Qualifications like time at Princeton, Yale Law, and on the Circuit Court that work well for guys with Italian names suddenly don’t work if you have a Spanish name. Heaven forbid someone were to decide that there ought to be at least one Hispanic columnist at a major American newspaper.

I do have a strong identity with my hispanic background and have been in a rage about this since Jeff Rosen pulled his BS. In such a rage that I have not trusted myself to write on the issue. I am glad to see someone as level headed as Matt is seeing what I am seeing. Lets me know I am not crazy.

Speaking for me only

< Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread | Media Ignorance? Or Media Racism? >
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    I think it is desperation (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:19:00 PM EST
    as much as anything.  well, desperation and the desire to raise as much money as possible off their audiences racism.  
    they know they cant stop this nomination.  I think it was a gutsy smart pick from Obama.  I thought he would go with someone who was a little "in your face" from the wingnuts point of view.
    he seems to have done that.

    hooray.


    She raised the issue (1.00 / 1) (#7)
    by maddog on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:26:43 PM EST
    The repubs are just picking up on it.  When she says that a latina woman can come to a better decision than a white man, she raised the issue.  The repubs would be derilict in their duties if they didn't raise the issue and question her on it.  

    In my book that type of statement should be below a ciruit court judge who graduated from Princeton.

    Parent

    she probably regrets using the word (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:29:57 PM EST
    "better".  but the sentiment is hard to argue with or doubt.

    I think it will be a small speed bump.  no more.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:33:43 PM EST
    Yeah she raised the issue.

    Mygawd.

    Parent

    Yglesias Award (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:39:07 PM EST
    for Rod Dreher, who actually took the time to read the speech and now acknowledges he misinterpreted that single out-of-context quote.

    Parent
    are Faux and Rush (none / 0) (#14)
    by of1000Kings on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:36:31 PM EST
    still bringing up that comment without any regard for context?

    I know they were yesterday, which is why I'm not watching any news today...

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:40:21 PM EST
    they are all still walking around with the same talking points.
    And yes, my TeeVee is still on one piece . . . . for now.

    Parent
    She "raised" (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by lilburro on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:39:05 PM EST
    the issue?  Are you talking about this lecture as provided in part by Steve M and in whole here?

    A lecture she gave in 2001??

    I don't see how her acknowledgment of her race constitutes "raising the issue" especially when she acknowledged this 8 years ago.  Or perhaps she raised the issue 20 years ago.  Or 50 years ago...or 54 years ago.  

    The fact that this one lecture is being so aggressively scrutinized is IMO just a reflection of our media's obsession with her race...and our inability to process human beings that aren't straight white men.


    Parent

    As if (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:45:03 PM EST
    white men in robes don't rely on their own background and cultural perspective to make decisions. Sheesh, at least she's honest. If you want to know if her decisions are slanted because she's a woman and Hispanic, take a look at her actual decisions, not just one little comment acknowledging that a persons background affects how they perceive the world.

    As for that comment she made about Appeals Courts being a place where policy is made, well DUH. If the decisions made there don't impact policies, then what the heck's the point. The courts are the final corroboration or obstruction to policy decisions made in the other branches of government. Again, her acknowledgement of reality is just that - her ability to recognize and tell the truth.


    Parent

    "her ability (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:51:14 PM EST
    to recognize and tell the truth"

    stunning isnt it?  
    this may be a silly reason to like her, I had never actually heard her speak until yesterday, but she really really reminds me of a very dear friend who died not long ago waiting for a kidney transplant.  she too was a diabetes sufferer.

    every time I see her now I see Eve.
    I love thinking of my late friend Eve on the SC.

    Parent

    Put it back into the context in came from (none / 0) (#25)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:51:24 PM EST
    if you're going to make a judgment on it.

    You mischaracterize the comment the way you have phrased it.

    Parent

    I can't wait (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by denise k on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:29:19 PM EST
    I look forward to your take.  I have been appalled. I think the hatred is so transparent that is only going to damage those spewing it.  Criticizing the pronunciation of her name. (by accenting its last syllable) (Krikorian) and calling her Maria. (isn't every Puerto Rican New Yorker named Maria?) (Huckabee) Calling her a racist. (for saying her background colors her understanding of cases) (Gingrich...)  Then, of course, there are the comments that I would characterize as more gender-tinged about her supposed brashness and her lack of intellectual ability.

    I don't see any of this is working against her.  Instead, it is the right wing that looks brash, racist and lacking in intellectual depth.  Projection anyone?

    it will further isolate them (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:31:27 PM EST
    from both women and Hispanics.  no doubt exactly what Obama had in mind.


    Parent
    So the very thing (none / 0) (#37)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:00:22 PM EST
    that Matt Yglesias and some people here and are complaining about: The GOP playing "identity politics" - you agree that is what is taking place by Obama making this nomination.

    Interesting.

    Parent

    Isn't all politics (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:03:11 PM EST
    identity politics to a degree? The complaint I believe is how the identity is being treated.

    Parent
    that (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:05:08 PM EST
    and the fact that Obama knowing this would happen and giving the republicans enough rope to hang themselves hardly, at least IMO, is the same as the kind of gender/race politics coming from the other side.

    Parent
    Which is why (none / 0) (#73)
    by coast on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:28:08 PM EST
    the Republicans should drop any arguements against this selection.  It is only going to be looked upon negatively and will ultimately not accomplish anything.  Letting this appointee by without a fight makes the most sense in the long run.

    Parent
    The poster (none / 0) (#72)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:27:14 PM EST
    I responded to didn't disagree with identity politics or how it was being treated. In fact he seemed to agree with it being played by Obama. So in his mind what the some in the GOP are complaining about - that being Obama playing identity politics - the poster agrees that is exactly what Obama is doing.

    Parent
    Hello (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:37:59 PM EST
    This country has been playing identity politics for 230+ years.  Up until the 2008 primary, the only identity that mattered was being white and male.  

    If you were white and male, for the last 230 years, you got an automatic advantage.  If you also happen to have a monied family, the advantage was exponentially greater.  No one challenged identity politics with the 43 white males......

    with the exception of three, gender has totally mattered on the Supreme Court.  
    And with the electorate being 51% female, with under 20% in elected positions nationally, what does that tell you about identity politics.

    People, especially white males, need to get over it.  You have ruled identity politics in this country, hell world wide for years...it's over.
    Women and minorities will push to be elected, appointed and heard.  Deal with it.

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:29:37 PM EST
    no, not exactly the same.  like I said before recognizing and using racism or your opponents to your advantage is not the same as being a racist.

    Parent
    So you can (none / 0) (#86)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:38:34 PM EST
    use racism without being a racist? Well the ex-polltaxers down south would love that view!

    I think if you are going with what you are you'd be better served calling it affirmative action and give Obama some wiggle room.

    Parent

    I think by "use racism" (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by CST on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:49:35 PM EST
    Howdy meant "use the fact that some republicans are racist" against them.  As in, let them show what bigots they are and have it turn the voters off.  Thats not the same as being racist.  Just letting the other side show off their dark side.

    The point about "identity politics" is that we consider it an add-on while the GOP is arguing that it is the only thing.  The GOP is saying the only reason she was picked is her identity, implying that she is otherwise not qualified.  We are saying that her identity is a benefit, but it is certainly by no means her only qualification.  She is perfectly qualified on the merits and the identity-politics factor is just icing on the cake.  And smart politicaly because it lets the GOP hang themselves with their own racist and sexist remarks.

    Parent

    thank you (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:55:10 PM EST
    for, as usual, being more articulate than me.
    yes.  thats what I meant.


    Parent
    have I just been called a racist? (none / 0) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:43:39 PM EST
    I have been called worse I guess.  
    no,  I do not think using the racism of your opponents to drive a wedge between them and the rest of the voting public is racist.

    its brilliant.  

    Parent

    I didn't call you anything (none / 0) (#103)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:51:32 PM EST
    What I will do is make another suggestion though. I suggest you go to Webster's online and lookup the word "racism" and see what comes up. Then lookup the word "racist" and see what comes up. You will find that there is no distinction between the two. The are the same. So much so that for each separate word the identical entry is shown.

    Like I suggested, try using affirmative action.

    Parent

    Under what circumstances (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by denise k on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:15:22 PM EST
    would the choice of an hispanic woman or a black man or a white woman be deemed a choice on the merits -- plain and simple?  Can you think of any situations where such a person would be the best-qualified?  I can.  OTOH, if Obama had chosen a white male, couldn't it also be based on identity politics?  After all, he is non-white and he could maybe help himself with white guys.

    There are all sorts of reasons that a SCOTUS nominee is chosen.  Sotomayor is highly qualified and belongs on any short list and the fact that she was chosen needs no affirmative action excuse.  She was chosen and a man wasn't.  

    Parent

    Why are you responding to me (none / 0) (#62)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:21:31 PM EST
    with your post? I didn't even offer an opinion. I simply read the thread and commented on an outlier comment by another poster.

    Parent
    It only (1.00 / 0) (#157)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:51:50 AM EST
    works for Obama if he takes on the sexism head on. But then he looks like a hypocrite if he does considering his own patronizing and condescending behavior towards women.

    Parent
    I do (none / 0) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:03:27 PM EST
    actually.  

    Parent
    I too am enraged.... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:37:03 PM EST
    and I am especially enraged at the men like Tancredo, Scalia, and Alito.  My surname is Italian and I want to change it.....perhaps add a letter to make it sound more Hispanic than Italian.  The three names above make me ashamed.

    Having lunch today with three former colleagues, all who happen to be Hispanic, and are all female, we concur.  These buttheads are insulting and obnoxious and need to be run off the radio and off the talk shows.

    what is glaring in its absence (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:46:27 PM EST
    is disparaging comments from actual elected republicans.  they have been blissfully muted.
    a testament to a brilliant nomination.
    only from the RNC (Rush,Newt,Cheney) wing of the party.  that is to say, those who hold no real power.

    Parent
    Most likely that's because (none / 0) (#30)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:54:51 PM EST
    they have no grounds to criticize her, and they know if they make groundless judgments, they'll pay for it in 2010. Repubs are in a pickle on this one.

    Parent
    exactly my point (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:57:30 PM EST
    I was not following this so closely before the pick but from what I was reading picking her did not seem smart.  to many "pitfalls", the firemen, the off the cuff statements blah blah.

    but in retrospect I think the pick was absolutely brilliant.

    Parent

    Repub Preventive Measures (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by denise k on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:03:58 PM EST
    imo we were meant to think she was a bad pick so as to prevent her from being chosen.  The strategy did not work so the RNC is in the position it hoped to prevent by pre-emptive character assassination.

    Parent
    Since they will most likely be subjected (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:59:07 PM EST
    to guilt by being a Republican, could be popcorn time as we watch them try and squirm through this.

    Parent
    when you have real people to answer to (none / 0) (#44)
    by CST on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:04:15 PM EST
    you learn to keep your mouth shut.  These goons can afford to be rabble-rousers since they have no one to answer to.  I almost wish Newt was an elected official just to see him lose.

    But I think you are right about the republicans - the only ones they are hurting are themselves.  They cannot continue as the party of conservative, white, men.  There just aren't enough of them.

    Parent

    In defense of Judge Sotomayor, (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:56:28 PM EST
    it was Turley, as I recall, who criticized her for not writing longer, more involved opinions including history.  I just spent a couple hours reading the California Supreme Court's opinion from yesterday upholding Proposition 8.  It meets these criteria but is, to me, a matter of the court justifying a poor result by issuing a too wordy opinion.

    I would suggest (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:00:32 PM EST
    that there's no way to please someone who is inclined to criticize.  Either you're a self-appointed philosopher-king prone to grandiose proclamations from on high, or you're a plodding mediocrity who never ventures beyond the cribbed context of an individual dispute.

    Parent
    "too wordy" by (none / 0) (#53)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:16:42 PM EST
    whose criteria?  Seems to me yesterday's argument is a totally subjective one with no one really being right or wrong because there are no rules or guidelines on how long a legal opinion can be.

    You fault Turley for wanting an opinion to be more explanatory or through? Frankly I can't find the fault or harm in a lengthy opinion.

    Parent

    Have you read yesterday's CA Supreme (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:18:14 PM EST
    Ct. opinion?  

    Parent
    What is in or not in (none / 0) (#93)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:42:30 PM EST
    yesterday's court opinion has nothing to do with my comment.

    Parent
    In other words (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:30:12 PM EST
    The answer to your question is no, oculus.  "I don't see what's wrong with the opinion being long but I haven't actually read it or anything."

    Parent
    One doesn't have to read it (none / 0) (#128)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 06:58:13 PM EST
    It doesn't matter how long it is. That only matters to the judge who wrote it, and what He wanted to include, he included. Period. End of story.

    As I said in an earlier post anyone can have their opinion about how long a legal opinion is or should be, but that is all it is - an opinion - which doesn't mean a lot, except to them. It certainly does not mean anything to the judge who wrote it. Why should he care what you think? He doesn't even know you or me or anyone else on this blog. Funny that didn't dawn on you.

    Besides that their isn't a person here who is qualified in California law; the specifics of the case; the specifics of the previous cases; or California constitutional law, including decades of precedent cases; etc - to even begin to say what should and should not have been in the legal opinion. And anyone here who thinks he does is delusional. Who here qualifies to be a California Supreme Court Judge? Certainly not you Steve. Read your last post as proof.

    Parent

    I may be a poor judge (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:07:12 PM EST
    but I sure as shootin' know that someone who has read an opinion is in a better position to judge whether it is overly wordy than someone who hasn't.

    Parent
    You wouldn't be a poor judge (none / 0) (#133)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:30:23 PM EST
    You wouldn't be a judge at all!

    No panic about you writing an opinion because you have to be able to read before you write and you can't read. If you could you would have seen that my comment was true. What oculus said in response to my post had nothing to do with what I wrote in my post, because he could not respond to what I said.

    Like I said in my post, another persons opinion, a lay person at that, is totally subjective, and really means squat. What oculus thinks matters not to the California Supremes. But you seem to think so. Which stacks you up where? You actually think oculus knows more about how an opinion on a state constitutional matter should be written than the judge does???!!!

    Don't you have anything better to do with your time than make smarta*s remarks?

    Parent

    I'm pretty sure (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 09:09:52 PM EST
    that oculus never intended the comment to be anything other than a subjective observation.  It's called an opinion.  People are allowed to have them, and even express them.

    You must be a hit at parties.  "Why are you attempting to critique that movie?  Do you think the director even cares what you think?  Your opinion is totally subjective and means squat!!!"

    Parent

    Thank you!!! (none / 0) (#144)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 09:34:32 PM EST
    It's called an opinion.  People are allowed to have them, and even express them.

    Exactly my point. Judges are people too. What they write and how long it is, is their opinion. Judges are allowed to have them, and even express them.

    LOL! Brilliant Steve. In an attempt for another one of your put-downs you unwittingly made my point. Good job!

    Parent

    Amazing (none / 0) (#146)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 09:38:58 PM EST
    Always declaring yourself the winner, you are.  I'll let others be the judge of whether you've made anything approximating a point in this discussion.

    Parent
    No! (none / 0) (#147)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 10:01:03 PM EST
    You are the winner Steve. You are the one who succinctly made my point. Unwittingly but succinctly. Thanks again.

    Approximating a point? Of course I did. You said so. You said I could. Everyone could.

    It's called an opinion.  People are allowed to have them, and even express them.

    Thanks for the twofer Steve.

    Parent

    /shakes head sadly, and backs away (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 10:08:14 PM EST
    You forgot the mirror (none / 0) (#149)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 10:17:05 PM EST
    you were looking into. lol

    Thanks again for the twofer Steve.

    Really.

    Sincerely.

    Parent

    Oh, for God's sake - (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Anne on Wed May 27, 2009 at 10:28:56 PM EST
    Get a room.  Please.

    Parent
    lol!~ (none / 0) (#151)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 11:07:42 PM EST
    {self censors}

    Parent
    No personal insults (none / 0) (#136)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:44:54 PM EST
    What good is a well written opinion (none / 0) (#138)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:51:57 PM EST
    if the decision itself is WRONG. The CA Supremes could have flat out said that the voters cannot change the CA Constitution to discriminate against a minority if doing so violates equal protection based on the US Constitution.

    The great and honorable judges spent a good long time justifying a bad decision.


    Parent

    The commenter to whom you are replying (none / 0) (#139)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:54:23 PM EST
    has not and will not read the opinion.  Don't waste your time.

    Parent
    It is not (none / 0) (#142)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 09:06:32 PM EST
    necessary to read the opinion to know it is long. I take your word for it that it is long. But just because you think it is too wordy doesn't mean it is. That's your opinion. The judge obviously feels different than you do and this is his case, his legal opinion. He trumps your opinion. You don't seem to get that. Why I don't know as it is a simple concept carried out across America everyday.

    Parent
    You are unbelievable, at least (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 11:29:31 PM EST
    on line.

    Parent
    The discussion I was having was not (none / 0) (#141)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 08:27:54 PM EST
    about the opinion being right or wrong. It was about the other poster saying it was too wordy so your comment to me is off topic regarding my posts.

    Parent
    As an outside observer who hasn't (none / 0) (#135)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:41:30 PM EST
    met either of you but only seen your Talkleft posts, I'd trust Steve's opinion over yours any day. You've been poned Mike.  Read it and get back to us.

    BTW, IMHO (and I sometimes do find that humble spot in myself), attorneys are not necessarily the best people to judge a SCOTUS nominee. There's a lot more riding on this than just how well they write their decisions. In incredibly brilliant lawyer may not give a d@mn about the things that I believe in. I want the one who's going to make decisions that match my values.


    Parent

    Of course, the problem is (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by dk on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:46:26 PM EST
    that we have very little information about what her values are.  We aren't going to get much of a clue about her values based on her written judicial opinions.  

    Parent
    Umm (none / 0) (#140)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:57:06 PM EST
    So how do we assess her viability as a progressive without the right wing latching on to (and criticizing her for) whatever she says during confirmation hearings?


    Parent
    Do we really need to be (none / 0) (#155)
    by dk on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:15:29 AM EST
    so driven by what the right wing thinks?  Particularly now, when Democrats control the presidency and both houses of congress, and the Republicans couldn't stop a nomination even if they wanted to launch a fight?

    Parent
    Trust this. (none / 0) (#145)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 09:38:15 PM EST
    I'm not particularly concerned with whose opinion you trust. In fact it never crossed my mind.

    Parent
    I like long opinions, IF (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ben Masel on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:12:53 PM EST
    they teach the evolution well, for lay people. If not, might as well get it over with, ie any Shabazz opinion.

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#134)
    by ChiTownMike on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:33:15 PM EST
    One that many people here seem to miss.

    Parent
    I share your anger, BTD (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by lobary on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:59:44 PM EST
    Her comments at Berkeley have been taken out of context by her critics on the right as an attack on her judicial reasoning and her ability to fairly apply the law. Life experience helps shape one's view of the facts, and judicial decisions are routinely affected by the personal histories and experiences of the judges rendering opinions in the cases before them. There's nothing exceptional about this statement.

    On the other hand, I believe it's exceptionally racist and sexist to say that the experiences of a minority woman somehow diminish her ability to apply the law fairly whereas her white male counterparts are arbiters of fairness.

    Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

    Elephant in the room...er...media (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed May 27, 2009 at 06:10:07 PM EST
    Is it just me, or do others here agree that if Sotomayer were a male, we wouldn't be subjected to these inane put-downs about her intellectual, or much else.  Clarence Thomas vs. Anita Hill, anyone?  Shame on the likes of Andrea Mitchell for not calling Al Hunt on his remark. Andrea Mitchell has the capacity for intellect, but fails to use it on far too many occasions.  And she's so busy enjoying her relationship to the "in crowd", that she's in total denial about sexism, including her own.  
    I'm not Hispanic at all, but I am disgusted and ashamed about the discourse.  Just for a reality check, I asked a female friend who is intelligent, thoughtful, and often has political opinions quite different from mine. She watched the entire press conference, and found the President's reasons for his choice compelling, and the nominee admirable.  Sotomayer's speech came down to:  I am proof of the American Dream.  I am humbled by the opportunities it has brought me, I am a strong believer in family, and I am honored by the nomination.  Geesh.  What's not to like here? The repugs have been outsmarted, & as someone else mentioned here, they are grasping at straws.  Who nominated Hunt to test the waters with such inane remarks?  

    Parent
    Delete this or ban me if you want but (1.00 / 0) (#154)
    by zaladonis on Thu May 28, 2009 at 03:48:58 AM EST
    I'm going to try to say this.

    Before Obama nominated Sonia Sotomayor there was a lot of discussion about who might be nominated, and there was an obvious concensus that the nominee would almost certainly be a woman and probably Hispanic because there'd never been an Hispanic SC justice. Even if you weren't listening you could tell that by looking at the published pictures of the top contenders and seeing that white men were virtually absent.  If we think that's a good thing then why can't we acknowledge it out loud?

    Why was that discussion okay but acknowledging the truth of it now racist and denigrating to women?  We can't attempt to purposefully diversify the bench, or anywhere, and pretend we're not trying to do it, and still be credible.

    Justice Thomas was chosen in part because he's black and Justice Guinsberg in part because she's a woman.  Most of the members of the court and our Presidents were chosen in part because they're white men. And, as Geraldine Ferraro said and got attacked for saying, part of the reason Obama succeeded, at least at some point during the Primaries, was because he was black.  If that truth is too hard for some Democrats to swallow, we should figure out why - because, as I tried to say yesterday, otherwise it just becomes an Elephant in the Room and diminishes the credibility of the Democratic Party and minorities who attain these positions.

    Maybe BTD will delete my post, and that's his right but I think it's sad that fellow progressives, Democrats, can't have a discussion about sensitive subjects without trying to shut down some voices.  That's what Bush/Cheney did; I thought we were better than that, but frankly since Obama came into the picture I've seen a lot of Democrats ganging up on other Democrats rather than trying to keep the Democratic Party truly a big tent where all are welcome.

    My two cents.  Thanks.

    Parent

    Z, I think you missed my point (none / 0) (#158)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 28, 2009 at 12:16:24 PM EST
    My point was not denial that diversity issues may have played a role in the choice of a nominee, but instead that the fact that we have a prominent, successful woman nominee has played a role in the unfettered nature of the inappropriate comments about her, e.g., she's "difficult" -- without willingness to identify sources, and she lacks intellectual heft.  Regardless of the role diversity played in the nomination, the nominee deserves to be treated with respect, and for the discussion about her to focus on factual information that is relevant to the choice of a nominee, not ad hominem attacks and blatant falsehoods.  Neither pundits nor politicians questioned Obama's intellectual qualifications for the job of President because his academic record and his discourse established his ability.  Why is the Supreme Court nominee not being treated in a similar manner?  

    Parent
    I agree with you, (1.00 / 1) (#159)
    by zaladonis on Thu May 28, 2009 at 01:47:29 PM EST
    it's because she's a woman.

    Not because she's Hispanic, as some have claimed with their accusations of racism.

    I see very little racism going on but lots of misogyny.

    During the Primaries we saw this in the denigrating things people said about Hillary while nobody did that about Obama.

    Parent

    I believe (none / 0) (#162)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:22:13 PM EST
    both racism and misogyny have reared their ugly heads.

    Parent
    It seems to me (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:04:20 PM EST
    that attempting to compare relative "difficulties" in achievement has become the internet's latest method of comparing *ick sizes.

    To think that anyone, regardless of background or ethnicity, etc., had an "easy" time achieving something like POTUS, SOS or SCOTUS is patently ridiculous.

    Sonia Sotomayor will be confirmed.

    End of story.

    Lakers by 10.


    I agreed until I read the last line. (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:09:11 PM EST
    What will happen to cause the Lakers to win by 10?

    Parent
    I hope they use Gasol & Bynum more. (none / 0) (#54)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:16:50 PM EST
    Failing that, divine intervention.

    Parent
    You should hope (none / 0) (#63)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:21:37 PM EST
    that they borrow Ben Wallace from the Cavaliers, who appear uninterested in using him.  The Lakers are soft with a capital marshmallow, and they need to find their fight.

    Parent
    True dat. (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:25:48 PM EST
    Lakers by 9. (none / 0) (#153)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 28, 2009 at 12:45:45 AM EST
    I'm just waiting for Don Imus (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Radiowalla on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:05:09 PM EST
    to say that she looks like his "cleaning lady."

    What is happening to Sotomayor is really no different that what happens on a regular basis to minorities and women in general.  Identity politics and gender politics are the evil twins of our political discourse.

    You could still be crazy and also be right. :-) (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by MikeDitto on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:15:36 PM EST
    I never let the coincidence of agreement with sane people call my insanity into question.

    My dad always said that just because you're crazy it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

    Like my geekiness, I wear my craziness as a badge of honor.

    I think it is a woman issue. They probably (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by hairspray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:20:40 PM EST
    would have been less angry if it had been a guy.  Remember how proud they were of Alberto Gonzales?

    Who is "they"? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:24:45 PM EST
    Gonzales was appointed by a GOP President.

    Parent
    Proudly touting his "Humble beginnings" (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Fabian on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:33:41 PM EST
    and so on.  

    [grumble-stupid dems-grumble-dry powder-grumble]

    Parent

    Yeah, God knows there was never a hint (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by tigercourse on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:22:42 PM EST
    of racism back in the good old days before efforts were made seek out some small level of racial/gender balance.

    No, you're not crazy; (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by andgarden on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:26:25 PM EST
    the criticism has been explicitly racist. All the way back to what Letterman did when she was first being discussed.

    But Judge Judy is Caucasian! (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:28:52 PM EST
    Explicitly Jewish, which is a little different (none / 0) (#77)
    by andgarden on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:30:38 PM EST
    But yeah, Judge Judy is a guilty pleasure of mine.

    Parent
    Perhaps your inspiration for going (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:35:16 PM EST
    to law school?  (I only watch her when I'm waiting for my car to be serviced.)

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#87)
    by andgarden on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:38:34 PM EST
    I think that was preordained since I was about 5.

    Parent
    It's been racist and sexist. (none / 0) (#88)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:38:51 PM EST
    You are not crazy. Or, if you are, (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by Anne on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:48:30 PM EST
    you are not alone, as there are a lot of others who are feeling the same way.

    Last night and again this morning, I heard the same stupid comments and questions from these people who call themselves reporters and legal experts - I have decided that it will never, ever, in a million years, dawn on them that EVERYONE brings their background and experience to whatever profession they practice - EVERYONE.  Even Sam Freakin' Alito, in his confirmation hearing, spoke oh-so-eloquently about what he brought from his experience to his role as a judge, and there were no gasps of horror, no pearls clutched, no one falling on the fainting couch at the notion that this man, this white man, had actual feelings that he did not keep under lock and key and out of his professional life.

    Are we alien beings?  So "other" that just by virtue of our gender, it follows that our professionalism, our intelligence, our ability must be questioned?  And, then you have what I will call the brown factor...race and ethnicity.

    Good God, I am disgusted and angry that here we are, in 2009, still being made to feel that we are only good enough to be able to go so far - and then, no matter what our track record, no matter what our accomplishments, the door is closed unless we can prove something beyond what should already speak for itself.

    What kills me is that almost nowhere in the media are we seeing or hearing any kind of pushback against this garbage, because even if there is a clip here or there of someone praising Sotomayor's experience and intelligence, it is sandwiched between narrative and other clips that make sure you don't take that praise too seriously.  Most mainstream media reports I have seen are prime examples of actual intellectual laziness and disingenuousness - that so many have chosen to report on the "reverse racist" comment without ever providing real context for it only reinforces how little intelligence goes into reporting.  

    It's shameful; too bad those most guilty of this garbage are not even remotely acquainted with the concept.


    "the door is closed (none / 0) (#105)
    by coast on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    unless we can prove something beyond what should already speak for itself".  Wanted to write that again because it sounds so good.

    Well said.

    Parent

    It's absolutely insane (none / 0) (#107)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:55:29 PM EST
    she's more qualified than the others were when they joined the court, so she's already out done the norm, how much more does she have to do?

    Parent
    Clearly (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:08:05 PM EST
    She needs to lighten her skin and get a sex change.

    Parent
    Ouch. (none / 0) (#117)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:31:36 PM EST
    So true though.

    I actually toyed with making my name more gender neutral at one point. Then decided I was happier with a big FU to them all :)

    Parent

    Good for you (none / 0) (#123)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:49:09 PM EST
    Be proud!

    Parent
    it's white man imperialism... (none / 0) (#110)
    by of1000Kings on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:11:51 PM EST
    We know that no group of human beings on earth likes to give up power without a struggle...

    and for white men allowing women to achieve a status that previously ONLY white mean were allowed to achieve is giving up power...

    we expect this from our country when dealing with other countries, but it does seem a bit foreign when it's one group in our country treating another group in our country in the exact same way...

    Parent

    and yes, the use of the word 'allow' (none / 0) (#112)
    by of1000Kings on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:13:15 PM EST
    was intentional...

    because it seems that still the attitude from a lot of older white men at this point...they 'allow' other races and women to play their game...

    how nice of them...

    Parent

    I liked what I heard (none / 0) (#115)
    by Fabian on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:27:00 PM EST
    on Morning Edition on NPR today.

    I admit to avoiding most other news sources.  Keeps my BP down.  (That's not to say I always agree with NPR's reporting, but at least I don't :headdesk: daily when I listen to them.)

    Parent

    Oh goody another Elephant in the room (1.00 / 1) (#78)
    by zaladonis on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:33:31 PM EST
    Many believe, and almost certainly correctly, that two of Sonia Sotomayor's most important qualifications are that she's Hispanic and a woman.

    There are more brilliant more reliably liberal or progressive minds available, including several women, but Sotomayor was chosen over them.

    Why?

    Because she's Latina.  And I think the openly gay women were scratched off the list without second thought because that's way too much controversy for Mr. No Drama Obama.  

    So okay, it's great to have a diversified Supreme Court, but if Obama's going to use "Hispanic" as a criteria then it's not all that unreasonable to discuss it and question it.  HE raised the issue by bypassing better qualified candidates who were profiled in the news.  (Did you read those profiles?! Their accomplishments are so incredible it makes me wonder why I bother taking up space!  We have some incredible liberal women in this country, and bravo for that!  And the gay ones - why aren't THEY on the cover of The Advocate or OUT instead of Mr. Closet Anderson Cooper ... but I digress.)

    Frankly, with Democrats having a filibuster-proof majority in Congress and issues like same sex marriage making their way to the US Supreme Court, IMO one's heritage is a dumb criteria.  I mean, does anybody even know Judge Sotomayor's positon on same sex marriage?  Isn't it curious that we don't?  And her position on abortion is inconclusive, which I think is very strange in a nominee from a Dem President with a Dem majority Senate.

    My two cents.

    Hey, Al Hunt, Jr. (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:35:11 PM EST
    How do you know "There are more brilliant more reliably liberal or progressive minds available, including several women, but Sotomayor was chosen over them."

    I know how you "know." Sotomayor is a Latina. That's why.

    You sir, are a racist.

    Parent

    Not disagreeing, but I certainly (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:38:13 PM EST
    wish I knew Judge Sotomayor's position on a woman's right to choose.  Only opinion I've seen had to do with federal government's withholding funds if counseling re abortion was available.  She sd. the feds. can condition how federa funds are expended.

    Parent
    Irrelevant to my comment (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:41:05 PM EST
    I will not have racism unchalllenged in my threads.

    I rather resent your comment quite frankly.

    Parent

    Please delete my comment. I'll (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:43:57 PM EST
    wait for an open thread.

    Parent
    See that's the problem (1.00 / 0) (#95)
    by zaladonis on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:43:47 PM EST
    When people are bullied from saying what they think because they'll have "Racist!!!" spit at them.

    You could have asked which people I think are better qualified but instead you spit, "Racist!" at me.

    Get a hold of yourself.

    Parent

    Ok, list the people. (none / 0) (#98)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:48:00 PM EST
    In case you missed it (none / 0) (#108)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:56:23 PM EST
    You are banned from my threads because I will curse you out if I do not remove you.

    Sorry. Life's not fair.

    Parent

    Qualifications? (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 27, 2009 at 06:43:01 PM EST
    Better qualified?  She is more than qualified.  Obama is selecting a person who reflects 'his' views, not a progressive position.  Obama doesn't support gay marriage and he made awkward statements regarding abortion during the campaigns.

    Parent
    Sotomayor (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:13:01 PM EST
    She pound the table during her confirmation hearing and cry that it is a "high tech lynching".  Then watch the conservatives' heads explode as Thomas' words are turned against them.

    she seems to have (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:16:05 PM EST
    way to much class for that.  seriously.  yesterday I watched some coverage and it was pretty amazing.
    hearing people like Rove and Limpbaugh discuss her lack of intellectual weight was something.

    Parent
    Oh, I think so too (none / 0) (#5)
    by jbindc on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:20:03 PM EST
    But the irony would be delicious.

    Parent
    Hilarious, isn't it, Capt? (none / 0) (#82)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:36:07 PM EST
    I thought Limbaugh and Rove hated people with intellectual weight.  I thought, according to them, all that was bad in the world came from people with intellectual weight.

    They seem to be shooting themselves in their respective feet with this new line of reasoning.


    Parent

    funny (none / 0) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:38:10 PM EST
    but I dont remember laughing much yesterday.

    Parent
    I wonder very much (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:33:48 PM EST
    whether she'd be getting the same criticism if she were a Hispanic male.  A great deal of the yada-yada I'm hearing is along classic anti-woman lines-- unsuitable temperament, "schoolmarm" behavior to colleagues, and of course, that oldie but goodie, not intellectually rigorous.

    Can you imagine the suitability of a male Supreme Court nominee being questioned because of his temperament? (leaving aside John Bolton, who was so far over the line in his behavior he sounds like he badly needs a psychiatrist)

    What's the male equivalent of a "schoolmarm," just curiously...

    Parent

    That was my initial reaction ... (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:40:50 PM EST
    to Rosen's piece.  I saw it more as the traditional attack on women, than as a traditional attack on Hispanics.  The discussion of her "temperament" and describing her as "domineering."

    Parent
    What about Alberto Gonzales? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Fabian on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:19:25 PM EST
    A Latino, not a Latina.  Is that the difference?

    There's probably more than one -ism at work here.

    Bingo (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by jbindc on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:21:18 PM EST
    We've had too many strong women on the national scene in the past 18 months.  Gotta have the little women get back where they belong.

    Parent
    He is (none / 0) (#8)
    by maddog on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:27:57 PM EST
    a republican so he really isn't considered a minority.  He is just brain washed.

    Parent
    Sheesh (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:33:04 PM EST
    Why do I attract this crowd?

    Please up the quality.

    Parent

    Uh, (none / 0) (#19)
    by bocajeff on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:43:24 PM EST
    Her accomplishments haven't been wiped out just because she is a Latina. Actually, to the contrary. She's been built up by the White House as someone who has had to overcome lots of difficulty and has achieved beyond that of most people of any gender, ethnicity or religion.

    But, to be honest, one of the reasons (maybe the biggest, maybe the smallest) she was chosen is because she is a woman and she is a Latina. Just like Obama himself, or Sec. of State Clinton.

    I mean, yesterday, people here were upset that another Catholic had been named...

    And the big reason (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:47:10 PM EST
    the last 43 presidents were chose was because they were white and male.  Identity politics have ruled the country since 1776.   And guess what...the only identity that mattered was Caucasian and the only gender that mattered was male.  The one differentiating piece was money and privilege.  The more you had of both, the better your chances of achievement.

    And if you are ignorant enough to believe that a bozo like George W would have gotten elected to even dog catcher without his families money and pedigree, you don't pay much attention to history.

    It's about damn time gender mattered in a positive way for some things; that skin color mattered in a positive way for some things.

    But don't play games here. It's still a battle.  WHITE MALES still dominate the power and the money of the world.  
    So it's kind of silly how nervous and upset the right wing males are getting over this....boohoo skin color and gender are hurting the poor, underprivileged white males.....

    too bad, so sad, get over it.

    Parent

    do you not believe it's harder (none / 0) (#22)
    by of1000Kings on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:47:40 PM EST
    to achieve certain successes in this country if you are not rich and/or white?

    only a rich white person could believe that...

    Parent

    or someone (none / 0) (#31)
    by lilburro on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:54:54 PM EST
    who cannot understand simple math...

    Parent
    wow...those numbers (none / 0) (#61)
    by of1000Kings on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:21:29 PM EST
    are SERIOUSLY startling...

    the problem is obviously cyclical too...it's hard to come out of dirt poverty and have success...not impossible in this country (more possible than maybe any other country) but still extremely hard...

    just getting a degree is 10X harder (and maybe 100X, not sure exactly how to quantify that without giving it more thought than I'd like for the moment) for someone from poverty than it is for someone who comes from upper middle class+...

    Parent

    Is it your opinion the only reason (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:51:25 PM EST
    Barack Obama was nominated by the Democrats was because of his ethicity?

    Is it your opinion the only reason President Obama chose Hillary Clinton as his Secretary of State is due to her gender?

    Parent

    You really (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:51:27 PM EST
    do not believe that do you?

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:55:49 PM EST
    I don't think there's any question that it was "one of the reason," in a sense that it was in the mix somewhere.  The problem is that some people are all too quick to conclude that it was THE reason, as if Obama just grabbed the first Latina he could find on the street.  She's ridiculously well-qualified.

    In terms of the presentation of her life story by the White House, not only is it completely unremarkable in the context of a politicized confirmation process, but it's almost exactly like the way the previous administration rolled out Justice Alito's life story.

    Parent

    except Alito (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:01:51 PM EST
    didnt grow up in a south bronx housing project stepping over addicts and dealers.

    her story is remarkable.

    having said that I agree that her ethnicity and gender both played into her pick.  having said THAT, if she was Harriet Meyers it wouldnt matter.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:14:13 PM EST
    not from the projects, sure, but he seems to have had a pretty modest upbringing.  I don't get the sense that either of them had very much handed to them, other than being exposed to the right values as kids.

    Parent
    honestly (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:18:56 PM EST
    dont know if you ever saw the south bronx but it is really next level from "modest".  or maybe a couple of levels.

    to survive and become a normal taxpayer is pretty amazing but to do what she did is something else entirely.


    Parent

    I'll say it again (none / 0) (#59)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:20:27 PM EST
    YES ALITO DID NOT COME FROM THE PROJECTS.

    Parent
    btw (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:22:59 PM EST
    if he had I think its entirely possible his judicial opinions would be "better".

    Parent
    actually, it's not that bad (none / 0) (#111)
    by vicndabx on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:12:42 PM EST
    to survive and become a normal taxpayer is pretty amazing

    people do it all the time.  Granted, like most urban areas it has share of minuses, but it's not like we're talking about a third-world country.

    Parent

    that may be true today (none / 0) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:16:50 PM EST
    but the fact is in the 60s and 70s it was not far from a third world country.
    I was only there a couple of times, always for the same reason, to buy drugs.  they are times I will always remember.
    I cant honestly imagine growing up there.  and I had a pretty difficult childhood in some respects.

    Parent
    Well, I admit I wasn't there in the 60's (none / 0) (#120)
    by vicndabx on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:37:44 PM EST
    but since being born in 1971 I've lived in the Bronx my entire life (with friends & relatives all over the borough, including the S Bronx.) I know plenty of folks who'd disagree w/the third world sentiment.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#156)
    by CST on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:02:43 AM EST
    but have you been to the third world?

    To be honest, I think it's not necessarily as bad as you think it is (although it certainly depends on where you go).  I dunno, there is something about the absence of all wealth that makes poverty less desperate.  That was kinda my point about developing countries as well.  It's when you have a vast disparity between the "have's" and "have not's" that things get really bad.  When everyone is a "have not" it's almost an equalizer.

    Parent

    also btw (none / 0) (#160)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 28, 2009 at 02:42:48 PM EST
    the Bronx is a pretty big place. with haves and have nots.
    the south bronx where we used to buy drugs and where she grew up is a different world from some other locals in the same burrow.


    Parent
    yea (none / 0) (#161)
    by CST on Thu May 28, 2009 at 03:06:12 PM EST
    I got a little confusing with all my equivocating.  I would say the south bronx is closer to 2nd (developing) world conditions than third world.  That doesn't make it better though, and in some ways it makes it worse.

    However, as with all things, what it really is like is the South Bronx, and not like country X,Y, or Z.  But I think it's important to recognize that not everyone in this country lives in "first world" type of conditions.

    Parent

    actually it is (none / 0) (#114)
    by CST on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:25:28 PM EST
    kinda like a third world country.  I have been to the projects and I have been to a few third world countries.  They aren't as far apart as they should be.  Take someone from Western Europe through the projects and see their reaction.  It's pretty shocking.

    It all depends on what you consider third world.  A lot of the worst slums are in "developing" countries.

    Parent

    Oprah did a show about the poverty here (none / 0) (#119)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:37:14 PM EST
    it was pretty eye opening for many I'm sure.

    When I was watching the news stories yesterday and they showed where she grew up, it's very hard to see exactly what it's like to live there. Long shots of tall brick builds with lots of freshly spring has sprung trees kinda mask the reality. It's much different when you actually walk the streets.

    Parent

    see #120 (none / 0) (#121)
    by vicndabx on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:39:22 PM EST
    I still think it's different for people (none / 0) (#124)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:51:54 PM EST
    who see the images I saw yesterday and equate it with what a struggle someone could have trying to get to Princeton vs if they walked the 'hood and got a grasp of life there. I'm not saying it's third world, but it certainly has a different feel than the images shown. I guess what I'm saying is the images didn't do much for depicting life there or her story.

    If you looked at one 'hood I lived in, and from street level, you would also have a hard time judging how it was when I lived there 20yrs ago.

    Parent

    I was referring to this (none / 0) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:02:12 PM EST
    "Her accomplishments haven't been wiped out just because she is a Latina. Actually, to the contrary."

    Parent
    Apparently (none / 0) (#48)
    by Steve M on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:06:15 PM EST
    his argument is that because the White House still thinks her accomplishments are impressive, that is dispositive of how everyone else thinks about the issue.  Would that it were so.

    Parent
    I'm still wondering why Pres. Obama (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:17:24 PM EST
    chose to lead off with Judge Sotomayor's granting of the injunction against MLB re the baseball strike.  Tricky, IMO.

    Parent
    Uh, so? (none / 0) (#28)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:51:51 PM EST
    Choosing a Latina who is eminently qualified and obviously capable doesn't exclude the added benefit that her gender and ethnicity obviously bring to our party and our Democratic agenda. This is not an "affirmative action promotion" and the right wing will take a beating at the polls if they claim she was only selected because she's Latina. Nominating her was a brilliant move by Obama primarily because she's not substandard, or even mediocre.

    Parent
    Obama, a woman? (none / 0) (#29)
    by denise k on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:53:20 PM EST
    I think you missed some words, because as I read your comment, you are saying that Obama is a woman and a Latina?  And that Hillary is a Latina?  

    And for the record, I am not happy there is another Catholic on SCOTUS.

    Parent

    Don't worry, be happy! (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:28:36 PM EST
    Turns out she's not a practicing Catholic, so you can put your fears to rest about Ratzinger running the Court.

    (psst, btw, we once actually had a Catholic president, remember him?)

    Parent

    Ahh well, I am not suprised. (none / 0) (#23)
    by vicndabx on Wed May 27, 2009 at 02:49:52 PM EST
    Now that we have a black president, I suspect many are feeling as though we've turned the corner as a nation and we no longer need to be "so sensitive."  Folks are so comfortable w/their positions and the things they can take for granted as a result they can't even begin to see their own obtuseness.

    Oy (none / 0) (#65)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:22:58 PM EST


    I don't recall any other case in which (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:23:58 PM EST
    a Court of Appeals Judge was excoriated for a per curiam opinion.  

    You are wise not to trust yourself. (none / 0) (#70)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:26:21 PM EST
    Your intense preference for an accomplished Nuyorican lady of the law is understandable, but this intensity too readily leads you out of balance and into error.

    One more thought (none / 0) (#89)
    by zaladonis on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:38:56 PM EST
    If Obama had chosen an out lesbian, that would be discussed as well.

    And I think it should be.

    Let's not be afraid of talking about this stuff when Republicans raise it.  If it pisses us off it only shows we're defensive, and why be defensive if there's nothing wrong with it?

    I thought we dealt with this in the 80s with a pretty smart t-shirt:  "We're here, we're queer, get used to it."  Doesn't that work for Hispanic as well?

    You thought that was effective? (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:50:41 PM EST
    How are those equal rights coming along almost 3 decades later?

    Parent
    I don't follow. Why is is wrong to be pissed (none / 0) (#92)
    by tigercourse on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:42:18 PM EST
    off at racism or some other form of prejudice?

    Parent
    It's right to be pissed off at racism (1.00 / 1) (#100)
    by zaladonis on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:49:33 PM EST
    but make sure it's racism, and not a chip on your own shoulder.

    We all carry around our own damage, and not everything a gay perceives as homophobia is homophobia, just as not everything a Hispanic or African American perceives as racism is racist.

    Parent

    A chip on my own shoulder? (none / 0) (#104)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 27, 2009 at 03:52:28 PM EST
    I am sorry. I can not have you in my threads. I will curse you out and then where will we be.

    Unfairly, I am banning you from my threads.

    Comment in Jeralyn, TChris. Ethans and in Open Threads.

    Remove yourself from mine.

    Parent

    Here's a tip (none / 0) (#122)
    by dws3665 on Wed May 27, 2009 at 04:45:31 PM EST
    You are not the arbiter of what is or is not racism and homophobia.

    Have a nice day.

    Parent

    Can I share your rage (none / 0) (#125)
    by dk on Wed May 27, 2009 at 05:01:08 PM EST
    at the racist and sexist treatment that Sotomayor is getting, while also disagreeing with your assessment of MY as level-headed?

    I mean, I know the primary is over, but let's not forget the partially sexist-driven irrationality coming from him just a year ago.  

    Did you see the PBS special (none / 0) (#129)
    by ricosuave on Wed May 27, 2009 at 06:58:46 PM EST
    a month or two ago about the first hispanics to argue before the US Supreme court?  It was a murder trial from down in the Valley (that's the Rio Grande valley of Texas, for you yankees that don't know your geography).  The defense argued that the trial was unfair because hispanics were not allowed on the jury.

    It is a great show, the highlight of which is one of the justices (Frankfurter?) asking the lawyers if the Mexican-Americans were known as "greasers."

    We've come a long way in the 50 years or so since then, but apparently not far enough.

    For those of us born in CA (none / 0) (#132)
    by nycstray on Wed May 27, 2009 at 07:30:07 PM EST
    the Valley refers to the Central Valley or if you live in LA, that other Valley where the girls come from  ;)

    Parent
    stop playing the race card already (none / 0) (#163)
    by diogenes on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:54:14 PM EST
    There are a hundred Ivy League grads/ appeals court judges out there.  Grade inflation is rampant in the nonsciences in the Ivys.  Italians (with no access to affirmative action) often went to the City University of New York.  If she's so good, then she surely has a trail of scholarship in her opinions that would be recognized no matter who wrote them.  Her perfunctory treatment of the Connecticut firefighter case, with no detail to support her opinion, is not a good sign.
    Who is the best available judge?  If you have no basis to say who that is, how can anyone assume that Sotomayer is and that opposition to her is thus racist or sexist?