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Late Night Open Thread: Who Died on Grey's Anatomy?

Anyone see the 2 hour season finale to Grey's Anatomy? Did Izzie and George both die, just one, or neither? Talk about keeping your options open.

One theory: Since Izzie didn't step off the elevator to meet George, he's dead, she returns.

I would have preferred a firm resolution, but I'll take what they gave us because it was the best episode of the season -- especially Derek and Meredith finally getting married by hand-writing vows on a post-it note. (Thus the theme, despite all the sadness, there's a little bit of joy.)

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    60 won't be eneough (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jbindc on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:41:32 PM EST
    Democrats are alreadywarning their supporters that they won't be able to accomplish everything they want to do this year - even if Al Franken is seated (even with a filibuster-proof 60 votes).

    nd with contentious fights over health care, climate change and Obama's first Supreme Court pick ahead, some Democratic senators are now convinced that they can't wade into some of the hot-button social issues their supporters would like them to pursue.

    "They should not take anything for granted," said Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), who as majority whip has the job of counting votes. "People keep saying, `Wow, if you get Sen. Franken up in Minnesota, everything is going to be fine -- you'll be at 60.' I've never said that, I know, because I face these senators every day, and I know that each of them has their own mind."

    The excuses have officially begun.

    We need to tell our Dems excuses won't cut it this (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jawbone on Fri May 15, 2009 at 01:11:31 PM EST
    time around.

    They do what we want, or we'll do whatever we can to primary them out.

    If the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party doesn't get control, if the Formerly Known as Democratic Party (FKD Party [thanks, lambert @ Corrente!]) wins out, we're gone.

    So we better be looking for alternatives. Or creating them.

    This nation has looked at universal healthcare since Teddy Roosevelt. FDR wanted to do it, Truman wanted to do it, LBJ wanted to do it, Clinton wanted to do it--always defeated by the corporatists and their enablers. Gotta stop.

    So, this "little single payer advocate"* is not cutting Dems any slack on this. They said when we have a Dem Congress and Dem prez--well, it's here.

    Just Do It.

    Lambert posts about Obama's reference in "Obama, Got the little single payer advocates here"

    VastLeft posts about it in "I've got goosebumps! Obama mentioned *me!"

    (I have no idea why the titles are bolded.)

    Parent

    While you were watching "Grey's (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Thu May 14, 2009 at 11:40:15 PM EST
    Anatomy," I was watching TIVO of last Sunday's Masterpiece Mystery, Wallerand, with Kenneth Branaugh.  Must purchase larger screen TV w/HD.  Really fine cinematography and acting.  

    I liked it very much too, (none / 0) (#7)
    by DFLer on Fri May 15, 2009 at 06:55:29 AM EST
    though it was a little hard getting around all those British accents in Sweden, ya sure by golly.

    Parent
    I could have used closed caption on (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:23:59 PM EST
    this one.

    Parent
    David Warner was great (none / 0) (#34)
    by DFLer on Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:39:50 PM EST
    both the actor and the character he played. Wow...how very human.

    re captions Yes...Mr Braugnagh (sp.?) did mumble a lot.

    Parent

    The faces of Mr. Warner and (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri May 15, 2009 at 05:47:25 PM EST
    the guy who hung out on the beach in front of the home of one of the victims:  fascinomas.

    Parent
    I tivo'd it too (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:18:03 AM EST
    and am really looking forward to watching it.

    I've been in withdrawal since finishing my 'Inspector Morse' marathon - watched all 34 episodes via Netflix in the last 8 months or so! Hoping 'Wallerand' will fil the void for a few weeks until 'Inspector Lewis' starts up again!

    Parent

    Aha (none / 0) (#2)
    by Steve M on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:15:52 AM EST
    So that's the show my wife was hoping to watch tonight!  For once, sports was conceded to be more important.

    Who died on CSI NY, if anyone? (none / 0) (#3)
    by nycstray on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:57:00 AM EST
    Nuttin' like a drive by in the last few seconds :)

    Dayum, I forgot to watch (none / 0) (#4)
    by otherlisa on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:30:54 AM EST
    and I don't have TiVo. Oh well. Someone fill me in!

    Go to ABC.com and watch the episode for free (none / 0) (#5)
    by Slado on Fri May 15, 2009 at 06:03:15 AM EST
    FYI

    Parent
    I literally woke up this morning wondering... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Slado on Fri May 15, 2009 at 06:06:00 AM EST
    who will come back.

    I think if anyone comes back it will be Izzie.

    George is disfigured for good and so messed up (arm, hip, brain, face etc...) that it will be hard to have him running around as the same old George after this accident.

    Now having said that it is TV and well, you know.

    George has had very little to do lately on the show so I wouldn't be suprised if he's gone now that he's had a romance with everyone except Christina.   I wouldn't be suprised if next season opens with them both in a coma or hanging on and then we have to watch as everyone says goodbye etc...

    I had read that (none / 0) (#8)
    by Anne on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:02:44 AM EST
    T. R. Knight wanted out of the show and is not returning; he was not at all happy with his storyline or face time last season.

    Katherine Heigl has been rumored to be leaving, because of her public comments about not wanting her name put in for Emmy consideration last season, but the latest rumor is that she'll be back.

    I think Knight is gone for good; don't know how Heigl could not be back for what could be another season of excellent storylines.

    It was a good double-episode; if I have any complaints about the show, it is that it always gets to the brink of taking a relationship to a successful next level, and then...death or mental breakdown or disappearance.

    Apparently, happiness is not good for ratings.

    Parent

    After Season 2 (none / 0) (#9)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri May 15, 2009 at 09:12:50 AM EST
    Apparently, happiness is not good for ratings.

    The drama got too much. Izzy had a series of storylines that had her constantly in a frantic state of being, and/or sobbing. Many of these born out of a need for her to get too close and personal with her patients.

    I think the writers have exhausted both of their stories. My eyes roll with most of Izzy's lines.

    Read several months ago that she was trying to negotiate herself back into the show. My hope is they just let her go.

    Parent

    I read Knight (none / 0) (#11)
    by Lil on Fri May 15, 2009 at 09:58:13 AM EST
    is definitely gone. Heigl was supposed to be gone too, but was "open" to staying. I thought the episode was all over the place. wasn't my favorite. I would rather have seen George leave for the army than get run over by a bus. Too many characters get killed when they ax them from shows. NYPD, which I was a huge fan of did this all the time. I mean everybody that Sipowitz loved eventually died.

    Parent
    I guess even after Arizona's (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:14:46 AM EST
    speech about George being a hero by joining the Army, they had to make him a double hero by throwing himself in front of a bus. Lots of ways to be heroic, I suppose is the point.

    Parent
    So was I the only one (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:12:38 AM EST
    who didn't catch on that the John Doe was George until Mere discovered it? Now I have to watch it again to see all the stuff they said about George when the poor guy was laying right there.

    T.R. Knight is definitely not returning, so I'd say George is a goner.  I wouldn't mind seeing Izzie back next season if they write better story lines for her.


    Parent

    I recorded the show (none / 0) (#10)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 15, 2009 at 09:29:49 AM EST
    on my Windows Media Center DVR and will save it until next season starts.

    After the uber-dark-uber-disturbing Private Practice season finale (crossed the line, I think), I decided I didn't trust Shonda Rhimes to write a season finale.

    Guess I'll post this later (none / 0) (#15)
    by NJDem on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:48:36 AM EST
    if there's another open thread:

    "President of the American Hospital Association says the White House misstated deal"

    I missed the first half of Grey's so I was a little lost.  I guess that's why I didn't understand that 007 meant it was George.  I did like the Karev storyline with helping Izzy and her memory--but I didn't approve of them dismissing the DNR.  Isn't that flat-out illegal?  (yes, I know it's a tv show).  


    Hmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jbindc on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:18:22 AM EST
    I see another WORM in the future....

    Parent
    Yup--only this time Big Health Industry Playahs (none / 0) (#17)
    by jawbone on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:16:13 PM EST
    (BHIP, umbrella organization including AHIP) is telling its members it didn't say everything Obama says it said....

    The NYTimes article is full of WORM after WORM, which have begotten WBHIPRMs (what BHIP really meant).

    ...Mr. Obama hailed their cost-cutting promise as historic.

    "These groups are voluntarily coming together to make an unprecedented commitment," Mr. Obama said. "Over the next 10 years, from 2010 to 2019, they are pledging to cut the rate of growth of national health care spending by 1.5 percentage points each year -- an amount that's equal to over $2 trillion."

    Health care leaders who attended the meeting have a different interpretation. They say they agreed to slow health spending in a more gradual way and did not pledge specific year-by-year cuts.

    "There's been a lot of misunderstanding that has caused a lot of consternation among our members," said Richard J. Umbdenstock, the president of the American Hospital Association. "I've spent the better part of the last three days trying to deal with it."  (My emphasis)

    "Consternation among" BHIP's members, like being told they would cut their earnings voluntarily? Like that'll happen?

    And then, DeParle gets in on the WORMing:

    Nancy-Ann DeParle, director of the White House Office of Health Reform, said "the president misspoke" on Monday and again on Wednesday when he described the industry's commitment in similar terms. After providing that account, Ms. DeParle called back about an hour later on Thursday and said: "I don't think the president misspoke. His remarks correctly and accurately described the industry's commitment."

    From a BHIPer's mouth:

    The Washington office of the American Hospital Association sent a bulletin to its state and local affiliates to "clarify several points" about the White House meeting.

    In the bulletin, Richard J. Pollack, the executive vice president of the hospital association, said: "The A.H.A. did not commit to support the `Obama health plan' or budget. No such reform plan exists at this time."

    Moreover, Mr. Pollack wrote, "The groups did not support reducing the rate of health spending by 1.5 percentage points annually."

    He and other health care executives said they had agreed to squeeze health spending so the annual rate of growth would eventually be 1.5 percentage points lower.

    How will Obama handle this? How did he get it so different from what BHIP now states it told him? Who was told? Who told Obama?

    Let the games begin!

    Parent

    H/T to caseyOR @ Corrente n/t (none / 0) (#25)
    by jawbone on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:58:13 PM EST
    Worth a chuckle (none / 0) (#33)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:32:56 PM EST
    Yes, ignoring a DNR is seriously wrong, but where else but Seattle Grace would you see a patient wearing a fashionable silk scarf instead of bandages post-brain surgery, too?


    Parent
    What do we want?.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:33:58 PM EST
    According to this White House poll...its legal reefer and legal internet poker.

    I've never been so proud of my fellow citizens...our priorities are finally in order:)

    Ah kdog (none / 0) (#20)
    by jbindc on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:38:35 PM EST
    That internet poll was taken by college kids and people who have all day to spend on the computer.  I'm just surprised it didn't include free pron as well.  ;)

    Parent
    Let me be proud.... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:40:56 PM EST
    of my country for five minutes, will ya jb?  For once of my life there is a poll that makes me look mainstream:)

    Parent
    Ok (none / 0) (#23)
    by jbindc on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:42:37 PM EST
    clock is ticking.  Then back to reality for you!  :)

    Parent
    RIP Wayman Tisdale (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:35:24 PM EST
    Great player. (none / 0) (#24)
    by easilydistracted on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:44:22 PM EST
    Just 44 years old. Wow.

    Parent
    has me bummed out today (none / 0) (#29)
    by Dadler on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:09:42 PM EST
    funny what gets to you in the midst of much more madness.  i was just SO into college hoops when he was a collegiate hall of famer.  take it to the hole, jam with robert johnson, shake the afterlife.

    Parent
    On a lighter note... (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Fri May 15, 2009 at 01:21:34 PM EST
    I support our military men and women in green, uh, pink

    (the funny part is that they say "I heart NY")!

    Doesn't everyone heart NY? ;) (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by nycstray on Fri May 15, 2009 at 01:34:13 PM EST
    Obama body language says NO to public health plan (none / 0) (#30)
    by jawbone on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:18:05 PM EST
    per Jeanne Cummings on today's Diane Rehm Show, first hour.

    His body language indicates strongly that he has no passion for the so-called "public option." He campaigned on it, promised it--but is now going to be the Good Centrist and go all "pragmatic" and will not put political capital into getting it into law.

    Oh, and no administration people show any enthusiasm for the public option in their body language, per Cummings.

    There are things Obama cares about, and his body language reflects that. With the public option, it's not there. He's just not into that. No one mentioned the patronizing, condescending dig to "little single payer advocates" at his NM appearance. But both actual words and body language are in synch on this subject.

    Looking back, it's not just the words, the labeling of supporters, such as "little single payer advocates" and "liberal bleeding hearts," but, yes, his body language. Just compare Obama talking about the glorious future of digitized medical records with how he looks talking about any actual coverage for health care. My mental image is of two very different enegy levels. He really is engaged in talking about those medical records. Wow!

    Add his having to be pushed and pushed during the Dem primary to come out strongly for a public plan, well...says it all.

    Woman caller to program said that if the Dems don't do public option that is genuine the public will go batsh*t crazy angry mad. Now Cummings is saying that she didn't indicate Obama wouldn't do something about public option; he just won't lead and fight for it. There's a great deal of oppostion to a public plan, and Obama would gladly sign a bill without it, would not fight for it. Then, if people got angry enough, he might try to get the public option -- later.

    So, she said, if people want public option now is the time to make calls.

    McManus says Obama has said Big Insurers have already promised to offer insurance to those currently turned down. No mention of cost, so maybe people won't be able to afford this new largesse from the private insurance companies.

    The Serious MCMers on the show, Chris Cillizza, Doyle McManus, and Cummings appearing on the Diane Rehm Show today, first hour, all agreed that Obama' does spectacular flip-flops, but it's all good Pragmatism. It's all good. May PO his liberal base, but, hey, he's a Good Centrist.

    For them it's not 11-dimension chess; it's just good politics. The successful pol does, says what he needs to get into power; when in power, do what he wants. Kinda like BushCo.

    (McManus is also sure the taxpayers will make a profit on the trillions going to Big Bankster Boiz and other bailout recipients. Okaaaay. Or maybe it was just TARP? Any Correntians have access to Lexus-Nexus to get these high cost transcripts?)


    Have you made your calls today? DC offices closing (none / 0) (#31)
    by jawbone on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:19:35 PM EST
    soon. Local offices open longer, per time zone.

    Just call. Just do it.

    Please.

    Parent

    Wasn't this always obvious? (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:49:07 PM EST
    he has no passion for the so-called "public option."


    Parent
    This is going to get buried here, but (none / 0) (#36)
    by Anne on Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:59:32 PM EST
    I could not believe my eyes when I saw this at Think Progress (my bold):

    President Barack Obama has nominated a lawyer for the nation's largest toxic polluters to run the enforcement of the nation's environmental laws. On Tuesday, Obama "announced his intent to nominate" Ignacia S. Moreno to be Assistant Attorney General for the Environment and Natural Resources Division in the Department of Justice. Moreno, general counsel for that department during the Clinton administration, is now the corporate environmental counsel for General Electric, "America's #1 Superfund Polluter":

    Number five in the Fortune 500 with revenues of $89.3 billion and earnings of $8.2 billion in 1997, General Electric has been a leader in the effort to roll back the Superfund law and stave off any requirements for full cleanup and restoration of sites they helped create.

    This February, General Electric lost an eight-year battle to "prove that parts of the Superfund law are unconstitutional." One of the 600-person DOJ environmental division's "primary responsibilities is to enforce federal civil and criminal environmental laws such as" the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act, and the Superfund.

    Before General Electric, Moreno worked as a corporate attorney at Spriggs and Hollingsworth. Moreno's name is found in the Westlaw database as an attorney defending General Motors in another Superfund case, the GM Powertrain facility in Bedford, Indiana:

    Historical uses and management of PCB containing hydraulic oils and PCB impacted materials has contaminated on-site areas as well as the sediment and floodplain soil within Bailey's Branch and the Pleasant Run Creek watershed.

    Although General Motors entered into an agreement in 2001 with the EPA to clean up the site, a number of local residents whose land has been contaminated by polychorinated biphenyls (PCBs) have sued for damages in Allgood v. GM (now Barlow v. GM), in a contentious and caustic dispute over cleanup, monitoring, and lost property values.

    During the Clinton administration, Moreno was involved in another controversial case, unsuccessfully defending the Secretary of Commerce's decision to weaken the dolphin-safe tuna standard. In Brower v. Daley, Earth Island Institute, The Humane Society of the United States, and other individuals and organizations brought suit against the United States government for actions that were "arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, and contrary to law," winning their case in 2000.

    Seems the change Obama campaigned on can be found in the word interchangeable.

    Thnx, Anne-I just came over to ask the legal types (none / 0) (#38)
    by jawbone on Fri May 15, 2009 at 06:28:26 PM EST
    to weigh in on this.

    It's another "OMG! How can he do this?" kind of thing. He seems to be working overtime on burning bridges to the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, to the left part of his base. He probably never saw any bridges to us types.

    This is a BushCo type nomination. OMG!

    I thought he was sincere about the environment at least. But I should have been more skeptical, since I did know how he handled the radiation leaks into Illinois groundwaters: He bent to the needs and desires of Big Business. That one I did know about.

    I didn't know about this aspect of his work with lobbyists and Big Health Industry Playahs (BHIP) in Illinois.

    Past is prologue....

    Parent

    I'd love to hear what Gore's opinion of this is (none / 0) (#39)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri May 15, 2009 at 06:37:59 PM EST
    since he took the time to endorse Obama.

    Parent
    I'm betting Al won't say a word, (none / 0) (#40)
    by Anne on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:11:12 PM EST
    but the telltale redness and bruising on his forehead will tell us that he's had more than a few moments where his head has made contact with his desk.

    Might see those signs on more than a few people who got on the Obama train.

    Parent