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Saving The "Non-Banks?"

In response to my post on bank holding companies, regulatory receivership and the Geithner Plan, Geekesque cites Justin Fox on why CitiGROUP can't be taken over. I think Geek misunderstands that I do not want CitiGroup taken over, I want CitiBANK taken over. However, he believes CitiBANK is not insolvent. The question is why isn't CitiBANK lending? Do they need more liquidity? That seems implausible in light of the fact that the Fed has printed so much money and has lowered interest rates to banks to virtually zero. Geek argues that in order to solve the financial crisis, the "non-banks" must be saved:

Let's step back and take Bank of America as an example. A great deal of its toxic garbage is concentrated not in its retail and consumer banking divisions, but in its investment banking and securities trading divisions, especially after the acquisition of Merrill Lynch. In other words, its chartered depository bank is doing just fine and is no danger of missing capitalization requirements. However, its other divisions are struggling under the weight of the toxic assets and could fail. But, no one can touch those.

I doubt it is true that Citi's BANKS are walled off from these toxic assets. Citigroup's financial reporting is Consolidated (PDF), but it did report the following:

During 2008, Citibank, N.A. received contributions from its parent company of $6.1 billion. Citibank, N.A. did not issue any additional subordinated notes in 2008. Total subordinated notes issued to Citicorp Holdings Inc. that were outstanding at December 31, 2008 and December 31, 2007 and included in Citibank, N.A.’s Tier 2 Capital, amounted to $28.2 billion. Citibank, N.A. received an additional $14.3 billion in capital contribution from its parent company in January 2009.

(Emphasis supplied.) If CitiGROUP funneled $20.4 billion dollars to CitiBANK, N.A. in 2008 and 2009, it seems clear to me that CitiBANK, N.A. is holding at least some of the toxic assets in question. But what if Geek is right and CitiBANK is ok. His solution would appear to be to bailout the "NON-BANKS." He does not explain why this would be necessary other than saying that the problem is there - that is what has caused the financial crisis. I do not see that identifying the "NON-BANKS" as the cause of the crisis is an argument for why they should be saved. Indeed, it seems an argument for letting them die.

The important question is not how to save what caused the disaster - it is how to fix the disaster. In that sense Martin Feldstein's Wall Street Journal column is instructive. Feldstein supports the Geithner Plan but thinks it is a trillion and a half dollars short on the free handout to the Masters of the Universe. I kid you not:

The Treasury's new Public-Private Investment Plan should be regarded as a pilot study to see if this approach can remove impaired assets from the nation's banks. If it works, Treasury will have to go back to Congress for substantially more funding to remove enough impaired assets to get the banks lending again.

(Emphasis supplied.) You see how great the Geithner Plan is? IF IT WORKS, it will then require trillions or more dollars of taxpayer money being handed out to the Masters of the Universe. and yet, consider what Feldstein says the problem is:

Increased bank lending is the key to a sustained recovery. Households and businesses that cannot obtain credit are now unable to spend and to invest, dragging down total demand and GDP. The banks are unwilling to lend because they lack confidence in the value of the loans and other assets they already carry on their books, and therefore lack confidence in whether they have enough capital to avoid insolvency. Removing these high-risk assets is a prerequisite to get the lending mechanism in gear again.

But regulatory receivership accomplishes this with transparency and efficiency. Why is that not the better course? Feldstein does not tell us. He merely applauds the fact that "nationalization" is avoided.

To me, that is not a compelling argument. Indeed, if anything, we need transparency and regulatory receivership will be the only way to get it. Why do we need transparency? Because the public and the Congress will not hand over the money Feldstein says we need without it.

At this point, whether Obama, Geithner, Summers Feldstein or Geekesque like it, regulatory receiverships, voluntary or involuntary, based on existing law or under future law, will be required. To me, it is that simple. The crisis demands it be now, not later.

Speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    If Geek is right, what he's saying (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 10:49:35 AM EST
    is that the conglomerates are holding their bank subsidiaries hostage and keeping them from lending until their other businesses are bailed out. I think you make a convincing argument that that's not what's happening, but if it were, I think that would make the Geithner plan even more outrageous.

    This is also what I don't understand (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:07:04 AM EST
    about those who argue that we must not save the banks.......which would immediately put them in a position to service customers instead trying to service the black hole that the holding companies created.  If we save the banks we save the people.....if we attempt to save the "structures" that these greed freaks created we preserve being a greed freak and in turn also begin laying waste to everyone.  And when the futility of it all is finally faced we will then still have to save the people that we could have decided to save in the first place and saved ourselves years and years of slogging through the impossible feeding it our resources.  Can't we just start out by saving the people?  Can't we just let the corruption die?  No matter how we go about this we are still starting out from a barren landscape.

    Parent
    Just turn the banks.... (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:00:51 PM EST
    .... into regulated public utilities. Handle what normal people need, like mortgages, college aid, home improvement, that way.

    Get back back to -- if I have this right -- borrow at 3, lend at 4, on the golf course by 5.

    If the gamblers want a sh*tload of money to bet on the ponies, it shouldn't be our houses and retirement money they do it with.

    Parent

    You sound you even like these (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:18:26 PM EST
    guys when they aren't robbing us all blind.

    Parent
    I don't understand (none / 0) (#35)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:24:07 PM EST
    Not sure I understand this. Banking is, so far as I can tell, socially useful. And it should be about as testesterone and risk fuelled as working at the gas company. That's what I'm saying. (We should also break all the big ones up, too. Make 'em local, just like the gas company.)

    Parent
    Oops, unlabeled snark (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:43:24 PM EST
    Just noticing that you don't mind if these guys have a life.  You would even be okay with them having one after we have to deal with all the destruction they've brought home to all of us.  You are weird, sort of solution oriented.

    Parent
    Oops, worse than unlabeled snark (none / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:48:11 PM EST
    didn't even make poorly typed sense

    Parent
    And by "have a life" you mean... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:34:32 PM EST
    ... "go on living"?

    I believe in The 198-Fold Way.

    20th Century outcomes from movements where putting heads on pikes was taken literally have not turned out well.

    Parent

    Yes! (none / 0) (#40)
    by ChiTownDenny on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:43:55 PM EST
    These congomerates need to be broken up; Glass Steagall!  However, IMO, let's get to the other side of the river and THEN change horses.

    Parent
    Remember the "it's my nature" story? (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:10:49 PM EST
    We might not even GET to the other side of the river.

    Parent
    It's 3-6-3, Lambert (none / 0) (#47)
    by caseyOR on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:42:52 PM EST
    Borrow at 3; lend at 6; on the golf course by 3.

     A steady, dependable model. Not exciting, but I could use a little less excitement in the banking world.

    Parent

    It was that way (none / 0) (#53)
    by cal1942 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:02:17 PM EST
    for several decades and we didn't have any problems.

    Parent
    Elizabeth Warren throws down (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by caseyOR on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 04:00:08 PM EST
    with Geithner on the banksters. Warren, who chairs the TARP oversight committee, is set to release a report calling for major management changes at the big financial institutions.

    Warren isn't buying what Timmy and Ben and the other boys are selling.

    Parent

    My first successful link (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by caseyOR on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 04:02:36 PM EST
    The above comment marks the first time I have succeeded in posting a link at TL. Thanks you, squeaky. i read your directions to another commenter and managed not to screw it up.

    Parent
    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by vigkat on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 09:59:28 PM EST
    Glad To Help (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 10:01:17 PM EST
    Took me awhile to figure it out myself.  

    Parent
    If we let the banks "fail," (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:08:51 AM EST
    they get nationalized  by the FDIC.

    Parent
    When will we let the banks fail? (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:19:51 AM EST
    Toxic assets don't have to be valued on their books mark-to-market.  When do we intend to allow any of them to fail so that the FDIC can return soundness?

    Parent
    Fraud is at the heart of it all (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:54:07 AM EST
    Black's essential point -- which oddly, or not, Geekesque obfuscates -- is that the Big Sh*tpile is based on fraud. (That's why Jamie Galbraith* demands to be shown the loan tapes.

    I keep asking whether derivatives based on fraudulent assets (if that's the right wording) have to be honored. Because if they don't, a lot of the toxic assets disappear into thin air (where they were to begin with). IIRC, the derivatives were based on standard contracts, so it should be possible to get a reading on this issue -- though gawd knows how they modified them, or what side letters were involved.

    NOTE Disclosure: Galbraith's son worked on the campaign of She Who Must Not Be Named. Snicker.

    Parent

    Another thing that just tickles me (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:00:01 PM EST
    whenever I'm reading these B.S. diaries about how everything is okay and some "expert" saying things that make Obama look bad is a "has been" a-hole.......the minute someone demands the evidence be shown or wants to know why it isn't being shown - the excuses are pathetic.  Very creative though.  They don't call us the creative class for nuthin.

    Parent
    G-man is the utter worst of the bunch. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Salo on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:07:35 PM EST
    No really.  He's the worst.

    Parent
    Did you see (none / 0) (#32)
    by standingup on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:04:52 PM EST
    Krugman's post "The banks" versus "some banks" from last week?  I think he gets to the heart of what you are stating here.

    Parent
    And combined with the Bernanke plan (none / 0) (#2)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 10:58:39 AM EST
    for inflation, it all looks even worse.  As the link on the Fed says, it's not wise.  The Fed is printing money like mad for the banks that are tightfisted with it, while consumer prices soar.  This is not the way to get the middle class back to work (and perhaps not back to the polls).

    Parent
    Fiscal stimulus (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:01:11 AM EST
    It's pretty obvious that that is what we need now.

    Parent
    In other words... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Dadler on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:54:13 PM EST
    ...we need extreme generoisty, extreme responsibility, and we need to create jobs, yes, just for the sake of creating them, just as we all breathe for the sake of breathing.  If we don't breathe, we die.  If our citizens do not have employment that allows them to be productive and contributive and secure in their freedom, another kind of death awaits -- the collective kind.  

    Parent
    I think you're wrong about that (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:02:50 AM EST
    Under the circumstances, I am happy that the Fed is printing money, and, we had better pray for inflation. Deflation, the likely alternative, would be devastating.  

    Parent
    I do not disagree (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:10:21 AM EST
    I think the main reason inflation is not a threat is because monetary policy is not spurring economic recovery.

    Fiscal stimulus is necessary. I think if indeed we did have a robust economic recovery, inflation would be an issue - but we are still a long ways from that.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:12:27 AM EST
    We have tools to deal with inflation later.

    Parent
    What are you referring to? (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:22:46 AM EST
    What tools? In the past, inflation was handled simply by watching the gap between the middle class and the poor widen.

    There are numerous job titles that remain at the same income dollars today that they were earning 15 years ago. They dealt with inflation by lowering their standard of living.


    Parent

    What tools? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:26:27 AM EST
    Come now, let's keep this debate on an higher plane please.

    Monetary policy can stop inflation. It is precisely what Volcker did in the late 70s and early 80s.

    Parent

    Curbing inflation is painful (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:26:21 AM EST
    Dealing with deflation is worse. Remember the "cross of gold?"

    Parent
    What the rest of the world thinks (none / 0) (#8)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:11:57 AM EST
    of the Fed's actions in recent years, not reversed by Obama and Bernanke, ought to worry us. From Der Spiegel:

    The president [Bush] and the head of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, knew . . . knew just how irresponsible their actions were -- at any rate, they did everything they could to hide them from the world. Since 2006, figures for the money supply -- in other words, the total number of dollars in circulation -- have no longer been published in the US. As a result, a statistic which is regarded by the European Central Bank as a key indicator is now treated as a state secret in the US.  Only on the basis of independent estimates can the outside world get a sense of the internal erosion of what was once the strongest currency in the world. These estimates report a steep rise in the amount of money in circulation. Since the decision to keep the figures confidential, the growth rate for the expansion of the money supply has tripled. Last year alone, the money supply increased by 17 percent. As a comparison, the money in circulation in Europe grew by a mere 5 percent during the same period.

    Do you happily know how much money the Fed is printing?

    Parent

    The Germans can't get past 1923 (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:13:01 AM EST
    That's not our problem.

    Parent
    Rephrase: (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:13:40 AM EST
    It is a problem, because they refuse to participate in stimulating the world economy.

    Parent
    If we became transparent (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    If we demanded actual solvency from our financial institutions or took them over and restructured them, I wonder if the Germans would play ball  then?  Because the crap we are doing right now, I wouldn't let the Americans use any of my balls through any sort of financial osmosis either right now.  The Americans are freaks all as calm as Hindu cows while crashing the plane that they are flying and all are onboard :)

    Parent
    But treating money supply numbers.... (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:56:22 AM EST
    ... as a "state secret"? That's bizarre!

    Regardless of the German's experience in 1923, is the 2009 story right on the facts?

    Parent

    Thank you; that's the concern (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:03:26 PM EST
    overlooked here.  Understandable Bush/Greenspan policy, but wasn't this administration going to be transparent?  

    Parent
    Bizarre? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:01:10 PM EST
    Or just Liars?

    Parent
    Perhaps of interest is that (none / 0) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:45:22 AM EST
    this is written from this country, by the D.C. correspondent to Der Speigel.

    Parent
    Well, I think Obama is correct (none / 0) (#41)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:11:48 PM EST
    that this is going to require international cooperation.  And it looks like we're being rather uncooperative, if other countries don't have the data any more from us to figure out just what our dollar is worth.  That's how I read it, but whaddaIknow, let's just treat it all as state secrets and let others guess if our money is good.

    Parent
    I don't see any way we can avoid (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:14:30 AM EST
    the deflation that will start to hit us in about six months if not sooner.  No matter what we do from here on out it's going to happen.  We have lost too many jobs for it not to and job loss hasn't shown slowing at all.  If consumer spending isn't driving inflation.......in a situation like this having inflation starting to hit us like this at this rate is an indicator to me that we are following right down the road of the depression.

    Parent
    You can read Bernake's plan (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:16:58 AM EST
    andgarden, this is a plan from 2002 (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:23:40 AM EST
    Please understand that in the perfect storm of job loss and insolvency that has been created that this "model" will not function. The model wasn't even designed to be able to handle what has been done to the financial system.  This model never even took into consideration that what has been done to our economy could have been done.

    Parent
    Did you read it? (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:27:33 AM EST
    [S]uppose that, despite all precautions, deflation were to take hold in the U.S. economy and, moreover, that the Fed's policy instrument--the federal funds rate--were to fall to zero. What then?
    It would help if he got more fiscal tools from Congress, but he thinks there's lots he can do on his own.

    Parent
    Quantitative easing (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:32:01 AM EST
    I doubt it will do much.

    The tools need to be fiscal now.

    Parent

    HIs discussion of Japan (none / 0) (#21)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:35:42 AM EST
    is unsatisfying. But he does say that fiscal policies are best implemented at the same time.

    Parent
    I'm very familiar with how (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:41:58 AM EST
    we can control inflation and deflation when we are playing on a field that contains elements of soundness.  That isn't what we have though. I can hope that I'm a doomsdayer.  But I have to also keep in mind that I knew that the TARP wasn't going to unfreeze the credit markets based on the unsound elements interacting within our economy, and I was called all sorts of doomsday things then too.  I can find you "expert" writings on all sorts of "elements" of the economy to base what I desire to happen on, but the economy is an organism made up of interacting elements.  Hey if I'm wrong on deflation I won't get shafted on my house or end up fighting with the bank for a write down.  Don't think that wouldn't be terrific to not have to deal with.  I'm a realist though and I'm just as certain that deflation is coming for us as I was that the TARP could not, would not, was never capable of fixing the credit freeze.

    Parent
    The final absurdity (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:46:27 AM EST
    Of the pom-pom brigade.

    The largest transfer of wealth in American history, achieved with no transparency and no accountability, without even so much as a Congressional hearing, and all these clowns can do is stamp their feet and say it's great because Obama did it. It's not great. He should change course before it's too late.

    you misunderstand geek (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by Turkana on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:56:02 AM EST
    if obama and his minions do something, it must be right. if they don't, it's because doing it would have been wrong.

    anyway, in the thread geek was responding to, elise said geek is always right. it must be so. trickle down infallibility...

    hehehe. (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Salo on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:11:05 PM EST
    Trickle Down Infallibility

    Banksterism

    And that pair are defending it to the hilt.

    Sh*tty times no doubt, but still rather funny.

    Parent

    Funny...I don't remember such (5.00 / 7) (#33)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:07:33 PM EST
    careful parsing and contortionist logic when the Bush gang were scamming us six ways from Sunday on the war - then, the pages of DK - among others - were filled with screaming about about the importance of transparency and accountability and being honest with the American people, and no one there, or on any of the lefty blogs - were saying about Bush that soon, it would all make sense and we would be able to see the awesome brilliance of those behind the war in Iraq.

    This economic clusterf**ck is no different, and yet there are those who are making excuses and twisting common sense and logic into pretzel shapes never seen before.

    Funny they don't see the similarities, huh?

    Orange State :) (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:28:34 PM EST
    Asking hard questions, quality discourse, solution seeking, and quality blogs can be found though if that's what you desire.  I do like it when BTD and inclusiveheart take on Orange State and attempt mass schooling.  Heck, sometimes they even manage to get it done too.

    Parent
    But, Tracy, the one thing blogs ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:46:51 PM EST
    don't usually offer is any reporting.

    And reporting isn't that hard.  You can even do a lot of it on the phone in your PJ's.

    So as enjoyable, and informative, as they can be, this is why they will rarely rise above the level of a convo in a dorm lounge.

    And BTD can play teacher as much as he likes.  But they'll just giggle and throw paper airplanes when he leaves the room.

    Parent

    I wonder that such people (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:18:30 PM EST
    can even bother with a voting booth.  Someone is always reading for content and participating and living beyond groupyism.  It is often me, but sometimes it's you and usually it is everyone who bothers to read someone as unpleasant as BTD..........because as Gwen says, "It's MY life......don't you forget!"

    Parent
    Robot... (none / 0) (#46)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:36:15 PM EST
    ... are you a real reporter?

    Parent
    A series of comments. (2.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Green26 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 10:16:10 PM EST
    1. It's my understanding that the problems and toxic assets are in various parts of the large financial institutions, including banks, investment banks, insurance companies and other segements. Presumably, bad and toxic loans are primarily in banks and insurance companies. Toxic securities are presumably in all of these segments.

    2. Banks cannot be taken over by the US without compliance with specific statutes and regulations. Loosely speaking, solvent banks cannot be taken over under a provision allowing insolvent banks to be taken over. Again, the head of the FDIC said in March that all of the big banks are "well-capitalized" at this time. That means they aren't close to being involvent--as there are other acceptable and lower levels of capitalization.

    3. My view is that it would be much much more costly for the US to take over these financial institutions (assuming it could), as taking over banks is very costly in most situations. Looking only at the toxic assets, why would the US want to take over all of the toxic assets--with no participation by the private sector, little machinery in place to manage the assets, and presumably having to come up with a process to sell some of the assets. In addition, much of the franchise and goodwill of the big banks will be lost if they are taken over--is my view.

    4. "But regulatory receivership accomplishes this with transparency and efficiency." I don't agree with this statement. I believe regulatory receivership would be much more expensive and much less efficient--assuming the banks have a reasonable chance of making it. If certain banks don't have a reasonable chance of making it, then my view would probably change.

    Taking over banks or allowing them to fail would have significant negative impacts on the markets and financial system, in my view. As already stated, taking over banks would also negatively impact their franchise and goodwill.

    5. AIG is a much different (and unusual)situation, due to their credit default swaps/insurance and AIG's intertwined connections with some many banks and companies worldwide. AIG is being wound down and stabilized, so that good parts can be sold in pieces.

    bac and c (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 08, 2009 at 09:36:04 AM EST
    are two of the biggest holders of cds.  They are no different than AIG in that regard.

    Parent