Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 01:53:02 PM EST
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I have had an extensive exchange of communications with Stuart Taylor about my post yesterday. Taylor makes some good points about my characterization (to be clear, the views expressed in that post are solely my responsibility and in no way reflect on any other writers at this site) of his views and they deserve a fair response. For the moment, I want to apologize to him for calling him a liar in that post - it is clear he believes what he wrote and my charge of mendacity was unfair and uncalled for. He also brought forth some information that I need to respond to. My general views on the subject have not changed. But, in fairness to Taylor, I need to address his points in a more civil and comprehensive fashion. I will do so by no later than tomorrow.

This is an Open Thread.

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Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 58 comments (58 topical)

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Onto subjects (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:08:04 PM EST

I have no trouble wrapping my head around.

Jacoby Ellsbury stole home. Against the yankees. With the bases loaded and two outs. WOW!

I am feeling pretty good about the fact that we passed on Santana right now.

Troll (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:09:11 PM EST

Jealous (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:11:42 PM EST

When you get to 10 (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:12:33 PM EST

world chanpionships, call me.

27.


Some people (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:14:29 PM EST

have no other option but to live in the past.


April 27 (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:22:17 PM EST

You calling the season already?


Not this one yet (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:26:56 PM EST

Just the weekend sweep.
You were the one who brought up the championships.
When was the last time the yankees won?


2000 (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:31:00 PM EST

4th in 5 years.

Sox have won 2 in 70.


: But (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by CoralGables on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 06:40:05 PM EST

Boston has won twice as many as the Yankees this century.

I expect you to address (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by ruffian on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:17:39 PM EST

this in a more civil and comprehensive fashion BTD!


Sox fans (5.00 / 4) (#12)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:21:46 PM EST

deserve no respect or civility.


: ha! I have no dog in this fight (none / 0) (#21)
by ruffian on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:58:49 PM EST

The Sox lost my underdog sympathy when they won the Series before my Cubbies!

Is that why... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:10:25 PM EST

...you've decided to have his children? I'm just glad you guys took care of the Evil Empire this weekend.


Troll (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:11:15 PM EST

Hobbit (5.00 / 4) (#18)
by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:41:39 PM EST

: Agree w/BTD here, but I gotta say (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by vicndabx on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:34:30 PM EST

that Hobbit comeback had me on the floor.

: I always liked Frodo and the Hobbit book (none / 0) (#35)
by Cream City on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:45:39 PM EST

best, so watch it there. "Hobbit" is a compliment -- unless you happen to know that BTD has furry toes?
(But yeh, your riposte had me figuratively on the floor laughing, too.:-)

Yes (none / 0) (#9)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:12:37 PM EST

Although I may have to fight my sister (and the rest of the female population of Boston) on that one.

That, and he's very attractive.


hey (gratuitious self promotion) (5.00 / 3) (#23)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:01:14 PM EST

remember those cool Red Sox graphics on the big board at Fenway in the late 90s?
(probably some are still showing)
I did those.


sweet (none / 0) (#27)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:28:07 PM EST

I like your professional allegiance. Please don't ruin it by telling me you did the same thing for another team :)

Very cool graphics though.


: nope (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:43:09 PM EST

I am pure
that was my one and only foray into sports. it was fun to get to play with the big board in the 90s I must say.

the steal was awesome... (none / 0) (#26)
by of1000Kings on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:23:53 PM EST

but given that he had an 80% probability of scoring in that situation anyway it wasn't smart...

still awesome, though...


Seems unlikely (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by Steve M on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:02:41 PM EST

runner on third with two outs, scores 80% of the time? No way...


: ahhh, didn't know there were two away (none / 0) (#41)
by of1000Kings on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:31:19 PM EST

was thinking one...
I'll have to go check the probability percentages for that situation...

Sox rhymes with (none / 0) (#29)
by vicndabx on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:33:41 PM EST

sucks. :-)


only (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by CST on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:35:46 PM EST

if you're a yankees fan and can't speak english or rhyme.

:-D


: Heh (none / 0) (#32)
by vicndabx on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:40:07 PM EST

:-)

My recollection of Stuart Taylor (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by hairspray on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:34:25 PM EST

was that of a person who attacked Bill Clinton rather fiercely during the Lewinsky/Kenneth Starr period. Since so much of what was written, according to Gene Lyons was embellished to fit the story line of Clinton as serial adulterer, writers were able to either express outrage and/or continue to mislead using the "facts." Stuart wrote in 2001, "Democrats should resist the understandable urge to do to Bush what Republicans did to Clinton."

Like there was ever a choice (5.00 / 2) (#20)
by ruffian on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:55:28 PM EST

for Dems to "do to Bush what Republicans did to Clinton". Without press corps complicity, it could not have happened to Clinton, and that complicity was never available to Dems against Bush. Even now it is not, when he is a war criminal. I trust BTD will not let Taylor off the hook easily.


I am convinced (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:00:23 PM EST

he expressed his honest views. I believe they are wrong.

But I called him a liar and I think I was wrong to do that.

Hence, I apologized for doing so.


Liar probably the wrong word (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by ruffian on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:20:27 PM EST

and you are right to apologize. I just meant I am sure you will still let him know where you disagree.


So if you r-e-a-l-l-y believe it... (none / 0) (#40)
by lambert on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:30:15 PM EST

... it's not a lie?

Apologies for Seinfeld quotation that I cannot quite recall.


I thought the "lie" was his assertion (none / 0) (#53)
by Anne on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 07:54:12 PM EST

that harsh interrogation technigues had saved thousands of lives, and it could cost many more lives if those techniques were not available.

I would say that's debatable, but that would be playing right into the hands of people who want this to be an argument about whether torture is effective, as if effectiveness is how we decide whether something is right or wrong.

That's the wrong argument.

Maybe we could put all the apologists in a room where they could endlessly argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin - meanwhile, we could actually get to the truth of what happened so we could then make some reasoned decisions about what consequences should flow from it.


: Saw a military intelligence officer, (none / 0) (#54)
by NYShooter on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 09:18:53 PM EST

Interrogation expert, (I think it was on Charlie Rose) who stated that Abu Ghraib
has cost hundreds, if not a thousand or more, American soldiers' lives. His first hand information led him to believe that revenge for the Abu Ghraib torture photos has been the terrorists' number 1 recruiting tool since then. They joined up, not for ideology, but just to kill Americans.
I know we all suspected as much, but this was the first time I heard an on-the-scene expert state it on the record.

Taylor is not a nice person (none / 0) (#19)
by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:53:28 PM EST

to put it mildly (in deference to the obscenity-censoring software only). Whether or not he told a bald-faced lie in the referenced post/article doesn't change what he is.


AF1 photo op triggers panic (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by jbindc on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:31:30 PM EST

in New York

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is "furious" over a Department of Defense low-altitude flyover of NYC in the area around Ground Zero this morning, calling it "ill-conceived" and a "waste of taxpayers' money."
A photo shoot involving a 747 used as Air Force One and one fighter jet flying at low altitude led to hundreds of frightened calls from residents and workers in Lower Manhattan this morning, triggering memories of 9-11 as many evacuated their offices. The president was not aboard.

Seriously, WTF were they thinking?!!! (5.00 / 4) (#34)
by nycstray on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:43:51 PM EST

click on the image in this link from the AP

I can't even image what the workers in those buildings thought . . . .


I don't get this AT ALL (5.00 / 4) (#39)
by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:26:17 PM EST

Why is it necessary under any circumstances at any time in history to have a "photo op" for AF1, never mind over NYC? Apparently, it was intended to have the Statue of Liberty in the picture. WTF?? Sounds like the same people dreamed that up that thought Greek columns would be peachy-keen at the convention and that candidate Obama needed a "seal" indistinguishable from the presidential seal.

Can somebody please get somebody with better judgment -- and taste -- in there to decide these things?

And what is this person, 12 years old, that they somehow didn't make a connection between low-flying planes and NYC and 9/11 or something?


The Mayor is furious (5.00 / 3) (#45)
by nycstray on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:38:37 PM EST

The people in those buildings deserved to know (as well as the rest of us). How hard would it have been to have posted signs, email companies or SOMETHING!! I don't know anyone that would not have high tailed it out the building upon seeing a low flying plane banking outside their window.


At least TWO nitwits... (5.00 / 3) (#46)
by oldpro on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:40:30 PM EST

one who had the idea and one who OK'd it.

Pretty dim bulbs.

Better fill out the staff jobs quickly and get some adults in to watch the kiddies...you know, people whose experience demonstrates that not every idea is a good one to be acted on.


: Obama is reported to be (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 09:33:05 PM EST

furious, as well, but who knows. If it was up to me, I'd have the guy who authorized this out of there and in the unemployment line so fast his head would spin.

Maybe the photo will be signed by the (none / 0) (#58)
by coast on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 10:31:52 PM EST

President and become the new gift to visiting heads of state. Beats a bunch of CDs, I guess.


To brighten your day (5.00 / 3) (#38)
by Steve M on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:20:02 PM EST

a picture...

Is that Audrey? (none / 0) (#42)
by caseyOR on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:35:06 PM EST

What a little sweetie. If I didn't live on the opposite coast, Steve, I would so volunteer to babysit. How is little Desmond?


: He is great (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by Steve M on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:56:47 PM EST

My wife tells me he actually laughed and smiled in his sleep today, which would be a first! He is a sweet little snoozer, just one month old.

What a sweetie! Yours? (none / 0) (#43)
by oldpro on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:36:35 PM EST

: Yes indeed! (none / 0) (#49)
by Steve M on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 05:47:02 PM EST

She is tall like daddy and everything. Not even 3 and she can already reach the freezer. Woe is us...

I love the flowers in her hair - (none / 0) (#51)
by Anne on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 07:23:35 PM EST

makes me remember weaving wreaths out of dandelions or clover and wearing them like crowns.

She's just adorable...it's such a great age; they're finally old enough to express what's been going on in their heads, they're starting to get concepts and regularly startling you with their insights and the depth of their understanding about things.

Talk about having to be on your toes...staying one step ahead of minds that are just bursting with growth can be exhausting - but so much fun!


I look forward to further discussion (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:38:06 PM EST

It isn't as if this is something we can discuss too much. Thanks for making that possible, and not just having a sanctimonious swingfest - which where this issue is concerned, can all too easily happen.

GM cuts Pontiac division (none / 0) (#1)
by jbindc on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:04:15 PM EST

And another 21,000 jobs in 2010

The latest (none / 0) (#8)
by SOS on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:12:34 PM EST

World Health Organisation May Increase Alert To Level 4
UKMedix Health News - ‎1 hour ago‎
A Level 5 alert signals that the pandemic has begun.

Anne Schuchat at the Centers for Disease Control said that the World Health Organisation was likely to issue travel recommendations and that there was a "strong possibility" that the alert level change would be announced today.

with the U of Illinois (none / 0) (#17)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 02:40:06 PM EST

here I have been expecting some cases to pop up here as a result of spring break.
so far none.
but that could be only because of the dismal state of heath care here.
there could be a dozen cases and we still might not hear about it.


: Well keep this in mind also (none / 0) (#24)
by SOS on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 03:09:42 PM EST

A troubling increase in resistance to the antiviral drug Tamiflu is linked mostly to influenza A strains that are circulating this season, a new government report shows.
Almost 100 percent of the influenza A (H1N1) strain is now resistant to the drug, up from 12 percent during last year's flu season, said report author Dr. Alicia Fry, a medical epidemiologist with the influenza division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/hscout/2009/03/02/hscout624591.html

some good news (none / 0) (#37)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 04:05:55 PM EST

Dr. Frank Page, one of the key conservative evangelicals on President Obama's Faith Council tells The Brody File that when it comes to the social issues surrounding President Obama's presidency he has been disappointed and not very encouraged by the first 100 days in office.

Rumsfeld poised to make a "killing" (none / 0) (#48)
by SOS on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 05:06:38 PM EST

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2009/04/27/daily13.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Well (none / 0) (#52)
by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 07:25:31 PM EST

You may have to take back calling him a liar, but he is definitely a hypocrite. Maybe you could just substitute one for the other.

Stand-up move, Armando (none / 0) (#56)
by randy80302 on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 09:46:02 PM EST

For the moment, I want to apologize to him for calling him a liar in that post

You would never see this on a Rightwing site, that is why we won and will continue to win against them. They use "talking points" as a fact and the American public, thanks to the work of Bloggers learn the truth.

"... and the truth will set you free"

Keep up the good work, your occasional mistake is a price that we pay for your productive good work.

Stand-up move, Armando (none / 0) (#57)
by randy80302 on Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 09:46:56 PM EST