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Colorado House Votes to Repeal Death Penalty

By Jeralyn, Section Death Penalty
Posted on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 12:05:20 PM EST
Tags: capital punishment (all tags)
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Colorado is a major step closer to eliminating the death penalty. The bill to repeal it and use the savings on solving cold cases passed the House by a single vote today. It now goes to the Senate.

The last death penalty case in Colorado cost $1.4 million to prosecute. It costs about $70,000 for a non-capital murder case.

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    Colorado House Votes to Repeal Death Penalty | 43 comments (43 topical)

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    From what I understand (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MikeDitto on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 01:36:50 PM EST
    Governor Ritter is saying he will veto the bill, but I think he can be moved.

    Setting aside the moral wrong of state-sanctioned murder, it's a budgetary nightmare.

    Colorado spends millions and millions of dollars prosecuting and defending death penalty cases and to what end? We have exactly one person on death row (the Chuck E Cheese killer). Not a very effective use of those millions.

    The state just slashed funding for kids' healthcare because we are out of money. In general, it's widely accepted that cutting programs that don't work is good fiscal policy. Kids' healthcare works. The death penalty doesn't.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by MrConservative on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:20:03 PM EST
    Richardson also had a lifetime of supporting the death penalty.  He signed the bill.  One plus is that Ritter is a catholic; Catholics, in my experience, have been the only group that has been reasonably anti-death penalty besides the far left humanists.  He may support the death penalty now, but like with Richardson, having his religion saying that he should sign the bill will make it a lot more plausible; contrasting to those moderates who's religion is 100% pro DP, and whom there's really no hope for.

    Really one of the things that have made the DP so long lasting in America has been that religion is ON ITS SIDE, which is the opposite of practically everywhere besides the middle east.  It's ironic that the protestants, who were supposed to be liberal, have become massively more conservative than the Catholics over time.

    [ Parent ]

    We have two people... (none / 0) (#4)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 02:04:41 PM EST
    ...on death row--Nathan Dunlop and Robert Harlan.  In '03 there were 3 additional people, but I believe their sentences (handed down by a 3 judge panel) were overturned?  

    Also, Governor Ritter has not voiced either his opposition or support for this measure.  

    [ Parent ]

    We're both wrong (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MikeDitto on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 10:02:40 PM EST
    Harlan's sentence was overturned. The second death row inmate is Sir Mario Owens, whose appeal process has only just begun, as he was only sentenced last summer.

    Ritter hasn't made any public comments as far as I know, but the buzz at the capitol is that he's indicated to staff he'll veto. But like I say I think he can be moved, especially if the archbishop makes a strong statement of support for the repeal.

    [ Parent ]

    How could I miss... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 10:05:54 AM EST
    ...Sir Mario!  Oh well, not the first time I've been wrong.  

    The Gov. certainly seems to be content to keep a very low profile these days--as evidenced by his silence on the whole Pinnicol/budget mess.  Hope he remembers he's got a re-election campaign coming up.

    He's going to catch heck from the usual suspects no matter what he does, I just hope he shows a little leadership and doesn't veto this if it makes it through the Senate.  

    [ Parent ]

    Long way to go (none / 0) (#37)
    by Mikeb302000 on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:34:29 AM EST
    This one has a long way to go, but even if the gov. vetoes it, this creates good press for the abolition movement.

    [ Parent ]
    Yesterday's paper on death penalty (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by caseyOR on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 01:54:08 PM EST
    Yesterday's Oregonian had a front page story asking  "Can Oregon afford the death penalty?" The point was that the death penalty is so friggin' expensive, and the state is so friggin' close to financial collapse that it may be time to revisit the death penalty. District attorneys are up in arms at the very thought.

    I would prefer that the death penalty be ended because it is bad on its merits, but I'll take what I can get.

    Thanks to that #@%*& citizen initiative process, we now spend more state monies on prisons than we do on higher education. Some people have started questioning those priorities. Perhaps this budget discussion is the all important first step.

    Boy howdy, are the district attorneys upset about the possibility of no death penalty.

    As I posted elsewhere... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Romberry on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 04:27:04 PM EST
    I don't think civilized societies of the modern era engage in the vengeance/retribution of state sanctioned murder, AKA capital punishment. The United States is the last western industrialized nation on earth the retains execution (of potentially innocent people) as an option, and among the supporters of that option, the cries are to do it faster, more often and with less due process. The blood lust is strong.

    I used to support capital punishment but the more I learned about it, the less I thought it was a good idea until finally, in my mid-20's, I abandoned any defense of the idea at all. I also gotta say that statements like "Factual innocence is not a bar to execution" from a sitting USSC justice (who contends that as long as you've had due process, late evidence of innocence should not be able to save you) didn't do much to make me believe that the capital punishment system (which sentences the poor and minorities to death at rates many times higher than the well represented well-heeled) was anything close to fair or an avenue for justice.

    If Colorado can repeal the death penalty, I applaud them and hope other states follow suit.

    why not? (2.00 / 1) (#14)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 04:41:15 PM EST
    "I don't think civilized societies of the modern era engage in the vengeance/retribution of state sanctioned murder, AKA capital punishment. The United States is the last western industrialized nation on earth the retains execution (of potentially innocent people) as an option, and among the supporters of that option, the cries are to do it faster, more often and with less due process. The blood lust is strong."

    There is no conflict between blood lust and civilization. There is no reason NOT to give the people what they want. If most people think that murderers deserve to die, i don't see a problem executing them.

    Indeed, it is hard to argue why some child rapist-murderer should not die. We kill people with LESS cause in wars.

    Executing the innocent is a problem and let the opponents to have a position to rail their opposition. However, there are many cases where guilt is not in doubt (say with DNA evidence). In those cases, I see no reason why a quick execution should be in order.

    [ Parent ]

    Execution (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by MrConservative on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:22:34 PM EST
    Is ALWAYS immoral, period.  The practical considerations that make the death penalty idiotic just show how you immoral people are also completely unreasonable.

    [ Parent ]
    "always immoral, period" (1.00 / 0) (#34)
    by diogenes on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 08:04:16 PM EST
    Funny, when people use that phrase about wanting a society without abortion they are shouted out of the room as being extremists.
    I didn't know that the US had a state religion that defined morality and whose tenets led us to pick laws.


    [ Parent ]
    LOL ... says who? u? (none / 0) (#40)
    by narius on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 02:23:21 PM EST
    There is no absolute morality. That is all in the minds of humans.

    And so wat are you going to do in the land of the immoral people? Move away and start you own "moral" nation? Ha ha ha ha ...

    It is quite simple. People want blood. Just give it to them.

    Executing murderers sound a lot better than killing women & children in war and we did MORE of that than executing scumbags of the world.

    [ Parent ]

    Bravo (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 12:08:24 PM EST
    I wish "liberal" California were as wise.

    The alternative ... (none / 0) (#5)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 02:10:31 PM EST
    is to find ways to LOWER the costs of death penalty cases, if money is your concern.

    The lawyering is really getting out of hand.

    maybe they could just (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 02:54:24 PM EST
    defend themselves.

    [ Parent ]
    may be they could just .. (2.00 / 1) (#18)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:21:38 PM EST
    NOT commit any violent crime in the first place.

    What is to defend if guilt is certain (and this part of the trial is NO difference than that of a life-sentence)?

    [ Parent ]

    Life (none / 0) (#30)
    by MrConservative on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:25:17 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well, (none / 0) (#7)
    by bocajeff on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 02:56:55 PM EST
    You run up the cost of something and then complain that the cost is too high. Very smart strategy.

    [ Parent ]
    thank you (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 02:57:46 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well, if it's illegal, execution (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 03:26:27 PM EST
    should be really, really, hard. There is no humane or sane way to reduce the cost, IMO.

    [ Parent ]
    lets cut to the chase (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 03:34:33 PM EST
    there is no humane or sane way to carry out an execution.  period.

    [ Parent ]
    That's not a position that's going to do it (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 03:37:15 PM EST
    for everyone. "It's not worth it" is a compelling secondary argument.

    [ Parent ]
    and thats fine (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 03:39:07 PM EST
    whatever works.  but he above in my personal opinion.

    [ Parent ]
    Violent crime is not (2.00 / 1) (#15)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 04:42:10 PM EST
    humane either.

    There is no reason to respond to a violent criminal with an overdose of humanity.

    [ Parent ]

    right (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 04:51:10 PM EST
    no reason to set any kind or moral example.
    also our response to violent crime, which distinguishes us from pretty much the rest of the civilized world, has had such a spectacular success in curbing violent crime in this country.
    no reason at all. as long as we have China, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen and the Congo on our side we are cool.

    [ Parent ]
    yeah .. morality towards violent criminals are .. (2.00 / 1) (#17)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:19:28 PM EST
    way over-rated.

    Just look at Hollywood movies which are the cultural barometer of this country. Where do bad people go in pop culture? Horribly violent death. Lethal injections are too good for them. While that is not real world, it sheds light on what people in this country want.

    Do you really think the American people care about setting "moral" examples for the French? Isn't knowing that we bail them out from the Nazi (with very very violent means resulted in lots of killing) enough?

    [ Parent ]

    Conservatives crack me up (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ricosuave on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 08:07:40 PM EST
    They don't trust the government enough to decide what level of arsenic might be dangerous in water, but they are fully confident in the government's ability to decide who should live and who should die.

    Of course, that is a canard from my own point of view.  Even if the criminal justice system were perfect at identifying guilty people, I would still be opposed to the government killing people.

    [ Parent ]

    for some reason (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:25:28 PM EST
    I am reminded of a quote from a great movie appropriately enough titled To Die For in which Nicole Kidman plays a vacuous aspiring tv personality.  at one point she says something like "if everyone was on tv we would all be better people.  after all, what is the point of doing something good if no one is watching?"

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly .... (none / 0) (#20)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:29:02 PM EST
    people are not moral inherently. They are just boxed in by political correctness.

    Heck, there is no fundamental morality. There are only social consequences.

    [ Parent ]

    what a sad strange world (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    you live in

    [ Parent ]
    putting your head .. (2.00 / 1) (#22)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:38:08 PM EST
    in the sand?

    [ Parent ]
    I wonder (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:41:03 PM EST
    how do you explain the paradox that we are the only 1st world counrty that has the death penalty and we have the highest murder rate in the world (afaik) certainly the highest in the 1st world.

    are we simply not executing enough people?

    [ Parent ]

    Why do I have to explain that? (2.00 / 1) (#24)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:44:49 PM EST
    I don't recall arguing the death penalty is an effective deterrent. I merely point out that the American people want blood from violent scums, and there is no reason not to give it to them.

    And if you want to look at murder rate ... get rid of the guns would be a lot more effective than anything else but of course our founding fathers prevent us from doing that. It is a lot more difficult to murder people with knives, ropes and poison.

    [ Parent ]

    wow (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:50:18 PM EST
    I have never heard anyone defend the death penalty without trotting out the old deterrent saw.  I am rather speechless.   congratulations, not an easy feat.

    I would just say perhaps they want that because our culture has told them they "deserve" it (which may explain the number of murders in the first place, but I digress) and suggest it might be a good idea to start changing that mindset.

    and agree to disagree.

    [ Parent ]

    because i am not anyone? .. ha ha ... (2.00 / 1) (#26)
    by narius on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 05:59:22 PM EST
    Seriously, there is no inherent fundamental reason why we want to change that mindset.

    I suppose you can say you want to change everyone to think like YOU and that is a valid point.

    However, in a larger sociological standpoint, there is no good reason. If everyone in the world agree that confirmed child killer (say by some definition with irrefutable evidence) should automatically be killed ... there is no reason to believe that world is better or worse than ours. Will people be happier in that world? Will the world be more stable? Hard to argue otherwise.

    The culture will go where it goes. No one can really control it.

    [ Parent ]

    Stupid (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MrConservative on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:28:42 PM EST
    "However, in a larger sociological standpoint, there is no good reason."

    This isn't even an argument.  Stating something doens't make it true. The death penalty is a disgusting, evil atrocity.

    "Will people be happier in that world? Will the world be more stable? Hard to argue otherwise."

    It's easy to argue otherwise.  That would be a violent, sadistic world full of people like you.  I don't want my children within a thousand feet of scum like you.

    [ Parent ]

    What? (none / 0) (#31)
    by MrConservative on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:27:10 PM EST
    "there is no reason not to give it to them."

    I think you're a piece of violent scum.  Let's stick the needle in you.  

    [ Parent ]

    Well, isn't it sad that ... (none / 0) (#41)
    by narius on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 02:25:28 PM EST
    you cannot convince enough people to do so????

    While we (the BIG WE) convince enough people to execute violent offenders in many states.

    Welcome to the REAL world.

    [ Parent ]

    Because, seriously? (none / 0) (#38)
    by sj on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 09:39:47 AM EST
    ... American people want blood from violent scums, and there is no reason not to give it to them.

    I'm thinking we should just throw them in there with half-starved lions and then sell tickets.  I agree with Capt Howdy -- yours is a strange and sad world.  This may come as a shock to you, but the entire population is not sociopathic.


    [ Parent ]

    Are we already doing that? .... (none / 0) (#42)
    by narius on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 02:27:25 PM EST
    Crucifying people in front of the media is a national hobby and certainly lots of money is being made.

    You don't know that the world is sad? you need to read more news about Africa or the middle east.

    If you find it strange, try to actually read some news once in a while.

    [ Parent ]

    I DO find it strange (none / 0) (#43)
    by sj on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 03:33:08 PM EST
    and sad and twisted.  

    While, apparently, you find it natural.

    [ Parent ]

    One solution (none / 0) (#28)
    by MrConservative on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:21:29 PM EST
    Would be to execute innocent people.  Good idea!

    [ Parent ]
    How do you know they are innocent? (none / 0) (#33)
    by JSN on Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 06:52:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Colorado House Votes to Repeal Death Penalty | 43 comments (43 topical)

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