Obama Administration To Release Torture Memos

By Big Tent Democrat, Section War on Terror
Posted on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:26:35 AM EST
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This could be excellent news:

After a tense internal debate, the Obama administration this afternoon will make public a number of detailed memos describing the harsh interrogation techniques used by the Central Intelligence Agency against al Qaeda suspects in secret overseas prisons. The interrogation methods were among the Bush administration’s most closely guarded secrets, and today’s release will be the most comprehensive public accounting to date of the interrogation program that some senior Obama administration officials have said used illegal torture.

[More...]

. . . The debate about just how much detail to include in the public release bitterly divided an Obama administration still in early months. Fueling the urgency of the discussion was today’s court deadline in a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, which had sued the government for the release of the Justice Department memos. . . . On Wednesday, Mr. Obama’s top advisers met at the White House for the final round of deliberations over the interrogation documents.

Of course, the devil will be in the details, how much and what will be redacted? The implication of the reporting is that very little will be redacted. Let's hope it is so.

Speaking for me only

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Obama Administration To Release Torture Memos | 34 comments (34 topical)

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I will believe it when I see it. (5.00 / 3) (#3)
by scribe on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:34:10 AM EST

And they'd f'g well better be unredacted.

: I'm with you. (none / 0) (#18)
by Anne on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:55:25 PM EST

There have been too many instances of being teased about an Obama decision for me to count on any preliminary statements as being predictive of what is really going to happen.
My understanding is that Brennan has been arguing against release of the memos, so if he is overridden on this, that will be a good sign on several levels.
In fact, it is Brennan's involvment that makes me think that the release may be little more than lip service.
I hope I am wrong.

FWIW - going to the linked report in the NYT (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by scribe on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:40:57 AM EST

I found the following at the bottom in the "Related Posts" box:

TalkLeft
Obama's Secret Laws?
Democratic Underground
Portions of CIA Memos Expected to Be Released
TAPPED
Crunch Time.
Daily Kos
President Obama and the Torture Memos
The Opinionator
Do You Want to Know a (State) Secret?

The NYT is linking back here.

I repeat (none / 0) (#1)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:31:13 AM EST

redactions will be minimal. otherwise they are looking at a mutiny.

A mutiny (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:34:08 AM EST

from who?


seriously (none / 0) (#5)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:37:19 AM EST

can you imagine the explosion?
being the cynical optimist I am, I dont expect much to happen no matter what they release but I will say this, if the are redacted to the point of being useless I am looking forward to the fireworks show.


Fireworks (4.66 / 3) (#8)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:42:03 AM EST

from who? BTD? Yeah, I can see him getting angry but IMO most of his supporters will just excuse it away.


I dont think so (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:43:47 AM EST

not this. criticism has been growing for a while and not just here. these people read the internets.


Who are "these people"? (none / 0) (#15)
by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:28:09 PM EST

Obama's supporters will only be rocked by redacting if this is a top priority issue to them. People who voted for him because he was the "D" are the ones I would expect to regret their vote, but I doubt they would explode.


: The deadline to respond and disclose (none / 0) (#17)
by scribe on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:31:01 PM EST

was an item (actually ahead of the teabagging) on this morning's early morning TV news in my market.
This issue is pretty obscure, and to be getting that level of traction indicates a lot of people are paying attention. The issue is also being cast as "Obama being tested in his committment to his campaign principles and promises" - never a happy frame for a pol seeking to avoid responsibility or blame.

Had nothing been released... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by Thanin on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:50:05 AM EST

this could have been the straw that broke the Obama supporters back. Maybe not, as you claim, but I could have seen it happening.


If the memos (4.00 / 1) (#13)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:06:28 PM EST

are released and they are heavily redacted but heavily redacted I'm willing to bet that they'll excuse everything away. Of course, I hope you are right but he's done plenty of things already and they've made excuse after excuse for him so I simply can't imagine this changing their minds.


: Will you now praise him (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by MKS on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 03:19:22 PM EST

for not heavily redacting the memos?

I can think of a couple: (none / 0) (#12)
by scribe on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:04:50 PM EST

Balkin and Johnsen, for starters.

Both of them have been quite outspoken not only on the substantive wrongness of the Bushco policies (which, they made clear, proceeded from the memoranda as fruit from the tree) but also on the wrongfulness of politicizing the DoJ (generally) and the OLC (in particular). They have made clear that the politicization of OLC was exemplified by Yoo, Bybee, et als. writing the memoranda so as to facilitate whatever Bush/Cheney's whim du jour might have been.

And, their appointments were greeted here and elsewhere as a welcome counterweight to the Establishment and bury-the-past mindset of many of Obama's other lawyer-job appointments.


Could someone give an explanation (none / 0) (#4)
by Green26 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:35:28 AM EST

of why it's important to release these memos publicly? I'm not doubting anything; I just haven't been following this issue.

Shorter Greenwald: (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by scribe on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:39:15 AM EST

These are lawyers' opinions on what the law is, and not intelligence documents. The lawyers who wrote these worked in the Office of Legal Counsel, which basically tells the whole Executive Branch what the law is.

These memoranda stated that conduct any sane person would call torture was acceptable under US law, notwithstanding clear statutory, treaty and precedential law to the contrary.

In so many words, these opinions were considered "gold-plated get out of jail free cards".

They were also kept secret, raising the whole issue of two sets of laws - public laws for everyone, and secret laws that both supersede the public ones and contradict them for the select few at the top of the power pyramid.


Shorter Still (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by MO Blue on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:03:37 PM EST

The President is above the law.


No. Incorrect. (none / 0) (#16)
by scribe on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:28:23 PM EST

"The President is the law, and his decrees supersede all written law."

Go see this reference, and also make a point of scrolling down to all the linked "See also" references, particularly this one.


: Not that, either... (none / 0) (#21)
by tokin librul on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:08:20 PM EST

"When the President does it, it's not illegal." --Richard Milhouse Nixon to David Frost...

: I agree (none / 0) (#23)
by MO Blue on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:31:37 PM EST

that is a more accurate description.

Should Read (none / 0) (#22)
by tokin librul on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:10:36 PM EST

"The President IS the Law."

No president except George Washington has ever ceded back to the Congress/People any powers arrogated to meet exigent circumstance...


: Shorter still (5.00 / 0) (#24)
by lambert on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:39:17 PM EST

L'etat, c'est moi.
How'd that one work out? Anyone remember?

: I thought Judge Dredd was the law (none / 0) (#26)
by steviez314 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:47:08 PM EST

I am the Law

The release of the documents (none / 0) (#14)
by bocajeff on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:11:09 PM EST

is purely political as governments tend to get around laws (breaking them) whenever they see fit. This can be Iran-Contra, Torture, Fundraising, etc...

Most of the electorate couldn't care less as they are mired in their own lives. Anyone who thinks the Obama presidency is in any way politically affected by this is naive. We are in a terrible recession that is costing people their jobs and homes. What the past president did is important but down on the list or priorities.

: How about the DNC? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by Fabian on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 12:56:48 PM EST

Is "Democrat" going to mean anything different than "Republican" in 2010 if the economy is still in trouble?
The politics of contrast needs to be MORE than just a marketing tool. If the Democrats can't prove how they and their policies are significantly better than the Republicans, they'll be in a heap of trouble come 2010.
It's easy for a Presidential candidate to say "I'm better than the Other Guy." but in a midterm election, it often is which Party is deemed better.

: Never has it been more true that (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by Anne on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:06:39 PM EST

the past is prologue; Obama keeps talking about "moving forward," but the truth is that we carry the past with us, and it sets the standard for the future.
It may well be true that much of America isn't paying attention, or doesn't care - hell, much of America never bothers to vote - but that doesn't mean it isn't important, and it also doesn't mean that the principles at stake do not transcend politics.
Ironic that the president who wants us to focus on the United States of America, instead of our partisan preferences, does not seem to have shown in some of his decisions the requisite regard for that entity, the continued existence of which hinges on his carring out the oath he took on inauguration day.

waitingwaitingwaiting.... (none / 0) (#25)
by Fabian on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:43:35 PM EST

Are they released yet?

Maybe not (none / 0) (#27)
by jbindc on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 01:58:08 PM EST

until 5:30 EDT - not enough time for the media to go through them before the nightly news, but Larry, Curly, and Moe (Matthews, Olbermann, and Maddow) can play it up big time on their shows without really knowing what is or isn't really being released.


last night (4.00 / 3) (#29)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 02:06:55 PM EST

for the first time in ages I watched both Olberman and Maddow. only because I wanted to hear all the teabagging jokes.
and I was not dissappointed. it was double entendre mania.


Like they could resist! (none / 0) (#32)
by Fabian on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 05:19:21 PM EST

Predictable.


: That's what happens (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by jbindc on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 05:23:12 PM EST

When you have the maturity of 12 year olds and your own TV shows!

as long as they are released (none / 0) (#28)
by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 02:02:18 PM EST

they can be read and reported on tommorow.


Writing a paper right now... (none / 0) (#30)
by mike in dc on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 02:22:36 PM EST

...for law school, on investigating high level executive branch wrongdoing, looking at the institutions that do it, the history of it, and the criteria for doing so with respect to current and future allegations.
I'm halfway through my JD program, but it's my understanding that in ordinary criminal law, reliance on bad legal advice isn't a valid defense to criminal charges. The only exception to this, for mistakes of law, is the "official statement doctrine". Even then, I'm not totally persuaded that's really applicable here. But I assume that, in the event there ever is a prosecution, there will be a defense that incorporates that argument.

Obama Admin to Release Torture Memos (none / 0) (#34)
by casman1998 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 10:32:53 PM EST

Remember war is not pretty and we as American may close our eyes and continue to pretend we do not see nor understand the cost. But the truth plan truth is that war is ugly and thus the main reason for use of diplomacy first! I have never engaged in a fight with rules that were not either broken or pushed to the limits in an effort to shift the fight in person's favor or the other. Come on America and let's get real.