To Promote Democracy In Cuba, Lift The Embargo

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Foreign Affairs
Posted on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:34:56 AM EST
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For over 5 decades, Fidel Castro's totalitarian regime has ruled Cuba with an iron fist. For nearly 5 decades, the United States has pursued a wrongheaded policy that has served to prop up support for Castro's regime. For nearly five decades, in the name of promoting democratic change in Cuba, the United States has pursued a policy that undermines the chances for democratic change. To promote democracy in Cuba, the United States should lift the embargo.

Tomorrow, the New America foundation will hold a program titled "Is It Time to End The Cold War in Latin America?" It will be livestreamed at Steve Clemons' blog. Perhaps, after the Bush Administration, the phrase "democracy promotion" has gotten a bad name. I am a believer in democracy promotion and refuse to allow the catastrophic blunders of the Bush Administration to tarnish a sound policy.

Speaking for me only

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To Promote Democracy In Cuba, Lift The Embargo | 53 comments (53 topical)

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I watched about 15 minutes of (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by andgarden on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:53:34 AM EST

The McLaughlin Group yesterday, and the idea of lifting the embargo got universal agreement. Even Pat Buchanan was for it.

I think the time has come.

: If they reject "Free Trade" (none / 0) (#43)
by jondee on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:16:04 PM EST

does the embargo start up again?

Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by kaleidescope on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:32:00 PM EST

Was the United States ever interested in promoting democracy in Cuba? We live in a country where our government and the ruling oligarchy considers democracy to be the problem, not the solution.

Preaching to the choir! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
by oldpro on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:22:55 PM EST

And if you're going to inject logic into these discussions of public policy, could you put gun control on the list, please? And the ERA? And...let me think...single-payer healthcare?

Wears me out thinking about sensible things that aren't gonna happen...at least not in my lifetime.

Obama as we speak has just lifted restrictions (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by Saul on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:25:20 PM EST

on travel and the amount of money you can send to Cuba. Unlimited travel and unlimited money.

Just Cuban Relatives (none / 0) (#36)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:29:50 PM EST

Not the general public.


: This is ACTUAL democracy (none / 0) (#37)
by jondee on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:39:18 PM EST

we're talking about promoting,or money=democracy?

Well (none / 0) (#1)
by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:39:08 AM EST

Obama lifts Cuba travel restrictions

This is a start, right?

Yes (none / 0) (#2)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:45:56 AM EST

Better relations with Cuba a very popular idea. I think many Americans do not see Cuba as any sort of threat. Friend of mine just went there for their honeymoon, via Mexico, and had a fantastic time. They will be going back.

The Cuban government (none / 0) (#3)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:47:16 AM EST

is only a threat to the Cuban people.


I Am Ignorant (none / 0) (#7)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:55:52 AM EST

Save for a few reports from friends traveling there and an excellent documentary by a friend Steve Fagan (UCSD) called TropiCola (1997).

The reports I have gotten from friends is that by and large the Cuban people that met over there were very proud of their country.


Nonsequitor (none / 0) (#8)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:57:02 AM EST

OK (none / 0) (#12)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:10:01 PM EST

I misread your statement to mean that Cubans are threatened by their government instead of what you wrote.


You read my statement correctly (none / 0) (#17)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:13:35 PM EST

Your comment was a nonsequitor to my statement imo.

That SOME feel proud of their country, Cuba, is not to say that the Cuban government is not a threat to the Cuban people.

For example, most Cubans were proud of Cuba in the 50s, even though Batista was a threat to the Cuban People.

Understand?


: Yes (none / 0) (#22)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:29:13 PM EST

Of course I understand. My intention was to somewhat mitigate your statement which on my first reading sounded inflammatory. I misread it to mean Cubans only have fear of their government.
On second reading your statement seemed indisputable.

It is your impression Cubans are (none / 0) (#18)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:14:16 PM EST

not threatened by their government? I think that is incorrect.


Who isn't threatened... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:43:39 PM EST

by their government to varying degrees.

I feel threatened by mine, for damn sure. Threat of arrest for no good reason, threat of national bankruptcy, you name it.


I have No Idea (none / 0) (#26)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:45:40 PM EST

All I said was that some Cubans are proud of what they have accomplished as a country, actually all I said was that some Cubans are proud.

My point was irrelevant contextually. No one here said that all Cubans live in total fear of their government all the time, iow, some Cubans have a rich life despite the fact that they may be afraid of their government.


Some Cubans have rich life because (none / 0) (#29)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:15:56 PM EST

they are in or favored by the government. Others may have superior ability to make the most emotionally of their present situation.


You could easily be describing.... (none / 0) (#31)
by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:37:38 PM EST

America or any other place on earth...the insiders got it good, the outsiders find hapiness in spite of the insiders and government.


Are You Just Generalizing? (none / 0) (#32)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:56:04 PM EST

As kdog put it, that could be descriptive of anywhere. Or do you have personal experience with Cuba?


Can't answer that here. But, it is common (none / 0) (#40)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:47:44 PM EST

knowledge roughly 200 buildings collapse in Havana per year. Until they collapse (not from storms or earthquakes--sheer neglect), people live in them. Until Raul Castro recently loosened government controls a bit, people in Cuba were not supposed to buy fruits, vegetables, or meat from private markets, have cell phones, internet access, and on and on. Of course, the "haves" managed to have these things, despite the illegality and the "have nots" probably can't afford them even though now legal.


So,how many people die (none / 0) (#41)
by jondee on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:57:21 PM EST

per year in those collapsed buildings; or is that figure not common knowledge?

God help the homeless in NYC if those old subway tunnels ever collapse.


Last phrase of first sentence: (none / 0) (#44)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:41:11 PM EST

a tad pissy. Why?


Maybe Because (none / 0) (#45)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:51:39 PM EST

Of this.

You seem to paint a black and white picture of Cuba, that is why I asked you about your personal experience. Most I know, save one person who will not step foot in Cuba as long as a Castro rules, have a mixed picture. Some good, and some bad.


You may safely assume if I wanted (none / 0) (#46)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:59:34 PM EST

to spread my personal experience, or lack thereof, around on this blog, I would do so. No need to cast aspersions. I don't have any input on what Cuba does re homelessness.


No Aspersions Cast (none / 0) (#47)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 06:08:00 PM EST

I got it that you do not want to share your Cuban experience here. And regarding your input on what Cuba does re homelessness I have no idea what you are talking about.

Perhaps my link was too cryptic for you. You asked why Jondee was a tad pissy, and I suggested that it may be because your point about building collapses is shadowed by a greater humanitarian problem in the US: homelessness. Cuba does not have any significant homelessness problem.


I think it is for Jondee to respond. (none / 0) (#48)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 06:12:46 PM EST

Sorry (none / 0) (#49)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 06:30:44 PM EST

It is fine for Jondee to respond, but his point was rather obvious.

Never heard about the routine building collapse in Cuba, so I guess I am not part of the common knowledge club either.

BTW- how many deaths are there annually from these collapses?


Moving on to Padres/Mets game. (none / 0) (#50)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 06:36:07 PM EST

: Oh Well (none / 0) (#51)
by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 07:14:26 PM EST

I am not a member of that club either. Your point is well taken regarding exclusivity. TTFN.

Exactly how is that different (none / 0) (#33)
by tokin librul on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:03:48 PM EST

from conditions in the USA?

Our elites are delighted to live here, and fear no intervention from their captive, bought-and-paid-for "government."

others, especially on the margins, live daily in fear that they will inadvertently run afoul of "the law."


At least we've got... (none / 0) (#34)
by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:33:06 PM EST

the space and the population to hide here in the US...Cuba is miniscule by comparison. The smaller the country and population the tighter the totalitarians can squeeze....I'll still take the US over Cuba for no other reason than it's easier to be free in a sneaky way due to the higher population and greater mass of territory...and there are lot more crumbs floating around to live on, quite nicely in fact.


It is my understanding this is a great (none / 0) (#39)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:43:44 PM EST

deal of undeveloped land in Cuba. But owned by the government.


: Owned by "the People" (none / 0) (#53)
by tokin librul on Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 11:38:33 AM EST

really...
but that is what is at the base of these latest 'liberalizing' moves: the Great Re-Arrangement, whereby all the reforms of the previous 50 years are overthrwon and gangsta capitalism takes over again...

It would promote liberty at home too... (none / 0) (#4)
by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:52:46 AM EST

I know I kinda resent being told I'm not allowed to visit a beautiful island not far off our coast for purely political reasons...I'm big on free travel.

If you want a trip to Cuba, you're going (none / 0) (#6)
by andgarden on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:54:09 AM EST

to pay for it pal!


Back to the Future!.... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:06:55 PM EST

well played andgarden:)


: Ding, Ding, Ding! (none / 0) (#16)
by andgarden on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:13:06 PM EST

I'm all for it (none / 0) (#9)
by bocajeff on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:02:39 PM EST

ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union. But I'm under no illusion that this will change anything. If I'm not mistaken, the rest of the democratic/capitalistic world has had open trade and travel and that hasn't done a whole lot...

: What it will do (none / 0) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:11:38 PM EST

is drop a policy that drives support to Cuba's autocratic regime, both internally and externally.
It will promote democracy in Cuba.

I thought this was political suicide. (none / 0) (#11)
by connecticut yankee on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:06:57 PM EST

Don't the cuban-american political groups oppose this? Or have things changed?

Not going to happen imo (none / 0) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:10:39 PM EST

But it is the right thing to do.


only in florida (none / 0) (#14)
by CST on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:10:58 PM EST

With a broader group of swing states, this may be less of an issue.

Also I believe younger cuban-americans do not feel as strongly about this as older cuban-americans. So the tide may be turning there as well, slowly.

However, regardless of whether it is the p.c. thing to do, it is the right thing to do.


Martinez (NJ) (none / 0) (#19)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:14:58 PM EST

you mean (none / 0) (#21)
by CST on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:26:09 PM EST

Menendez?

Yes, he is personally opposed, but does that mean that NJ won't vote for him unless he is opposed? Not so sure...


: Yes. Thanks. (none / 0) (#23)
by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:30:28 PM EST

interestingly, according to Wiki, Mendenez's parents left Cuba in 1953 due to their dislike of Batista regime.

Democracy for Cuba? Wadda Laugh! (none / 0) (#20)
by tokin librul on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:15:49 PM EST

They want to re-impose gangster Kapitalism on Cuba.

Democratization is, as always, the camouflage behind which the Banksters lurk, awaiting the chance to repossess all the national resources that they have been denied these last 50 years.

Democracy? Bwbaaaahahahahahaa...

It seems to me... (none / 0) (#27)
by Dadler on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:46:59 PM EST

...that if we can't do things as obviously right and relatively simple to accomplish as this, then how on earth, or any other planet, are we going to do things much more difficult and challenging, and that threaten our beloved economic and social paradigms?

Seriously, what year is this again?

I don't know enough to have informed opinion (none / 0) (#28)
by sj on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:11:18 PM EST

All I can say is that I once had a Cuban cigar. No way that should be contraband.

meant to read (none / 0) (#38)
by jondee on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:40:08 PM EST

money=speech democracy.

Hopefully, (none / 0) (#42)
by JRoy29 on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:11:08 PM EST

this will benefit the Cuban people.

More Than 48 yrs? (none / 0) (#52)
by Jeff Morris DeJaVu57 on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:22:26 PM EST

That's how long the U.S. has been using this ridiculous Embargo against the Cuban people. So how's it working? I say against the Cuban people because they pay the price for this policy, not the Castro Regime.

Just no more trying to promote Democracy by force. The Bu$hCo Democracy by force experiment in Iraq was a disaster. May our Nation never try anything that stupid, illegal, immoral..., ever again.