Monday Morning Open Thread

While I recognize Tiger is the greatest golfer of all time and I root for Lefty, could CBS' coverage of the Masters have been more embarrassingly fawning yesterday? Tiger never really had even an outside shot to win and after Mickleson took a 5 at the 12th, he was pretty much done too. There were 3 guys well ahead of them and it seemed as if CBS was rooting for them to fail. Really bad broadcasting. In the end, it was an anticlimactic finish, as Kenny Perry kicked away a 2 shot lead with 2 to play and Cabrera basically parred his way to victory. Pretty lousy tourney overall.

This is an Open Thread.

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    As to the Masters, what I caught of it (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by scribe on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:34:58 AM EST
    confirms what you say, though I think you are shortchanging Cabrera by just saying he "parred his way to victory."

    The par he got on 18 (the first time they played 18 yesterday) was mad-brilliant.  I mean, stonking his tee shot into the woods, landing at the base of the trunk of a massive tree and then getting even a decent lie out of his second shot was amazing in and of itself.  That he was able to par 18 then moreso.

    So, give Mr. Cabrera a little credit.  He earned it.

    His 2nd shot on 18 hit a tree and bounced onto the (none / 0) (#4)
    by steviez314 on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:44:13 AM EST
    fairway!  Better to be lucky than ....

    Spoken Like a True... (none / 0) (#18)
    by santarita on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:09:52 AM EST
    golfer.  Maybe the only difference between a pro golfer and me is that when I hit a tree the ball goes into the water.

    When I hit a tree... (none / 0) (#107)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 07:12:06 PM EST
    ...the ball is usually headed right back at me at an alarming rate of speed.  

    And for some strange reason, my ball is very attracted to trees--and water.  


    We need better golfballs. (none / 0) (#108)
    by rghojai on Tue Apr 14, 2009 at 02:45:55 AM EST
    I've been given some top-end balls, watched 'em disappear into woods and water just as fast as  the cheap ones... .

    Watched the Masters from a +7 time zone so specific details get hazy b/c it got well into the wee hours of Monday, but Woods and Lefty had a stretch of being on fire, getting mighty close to the lead, looking like one or both might keep making birdies... it was exciting--for the shots themselves and the possibilities--and they cooled off.

    Wanna say Woods was a serious long shot after the 15th.

    That aside, it struck me as exciting because how people handle pressure is a big part of the appeal. Sure, Cabrera got lucky off the tree, but he didn't let the to-the-trees shot get the better of him. Wondered if the outcome and Cabrera looking more relaxed, smiley had anything to do with it.

    Too, as one who has seen almost no American sports broadcasts in the last several months, it was striking to be reminded of how hyperbolic the announcers were. I could retire a rich man if I had a dollar for every "fantastic," "incredible," unbelievable," etc., uttered by the announcers.

    The contrast was all the more sharp because in recent months I've watched some top-level rugby, soccer and car racing with British and Irish announcers, heard the Grand National horse race on the BBC World Service.

    I have welcomed/will miss an appreciably more understated approach to announcing.  


    The people's economic stimulus package.... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:37:02 AM EST
    The DEA says domestic grow-ops have increased 60%...people ain't sitting waiting for bailouts, they're growing their way out of a sh*tty economy, and I wish them nothing but luck dodging the DEA and law enforcement...ain't no help like self-help.  

    A different sort of grass. (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:41:13 AM EST
    Padres vs. Mets tonight... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:44:21 AM EST
    home opener for the Mets at new Shea...on new grass:)

    I love ya but I hope your boys drop 3 straight:)


    How about Santana (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:52:42 AM EST
    calling out the left fielder? He's right buuuut, who gave up the single after the error?

    2 outs when the error occurred... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:58:05 AM EST
    so if Murph makes the routine play inning over, no chance for a base-hit.

    But I hear ya, that was out of character for Santana, and uncalled for...win as a team, lose as a team...plus he knows Murph is playing out of position and is a work in progress out in left.

    Frustration got the better of him I guess...he did pitch an absolute gem, as did the Marlin's hurler.


    Jet lag might get you the first one. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:16:50 AM EST
    Pads are far exceeding my expectations so far.

    Hey, how did your camping trip go? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:57:02 AM EST
    Both of my breeding pair got their herding certification.  My girl did just fabulous and I was so proud and it was all mother nature, didn't have a damned thing to do with me other than I feed her :)  The Peach Blossom Cluster was huge and this was my first go.  Next year I'm taking a golf cart if Josh is going!  One of my facebook friends whom I had never met in person until Friday ended up being one of the vendors selling doggy shampoos and she loaned me her flatbed cart thank God, and those were Josh's wheels.

    Lots of fun. We skipped Friday night (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:03:03 PM EST
    due to predicted rain (it didn't rain).  Saturday and Sunday were beautiful.  A quite memorable retirement party.  Now we are plotting a camping trip at the beach.  (But we should have set up our tent before the wind picked up.)  

    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:16:05 PM EST
    That your dog did so well at herding. My friends have an award winning Border Collie which they say knows everything there is to know on its own. Their job in training is just to not get in the way. The dog even knew the dog whistle signals first time around.

    The club that set up the herding arena (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 14, 2009 at 06:25:59 AM EST
    and ran the certification testing is of course all made up of people and dogs who whistle their way through everything.  The club's greats that were there that day were all border collies.  My fave was named Kate.

    Border collies own flyball too :) (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 14, 2009 at 06:28:15 AM EST
    both the sport of competition herding and flyball seem to have a high addiction factor for both dog and human :)  If I didn't have Joshua I fear what I would evolve into :)

    "Golf is a good way to ruin a walk." (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:49:48 AM EST

    As for watching golf on TV, um. . .

    "As for watching golf on TV, um. . . " (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:05:43 AM EST
    Great for taking a nap on a lazy Sunday afternoon, though (except for the loud commercials). The announcers talk softly and soothingly - not a lot of yelling going on.  Great way to doze off if you don't like golf.

    Have you ever played? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:51:42 AM EST
    It's great to play and if you play, you can enjoy watching it.

    Bad memories (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:56:13 AM EST
    My dad used to make me play, and I have no hand-eye coordination.

    Making any kid (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:59:26 AM EST
    do anything sports-like is dumb. All due respect to your dad.

    Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:02:05 AM EST
    I don't want to beat up on him too much, because he thought he was doing me a favor. But this is one of the many strains on our relationship.

    so that's one mistake I didn't make. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:03:57 PM EST
    I love to watch, if someone I like is playing (none / 0) (#23)
    by Amiss on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:19:26 AM EST
    I used to love to play, am no longer able to, tho I do get my putter out from time to time tho. I thought yesterday's coverage was fairly balanced and I disagree with you about Tiger and Mickelson, they both got close at one point and watching them struggle made for good golf for me. Of course it didnt hurt that the two guys I was rooting for came in first and second. While I believe Sergio came in at +1, if it had been different for "your pick" I feel you might have seen things through rosier glasses.

    No thanks, I'd rather be the beer girl (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:57:53 AM EST
    Then they even let you drive the cart.

    Quote: (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:21:18 PM EST
    This isn't productive (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by SOS on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:18:24 AM EST
    MOGADISHU, April 13 (Reuters) - Somali insurgents fired mortars toward U.S. congressman Donald Payne as he left Somalia on Monday after a rare visit by a U.S. politician to the anarchic Horn of Africa nation, police said.


    this is (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:27:36 AM EST
    Kill the Pirates

    The international right of self-defense would also justify an inspection and quarantine regime off the coast of Somalia to seize and destroy all vessels that are found to be engaged in piracy. These inspections could reduce the likelihood that any government will find itself engaged in a hostage situation such as the one that played out in recent days. Furthermore, the U.N. Security Council should prohibit all ransom payments. If the crew of an attacked ship were held hostage, the Security Council could authorize a military blockade of Somalia until the hostages were released.

    Cowardice will not defeat terrorism, nor will it stop the Somali pirates. If anything, continuing to meet the pirates' demands only acts as an incentive for more piracy.

    U.S. Military Considers Attacks on Somali Pirates

     April 13 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. military is considering attacks on pirate bases on land and aid for the Somali people to help stem ship hijackings off Africa's east coast, defense officials said.

    The military also is drawing up proposals to aid the fledgling Somalia government to train security forces and develop its own coast guard,


    But, what about (none / 0) (#30)
    by eric on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:41:14 AM EST
    simple bottom line (none / 0) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:46:51 AM EST
    the kidnap and kill people.  they still have many many hostages.
    asaic it is a no brainer.
    if they have issues let them stop kidnapping people and possibly the will be heard.
    till then.  no.

    Only one hostage has died... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:50:56 AM EST
    of all the hostages taken, and the circumstances around that death are fuzzy, or so I read somewhere.  

    if you have a family member (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:56:32 AM EST
    hostage that would not be very comforting.

    It wouldn't... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:16:43 PM EST
    but I'd be even more sick today if a loved one was held hostage after yesterdays shoot 'em up...that's no way to simmer down this situation.

    I could be wrong Capt., the gangsters who have overtaken the piracy movement may not accept a settlement of any kind for a cease-fire on piracy, but its worth a shot before fueling up the bombers...and it might get more Somali hearts and minds on our side in this thing, if they see the international set address the dumping and over-fishing in a meaningful way.


    well (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:48:19 PM EST
    it sounded, in that piece I posted about military action, that a big part of the plan was to get the locals involved.
    I would think that would be critical for any meaningful change in the situation.

    Drop bombs on land... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:58:26 PM EST
    and you lose the locals, imo.

    Show up with an enviromental clean-up crew and some cash settlements for fishermen who lost their livelyhood, you win even more locals.  


    How much dumping (none / 0) (#89)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:45:52 PM EST
    and over-fishing do you think is really going on now that the pirates rule the waters?

    I have no idea... (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:03:05 PM EST
    nobody wants to talk about it.

    Odd that all this alleged illegal dumping (none / 0) (#93)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:11:24 PM EST
    goes on in Somalia's own little piece of the ocean and not 100's or 1000's of miles away in international waters that make up, what, 99% of all the oceans? and that are very much less traveled, and much closer to the origin of the wastes that are alleged to be dumped...

    Details are sketchy... (none / 0) (#94)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:14:14 PM EST
    though I tend to think if the gripes of the Somalis were a load of bull, somebody would have debunked it now.  Instead, it is nearly ignored...kinda odd no?

    You think? (none / 0) (#95)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:23:30 PM EST
    You're assuming that a) it hasn't been debunked, enough, and b) if it hasn't, it must be true. And c) if it is true, then it's ok for them to steal and possibly injure or kill others.

    The country's a mess, from top to bottom, left to right, inside to out.

    Some there choose to steal, some don't.

    Those that do are wrong.

    I'm confident we won't agree on this.


    In a perfect world they're 100% wrong.... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:52:25 PM EST
    in an imperfect world it's a lot harder to figure out who is right and who is wrong.

    Thanks for the food for thought regardless...always appreciate being called out on my brand of bullsh*t.



    If these pirates were only attacking ships (none / 0) (#38)
    by Amiss on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:54:32 AM EST
    that were dumping in their waters or destroying their livlihoods of fishing, then I could sympathize, but that is not who they are attacking nor is that who they are holding from what I understand. I would be happy if the UN helped them in prosecuting those people and helping them levy fines against them. But when they take ships loaded with aid for their country among others, it takes away whatever credence they may have.

    Eric, not that link again (none / 0) (#51)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:21:46 PM EST
    Are you the one who keeps posting it in thread after thread?

    Please read your own link:

    Some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies.

    Then provide evidence that the guys who take ships and hostages and take ransoms in the millions are, uh, environmentalists.


    I have never (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by eric on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:30:39 PM EST
    linked to it before.  And I am not arguing that they are environmentalists.  The point of the article, I think, is that there are some very desperate people who have had their fishing grounds decimated.

    Just another side to the story.


    A side... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:40:38 PM EST
    the western media would like you to ignore.

    Well, I mainly read Western media (none / 0) (#70)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:56:05 PM EST
    and am seeing that story in lots of places.

    It looks like it needs to be run in Asian media.


    Yes, Somalia is in desperate straits. (none / 0) (#67)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:55:23 PM EST
    no doubt (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:24:43 PM EST
    but I suspect that if we think "nation building" in the middle east is a nightmare its only because we have not tried it in Africa yet.
    not saying that is not the answer, just saying I, and probably hardly anyone else has much of an idea how to go about it.
    on the other hand we could stop the piracy.

    Eye for an eye... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:43:08 AM EST
    leaves everyone blind...the pirates are already talking about slitting throats in retaliation to yesterdays action.  They still hold hostages awaiting ransom payments....wouldn't wanna be one of those cats right now.

    Remember this whole piracy craze started as retaliation for illegal dumpers and illegal fishing off the Somali coast...how about offering some restitution for that wrong, and if the pirates don't cool it after that, then go to war.  At the least we might get the support of the Somali people to root out the gangster pirates themselves...if we will admit they've got legit gripes and address them, that is.


    Fine, punish the countries that dumped (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:22:42 PM EST
    illegally -- while also punishing the pirates who are not taking ships and hostages in protest but are just, y'know, pirates.

    We're in agreement... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:38:46 PM EST
    where is the US?  where is the EU?  the Pacific Rim?

    Oh yeah, they like to pretend the "civilized" world is as pure as snow, and it's all the Somalis fault for not learning to enjoy getting pissed on.


    I love Cabrera (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Dadler on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:37:21 PM EST
    Picked him in the playoff, because he was just happy to be there after lucking into it.  Perry was tough to watch, just couldn't hold his swing together when he needed it most.  But Angel, bravo, I'll always remember his US Open win two years ago for the chain smoking nerves he fought off to win.  The green jacket needed some South American flavor anyway.

    Kenny Perry... (none / 0) (#62)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:47:10 PM EST
    ...plain and simple got worn down.  That happens when one reaches a certain age.  Only in my case, my swing gets better when I'm exhusted.

    Hope Cabrera doesn't get shunned at the club like the "Masters of the Universe".  First Tiger and now a South American--that's a whole lot of diversity for the Augusta National folks.


    Angel and Tiger (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Dadler on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:53:41 PM EST
    Those Augusta National Masters of the Universe are probably, as we speak, raiding the valium bottles of their lonely wives (or husbands, wink wink).

    BTD (none / 0) (#6)
    by bocajeff on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:45:09 AM EST
    I would rather watch Lefty and Tiger stumble around the course than Cabrera and Perry - as I'm sure most people would. It is, afterall, about commerce.

    So cover them (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:46:12 AM EST
    Just do not openly root for them and lie about them really being well positioned to win.

    Nantz was atrocious yesterday.


    Hm (none / 0) (#41)
    by Steve M on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:57:23 AM EST
    I was only half-watching the coverage but unless they were playing games with tape delay, at one point the leaders were at -11 and Mickelson was at -10 with Tiger at -9, with 2 or 3 holes still to play for the latter pairing.  So I think they did have a shot at at least one point.

    Must check. How did my man Ben (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:19:38 PM EST
    Curtis do?

    Who? (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Steve M on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:57:28 PM EST
    12 shots back, ESPN.com tells me.  Coincidentally, the exact same score - even par - as myself.

    Nope (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:29:18 PM EST
    You misunderstand Augusta then.

    When Tiger was "within 3 [not 2]" of 3 players (after Tiger birdied 16 and Perry made birdie at 12) - the 3 players still had 13 and 15 (easy birdie holes, every player in the top of the board birdied 15 and most birdied 13) to play and Tiger had no birdie holes left.

    Tiger's BEST level - -10, was 2 behind 3 players at the end.

    Those 3 players never cam close to finishing -10. hell, Perry was -14 after birdieing the 16th.

    The idea Tiger has a shot in this tourney was absurd.

    Mickleson COULD have had a real chance, but he blew it on 12 - taking a chance he did not need to take. Just a totally stupid attempt. After that he needed a miracle finish.

    He had a great shot a 15 (he missed a 4 footer for eagle.) He could have made a birdie at 16, but in reality he did not hit a great shot in. (Tiger did.) He had a shot at 17 for birdie, but missed a makeable putt.

    He had no shot at 18 for birdie and in fact made bogey.

    But the truth is he was done at 17 from having even a remote shot. He needed -12 at least. After 17 he had no shot at it.

    Tiger never had a shot a -12.  


    "Tiger never had a shot a -12. " (none / 0) (#77)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:27:16 PM EST
    No. The fact that he didn't do it, doesn't mean he couldn't have.

    That said, I completely agree with your overall premise, they should not have spent nearly as much time on Tiger as they did.

    Cabrerra got lucky, the other two choked. The Masters'll do that to ya.


    I'm With You BTD (none / 0) (#104)
    by CDN Ctzn on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:51:08 PM EST
    One of my biggest gripes with golf coverage today, whether on TV or in print is the ridiculous worship of Tiger Woods et al. The Master's coverage was just the latest example. If you looked at the publications (GOLF & Golf Digest), during his absence, it was like he was never gone! They gave more coverage to Woods than to active golfers who were winning tournaments!
    Good Lord. Yes, I will acknowledge that he is a great golfer, but he isn't the only golfer out there. What the hell is it with our media that they have to have someone to worship, whether in sports or politics? These are not "normal" guys we're talking about. The majority have gotten to where they are because they were privilidged in some way; yes, even Tiger. I would have liked to have taken my kid to the range every day and spend hours practicing and coaching, but at least three things got in the way;
    1. a life
    2. a job
    3. no room in the budget for green fees, practice balls, lessons, etc.
    I guess this is just another signpost on the road to the end of civilization.

    The same three things... (none / 0) (#106)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 07:05:57 PM EST
    ...that are conspiring to keep me off the Senior Tour in a few years!

    The all Tiger, all the time coverage does get old real fast.  But, I think there is the expectation that Tiger will get tired of the tour grind and retire after he shatters all the records in a few years.

    Who could blame him--loads of cash, a knockout wife and two young kids. Surgically repaired knees tend not to age well either.    

    They're milking the cash cow while the milking is good.


    Totally agree (none / 0) (#13)
    by abdiel on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:58:42 AM EST
    ESPN's postgame coverage was just as bad.  I guess they have to cover up a bad ending by going to the most popular players on tour.  Since it's the Master's, it doesn't sound very fitting if someone calls it like they see it and says "Angel Cabrera backed his way in to the green jacket".  Or admit that the whole tournament was disappointing, including Tiger and Lefty.

    Dog question. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:03:33 AM EST
    My brother and his girlfriend got a GSD puppy last year.  Now she's a year old and exhibiting dominance behavior and unwanted biting/guarding behavior.  Their previous dog (mutt) was mellow and not "guardy" at all.

    I'm thinking that they need to start some serious training before they have a real problem on their hands.  

    Problem #1
    The girl friend is the main caretaker and my brother is only home half the week.  She has zero experience with guard dogs and the dog seems intent on guarding her.  Sweet until she starts going for a bite when visitors hug the GF good bye.

    Problem #2
    Limited socialization.  Not zero, but socialization is critical for all dogs with guarding tendencies.  Otherwise the dog may begin to see every stranger as a threat.

    Problem #3
    The girl friend is a softie and may be part of the problem.  It's hard to tell, but often it's the human behavior that is as much the problem as the dog's behavior.

    I'm trying to figure out what advice to give them.  Tricky.

    Professional (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by eric on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:15:28 AM EST
    training for both the dog and the handler.  She needs to learn to control the dog.

    Also, make sure they have dog bite coverage on their insurance policy.  This dog sounds like a liability.


    Absolutely (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:30:01 AM EST
    This is a dangerous situation for them and for the dog.  If the dog bites somebody, they could get sued.  If it does it twice, the dog could be confiscated and euthanized.

    For the dog's sake and their own, they and the dog need serious professional training.  I'd say this is an emergency and they need to deal with it right away before something very bad happens.


    Socialization too (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by waldenpond on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:48:13 AM EST
    My dog would get over protective every spring due to being inside more in the winter and shorter walks.  I finally had to choke on the expense and take her to a dog sitter for time with other dogs.  It has made a big difference last year and I hope will continue this year.

    If they asked you for your advice, (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:17:17 AM EST
    give them all you've got.

    If they didn't, you might just make suggestions that sound great to them and encourage them to ask for more :)


    I asked how she was doing. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:51:27 AM EST
    They told me.  Sigh.  I was hoping for better news.

    I'll check with a dog behaviorist/trainer that I know for recommendations for trainers where they live.  The dog isn't a problem yet, but it certainly looks like she could become one.


    That sounds like a door is wide open (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 03:49:34 PM EST
    for any advice you can give :)

    Oy (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:19:36 AM EST
    Military Tracy is the one who will know, but from your description it seems that the GF is the one that needs training the most. The dog appears to be the alpha, which is a train wreck waiting to happen.

    Hiring a trainer seems imperative at this point.


    Couldn't agree more (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by sj on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:31:25 AM EST
    Some dog breeds are not for the casual owner.

    that breed is pretty well known for that behaviour (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:37:19 AM EST
    once my mother saved a stray Shepherd who was a great dog but he became so protective of her that he had to be put down because they were afraid he would hurt the grandkids.
    I hope this does not turn out the same way.
    I would suggest taking whatever action they can sooner rather than later to prevent it.

    Here's a couple ideas: (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by scribe on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:37:30 AM EST
    Whatever the owners do, they have to be consistent.  All the time.  That seems to be the message of this book.

    To effectively communicate with your dog, you have to make the effort to understand the dog's language - it's more body language than anything else.  This is an excellent book.

    A couple things to remember about dogs:

    1.  Dogs live in the present moment.  Right NOW.  If they do something and you wait even a second to reprimand them, they'll think you're reprimanding them not for the thing that was wrong, but for whatever it was they were doing at the instant the discipline came down.  Better to ignore bad behavior than to discipline late.

    2.  A lot of aggressive behavior or inappropriate behavior results from the dog being all wound up and not tired.  Take long walks and tire the dog out.

    For what it's worth, yesterday I walked my dog (a setter, notorious for go-all-day energy) about 7 miles:  3 in the morning and 4 in the afternoon, plus a good hour cumulative time wrestling, running, ball-chasing and hanging out in the various dog parks around town.  And that was after about 5 miles on Saturday.  She behaved excellently around the house all weekend, slept very well last night and, after a walk of about 2 1/2 miles this morning, will be sleeping it off all day.

    3.  Dogs, when socializing among other dogs, will develop a heirarchy and behave accordingly.  Any number of times in the dog park, it has happened that someone else's dog will start getting pushy or aggressive toward her.  I tell the other owner I'm not worried, that my dog will draw a line and enforce it for herself.  And she does.

    People have to recognize that same principle - and that means a consistent "no" with appropriate punishment in the event the dog jumps up or humps a person.

    1.  IMHO, the most appropriate and effective punishment the dog can get is to be separated from the situation and ignored.  Dogs are social, pack animals, and to be excluded from the pack is very hard on them, but also fair.  The owner's doing the excluding reminds the dog just who is boss, too.  Again, as stated above, the disciplining has to be immediate, consistent, and fair.

    2.  Dogs are even better at playing people off against each other than kids are at working their parents.  

    3.  Positive reinforcement, even as simple as a skritch behind the ears, for good behavior is a much more effective modality than punishment.  Once you have established yourself in the dominant, respected position vis-a-vis the dog, looking the dog in the eye while giving positive reinforcement is very effective.  Just be aware that looking the dog in the eye is something which should only be done once the heirarchy is pretty-well established;  it's a very dominant move.

    4.  You want to reward good behavior - that way you get more good behavior.  But be judicious with the treats - you can get better results with lavishing a little praise and physical affection than with treats because the dog will respond appropriately to affection.  If the only positive reinforcement you use is treats, the dog (a) will only respond to treats and (b) may get rammy and insistent about getting treats.

    I'm betting the one partner is either a softie (who doesn't understand that dogs play rough) or is uncertain and therefore less than fully confident in their own position in the heirarchy, vis-a-vis the dog.  Dogs pick that up in an instant, and will push as far as they can get away with.

    Hey, taking a break from the road (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:49:10 AM EST
    In my opinion eric is correct about the gf needing training herself.  The times I have seen this situation manifest in a dog this young, it has been a joined emotional payoff for the dog and the person as the person "feels" protected and feels safe with the dog around, dogs are so sensitive to how their people feel.  I would almost be willing to place a large bet that at some point in the gf's life she has been physically assaulted.  Crating overly protective dogs when you are at home with them is very beneficial too.  They can begin to understand that they are a part of this system but it isn't their full time job to defend this system.  They need a trainer with experience in the guarding herding breeds the sooner the better.  And this isn't a PetsMart clicker training class thing, but often PetsMart seems to be the first place people go for training help and they drop +180 bucks and a challenging problem like this just isn't covered.  They just aren't this hands on caliber of training.  Most people that love the breeds and do this for enjoyment and not just money are usually cheaper than PetsMart too.  I would shy away from any trainers wanting big bucks, and I would call local vets for some good and well meaning trainers in the area or their local kennel club.

    Definitely a job (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:58:48 AM EST
    for the professionals.  The GF is trying, but I get the impression she has no way to know which things she is doing right or wrong.  She's probably doing some things correctly, but the dominance issue is trickier than "Sit" or "Stay".  

    Some trainers do "growly" dog clases (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:47:05 PM EST
    where's it's  about aggressive behaviors, but you get tons of info on other things also like handling, diet, exercise, etc. It's about the whole dog. My friend went to one and it REALLY made an impression on her. Huge improvement in her dog also! She had much more control and the dog is MUCH calmer etc when I visit. And when I say control, I mean casual voice control. I used to take a frozen turkey neck over with me to get her settled and distracted, lol!~

    The classes/workshops are generally very small and taught by behaviorists and they focus on each individual dog's issues and you work sep and in the group. The one my friend went to was a weekend workshop on a ranch in PA.


    'the ostensibly malefic.' (none / 0) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:49:46 AM EST
    for the record I am all for leaving the "war on terra" crap far behind. but this still made me laugh:

    Finally, in yet another determined effort to disassociate itself from the bellicose imagery favored by the Bush administration, the State Department and the Joint Chiefs of Staff will no longer employ the term "bad guys" to describe al Qaeda.

    "It's juvenile, it's demeaning, and it's judgmental," says a high-ranking administration spokesman. "From now on, the bad guys will be referred to as 'the ostensibly malefic.' We'll get back to you when we have a new term for 'the good guys.'"

    Are you serious? (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:22:48 PM EST
    referring to individual acts of terror . . . (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:51:56 PM EST
    . . . as "man-caused disasters."

    seems like trying a little to hard.  but as I said, Im all for losing the "war on terra".


    Was the extermination of the three (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:14:09 PM EST
    Somali pirates Obama's first national security test?  I've seen that headline and thought:  huh?

    um, yeah. (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:20:54 PM EST
    Bad Guys (none / 0) (#54)
    by sj on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:24:49 PM EST
    is my term of choice for the Bush administration.  I also kind of like BFEE (Bush Family Evil Empire) first heard at Avedon Carol's Sideshow, but Bad Guys seems to say it all for me.

    Ummm . . . really?! (none / 0) (#85)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:02:19 PM EST
    Who comes up with this sh!t?

    I do agree with the war on terra crap, but really, can't they come up with something better? Or at least something that works better in the average sentence, lol!~

    "In overseas news today, the ostensibly malefic caused a man-made disaster at a market in Baghdad. With the recent escalation of man-made disasters and ostensibly malefic activities, the ending of the [insert new term for war here, I forgot it!] is becoming unclear"  


    I think you just got (none / 0) (#90)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:48:01 PM EST
    duped by The Onion.

    Turns out it's via the WSJ (none / 0) (#91)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:58:52 PM EST
    Ha,ha! (none / 0) (#98)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:15:51 PM EST
    Some of that's pretty funny.  Did the OP read down far enough to get to this graph:

    "Taliban announced that it will no longer refer to its favorite method of murder as "beheadings," but will henceforth employ the expression "cephalic attrition." "Flayings" -- a barbarously exotic style of execution that has been popular in this part of the world since before the time of Alexander -- will now be described as "unsolicited epidermal reconfigurations." In a similar vein, lopping off captives' arms will now be referred to as "appendage furloughing," while public floggings of teenaged girls will from here on out be spoken of as "metajudicial interfacing."


    Once you start invoking God... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Dadler on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:41:36 PM EST
    ...as controlling anything in war, all rational bets are off.

    Sad and tragic, as any death of one's child is.  His loss is immmense, his son did die for something, or he never would have been there in the first place.

    Lego block Jesus: (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:42:36 PM EST

    Legoland on my brain after seven hours on site Saturday.

    I saw that earlier (none / 0) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:56:05 PM EST
    when I saw the headline I was not expecting anything quite so elaborate.  I guess I was expecting something more like the Brick Testament guys.

    Ha. Crude. (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:12:53 PM EST
    Brick Testament is awsum (none / 0) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:20:17 PM EST
    and its huge.  you should look at the whole thing.
    I cant really tell if it is supposed to be satire but whatever it is there was some serious work involved.

    Reminds me of claymation. (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:29:26 PM EST
    So much work.

    speaking of claymation (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:36:52 PM EST
    I saw this over the weekend:


    about Art Clokey.  what a weird dude. remember Davy and Golaith?  know where its creator met his wife?

    give up?

    a nudist colony.


    Davey & Goliath.... (none / 0) (#88)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:40:04 PM EST
    That's classic...a nudist colony?  Who knew that was the christian thing to do, Davey?

    well (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:27:33 PM EST
    to be fair he described it as a "clothing optional retreat".
    we report you decide.

    What do you do (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:51:34 PM EST
    with a catcher who is on pace to bat .110 with 50 HRs?

    Heard that one on the radio last week, it's probably no longer true but close enough.

    The one thing I can say is - we have an awesome young pitching staff and it's not all Theo's fault.

    But yea, Tek is not the future, he is the past.  I hope he stays healthy long enough to train a replacement.  Or even come back in a coaching spot.

    baseball joke non-sequitor (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Dadler on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:55:53 PM EST
    I'm reminded of the joke that still makes me laugh 25 years later: what do you do to an elephant with three balls?  You walk him and pitch to the rhino.

    Forgive me, I beg of you.


    I'd say.... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:29:25 PM EST
    a little to early to worry, I don't think Ryan Church is gonna hit the 162 doubles he was on pace for prior to yesterday's game:)

    But yeah, Tek's rapidly declining average is cause for concern...hopefully for your sake he can turn it around and approach respectability, or at least the Mendoza line, before the season really gets going.  


    I'll take (none / 0) (#81)
    by CST on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:33:27 PM EST
    the 50 HRs!

    Hey, to me that is the sign of someone who should be batting 9th... not gonna hit often, but when he does it's out of the park.


    You American Leaguers... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:23:49 PM EST
    with your bastard version of baseball...everybody knows the pitcher bats ninth in the proper game:)

    Pads: leadoff home run. Go Pads. (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 06:23:18 PM EST
    Padres have catcher Blanco who (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 01:33:08 PM EST
    is hear as mentor for Hundley.  Blanco hasn't been hitting and ball but then--a home run!.

    Harold Ford (none / 0) (#87)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 02:32:45 PM EST
    god bless... (none / 0) (#101)
    by desertswine on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:54:59 PM EST
    hmmmm (none / 0) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 04:58:46 PM EST
    cause of death not known.  pretty young for natural causes.

    Taliban shoot dead female politician (none / 0) (#103)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 05:41:35 PM EST
    who fought for women's rights
    A female provincial official known for fighting for women's rights has been gunned down in southern Afghanistan, following a day of fighting in the region that left 22 militants dead, officials said.