home

It's Not A Matter Of Trust

Chris Bowers argues that Billy Joel got it right about politics - it's a matter of trust. I completely disagree - it is a matter of whether you agree or disagree with the announced policies of the Obama Administration and why. Trust has nothing to do with it. Chris writes:

[F]aith in the bailout plan really isn't a question of analytic and scholastic ability . . It is simply a matter of trust in the people executing the plan.

This is really really really the wrong approach to take on any policy issue. This abdicates the process of actually thinking about an issue and making up your own mind as best you can. Let me give you an example - health care reform. I never have written on the subject in detail because I have never taken the time to form my own opinion on the subject. I never advocated for or against mandates or single payer and the like because I was too lazy or too stupid to take the time to form an opinion on the subject. But whether I "trusted" the advocates of particular positions would certainly not be the decisive criteria of my views on any issue. If your position is guided solely by "who you trust," then there is no thinking being done by you. Some people treat issues this way. I can never accept that approach. Bowers advocates it here. And that is wrong. More . . .

Bowers cites Matt Yglesias for this proposition:

The more I’ve followed the back-and-forth on this, the less actual disagreement about the facts I think I’m hearing. What the critics are saying is that Geithner’s plan couldn’t possibly recapitalize the banks in an adequate way unless it was implemented as a horrible giveaways. What the defenders are saying is that if you implement the plan the correct way, it will be a helpful step toward resolving the situation at a time when it’s difficult to imagine the congress appropriating the volume of extra funds necessary to full resolve the issue.

Ultimately, these two points aren’t in conflict with one another. They’re different interpretations of the situation that are based on different assumptions about the competence and good will of the people involved. If you assume that the key policymakers are smart people doing their best, then you’re going to line up with Spence. You’ll predict a degree of success from the Geithner Plan followed by the need for additional action. And you’ll be concerned that over-the-top criticism of Geithner and the Treasury Team is going to undermine the political support that will be needed for further action. But if you assume that the key policymakers are inept, or unduly under the sway of big finance, you’ll see that a sound implementation of the Geithner Plan wouldn’t generate the needed volume of money, so the plan “must” be for a large giveaway. But either way, I think there’s actually agreement about both the nature of the financial situation and the fact that the implementation details matter a great deal here.

I take it Bowers agrees rather than "trusts" Yglesias' interpretation here. Assuming that is so, I disagree with BOTH Bowers and Yglesias. It does not come down to whether:

If you assume that the key policymakers are smart people doing their best, then . . . [y]ou’ll predict a degree of success from the Geithner Plan followed by the need for additional action. And you’ll be concerned that over-the-top criticism of Geithner and the Treasury Team is going to undermine the political support that will be needed for further action. But if you assume that the key policymakers are inept, or unduly under the sway of big finance, you’ll see that a sound implementation of the Geithner Plan wouldn’t generate the needed volume of money, so the plan “must” be for a large giveaway.

In fact, it strikes me as a ridiculous description. I think most everyone thinks President Obama, Secretary Geithner, Lawrence Summers, et al., are not only smart, but incredibly smart. I think most everyone thinks that President Obama, Secretary Geithner, Summers, et al, are not only doing their best and well intentioned, they have significant selfish motivations for wanting the best result - they want to look good in the end - in the history books.

Some of us think the policies they have rolled out are simply incredibly wrong headed on any number of levels.

Consider just Yglesias' short hand for how supporters and critics line up on the Geithner Plan. Yglesias writes that supporters of the plan "predict a degree of success from the Geithner Plan followed by the need for additional action [and are] be concerned that over-the-top criticism of Geithner and the Treasury Team is going to undermine the political support that will be needed for further action." Is that the best a supporter of the Geithner Plan can say? That it is inadequate? Is that what we think Obama and Geithner think?

Yglesias says critics of the Geithner Plan "see that a sound implementation of the Geithner Plan wouldn’t generate the needed volume of money, so the plan “must” be for a large giveaway." I think that is right up to a point but the criticisms go further - that even if done with the proper amount of capitalization the Geithner Plan is the wrong policy for a number of reasons. Paul Krugman describes one of them today:

[T]h[e] era of boring banking was also an era of spectacular economic progress for most Americans. After 1980, however, as the political winds shifted, many of the regulations on banks were lifted — and banking became exciting again. Debt began rising rapidly, eventually reaching just about the same level relative to G.D.P. as in 1929. And the financial industry exploded in size. By the middle of this decade, it accounted for a third of corporate profits.

. . . Only a few people warned that this supercharged financial system might come to a bad end. Perhaps the most notable Cassandra was Raghuram Rajan of the University of Chicago, a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund, who argued at a 2005 conference that the rapid growth of finance had increased the risk of a “catastrophic meltdown.” But other participants in the conference, including Lawrence Summers, now the head of the National Economic Council, ridiculed Mr. Rajan’s concerns.

And the meltdown came. Much of the seeming success of the financial industry has now been revealed as an illusion. (Citigroup stock has lost more than 90 percent of its value since Mr. Weill congratulated himself.) Worse yet, the collapse of the financial house of cards has wreaked havoc with the rest of the economy, with world trade and industrial output actually falling faster than they did in the Great Depression. And the catastrophe has led to calls for much more regulation of the financial industry.

But my sense is that policy makers are still thinking mainly about rearranging the boxes on the bank supervisory organization chart. They’re not at all ready to do what needs to be done — which is to make banking boring again.

(Emphasis supplied.) Now to what does Krugman attribute this attitude from policymakers?

Part of the problem is that boring banking would mean poorer bankers, and the financial industry still has a lot of friends in high places. But it’s also a matter of ideology: Despite everything that has happened, most people in positions of power still associate fancy finance with economic progress.

(Emphasis supplied.) Krugman is not saying that President Obama, Secretary Geithner, Summers, et al, are not incredibly smart and well intentioned, he is saying they are wrong. Their "ideology" regarding the financial industry is wrong. It so happens I think Krugman is wrong in some of this analysis - I'll save that for another post - but the important point here is that it is not a matter of trust for Krugman on whether he agrees or disagrees with the Geithner Plan, it is a matter of thinking it through and deciding that he thinks the Geithner Plan is the wrong policy.

That is the way we should do it, to our own meager abilities. Judge the policies - not whether you trust or distrust the policymaker.

Speaking for me only

< Late Night: Sister Morphine | Arguing For Newspapers As Quote Agreggators >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    My problem is (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 08:40:49 AM EST
    I think Obama is inept, and Geithner and Summers not well-intentioned.

    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 08:55:28 AM EST
    and I am not convinced that they are incredibly smart.  Bush got a MBA from Harvard, is he incredibly smart? Summers thinks girls can't do math and Geithner is continuing in many areas Paulson's example.  As Forest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

    But oh my, that creative class is really on it...sounding a lot like Bush's most ardent supporters who believed God chose him and the rest of us should just follow unquestioningly.

    Parent

    I think I am not smart (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:02:32 AM EST
    for including a discussion of whther the policymaklers are "smart."

    It does not matter whether we think they are smart, what matter is if we think the policy they are forwarding are smart.

     

    Parent

    that is true (none / 0) (#9)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:13:41 AM EST
    what is most important is whether we agree with policy and why.  We are NOT smart if we chose not to think for ourselves.

    Parent
    If we're supportive based on "trust" (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by hookfan on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:54:34 AM EST
    then what's the need for accountability or transparency? Heck, what's the need for democracy when you can just trust those who place themselves in positions of authority? Why even vote when one can just trust those in authority to decide among themselves who will rule and in what way?

    Parent
    Some people only want a (none / 0) (#31)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 11:24:50 AM EST
    quarterly report and others want to participate in the decision-making process in this democracy.  

    I think it is interesting how many people seem to feel that citizens of this country only have a right to express their aspirations and their vision for this country at the ballot box.  

    Interesting that many can't accept that there are going to be people who will advocate for policies they wish to see enacted - and that some of those policies people want will not always be in line with what the politicians are putting forth at a given time.

    Parent

    Simple answers to simple questions (none / 0) (#37)
    by lambert on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 04:32:56 PM EST
    Again:
    If we're supportive based on "trust" then what's the need for accountability or transparency?

    None.

    Next question! We have our leader, so what's your problem?

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 08:42:02 AM EST
    that was an interesting read from Bowers. One of the things I saw there was that he completely had a blind spot when it came to Obama like many others. His support was based on Obama's supposed opposition to the war from the beginning and extrapolated that onto Obama's other policies.

    When it comes to trust, it seems a lot of people don't realize that it has to be earned by the candidate not freely given.

    He wants to apply pressure I guess but the thing is people like him never held Obama accountable for anything during the primaries and during the G.E. No one ever threatened to withhold their vote, their money or their activism that I know of when Obama rolled them under the bus. The time when Obama really could've been responsive to people like Bowers has passed. He's made it to the WH. Why should he care now?

    i have no clue who (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by cpinva on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:10:20 AM EST
    chris bowers is, but i have some wonderfully undervalued shares of stock in AIG i'd like to sell him.

    trust me, they're undervalued.

    The economy = Tinkerbelle? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by tokin librul on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:12:27 AM EST
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

    What kind of an "economy" depends on people clapping and believing to keep the little light flickering?

    Me? (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:14:14 AM EST
    I think Obama, Geithner, Summers, et al are incredibly smart.  I do not, however, [i]trust[/i] that they necessarily have our best intentions at heart.  First and foremost, the job is to get Obama re-elected in 2012 and to stay in power (they all do it when they get to that level - Republicans and Democrats alike). Their moneyed friends have to do well to make that happen. If something good happens for the little people along the way, then that is just gravy.

    Bower's faith is touching (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by kmblue on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:14:33 AM EST
    on this holiday weekend.

    Try reading Bowers's whole post (none / 0) (#24)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:53:25 AM EST
    His post is a lengthy treatise on why he does not trust Obama.

    Parent
    Sure (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 10:04:49 AM EST
    But I personally am not interested in whether anyone trusts or distrusts Obama (unless, as Stevie points out, it is trust regarding the competence to carry out a policy) - that is my point.

    It is NOT a matter of trust.

    Parent

    I actually largely (none / 0) (#34)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 01:59:04 PM EST
    agree with you on that, and I find the whole Bowers post and comments to it over at OL to be kinda like arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin.

    (I corrected the commenter above only because I don't think it advances anything when people feel free to characterize what somebody else thinks without actually reading what they think.)

    I would only say that it seems to me reflexive mistrust is just as much a substitute for thinking as reflexive trust, and I see an enormous amount of the former on the blogs on the economic/financial issue. (Note; Not talking about you, BTD.  It's clear your opinions on all this, whether I find them convincing or not, are based entirely on your understanding of the facts of the situation.)

    Parent

    I think it's a combination of things (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by steviez314 on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:19:14 AM EST
    Economic policy is not provable like a physical law.  Even  history is not a guide, since there are too few observations.  Likewise we can't just run some lab experiments.

    So it's really just opinion as to whether a policy is "smart" or "not smart" (although some opinions are more expert than others, if that really has any meaning in a once-every-80-years crisis).

    Yet, there is a third choice.  That is--the policy might work, has a fair chance to work, maybe even has a higher probability of working than some other policy, IF implemented correctly.  And it's implementation that can be trusted on or not.

    stevie (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:22:47 AM EST
    you seem to think for yourself. I have no quibble with your approach and indeed, you have proven me wrong on many an issue.

    But here you miss the point of my post - my objection to abdicating your own personal thought process.

    bowers agrees with me on the Geithner Plan in that he does not support it. How he got there is objectionable to me.

    Parent

    I certainly agree with you that thinking and (none / 0) (#20)
    by steviez314 on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:36:17 AM EST
    reality are paramount.

    My only point was that even the best policy can be poorly implemented and thus fail.  So even if I think a policy is "smart", I need to trust it to be implemented correctly.

    Similarly, sometimes the answer, after much analysis, as to whether a policy is smart is "beats me."  It doesn't sell newspapers, or get cable ratings, but uncertainty is a valid opinion.  And that's where your "trust" in implementation can help you decide whether or not to support the policy.

    Parent

    That's a good point (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:40:37 AM EST
    But it was not Bowers' point on "trust."

    Parent
    excellent post, BTD (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by kempis on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:20:49 AM EST
    Thank you. I hope that Bowers and Yglesias and others consider your points because you describe how a "reality-based community" is supposed to assess policies and ideas: on the evidence.

    We've been stuck in Iraq for six years at a cost of trillions of dollars and, thus far, almost 5000 lives. Beyond the lives lost, we have thousands and thousands of physically and emotionally disabled troops returning from that unnecessary war.

    We got to Iraq because the majority of our people had faith in the competence and good intentions of George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Dick Cheney (and yeah it hurts to add Powell to the list, but he tragically earned a place on it with his error-ridden, dishonest report before the UN).

    The end result of "just trust 'em" may be an economic equivalent to the Iraq War. When an administration gives policy-making to ideologues, people who think that the facts will somehow conform to their cherished notions, then we have a problem.

    While Summers and Geithner may not be ideologues (maybe they are; maybe they aren't--I don't know), they do seem to share a philosophy and vision that has already been called into question because their notions (deregulations, credit default swaps, etc.) helped us get into the goddawful mess we're in. This does not inspire confidence in me.  

     Obama had said his administration would welcome and consider divergent points of view. Unfortunately, that seems not to be the case concerning the biggest crisis facing his administration (and all of us) immediately: the economy.

    You said: (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:27:00 AM EST
    Obama had said his administration would welcome and consider divergent points of view.

    Obama's word is no good. It doesn't matter what his rhetoric is. You have to watch his actions.

    Parent

    yep (none / 0) (#21)
    by kempis on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:36:31 AM EST
    when I read this I hear wah wah wah (none / 0) (#18)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:25:19 AM EST
    "Obama had said his administration would welcome and consider divergent points of view."

    It is the kind of hopey changy talk that leaves me cold.

    Parent

    Trust But Verify... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by santarita on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 11:11:56 AM EST
    Trust in the people running the government does matter in terms of being able to trust that they are not actively trying to deceive us or that they are pursuing some hidden agenda that is contrary to the public good.  At this point, I trust but not blindly.  

    If they are trustworthy but pursuing the wrong course of action, the trust factor become fairly irrelevant.  I'm not sure that Obama, Geithner, et al are trustworthy or pursuing the right course of action.  I need to see more facts.

    But here is a contra example (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 08:23:16 AM EST
    I "trust" Obama on trade and discount all the "tough talk" on NAFTA and whatnot. I trust that he is playing a political game on that. One that leads to the policy I prefer - free trade.

    But here you are (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by dk on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:09:46 AM EST
    deciding to ignore what he's saying and focus on what he's doing (i.e. despite his campaign promises, he is taking no action to hamper free trade).

    Whereas Bowers et al. are deciding to ignore what he's doing, and focus on (and "trust") what he's saying.

    I, for one, am often struck by the fascination of the "creative class" (and, demographically though not in spirit I suppose I belong to it so I feel I can be critical of them) with rhetoric.  Educated people can become obsessed with words and method of argument, so I guess it's easy for them to start valuing rhetoric more than actions.  I try to focus on what politicians do rather than what they say.  It's often not easy, of course, since the issues are often complex, and since politicians often try so hard to mask their actions with their rhetoric.  But it still seems like a worthwhile endeavor.

    Parent

    I am curious (none / 0) (#22)
    by reslez on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:37:56 AM EST
    what leads you to support free trade and how global wage arbitrage factors into your analysis. Do you agree or disagree that free trade will inevitably lead to lower salaries and a lower standard of living here in the U.S.? Further, do you agree or disagree that free trade benefits regimes with no labor protections and no environmental protections?

    Parent
    Many do (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 10:14:48 AM EST
    find it acceptable that the poor be uplifted by the wealthier doing with less.  We have a progressive tax system with a goal of having the wealthier pay more for the good of all.  As we are forced into a world economy, it is demanded that we go with less.

    I do not agree we have a free market system.  Never have for many reasons.  

    We 'free trade' with countries that subsidize education and industry.  We 'free trade' on an unequal field.

    We 'free trade' by forcing taxpayers to subsidize the R&D of Corporations.  They refuse to innovate and invest in themselves and then the taxpayer is required to bail out a corporation that would fail in a 'free market' system.

    We 'free trade' by refusing to label products so that the consumer in the 'free trade' system is not allowed to decide which corporation should fail through our product selection.

    I would prefer the term 'free trade' be dumped.  That is NOT our system.

    Parent

    that's too big an issue for (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 10:06:24 AM EST
    a comment reply.

    I have written on trade often - particularly back at daily kos.

    Ironically, I had many an ugly fight over it with Toque de Ville, now the bete noir of FPers at daily kos.

    Parent

    One that leads to the policy I prefer - free trade (none / 0) (#12)
    by tokin librul on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:14:38 AM EST
    Yeah, 'free trade' has been so good for us.

    part from that great sucking sound of USer industrial jobs and facilities going south...

    what would be the solution? (none / 0) (#16)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 09:21:38 AM EST
    protectionism where our ability to sell anything at an affordable price would have tanked the economy anyway?
    There are in my opinion several things that should have been done ALONG with free trade that were not done....regulations in place that would have made US companies more responsible to our citizens.  But hindsight is... well you know.
    The thing is, what do we do NOW?  People can moan all they like about how Clinton or Reagan put some policy in place that caused this or that bad outcome.  However the people leading now need to come up with solutions that will work now.  It is a different year, a different time in history with different circumstances than we had in 1992 or 1980. Get to work and do what needs to be done now, or let someone else lead.

    Parent
    Tariff protections aren't a bad thing (none / 0) (#39)
    by tokin librul on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:16:33 AM EST
    per se.

    It was how the country supported itself for more tha 150 years.

    Folks like Thom Hartmann are advocates of higher tariffs, to protect USer industry.

    Parent

    I agree with your disagreement (none / 0) (#29)
    by andgarden on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 10:28:32 AM EST
    The point in that post where Bowers quoted M. Y. and agreed just stopped me in my tracks. I thought "no, it's about whether you think the policy is right!"

    Indeed, I would go further to say that Bower's approach here has been responsible for 90% of the problems with the leftosphere over the last few years. With politicians, trust is utterly irrelevant. Substance and policy are all that matters.

    It's why I think the implication that Dorthy Samuels makes in her Editorial Observer piece of Kirsten Gillibrand is exactly wrong. She turns up her nose at the suggestion that we ought to care mostly about the fact that "Gillibrand has consistently favored tough laws to regulate tobacco as a member of Congress." when considering the Senator's record on Tobacco. But I would argue that the public voting record is probably the only one we should care about, for exactly the same reasons that we don't care about Obama's history so much, we care about the substance of his policy today.

    Mostly agree (none / 0) (#35)
    by joanneleon on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 02:03:59 PM EST
    but I do believe that trust is a factor.  The reason for that is that much of the time, policies and legislations aren't detailed enough to predict exactly how they will play out, and because things like implementation and enforcement are always a factor.  The TARP program was a prime example of that.  

    Parent
    Interesting post (none / 0) (#32)
    by Faust on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 12:36:42 PM EST
    The question of trust is intuitively appealing because, in the end, this is how most people "think" most of the time. It goes back to the "team jerseys" politics, which is itself a phenomenon that is a result of how people deal with a) the enormous ammount of information that there is to be consumed and b) the fact that there is only so much information that any individual can develop a sufficient level of expertise to analyze in a thorough way.

    If one is confronted by a topic that one is unsure about, because one has not had the time/interest/ability to think it through, then what is one to do? One uses a "thought prosthesis", an already exsiting ready made thought form so that one can use to make up one's mind about whatever issue is at hand. Political parties and their attendant experts serve this function. Hmmm I don't know what I think about that: I'll go read/listen to my favorite blogger, columnist, poltical bulletin, TV commentator that I "trust" and from there I will derive my opinion. And these authorities are themselves pushing views that derive from the mother of all thought prostheses: ideology.

    Bowers use of trust and his subsequent analysis is actually not that far from Krugman's in some respect. When Bower's writes:

    For example, it isn't difficult to find Nobel laureates, distinguished, progressive blog-friendly economics Ph.D.s, and even people who saw the financial crisis coming who think that the Obama administration's Wall Street bailout plan is a good idea that will probably work. At the same time, it isn't difficult to find Nobel laureates, distinguished, progressive blog-firendly economics PhD.s, and people who saw the financial crisis coming who think the Obama administration's bailout plan is a bad idea. As such, faith in the bailout plan really isn't a question of analytic and scholastic ability, having clean hands on the financial crisis, or whether or not someone comes from an elite world of Villagers. It is simply a matter of trust in the people executing the plan.

    Essentially Bower's is saying this: Anyone who would like to argue from authority (i.e. who does not have their own expertise to argue from) can find well vetted experts to use for material to bolster an argument for or against the Obama administration's plan. THEREFORE, it comes down to whether or not you trust that Obama et al are "good" enough (in the broadest possible sense) to "do the right thing." But what does trust mean here?

    We can derive the answer fromthe reasons he does not "trust" Obama. Most of these reasons can be boiled down to this: Obama should not be trusted because there is significant evidence that his ideology is not progressive, or is unduly influenced by non-progressive people/institutions/historical practices. In other words there is good evidence that he is "not one of us" and therefore he should not be trusted to puruse policies that ultimately favor the ideological principles that "we," the progressive flank ultimately favor. This is specifically called out in reason to distrust #4:

    When I hear "let's get beyond ideology and partisanship," it doesn't mean "reach out, sit down, and have a good faith discussion." Instead, it means "let's cave to Republicans on economic issues, foreign policy issues, and gay rights." I just don't trust Democrats who use language like that. Twenty times burned, thirty times shy, I suppose.

    In other words, "lets get beyond ideology" is a mask for "let us continue with the current status quo ideology and pretend that it does not itself constitute an ideology."

    Would Bowers disagree with Krugman when he writes:

    Part of the problem is that boring banking would mean poorer bankers, and the financial industry still has a lot of friends in high places. But it's also a matter of ideology: Despite everything that has happened, most people in positions of power still associate fancy finance with economic progress.

    I don't think so. In fact I think that he would say that Krugman gives us a good reason not to trust Obama.

    The use of the word "trust" is dangerous because it endorses the common practice that virtually all of us employ when making any argument from authority. BTD is right to be very suspicious of the term because it plays very strongly into the kind of blind trust/don't trust dynamic that undergirds team jersey politics and group think. On the other hand given that most of us don't have either the time or the ability to think every issue through it is almost inevitable that we simply pick some authorities to trust when trying to come to conclusions about what is happening in the world. Hopefully we pick these authorities not merely because we "like" them or because they "belong to the right side" but because we have also given some careful thought to the arguments that they have made.

    People have not been thinking for (none / 0) (#33)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 01:18:14 PM EST
    themselves for a long time, in my opinion.  Somewhere around the time when the media decided they needed to entertain instead of inform, they ditched the old method of presenting the facts and provoking people to think, and replaced it with minimal information bolstered by their interpretation of its meaning, and ending with a suggestion - subliminal or overt - about how people should feel about it.  Game, Set, Match.  And people found it so easy - I mean, with their oh-so-busy lives, who had time to think?

    So, that's the sort of zeitgeist that exists for a lot of people: some talking head will tell them what to think.

    Now we have this pretty complex issue that is affecting us on many fronts, and so few people understand the entirety of it that trusting others to know, and trusting others to handle it, and trusting that those in charge are mindful of their interests, is pretty much all most people have.  

    And, really - what if I don't trust?  Isn't that a big so-the-f**k-what?  Who, exactly, cares if I don't trust Obama/Geithner/Bernanke?  Do I think they care?  That whether I trust them, or you trust them, matters?

    Oh, sure - there's that confidence-in-the-economy element where trust can play a role, but for too many people, it's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of even-if-I-trusted-them-I-have-no-job-and-no-money-so-I-can't-spend-anyway.

    More people should question and challenge.  And if we can't hold the feet to the fire, maybe we need to hold the fire to the feet; in other words, take the fight and the fire to them.  Ask the questions.  Be present and visible.

    I will personally go out in my yard, dig up a nice, fat, juicy worm and eat it if the day comes - and soon - when the American people reject the tired propagnda being dished up by the media  - and that includes some blogs - and start thinking for themselves.

    [Note to nice, fat, juicy worms: Relax.  The only thing you need to fear are the birds.  And my husband's love of fishing.]

    Bravo BTD (none / 0) (#36)
    by Slado on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 02:05:11 PM EST
    To take trust to an extreme imagine that you had lit your financial house on fire with gasoline (debt) and the fireman who you trust told you the only way to put it out was to poor more gasoline on it to make it so intense that it would burn out due to lack of oxygen.  Now the firmean knows more about fire then you but common sense tells you that he is wrong and that more gasoling (debt) which created this problem is the last thing you need at this moment.

    That is what is happening with Obama.  Like BTD I have every reason to think he believes this might work.  

    The cynic in me sometimes thinks that maybe it's because he trusts the financial experts too much, maybe he like me thinks ths is all crazy but is scared of the political and partisan ramifications if he doesn't go along with the "experts" that quite frankly had their hands in the creation of this crisis.  That's just the cynic however.  More then likely he thinks what he is doing is right.

    Either way this is not a partisan issue it's an economic one.   Somebody is right and somebody is wrong.   I'm just scared that obama and his financial team are wrong and the price for being wrong is a bigger financial meltdown in the years ahead.

    So you're not going to buy the new bank banks? (none / 0) (#38)
    by lambert on Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 04:36:40 PM EST
    You know, the one where you get to buy a bond for a piece of a bank you already own because the taxpayers bought it?

    Well done, BTD. Salutary.

    Parent