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Wednesday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:41:25 PM EST
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The bottom three on American Idol: Megan, Allison and Anoup. I think Anoup will go home, unless Allison is selected but the judges save her.

Update: I was wrong, Megan's going home.

Our afternoon open thread is full, here's a new one. All topics welcome.

Update below: [More..]

The final episode of Life on Mars aired tonight. The last 10 minutes, if you watched any of them, was really something. Especially when it was 2035 and they talked about the President...Mrs. Obama.

This was a sleeper show, based on a British series of the same name. If you get a chance to rent the series on Netflix when it becomes available, I highly recommend it. Between Harvey Keitel, Michael Imperioli (of Sopranos fame), Gretchen Mol and of course, star Jason O'Mara, and the plots, it was really worth watching. I'm sorry it didn't get renewed, but the finale did the series proud. Some episodes are available online. The plot synopisis is here. It begins:

Where were you in 1973? NYPD Detective Sam Tyler (Jason O'Mara) finds himself in the cultural hotbed of New York City in the tumultuous times of the Vietnam War, Watergate, women's lib and the civil and gay rights movements - without a cell phone, computer, PDA or MP3 player -- suddenly hurtled back in time when he's ripped from 2008 after being hit by a car while chasing down a criminal. He's trying mightily to understand what has just happened to him and how he can get back "home."
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    Wednesday Night Open Thread | 86 comments (86 topical)

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    Am I the only one getting really really (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:52:28 PM EST
    sick of the Michelle is the reincarnation of JackieO bull$h*t?  Why can't Michelle Obama simply be tasteful, appropriate, currently iconic Michelle Obama?  And Jackie had an antisocial streak a mile wide that Michelle Obama has none of.....total zippo.  Just because both women present and carry themselves well in stressful to some society situations and are notably stylish does not make one poor woman the reincarnation of another.

    No, you're not, but it's the media (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:07:30 PM EST
    that are pushing it - actually gushing it - to the point where I just want to gag.

    There may never be another Jackie - a woman with obvious style, and grace and elegance, but who was not perfect by any means - maybe some are not old enough to remember, but not everyone was enamored of the First Lady who spent a fortune restoring and refurbishing the WH and who spent another fortune on clothes - she achieved iconic status because of the horror of Dallas and the poignance and tragedy of losing a premature baby and having two young children who lost their father.  She was forever defined by that tragedy, which was not fair to her, nor to her family.

    And I still don't understand why there is a desperate and breathless desire to find, and crown, someone Jackie's successor.

    I haven't seen or heard enough of Michelle Obama to know who she really is, but I know that being First Lady is a unique position that each woman who carries that title has to grow into, and in her own way.

    Her clothes!  Her hair!  Her bare arms!  Inside Edition?  No - NBC/CBS/ABC NEWS...how sad is that?

    And it hasn't even been three freakin' months.

    Argh.

    Parent

    You know what's sad? (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:15:52 PM EST
    Obama's own supporters have pushed this stuff. When you push the trashing of women don't whine when it comes back to crash land on "your woman".

    BTD excepted from the above statement.

    Parent

    I'm waiting to see what her cause (none / 0) (#41)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:13:23 PM EST
    will be -- looks like it will be elementary education.  So little attention is given by media to the tradition of First Ladies taking on causes, and some really have done so much good.

    (Every time you go down a highway and see the scenery instead of billboards blocking every view, as it used to be, thank "Lady Bird.")

    Parent

    It seems to me (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:09:32 PM EST
    that Jackie O was a First Lady for her time, and maybe Michelle O is a First Lady for her own time.  It shouldn't be all about aping the behavior of those who have gone before; people should just be their own person.

    Maybe I'm just one of the common people but I thought Michelle looked very nice.  I'm pleased to have her representing the nation.  If the self-appointed arbiters of fashion feel that she made some kind of faux pas, they're entitled to their opinion, but it doesn't really change the way I feel.

    And frankly, there's a little bit of class snobbery at work that I find pretty tiresome.  Oh no, the elite of society are shocked because someone broke a rule from page 382 of the etiquette manual.  The horror, the horror.

    Parent

    First paragragh is me to a "T" about (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:12:43 PM EST
    the whole deal.

    Parent
    I'd almost agree but (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:35:05 PM EST
    If the self-appointed arbiters of fashion feel that she made some kind of faux pas, they're entitled to their opinion

    Based on today's comments, I would see them more as connoisseurs of the whine club than the fashion police.

    Parent

    You've (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:37:17 PM EST
    obviously never met the fashion police then.

    Parent
    I need to find my badge ;D (none / 0) (#29)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:52:18 PM EST
    {digs in my past in hopes of finding it somewhere . . . }

    Parent
    I see (2.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:17:59 PM EST
    it as more of a hypocrisy thing than anything else. If you are going to get on people about breaking protocol like Bush then don't make excuses for your own.

    Parent
    I guess (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:25:13 PM EST
    but frankly when you compare Bush giving the German Chancellor a shoulder rub to whatever little gaffe the Obamas may have committed, you lose me completely.  Like 110% completely.

    I disliked Bush for acting like a boor on many occasions, but I assure you I never got on his case for eating his salad with the wrong fork.  That's not my style.  And I'm not sure I've ever had an unkind word to say about Laura Bush.

    Parent

    This isn't salad forks (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:54:00 PM EST
    and I'm glad that touching the Queen wasn't a contretemps, and I agree that it's hardly like fist-bumping Her Royal Highness!

    But I actually have been involved, years ago, in hosting a head of state, and you can bet that I studied up for months on many protocols -- as a sign of respect for his country's traditions.  One of those also was that no one was to touch him, yet one of our Americans did so.  Like the Queen, that head of state handled it graciously.  However, his people were horrified -- he also was the head of his country's religion, as is the Queen, and in his country's case, it really was disrespectful.  

    The thing is that, owing to Bush, we have a lot of mileage to make up to repair relations with a lot of countries, including the British.  And the handling of Gordon Brown, the bust in the White House, etc., was not great so far in this White House.  Reading the Guardian tonight suggests that there is some reaction to the Obamas that is not favorable.  But overall, they're minor faux pas, so far, so I think that we are making up a mile, anyway.  But there are miles to go. . . .

    Parent

    I'm not (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:30:08 PM EST
    saying it's the same but acting like you're at a barn dance with the Queen by hugging her instead of in Buckingham Palace is a mistake.

    Do you think it would be okay for Vladimir Putin to go up to Obama and hug him and like he was his old buddy? Slap him on the back? I dont and that's my point. It's simply not okay because Michelle did it.

    Parent

    Again (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:43:43 PM EST
    You just lose me rather than persuade me with the exaggerated rhetoric.  It was like a barn dance?  Really?

    Frankly, you are exhibiting the sort of tut-tutting that I deplored in my original comment.  Someone picks up the wrong fork, and certain people just have to go on and on like it was the crime of the century.  If your goal here is to criticize the people who admire Michelle Obama, rather than being harsh towards Michelle Obama herself, you could probably dial it down a notch and get the point across that much better.

    By the way, I'm sort of suspicious that the sainted Jackie O was actually not quite as universally beloved in her day as the legends would have it.  In fact I'm fairly confident that people took these same sorts of shots at her as well.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:56:36 PM EST
    hugging the Queen is pretty inappropriate behavior. Do you ever even see her own family members hug her in public? The answer is no. The whole episode was simply cringe worthy.

    Well, you and I are going to have to disagree. I hardly think that picking up the wrong fork is the same thing as this. People wouldn't even notice most people picking up the wrong fork unless they were looking for it.

    They may have taken shots at Jackie O but since I was three when JFK was assasinated I have no idea.

    Parent

    If Obamas policies succeed... (3.50 / 2) (#36)
    by Thanin on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:04:30 PM EST
    no one will care about any of this.  If his policies fail, all this will be secondary fodder people pile on when ripping on him.  Either way, ultimately, this stuff isnt important.

    Parent
    It is (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:12:56 PM EST
    with regards to our problematic relations with other countries. You're right about in our country though. They'll probably only care about the economy.

    Parent
    Well... (3.50 / 2) (#43)
    by Thanin on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:21:00 PM EST
    if Obama ends up fixing our foreign polices, then I dont think the world will care about any of this stuff... and, unfortunately, I am stressing if here.

    Parent
    FYI... (none / 0) (#85)
    by Thanin on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 05:37:21 PM EST
    yahoo news was reporting that the Queen initiated the hug with Michelle.

    Parent
    You bet Jackie K took her hits (none / 0) (#34)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:59:46 PM EST
    but not for fashion or manners.  She had such incredible grace and was raised in that ambience (some may not recall that she was somehow related to European royalty).  Redecorating the White House in grande style, though, got her criticism -- and a lot of it unfair, as it was a wreck, and she raised the funds privately, and then she made a lot of steps to open it up to the public like never before.  Even hosting a teevee special on it, which was said to be excruciating for her (she was very shy) -- and then she got hit for her really very girlish voice.  Many comedians had such fun with the Kennedy clan accents (I still have the Vaughn Meader album that's a hoot), and I don't see anything like it at the Obamas.  Such is public life, and they both wanted it.

    Parent
    Royalty my foot! (none / 0) (#44)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:34:10 PM EST
    We are all "somehow related to European royalty." The seedy Bouviers were no big deal, and M. Bouvier showed up at her wedding so drunk he couldn't walk his daughter down the isle (her stepfather stood in).

    Which is neither here nor there. Her class came from herself, not her bloodlines, however much the family mythologized it.


    Parent

    Well, you just lost a few toes (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:21:16 AM EST
    off that foot, as I was not thinking of the Bouviers.  It comes to me now:  Jackie K's sister married into European royalty.  (Probably not by your standards, but American standards are not the rule when it comes to royalty.)


    Parent
    impoverished royalty indeed! (none / 0) (#53)
    by Upstart Crow on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:27:56 AM EST
    Lee Bouvier married into the Radziwills, who are indeed diminished Polish aristocracy of ancient ilk.

    Poland has tons of impoverished aristocracy, but the Radziwills, at least this branch of them, still had some bucks to flash.

    Parent

    Speaking of fashion (none / 0) (#54)
    by Upstart Crow on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:30:38 AM EST
    I'll keep my toes. Even though I understand surgery to remove small toes is all the rage nowadays.

    Helps you fit into those horrible pointed shoes.

    Parent

    The Bouviers, fwiw, (none / 0) (#48)
    by Spamlet on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:46:22 PM EST
    were semi-impoverished (by aristocratic standards) gentry. Jackie's mother was remarried to Hugh Auchincloss, which helped. Jackie herself married down socially but up economically.

    Parent
    "semi-impoverished gentry" (none / 0) (#51)
    by Upstart Crow on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:09:16 AM EST
    Aren't we all?

    Parent
    Would that be (none / 0) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:35:12 PM EST
    the rubber duckie album as I remember it?

    Parent
    I don't recall (none / 0) (#60)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:14:39 AM EST
    people taking shots at Jacqueline Kennedy during her time as First Lady.  Quite the contrary. Her celebrity was considerable and preceded the assassination.

    The shots came later when she was connected to Onassis.

    Parent

    I do. So I will presume (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:18:21 AM EST
    that you are younger.  And much better-looking.

    See #39.  And if only I could somehow attach audio, the Vaughn Meader album, among others. . . .

    Parent

    I was (none / 0) (#81)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:54:20 PM EST
    21 when JFK was assassinated.  I don't know if I'm younger than you and I'm not better looking.

    I had the Vaughn Meader album and still remember some of the cuts.

    The criticism I do remember came from Republicans as expected.  There was no right-wing noise machine in those days but Republicans still managed to be moderately vile. Certainly nothing compared to the filth from today's right-wing media.

    Parent

    They always made Jackie (none / 0) (#83)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 04:28:20 PM EST
    sound like a breathless air-head ala Monroe in that movie Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon.

    Parent
    Some Like It Hot (none / 0) (#84)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 04:43:00 PM EST


    Parent
    Ah, Youtube has a taste (none / 0) (#62)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:24:02 AM EST
    of the Vaughn Meader album.  But linking isn't working as usual for some reason.  Google up cut #15 for a taste of the mockery (and many in the media were much more cruel).

    Parent
    Her Star Power was incredible.... (none / 0) (#86)
    by NYShooter on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 12:23:23 AM EST
    Europe, especially, was in love with her. On his first trip to Europe, Jack Kennedy, before a gigantic, record-breaking crowd, introduced himself in his patented, self-deprecating way, "I'm the guy who accompanied Jacqueline to your great Country."

    The place went berserk!

    Parent

    Jacqui was mystery of her era (none / 0) (#32)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:55:53 PM EST
    I don't think the comparison to the two women is even close. Jacqui was the first young White House Mother married to the handsome young President and it was after years of Eisenhower in the WH. She had her own style. People remember when she went to Paris. She spoke French. Wiki states:
    Before the Kennedys visited France, a television special was shot in French with Mrs. Kennedy on the White House lawn. When the Kennedys visited France, she'd already won the hearts of the French people, impressing the French public with her ability to speak French. At the conclusion of the visit, Time magazine seemed delighted with the First Lady and noted, "There was also that fellow who came with her." Even President Kennedy joked, "I am the man who accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy to Paris -- and I have enjoyed it!"
    It was a different era.

    Michele has her own style and it is more downplayed than flashy. I believe she wants to be First Mother above all things. And a hug is good. 'Bout time the Queen loosens up a bit. Jacqui was a charmer and DeGaulle and Nikita were impressed with her. I think there was a different spirit in the WH. The Kennedys. They were rough and tumble all Americans, rich, but all Americans. They were celebrities. I think Obama and Michele have been way too busy in the last two months during 24/7 news coverage. Everybody knows when they have a zit. In Jacqui's era, the zit was not mentioned.

    Parent

    If you (2.00 / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:02:08 PM EST
    look at the things that Jackie O wore there's no comparison. She wore something to meet the Queen that you'd wear to volunteer at your child's school. For some reason maybe Michelle feels like she needs to be someone else because being Michelle isn't good enough.

    It's the same thing with Barack. He's FDR. He's Lincoln. He's Reagan. I remember the same thing with Bush: it was he's FDR, He's Truman he's the real son of Reagan. And we all know now that he needed thos reincarnations because simply being George W. Bush was pretty poor.

    Parent

    The things that Jackie wore fit her time, (none / 0) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:10:33 PM EST
    and women with and without their clothing have gone through several evolutions and revolutions since :) Boy howdy, take a look at a few photos of Di at the height of shoulder pads :) The dimensions of this playing field change hourly :)

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:13:13 PM EST
    and I think that Michelle would be best to completely get out of that playing field if she's smart. Anytime anyone wants to talk about clothing she should change the subject. But maybe she wants to be judged by her clothes. Who knows?

    Parent
    When it comes to girls of all ages (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:16:49 PM EST
    Something global and nuclear is going to have to happen before we completely quit judging each other to some extent or in some circles by our clothing choices.  You can decide to not play but it doesn't matter because everybody else is going to play for you.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:19:14 PM EST
    but you can stop feeding it. You can't control what the others are doing but she's feeding that beast and I see that as a huge mistake.

    Parent
    I agree with you (none / 0) (#37)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:05:11 PM EST
    I really don't see Michelle Obama as Jackie at all.  Does anyone else recall Jackie's baby voice??  It was cartoonish at times and while she may have been quite intelligent, that was never showcased.  I don't get the comparison.

    Parent
    Never showcased? Ya gotta (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:11:16 PM EST
    be kidding.  See my comment above or go look up the media criticism of her teevee tour of the White House.  Go on ebay to find an old Vaughn Meader album mocking Jackie K worse than the rest of the clan -- doing the breathy voice but also having her say stupid things, and the woman was smart (and had a career before marriage as well as in widowhood).

    As was pointed out in another thread, JFK and the rest were not as popular during the presidency as some seem to think.  It was post-assassination, sadly.  But the same was true for Lincoln -- and no First Lady ever has endured the criticism (and much of it unfair, as we know now from new bios) that Mary Todd Lincoln did.  But many took a lot, and that's public life -- and in this case, at least Michelle Obama wanted public life.  Many, many First Ladies like Jackie K did not.

    Parent

    I think Befuddled (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:51:16 PM EST
    meant Jackie's intelligence was never showcased.  And that's not only true, it's a huge understatement.

    Parent
    That is exactly what I meant. (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by befuddledvoter on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 08:49:22 AM EST
    Jackie was really portrayed with that baby voice and kind of an air head.  She was only the focus for her clothes but I cannot recall one substantive thing she did before the assasination. That does not mean she did nothing; rather, it means if she did something notable, it certainly was not covered.  

    Parent
    No cable tv and no 24 hour broadcasting (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:20:17 PM EST
    was in place during the Kennedy years. That makes a gigantic difference to how much of this we have being fed to us.


    Parent
    Sign of the times (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Upstart Crow on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 09:31:20 AM EST
    I don't remember any woman's intelligence being highlighted in that era -- except maybe Mary McCarthy, Hannah Arendt and a few other Ivy League eggheads.

    Parent
    Bingo (none / 0) (#82)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 04:02:32 PM EST
    This was way, way pre "women's lib."  The intelligence, or lack thereof, of someone like Jackie Kennedy was a matter of zero interest.

    Parent
    I had the Vaughn Meader album (none / 0) (#65)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:50:28 AM EST
    As I recall (I'm working from memory here) the criticism wasn't really directed at Jacqueline Kennedy but at the fashion madness.

    In one cut a fashion big shot is showing Mrs. K a new dress they designed just for her.  She accepts the dress but, she doesn't like the top button and wants it removed.  After she leaves the room the fashion guy gets on the phone and says 'take the top button off those 5,000 First Ladys and put 'em on the racks'

    All of the voice characteristics were exagerrated as would be expected in a comedy album. I was a very strident Democrat and I thought the album was hilarious. I'd wager more Democrats than Republicans bought the album.

    It was a different era and assuming that the First Family album reflected widespread criticism or contempt is using today's criteria for judgement. Always a mistake when assessing the past.

    The Kennedy Administration wasn't getting the highest marks in public opinion polling but the family was very well received by most people and that was before the assassination.  This was the first young family in the White House since T.R. and there was no mistaking the fact that they were very fashionable.  For most people it was a refreshing change.  Remember, they were preceded by Ike and Mamie.

    Parent

    Ah, if I misread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:57:02 PM EST
    my apologies, as I certainly agree that Jackie K was rarely talked about for her own smarts, her career, and more -- only her physical attributes.  Stunning as they were, it was silly.

    Parent
    Anarchist riots in London (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:06:10 PM EST
    Not my kind of activism. . .

    You are just never up for good riot damn it! (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:11:08 PM EST


    Parent
    They're going all "argy-bargy" (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:12:00 PM EST
    according to the Brit commentator on Anderson Cooper.  And the Brits talk about what we have done to the English language? :-)

    Parent
    Oh, and this is really cook (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:08:04 PM EST
    Where in the world is Secretary Clinton.

    EEP!~ 57,944 miles since January/Feb?! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:55:00 PM EST
    talk about freakin' jet lag!

    Parent
    *cool (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:08:16 PM EST


    Parent
    Very cool. Wonder if any (none / 0) (#13)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:13:28 PM EST
    are new for her, not where she's been before?  As I recall, she went to 82 countries as First Lady.  Probably some more since.  Might hit 100!

    Parent
    What does anybody (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:24:33 PM EST
    think about Tweety saying that the party is splitting right down the middle behind the scenes and that Obama has called in Bill Clinton to try and resolve this problem?

    If it's true, then I imagine it is mostly due to the Geither plan.

    And the uneven (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:38:26 PM EST
    treatment of the auto industry AND the perceived union destructive activities.

    Parent
    Perceived? (none / 0) (#66)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:56:13 AM EST
    More like obvious.

    Parent
    If it's true, then good for Obama (none / 0) (#46)
    by Spamlet on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:37:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Geithner's been a disaster from day one, (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:41:54 PM EST
    Beginning with his taxes and right through every bailout plan that he's backed.  Unemployment continues to rise, at a rather dramatic rate while he throws money at rich bankers and car companies who both should go under and start over.  

    I get your point but (3.50 / 2) (#38)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:07:10 PM EST
    does anyone expect something to happen over night?  I never did.  It took 8 years for the economy to get this screwed up. Why would one month be enough to rectify it?

    Parent
    I'm surprised (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by indy in sc on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 09:08:37 AM EST
    by what I'm reading in this thread and the other open thread regarding the Obama's and Michelle in particular.  I'm so proud to have them representing us abroad and I think the people abroad are appreciating them more than we are here.

    I work some weekends with merchant marines who come into our ports from many different countries.  Several of the crew do not speak any english, but when they dock here, almost always I get at least 1 or 2 who manage to say "Obama" and give a thumbs up because they're excited about his administration.  I have that from people from the Phillipines, India, Ukraine, etc.

    The iPod was an odd, but sweet gift.  It is uniquely American (yes, I know the vast majority are not made here, but they come from an American company) and it is useful, contemporary and relatively inexpensive.  I believe this is the message they were trying to send--it matches the Obamas and will be remembered longer than a fancy trinket to go on a shelf.

    Michelle Obama looked very nice and, for those so inclined, her look can be had very inexpensively at your local JCrew.  I think that's great.

    More on that iPod... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jbindc on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 09:45:17 AM EST
    Didn't just have video of the Queens's 2007 visit -  it has photos of Obama and audio of his 2004 convention speech and his inauguration speech, so she can listen to him over and over and over again.

    It's not likely that another Jackie (3.66 / 3) (#14)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:14:41 PM EST
    Will ever grace the White House.  Her clothes were so simple, so classic, and her jewelry was too, that they still look good today.  Michelle is not quite in that league, her dresses are a bit more fussy, with some strange froo-froo stuff that I don't care for.  

    I could live a very happy life without ever again hearing about Michelle's arms and cardigans.  

    I'm just shocked because I usually (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:22:33 PM EST
    agree with you so much. Michelle Obama bats with Jackie but Michelle Obama is Michelle Obama and Jackie is/was Jackie.  Jackie is probably having a postmortem coronary though hearing all this hogish wash and now the media has revealed her reincarnation, who was born before she was even dead.  Jackie would have positively HATED all of this.

    Parent
    OK, Jackie would have hated it, (none / 0) (#24)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:37:01 PM EST
    What's that got to do with Jackie's style or Michelle's style?  Jackie's simple and elegant style has stood the test of time.  Michelle's won't, imo.  It has nothing to do with how Jackie feels about anything.  I am commenting on the difference in their styles.  That's all.  

    Parent
    I prefer Michelle Obama's style to (none / 0) (#35)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:03:27 PM EST
    Jackie's.  I was quite young when Jackie was first lady but it was just too tame for me.  The pill box hats?  Not my thing at all.  Michelle is quite unique in her style and wears clothes well.  She is a very big woman but always looks graceful.  I think she has great, strong arms also.  Good feature and good idea to showcase them.    

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    Behold and weep (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:20:16 PM EST
    From the previous thread, late addition:

    Jackie to lunch with the Queen:
    Deep pink wool bouclé dress and jacket by Herbert de Givenchy.

    http://pigtown-design.blogspot.com/2008/07/mrs-kennedy-goes-abroad.html

    The Jackie look was unmatchable and timeless. Absolutely amazing.

    Merci, Mssrs. Cassini and Givenchy!

    Parent

    They are totally giving MO this treatment on (none / 0) (#47)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:42:02 PM EST
    Larry King right now. I could almost puke but I think I'll just let my head explode instead while I flip the channel.

    Parent
    Yes, I had been watching Larry King (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 06:48:19 AM EST
    when I said enough to all this.  I should know better than to allow my intellect to get involved in a Larry King show.

    Parent
    My favorite example of great dressing (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Fabian on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 05:56:18 AM EST
    is of all things - Gena Davis in Stewart Little.  After I saw that movie, I decided my dream job would be to dress Gena Davis.  The clothes suited her, she suited the clothes and everything suited the movie.  It was what I think fashion should be - you look good, the clothes look good and there's no "fashion for the sake of fashion" anywhere.

    I rarely pay attention celebrity fashion because it might be interesting, but it usually doesn't apply to me.  I lean more towards Hillary's pant suits but definitely not Nancy Reagan's beaded gowns.  (Let me get you a mannequin to hang that on because I'm not going to wear it!)

    Favorite movie costume - the two piece outfit from Star Trek: Who Mourns For Adonis?  It's just a skirt and a drape attached at the skirt and tossed over the shoulder.  Gravity alone holds it in place.  I remember reading that the actress felt very comfortable and secure in it, but that everyone else was anxious that it would fall off at any moment.  

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 0) (#68)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 06:23:07 AM EST
    It's all a matter of personal taste, of course. But Jackie's taste was absolutely elegant, simple, classic, and timeless, in my opinion. I don't care for Michelle's fashion choices at all - they are always too busy, over-the-top and overdone. However, she is quite beautiful no matter what. And, personally, I could care less whether she follows protocol with the queen!

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    Tonite was the season finale (none / 0) (#55)
    by Amiss on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:38:35 AM EST
    of Damages. and I never saw that ending coming!
    (dont wanna ruin it for those that havent seen it yet)

    Tomorrow nite is gonna be rough. Grey's Anatomy season finale against ER final show and CSI's 200th episode as well.

    I'll take CSI for 200, Amiss ;) (none / 0) (#56)
    by nycstray on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:48:14 AM EST


    Parent
    Like Jeralyn (none / 0) (#64)
    by Amiss on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:43:41 AM EST
    I usually watch it the next day, I usually watch Greys and then CSI the next day or over the weekend. I really stopped watching ER when Noah Wylie left, but am kinda curious to see the old gang back.

    I am a sucker for a medical drama. I worked in surgery for over 20 years.

    Parent

    Thanks for reminding me about ER (none / 0) (#78)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 10:08:53 AM EST
    Like you, I stopped watching when Noah Wylie left, or shortly thereafter. What killed it for me finally was the writing for the last episode the Carrie Wheeler was on. That last scene with her and Maura Tierney's character, who had been on the show together for years, was so horrible, it was a disgrace to the show. Their dialogue was, almost verbatim, "We've been through highs and lows for a long time. Goodbye". Like a third grader wrote it. Sad to see for a show that had some great characters over the years, including those two. I couldn't wath it after that.

    Anyway, I will watch the last episode for old times sake! I used to love that old Dr. Carter- Dr. Benson relationship.  I thought that was better than any of the romantic relationships on the show.

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    I wait to watch Damages until Thurs (none / 0) (#58)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:11:01 AM EST
    when Comcast airs it in HD. It's really better. I didn't like this season, particularly William Hurt and Claire, the woman CEO. And Ellen has gotten on my nerves since the beginning.

    I wished they hadn't canceled Cane, the family drama about a wealthy Cuban family in the sugar business, it had great violence and emotion, and Jimmy Smits.

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    with Jimmy Smits? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Amiss on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:41:24 AM EST


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    I'll have to tell the Mr. and Josh (none / 0) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 06:54:53 AM EST
    about it being CSI's 200th episode.  They are huge CSI fans.  They even watch the CSI seasons available online at Netflix when they are bored.

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    I'm still trying to figure out (none / 0) (#75)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 09:28:53 AM EST
    the who knew what when part of it.

    I agree with J - I liked last year better. Lot's of odd acting choices this year.

    Timothy Olyphant (Wes) redeemed it for me though. His character was interesting and he made it believable - William Hurt could take some lessons.  

    Parent

    Megan. Man, I'm gonna miss ya. (none / 0) (#57)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:51:26 AM EST
    A distinctive and original voice from the top of her head to the tip of her toes.

    How did same-old same-old (except for his race) Anoop get more votes?

    I hope and I'm sure we haven't heard the last of Megan Joy.

    I think Adam has it sewn up (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:13:17 AM EST
    It will be between him and Danny at the end, and Adam is more ready to cut a record and he's better looking in the rock star sense. He's also very versatile, being able to do both Satisfaction and the Tracks of My Tears.

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    I don't know about that, Jeralyn - (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by Anne on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 08:00:06 AM EST
    there are eight contestants left, and some of them are pretty good; with something like eight weeks of shows left before a winner is crowned, anything can happen.

    Just look at Allison - she's good, but there are cracks forming; she may have been safe this week, but she was in the bottom three.

    As for Danny, I don't know what the judges heard on Tuesday night, but I was not impressed, at all.  As Randy would say, "a little pitchy."

    We'll see, but I think it's too soon to call this contest.

    Parent

    Home Price Map (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 08:50:29 AM EST
    See how home prices have dropped throughout the country, any mafor cities ranking, and when they are expected to bottom out in that area.

    Here in Orlando we are the 2nd worst. Boy, do I know how to time a market, or what?

    Denver is similar to the Souhern California market, cities ranked in the 30's.

    Michelle wants and tries to stand out (none / 0) (#79)
    by S on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:01:40 PM EST
    In almost every picture I have seen of Michelle Obama she is going against the grain...if all the other people, men and women included, are in tailored outfits, she is often wearing some garish, bright, floral dress and usually with no sleeves...if everyone is in muted colors, MO is sure to turn up in some glitzy, sparkly outfit that contrasts not only her own two piece wardrobe but stands in stark contrast to what everyone else is wearing...MO often chooses clothes better suited for the evening and wears them during the day...and she usually goes overboard with accessories...

    ...in fairness to MO, I have seen her in two outfits that were appropriate to the event and looked attractive...the camel coat ensemble she wore at the Lincoln statue event and the black and white coat ensemble she wore when just departing for London...other than that, almost everything I have seen her in is loud, inappropriate for the event and seems to have been chosen to especially set herself apart...

    ...today's blue sweater get-up on anyone else would definitely end up in the "don't" category...

    MO doesn't need to try to stand out...she already does...she would be much better off just using good taste and playing it down a bit...

    Wednesday Night Open Thread | 86 comments (86 topical)

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