2005 Fineman: Dems Can't Score Politically

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 02:29:09 PM EST
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In his skewering of Howard Fineman, who has been getting blasted all over, the part I really liked was Jamison Foser's "Cramering" of Fineman, pulling out Fineman's past political pronouncements like this one in 2005:

[I]n a roomful of well-connected Democrats the other night, I was struck by how gloomy they were. They can’t stand Bush, but didn’t have much faith in their own party’s prospects. Why? Well, some of the reasons they articulated are short-term and tactical; some are purely personal; others more philosophical; and I have a few myself . . .

Two Democratic landslides wins later, that column looks pretty stupid. Even better, as Foser notes, one of the most laughable Fineman assertions was that the GOP had an insurmountable advantage in political "star power," ticking off "Rudy, Arnold, Condi and Colin." Heh. Fineman's lucky there is no tape. It could be his "buy Bear Stearns" moment.

Speaking for me only

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2005 Fineman: Dems Can't Score Politically | 38 comments (38 topical)

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Howard the Duck has it wrong (5.00 / 2) (#4)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:18:43 PM EST

(like, what else is new)
it is my belief that many people -like me- who did not like or trust Obama are coming around.

around to TL? (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by CST on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:57:40 PM EST

Welcome back.


Hey Capt! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by jbindc on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:10:00 PM EST

Nice to see you!


thanks (both of you) (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:20:14 PM EST

been laying low but reading from time to time.
I am very pleased to think that it may be someone else and not me who got hosed by trusting a politician for once. I sure thought we were in for Bush III. it looks like I was very wrong.
and happily so.


Nice to see ... (5.00 / 2) (#33)
by Robot Porter on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 05:41:20 PM EST

you back Cap'n!

Hope you hang around.


: I have gotten so much more work done (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 05:51:36 PM EST

So nice to see Capt Howdy (none / 0) (#31)
by Dr Molly on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 05:15:28 PM EST

Have missed your humor.


: I ahve missed you guys (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 05:51:10 PM EST

Cramer as a verb (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by joanneleon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:51:51 PM EST

That is precious. Did you coin that one?

In any case, let's make that one stick, like "Friedman unit" et al. It becomes a daily reminder of what these guys are really like.

As for Fineman, I think he is going to get away with his metamorphosis.

Thank you (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by Jjc2008 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:29:20 PM EST

for reminding all about what a sanctimonious hypocrite Chris Matthews is....along with Fineman and the rest of the pundit class of gated community boys who love them some power and money.

I was so disheartened when some progressive blogs were loving on Matthews.....(mostly because of his hatred of the Clintons). Many tried reminding them of Matthews drooling over W, especially the day you described above....but somehow some people bought and still buy the myth that Matthews was always against the war, always a dem......the man drools over manly men of the right wing; trashes women any and every chance he gets and yet he was a darling as long as he hated Hillary.

Matthews is such a freaking liar and phony and he brings on Fineman because both can lie and spin and the other will swear to it.

: Problem with your diatribe (none / 0) (#43)
by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 11:41:01 PM EST

is that Matthews always was against the war, actually way ahead, way ahead of anybody else in the MSM in being outspoken about it. But you guys don't like to acknowledge that because it spoils your narrative.
Matthews is turned on by -- "gets a tingle up his leg" from -- good political theater, whether that's GWBush or Barack Obama. He's a schmuck, but his schmuckitude is a good deal more complicated than your storyline.

"Political stars"... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 05:49:16 PM EST

... are both made and unmade by circumstances. Which Fineman should have foreseen then, and which anyone overly excited by the Democrats current situation ought to forsee now.

: Fineman (none / 0) (#45)
by cal1942 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 11:57:33 PM EST

and his crowd only see personalities. Matters like policy and circumstances are far too complex for them to contemplate, it's not on their radar.
IMO these people really aren't terribly bright. Compare these people to the pundits from several decades back and they can't stack up more than ankle high.
But they do fit in with the news media's emphasis on entertainment.

I also thank you, Don from Hawaii (5.00 / 2) (#39)
by S on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 10:44:10 PM EST

extremely well said...

most of them, so-called reporters and/or pundits are a bunch of phonies that go with the corporate line, at MSNBC, it's GE...the other day they were actually pimping GE stock on Morning Joe...they are a bunch of hacks with all their coordinated talking points...that includes Mitchell, Alter, Olberman, yes, Maddow...the whole crew and their guests...people i used to think i respected until i saw how absolutely subjective and dishonest they were...how they created the day's story line and pushed it all day nonstop...

remember when they force fed us the stories about Hillary wanting Obama to meet JFK's fate, or that Hillary was calling Obama a muslim...Hillary and Bill, the racists...

: correction RFK (none / 0) (#40)
by S on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 10:46:16 PM EST

Hugh Hewitt (none / 0) (#1)
by MKS on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 02:57:10 PM EST

had Fineman on his radio show and is touting Fineman as proof that even Democrats are abandoning Obama....

What an odd view of reality.....

And, Fineman blasted Obama over Citibank--just before Citi announces it is profitable....Not that there aren't problmes with the banks still, but still Fineman is off the mark on one of his key criticims....

: Weird (none / 0) (#13)
by joanneleon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:12:38 PM EST

because Fineman doesn't seem to show that sentiment when he's on Olbermann's show nearly every night. It's also strange that Olbermann would use someone who goes on Hewitt's show.

Unless your 401 (k) is betting on InTrade (none / 0) (#2)
by magster on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:08:58 PM EST

Cramer's BS is much more directly harmful, especially as the blah-blaher's influence wanes.

Wasn't Fineman (none / 0) (#3)
by jbindc on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:10:35 PM EST

one of the biggest Obama cheerleaders?

Well he was a Hillary basher (5.00 / 3) (#14)
by joanneleon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:13:58 PM EST

big time. I don't know if he was an Obama cheerleader, but considering the way he collaborated with Olbermann to attack Hillary, it could easily be construed that way.


Hatfields v McCoys (none / 0) (#23)
by squeaky on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:29:09 PM EST

Many here saw it that way, too. Funny how each cult camp mimicked BushCo's famous "You're either with us or against us" in the name of their diety who was running against McBush.

Deep irony about the human spirit, or something like that.


I think this case was pretty cut and dry (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by joanneleon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:53:14 PM EST

If you watched their shtik night after night, it was pretty hard to see it any other way. No cult camp or "with us or against us" about it. They were either on a mission, or deeply afflicted with CDS, or both.


: Well (none / 0) (#47)
by Socraticsilence on Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 12:38:49 AM EST

There were those who suffered from ODS, you can't forget them.

No (1.00 / 1) (#10)
by squeaky on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:04:48 PM EST

He was in line with your spew.

"Obama is an arrogant SOB"

Maybe you called him uppity, same thing, imo..


And (none / 0) (#5)
by artsy on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:50:47 PM EST

maybe if poor people get jobs we would not have problems either. After all, this it is just a competition in the market place.

Because the Palestinians do not have as powerful a lobby, it is ok for Israel to confiscate their land.

Nice thinking!!!

Oops (none / 0) (#6)
by artsy on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:51:32 PM EST

Wrong forum

Everything he writes (none / 0) (#9)
by jb64 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 03:58:00 PM EST

Sounds like its from '98. He's trapped in amber like everybody in the MSM it seems.

What a tool

P.S. (none / 0) (#11)
by joanneleon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:08:37 PM EST

Typo in your title.

And another thought: Accountability is not in vogue in America among the politicians and pundits. Perhaps this is always so. But it is popular with the people. As the media continues to use the internet and the netroots as a touchstone of popular sentiment, they can't seem to resist grabbing on to hot subjects. Politicians will definitely turn on each other, but will the pundits do it? Might we see a changing of the guard in the media? As more media companies decline, they are ripe for something like this.

: Thanks (none / 0) (#16)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:17:58 PM EST

Rems and Dubs (none / 0) (#17)
by lentinel on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:19:29 PM EST

I assume the first democratic landslide you are referring to is the one in 2006. It was really a squeaker. I remember Webb's election was by a hair.

But my real feeling is that the dems may have won the congress - but they still were completely intimidated by Bush and remained so until the end of his second term. So when Fineman said, "They can't stand Bush, but didn't have much faith in their own party's prospects", I can understand it because the dems were republican lite. They still haven't come out of it - although now and then there is a glimmer of light - but just a glimmer.

Fineman is just another stuffed shirt with an opinion. I don't know how these people are chosen to spew their half-baked offerings. They are like someone's pompous uncle at a family gathering spouting their views on politics.

The dems won in 2008 mainly because the economy collapsed with perfect timing. Nothing took precedence. The war faded into the background where it remains. But what did they stand for - except that they were not literally republicans?

In aggregate (none / 0) (#21)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:26:50 PM EST

it was a Dem landslide.

they won the national vote by 13 points.


His mistake is the same one you are (none / 0) (#30)
by Slado on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 04:59:59 PM EST

making now.

The only thing that is garunteed is dems will screw this up and we'll have a shift back in the other direction either in 2010 or 2012.

Best case for everyone is we have Obama battling one or two republican congresses. Then nothing will happen and we'll all win. See Clinton in the 90's.


: How is that my mistake? (none / 0) (#32)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 05:25:17 PM EST

Does anyone remember the heady years (none / 0) (#38)
by Radiowalla on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 06:28:13 PM EST

when Howie Fineman was regularly crowned "Media Whore of the Year?"

MAN, do I miss (5.00 / 2) (#44)
by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 11, 2009 at 11:43:32 PM EST

Mediawhoresonline (regularly spelled in idiot show tanscripts "Mediahorseonline." Heh.)


: The great (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by cal1942 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 12:18:53 AM EST

Mediawhoresonline. It was like confirmation and reinforcement that you weren't crazy.
Anyone know what happened there?

: How Nostalgic (5.00 / 2) (#48)
by squeaky on Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 12:42:50 AM EST

Oh I miss the horse (none / 0) (#50)
by DancingOpossum on Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 10:22:34 AM EST

Somerby does a good job but sometimes his meandering thought processes are too hard to follow for my poor overworked brain.

There were those who suffered from ODS

Yes but none of them had a platform on a major newspaper or television talk show. Only a strong case of CDS could guarantee you one of those.