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Just Because Village Dems Want to Celebrate, Does Not Mean Everyone Will Show Up for the Parade

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 02:52:26 PM EST
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There is a certain absurdity to the spectacle of DC types and Obama blogs being outraged at Howard Dean and the Netroots for not liking the Senate health bill (whatever Ben Nelson decides it is gonna be.) Howard Dean does not have a vote. And no one listens to the Netroots anyway.

For the "Pass the Bill" folks insulting and then cajoling people like Dean and the Netroots for not supporting the bill, they need to think about the fact that it is Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman (and Jim Webb and Blanche Lincoln) who they need to convince to vote for the bill. Not Howard Dean.

The reality is these folks want there to be a parade, and are upset that some folks aren't cheering. Well, you can't scream someone into liking something they do not. Take it from someone who strongly supports the President's foreign policy (including in Af/Pak), it does you no good to get mad at folks who honestly disagree with you. In that sense, Rahm Emanuel, whose disdain for Progressives is quite open and plain, has a better attitude about this. He knows he is pissing off the base and it not concerned at all about that. The supporters of the Senate bill should take their cues from Rahmbo.

Speaking for me only

< Friday Afternoon Open Thread | Ben Nelson's State "Opt-In" To the Health Bill >

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    Just Because Village Dems Want to Celebrate, Does Not Mean Everyone Will Show Up for the Parade | 69 comments (69 topical)
    Why not? It worked so well during the primaries (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:01:26 PM EST
    All you need is to make them feel like they won't be able to sit at the cool table anymore.  

    Not capturing your point actually (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:02:36 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Peer pressure was extremely successful (none / 0) (#9)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:15:20 PM EST
    All the message machine needs to do is make the holdouts feel like they have no place else to go and that they're ugly and no one likes them.  
    Back when the Bushies were in charge, the netroots knew they were not on the A list but at least they had each other.  Now, their own party is turning on them and telling them they're acting like spoiled children.  No, they acted like spoiled children last year.  THIS year, they are behaving like voters that expect a return on their investment.  Perfectly understandable.  
    So, they must be taught to expect to be ostracized if they step out of line.  
    It's a bitter pill to swallow.  Most people don't have the guts for it.  The propaganda machine knows this.  

    [ Parent ]
    Nope (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:18:35 PM EST
    A Clinton is not on the other side  In fact, Bill Clinton is on their side.

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton has nothing to do with it (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:31:16 PM EST
    We can expect him to be a cheerleader.  That's what party loyalists do.  As far as I can see, he's not wildly enthusiastic.  He's just doing his job.  If he didn't, they'd blame him for trying to sabotage the bill for Hillary to run in 2012.  It's unlikely she would try to run anyway but people are getting all wistful about her.  So, to prevent her from becoming the scapegoat, he plays along.  No skin off of his nose.  Hillary is safely at State and it's not her business.  I suspect someone will ask her to weigh in at some point and she'll do the dutiful thing.  But I didn't hear a ringing endorsement from Bill and he was very careful not to insult anyone. He just did his job.  
    It's the other propaganda machine at work that is going to beat the resistors into submission.  The "grown up" meme that seems to be propagating from multiple sources is the dead giveaway.  Trigger words, carefully constructed to provoke just the right response.  

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton? Not the problem (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 10:58:30 PM EST
    You're right. Democratic party lives on corporate money and Bill is a sideline cheerleader and it means nothing. The pressure is really from Team Obama. Rham and Axelrod are breathing fire as the enforcers.

    As a lifelong Democrat who has been active in politics on all levels I can tell you this bomb of a HC bill is a Rham scam and Obama is just a show puppet who can give great speech but has no guts or emotional connection to people. Obama has been MIA on HC and Afghanistan is right out of Bush's playbook.

    Obama is going along with the Wall St heavies,and the Drug and insurance Monopoly.

    If it isn't obvious to the Obamabots it might take more snookering for them to wake up, but the real issue is that there is a massive sellout and disconnect in America and we'e all been jammed.

    No bill even if passed will take 4 yrs to effect. Meanwhile can you imagine the goodies  Insurance have in mind for us in  raising rates of premiums and drugs, and rejected claims?

    Four years of raking it all in until they can REALLY rake 30 million more witht those who have no other options, really to speak of?

    Forget Roe v Wade. Rham doesn't give a crap if women take a hit for the Dem party's coffers. Did Obama or any other prominent Democrats really take this issue on? Both the Stupak amendment in the House, and now Nelson's draconia are the wedge issues for barter being traded by Team Obama so they can...Get Any Bill No Matter What As Fast As Possible. Screw the women, we need the bill.

    Obama's new fear tactics are that if this isn't ASAP there will be doomsday for Medicare and our WHOLE country!!  Imagine- right out of the Bush playbook again.

    To hell with this piece of s**t called reform. There is no reform possible without the PO and none of the touted other goodies can all dissolve very fast from our Insurance Oligarths as they become even more all powerful.

    Unless we object in a united way and say no at the voting booth...forget it.
    Oh yes, the voting machines almost all hackable belong to Deibold and other private voting machine monopolists and what are we doing to stop them?

    And there are those in the blogs and elsewhere who claim my ilk are crazed lefties,& they are dead wrong.  Nader was counterproductive and I knew it would cost us. I stayed a Democrat and a realist. But this is too much.

    Now the Democratic Party with this giveaway will have completed the circle of bowing to corporate rule above any principles. Insurance Oligarchy is being born and America will go down the  with it.

    Count on our elected officials? Watching them is cringe making.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:40:07 PM EST
    Clinton had EVERYTHING to do with their behavior last year. My gawd, if you did not not that and do not know it now, then you are hopeless.

    [ Parent ]
    Excuse me??? (none / 0) (#31)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:50:14 PM EST
    I think we were right all along about how this whole Democratic party scenario would turn out.  Clinton isn't and never was the enemy.  He's not taking sides here.  He's doing what the party expects of him.  Do you think for one minute this bill would turn out like this under a Clinton administration if he had the numbers in Congress that Obama has?  
    Me neither.  


    [ Parent ]
    What does that have to do with my comment? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:07:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I don't know (none / 0) (#45)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:12:29 PM EST
    I think we are talking past each other.  
    Clearly, Dean and his droogs have a problem with Bill Clinton that I have never understood.  I've looked at the data from all angles and it has never made a whole lot of sense to me.  
    Nevertheless, the pressure is on to make the agitators sit down and shut up.  The Deaniacs were on the winning side last year.  Now, they're going to feel what it's like to be on the outside looking in.  It won't be pretty and Clinton has nothing to do with what's about to happen to them.  


    [ Parent ]
    Yep (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:13:53 PM EST
    We were talking past each other.

    [ Parent ]
    But why should they care? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Spamlet on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 05:28:16 PM EST
    Isn't it the Obot contingent that looks increasingly ridiculous and uncool? Who will care what the 'Bots think if they keep on in this vein? And won't their lack of coolness only intensify if there's an electoral bloodbath for the Dems next year?

    The Deaniacs were on the winning side last year.  Now, they're going to feel what it's like to be on the outside looking in.  It won't be pretty and Clinton has nothing to do with what's about to happen to them.


    [ Parent ]
    I'm gonna ask again (none / 0) (#22)
    by cawaltz on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:34:37 PM EST
    which bill is it again that Bill Clinton is supporting the hypothetical, ever evolving Seante bill or the House bill? I don't think he really knows since he doesn't refer to either in his blanket statement.

    [ Parent ]
    He's very clever with his words (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:40:54 PM EST
    He says:
    "Allowing this effort to fall short now would be a colossal blunder -- both politically for our party and, far more important, for the physical, fiscal and economic health of our country,"
    I read that statement in a number of ways.  It could mean the obvious: pass the damn bill because if we don't pass something, the party will be in trouble.  Or it could mean, don't let the bill fall short of what is possible right now or it could mean disaster for the party.  
    I don't think he is encouraging anyone to give up on this bill and take it the way it is.  I think he is suggesting that there is room for improvement and since they don't get many cracks at this sort of thing, they'd better make it the best bill they can before they vote on it.  It doesn't have to be perfect.  It just has to be good enough to not collapse the party.  


    [ Parent ]
    But the Obama administration (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:52:57 PM EST
    will not take a win on this bill to the same place that a Bill Clinton administration would have.  Obama does not care about the poor or labor to any degree that Bill Clinton did.

    [ Parent ]
    "the poor and labor" (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 08:55:05 PM EST
    that's carefully engineered perception that dosnt bear up under close scrutiny.

    Google Clinton + Uribe, or Clinton + Walmart. We wont even get into the fallout from NAFTA and the WTO for the poor and labor.

    If they're the best hope of the poor and labor, the poor and labor should think about trying their luck squatting in Canada.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is an Elitist (none / 0) (#60)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08:08 PM EST
    So what did you expect? Only Obamatons have delusions about him.

    Clinton,s visceral connection to the poor was very real and one could sense his connection.

    [ Parent ]

    That's what I took away from it too (none / 0) (#36)
    by cawaltz on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:54:10 PM EST
    and its consistent with what has been said throughout the process by him.

    Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the media is twisting stuff.

    [ Parent ]

    It doesn't matter which (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:46:58 PM EST
    He supports both.

    Bill is a party guy, first and foremost.  Even if he wasn't, he is a hostage.  What's he supposed to do?  Talk down on his wife's boss?  Get her fired?

    It's like asking an Obama cabinet member if they agree with any and all of Obama's policies.  Of course they do....if they want their jobs.

    [ Parent ]

    Ha (none / 0) (#51)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 06:02:44 PM EST
    That would be fantastic to watch Obama try and fire the person in the administration with highest approval ratings by far - high ratings that reflect a 95% approval among Democrats, 65% approval among Independents, and 57% approval among Republicans.

    Guess someone in the administration got the whole PPUS thing figured out.

    [ Parent ]

    Ask him (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:40:49 PM EST
    How the hell should I know? I am not Bill Clinton's spokesman.

    [ Parent ]
    True. But you did attend that blogger (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:44:16 PM EST
    meet up.  Work your connections, man.

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton isn't going to say what he really thinks (none / 0) (#41)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:04:02 PM EST
    He's got to be diplomatic.  He's given his directions and issued a warning.  
    What more does the party want?  If he really thought the bill was the best they could do, he'd have said it.  
    Seems to me that Clinton and Dean have something in common.  

    [ Parent ]
    Dean and Clinton (none / 0) (#59)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:05:21 PM EST
    You betcha.  They both know this is a scam bill.

    [ Parent ]
    You just claimed he was on their side (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by cawaltz on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:51:58 PM EST
    Seems spokesman-y to me.

    If I were a betting woman I'll bet what he did was no different then the first go round when he was basically saying something needs to be done about health care and Congress can not leave the table until its fixed and the media is making a big deal of it to further their interests.

    [ Parent ]

    HE said he was on their side (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:06:31 PM EST
    Not me.

    Sheesh. Believe what you want. I do not care.

    [ Parent ]

    The new cry (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by cawaltz on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:03:05 PM EST
    When "kill the bill" is over is gonna be "kick the bums out" long as they come terms with that things will be peachy until 2010.

    Remember (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:06:50 PM EST
    clap louder for Bush? this sounds like I'm reliving a nightmare. Please can somebody wake me?

    I love a parade! (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:10:53 PM EST
    And I'll happily join in on one, if it means rallying for Howard Dean again. The 2004 primaries were the last time I remember being excited at a political rally.

    For those who are represented by progressive caucus members, call them and ask them if they're still going to draw a line in the sand over the public option. If yes, then Dean has more support than the WH will admit.

    We Have To Fix This Country (none / 0) (#61)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:11:26 PM EST
    We must continue to hope that we can find real leadership amd even dare to think of running as Independent. We have to think and ultimately strategize a position for political action.

    We are watching America disappear.

    [ Parent ]

    They may be angering more than (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:11:27 PM EST
    just the base according to a new poll commissioned by DFA and conducted by Research2000.

    Seems that the public option makes a difference - sort of a big difference - to people especially if the mandates are included in the bill.

    It is just one poll, but it is supported by the many polls that have preceded it showing that a public option is popular - remarkably popular mostly hovering around the 70% mark.

    Poll

    It is so weird to me (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:15:52 PM EST
    that people who are IN government are more afraid of a government take-over of medicine than people who aren't.

    [ Parent ]
    They must be fool enough to believe (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:52:59 PM EST
    that it IS a take-over of medicine.

    All anyone sane really wants is rational and competent management of the payment system.  Not hard and hardly a take-over of medicine.

    [ Parent ]

    The poll clearly demonstrates what we've (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:17:06 PM EST
    known all along. The popular components are controversial, and the unpopular ones are not. The village is a freak show.

    [ Parent ]
    It also shows ... (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:24:11 PM EST
    another thing we've known all along.  The public understands health care, and knows what needs to be done to fix it.  And they cannot be fooled by Village smoke and mirrors.

    [ Parent ]
    I left the base (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by cawaltz on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:39:09 PM EST
    and as an indy I have already informed Webb(who by the way has already sent me a fundraising letter) that if they pass this I will be po'ed. I worked to get him in that office and I will not only freakin' sit on my hands if he helps pass this I will be working to elect his replacement in hopes that HE/SHE will do a better job(and will lather rinse and repeat until I get adequate representation).

    [ Parent ]
    Bully for you (none / 0) (#62)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:13:03 PM EST
    You have the right spirit and political action is all we've got.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama and his pals are in denial if they think (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:17:01 PM EST
    they can win any more elections without the support of labor.

    ...but: where will we go and (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by suzieg on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 05:52:52 PM EST
    for which party will we vote for in a two party system? That's what they're arrogantly counting on!

    [ Parent ]
    Here's the thing (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 06:21:12 PM EST
    Even if union leaders continue to support the Dems because they have no where else to go, they can not go into the voting booth with their members. If union members lose the health care that they sacrificed wages to get, I think they will be extremely reluctant to vote D regardless of what their leaders say.

    [ Parent ]
    It's not just the base ... (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:18:09 PM EST
    or the netroots that doesn't like this bill.

    Polls show the public doesn't either, though they do support more progressive versions of the bill.

    The public is the progressive voice here.

     

    that too (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:19:11 PM EST
    Atrios makes a good point on that score.

    [ Parent ]
    And because we're negotiating amongst ourselves, (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:26:16 PM EST
    we're actually negotiating against ourselves. That's the genius of the Republicans not providing a single vote for this.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama blogs vs. Netroots. (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by ChiTownDenny on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:27:14 PM EST
    There was a point in time when there was no distinction, save PUMAs and Dems who were called racist; for the record, you know.

    I think the thing I am most tired of (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:39:34 PM EST
    is being treated as if I was too dumb to figure out what's going on.  

    The more noise that is made about how bad the bill-that-isn't-a-bill-yet (BTIABY) is, the more attention Average Joe and Jane give the issue, and the more questions there are about the value of the BTIABY, the more people question whether they are being played - and that makes it that much more difficult to lay claim and take credit for an historic victory in health care reform when and if something passes; the harder we tug on the Wizard's curtain and the more we expose the reality of what lies ahead, the angrier they get that we are deliberately and vindictively raining on their parade.

    Well, that's just too damn bad.  Maybe Obama has been able to make all the disagreeable people get out of his way and allow him a clear and easy path to whatever he's after, up til now, but this is a whole new ball game, and it's just not going to be that easy anymore.  

    Not if I can help it.

    Isn't this the truth? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:47:23 PM EST
    Everytime anyone has noticed the administration feigning this or hobnobbing with that and making secret deals with entities we have been shunned.  And now we are at this place that everyone who was noticing things figured we would end up and still, we are what is wrong with the situation.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, yes (none / 0) (#53)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 06:55:11 PM EST
    I agree, Anne.  Many of those who voted for Obama have finally realized that the Emperor has no clothes (or, rather, maybe more that the clothes have no Emperor).  We on the blogs are not the only ones who won't be "getting out of his way."  Despite what Obama, Emanuel, Axelrod, and all the others think, they're not going to find it so easy to garner the votes they need in 2012.  They can get all the money they can from the health insurance industry, Big Pharma, and the rest, but if the voters don't come out, they're toast.

    [ Parent ]
    Caveat Emperor (none / 0) (#63)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18:49 PM EST
    I agree. This team is toast.

    The Villagers will hang for a while, but they won't count. They've been so ham handed and arrogant I'm amazed they still have anyone left on their side.  But it will happen. The sellout is huge.

    [ Parent ]

    These "reforms" won't stand for long (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by esmense on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:03:59 PM EST
    anyway -- if the economy doesn't come roaring back and/or the Republicans manage to hold it together enough to nominate someone who doesn't actually look insane, like Romney or Crist -- because Obama will be a one term President. That means the mandate the beltway boys love, but the GOP's small business constituency absolutely, vehemently abhors, is gone. Losing it won't matter to the insurance companies because this administration is doing such a good job of setting the stage for gutting Medicare I'm sure a GOP president, with the aid of Lieberman, Nelson, etc., to the ignorant applause of the beltway bloggers and pundits, will find it easy to push through lots of compensating giveaways.

    So definitely Progressive should stop them now and continue demanding real reform. If they won't stand up now, they will be impotent in standing up against much worse things to come.

    If they help these idiot's, who are, out of hubris and ignorance, heedlessly helping the insurance industry set up the American people as marks in a huge, elaborate con, they will surely live to regret it.

    I love parades!!!!!! (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by lambert on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:42:44 PM EST
    I'm gonna bring my pony to the parade LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    from the Chicago Trib (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Molly Pitcher on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 08:48:59 PM EST
    Did anyone else read this:

    The pirates of Wall Street and the political charlatans have won.

    The American people, especially those who are sick and poor or sick and middle class or just poor and middle class and afraid that one day they will get sick, have just lost.

    What we needed was principled and determined leadership in the White House and on Capitol Hill. What we got from the people whom we elected and sent to Washington to clean house and shape up a corrupt system was much ado, and then nothing.

    What we need to do now is vote all the scoundrels out of office -- Republicans and Democrats alike -- and send in a new and hopefully more honest, caring and courageous team. Then keep on doing that until we get it right.

    (Joe Galloway is a senior military correspondent and the author of several books, including the national bestseller "We Were Soldiers Once . . . and Young." He can be reached at jlgalloway2@cs.com.)

    Copyright © 2009, Tribune Media Services

    Not me. (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by ek hornbeck on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 10:41:04 PM EST
    Deal.

    I think (2.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:14:20 PM EST
    Howard Dean and Joe Lieberman have a lot in common. They both strive to have a mic in front of them.

    I have never known Howard Dean (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:44:02 PM EST
    to seek attention simply for the sake of attention.  I have known him to seek issue based attention.  I can't say this about Joe on anything outside of Israel issues.  Joe Lieberman likes to feel relevant.  He said so himself not long ago :)  Howard Dean is a physician.  He is involved in this debate for different reasons.  I don't think they are less selfish, because Dean would get an emotional pay off if real reform was passed....but Dean is about the issue and Lieberman is about being relevant even though the fool is the one who has made himself politically irrelevant up to this point.

    [ Parent ]
    It is all so very strange. It wasn't all (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:52:32 PM EST
    that long ago that Howard Dean was strongly criticized as chair of the DNC for cheating Hillary out of the nomination.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, he didn't help a Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:57:00 PM EST
    supporter feel validated, that was for sure.  But I think he was coming from a position that was purely political.  I don't think he was trying to accomplish much outside of unit the clans somehow.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't remember personally feeling a (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 04:04:35 PM EST
    lot of venom toward him.  I wasn't overly happy with him but I didn't want him burned at the stake either like Donna Brazile :)  That was a dicey situation.  We had to get through it so that we could have this lousy president instead of a different lousy president :)

    [ Parent ]
    I still don't like him (2.00 / 1) (#38)
    by goldberry on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:57:34 PM EST
    Never did.  The only thing that ever appealed to me was his scream.


    [ Parent ]
    Dean and Hillary (2.00 / 1) (#64)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:24:54 PM EST
    Well he did cheat her. Party politics for which he was not rewarded. Too much of a threat re: Healthcare Reform For Real.  Also he may have believed in Obama, and I kinda think he did. Until.

     But on this issue of HC Reform he's been honest and right.  He's enormously informed and while satisfaction would definitely be a motivator, the important thing is that Dean is not corrupt.And he has real passion and connects with real people.

    His past is prologue.

    [ Parent ]

    Dean was chair of the DNC... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Romberry on Sat Dec 19, 2009 at 12:45:38 AM EST
    ...not the king of the DNC. Dean didn't cheat HRC. Look to the Rules and Bylaws Committee for that. What Dean could and could not do as chair was extremely limited. About the only way you can make the case that Dean cheated HRC would be if you spell his name D-O-N-N-A B-R-A-Z-I-L-L-E.

    [ Parent ]
    The DNC did, not necessarily Dean (none / 0) (#68)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:56:02 PM EST
    His job was to speak for the DNC.  I'm still baffled by what all went on there behind the scenes, but the fact that Dean was rudely booted immediately after the election by the Obama people says to me they don't think he fell on his sword for them.

    [ Parent ]
    Silly (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:17:16 PM EST
    Everyone involved in the public debate wants a mic.

    I assume you would like one too.

    I know I would.

    [ Parent ]

    Naw (2.00 / 1) (#39)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:59:09 PM EST
    I know what I would like has no chance of being passed. Having realized about 30 years ago that I was swimming against the tide on abolishing capital punishment, and 20 years ago tilting at windmills for universal health care, I'm now accepting of incremental change.

    [ Parent ]
    Incremental? (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30:32 PM EST
    In your dreams.  You will be totally owned by Healthcare Monopoly who will become more powerful than ever [$$$$$$$$] and the stranglehold on politics unsustainable. You will suffer.

    Incremental has to START with a Public option and trade off some other stuff, but with a majority this was possible with true politics played masterfully and sincerely.

    These are all a bunch of corrupt bastards and weaklings. Most are merely incompetent and stupid. but the crime here is Hope and Change's vanishing act.

    [ Parent ]

    Howard Dean is acting (1.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Xclusionary Rule 4ever on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 07:18:06 PM EST
    He is a team player acting like he hates the bill so that conservadems can justify voting for it.  "look Ben, all the liberals hate this bill, it must be OK" u guys are rubes

    Dean is not "Acting" (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:34:39 PM EST
    Dean is doing, not acting. And he's been treated badly. There is nothing in this for Dean. Team Obama has marginalized him and now he's even more
    out of the loop.  Dean has always been passionate about healthcare.

    I somehow imagine he was eased out as Chair of the Party, but in any case he's not been an inner circle elite of this team.  Thank God.

    [ Parent ]

    Dean is not "Acting" (none / 0) (#67)
    by norris morris on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 11:36:26 PM EST
    Dean is doing, not acting. And he's been treated badly. There is nothing in this for Dean. Team Obama has marginalized him and now he's even more
    out of the loop.  Dean has always been passionate about healthcare.

    I somehow imagine he was eased out as Chair of the Party, but in any case he's not been an inner circle elite of this team.  Thank God.

    [ Parent ]

    See (none / 0) (#4)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:06:48 PM EST
    The problem is, they think if they drag this out for another week, but then get a Christmas Eve vote, people are going to be distracted by the festivities, and all they'll hear is "Health Care Bill passed" and rejoice, because truly a savior has been brought forth to save us all.

    President Nelson (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 03:16:18 PM EST
    says no vote before Christmas.

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you For this post (none / 0) (#70)
    by radiant on Sat Aug 28, 2010 at 02:57:19 AM EST
    will not take a win on this bill to the same place that a Bill Clinton administration would have.  Obama does not care about the poor or labor to any degree that Bill Clinton did.
    Make Money Online By titokun

    Just Because Village Dems Want to Celebrate, Does Not Mean Everyone Will Show Up for the Parade | 69 comments (69 topical)