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Happy Chanukah

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 04:35:18 PM EST
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Hannukkah? Chanukah? Anyway, have a happy first night.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Happy Chanukah | 55 comments (55 topical)

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    Since you brought it up (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Steve M on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 04:49:35 PM EST
    Rod Dreher:

    GREAT MOMENTS IN JEWISH HISTORY:

    ca. 1037 BC - King David comes to the throne of Israel

    167-161 BC - Maccabeean revolt

    1135 - Maimonides born

    ca. 1698 - The Baal Shem Tov born

    1948 - Reborn state of Israel proclaimed

    1989 - Herschel Shmoikel Pinchas Yerucham Krustofski, better known as Krusty the Clown, makes his first television appearance.

    2009 - Sen. Orrin Hatch writes "Eight Days of Hanukkah"

    I dare you to click that last link!!  You will be tapping your toes as you light the menorah tonight.

    Also, I did not realize that Adam Lambert was Jewish.  "His dreidel spins the other way," says my office manager.

    I'd lobby for this Jewish Classic to get A-Listed (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Ellie on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:19:40 PM EST
    ... instead of Dr. MM's birth. Go here. (And would it kill you to wipe your feet?)

    The 12th-century Jewish physician, Maimonides, started the chicken soup-as-medicine trend when, in his book, On the Cause of Symptoms, he recommended the broth of hens and other fowl to "neutralize body constitution."

    According to Maimonides, boiled chicken soup also played a role in curing leprosy and asthma, and--as a Jewish grandmother might put it--"putting some meat on your bones."

    Here's the full text at Gutenberg.

    The hand that chokes the chicken rules the world.

    Parent

    Maimonides: personal physician (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:24:06 PM EST
    to that Middle Ages jihadist's jihadist (with a dash of chivalry), Saladin.

    What a movie that would make.

    Parent

    The Krusty's Father episode (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 04:51:15 PM EST
    was a classic.

    Parent
    I learn something new each and every day (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:11:15 PM EST
    on Talk Left.  Never heard of the Baal Shem Tov snd/or Uncle Krusty.


    Parent
    You may be the first human being (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Steve M on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:14:07 PM EST
    to learn about them simultaneously.

    Parent
    steve, tell us, do you have long curly black (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:16:10 PM EST
    sideburns?

    Parent
    Nope, I would be the second one (none / 0) (#38)
    by Cream City on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 12:53:37 AM EST
    and I will be forever changed by this moment.  Shalom!

    Parent
    That Orin Hatch... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 08:55:29 AM EST
    jam wasn't half bad...cool little break beat in there and everything.

    Parent
    Funny thing about the Maccabees (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Salo on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:07:52 PM EST
    They chased off the effete  Greeks but did so by alliance to Rome. The Empire that obliterated Judah territorially. Funny old world innit?  Beware of Greeks  bearing gifts and Romans  with contracts.  

    Effete? (none / 0) (#14)
    by ChiTownDenny on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:24:50 PM EST
    The Greeks?  C'mon, now.  Can't we just enjoy a li'l multi-cultural celebration.  

    Parent
    They were a bit fancy... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Salo on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:28:36 PM EST
    ... Were they not?  All that sculpture and philosophy sure to ruin the manly virtues of republican virtues and godly piety.  

    Parent
    No way! (none / 0) (#29)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:01:09 PM EST
    What about the Spartans?  

    Sheesh!  

    Parent

    Exception proves (none / 0) (#34)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 11:06:03 PM EST
    the rule...

    Parent
    Thanks -- such a day here (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by Cream City on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:03:59 PM EST
    with a daughter having emergency surgery, back here for recuperation -- and back to being treated like visiting royalty, the princess that she is . . . so until I got back online to this post, sundown somehow snuck past our resident Jew.

    So I signed off to make the quick annual scurry for the candles, gave the menorah a last, fast polish -- and the candles were lit, and the incantations were prayed by Jewish spouse, while I went back online to find and play Adam Sandler's Hannukah song, a favorite for us Gentiles, and a new thing for the new daughter-in-law.  She can hardly wait for her next call home to report the latest customs witnessed in her weird new country.

    Sandler was enough.  I am saving Krusty the Klown for next year.  We want our newcomer to stay.

    So (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:20:31 PM EST
    Do you make Latkes?  MMMMM.

    Parent
    Segue is Wisconsin Thinking of you (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:11:56 PM EST
    as I listen to the audio book of Jane Hamilton's newest novel, "Laura Riders Masterpiece."  Very clever and funny.  I did not realize Hamilton lives in Wisconsin, where the novel is set.

    Parent
    Oh, yes. The home of Moo U! (none / 0) (#39)
    by Cream City on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 01:00:39 AM EST
    so some say, so you must read that by our other Midwestern Jane -- Jane Smiley, that is -- as it had us in hysterics here in the Heartland.  We all have had to survive the ag schools and such on state campuses.  You learn where downwind is, but fast, youbetcha.

    So it's not all dark here, like so many of Jane Hamilton's Wisconsin-based novels -- which are an entirely different level and genre, of course . . . but that means that a balance of the two Janes is just the thing in a long, cold Wisconsin winter such as those that inspired some of her work.
    Tough enough to live through it right now!


    Parent

    "Laura Rider" is completely different (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 11:59:07 AM EST
    from (than?) Hamilton's previous novels.  Very funny.

    Parent
    Oh, good. It's on my to-do list, then (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 04:36:51 PM EST
    for a brief semester break in the dark depths of January. . . .  Thanks!

    Parent
    Hannukah spelling (none / 0) (#2)
    by Coral on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 04:51:04 PM EST
    I always wonder why two 'n's when it starts with H, and only one when it starts with Ch.

    It's two k's (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:32:07 PM EST
    one 'n' no matter which spelling you choose.


    Parent
    Great minds think alike! (none / 0) (#26)
    by robrecht on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:39:24 PM EST
    I just posted the same thing below--because of the Dagesh Chazak.

    Parent
    NYT high end ads in front section today (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 11:37:33 PM EST
    show serious conflict re proper spelling.  

    Parent
    No phonetic pronunciation guide and (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 04:58:42 PM EST
    catchy graphic?  link from TL sidebar

    How about C is for (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:00:28 PM EST
    Chanukah . . no H ahhhhhhh!

    Parent
    It's actually (none / 0) (#7)
    by steviez314 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:03:30 PM EST
    (make a sound like you're clearing your throat)--annukah.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:02:41 PM EST
    As in charoset (I doubt that helps).

    Parent
    Shoutout to the Tribe (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ellie on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 04:59:14 PM EST
    aka The Israelites.

    Didn't notice the sun went down already.

    I love that song (none / 0) (#22)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:47:09 PM EST
    and listen to it at the gym on my workout tape.  Weird lyrics, though.

    Parent
    I'm spending Chanukah (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:03:46 PM EST
    in Santa Monica -- says Tom Lehrer.  Or, for the real spirit of, here's "Ocho Candelikas", a great Sephardic song of the season.

    Parent
    Marvelous! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:00:00 PM EST
    Tom Lehrer... a great artist, sorely missed!
    Thanks!

    Parent
    I have an orginal copy (none / 0) (#33)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 11:05:11 PM EST
    of his first album on my shelves, greatly treasured.  I memorized the lyrics to every one of the songs on it when I was a young teen.  ("Fight fiercely, Hahvahd, fight, fight, fight! Demonstrate to them our will!  Albeit they posses the might, nonetheless we have the will!  etc.)

    Parent
    Same here! (none / 0) (#36)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 11:26:11 PM EST
    Remember the "Vatican Rag?"

    Oh, the good ol' days!

    Parent

    Unofficial anthem (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Cream City on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 01:16:08 AM EST
    of some of us crazies in my Catholic high school.

    Genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

    Parent

    Desmond Dekker.... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 09:00:08 AM EST
    is the man...good call Ellie....and what funky bell bottoms, I though he only rocked black leather...those swingin' 70's:)

    No Hanukah connection, but here's Inensified '68...another gem from Desmond.

    "We're havng a party...I hope you are hearty"

    Parent

    Is this a Chanukah song? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 10:22:16 AM EST
    Hadn't considered it before, but now I'm wondering.  (Can't explain the old film clips in the video, though.)

    Parent
    Karl Haas, Detroit radio station, (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:07:16 PM EST
    "Festival of Lights."  Could not locate a link but a wonderful musical telling of the story of Hannukkah.  Every year I would call my Jewish friend and tell her to listen to this program.  And every year she would tell me she did not have a radio in her office.  More's the pity.

    Much, much better than Orrin Hatch's (none / 0) (#16)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 05:50:17 PM EST
    Chanukah song is this one from Captain Smartypants called "Brokeback Dreidel."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjNXTQfsL9Y

    I concur. Have you heard 'Oy to the World'? (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Ellie on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:07:46 PM EST
    Technically, not a Channukah-oriented collection but warmly welcomed wherever I've brought it. (Site has samples plus a downloadable freebie.)

    Parent
    Polanski update: Summit, the company (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:20:21 PM EST
    behind the Twilight films, will distribute Polanski's latest film:  NYT

    Chanukkah: Dagesh Chazak (none / 0) (#25)
    by robrecht on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:36:53 PM EST
    Actually, I spell it Chanukkah, both with the "Ch" and with two Ks, because of the Dagesh Chazak.

    dagesh hazak on talkleft! (none / 0) (#31)
    by noholib on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:40:33 PM EST
    Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine a discussion of dagesh hazak on Talkleft!  For afficiandos of heavy-duty Hebrew grammar, here goes:  
    Dagesh hazak is the dot that doubles the kaf consonant (11th letter of the Hebrew alphabet), causing it to be pronounced as a hard k, not a soft kh.  In transliteration, two kk's indicate that.
    As for the initial consonant, het, the 8th letter of the Hebrew alphabet, an older system of transliteration tended to use "ch" to indicate the guttural sound, somewhat similar to German "ich" or "echt" (though the sound is actually pronounced quite differently by those Hebrew-speakers who also speak Arabic).  A newer and more scholarly system of transliteration tends not to use "ch" but rather h; for greater precision, scholars often put a dot under this h to indicate that this is the 8th letter of the Hebrew alphabet (het) and not the 5th letter heh- pronounced like h in harry, or else silent at the end of words as is the final letter in Hanukkah itself).  
    OK, enough already ... happy Hanukkah or happy holidays and good night.

    Parent
    I promptly forgot all of the Hebrew I memorized (none / 0) (#32)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:42:39 PM EST
    for my Bar Mitzvah. I think I could still recognize about half of the letters from the Aleph Bet.

    Parent
    Hey, thanks for the lesson! (none / 0) (#35)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 11:10:04 PM EST
    I always wondered a bit how that worked.

    But just FYI, the German "ch" in "ich" is soft (like the English "huge"), the "ch" in "echt" is hard.

    Parent

    ch in German (none / 0) (#42)
    by noholib on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 08:43:21 AM EST
    Thanks for your German lesson too!

    Parent
    Melek HaOlam (none / 0) (#41)
    by robrecht on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 08:24:24 AM EST
    Yes, I too would use an h but only if I could put a dot under it.  Since I can't do that here, I stick with the old "Ch" stadby since it should somehow be distinguished from a He (5th letter of Hebrew alphabet) or the typical English "h" sound.

    BTW, your explanation of the Dagash Chazak conflates the two different functions of the Dagash Chazak and the Dagesh Qal.  The former doubles the consonent, while the latter slightly alters the pronunciation.  This conflation makes sense in modern Hebrew, but less so in ancient Hebrew, or at least not for the Massoretes.

    Parent

    dagesh revisited (none / 0) (#44)
    by noholib on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 08:56:22 AM EST
    Thank you for now introducing Dagesh Qal into the discussion too! Yes, you're absolutely right that the two dageshim perform absolutely different functions.  Here I was simply explaining that the dagesh was doing its doubling work. I thought the intricacies of the often related Dagesh Qal and Sheva (small half-vowel sound) beyond the scope of this list. Since Modern Hebrew does not write out all the vowels, much of this knowledge is increasingly esoteric, but still important for printed religious texts. And these debates about how to spell Hanukkah in English do reveal the traces of the grammatical rules of Biblical and Classical Hebrew.

    Parent
    The joys of an open thread! (none / 0) (#46)
    by robrecht on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 09:42:14 AM EST


    Parent
    mea culpa - my error! (none / 0) (#49)
    by noholib on Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 03:07:20 PM EST
    You are absolutely right.  I did mix up the two kinds of dagesh!  It took a morning in synagogue to jog my memory and remind me that in fact this dagesh in the "kaf" of Hanukah (the k here) is actually the dagesh qal (coming after the long vowel "u", this is in accord with the third rule of early modern grammarian Elijah Levita who has a great mnemonic device for this, except that my memory wasn't working earlier, perhaps because I was so astounded in the first place to see any discussion of dagesh on talkleft!) So you were right, this k is in fact not doubled; the dagesh simply tells us that it is "k" and not "kh" in this position.  So I wonder why the Israeli newspaper Ha-Aretz transliterates the holiday as Hanukkah.  Probably someone there also got mixed up between strong and weak dagesh! Oh well, grammar can be fun in any language, and it's never-ending.

    Parent
    I defer to your superior knowledge of dagesh! (none / 0) (#52)
    by robrecht on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 08:32:08 AM EST
    But I actually still seem to think it is a dagesh chazak (and qal), serving both functions here, after a short qibbuts, but, of course, I could be wrong about that.

    Parent
    I just realized ... (none / 0) (#53)
    by robrecht on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 10:21:16 AM EST
    ... that we are probably interpreting the vowel differently because you might be reading it as a shureq , based on modern Hebrew, and I am partial to classical Hebrew, especially when discussing vowels, of course.  Your shureq, if that is what you are reading, would have stemmed from the growing use, beginning even in classical times of one of the matres lectionis, prior to the more extensive use of vowels by the masoretes.  Whereas, I would be hearkening (love that word) back to the earlier form of the consonental form, and vocalizing with a qibbuts.

    It really doesn't matter to me, of course, especially given my much greater for inherent ambiguity of ancient consonental texts!  I generally prefer to interpret God and religios texts to be as ambiguous and mysterious as possible.  Allows for more freedom!

    Parent

    we're both right! (none / 0) (#54)
    by noholib on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 01:39:40 PM EST
    Yes, good for you for figuring out the precise source of our disagreement! At home, where I am now, I have only the Megiddo Modern Heb-Eng. dictionary.  Still, it provides the answer: both spellings, exactly as you indicated! So, I think the final answer is: (1)with shureq, the dagesh in the k is weak dagesh(kal or qal), (2)but with qibbuts, the dagesh in the k is a strong dagesh (hazak)which doubles the k, so that one k closes the first syllable and the second K starts the second syllable; in this latter case, that strong dagesh automatically becomes a weak dagesh (causing the pronunciation to be k rather than kh)!  
    Now it should be clear why there are so many variations on how to spell name of this holiday in English, owing to different Hebrew spellings going back centuries (thus k or kk toward the end) and owing to different modern systems of transliteration into English (ch or h at the beginning).
    Wouldn't you say that this exchange qualifies for the traditional Jewish category of "an argument for the sake of heaven"?!!  I just can't believe that we kept thinking about these posts.  
    Further, it shows the tremendous diversity of the readership of this wonderful blog!
    I came here during the '08 primary and while I read blogs a lot less now than I did then, when I do so, this is the one I check. I still expect to find sensible, rational, critical discourse here.  I just never expected to find classical Hebrew grammar!

    Parent
    Shammai is right, but follow Hillel (none / 0) (#55)
    by robrecht on Mon Dec 14, 2009 at 09:24:16 PM EST
    I love the arguments of Shammai and Hillel.  Delightfully stylized to show the inadequacy of any one perspective to adequately capture the depths of mystery of the reality that surrounds us all.  

    Parent
    We were on the road (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 03:24:32 AM EST
    I wanted to make latkes.  It's an excuse to try to learn to cook something and there are now so many recipes to try.  Joshua is such a picky eater but he will eat potato. Perhaps next year we will be home.

    Happy Chanukah | 55 comments (55 topical)

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