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Free Traders For Keynes

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Economy
Posted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:16:06 PM EST
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Drum writes:

[I]f free traders really want to keep protectionist sentiment tamped down, they'd be well advised to start supporting domestic policies that create jobs, bring down unemployment, and reduce the kind of financial fear that drives protectonist sentiment in the first place.

Let me see - free trader? Check. Supported domestic policies to bring down unemployment? Check. I got this covered since, oh September 2008. President Obama? Not so much. Though he was a "fair trader" for a couple of weeks in Ohio. Uh oh. No pom poms.

Speaking for me only

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    Free Traders For Keynes | 20 comments (20 topical)

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    So (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:38:49 PM EST
    the creative class hasnt a clue. What else is new?

    But are you ready for some (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:36:57 PM EST
    Glass Steagall again because we ain't going to make it through this without it and the Fed has got to stop propping up the traders and gamblers who have somehow now become Fed banks........Oh God.  Now I'm going to be sick.

    in order to use Glass Steagall (none / 0) (#8)
    by The Last Whimzy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:23:55 PM EST
    as a single source point of failure, you first have to make the following statement:

    "We most assuredly would have seen the same economic collapse even if Al Gore had been president."

    .. ..presumably because Glass Steagall would have still been in effect during a Gore administration.

    or perhaps one could say "I believe Gore would have overturned Glass Steagall, that's what he said he would do and that's why I voted for him."

    but i've seen glass steagall get flogged by enough progressives at this point, and only ever came across one who would actually make the statement:

    "We most assuredly would have seen the same economic collapse even if Al Gore had been president."

    which i thought showed some logical consistency even if I still disagreed.

    Parent

    And I did that? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 07:47:28 AM EST
    I used it as a single source point of failure?

    Parent
    It's just my opinion (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 07:54:09 AM EST
    Mine alone....the lack of such legislation at this time has allowed for there to be bucket shops that are FDIC insured, and they are currently the only game in town now in a town where people just can't get over playing the game.  And I think Paul Volcker agrees with me but he's 82 years old for crying out loud.  Nobody wants to listen to the wise old man and they don't think they have to either.  His ideas are outdated, he never caught up to the brand new REAL world :)

    Parent
    STOP! (none / 0) (#3)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:03:57 PM EST
    With the pom poms, already!

    Read Krugman today (none / 0) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:58:23 PM EST
    Topic: unemployment; almost 500 comments, universal anti-Obama vitriol.

    Devastating!

    If Obama's 2012 strategy is "Democrats, where ya gonna go?" I got news for you; buy Netflix stock. They're gonna break every sales record standing come election day Nov. 2012.

    (See trailer Nov. 2010)


    I've been ticked (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 08:06:30 PM EST
    that Krugman had no criticism for Bernanke.  I suppose he feels that Bernanke did and has done the only things he could to attempt to stop the immediate capsizing of all of us.  It is time to break up those too large to fail now.

    Parent
    I noticed one commenter had in there (none / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 08:15:00 PM EST
    something about "What if Petreaus decides to run as a Republican?"  If I were Obama I think I would be concerned about that....that Republican who thinks that the only way to govern a people is if you make them happy and he has all this evidence of arguing for such solutions.

    Parent
    Krugman is trying (none / 0) (#7)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:20:56 PM EST
    to get his point across without excessive Obama bashing. He knows everyone now knows he was right, and the Bubble Boys in the Administration were dead wrong.  Bashing Bernake, Geithner, Summers, etc isn't necessary. The daily headlines are doing that for him.

    But my point was that Obama, in spite of the Republican descent into moral and cognitive turpitude, is in serious danger of being blown out in '12. The anger that's brewing out there is really palatable. The idea that Democrats would never vote Republican is just plain nuts. I think the rage is growing to a point where many will vote republican, and many will just stay home. Underestimating the anger is O's biggest danger.

    I remember the riots back in the 60's, where many AA's burned down whole sections of their communities. The conventional wisdom was, "boy, aren't they stupid; they're burning down the very buildings they live in." But I understood it; the frustration was just so great, no one was listening, and they felt they just had to "let it out," the Hell with the consequences.

    I think Obama is heading in the same direction, where the anger, and disappointment, is so great that even if it means destroying ourselves to teach Obama (and the Dems) a lesson they'll never forget, it'll be worth it.

    Parent

    the lesson will always be forgotten (none / 0) (#9)
    by The Last Whimzy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:38:36 PM EST
    at some point.

    Parent
    Great Post, NYShooter (none / 0) (#11)
    by BrassTacks on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:14:41 PM EST
    Why don't Congress and Obama GET this?  How can they NOT know about the anger out here?  I see it and feel it, every single day.  People are scared, and they very angry.  Is Congress and the President THAT out of touch, or do they just not friggin' care?   I'm beginning to think that it's the later.  They DO NOT CARE.  I am ready to throw every last one of the OUT.  

    Parent
    My Post from Salon (none / 0) (#12)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:33:46 PM EST
    Saturday, February 2, 2008 12:37 PM
    Original article: "Campaign wrap"

    We Never Learn
    A year or two from now (should Obama be elected) and the electorate has sobered up, the mantra will be "what were we thinking?" Lyndon Johnson's "mushroom cloud behind the little girl," Reagan's "there you go again," G. Bush's "who would you want a beer with?" and now Obama's "Ch, Ch, Ch. Change." "Bring us together?" How many times have we heard that before? How about every candidate from Richard Nixon to GWB. "Reach across the aisle?" How many 49-0 votes before you get a clue? For God's sake, 100 year, Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, McCain isn't conservative enough for their base, and the party of Willie Horton is going agree to a group hug? We have national mania (psychosis?) taking place, and when the Presidency is ours for the taking, and when we have a seasoned, nuts and bolts wonk, ready to begin the reconstruction, along comes a fantasy man,

    and out go our brains.


    Parent

    yeah, but you know (none / 0) (#13)
    by cpinva on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:59:19 PM EST
    and when we have a seasoned, nuts and bolts wonk, ready to begin the reconstruction,

    they would have trashed her. oh, wait, they did trash her!

    never mind.

    Parent

    Sadly most people (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 07:39:29 AM EST
    really didn't believe Krugman at first.  I think the only ones who did were goofy types who pondered economics too often and too much.  Now that people are starting to hurt they are beginning to track this situation backwards looking for the hows and whys.  The general population is so angry right now, while Krugman months and months ago wrote about feelings of disappointment, doubt, and serious frustration in the decisions being made and all the while being ridiculed and called a hack and dismissed by every leader we have.  I well remember one of his recent writings where he spelled out that his arguing for much different decisions would not be listened to until things worsened so he was going to quit putting his energy into those making those literally worthless arguments and I understand where he is coming from.  He isn't a wasteful person or a person who looks for opportunity to brood and wail.  People are becoming so angry though.  And I think that Dems particularly in the blogosphere really do think that it is literally "Where ya gonna Go?" for voters and ridiculously think that hurting distressed people won't vote for a Petreaus or a Ron Paul or a Ralph Nader (the three not being equal in my mind outside of the fact that they aren't Democrats).

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 08:51:10 AM EST
    I think that most of the "creative class" is pretty clueless in general. Bill Clinton had Obama's supporters pegged correctly last year when he said that his supporters don't need a president. And that is exactly how Obama has behaved since coming into office. He seems to have nothing but disdain for the middle class in his policies.

    Parent
    My unemployed offspring read me selected (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:58:28 PM EST
    snippets of Krugman today.  

    Parent
    I know that Krugman has said (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 07:46:08 AM EST
    that he was going to stop making arguments that nobody was listening to, but he may need to return to something along those lines because people are beginning to search now and desire to listen.  If he begins to make those arguments again will cheerleaders and apologists make the knee jerk response of looking for anyway to kick him again and refuse to look at the argument in its entirety and what he is addressing as a whole?  If he makes those arguments is that going to get him crossed off of all White House get togethers again?  It is very encouraging to me that people are seeking now.  Will he be silent on much of this though until there is another large economic disturbance like many of us think we see looming on the horizon again?

    Parent
    well tracy, (none / 0) (#19)
    by cpinva on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 09:20:48 AM EST
    aside from enjoying the sound of your own keyboard/voice, what's the point, if no one with pull is actually listening/heeding?

    it's not as if dr. krugman needs the work, he doesn't. it's also become painfully obvious that obama not only has little economics chops (not surprising for an atty.), but that his advisors are bound and determined to repeat, ad infinitum, the mistakes of the past, as if by doing so, the past, and thus the present, will somehow change.

    it won't.

    BTD, i'm all for "free trade", as long as it's also "fair trade". aye, there be the rub, it isn't. as long as industry in other countries operate in a dickensian manner, with respect to labor and the environment, our industry will be at an unfair competative disadvantage.

    the only viable alternatives are either protectionist trade tarifs, or outsourcing to those countries. clearly, this would be disasterous (think: smoot/hawley).

    this was the fatal flaw of NAFTA.

    Parent

    Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#20)
    by NYShooter on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 09:55:01 AM EST
    There was one comment during Clinton's campaign for the Presidency that locked up my support for him. When asked by a reporter if he would continue Reagan's economic policy of skewing the benefits to the rich, Clinton answered, "Of course, under a Clinton Presidency the rich will get richer, BUT so will the poor, and so will the middle class. My economic policy is very simple, `a rising tide lifts all boats,' for only when everyone enjoys the fruits of an improving economy equally will I consider my policies a success."

    Free Traders For Keynes | 20 comments (20 topical)

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