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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

I'm going to share my thoughts with you on something almost none of you care about -- should Joe Girardi have started A.J. Burnett on short rest last night? I actually told my father before the game that I would have held Burnett back for Game 6 because he was better at Yankee Stadium than on the road (Burnett had a good history starting with 3 days rest.) So I am doing an "I told you so" now? No. Thinking about it, I was wrong and Girardi was right. [More...]

Why? Because A.J. Burnett was more than capable of giving up 6 runs in 2+ innings on regular rest, with extra rest, with no rest, on the road, at Yankee Stadium, etc. In short, you never have a clue what Burnett will do in any particular start. Girardi was right to use him against Cliff Lee. If Burnett had one of his good nights, then you would have a chance against a sharp Lee. If Lee was off, then a good Burnett would beat him. You were going to start Burnett in one of the last 3 anyway and a Burnett start was always going to be a roll of the dice. Might as well roll them in Game 5 against Cliff Lee. Now you have Andy Petitte, who will almost certainly give you a chance to win in Game 6, and C.C. Sabathia, who will almost certainly give you a chance to win a Game 7. Not pitching Burnett in Game 5 would have meant Gaudin vs. Lee, an improbable matchup for the Yankees, Burnett in Game 6, a crap shoot, and Sabathia in Game 7. Girardi made the right decision.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Thursday Afternoon? (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:14:14 PM EST
    Please, I am confused enough with the Japan to US time shift. Don't be freaking me out.

    It will be a bad sign (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:22:06 PM EST
    for Yankee fans like me if I am writing about baseball on Thursday afternoon.

    Fixed, thanks.

    Parent

    I thought maybe you were writing a (none / 0) (#6)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:28:32 PM EST
    fantasy  post-victory post. Then I remembered you are not Maureen Dowd.

    Parent
    When my teams win (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:35:25 PM EST
    I celebrate right after and then move on.

    the happiness is all inside. I never understood trash talking the fans of other teams. Never enjoyed it. Do not understand why others do.

    When I played, I never understood the compulsion to trash talk. It was always weird to me.

    Parent

    I know (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:43:11 PM EST
    I was raised that it is bad sportsmanship to boo and jeer the other team. Cheer for your own team as much as you want, but don't trash talk the other guys. But that was a long time ago.

    I never applied those lessons to political opponents however.

    Parent

    Back in the day (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:04:59 PM EST
    we had a big game my freshman year when Michigan State played Indiana for the right to go to the Rose Bowl.  (Try to believe that it was down to those two teams - you can't!)

    Michigan State won big.  On the way out of the stadium, my friends and I walked past this couple in Indiana garb, some pleasant-looking older couple.  I don't remember exactly what I said to them, it wasn't anything too horrible, but it was definitely a taunt of some type.

    They stopped and the older gentleman turned to me.  "Son, the better team won today, and I wish you all the best in the Rose Bowl."  They turned away and resumed trudging to their car.

    I learned quite the lesson about class that day.

    Parent

    Good story (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:07:42 PM EST
    and I think you made it up.

    Indiana and Michigan State playing for the conference championship? Not in basketball?

    No. You made it up.

    Parent

    Ha! (none / 0) (#48)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:19:54 PM EST
    Our basketball team was horrible that year.  I think we won 10 games.  I got my picture in the school paper because my friends all decided to wear bags on their head at one game.

    If you had told me that we would never get a return trip to the Rose Bowl within the next 20 years, but our basketball team would become one of the top 5 programs in the nation, I would have thought you were completely insane.

    Parent

    Izzo is a great coach (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:28:11 PM EST
    He sure is (none / 0) (#53)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:31:22 PM EST
    and even back in those days, when Izzo was the top recruiter, people had high hopes for him as the designated successor.  But absolutely no one thought the program would ever get to this point.

    Parent
    H1N1 vaccine (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:11:43 PM EST
    Now the WH says Gitmo detainees are not getting vaccinated.

    I knew the original plan was bad politically. It was only a matter of time before they walked this back. How can they be so dumb?

    Another example of "overpromised." (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:22:36 PM EST
    (Axelrod's term for lack of vaccine.)

    Parent
    Got my DH's (none / 0) (#60)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 03:05:21 AM EST
    Princeton magazine today, and read it while waiting for the bus.  Apparently, most of "our" vaccine production is done overseas and pharma isn't much interested in making vaccines because it's not profitable enough.

    Wall Street is partly to blame for the pursuit of higher profits.  I can just imagine the noise if the government got into the actual production of vaccines.  The antivaxxers would be bouncing off the walls.

    Anyone have a solution?

    Parent

    I'm thinking government contracts. (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 10:01:49 AM EST
    Probably (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:20:28 PM EST
    no health care bill this year:

    Senior Congressional Democrats told ABC News today it is highly unlikely that a health care reform bill will be completed this year, just a week after President Barack Obama declared he was "absolutely confident" he'll be able to sign one by then.

    President Obama's holding the line at an even division in public views on health care reform, boosted by support for two key elements -- a personal mandate and a public option -- and aided by continued weakness in the opposition party.
    "Getting this done by the by the end of the year is a no-go," a senior Democratic leadership aide told ABC News. Two other key Congressional Democrats also told ABC News the same thing.

    This may come as an unwelcome surprise for the White House, where officials from the president on down have repeatedly said the health care bill would be signed into law by the end of the year.



    Ah, well, no one said calendar year (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Cream City on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:54:04 PM EST
    so maybe they meant fiscal year.

    For that matter, did Obama say which year?  I think it was just "the" year. :-)

    Parent

    And here I thought you were going to weigh (none / 0) (#4)
    by Teresa on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:23:02 PM EST
    in on Spike's suspension.

    BTD, I don't agree with you. My Vols are back, sort of. We have about 6 defensive players out and now have to start a true freshman at middle linebacker for the rest of the year but with them all healthy, I like my team (black on Halloween and all).

    Meyer was stupid (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:33:37 PM EST
    He should have suspended him for the game. Hell, it's Vandy. Spikes has a bad groin already. the defense is fine without him. stupid of Urban if you ask me.

    Now, as for all the screaming about what Spikes did  --- puhleeeeeaze. Dirty play in a pile up? I'm shocked!!

    I remember when Joe Greene punched a guard for the Broncos in the stomach. The guard had stepped on him or something.

    Spikes got caught so you have to suspend him but my golly, people are acting like Spikes shot someone.

    The Vols btw, are NOT back imo. You lose all your best players next year. Lane is NOT a good football coach (Monte is one of the best ever.) And Nu'Keese wants to transfer.

    Parent

    Nope Nu'Keese is staying he said. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Teresa on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:38:52 PM EST
    How can you look at our offensive statistics and not say Lane can coach at least a quarterback? You just don't like him because of his mouth, lol.

    I agree with you on Spikes. It happens all the time and he got caught. I also agree they Meyer would have gotten better PR by suspending him for a full game.

    Gator fans like to come to our board and post a picture of one of our players untying a shoelace at the bottom of the pile. Now I know I've seen the last of that so that's good.

    Have you seen Nu'Keese try to field a punt? Myer wouldn't let him either.

    Parent

    Mark it down (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:41:42 PM EST
    He's gonna transfer. And Lane does not really care. You know why? Cuz he never was all that in the first place. I guarantee you Florida does not want him.

    BTW, someone sane on the Spikes incident:

    "A most unlikely person came to the defense of Florida linebacker Brandon Spikes, who was suspended for half a game for apparently trying to gouge the eyes of Georgia running back Washaun Ealey. Ealey said Tuesday he doesn't believe Spikes should have been suspended. In fact, Ealey seemed surprised the play from Saturday's game drew so much attention. Ealey says he doesn't agree with those who have said the suspension was not stiff enough.

    "That really didn't matter to me," Ealey said of the suspension. "That's their decision. He shouldn't, I think, get suspended at all. We were just out there playing football." The freshman said he believes similar incidents happen all the time. "I'm pretty sure it goes on back and forth," he said. "We probably do it and other teams do too. It's all football. We're just out there trying to have fun.""

    Good for him.

    Parent

    Reminds me of the 13-year old (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:55:51 PM EST
    Polanski victim.  

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:58:31 PM EST
    You must be joking.

    Parent
    Not at all. In both instances alleged victim (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:01:57 PM EST
    says, do not proceed against the perp.  Not the same situation of course, and a 13-year old girl is much more vulnerable and the crime committed against her most likely much more damaging to her mental health than what "Spike" did.  Plus he only attempted.

    Parent
    Rape and a dirty play in a footbal game? (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:04:58 PM EST
    In the same sentence? Does not register for me.

    Parent
    Jeralyn is going to get you. Doesn't (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:11:14 PM EST
    even want us to use the term "statutory rape."  But, nevertheless, I agree.  He raped her.

    Parent
    Big difference (none / 0) (#39)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:06:24 PM EST
    She didn't want a trial because it would have meant even more pain for her.  In this case, the "victim" genuinely doesn't think it was any big deal.  Really different situations.

    Parent
    I saw that earlier. I also saw a clip of some (none / 0) (#17)
    by Teresa on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:49:48 PM EST
    not so nice things Georgia did in the game so it's not that big of a deal to me.

    I don't care if Nu'Keese does transfer. He may think he is Percy Harvin but he's not. Plus he is an accident waiting to happen when he touches the ball. Our #10 freshman had never played receiver before and look how well he's playing. I'd rather have him.

    I mainly meant how much better we look this year compared to last year. I know we lose some good players this year including Berry and I think most of the offensive line but heck, 2 of them are walk ons. That's how thin we are.

    Oh well, I'll still root for you over Bama in the championship game. You know I live in the Bible Belt so Tebow is the man here too. The fans hate FL but love Tebow.

    Parent

    Harvin? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:57:58 PM EST
    Sheesh, the other freshman receiver you have is 10 times better.

    Nu'Keese is from my hometown and now any player from Pahokee is supposed to be great. Not all of them are. He was always overrated imo.

    (Psst, I think Bryce Brown is overrated too, but he is a lot better than Richardson.)

    Hardesty is a terrific player. Definitely will play Sundays.

    And Eric Berry is the best DB in the country. Fullmer had good players.

    Parent

    Yeah, I'm very happy for Hardesty. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Teresa on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:17:38 PM EST
    He has had terrible luck with injuries until this year.

    You know Berry has twin little brothers? One says he's coming to TN the other to LSU. Eric says they are better than he was at that age. We'll see, I doubt it.

    I think if Berry's dad hadn't been a Vol, he'd have gone to GA.

    Nice to talk football with you BTD. I hope your Yankees win. My ex-husband was from NJ and took me to several games and converted me but I don't keep up like I used to.

    Parent

    The Plum Line (none / 0) (#5)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:27:54 PM EST
    has a few decent stories today.  One, Obama is sending out an email encouraging support for the public option package.  Good.  He also seems to be doing some work behind the scenes.

    But this is soooo funny:

    "Compared to Obama, Bush does fairly well among southerners and rural voters. But even in those categories, a majority still says Obama has done a better job than Bush," says Holland.

    lullllllz.  Sometimes I miss Bush a little bit, for moments of absurdity like these.

    It's a completely ridiculous poll (none / 0) (#8)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:34:51 PM EST
    1. Bush is gone and not coming back, and
    2. It compares Bush's 8 years to Obama's months.  My guess is, if the question compared Bush's first 9 months (without the knowledge of the subsequent 7 years), Bush would blow him away.  Why?  Hmmm...what happened in Bush's first 9 months in office?  It escapes me at the moment, but at this time in his presidency, Bush had something like an 80-90% approval rating.


    Parent
    In reverse order (none / 0) (#16)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:48:45 PM EST
    1.  Well, yeah...the question is what it is.

    2.  People down here do not like Obama.  Some think that this President, whose victory represents the progress of a greatly oppressed people, is actually the King of Evil, the AntiChrist).  [now that's funny.]  

    And I figured nostalgia would work in Bush's favor.

    Parent
    We'll see if both Petitte and Sabathia ... (none / 0) (#11)
    by cymro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:41:10 PM EST
    ... can now pitch successfully on 3 days' rest.

    Sabathia has already (none / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:43:02 PM EST
    Petitte will be fine too.

    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#15)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:43:32 PM EST
    Joe left Burnett in for one pitch too many.


    Indeed, the first one (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:53:52 PM EST
    Heh. here's the funny thing - Burnett rarely if ever rights the ship in game.

    Once he got dinged in the first, it was Katy bar the door, just a question of when and how much.

    Parent

    petitte (none / 0) (#18)
    by jharp on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:50:45 PM EST
    I would have waited and pitched A.J. Burnett in game 6.

    I think you rate Petitte too highly. I know, I know that Petite's numbers are good yet I just don't think he has that good of stuff and is quite beatable compared to a rested Burnett.

    A rested Burnett (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:52:53 PM EST
    has been tattoed too many times for me to count.

    Have you watched A.J. Burnett over the course of the season? There is no doubt in my mind, none, that the chances of Petitte keeping me in a ball game are higher than of Burnett doing so.

    Of course, Burnett is also capable of pitching a one hitter and winning the game all by himself.

    A complete crapshoot.

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 08:09:02 PM EST
    He is also capable of pitching a No Hitter and walking nine at the same time. Really He Can

    My apologies to Oculus for this particular Box Score.

    Parent

    Ha. Actually, that was a pretty good (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 08:27:27 PM EST
    Padres team.  

    Parent
    Here's another question: Why is every pitch to (none / 0) (#19)
    by steviez314 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:52:24 PM EST
    Chase Utley that he hit for a HR in the exact same spot?  That Fox Box has 9 small boxes..maybe they should try aiming for a different one.  Or even think outside the box!

    Utley is on fire (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:55:04 PM EST
    It's not like every pitch thrown to him was in his wheelhouse. He fouls off more than a few pitches before he got the one he wanted.

    If I am Girardi, I am telling my guys nothing good to hit at all. Walk him.  

    Parent

    Why hasn't that happened before game 6? (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:58:02 PM EST
    Howard (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:59:39 PM EST
    Even in a slump, you have to fear him.

    Parent
    Absolutely. Which is why (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:03:13 PM EST
    Burnett probably won't intentionally walk Utley tomorrow night.  

    Parent
    Pettite? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:04:07 PM EST
    Oh, yes, Pettite. I'm trying to forget (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:06:29 PM EST
    he will be the Yankees starter.  Come on Pedro, you sd. you are the best in Yankee Stadium.  Now prove it.

    Parent
    Who's his daddy? (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:09:19 PM EST
    Next question: should Charlie Manuel (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:59:07 PM EST
    have started Cliff Lee in game 4?

    No (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:00:50 PM EST
    Lee has never pitched on short rest.

    On regular rest, he has been the Mariano rivera of starters, automatic. You take the 2 wins and see if you can scratch out 2 other games.

    Parent

    Burnett (none / 0) (#30)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 05:59:42 PM EST
    has a great track record on short rest.  I don't think rest was the issue.  This wasn't a case of leaving Pedro Martinez in for an inning too long (which, you may have noticed, they still do).

    The larger issue is this whole strategy of trying to win the World Series with only 3 pitchers.  No one has done it since the 1991 Twins.

    Yanks do not have a 4th starter (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:03:42 PM EST
    Surely the idea of starting Gaudin or Joba was a nonstarter (pun intended.)

    Having Sabathia with experience and success on 3 days rest made it a no brainer for Girardi, at least with regard to Sabathia.

    The only question was whether to do it with Burnett. I thought at first, being up 3-1, maybe not, but thinking it through, I think Girardi was right.

    Parent

    I liked what Lee sd. after last night's win (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:05:20 PM EST
    when asked if he could pitch game 7 if there was a game 7.  He sd., I'll be ready, but you would be better off asking Charlie Manuel that question.

    Pads' experience with Kevin Brown, who bragged he could win on three days rest--he didn't.

    Parent

    Lee is a stud (none / 0) (#41)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:07:25 PM EST
    In my life I have never seen a performance like his Game 1 win.  Complete mastery.

    Parent
    He is! Loved his nonchalant catch of (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:08:30 PM EST
    pop up followed by behind the back thriller.  

    Parent
    I have gone back and forth on this (none / 0) (#50)
    by fuzzyone on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:25:20 PM EST
    I hated, and still hate, the idea of Gaudin starting against Lee.  You have no chance in that game and you don't get another start out of Andy.  At the end I agree with you, Burnett did not suck becuase of short rest, he just sucks sometimes.  I also felt a lot better after they almost came back.  Our pen and pets are looking better and I love the idea of Andy beating Pedro at our new house to win #27.  

    "Pets"? (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:28:06 PM EST
    Bear kills militants in Kashmir. See TL (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:52:51 PM EST
    sidebar, which links to Drudge Report.  MT, what do you think of this?

    Me thinks a bear den (none / 0) (#55)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 06:59:27 PM EST
    is not the best place to hide out . . .

    Parent
    This makes no sense (none / 0) (#56)
    by diogenes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 07:15:18 PM EST
    How can BTD be so right when writing about baseball and so wrong when writing about politics?

    Try being a Vol fan & having to agree (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Teresa on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 07:21:43 PM EST
    with that Jim person. :)

    Parent
    Much noise over Maine. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 03:52:01 AM EST
    I don't know why.  My research after the California and Florida anti-LGBT initiatives last year showed that the Right has an organized, coherent strategy of targeting a few states, putting a lot of resources into anti-gay ballot measures and winning almost all of the time.

    At last count, there were twenty some states that had passed these measures.  We are probably close to thirty now.

    The reason is pretty simple.  Put a lot of resources and organization on a national level up against a much smaller set on a state level and you win.  If people want to defeat these measures, they need a national level response.

    This LINK has incomplete data (up to 2007) but paints a clear picture.

    Yankees had to win 1 out of 3 games. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Samuel on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 09:07:18 AM EST
    Rushing AJ Burnett against Cliff Lee was a terrible decision.  You have to win one game.  Junk it up in game 5 so that your 6 and 7 starters are rested.

    Sabathia is going to get lit up if there's a game 7.  Phillies are 2-1 against him in the playoffs over the last 2 years, will see him for the third time in 7 games and he'll be pitching on short rest again.  Chase Utley owns him and taking CC Sabathia under pressure over the Phillies offensive lineup under pressure is iffy.  Cole just has to bring the right Pokeball this time...CURVEBALL I CHOOSE YOU!  

    After Pedro... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 09:13:07 AM EST
    gets it done tonight, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cliff Lee on the hill on 2 days rest.

    Parent
    Cliff Lee (none / 0) (#65)
    by Samuel on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 01:16:49 PM EST
    I CHOOSE YOU!  Gotta pitch em all!  

    Parent
    I'd take Lee... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 01:31:36 PM EST
    on 2 days rest over a well-rested Hamels coming off a fresh 'roid cycle.

    Parent