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Sunday Evening Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 04:42:34 PM EST
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Well, it's not quite nightfall, but I'm on my way out for the evening, so here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Sunday Evening Open Thread | 87 comments (87 topical)

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    Is it permissible to gripe about how (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:30:54 PM EST
    early it is getting dark?  (If the griper hasn't ventured outside in the sunlight?)  Going, . . .

    Yes, absolutely. I just made that comment to my (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Angel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:22:03 PM EST
    husband a short while ago.  Still, we had an amazing sunset at 6 pm.  My poor little puppies are confused about the time change, wanted their dinner at 5:30 instead of 6:30.  We compromised and gave it to them at 6 o'clock which is 7 o'clock on their bodies.  They think we are being mean.  

    Parent
    6PM? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:30:26 PM EST
    You got at least an hour more sun than I did.

    I need to start rethinking my long dog walk/park times now and adjust the Dot. Those 4PM romps are going to be ending in the dark before I know it.

    Parent

    Ouch! I would go bonkers if it got dark here any (none / 0) (#30)
    by Angel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:50:41 PM EST
    earlier.  I love the daylight too much.

    Parent
    But.... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 07:57:31 AM EST
    the night time is the right time.

    And the sunshine bores the daylights outta me...:)

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#14)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:18:34 PM EST
    I hate it.  The one saving grace of winter is that the shortest day of the year is December 22 (or 21st? Can't remember), and then the days get longer as we head into the worst part of winter.

    Parent
    I have shocking news. (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Tony on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:25:29 PM EST
    Lanny Davis think liberals should drop the public option.  And they should stop being so mean to Joe Lieberman, a man of "integrity and sincerity."  Enjoy the sanctimony.
    Whew....... (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:33:57 PM EST
    Fellow Democrats, fellow liberals: Let's reach out to Republicans and independents in the country, show them we are willing to compromise and give up the public option, and let's get a national health insurance bill passed that provides virtual universal and guaranteed health insurance coverage ... at long last.

    I don't want virtual coverage....I want real coverage

    Parent

    You forgot the most important part! (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by nycstray on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:45:20 PM EST
    Yes, we can.

    lol!~

    Parent

    Heard senior editor of Newsweek on (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:53:26 PM EST
    All Things Considered this afternoon.  Comparing FDR and Obama's first 100 days.  Apparently all we were promised by the latter was change. Jonathon Alter?  Must check.

    Parent
    I thought we were only promised (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by nycstray on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:16:19 PM EST
    any real change if we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps and fixed things ourselves . . . ?

    Parent
    "Integrity and sincerity" (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:17:19 PM EST
    This is not far from Obama's description of Holy Joe as a "man with a good heart, with a keen intellect, who cares about the working families of America".

    Yep.

    That's my Joe: Sincere. Intelligent. Caring. Integrityness.


    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#25)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:42:41 PM EST
    Who listens to Lanny Davis? I'm thinking the only time he manages to get on TV these days is when those worn out moderators can't get a worthwhile face to show up.

    Parent
    Lanny (none / 0) (#38)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:25:43 PM EST
    Is "Lanny" short for some kind of name?
    I've heard of "Lenny" and "Danny". But "Lanny"?

    Lannerd? Landiel? Landmine?

    Parent

    Byline bio neatly omits (none / 0) (#64)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 05:32:01 AM EST
    the fact that Lanny Davis is treasurer of Lieberman's PAC.

    Parent
    Why let a little thing like the truth get in the (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Angel on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:10:05 AM EST
    way?

    Parent
    Senseless survey (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:51:12 PM EST
    How many more rec list diaries discussing the horror of Glenn Greenwald calling people cheerleaders does Orange have left in it?  If the shoe doesn't fit, why do y'all care so damned much?

    Why punish yourself? (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 11:43:16 PM EST


    Parent
    Not a problem... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Fabian on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 04:04:09 AM EST
    I enjoy finding out what the state their state is in.  Nothing like a pie fight to find out where people stand.

    It is interesting too.  The recent rape diaries revealed a couple users to be supporters of "Guns are THE Solution!" meme.  The male rape diary revealed one user whose reaction was uniformly "If he didn't take those risks, it wouldn't have happened!".  This blame-the-victim sentiment can be read as "It will never happen to me because I wouldn't do that!".  

    You'll find one in every crowd, but they may not be who you'd expect them to be.  Ditto for the Obama diaries.  One person made blanket negative assertions about Greenwald in a consistent attack-the-messenger style.  Exactly who it was took me by surprise.

    I'm learning a lot about the behavior groups and individuals.

    Parent

    Just talked to my husband (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:37:14 PM EST
    He said that he is glad that he went and did this, but morale is getting low right now and people are very disheartened in having no strategy other than not listening to anyone wearing a uniform.  So many of them voted for Obama, it is hard to believe that he has sunk them all in spirit so quickly.  Minus a miracle, with people facing 15 month deployments and no real support from the commander for the increasingly difficult mission, he won't be garnering the military vote next time that he did this term.

    What? "Not listening to anyone (none / 0) (#56)
    by oldpro on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 09:58:43 PM EST
    wearing a uniform?"

    He met with all his Joint Chiefs last week...first time a president ever did that and high time, too...and asked each chief how their service would be affected by the proposed changes.

    Keep in mind..."our military is broken..." and broke.  Oh, wait...

    Parent

    Sadly he met with them (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:29:28 AM EST
    but he isn't listening to any of them.  And in fact, the military thinks he is quite nuts at this point.

    Parent
    Our military is broken (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:30:34 AM EST
    but they are the ones dodging the bullets, they haven't lost their minds where that is concerned.

    Parent
    Rumors from aides are that we have (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:40:05 AM EST
    30,000 to 60,000 and we can even pullout 80,000 troops now to surge with, it has been a false rumor generated by the White House that we don't have the troop strength.  That confrontation of generating false rumors to twist the Pentagon with caused some fightin words at the table.  I hear that folks are accusing Rahm of doing most of this B.S. generating.  We have the numbers to surge, but probably not to maintain long term, and we are monetarily broke or at least we are supposed to be.  The military does not like being lied about though when it comes to their existing strength.  Recruitment since the crash and a new Presidency has been brisk.

    Parent
    See how unrewarding the opera beat (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:16:22 PM EST
    is?  Jeralyn's opera post only got one comment--mine.  

    Go Phillies.  

    Opera beats jazz. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Fabian on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:20:35 PM EST
    Listened to the jazz show this afternoon in the kitchen.  Remembered none of it.  At least annoying pop tunes have a hook!

    Parent
    Maybe it depends on the jazz? (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:23:33 PM EST
    NYT has taken to criticizing Wynton Marsalis lately for making jazz something other than "jazz."  

    Parent
    But is it "close enough"? (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by iconoclast59 on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:52:53 PM EST
    Reminds me of a running joke back from my days in HS jazz band.  We had a tenor sax player who was a real wag.  During warm-ups, we'd play B flat to get in tune, and inevitably the saxes would be a little off.  The tenor sax player would just shrug and say, "Ehh, close enough for jazz!"

    Longtime lurker, first time poster.  Found you guys during the 2008 primaries.  I was a Hillary supporter who was outraged at the blatant sexism in the MSM and some blogs like Big Orange.  It was nice to find like-minded souls.

    I'm pretty much on the same page as y'all on HCR as well.  My dream is single-payer, but I guess I'll settle for a robust PO.  I'm not seeing that in anything they've proposed thus far, nor am I seeing anything to address my #1 HC gripe, which is the mountains of invoices and paperwork one gets buried under whenever uses HC services.  Bills and payments cross each other in the mail, Dr's offices don't submit the necessary info to the insurance company, and/or don't tell you when the insurance co rejects their submission -- you only find out when the Dr's office comes after YOU instead for the payment.  Arrgh, just thinking about it gets me all worked up, so I'll leave it there for now.

    Personally, I'm a woman who hit the half-century mark this year.  No spouse, no kids.  I live in Chicagoland -- I think we're the only major US city whose citizens have given their metro area a Disney-esque moniker.  I live closer to Cream City than to Capt Howdy, whose posts I enjoy, along with MilitaryTracy, oculus, ChiTown Denny, and of course, Jeralyn and BTD.

    I'm not a lawyer, but I was engaged to one once.  Is that close enough?  I don't always feel smart or well-informed enough to jump into a discussion, but I enjoy reading what others have to say.  Anyway, back to lurking.

    Parent

    A female Jazz musician (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:01:15 PM EST
    Perhaps that is why Opera has beaten Jazz, not enough women yet.

    Parent
    You are right about that. (none / 0) (#44)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:01:30 PM EST
    In the meantime, people might want to check out the music of Jane Ira Bloom, Emily Remler, Eliane Elias, Renee Rosnes, Anat Cohen... there are many great women in jazz. They just don't get the attention unless they play the cutesty-pie-look-at-me-I'm-another-blonde-singer game.

    Parent
    Some more women: (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:23:03 PM EST
    Melba Liston was the greatest Jazz trombonist I ever heard.
    She also was a great arranger.

    Carol Tristano is a great drummer.

    Parent

    Excellent choices. (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:55:16 PM EST
    Randy Weston, who collaborated with Melba Liston for many years, referred to her in interviews as "my other half."

    Parent
    You should participate! (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 09:40:57 PM EST
    You probably know more than you think, and anyway, TL has some of the nicest commenters around. Welcome!

    The paperwork is good evidence of an inefficient health care delivery system. I have at times just paid the d*mn bill myself rather than go through the hassle of trying to get insurance to pay it.

    Parent

    Bingo! Your comments about (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by oldpro on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 09:46:29 PM EST
    billing and payment and turning us into a nation of bookkeepers is right on!  It drives me insane.  The stress levels from that alone has to account for half the medication needed to lower blood pressure.  A nasty circle...round and round we go.

    Parent
    Don't be shy. We need all the help (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:42:51 PM EST
    we can get.  Except for MT.

    Parent
    It's always been my opinion (none / 0) (#46)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:11:55 PM EST
    that someone who mouths the execrable phrase, "good enough for jazz", is someone who is looking for an excuse -- for not knowing how to play his or her instrument!

    Parent
    Now we have a jazz snob too? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:21:13 PM EST


    Parent
    There's one in every crowd, MT.... (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:47:42 PM EST
    ;-)

    Parent
    As a lawyer (none / 0) (#80)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 07:51:35 PM EST
    I feel I can say that being a lawyer does not make you smart or informed on any particular issue.  Since my training is corporate law, I learn as much from posts by Jeralyn and others on Constitutional law matters as you laymen do.  Only difference is I know some of the buzz words.  

    In short, welcome.

    Parent

    Wynton is an arrogant a$$hat (3.00 / 2) (#45)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:06:47 PM EST
    who has turned jazz into a museum piece for at least half the listening and paying public. He and his cohorts at the jazz museum (Jazz at Lincoln Center) are siphoning off all the dollars, stifling anyone who does not adhere to their view of jazz as it existed before 1960.

    There is good reason for anyone truly interested in the art form to ignore Wynton, now and forever.

    Parent

    And (4.00 / 3) (#47)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:19:26 PM EST
    he isn't even a great trumpet player.
    No Freddie Hubbard, that's for sure.
    How did he get to be the sage?
    Was there some back room conference as in the Vatican - and the smoke appears announcing our guru?


    Parent
    He wowed everybody when he was 21 and 22yo (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:44:17 PM EST
    playing with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers back in the early 1980's. I saw them live and can attest to how amazing his technique was. And owing to the fact he was playing with Blakey's band, he was even able to show some fire, unlike the boring, sleep-inducing tripe that his music has become now. He was heralded as the newest and bestest trumpeter by all the high priests at Down Beat. He was the new "young lion" who set about critcizing Miles (Miles!) for playing funky and experimental jazz, and declared that only Miles-pre-1965 was legitimate, etc. etc. because, you know, Wynton thinks he is the real offspring of Louis Armstrong, dontcha know. And then he crowned himself king of all jazz and became the insufferable prig he is today -- with a big assist from brother Branford and that obnoxious grouch, Stanley Crouch.

    Do you remember the album "Think of One" that he put out in 1985? It solidified his reputation as the big ego to whom all must bow down. Carla Bley, the pianist, tore it (and him) to shreds on a Ben Sidran interview show just after "Think of One" was released. She was absolutely hilarious and so right on. I still have a copy of that interview on tape.

    Parent

    Opera has the amazing ability (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:44:06 PM EST
    to make me smile sweetly to self when I read heinous words from liars.  It causes me to have hope for all people and everything in general.  Really weird stuff to mess with :)  I don't even know what the words mean

    Parent
    This is encouraging news. 9 pm (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:55:45 PM EST
    KUSC FM PST.  (Assuming WS game is done by then--although the opera will be on regardless!)

    Parent
    You are watching a game (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:59:58 PM EST
    to Opera?  I'm going to clean the kitchen to it.  Target had the most amazing set of Bose speakers for your computer a few months back, $250.  I stood there playing with them until my husband came and led me away.  He is gone though right now and he won't be back for months.

    Parent
    I have aux. speakers and a sub-woofer (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:42:04 PM EST
    by Aztec-Lansing.  Quite good, if I am seated pretty close to the computer.  I can, of course, watch the end of the game whilst listening to the opera.  And will.

    Parent
    Say it isn't so! (none / 0) (#74)
    by DFLer on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 09:41:09 AM EST
    Altec-Lansing has moved its headquarters to Mexico? :)

    Parent
    I have trouble with Al Qaeda too! (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 11:12:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Opera beats Jazz (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:39:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Wrong kind of Jazz (none / 0) (#10)
    by SOS on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:58:22 PM EST
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=181-cW9FNTU

    Parent
    "Opera beats Jazz" (none / 0) (#42)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:56:49 PM EST
    I take extreme objection to that. Somebody is, obviously, not playing the good stuff for you. And by the way, some jazz appreciation requires a bit of knowledge, just like opera appreciation does...

    Parent
    The problem with any genre (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Fabian on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 05:46:28 AM EST
    is that there are always the pretentious and self absorbed sects.  I do like some some jazz, but that's the more accessible kind - the kind that doesn't make you feel like you need an atlas, a dictionary and an encyclopedia to understand it.  Ditto for opera.

    Even pop music can be pretentious and narcissistic.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Oh well, I think pop music is dead (none / 0) (#76)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    The funeral should have been held long ago.

    When it comes to jazz, I don't really know what is meant by "accessible". Maybe it means non-challenging rhythms, everything in 4/4, non-challenging harmonic concepts, and easy-listening melodies. Like muzak! Good thing Coltrane isn't alive today. He'd probably be lambasted as a music terrorist.

    Parent

    Pop music is not dead. (none / 0) (#77)
    by Fabian on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 01:30:23 PM EST
    And will never be.  I don't see anything wrong with it.  It fills a need.  

    The only thing that bugs me is when the actual music becomes second to the artist as a Phenomena.

    Tell me a story.  It can be the most over used narrative in the world, just do it well.

    Parent

    I was going to post but it was something snarky (none / 0) (#15)
    by Angel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:19:32 PM EST
    about Polanski....being in prison...  But I believe the death penalty issue is too important a topic to sully, even with something funny.  So I didn't post.  

    Parent
    Let's do lunch and develop a (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:43:33 PM EST
    concept re an opera about Polanski.  

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#29)
    by Angel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:48:53 PM EST


    Parent
    Amazing (none / 0) (#6)
    by SOS on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 05:42:14 PM EST
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfGd53pmiZs

    Well I won't be showing this to Zoey (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:03:37 PM EST
    She starts at the RockBand drums but then tends to move around the house with the sticks, pets have been made petrified by her presence at times lately.  Uncle Josh plays the RockBand drums, and Zoey plays the whole house.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by SOS on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:20:36 PM EST
    Indeed the real deal

    Parent
    You never know they might get inspired (none / 0) (#18)
    by SOS on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:25:07 PM EST
     . . to get real drum sets. You'll love that.

    LOL

    Parent

    Joshua wants one (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:26:52 PM EST
    He's getting one for Christmas.  Zoey though????  She's working on developing a conscience right now.

    Parent
    Being a more advanced (none / 0) (#23)
    by JamesTX on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:40:50 PM EST
    society, the counterpart to the U.S. "Drug Czar" in the U.K. government is actually an impartial scientist. That is, impartial at least in theory. This seems to be a relatively rational choice for such a role, in comparison to our tradition of retired law enforcement officers or similar individuals who arrive with an attitude about drugs that may not fit reality like a wet t-shirt.

    But, the seriousness of the consequences of not deferring to U.S. drug policy is something that keeps other countries in the free world repeating our lies and towing our party line. Apparently, the U.K. has canned their drug czar for calling a bvllsh|t on U.S. lies about the dangers of marijuana.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/11/1/799446/-UKs-Drugs-Czar-Fired-For-Marijuana-Truths

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6897905.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164

    Just like we canned... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:25:40 AM EST
    the greatest Surgeon General of my lifetime for speaking some truth...Joycelyn Elders...though she had the nerve to speak & promote truth on drugs and sex...double whammy.

    Parent
    I saw her speak (none / 0) (#79)
    by JamesTX on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 04:48:49 PM EST
    one time...brilliant lady. Yeah, she called them out on their nonsense and they slapped her down. Jealous of their prerogatives. What a world, what a world.

    Parent
    Boom (none / 0) (#33)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:06:19 PM EST
    The Fox promo for game 4 of the World Series used video game war imagery to depict opposing teams as opposing armies. Planes shooting at each other. Aliens. The works.

    I missed it as I was walking the Dot (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by nycstray on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:13:40 PM EST
    but they've been promo-ing a new movie all day. War and Aliens, can't remember the name, but general gist is we go to another planet and try and take it over for a valuable resource. Kinda sounds like the invasion of America and all the other countries since  ;) Doesn't look like a terribly original or interesting story, more about the visual effects . . . .

    Parent
    How (none / 0) (#37)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:18:56 PM EST
    do you walk a dot?

    Parent
    Not a Dot (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by nycstray on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:31:52 PM EST
    the Dot. A leash works well ;)

    Parent
    I see. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:39:19 PM EST
    That is one cute Dot.

    Parent
    BCS computers were not fooled ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by cymro on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:57:08 PM EST
    ... by USC's over-hyped reputation. Oregon trouncing USC did not help either Oregon or Boise State as much as some people expected. What a shame, now we'll have to root for USC to dominate their remaining opponents, which is like rooting for the Yankees.

    Week 10 BCS Poll

    Boise has a problem (none / 0) (#50)
    by CoralGables on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 08:41:55 PM EST
    It's the opponents on their schedule. Toss out Oregon, and the teams they have played thus far have a combined record of 20-36 and they are 1-9 against major conference opponents. The only win against a major was against Washington State, arguably the worst major conference football team in the country.

    Parent
    Ah (none / 0) (#57)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 10:20:08 PM EST
    Washington State has some braggin rights! If you're gonna be bad, be the WORST.

    (I say this being a 1985 WSU grad).

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 11:12:07 PM EST
    Go Cougars.

    And they do have a chance to win their version of a  bowl game this year on November 28 in the Apple Cup.

    Parent

    I just looked at WSU (none / 0) (#59)
    by CoralGables on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 11:32:00 PM EST
    more closely. How is it possible they lost to Hawaii? And they didn't even get a free vacation trip to the Island to lose the game. Hawaii's only other win was against Central Arkansas.

    I've changed my mind. The only way WSU wins the Apple Cup this year is if they dress out Tim Tebow and the Huskies catch the swine flu.

    Parent

    Tell me. Did Tebow do a post-game (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 11:53:49 PM EST
    interview this week?

    Parent
    Why isn't Iowa no.1? 9-0. (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 11:51:20 PM EST


    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#66)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 07:47:14 AM EST
    It's probably part of an anti Big 10 bias brought about by poor performances by Big 10 teams in recent years in the Bowl Series.

    In Jan 2007 two Big 10 teams advanced to the Bowl Series, Ohio State and Michigan, with both losing by a combined 41 points.

    In Jan 2008 two Big Ten teams again advanced to the Bowl Series, Ohio State and Illinois, losing by a combined 46 points.

    Iowa'a problem isn't so much Iowa as much as it is recent Big 10 history which is not on their side.

    If it was just the computers choosing, Iowa would currently be #2 behind Florida. It's the human perception in the USA Today Coaches Poll and the Harris Poll that keeps them down right now.

    Iowa, TCU, Cincinnati, and Boise fans should all be LSU fans this Saturday.

    Parent

    Guess I should (none / 0) (#68)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:03:08 AM EST
    have added the Jan 2009 games. Two Big 10 teams advanced and both lost again, but kept it respectable losing by a combined 17 points.

    So over the last three years the Big 10 is 0-6. For the human voters their thinking must be... please, no Big 10 team in the Championship game.

    Parent

    hen there was that bowl game a couple (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 11:17:05 PM EST
    years ago where Michigan beat Florida. Capital One?

    Parent
    Iowa... (none / 0) (#75)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 11:55:00 AM EST
    ...will always be #1 in my heart.

    Parent
    I guess you didn't watch the game (none / 0) (#78)
    by cymro on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 04:19:50 PM EST
    I did, and if I had a vote Iowa would not be getting it. For three quarters the only performance more inept than Iowa's was that of the refs, who helped to keep Iowa from getting blown out with their biased play calling.

    Yes, Iowa managed to pull it out in the 4th quarter, which is all the computer polls care about, but I can understand why human voters don't rate them so highly.

    Just in case you think I'm biased, I could care less about any teams or schools in any BSC conference other than the PAC-10.

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    Oh noes! (none / 0) (#81)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 08:45:31 PM EST
    You're on to our super-double secret plan to rule the BCS.  Yep, we've already got all of the Big Ten officials in our pocket...

    hmmm...  From your link.

    Replay Official Made the Right Call, This Was Not a TD
    63.3%

    Double oh noes--we're controlling the interwebs too!!!

     

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    Who are you going to believe ... (none / 0) (#84)
    by cymro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 04:00:32 AM EST
    ... an unscientific popularity poll that has clearly attracted a lot of Iowa fans, or your own eyes and the conclusions of numerous other unbiased observers?

    Fear & Loathing in Iowa City
    Lousy Refereeing in Iowa-Indiana Game
    Iowa-Indiana, Officials should be suspended
    Booth reviewers strike again
    What's the point of replay??
    Twitter comments re Indiana replay

    Obviously the mistake was getting the game televised on national TV, because that allowed too many independent viewers like me to witness the officiating. I really don't care about either of the teams, I don't follow them, and 99 times out of 100 I could not tell you what their records were, or who plays for them. But what's the point of playing a football game, and showing it on national TV, if the officials are biased?

    And no amount of sarcastic humor on your part can alter the facts. If you were really interested in treating comments on the Web as a true measure of the opinions of independent observers, you could find plenty more evidence of a consensus that this game was not officiated fairly. I'm not the only one who saw it.

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    What I believe... (none / 0) (#85)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 08:47:43 AM EST
    ...is that officials are human and make mistakes and that there are going to be differences of opinion.

    But, this whole "the refs are fixing the game to get Iowa into the BCS championship" stuff is on par with the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Unfounded, unproved, stupid and silly.

    Your being an Oregon fan, I don't believe for one minute that you are unbiased.   And this "we" certainly won't be rooting for USC the rest of the way.  

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    There are differences of opinion, and ... (none / 0) (#86)
    by cymro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 01:55:20 PM EST
    ... observable facts. When the broad consensus is that the observable facts suggest a particular conclusion, to refuse to examine those facts and consider the validity of that conclusion is to allow prejudice to override rational judgment. Hence the familiar proverb, "There are none so blind as those who will not see." As a regular contributor here, I know you are familiar with plenty of situations in which we oppose such prejudiced ways of thinking.

    I am not an Oregon supporter, I just don't like the way the BCS is designed and operated to favor a few conferences financially. So I was rooting for Boise State to upset the pre-ordained BCS order. Since BS defeated Oregon, and Oregon defeated USC, and the computer algorithms factor in opponents' performance and the strength of the opponents' schedules, wins by Oregon and USC would help Boise's ranking. As I said, normally rooting for USC is like rooting for the Yankees. But this year it appears that USC, with its two losses, can't get to the BCS title game. So rooting for them is equivalent to an A's fan rooting for the Yankees to beat the Angels to help the A's win the AL West, after the Yankees have been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

    So ... Go USC! Go Oregon!! and Go Phillies!!!

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    Observable facts... (none / 0) (#87)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 03:29:36 PM EST
    ...like the fact that there was no foot dragging in the End Zone by the Indiana receiver.  Funny thing about the new turf they just installed at Kinnick Stadium--it's made up of pellets.  Makes it easy to see when someone is dragging their feet--and when they're not.  The observable fact shown on the replay was that the receiver caught the ball out of bounds.    

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    Sunday Evening Open Thread | 87 comments (87 topical)

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