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Thursday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:50:00 AM EST
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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 146 comments (146 topical)

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    Sentencing today (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by me only on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:54:49 AM EST
    in a death penalty case here in Knoxville.  Let's just say Davidson isn't going to be on any innocence project list.

    Link? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:08:49 AM EST
    I'm glad the Innocence Project helps those who deserve it.  Then there are the others...

    Parent
    I have never been able to make a link (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by me only on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:50:16 AM EST
    work, but I'll try:

    Link

    Track back through the side panel to "Full coverage of the Christian, Newsome Case" if you want all the horrible details.  (Warning the details are truly hard to take.)

    Parent

    That was vile. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:43:25 AM EST
    And "bipolar disorder"?  Mental illness is often a factor in many crimes, but I don't think you can realistically say it is much of a factor in this one.  

    Parent
    Agreed, (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by me only on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:01:54 AM EST
    Fair to say when I give a warning I mean it.  I have a strong stomach, but this case has bothered me some.

    Parent
    I looked for something (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:16:19 AM EST
    that would cause me to give anyone benefit of the doubt in that case, but just couldn't.  

    Parent
    I had not known about the case (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:27:01 AM EST
    and now have found more, and the torture and murders were horrible almost beyond belief.

    But also very interesting to read about the lack of coverage by national media and the discussion as to possible reasons for their resistance.

    Parent

    I saw that (none / 0) (#111)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:49:50 PM EST
    and wasn't sure I wanted to go there.  

    Parent
    Every day... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:59:46 AM EST
    Britain gets wackier and wackier...now parents can't play with their kids on the playground because they haven't been properly screened, checked, and certified by the state...outside the fence please, cheerio.

    When our nanny police state gets me down, I just look east and suddenly feel a little better.

    A public playground? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:06:48 AM EST
    In order to hang out with my kids at school, I just have to sign in.  

    They have gone over the edge on that one!

    Parent

    Only sign in Fabian? (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:32:25 AM EST
    No background check, no credit check, no urine sample, no dna swab, no temp. check for swine flu?

    Isn't anyone thinking of the children in your school district?...:)

    Parent

    I have to wear my Visitor's Pass (none / 0) (#58)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:31:47 AM EST
    with no name or expiration date or official stamp.

    They are terribly slack.

    Parent

    It's a wonder... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:23:21 AM EST
    any of the little ones make it to adulthood with all these pesky freedoms still to be eradicated:)

    Parent
    Stupid me... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:02:36 AM EST
    ...forgot to call the weather hotline this morning because I was too worried about getting up and around and out the door to catch my bus.  Turns out I could have slept in as the office isn't "officially" opening until 10a due to the snow.  

    Oh well, extra brownie points as I have a review today--if the boss makes it in.  

    And a big old f*ck you to the tools who decided it would be fun to spray people waiting at the bus stop this morning.

    GIve them a big (none / 0) (#9)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:11:49 AM EST
    flip of the finger for me too.

    Can't stand idiots in cars who think that people on foot and on bicycles are obstacles or targets.  I got downright rude when I was a pedestrian and some driver pulled sh!t on me.

    Parent

    I can't figure out why people (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by me only on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:52:13 AM EST
    think I am strange for carrying a gun while biking.

    Parent
    Tough break buddy... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:17:36 AM EST
    karma will surely strike down the pr*ck driver who doused you by days end.

    Good luck on the review!

    Parent

    Maybe karma... (none / 0) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:49:09 AM EST
    ...will put them in a ditch.  But then, I'd probably be the one helping get them out.  

    I don't think the review will be anything to worry about.  We got hit with four more furlough days for this fiscal year, so morale is already pretty low around here.  Doubt (hope?) the higher ups will want to do anything to make it any worse.

    Parent

    Any outfit... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:49:39 AM EST
    would be lucky to have you...I'm sure it will go well too.

    And worst case, there is always room on my pirate ship for a salty mofo such as yourself:)

    Parent

    It looks like Afghanistan is going (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:10:01 AM EST
    to get McChrystal Light.  I think it's a BAD idea based on everything we didn't learn in Iraq.  We don't lose many troops in Iraq though anymore because all of our positions are very hardened in, it's hard to get at us these days but we're there.  Soooo, we will lose a lot of troops in Afghanistan this next year and that will cause us to harden our positions in until we get hardened in well.  And then we will never leave and we will always have a decent position to attack from when things get real nuts.  I don't know why I'm b*otching about job security.  The whole deal reeks of Kissinger if you ask me, but everything reeks of Kissinger to me when I know he's around.

    Fareed Zakaria has (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03:10 AM EST
    interesting piece this week in Newsweek on Afghanistan, pointing out that we've increased troops -- four-fold--I think -- since early 08, and none of it has helped.  The troops are doing their work, and valiantly, but....

    Parent
    Afghanistan was so under resourced (none / 0) (#146)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:55:19 PM EST
    in 08 that a four fold increase doesn't mean squat.  If you want to know what is needed, listen to McChrystal.  We do have a learning curve here, or at least the military itself does....and the Administration chooses to ignore it.  Fine, there are prices to be paid for doing so.  Hope he liked his Dover trip today.  If he thinks he needs to show up when he has experienced heavy troop losses he'd better get real used to making that trip.

    Parent
    I'm rather uneasy (none / 0) (#154)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 06:46:49 PM EST
    I believe what you say about four-fold increase being insufficient, but I have grave doubts about the ability to "win" over a nation such as Afghanistan with any number of troops and whether doing so, in the long run, would be worth it.  In addition, we don't seem to have unending numbers of troops, given the volunteer nature of service.  I fear for the exhaustion of the troops we do have and the little we do for them when they return.  Oprah had on one of her shows last week a very young Vet living in Indiana with his wife and young child. After 4 years of service, he cannot find employment. The old saying, "charity begins at home" comes to mind.  

    Parent
    honestly (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:12:35 AM EST
    it seems like another instance of Obama, like healthcare, unwilling or unable to make a stand or have an opinion.

    Parent
    Rumors on the street now (none / 0) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:18:45 PM EST
    This administration is crazy naive bordering on flat out stupid when it comes to understanding WAR.  Great, this is coming from people attempting to work with this administration and State to create the weak surge.  Apparently Obama has placed people in extremely key positions that are supposed to work with the Pentagon and they know and understand Zero and even Zip about how to conduct a war.  Some of the ideas they are tossing onto the table and think are even doable indicate that the military are now moving from dealing with sociopaths in power to utter idiots in power.

    Parent
    I'm so sorry (none / 0) (#34)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:54:25 AM EST
    I know this is a topic near and dear to your heart militarytracy. I had my suspicions that we weren't going to be able to committ the way we need to. I hate it when it turns out I'm right.

    Parent
    It is and then again it isn't (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:20:42 AM EST
    I can't change a President's choices.  I can only camp as close to his lawn as I can legally get.  I don't really care to take part in Imperial ambitions either or use the blood of troops to pour the cement blockades of Imperial ambitions.  We can take ourselves off the list of active duty, and my husband has told me that I don't have to do any of these things anymore if I don't want to.  Time will tell.

    Parent
    I suppose I should be happier (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:16:09 AM EST
    about job security too as Naomi arrived last night.  Josh and Zoey are sleeping in for a bit.  It is hard to manage children and have babies when you have no men around. Who knew?  Naomi is simply just a huge kid too.  The due date was not wrong and she was indeed a week early and still came in at 7 lbs 15 ozs and 20 inches long.  She has bicolored eyebrows though...blonde and brunette, I think we have a blonde here.

    Congrats! (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:17:41 AM EST


    Parent
    bi-colored eyebrows! (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:19:49 AM EST
    sounds very steam punk

    congratulations

    Parent

    Ahhhhhhhhhh.... (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:29:34 AM EST
    Congratulations to all of you!! By tomorrow you'll be enjoying that musical sound of a newborn looking for food and hugs.

    Parent
    Yeah... (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:34:39 AM EST
    us fellas are not the useless oafs the sitcoms make us out to be...we come in handy and are good to have around...sometimes:)

    Congrats on the new edition...another face to paint!

    Parent

    Happy Day!!!!! (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:37:35 AM EST
    Big time Congratulations!

    Parent
    Congratulations to everyone! (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:38:28 AM EST
    Sounds like the Tracy house will be jumping, but so nice to have a happy event be the reason for all the activity.  

    Hope Mom and Naomi are doing well, that Zooey accommodates her new sibling with maximum love and minimal who-the-heck-is-this-and-when-is-she-leaving resentment, that Josh enjoys being an uncle again, that pics and video are already on their way to Mr. Tracy to enjoy - and that Grandma Tracy feels the blessings and joy of this new little person in every nook and cranny of her already-big heart.

    Parent

    congrats :) (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:44:07 AM EST


    Parent
    Ditto! (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:04:23 AM EST


    Parent
    Congratulations (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:57:11 AM EST
    grandma! Take lots of pictures. They grow so fast.

    Parent
    What's the new cutie's name? n/t (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:45:47 AM EST


    Parent
    Mazel tov, MT (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 01:54:52 PM EST
    A new baby is such a blessing. Sending all good thoughts to you and the family on this auspicious occasion. It sounds like both mother and baby are doing well.

    Please post pics as soon as you have the time.

    Parent

    Yes we must have pictures.. (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:23:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Beautiful name for a beautiful baby. (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:06:27 PM EST
    Enjoy every minute!

    Parent
    Congrats!!! n/t (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:55:46 PM EST


    Parent
    This is horrible... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:57:43 AM EST
    Hiker killed by coyotes.

    I have never heard of coyotes killing anyone before.

    I haven't either (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:10:15 AM EST
    and I've seen some skinny coyotes.  But anything is possible once.

    Parent
    I had a case in which a couple raised (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:08:03 AM EST
    a newborn coyote, which, even when it was 12 years old, slept in their bed!  

    Parent
    I first read that as (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:13:45 AM EST
    Hitler killed by coyotes

    Parent
    Wow! (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:27:13 AM EST
    That is extremely, extremely strange.  I have to think at least one of them might have been rabid.  This is just totally not normal coyote behavior.

    BTW, eastern coyotes are bigger and tougher than western coyotes, and they've been found to be part wolf.  So you Westerners thinking of the scruffy, skinny small animals you're familiar with, that's not what these are.  Eastern coyotes are 50 percent bigger or more.

    Parent

    It might have been true (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by brodie on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:51:24 AM EST
    previously that coyotes rarely if ever attacked humans, but this Californian has been seeing more and more news accounts in recent years of coyotes, alone or in a small pack, attacking humans, mostly in SoCal areas.  But usually they tend to go for small children who are temporarily unattended, and not adults or teens.

    Not long ago I went out for my usual morning constitutionel before sunrise, and saw a coyote casually loping along in the middle of the street just 30 yrds ahead of me.  It had to have noticed my presence walking behind him since nothing else was happening at that hour in the semi-darkness, but it didn't seem in the least bit concerned about me.  

    Not exactly the sort of thing I want to see first thing in the morning.  But not the first time I've seen a coyote in the street as I've gone out early in the morning in my small town in the hills.

    Parent

    Lots of coyotes in Alaska also. (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:12:19 AM EST


    Parent
    as a correction note (none / 0) (#128)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:54:06 PM EST
    Shouldn't "must have been frightening as H-E- double-toothpicks" be h-e- double-toothpicks or H-E double hockey sticks?

    Parent
    Typical East Coaster... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:53:47 AM EST
    Oh, our'er coyotes are better than yours!  My city coyotes are plenty well-fed and tough, thank you very much.  Why, they'll snatch a poodle right from thier owners.

    Fix your bias!  :)

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:19:19 PM EST
    'Cept ours aren't even coyotes, they're coy-wolves.

    The problem with either kind in the suburbs (and we have that in the East increasingly, too) is the coyotes get to thinking of people's back yards as a food source.  No big dif in the coyote's mind between a good garbage pail or bowl of dog food left out and the dog itself, or the kid.  It's all food that's available at that "food place."

    In rural areas loaded with rodents and other prey, there's not the need to take the risk of prowling around houses.  I do occasionally have packs that come racing to or from a hunt across my yard at night yipping and barking up a storm, and i frequently find tracks making a straight line past the house in the snow in winter, but they don't hang around, and certainly not during the daytime.

    Oddly, although I saw them fairly frequently when I lived in the suburbs, I haven't laid eyes on one here in the three years since I've been here.  I hear them almost every day around dusk, though.

    Parent

    That's a misunderstanding. (none / 0) (#126)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:50:09 PM EST
    They are all "coyotes".  Western coyotes are adapted to their environment and probably feed on mostly small critters, rodents mostly.  That keeps them small.

    The theory is that the Eastern coyotes are beginning to feed on larger prey, like white tail deer.  They need to be larger and hunt in a coordinated manner to take large prey - kind of like wolves.  So...these large prey specialists start acting more and more like wolves.  As far as anyone can tell, wolves and coyotes do not interbreed with domestic dogs.  It would probably not be beneficial if they did.  If a coyote can take down a domestic dog twice its size, there's obviously nothing wrong with their current gene pool.

    (My son's Arctic Animal assignment was "the arctic lynx".  There are two such creatures.  The one in Europe hunts small deer.  The one in America hunts snowshoe hare.  Different prey, different adaptations, different animals.)

    Parent

    Domestic dogs and... (none / 0) (#131)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 03:27:53 PM EST
    wolves seem to hybridize readily.

    This fact had to be faced when re-introducing the nearly extinct Mexican gray wolf (the Lobo)to its former range in Arizona/New Mexico. The number of Mexican wolves that had not been interbred with dogs was very low. They existed only in a small captive population.

    Coyotes? I have no idea.

    Parent

    Do you mean in general or that it (none / 0) (#132)
    by vml68 on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 03:37:08 PM EST
    never happens?

    As far as anyone can tell, wolves and coyotes do not interbreed with domestic dogs.

    In Columbus, there was a guy who had a wolf/dog cross (I thought it was all wolf but he told me it was a cross) and I used to give them a wide berth everytime, they walked by.

    Parent

    Humans breed dogs and wolves (none / 0) (#135)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 04:47:29 PM EST
    which from what I can tell, is a really bad idea.

    From one source, the point at which a wolf-dog hybrid can reliably be expected to act like a dog is 1/32 wolf, 31/32 dog.  Otherwise, you run the risk of it treating anything like prey - dogs, cats, children.  At that point you might as well just go with a 100% domestic dog.

    I did see what was said to be a 100% wolf in Columbus.  He and my dog got along quite well.  My dog along with almost every dog well, so I'm not sure that means anything.

    Parent

    I found an article by a naturalist which (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:38:53 PM EST
    started out:  a coyote is more likely to eat a dog than breed with it.  

    Parent
    That is my experience as well. (none / 0) (#152)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 12:00:54 PM EST
    My wife and I, and our Great Dane, run on the trails near our home just about every day.

    This morning I ran with the dog and, as often happens, we encountered a coyote and, as usual, my dog (who reacts to dogs with complete joyful abandon) wanted to attack the coyote with every fiber of her being.

    I think generally coyotes and dogs know that they're not only competitors, but that their lives may depend on winning the competition.

    I yell and throw rocks at coyotes when I see them. I hope, in some small way, to keep them from considering us merely unusually large rib-eyes...

    Parent

    I found the article because I had a case (none / 0) (#153)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 12:03:28 PM EST
    in which plaintiff claimed her pet was a coydog--coyote and dog mixture.  It wasn't.  We did DNA.  Expensive case!

    Parent
    Beg pardon (none / 0) (#140)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 06:07:09 PM EST
    but the idea that Eastern coyotes are part wolf has been 100 percent confirmed by DNA studies in recent years.  There's no question about it any longer.

    Parent
    I think we need to define (none / 0) (#142)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 07:16:38 PM EST
    what exactly is a wolf and what exactly is a coyote.

    It may turn out that our original assumptions were inaccurate.  Species interbreeding isn't common - especially competitors for the same territory.  Then again, it's possible human pressures (bounty hunting of wolves) caused some very unlikely things to happen.

    I like the info about coydogs not being very successful.  Confirms my suspicion that we've been breeding our domestic stock into the ground.

    Parent

    Interesting question (none / 0) (#149)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:52:42 PM EST
    The rule of thumb in science has for a long time been that if critters can interbreed, then they're not actually separate species.  That's been busted all to heck in ornithology anyway, and probably also in zoology.  What's replaced that rule, if anything, I'm not sure.

    But my understanding, could be wrong since I'm far from expert, is that wolf and coyote DNA is sufficiently different to make the distinction.

    The thing about coy-wolves, though, is pretty fascinating.  Don't know if you know that up until 20 or 30 years ago, there were no coyotes in the eastern half of the continent.  They are not indigenous critters here, though wolves are (or were).

    Anyway, the tentative theory about Eastern Coy-wolves is that coyotes have been moving east for some time, and on their way encountered a few of the vanishing wolves, which were withdrawing to the north, the ones that escaped human slaughter.  The thought is that it was at that point that the rare advance female coyote encountered the rare lagging male wolf at the margins, and lacking othe r options, they mated.  So it was sort of the opposite of competition for territory at those margins, so the thought goes, because if they got together and raised babies, they at least had a chance of succeeding in an area otherwise void of canids.  And it went from there.

    There's also some very telling behavioral differences between indigenous W. coyotes and wolves of all subspecies, none of which of course I can remember at the moment, and the E. coyotes have many of the distinctly wolvish patterns rather than the W. coyote ones.  Best I can racall is that many of these have to do with social interactions, not, say, hunting behavior, which would be more quickly malleable in response to environmental conditions.

    I find them fascinating, I must say, partly because of this odd history and partly because I lost a very much beloved cat companion to them not long after I moved here.  In some ways, the fascination is sort of morbid therefore, but also redirection of my passionate grief and anger into understanding.

    Parent

    I think we need to define (none / 0) (#143)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 07:16:47 PM EST
    what exactly is a wolf and what exactly is a coyote.

    It may turn out that our original assumptions were inaccurate.  Species interbreeding isn't common - especially competitors for the same territory.  Then again, it's possible human pressures (bounty hunting of wolves) caused some very unlikely things to happen.

    I like the info about coydogs not being very successful.  Confirms my suspicion that we've been breeding our domestic stock into the ground.

    Parent

    Actually... (none / 0) (#130)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:58:51 PM EST
    ...most of our urban coyote problems/encounters aren't in the neighborhoods or backyards, but rather the parks, golf courses and open spaces.  They tend to stay away from humans for the most part.  

    The foxes (and the occasional bear and mountain lion), however, have claimed the residential areas as their own.  

    Parent

    But what about... (none / 0) (#136)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 04:47:59 PM EST
    ...manbearpig?!?

    Parent
    I think Bush... (none / 0) (#137)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 04:54:34 PM EST
    warned us against those manimal thingees.

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#144)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:14:26 PM EST
    he was only referring to us possibly dating or breeding with fish.

    Parent
    Typical Yankees fan. (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:13:00 AM EST


    Parent
    Aggression isn't the point (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:11:33 PM EST
    here, it's the size of the critter they look on as potential prey, and the damage they can do.  An adult person being killed by a couple of coyotes seems extremely weird to someone who's only familiar with Western coyotes.  When you see the big Eastern coy-wolves, you know they're perfectly capable of it physically.

    Also, the problem with "culling" coyotes is that they're one animal that responds to low numbers by having double-size litters, so they make up the numbers and more within a season or two. A lot of naturalists who study them are convinced that culling, or here in rural Vermont just periodic shooting parties, actually make the coyote problem worse.

    Parent

    Llamas (none / 0) (#139)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 06:03:15 PM EST
    are terrific, and a fair number of the folks who raise sheep around here have one in with their flocks.  Or donkeys or even a couple of big geese.  The latter two have the additional advantage of being very, very, very loud when they're upset!

    But that isn't doable in the suburbs.  If people would only learn to keep their garbage and compost piles secure, not leave food out for Rover, and make a terrific racket any time they see a coyote, they wouldn't be so interested in back yards.  But it seems to be impossible to get people to follow that advice.

    And fwiw, it's not that two 25-pound animals couldn't take an adult person down, as you say, but that they're not normally in the habit of looking at something that big as prey.  Why bother when there's so many delicious small mammals around? (They eat fruit, too, btw, I've learned.  They particularly like apples!)  It's possible that hiker inadvertently got close to a den of puppies or something that made the animals think she was a threat.  Who knows.

    I've been growled at quite impressively twice by something hiding in the weeds right where I was walking.  Whether bobcat or coyote I don't know, but I sure didn't need to hear it twice to beat a calm but rapid retreat.

    Parent

    I'm an avid hiker... (none / 0) (#66)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:50:02 AM EST
    (or at least I was until I got sick this year)and the few times that I've seen coyotes on my hikes, they have always just quietly slunk (slinked?)away. This is just horribly strange. Maybe, like you said, an illness.

    Parent
    In terms of hikers in the (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by brodie on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:56:48 AM EST
    rugged areas, as opposed to folks just going about their business in suburban areas, almost all the wildlife attacks I've heard about in recent years in CA have involved mountain lions -- some fatal.  Again, a case of what used to be rare now seeming to occur with greater frequency.

    I think I could handle a coyote one-on-one.  A mountain lion however, especially since they usually attack stealthily from behind and go for the neck/head region, well that's another matter ...

    Parent

    Think of coyotes (none / 0) (#81)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:12:09 AM EST
    as raccoons in terms of pound for pound fighting ability.

    Not many domestic dogs can deal with that.  My dog could - but then again, from what I could tell, he was most definitely not your average domestic dog.  LGDs were bred to stand off coyotes, wolves and bears and have been known to take them on and survive.  

    Parent

    The lesson here... (none / 0) (#150)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 08:49:31 AM EST
    ...is that it is always wise to take someone with you when you're out in the wild.  Mother Nature is not someone to be trifled with!

    Parent
    Or your dog (none / 0) (#151)
    by Fabian on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 11:17:24 AM EST
    provided that you have a dog you think is capable of defending you.

    Parent
    It's not how much you do (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by SOS on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:05:58 AM EST
    it is the quality of each thing you do.

    And I love this blog cuz I can say (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:35:03 AM EST
    what I want to say and nobody totally freaks.  But I just went to read at Orange and there are two diaries up on Obama welcoming our fallen troops home.  Mind you, I think this is a fine thing and I think it takes courage to go on the record that you are responsible for certain outcomes.  But this was a photo op if there ever was one.  He practiced, and it makes me feel good that he cared enough to practice.....but calm down Orange because if he isn't doing this everytime the plane lands at Dover it's called a photo op.

    I actually give him a little credit (none / 0) (#79)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:09:24 AM EST
    for actually having the fortitude to confront the consequences of the decisions he has made. Even if I do think that part of this is about ramping up support for his policy in Afghanistan. It's an improvement over his predecessor, who put so little thought into the lives he was asking to be sacrificed in Iraq that he didn't even bother coming up with a post war plan.

    Parent
    He can't be seen as carelessly (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:03:34 PM EST
    allowing large numbers of our troops to be killed while refusing to listen to his generals.  It was a good time politically to "get caught" doing this so well :)  Now I'm off to the hospital for the rest of the day.

    Parent
    My understanding (none / 0) (#141)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 06:10:47 PM EST
    is that Bush never did this once.  So no, no high praise since it's what a president ought to do, but Bush ducked it and got away with it and Obama certainly could have, too.

    Parent
    from (4.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:02:40 AM EST
    stinque

    since we were discussing Sara and SaraPac yesterday,
    which btw I think sounds like something you would apply to a hemorrhoid:

    Nancy Pelosi is expected to release the House version of the (death panel) health care bill this morning, and the good folks at Team Sarah are ready to crowd source pages 1 through 1880 for signs of socialism. "Please ONLY report items that are truly egregious or Red Flags," the leaders remind the troops, and for assistance, they've provided the following taxonomy of egregiousness:

        * rationing
        * privacy
        * ethics
        * quality of care
        * educational
        * abortion
        * military/guns
        * immigration
        * financial
        * other

    We, of course, will follow our usual plan of action for momentous morning events: Sleep through it. But if you hear a strange noise coming from your computer, it's probably Team Sarah "utilizing the ENTIRE INTERNET BLOGOSPHERE for maximum exposure to the American public." Especially if they find the secret provision that keeps guns out of emergency rooms during immigrant abortions.
    I think every time you insult her (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:46:32 AM EST
    I'm gonna donate $5 to her.

    I'm so sick of both parties and their posturing that I could scream.

    Parent

    she could use it (none / 0) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:52:58 AM EST
    she only got 1.25 mill for her ghost written pop-up book

    and to quote my buddy nojo Won't you give generously? Mommy needs a Northland to keep the mooseburgers fresh.

    Parent

    Who wrote the check (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:56:27 AM EST
    the publisher, or the Scaife Foundation?

    Parent
    There's no credibility in (none / 0) (#39)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:04:23 AM EST
    comments that are so immature and petty.

    Find something of substance to introduce the voters to on Palin's policies. Real ones. The ones she actually put into force while Governor.

    Parent

    I hope people are taking note (2.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:20:35 AM EST
    that if people defending this wing nut zombie show up in threads on a site called talk "left" we need to take the threat seriously.


    Parent
    I think you're just hacked off because (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:51:53 AM EST
    the red meat you thought you were throwing in here for the Palin haters landed like Aunt Gertrude's 10-yr old fruitcake.  Thud.

    I don't personally give two hoots about Sarah Palin's personal life, or what she calls her child, or why.  Levi's trying to make his money by pushing the buttons of the Palin-haters, you seem to go looking for as much anti-Palin dirt as you can find, and I can't for the life of me understand what it is supposed to accomplish - that we all hate Palin because of what some opportunistic kid says she says about her baby?  

    As for the Team Sarah nonsense, are you serious?  You think it's only okay to engage in that kind of activism from a liberal/left perspective?  Hell, did you miss the DK daily attacks against our own?

    Jeebus, I can't decide now which is more annoying: Levi's bids for attention or yours.


    Parent

    actually (1.66 / 3) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:09:07 AM EST
    it was to annoy the Palin lovers.
    and it seemed to work pretty darn well

    Parent
    You sound childish (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:13:50 AM EST
    Frankly, I doubt half the people you refer to as "palin lovers" were nearly as annoyed as you wish them to be.

    Parent
    un huh (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:17:09 AM EST


    Parent
    Except for one small detail: (5.00 / 7) (#87)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:19:00 AM EST
    I don't believe any of those who responded could be classified as Palin-lovers, not by a long shot.

    I think they are people who recognize cheap shots regardless of who they are aimed at.

    Parent

    un huh (1.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:32:13 AM EST


    Parent
    They love to throw that H (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:23:52 AM EST
    word around: Hillary-hate, Palin-hate..

    I've got another one: hysteria. In the classic Freudian sense.

    Parent

    if I thought (none / 0) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:31:47 AM EST
    about Palin I would probably hate her

    Parent
    With all due respect (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:43:20 AM EST
    that sounds like a personal problem. There is a huge difference with disagreeing with a person's policy positions and personally hating someone.

    I don't know Sarah Palin well enough to love or hate her. Instead I choose to restrict my commentary to what I do know of her.....her policy positions.

    Parent

    "If" you thought about her? (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:47:21 AM EST
    By the number of items you drop in here on a regular basis, I think you spend quite a bit of time thinking about her; you even went so far as to comment on that stinque.com post.

    Thanks for the chuckle.

    Parent

    Really (none / 0) (#101)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:03:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Careful..... (none / 0) (#104)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:09:30 PM EST
    if we don't let him try to dominate the thread with Palin, he might start posting more links to pornography.

    Parent
    I really think she cant help it (none / 0) (#94)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:34:17 AM EST
    which is even more disturbing to contemplate, in some ways.

    Parent
    indeed (none / 0) (#103)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:04:10 PM EST


    Parent
    more of the Levi we love (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:33:31 AM EST
       Johnston also told [Maggie] Rodriguez [on the CBS Early Show] he's been hearing a lot about his saying in a recent first-person tell-all in Vanity Fair magazine that Palin routinely referred to her baby, Trig, who suffers from Down syndrome, as "retarded."

        "I was just in shock for the first time I heard it," Johnston recalled for Rodriguez. "And then she'd say it regularly. And I think she was joking, but it doesn't make it right."



    Parent
    Man (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:52:57 AM EST
    if that's the kind of dirt we're getting I could use less of it!  Directed to Levi, not to you of course.

    Parent
    you dont think (none / 0) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:54:11 AM EST
    potential voters should know she refers to her downs syndrome son as retarded?


    Parent
    It's a medical term (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:07:20 AM EST
    used to denote diminished cognitive and adaptive ability.

    Additionally directly from wiki mental retardation is a designation that is utilized to designate special needs or are we going to pretend that the school system is "mean" for utilizing the term too.

    Because service provision is tied to the designation developmental disability, it is used by many parents, direct support professionals, and physicians. However, in school-based settings, the more specific term mental retardation is still typically used, and is one of 13 categories of disability under which children may be identified for special education services under Public Law 108-446.


    Parent

    yeah, a medical term (3.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:11:23 AM EST
    spread the word
    end the word

    Parent
    Which part of Public Law (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:18:19 AM EST
    and one of 13 established designated terms for a disability do you not get?

    It's people that use the term perjoratively as an insult you ought to take up hollering at, not someone who actually has a child with a disability that might need use of the term to ensure her child gets the special needs he has addressed to make him as independantly functional as possible.

    Try picking on her policies instead of trying to pick apart the statements of a sad teen who has an axe to grind.

    Parent

    ah! (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:22:14 AM EST
    so if you have a special needs child its ok to call them retarded.

    got it.

    I will have to pass that on to the president of my company who fired someone for using that term in a company wide email recently.

    and he wasnt even talking about a person.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:30:09 AM EST
    If you're so submerged in the whole PC construct that you can't understand the difference between using a term in a company-wide email and in your own home to talk about an individual who actually IS mentally retarded, I dunno what to tell you.

    Mental retardation is a DSM IV Axis II diagnosis.  Look it up.

    Parent

    Still (1.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:42:08 AM EST
    Nobody's gotten around to explaining why Palin and her puma posse are so f*cking retarded. That's the real mystery waiting to be unraveled.

    Parent
    I'd pit my cognitive ability (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:52:48 AM EST
    against yours any day and twice on Fridays.

    I'm not the one who got punked into believing I was gonna get a pony and ended up with mirror policy on DOMA, torture, the conscience clause and a whole host of other policy as W.

    I'm not the one utterly shocked because the President isn't supporting universal health care or with the fact that Obama hosted a banking giveaway and is enchanted with "free market".

    Frankly diminished cognitive ability ought to be applied to the people who are shocked, not myself or the PUMA posse.

    Parent

    you know (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:46:13 AM EST
    I am about asa unPC as you will find but I have been convinced that you really really should reconsider using that word the way you just used it.

    it is not cool or clever.  its lame.

    Parent

    to tell you the truth (none / 0) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:37:10 AM EST
    that seems worse to me.

    Parent
    It is the technical term (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:59:40 AM EST
    for diminished cognitive ability. If you don't like that perhaps you ought to take it up with the medical establishment.

    Was the company wide email utilized to address the concerns of a special needs individual? If so the person might have a lawsuit. If not, then I suspect your boss decided the term was being utilized as a slur rather than as a technical term. In that case, it's tough noogies because slighting people that we don't care for with a term that denotes a legitimate condition meant to represent diminished cognitive ability and adaption is not cool.

    Parent

    Oh for goodness sakes (5.00 / 8) (#45)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:11:25 AM EST
    if someone is taking on all the challenges associated with raising a special needs child, the last thing I'm going to judge her on is whether she uses a non-PC term!  There are many things I dislike about her, but this one is a complete non-issue.

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 8) (#54)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:25:25 AM EST
    of course considering that the source is a fool who is making a living by spewing hate about the grandmother of his child, who knows what to believe?

    Parent
    You think (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:20:47 AM EST
    potential voters should believe a word Levi Johnston says, including, as the saying goes, "the" and "and"?

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:23:09 AM EST
    thats certainly Palins answer.  we will see if it flys.

    Parent
    Levi is going to past his "use by" (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:01:08 AM EST
    date by the time next Presidential campaign comes along.  He is getting old really really fast.

    Parent
    Probably not (none / 0) (#95)
    by coast on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:37:28 AM EST
    considering the source of the information.

    Parent
    Here's the thing, Howdy (5.00 / 6) (#96)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:40:23 AM EST
    and I say this as a parent of a special-needs child.  We parents tend to call 'em as we see 'em to get others to do so, and we have to use the terms in the medical books and in the laws to use the laws with schools, employers, etc.  Until someone has been there with us, they cannot know how problematic it can be for a child's specific situation and needs to be mistermed and misunderstood, and thus treated incorrectly.

    Now, my child is not retarded.  The problem is when ALL or most special-needs people are called and/or treated as retarded.  That is, the problem is not the term but the misunderstanding of the term -- and many others that describe quite different chronic conditions and needs also in the laws.

    And so I think that you are misunderstanding the term and the problem with it -- when it is misused.  

    Parent

    Thanks for the sensible and enlightening answer (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Ellie on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:22:26 PM EST
    There's also the issue here of context for a "hot" word which is usually qualified for a specific purpose (medical, educational, social, cultural). Alone, though, retarded is quite neutral and merely refers to being held up, slowed down, arriving later.

    It might have a lower temperature for ESL me since it's latin/French and related to a lot of other innocuous words like, eg, tardy. (Of course, in this hemisphere, I learned the cultural nuances the hard way due to being chronically socially retarded.)

    At my nephews' schools, special needs or mixed needs students are simply called students when in the general student body, with the "needs" qualifiers kicking in at the admin/resources level (to streamline access and delivery of what they need), and beyond that, the therapeutic or educational qualifiers between professionals.

    Fortunately, the students there are pleasantly practical and don't get bent out of shape over missteps. If anything, Levi Palin's the roaring @sshole here for trying to capitalize on the wider abuse of a "hot" word.

    (The closest example of this I can think of extemporaneously is the sh!tstorm the nutters conjured up when self-described lesbian Mary Cheney was referred to as a ... dunh dunh dunhhhhh ... lesbian.)

    Parent

    :) Johnston (none / 0) (#108)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:27:18 PM EST
    Levi Johnston. :)

    Parent
    See? I'm culturally retarded too. (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ellie on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:31:25 PM EST
    The upside is that I've successfully blocked that whole family out of my sphere of awareness.

    But I lounge corrected. :-)

    Parent

    Very true. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:53:43 PM EST
    The public is getting more aware.  A first grader on the play ground asked me if my son was autistic.  Once upon a time all special needs children would have been tossed under the "retarded" label by most who weren't in special needs education.

    Side Note:
    Ohio has dropped "Mentally Retarded".  All services are now under the heading of "Developmental Disabilities".

    Parent

    I wouldn't be surprised (none / 0) (#120)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:02:26 PM EST
    when someone decides that developmentally disabled should become the new slam. Everytime there is a term change thus far, it has turned into a way to insult someone.

    Parent
    Yes, but all those syllables! (none / 0) (#123)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:24:23 PM EST
    "retarded" is only three syllables with lots of nice hard consonants.

    Developmental disability is a whopping TEN syllables!  Too hard to remember or pronounce properly for many people.  Naw, I think that "retarded" will be with us for a long time.

    Parent

    Though there are... (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:41:24 PM EST
    wordy insult comics...developmentally disabled does have the the whole alliteration thing going for it.

    I had a good friend named Ed back in high-school...goofy-looking sweetheart of a guy...people used to call him "Special Ed" to bust his horns.  

    Like all "offensive" words, its all in the context and intent of the speaker...If any of this soap opera is true, I doubt Palin meant to demean her own kid...but who knows.

    Parent

    I have some friends who have a son (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 02:52:23 PM EST
    who doesn't speak.

    Awesome kid, special ed, about 16 y/o, and his family loves him greatly. He just doesn't speak more than a word or two each day.

    His parents very straight-forwardly say "He's dumb." Not "He's vocally challenged" or whatever.

    They accept the reality of the situation.

    Parent

    My cousin can hear but is mute ... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ellie on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 04:03:58 PM EST
    ... and just states her specific capabilities at the outset, ie, doesn't go out of her way to seek out offense for the purpose of indignation. (I completely sympathize; ugh, who'd want to spend all day being the Ambassador from Indignation Nation?)

    Mute used to be "hot" (unPC/offensive, pick your poison) and got dumped for dumb except in pro music/audio talk where it was always used.

    Now that everyone's got a mute function on their entertainment systems and computers, it's not controversial anymore.

    I work in multi-cultural and highly diverse environments and have found most people -- on the giving or receiving end of a gaffe -- to be reasonable and kind once the crusher of awkwardness gets removed. There's malice out there too but more awkwardness.

    Parent

    Yes, my friend's son can hear but can't speak. (none / 0) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 05:21:21 PM EST


    Parent
    waiting for your verdict (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:52:39 AM EST
    on the Pelosi announcment

    Ro-Bust (none / 0) (#10)
    by MyLeftMind on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:12:23 AM EST
    Do not trust the Dems to deliver real healthcare reform. With most Obama supporters still trustingly accepting everything he does, the insurance industry has far more sway on Congress than the American public does. What we need is the public option ONLY without most of the other insurance industry in this bill. We need an expansion of the single payer systems we already have so that all of the public has a choice to buy in. Then we need tax support added to individual and company purchase of that healthcare (not insurance) to bolster those systems so they are less expensive and provide better care than insurance companies.

    We're going to end up with a plan that helps some low income people, makes the insurance industry rich beyond their wildest dreams, and drives another nail in the coffin of the middle class. Worse, when the current so-called healthcare reform bill passes, it will solidify the insurance industry's death grip on Congress and our economy and likely won't ever achieve true healthcare reform.  The insurance industry will have even more control of Congress and the public will pay to pick up the slack of those expensive clients the insurance companies don't want. Since everyone's actually "covered," it'll be the end of the movement for real reform.

    Without a robust public option this plan screws the middle class and working Americans. The question is, when we don't get what we want from Congress, will we fight the lame package they'll try to snooker us with, or sit back as they destroy our chance for real reform?

    The public option has to be open to everyone (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by cawaltz on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:48:32 AM EST
    I don't see how a plan that covers a mere pittance of people and merely the most vulnerable doesn't become a political football to kick around and morphs into something that keeps costs in check.

    I suspect we are running out of time.

    Parent

    Case of Entrapment? (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:15:16 AM EST
    You may have heard about the diehard Phillie fan busted on prostitution charges in her attempt to get tickets and fulfill her dream of attending the W.S...her lawyer says its entrapment.  I'm inclined to agree... the cops have nothing better to do than prowl Craigslist looking to drum-up collars?...get a life dudes.

    A happy development to report...she got tickets from a local radio station.  

    is the "war" taking a toll? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:16:37 AM EST

    Shep Smith Apologizes For "Lack Of Balance" In Fox News Report
    UK funded torture (none / 0) (#27)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:48:59 AM EST
    UK funded torture in the Middle East

    Lame Dem justification (none / 0) (#38)
    by MyLeftMind on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:01:37 AM EST
    of the bill released today by the House

    Pelosi - "this bill will begin to close the donut hole."
    Read - We're gonna buy off the old folks who got screwed by Bush so they don't scream at us as well, but we won't really help them out, we'll just change the way they're paying and hope they don't notice for a while...

    Rep. Steny Hoyer - The development of this bill has been a deliberative, open, transparent process.
    (Well, at least up to the very end when our fearless Dems went behind closed doors to screw us, and now we'll never know which of the 47 Dems got bought off to kill the one component of the bill that would have actually been real reform - the robust public option.)

    Forget Congress. We need to kill this bill and demand access to Medicare and Medicaid instead.  

    This about says it all . . (none / 0) (#41)
    by SOS on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:07:11 AM EST
    "Scores of lobbyists were "cordially invited'' to attend the event in e-mail messages sent Wednesday by Speaker Nancy Pelosi."

    Parent
    Ending "moral hazard" for banks (none / 0) (#56)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:29:55 AM EST
    This is surprising and pretty interesting.  Geithner wants to remove the fed's ability to bail out failing financial institutions.

    That is interesting... (none / 0) (#100)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:50:34 AM EST

    "We cannot put taxpayers in the position of paying for the losses of large private financial institutions," Geithner said. "We must build a system in which individual firms, no matter how large or important, can fail without risking catastrophic damage to the economy."

    I'll believe it when I see them let one of their country-club crony outfits get their just desserts.

    Parent

    On a sports related note (none / 0) (#110)
    by CST on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 12:35:47 PM EST
    It'll be really nice to see Pedro beat the Yankees on a huge stage one more time.

    Go Phillies!

    Yah! Something to root for..... (none / 0) (#113)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 01:11:03 PM EST
    a good start from the wiley veteran Pedro Martinez...say 9 scoreless from Pedro, then 9 extra scoreless frames, then torrential downpours to start the 19th of the 0-0 tie, postponing the remainder of the game.

    That will work:)

    Parent

    I'll see... (none / 0) (#115)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 01:20:59 PM EST
    ...if I can't send some our snow out that way.  

    That'd really fix their wagon...

    BTW, what do you think of my man Shonn now?

    Parent

    Impressive... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 01:28:57 PM EST
    I like his running style...but it was the Raiders:)  With Leon out we need Shonn and Lil' Danny Woodhead to step up big time if we want to remain the leagues # 1 ranked rushing attack.

    I'm thinking this is the week your Broncos get their first L...Ravens look pretty tough, Rice and Flacco are humming.

    Parent

    I'd sure like... (none / 0) (#117)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 01:40:42 PM EST
    ...to have him back with my Hawks now that our starting running back is out for the regular season.  

    I hope we don't lose to the Ravens--bad enough I always have to hear about the whole Elway thing from the crab eatin', NattyBo drinkin' relatives! They've been telling me since pre-season how they we're going to beat us down this year.

    Parent

    In that case... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 01:45:33 PM EST
    I'll be sure to root for Orange Crush, but my inner handicapper says Ravens, not that my inner handicapper picks winners or anything!

    Parent
    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 146 comments (146 topical)

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