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Whose Nose is Longer Than a Telephone Wire?

Update: Polanski's defense strategy could work to keep him out of prison due to the allegations of judicial miscounduct.

Former LA Deputy DA David Wells then (paraphrased from the documentary, "Wanted and Desired"): I wanted Roman Polanski to go to jail. So I told the judge how he could sentence him to prison while avoiding the possibility of Polanski appealing. He did it. Months later, I showed the judge a photo of Polanski in Europe and told him Polanski was "flipping him off." The judge took it personally, as I intended, and decided to sentence Polanski even more harshly at the final sentencing.

Shorter version, David Wells now: I lied in the documentary. I never told the judge anything. He did what he did all on his own. I had nothing to do with it.

[More...]

In January, Wells told The Times that he regretted making the statements but never said they were untrue. Rittenband died in 1993. Wells said today that he notified the district attorney’s office several months ago that he had lied during the film and apologized for his actions.

Why the sudden change? One possibility: He wants to continue to manipulate the system, hoping his new denial will shortcut Polanksi's legal argument and he wants to keep his own as* out of jail:

...Mr. Wells said he was publicly recanting now, in order to clear his actions away from other issues in the Polanski case. But he also acknowledged that the conduct he described in the 2007 documentary, “Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired,” could have triggered an action against him before the state bar. “If it happened, it would have been unethical,” Mr. Wells said.

Not to mention potentially illegal.

Here's Wells both admitting and defending his conduct to the LA Times in 2008:

Wells said his discussions with the judge were in no way inappropriate and dismissed the allegations as irrelevant. "He asked us a legal question. I gave him a legal answer," he said in an interview with The Times. "It had nothing in particular to do with the Polanski case, it was a general conversation about what could be done about sentencing anybody."

Wells, who was the prosecutor on the case during the investigation and for obtaining warrants, also said the photograph he showed the judge was in a German newspaper, and the judge would have seen it whether or not he brought it into court.

..."It's a guy that raped a 13-year-old girl and wants to get no prison time. If that's the case, [Polanski] should be in state prison for life. That's how I feel about it, but remember I was not the lawyer on the case," said Wells, who said he was taken off the case because he became too involved in the investigation and his office feared he might be called as a witness. "If I were the D.A. on the case, he would've been tried, and there would've been" none of these complications.

Here's Wells next version, talking to the LA Times in January, 2009:

Reached at his home in Paso Robles, Wells, who is now retired, said he regretted participating in the documentary. "A lot of that stuff I said was just off the top of my head," he said. Still, he said he thought that Polanski's request would be turned aside.

No mention that he lied or didn't talk to the judge about Polanski. He didn't publicly say he made the story up until yesterday. And he's still sticking to the part about bringing the judge the photo. Is he also denying he told the judge Polanski was flipping him off?

I view this as another blatant (and very transparent) attempt by Wells to manipulate the legal system. Like every lawyer, he was an officer of the court. Yet he inserted (and continues to insert) himself into Polanski's proceedings. I'm not surprised he was removed from the case by the DA's office due to his excessive personal interest in the case. He's still not over it, and continues to express his irrelevant desire to see Polanski do hard time.

On a related note -- the fugitive entitlement issue the DA is relying on to deprive Polanski on a hearing -- here's an interesting tidbit from a 1990 news article:

The California Supreme Court Wednesday ruled that movie director Roman Polanski may defend himself against a civil suit by the 13-year-old girl he sexually assaulted in 1977, even though Polanski fled to France before sentencing.

The victim, now 26 and living in Hawaii, filed a civil suit against Polanski stemming from the unlawful sex in 1977. She argued that Polanski forfeited the right to defend himself in court against her claim because he fled the country and never faced sentencing. The high court rejected the argument and refused to hear an appeal in the case.

So the California Supreme Court has already allowed Polanski to defend himself in civil court, nothwithstanding his lack of presence in this country and before the court, and his status as a fugitive. Why is someone alleged to be a fugitve allowed to defend their property but not their liberty? There's lack of consistency here.

The case settled in 1994, after which the victim asked, through her lawyer, that Polanski be allowed to return without further arrest or imprisonment. Her lawyer said it wasn't a condition of the settlement, the amount of which has not been disclosed.

Back to Wells: According to the state bar's website (no link because it contains his personal information which I don't want to re-publish), Wells maintains an active license to practice law. I'm not surprised he's now concerned about keeping it.

Wells now has three versions:

1. What he said in the documentary: He had multiple ex parte communications with the judge plotting how to send Polanski to prison.. He came up with a way, told the judge and the judge went along. He also showed the judge a photo of Polanski in Europe and told him Polanski was "flipping him off." As intended, the judge got riled and became determined to ignore the probation report and the in-custody psych eval, and sentence Polanski to more time.

2. He only discussed general principles with the judge, never the Polanski case.

3. He didn't talk to the judge about sentencing, he merely showed him a photograph of Polanski in Europe so the judge would think Polanski was being disrespectful. The judge took it from there on his own.

I disagree with those who think Wells' retraction makes Polanski's case more difficult. Wells has destroyed any credibility he might have had as a fact witness. (I won't be surprised to see him take the 5th when supboenaed.) That leaves the judge's conduct, which from the record appears improper in several key respects independent of Wells' instigation and manipulations. As the LA Times noted today,

Wells' statements in the HBO documentary make up a portion but far from all of the misconduct allegations Polanski's attorneys leveled at Rittenband for his handling of the original case.

In my view, this case has been mangled beyond repair, by a DA initially so over-invested in the case he was removed from it by higher-ups in his office, and a judge, who while now deceased, left behind his many ethically questionable and arguably illegal actions to speak for themselves.

Free Roman.

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  • Display: Sort:
    It's a mess all around. (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:15:22 AM EST
    I can't help noticing that all the principles in this mess are all men.  Sexist?  Possibly.  But it is the truth.

    Anyone know of a court that's stacked heavily female?  I want to do a study.

    Minnesota Supreme Court (none / 0) (#4)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 08:26:46 AM EST
    was majority female, as I recall, in the '90s?  Could be an interesting study to content-analyze such a court's decisions.  Go for it. :-)

    Parent
    Well, let's see: (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by tinky on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 08:24:34 AM EST
    "Whose nose is longer than a telephone wire?"

    thank you again (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 08:33:09 AM EST
    for your work on this

    What makes it easy for me to side with (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:52:14 PM EST
    Polanski is that I would find standing in front of a loaded gun less frightening than being at the mercy of an unethical authority of the courts....

    I guess I fear (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:14:05 PM EST
    people who have no regard for the law or the consequences more than I fear some jerk judge in California....

    Parent
    indeed (none / 0) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:33:06 PM EST
    Yep (none / 0) (#113)
    by eric on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 06:05:27 PM EST
    Just saw ex-DA Wells grilled on CNN (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:21:47 PM EST
    and saying again and again that he lied in the  filming, as noted above, because he never thought it would be shown in the USA, etc.  Lying then, lying now?  Who knows.  At best, he is a chronic liar at least some of the time, and this negates so much of the argument for Polanski's side.  What a mess.

    I think (4.40 / 5) (#6)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 08:58:07 AM EST
    Why is someone alleged to be a fugitve allowed to defend their property but not their liberty?

    that he is free to defend his liberty any time he wants, but he wasn't "defending his liberty," he was seeking affirmative relief from the court.  As to why we don't allow criminal defendants in general to defend themselves in absentia the way we do with civil defendants... I think the answer is fairly obvious to everyone.

    It seems absurd to me that anyone at all can say, "I've fled from your jurisdiction, but I want you to dismiss my case anyway... and I'm only coming back if you agree to dismiss it."  You don't get to ask the court how it's going to rule and then decide whether to submit to its jurisdiction!

    Apart from Polanski (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:31:50 AM EST
    Asking for "affirmative relief" has never, in my knowledge, been precluded because it was done through representation by attorneys without the party being present. Indeed, corporation in the states I practice can not ask for "affirmative relief" or even appear, without being represented by attorneys.

    Your point dos not make sense to me. Please explain. Are you making some sort of lack of personal jurisdiction argument?

    Parent

    Speaking for me only (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:37:13 AM EST
    I think Steve's point is you can't have a criminal defendant (or in this case, a convicted felon) ask the court for affirmative relief (dimissing the charges against him) when by the criminal's own actions (committing another crime), he is unavailable to appear before the court

    Parent
    He is saying that of course (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:41:44 AM EST
    the RATIONALE for his saying that is not clear to me.

    As I make clear in my comments, in the civil context, that is simply wrong.

    For example, you can ask for relief from a default judgment AND argue the court has neither personal nor subject matter jurisdiction over you and the matter.

    To wit, you can argue for affirmative relief from a court and not be there and even deny the court has power over you.

    This is a pretty basic concept in the civil context.

    Parent

    Change of Heart? (none / 0) (#19)
    by coast on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:53:15 AM EST
    Yesterday you gave five good reasons why you were staying away from this mess.  Why the change of heart?

    Parent
    Steve's argument on absentia defense (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:03:38 AM EST
    and affirmative relief bothered me a great deal.

    In essence, it had nothing to do with Polanski at all.

    Parent

    Fair enough. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by coast on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:10:22 AM EST
    But be warned, this issue has more sucking power than you can imagine (see number of responses to past threads).  Stay on the fringes as long as you can.

    Parent
    This is as far as I go (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:13:29 AM EST
    And little wonder... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:15:04 AM EST
    it draws so much interest, this case has it all...heinous individual human behavior on display that gets law and order types all riled up, and our crookedly heinous criminal injustice system on display that gets anti-law and order types all riled up.

    Something for everybody to get mad about:)

    Parent

    I like to think I am in neither camp (none / 0) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:19:56 AM EST
    I am not particularly pro-criminal defendants, though I like to think I support due process.

    Hell, I am the guy who believe we can have a preventive detention regime, so long as courts are involved.

    I hate celebrity justice stories.

    And to say the allegations and evidence against Polanski disgust me, as a father of 15 and 11 year old girls, is an understatement. As a father, if it was my daughter, I would not have waited for extradition, they would be extraditing me for what I did where ever Polanski was.

    But that is not justice or policy. That is personal and visceral. And criminal.

    But since it is NOT my daughter, and it happened 30 years ago, it is far enough removed for me to be able to discuss the issue of whether someone should be allowed to make a motion to dismiss in absentia.

    I am unpersuaded by the arguments forwarded for why that should not be allowed.
     

    Parent

    A keen observation my friend. (none / 0) (#32)
    by coast on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:22:52 AM EST
    The thing about the law (none / 0) (#93)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:00:59 PM EST
    is that it's supposed to protect scumbags as well as non-scumbags.  Polanski does appear to have been a scumbag (though remember his wife was hideously murdered by the Manson gang not too long before, so his state of mind may have been totally out of whack), and may still be a scumbag.  But that doesn't mean the judicial system should be allowed to get away with illegal maneuvers against him.

    Parent
    remember his wife was hideously murdered (none / 0) (#94)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    (though remember his wife was hideously murdered by the Manson gang not too long before, so his state of mind may have been totally out of whack)
    For the record, his wife was murdered some 8 years earlier.

    Whether that qualifies as "not too long before" or not is certainly a matter of opinion.

    Parent

    8 years (none / 0) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:58:14 PM EST
    is not a long time to deal not only with the hideous death of his wife but also his child.
    ripped from its mothers stomach as I remember.

    Parent
    In a misdemeanor case, attorney (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:42:27 AM EST
    may represent defendant in court w/o defendant being present.  Felony:  defendant must be present.  Well, unless jury has been sworn and then defendant is in absentia.  Then trial may proceed w/o defendant.  Defendant must be present for felony sentencing.  

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:33:30 AM EST
    You say we do not allow accused person to defend themselves in absentia. Is that true? Can a person not send attorneys to a trial in absentia to act on his behalf?

    If not, I am not at all sure why that is such an obvious policy.

    Parent

    One difference (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:38:38 AM EST
    Polanski is not "Accused" - he pled guilty to a felony.  He fled the jurisdiction before a sentencing hearing.

    Parent
    That is not a difference (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:39:31 AM EST
    That is a different argument altogether than what Steve is presenting.

    Parent
    Apart from Steve's point (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:43:05 AM EST
    Is it your view that Polanski should not be allowed to move to withdraw is plea in absentia?

    The policy reason for this would be what exactly?

    Parent

    It's not me saying it (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:54:04 AM EST
    It's Judge Peter Espinoza who already said it.

    And, yes, since the only reason Polanski wants to make his plea withdrawal in absentia is because he knows the minute he sets foot on US soil, he will be arrested on a warrant for fleeing.  Why should he get that benefit to help him evade justice for another crime?

    Parent

    That is a different issue (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:02:55 AM EST
    If they charge him with fleeing, whatever that crime is, has nothing to do with whether he can withdraw his earlier plea in absentia.

    Let's not confuse extradition with other parts of this process.

    Presumably, Polanski will be extradited unless Switzerland reneges on its treaty obligations.

    I was asking the more conceptual question, really having nothing to do with Polanski at all, as to why people think that defending oneself in absentia is a bad thing policywise.

    So far, I have not heard one rational argument for that position.

    Indeed, I for one would find it ironic if Polanski were extradited, then allowed to withdraw his plea, the state found it impossible to go forawrd with its case and all we are left with is the fleeing charge.

    And then have Polanski go to jail for fleeing.

    I am not familiar with any of the details of this case and was only drawn in by Steve's comment, which I found extremely unsatisfying and surprising.

    Parent

    Ok then (none / 0) (#24)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:09:08 AM EST
    I think you have to look at this case specifically.  It's true, criminal proceedings are held all the time without the defendant, due to unrulyness, illness - even after fleeing (what was that guy's name who killed his girlfriend and stuffed her in the chimney name again?  The Unicorn?)

    But that is a different set of circumstances than what we have here.  In this case, you have aconvicted felon who but failed to appear for a sentencing hearing and became a fugitive.  In my opinion, as a matter of policy, I think the court would have a conflict of interest in allowing a fugitive to appear in absentia, as they are then assisting the furtherance of a crime by letting the fugitive stay away, no?

    Parent

    Einhorn? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:47:09 AM EST
    Stuffed her in a trunk, hid it in a closet.


    Parent
    Not convinced (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:15:15 AM EST
    I think the fleeing is a SEPARATE crime and should be dealt with separately.

    Parent
    Yes it is (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:33:39 AM EST
    But if the court allows him to "continue" to flee (and continuin to commit a crime), while allowing him to redress his grievances in court, then in effect, they are conspiring to the crime because they are "Acting in furtherance of", IMO.

    Doesn't seem like good public policy.

    Parent

    I assume there is a warrant for his arrest (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:35:38 AM EST
    outstanding.

    How is the Court allowing him to flee?

    Parent

    Yes there is a warrant (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:42:07 AM EST
    So in fact, his crime is still ongoing.  

    If the Court would entertain his motion without making him appear, they are still "allowing" him to continue committing his crime.

    Parent

    I disagree with that (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:59:08 AM EST
    Again, the court can address Polanski's motion and STILL seek him for the second crime.

    Parent
    Res gestae. Why does he (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:03:56 AM EST
    want the court to dismiss the entire criminal case against him even though he has already entered a guilty plea?  Because, according to him, the court didn't honor the plea bargain re sentencing and because of alleged judicial and prosecutorial misconduct regarding plea bargain and sentencing.  

    Parent
    I am not arguing the merits of his motion (none / 0) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:05:30 AM EST
    I am taking issue with Steve M's objection to the Court entertaining the motion with Polanski being absent.

    Parent
    BTW (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:05:45 AM EST
    Did Espinoza issue a written opinion on that? Was it appealed?

    Again, I am not really interested in the Polanski part of this but the process part.

    Parent

    Apparently yes as to each question. (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:04:40 AM EST
    Haven't seen links to docs. though.

    Parent
    Apparently, per LAT, Espinoza (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:44:47 AM EST
    didn't initially rule on the motion.  Gave defendant 30 days to appear.  Defense counsel filed notice defendant would not be appearing w/i that time.

    Parent
    Which is really stupid (none / 0) (#69)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:52:08 AM EST
    on Polanski's part.  The judge said he can't rule on the motion until and unless Polanski shows up.  But the judge also watched the infamous movie we've nitpicked to death and thinks there may be merit to Polanksi's claims, so he seems sympathetic to Poalanski.

    Here's the $64 question then, failure to show is a distinct and separate crime from the original charges, right?  If Polanski came back, and the judge granted the motion to dismiss, does the fleeing charge go away too, since but for the original charges, Polanski would not have fled?

    Parent

    Failure to appear is a separate charge. (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:56:18 AM EST
    May be issued as felony or misdemeanour.  Theoretically, the judge ruling on the motion to dismiss could apply the same logic to the FTA, I suppose. BTW, I don't think it will happen.  While Polanski is languishing in detention in Switzerland, he is piling up credit for time served.

    Parent
    One last point (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:36:43 AM EST
    Fed R. Civ P 12 (b) states:

    "How to Present Defenses.

    Every defense to a claim for relief in any pleading must be asserted in the responsive pleading if one is required. But a party may assert the following defenses by motion:

    (1) lack of subject-matter jurisdiction;

    (2) lack of personal jurisdiction;

    (3) improper venue;

    (4) insufficient process;

    (5) insufficient service of process;

    (6) failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted; and

    (7) failure to join a party under Rule 19.

    A motion asserting any of these defenses must be made before pleading if a responsive pleading is allowed. If a pleading sets out a claim for relief that does not require a responsive pleading, an opposing party may assert at trial any defense to that claim. No defense or objection is waived by joining it with one or more other defenses or objections in a responsive pleading or in a motion."

    Arguing that a court lacks subject matter jurisdiction, personal jurisdiction and that even if it did, there is no claim against the party, is allowed under the federal rules.

    Again, I do not follow your point here.


    Parent

    It seems to me (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:35:49 AM EST
    that you raise two separate questions.  First, why is Polanski not permitted to argue a motion to dismiss through counsel, just like our corporate clients in a civil context.  Second, what is wrong with Polanski filing a substantive motion to dismiss while simultaneously challenging the court's jurisdiction.

    The answer to the first is that the law simply does not permit it in the criminal context.  In this case, the relevant statute is Cal. Penal Code 977(b)(1):

    In all cases in which a felony is charged, the accused shall be present at the arraignment, at the time of plea, during the preliminary hearing, during those portions of the trial when evidence is taken before the trier of fact, and at the time of the imposition of sentence. The accused shall be personally present at all other proceedings unless he or she shall, with leave of court, execute in open court, a written waiver of his or her right to be personally present.

    As to the second question, of course one can file a motion to dismiss on jurisdictional grounds and alternatively seek dismissal on the merits.  But Polanski has not contested the court's jurisdiction in the normal sense (in fact, he appeared and pled guilty); instead, he has frustrated the proceedings for all practical purposes by becoming a fugitive.  The status of a fugitive from justice is simply not the same as a civil defendant who merely prefers to appear through counsel.  Polanski is telling the court, "If you agree to dismiss the case against me, that's great and I'll accept your ruling, but if you disagree, I'm just going to remain a fugitive and you can't enforce your sentence against me."

    There's not really a great analogy to the civil context because there's no "fugitive" problem in civil law.  A money judgment can still be entered even without the defendant's presence, and if there's no property within the jurisdiction to enforce the judgment against, that's the plaintiff's problem.  But in a criminal case, you simply have no proceeding at all without a defendant physically present, because the point of the proceeding is to seek his incarceration.

    Not being an expert on criminal law in the slightest, I was pleasantly surprised to find that my off-the-cuff reaction of "this doesn't seem equitable" is actually supported by a lot of legal authority.  In fact, the major thrust of California's opposition to Polanski's motion to dismiss (see pp. 10-16 of this document) is the so-called "fugitive disentitlement doctrine," which provides that a criminal defendant doesn't get to flee the jurisdiction but continue to contest the merits.  The doctrine is most often invoked to hold that a fugitive cannot appeal his criminal conviction, for the exact same reason that applies to Polanski: you don't get to say "if I win that's great, but if I lose you can't punish me anyhow."

    In fact, out here in the real world, it seems that's exactly the basis on which Polanski's motion to dismiss was denied!  The court said it wouldn't consider the motion to dismiss unless Polanski showed up within 30 days and submitted to its jurisdiction, and I think that's exactly right.  Otherwise it's "heads I win, and tails you lose."

    Parent

    Two response (none / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:38:30 AM EST
    As to whether a defendant must be present, the law you cite says "The accused shall be personally present at all other proceedings unless he or she shall, with leave of court, execute in open court, a written waiver of his or her right to be personally present."

    Now it is true that Polanski has not executed such a waiver in open court, but something tells me that is not the basis of your point. To wit, it is Polanski's RIGHT to be there, not his obligation to be there.

    Second response in a separate comment.

    Parent

    But this is not (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:51:16 AM EST
    simply a case of the defendant preferring not to show up personally for a motion hearing.  He is a fugitive from justice altogether.

    I think the law cited in the state's brief makes clear that the defendant's fugitive status is not, as you suggest in your other comments, a completely separate matter that has to be prosecuted as a separate crime.  I would find it absurd (and the law apparently agrees) if someone could flee the jurisdiction after being sentenced for a felony and then expect the courts to expend their resources on hearing his appeal, knowing that if his appeal is denied there's no consequences because he's just going to remain a fugitive.

    Parent

    I addres that point in another comment (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:56:16 AM EST
    But I think it is clear that this particular provision is intended to provide the accused with the right to be at all proceeding, not the obligation to be there.

    Parent
    Defendant is obligated unless the court (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:15:15 PM EST
    excuses his presence upon written request.  Not defendant's call to make.

    Parent
    I can read (none / 0) (#114)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 06:29:54 PM EST
    An d that is not what the statute says.

    The trial can not proceed without the defendan UNLESS the DEFENDANT waives in court.

    The judge has no discretion in the matter as written.

    Parent

    Me too. I think our statutory interpretation (none / 0) (#115)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 06:44:49 PM EST
    differs:

    The accused shall be personally present at all other proceedings unless he or she shall, with leave of court, execute in open court, a written waiver of his or her right to be personally present.


    Parent
    "with leave of court" (none / 0) (#116)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 07:33:57 PM EST
    but this is not the actual fact pattern in any event.  It's not a case of a defendant who has submitted to the court's jurisdiction but wants to be excused from a particular motion hearing.  It's a defendant who says he'll only show up and accept the court's ruling if it's going to be in his favor.

    Parent
    This is interesting. Miura tried and (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 12:24:18 AM EST
    convicted in Japan for murder in LA.  Reversed by appellate court in Japan.  Arrested on LA County extradition warrant overseas.  Claimed double jeopardy, which was apparently litigated in his favor before he came to U.S.  LAT articles indicate defendant made some appearances by video from Japan.  DDA had argued defendant had to be present in LA Superior Court for double jeopardy motion to be heard.

    Miura case per Wiki

    Parent

    Very interesting (none / 0) (#118)
    by Steve M on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 07:28:56 AM EST
    I was just a kid, but I think I remember that incident from the 80s!  Did the court decide he had to show up in person to litigate the motion?  I think the case of someone who flees the jurisdiction might be different from someone who was never brought before the court in the first place.

    Parent
    He was supposed to go to trial in LA (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:00:18 AM EST
    on conspiracy to commit murder I think.  The court in LA (maybe appellate) found it was double jeopardy to try him a second time for murder.  Law had changed in CA to permit it but I think the court disagreed.  I read some news accounts of him appearing by video while he was fighting the double jeopardy issue and extradition.  Unfortunately, he hung himself in LA detention facility w/i days of arriving in LA.  

    Parent
    Makes sense to me (none / 0) (#38)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:39:52 AM EST
    Second response (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:43:35 AM EST
    You write "The status of a fugitive from justice is simply not the same as a civil defendant who merely prefers to appear through counsel.  Polanski is telling the court, "If you agree to dismiss the case against me, that's great and I'll accept your ruling, but if you disagree, I'm just going to remain a fugitive and you can't enforce your sentence against me."

    If the case SHOULD be dismissed on the merits, it seems not relevant to me that Polanski is not submitting himself to the court's jurisdiction. In the civil context, you accept that it is irrelevant. Instead you argue:

    "There's not really a great analogy to the civil context because there's no "fugitive" problem in civil law.  A money judgment can still be entered even without the defendant's presence, and if there's no property within the jurisdiction to enforce the judgment against, that's the plaintiff's problem."

    Not sure why this analogy does not hols in the criminal context. If the accused should have the action dismissed, then it should be dismissed, irrespective of whether the defendant is present.

    You write that "in a criminal case, you simply have no proceeding at all without a defendant physically present, because the point of the proceeding is to seek his incarceration." How is that different from a defendant in a civil case not being present or holding property there?

    It seems to me quite analagous. One last comment coming on the disentitlement doctrine.

    Parent

    the Fugitive Disenntitlement Dcotrine (none / 0) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:54:52 AM EST
    seems to be based on the argument "that's how we always have done it."

    That is good for a legal brief, but hardly persuasive in terms of policy.

    Indeed, the cases cited argue that NO TRIAL should go forward while the accused is not within the jurisdiction of the court. To wit, Polanski's mistake was fleeing TOO late. He should have fled before pleading and going to jail. He was not going to be tried in absentia.

    The brief you link to also cites this "See Ortega-Rodriguez v. United States (1993) 507 U.S. 234, 239-240 [122 L. Ed. 2d 581, 113 S. Ct. 1199] [noting that it is within a court's discretion to refuse to hear a criminal case when the defendant fugitive cannot be made to respond to any ruling].)

    My emphasis. That seems the better rule imo.

    I do think conflating the crime of fleeing with the crime charged is a policy mistake.

    Polanski pled guilty to one charge and seems to clearly have committed another.

    But he is arguing for dismissal of the first charge (implicitly he is seeking to withdraw his plea it seems to me) but has no answer for the second.

    A miscarraige of justice (as Polanski alleges took place in the first charge) is not defensible imo by arguing he committed a second crime.

    they should be treated apart from each other.

    Obviously, California law appears to disagree with me, but that does not make it the right policy.

    Thus, Judge Espinoza ruled as he should apparently, but I can still disagree with the policy adopted by California in these matters. And I do.

    Parent

    Polanski is trying to have case (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:59:13 AM EST
    dismissed w/o giving up the benefit of the plea bargain.  

    Parent
    Not following that (none / 0) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:07:13 AM EST
    but not sure it is germane to my point.

    If you are saying his motion should be denied for the reason you state, that is different than saying his motion should not be heard because he is not there.  

    Parent

    I was disagreeing with your contention (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:11:11 AM EST
    Polanski was impliedly asking the court to set aside his plea.  Jeralyn disagrees but, to me, the last thing Polanski wants is to set aside his plea, as the dismissed counts would then be reinstated against him--huge potential prison time if convicted.

    Parent
    I can not imagine (none / 0) (#61)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:17:22 AM EST
    any other way around it. But I am no criminal lawyer.

    Of course he has to withdraw his plea.

    Parent

    Not at all (none / 0) (#62)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:20:16 AM EST
    Polanski's two scenarios are (1) the court dismisses his case due to misconduct or (2) he continues to remain a fugitive.  I suppose there's always (3) a negotiated resolution.

    But there is no scenario - well, short of the present situation, where the state may succeed in physically dragging him there - where Polanski intended to say "fine, I withdraw my plea, I want to stand trial on the original charges."  Why would he, when he can just remain a fugitive?

    Parent

    Last I looked (none / 0) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:22:12 AM EST
    He was in a jail in Switzerland waiting to be extradited.

    What did I miss?

    Parent

    I assumed (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:28:54 AM EST
    that when you wrote "But he is arguing for dismissal of the first charge (implicitly he is seeking to withdraw his plea it seems to me)" you were saying that his motion to dismiss in 2008 was an implicit attempt to withdraw his plea.

    In the current state of affairs, if Polanski is unsuccessful in fighting extradition, presumably his first order of business will be to renew his motion to dismiss.  The fugitive disentitlement doctrine won't be an issue any more and the court will have to decide the merits.

    Of course the most likely outcome is a negotiated resolution to the whole sordid state of affairs, which is too bad because it's interesting to see these issues actually litigated.

    Parent

    Well actually (none / 0) (#59)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:13:14 AM EST
    yes, if you flee before trial you can't be tried in absentia.  I think that's for constitutional reasons.  So why is it okay for the trial to proceed if he flees during trial?  I think it actually makes perfect sense that the defendant does not get to wait and see how the trial is going to turn out, or wait and see if he likes the sentence, before deciding whether to flee.

    Sure, Polanski would have been better off (or at least equally bad off) to have fled earlier - if he knew in advance what the sentence would be.  Instead, he got to take a free shot at seeing whether he would like the sentence.

    I think the policy behind this doctrine makes perfect sense if you understand that the law is not being made by disinterested philosopher-kings, but rather by the very sovereign that has an interest in seeing its punishments enforced.  Sure, you can disincentivize fleeing by making it a separate crime, but you can also say "We're not going to allow our judicial resources to be used by people who are going to wait for the result before deciding whether they will abide by it."

    Parent

    Not US constitutional reasons (none / 0) (#60)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:16:36 AM EST
    But on the policy point, you really think a fugitive is weighing the disentitlement doctrine when deciding whether to flee? Pshaw.

    Come up with a different policy rationale, like the people don't like "criminals." that one makes more sense to me.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:31:45 AM EST
    there is no absolute ban on trials in absentia under the Constitution, but there certainly are constitutional concerns raised by trying a defendant when he's not present and is unable to confront the witnesses, etc.  The courts haven't had to delineate exactly when a trial in absentia is constitutionally permissible because Fed. R. Cr. P. 43 prohibits them, unless the defendant is physically present at the start of trial and flees thereafter.

    Parent
    Steve, I need to hedge my previous (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:50:49 AM EST
    predictions.  I didn't know Polanski asked entire LA County Superior Court to recuse itself.  Didn't happen, so Espinoza is the assigned judge (assigned case to self apparently as he is LA Co. Superior Ct. Criminal Presiding judge).  

    Also, if you watched the "documentary," please let me know if the judge accused of misconduct appeared in the film.  I think he died before the film was made. If so, seems to me to get his statements in Polanski's attorney would have to testify re the motion to dismiss.  Agree?

    Parent

    Now, oculus, you know better (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:56:51 AM EST
    than to write about the dead judge's potential misconduct, what with the TL rule you often cite about speaking ill of the deceased.

    It apparently doesn't apply to judges. :-)

    Parent

    the rule applies when people die (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:13:54 PM EST
    We don't speak ill of the dead on the occasion of their death. Like in RIP threads.

    The judge died in 1993. And it's his legal actions that are being attacked here, not his character. For example, I have not joined the bandwagon attributing his motives to ego or a desire to satisfy the media. Not once have I mentioned his personal life or even his scrapbook, as others have. But there are judicial rules of conduct and there are statutes by which his actions can be judged. He gave a press conference in his chambers that he allowed to be filmed. You can watch him at his desk, surrounded by cameras and microphones, explaining what he intends to do and why. His insistence on voluntary deportation alone was an illegal condition of a sentence. Both the prosecutor in the case and the defense lawyer have signed sworn declarations about his conduct. They allege he had them stage a hearing (two actually and it would have been three had Polanski shown up for his final sentencing.) And on and on.

    Parent

    He gave a press conference (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:50:07 PM EST
    He gave a press conference in his chambers that he allowed to be filmed. You can watch him at his desk, surrounded by cameras and microphones, explaining what he intends to do and why. His insistence on voluntary deportation alone was an illegal condition of a sentence.
    Well, it's unclear to me what from what your write as to what he specifically said at this press conference, but if he did say at that presser that he was insisting on [voluntary deportation, then it does not sound like he believed that insistence was illegal.

    Why would he tell the press that he was doing something illegal?


    Parent

    it doesn't matter if he thought it was legal (none / 0) (#95)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    it wasn't and he should have known it. He is on tape telling the press he would only cut Polanski's sentence short if he was either deported or voluntarily agreed to deportation. He shouldn't have been talking to the press about what he intended to do in a pending case. You can watch him in the documentary or read the transcript of his comments to the press in the motion to dismiss which has a transcript of the documentary, including the judge's press conference.

    After that press conference, Polanski's lawyers moved to disqualify him from the case. The judge was removed from the case on Feb. 24, 1978.

    Parent

    On tape, but not under oath? (none / 0) (#99)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:45:32 PM EST
    How does anyone prove when he was telling the truth? No witnesses to the actual events in the judge's chambers, right?


    Parent
    a link to this, but what are documents related to Polanski's lawyers' move to disqualify the judge called, and where can I find them?

    Parent
    Do you mean (none / 0) (#74)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:06:39 PM EST
    Polanski's original attorney from 1977?  I assume he would be a key witness and, in fact, I thought he had already given a declaration in support of the motion to dismiss.

    Parent
    I would still like to know (none / 0) (#76)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:09:24 PM EST
    If the original attorney felt he was being forced into a sham proceeding, did he file a bar complaint against the judge, as he was ethically obligated to do?

    Parent
    Polanski did file a motion to disqualify the judge (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:17:40 PM EST
    and the judge submitted a declaration in response and was thereafter removed from the case.

    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#81)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:22:25 PM EST
    filing a motion is great and all that, but he was ethically obligated to report him.  Why didn't he? (besides the, "Oh, he'll have to practice in front of him again" stuff). If he didn't, that alone would be a violation on his part.

    Parent
    No, I mean the judge who purportedly (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:46:32 PM EST
    reneged on the plea bargain and who purportedly insisted on video of sentencing hrg. and vol. deportation of Polanski.

    Parent
    different judges (none / 0) (#96)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:28:09 PM EST
    the trial judge renegged on his promise to Polanski regarding the sentence and demanded voluntarily deportation. After he was removed from the case and it went to a different judge, the allegation is that the second judge demanded the hearing on the motion to dismiss be televised. The seond judge (and the court's press office) deny requiring the hearing be televised.

    Polanski then moved for the entire LA Superior Court to be disqualified. Another judge denied the motion because Polanski isn't here, and I think that appeal is still pending.

    Parent

    Ah. Any link available to (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    docs. in DCA?  (I'm no longer have access.)  Thanks.

    Parent
    Here is a link to docket in (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:52:09 PM EST
    Court of Appeal.  Looks like case was scheduled for oral argument for Sept. 09 but appellant's counsel requested different date.
    DCA

    Parent
    Can you make a special appearance (none / 0) (#27)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:14:55 AM EST
    in a criminal case?

    Parent
    No idea (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:21:24 AM EST
    I know nothing about criminal procedure.


    Parent
    Me either (none / 0) (#33)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:27:54 AM EST
    That's pretty obvious--as to both of you! (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:48:23 AM EST
    And don't forget:  this is California criminal procedure, not federal civil procedure!

    Parent
    Lots of reasons why I've offered absolutely (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:49:18 AM EST
    no opinion on this case.

    Parent
    I accept that (none / 0) (#47)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 10:56:57 AM EST
    I was arguing against Steve M.'s comment, not the Polanski matter per se.

    Parent
    Please note requirement counsel (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:01:23 AM EST
    be present on behalf of corporation is due to legal fiction re corporation.  No carryover to criminal procedure.  

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:04:19 AM EST
    are you saying a corporation can represent itself in a criminal case? the President can argue the case?

    Interesting.Of course that would never happen.

    Parent

    At least in California state court, the (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:06:34 AM EST
    corporation must be represented by counsel in a criminal case where the corporation is a defendant.  At least according to a former colleague who was prosecuting a corporation.

    Parent
    That is also the case in the civil context (none / 0) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 11:07:54 AM EST
    So it is the same then.

    Parent
    Yeah the answer should be pretty obvious (none / 0) (#84)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:52:56 PM EST
    if one is able to defend one's liberty from afar- one can basically choose to abide only if the outcome is in one's favor- money on the other hand is far easier to control from abroad.

    To put it in real world terms- why would anyone ever show up for trial if they can simply leave the jurisdiction, have the case argued and then never return if they lose.

    Parent

    According to CBS (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 06:47:28 AM EST
    Wells said he would testify in court that he lied and has offered to give a sworn declaration to prosecutors about his actions, in case they need it. No one from the district attorney's office has contacted him since he made the offer several months ago, he said.

    Wells said he showed Rittenband a copy of a newspaper that pictured Polanski with girls at an Oktoberfest event. Wells said he never talked about potential sentences and the judge would have seen the paper anyway.

    Link

    So, would it make sense for him to face a perjury charge now?  Why else would he offer to give a statement under oath now?

    "Thin blue line" (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Peter G on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:16:57 AM EST
    Good guys/ bad guys mentality.  Loyalty and comradeship runs deeper than integrity in far too many "law enforcement" officers, including some prosecutors.

    Parent
    True (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:26:42 AM EST
    But I've also met sleazy criminal defense attorneys too.  Just proves there's sleazy people in all walks of life.  Which prompts another question - if, as Jeralyn wrote yesterday, his defense attorney at the time was (paraphrasing here) "forced to go along with the sham of the proceedings", then a) didn't his attorney have an ethical obligation to report that to the bar, and b) a question we will never know the answer to - was there any indication that his attorney may have "suggested" fleeing as an option?

    Parent
    While some defense attorneys (none / 0) (#112)
    by Peter G on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:45:35 PM EST
    have shown themselves to be lacking in either integrity or guts, or both sometimes, I don't think that "so's your old man" response is very germane, jb.  I am not aware of any pattern of defense lawyers filing false affidavits (or even just dissembling) to cover up one another's misconduct, or judges' misconduct, which would be the analogy here.

    Parent
    Two Reasons... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:33:37 AM EST
    To admit he spoke with the judge would be misconduct, and there is no living witness any longer to say his newest statement is a lie.

    It's unlikely he would be called as a witness by anyone. The State wouldn't want to offer up an officer of the court as a witness that has made two conflicting statements, and the defense could let the film stand alone.

    Knowing far more about baseball than the law, although I did spend an inordinate amount of time in Family Court, I stand by my belief that (at this time) this case is a tempest in a teapot.

    Parent

    wise (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 09:46:43 AM EST
    words

    Parent
    How would (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:00:43 PM EST
    The film get introduced into evidence?  It's hearsay.  Wouldn't it have to be authenticated?  And since allegeldly the judge involved in on tape inthe film, he can't be cross-examined by the State, so, exactly how does the film stand alone?

    Parent
    My question also. Not a given. (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:13:01 PM EST
    I think (none / 0) (#92)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:49:53 PM EST
    that certain statements from the film could be admissible as admissions against interest, and thus nonhearsay.

    Parent
    I still wonder (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:59:54 PM EST
    How many criminal defense attorneys here and elsewhere would be apoplectic if their clients were convicted based on a highly edited documentary with a viewpoint?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#107)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:13:05 PM EST
    the standard for convicting someone is higher than the standard for not convicting them.  But the point is valid.

    We do have, though, the full unedited interview with this prosecutor, as part of Polanski's motion to dismiss papers.  I personally find it implausible that someone would just invent a confession to serious misconduct like that; it's like saying you bribed the judge or falsified evidence.  Normal attorneys wouldn't just make up a story like that for entertainment value.  Then again, if the story were true you wouldn't expect someone to admit to it either ("all these years I've harbored the secret of how I illegally influenced the process in this trial... but I guess I might as well confess it all to this movie producer!") so who knows, really.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#109)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:18:44 PM EST
    But as any good criminal defense attorney would do, they would have to find out the following about that interview, as implausible as they may be - Was he under the influence of something? Did they piece togther pieces of his interview? etc....

    But the fact that so many here (including defense attorneys) are screaming - "It's in a movie!  It's the complete truth!" without the slightest bit of skepticism or questioning, is really amazing.  Seems like a prevailing attitude is criminals = persecuted and misunderstood; police, prosecutors, judges = all corrupt and bad.

    Parent

    Dude? (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by coast on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:02:04 PM EST
    "Seems like a prevailing attitude is criminals = persecuted and misunderstood; police, prosecutors, judges = all corrupt and bad".  You do know what site you are posting on, right? ;)

    Parent
    From J's link, (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:02:12 PM EST
    the reason why Polanski got off so easy:
    The plea agreement called for the judge to decide punishment based on the arguments of attorneys and a probation officer's report.

    That report recommended no time behind bars, citing in part Polanski's mother's death in the Holocaust as well as the murder of his pregnant wife by members of the Charles Manson gang.

    "It is believed that incalculable emotional damage could result from incarcerating the defendant whose own life has been a seemingly endless series of punishments," a parole officer wrote.

    Truly fascinating.

    Waaa (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:07:40 PM EST
    "I've had a hard time in life (which no one is denying), but I'm rich and famous, so both of those should allow me to get away with a horrible crime."

    Pathetic.

    Parent

    Then I would guess (none / 0) (#77)
    by coast on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:11:58 PM EST
    that PO is against the three strike rule.

    Parent
    The report (none / 0) (#87)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:05:14 PM EST
    also gave him credit for "showing concern" for the victims birth control status- gotta love a PO who views an additional crime and violation (look how he expressed said concern) as a reason for leniency I mean wow (at the very least it gives credence to those who say Polanski co-opted the criminal justice system).

    Parent
    I lied? (none / 0) (#80)
    by yttik on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:20:06 PM EST
    Thank you for bringing this up. It struck me as bizarre to have a DA basically imply, all is well, there was no misconduct because I thought it would be okay to lie since I didn't think the movie would be seen in the US?  Is this some form of compartmentalized integrity I haven't heard of?

    I'm astounded that so many writers and news articles seem to feel like this was good news for the prosecution. Yay, there was nothing to the misconduct accusation because the DA admitted he lied. Uhhm?? Lying is misconduct, especially when your job is to present the truth in a court of law.

    Uh, (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    he said the stuff he said as few years ago on camera in a movie were lies.

    He did not say he lied while in court or when performing his duties 30 years ago as a prosecutor.

    Parent

    BS-detector (none / 0) (#90)
    by Yando on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:16:37 PM EST
    he said the stuff he said as few years ago on camera in a movie were lies.
    He did not say he lied while in court or when performing his duties 30 years ago as a prosecutor.

     Yes, he said that, but it  doesn't ring true.
    Prosecutors are more likely to
    distort the  truth in
    a  courtroom with cops and "legal" people
    around than in some documentary that is
    supposed to look back and help people  figure
    things out.
    What was  his motivation to lie for the  film?
    Sorry, I'm not  buying it.

    Parent

    to be in a movie.

    That said, I don't think it really matters which statement is a lie, only that one of them is.

    Because of his lie(s) his credibility is  seriously compromised, and the only other party to what he did or didn't lie about doing is dead.

    Parent

    he may be dead but (none / 0) (#97)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:30:42 PM EST
    his statements in and out of court are on record and have been preserved.

    Parent
    True enough, true enough. (none / 0) (#101)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:46:59 PM EST