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Thursday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:26:27 PM EST
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Lambert needs some help. Even though he rips me all the time, he's got a great blog. If you agree with me, give him a hand. (Speaking for me only)

This is an Open Thread.

KDog is going to see Bruce on Friday. They are doing the Darkness album, one of the great albums of all time. So, in the hopes that I get to go too, here is a performance of "Streets of Fire," circa 1978:

< Obama Organization: No Public Option? No Big Deal? | Thursday Afternoon Open Thread >

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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 176 comments (176 topical)

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    I will gladly contribute (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:49:48 PM EST
    to Lambert's continued passionate pissed-offness. Sometimes I don't agree with him, but his dedication to the cause of true, unrepentant liberalism is undeniable and much appreciated.

    Plus, I will not forget how he helped me out with technical difficulties when I was first learning to blog on the now-defunct State Roots Project site.

    But I need a street addresss so I can send a check because I just hate, hate, hate Paypal.

    I just sent him some funds (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:52:33 PM EST
    I didn't have to sign into paypal, and I didn't because I don't care for it either.

    [ Parent ]
    Thx (none / 0) (#23)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:37:59 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Under the "Donate" button, (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:53:36 PM EST
    it says, "No Pay Pal Account Required" - and if you look in the comments, you'll see that you can skip PayPal and just use a credit/debit card.

    [ Parent ]
    and thx. (none / 0) (#24)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:38:14 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    World's oldest human-linked ancestor found (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:13:13 PM EST
    Link

    WASHINGTON - The story of humankind is reaching back another million years with the discovery of "Ardi," a hominid who lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.

    The 110-pound, 4-foot female roamed forests a million years before the famous Lucy, long studied as the earliest skeleton of a human ancestor.

    This older skeleton reverses the common wisdom of human evolution, said anthropologist C. Owen Lovejoy of Kent State University.

    Rather than humans evolving from an ancient chimplike creature, the new find provides evidence that chimps and humans evolved from some long-ago common ancestor -- but each evolved and changed separately along the way
    This fascinates me to no end (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:37:25 PM EST
    Thanks for linking it.

    [ Parent ]
    Indeed. 4 feet tall and 110 lbs. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:45:55 PM EST
    And all muscle I presume.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, right. (none / 0) (#90)
    by steviez314 on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:22:59 PM EST
    And I bet the next thing you'll tell me is that dinosaurs roamed the Earth 65 million years ago.

    Any idea when the next time the dragon eats the Sun?

    [ Parent ]

    No no (none / 0) (#123)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:24:06 PM EST
    The dinosaurs helped build the Pyramids, doncha know?  ;)

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks... (none / 0) (#161)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:37:03 PM EST
    I particularly enjoyed - "Humanzee, Fact or Fantasy?"

    [ Parent ]
    Can't be! (none / 0) (#99)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:30:04 PM EST
    I just read where only a third of American's believe in evolution! (unreal) I still haven't found where they get did this poll. But if it's true,it goes a long way in explaining why we're lagging behind some many countries in education.

    [ Parent ]
    Obviously a misprint... (none / 0) (#104)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:36:49 PM EST
    "...a hominid who lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia."

    They meant.... a monkey that lived 6000 years ago in Europe.

    There, I fixed it.

    [ Parent ]

    Cool. (none / 0) (#105)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:37:08 PM EST
    The earliest date for hominid origins keeps getting pushed back. But an evolutionary origin in Africa for humans is hardly ever disputed anymore.


    [ Parent ]
    not disputed (none / 0) (#110)
    by CST on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:46:04 PM EST
    except by something like 50% of the U.S. population.

    Sigh....

    [ Parent ]

    yep (none / 0) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:50:49 PM EST
    Attitudes of Republicans & Conservatives by demographic to evolution

    [ Parent ]
    It would be interesting to know the world-wide (none / 0) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:51:13 PM EST
    % that dispute it.

    [ Parent ]
    fwiw (none / 0) (#118)
    by CST on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:02:43 PM EST
    I remember reading something (no I'm not gonna look it up now) that said we were waaaaay behind Europe and a lot of the rest of the world as well.  Not sure about less developed countries.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't doubt that, (none / 0) (#154)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:08:16 PM EST
    I bet it depends pretty strongly on the religiosity of the countries.

    [ Parent ]
    No, I meant (none / 0) (#133)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:45:47 PM EST
    the geographic center of human origins (in Africa) is not much disputed anymore - not so long ago, this was still a big controversy scientifically.

    The dispute about evolution itself - that I know is still an uphill battle!

    [ Parent ]

    I know (none / 0) (#144)
    by CST on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:54:50 PM EST
    I was just thinking that people who don't believe in evolution probably think humans come from Eden (in the middle east somewhere?).

    You were talking science, I was talking social science.


    [ Parent ]

    Ah, I get it. Funny! Where is Eden anyway? (none / 0) (#155)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:10:59 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    pennsylvania (none / 0) (#156)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:15:08 PM EST
    I think

    [ Parent ]
    It would have to be somewhere (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:18:51 PM EST
    where serpents and apple trees occur together, right?

    [ Parent ]
    BTD, you're a mensch (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by lambert on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:32:25 PM EST
    I appreciate the kind words, and perhaps even as the much the help out of the economic hole I periodically dig for myself by being a more-or-less full time blogger!

    * * *

    Now, let me cast about for something to be pissed off about ...

    * * *

    As far as a physical mail address, I'd like to keep the remaining shreds of my old-school pseudonymity. All I can suggest is that you find someone who doesn't mind PayPal, and work through them.

    * * *

    And thanks for helping out the blog that everybody hates and nobody reads!

    Don't worry... (none / 0) (#26)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:39:55 PM EST
    I read it.

    And I'll find a way to contribute $ that inconveniences neither of us.

    [ Parent ]

    its (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:47:27 PM EST
    vegetarian day

    I celebrated with a rib eye for lunch.

    LOL. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:53:56 PM EST
    I'm going for BBQ tonight. My vegetarian night is usually Sunday...

    [ Parent ]
    Why, I ate a vegetarian only yesterday. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:06:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    If a vegetarian only eats vegetables, (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:11:45 PM EST
    what does a humanitarian eat?

    [ Parent ]
    (Credit to Pete Seeger, iirc) (none / 0) (#91)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:23:15 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Ah, relief. (5.00 / 6) (#32)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:48:27 PM EST
    My kindergarten son is now happily following most routines in his special ed and mainstream class and has not needed to be frogmarched anywhere.  He's still not a model citizen, but he has stopped attempting to manipulate his teachers on a daily basis.  He makes his bus driver nervous, but she's a naturally nervous person.  My other kid's driver is an animal behaviorist, which I think is a very complementary career. ;-)

    Congrats (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:55:43 PM EST
    to you and son.

    [ Parent ]
    Happy to see your son is doing (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:07:47 PM EST
    well in his special ed and mainstream class.

    My daughter is an OT for the special school district and works primarily with pre-kindergarten children many who are autistic or have Aspergers. She truly loves her kids. The paperwork that she is required to fill out on over 30 kids is another story. She is often up until the wee hours catching up on all her reports.

    [ Parent ]

    He does OT. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:02:48 PM EST
    I think his problem is motivation more than anything.  It's hard for me to imagine he really has innate problems with fine motor skills.  Now actually practicing and using his fine motor skills, especially on command - that he does have problems with.  It's the attention deficit again.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh Good (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:42:42 PM EST
    I personally think that the world could use more animal behaviorists.  It is surprising how what we imagine in our minds telegraphs that energy into those dependent on us and becomes reality.  And since we have also discussed the Nazi party today, let's face it...sometimes being a "model" citizen is overrated :)

    [ Parent ]
    Excellent news, Fabian. (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:38:40 PM EST
    Good to hear your little guy is adapting to the rigors and rules of the education system. And I am so glad that you have been able to get both your boys what they need from an early age.

    My nephew, who lives in a very backward school system had problems from day one and was classified as a "troublemaker". His mom kept moving from school to school trying to find a place where he would fit. Finally, at age 13 he was diagnosed with Asperger's. All those lost years are proving to be very difficult to overcome even now that his issues are known and acknowledged.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry to hear that. (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:43:48 PM EST
    Some schools are very proactive at identifying everything from learning disabilities to developmental disorders.   The public is a little more aware than they used to be, although misinformation is still being spread.  Good on his mom for trying to figure it out and succeeding.

    It's very important to talk about these issues in an honest and open way.  It helps to dispel myths like "There's nothing wrong with that kid that ___ wouldn't fix!" or "She just needs to try harder.".  Unfortunately, sometimes the people you hear that from are teachers.

    [ Parent ]

    True confession: Just signed up (5.00 / 5) (#103)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:34:23 PM EST
    for e mail notification re docket and disposition re Polanski case at court of appeal.  

    heheh (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:03:34 PM EST
    I would quote you saying something about not having a dog in the fight, but I think that was over 100 comments about the case ago!

    [ Parent ]
    An intervention is in order. (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:35:54 PM EST
    I put an open ended question on Facebook re Polanski's arrest and got no, count 'em, no takers.  

    [ Parent ]
    oculus has a facebook!! (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:51:19 PM EST
    allright, fess up, you must use Twitter...

    [ Parent ]
    Nope. And I don't have all that many (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:53:25 PM EST
    "Friends" either.  Plus my daughter repeatedly tells me I'll never be her "Friend."  Don't blame her though.  

    [ Parent ]
    Hahaha (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:02:11 PM EST
    yeah, Facebook is ruthless like that.  I loathe the whole thing.  Hopefully it will die off like myspace is supposedly doing.

    [ Parent ]
    I am on the cusp with one of my (none / 0) (#160)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:36:18 PM EST
    nieces.  So I've stop commenting there.

    [ Parent ]
    Especially since that Facebook user (none / 0) (#167)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 06:21:34 PM EST
    put up the questions of whether Obama should be killed.

    [ Parent ]
    Is your facebook a bunch of lawyers (none / 0) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:46:45 PM EST
    like mine is a bunch of dog people?  And no takers?

    [ Parent ]
    Friends and relatives. Some of my (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:49:15 PM EST
    best friends are lawyers!  One is a judge but I advised her not to respond!

    [ Parent ]
    Arnold is about to comment on this (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:24:51 PM EST
    to Blitzer.  Is he relevant oculus in how any of this can or cannot go down?

    [ Parent ]
    I suppose he could try and pressure (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:31:41 PM EST
    Steve Cooley, LA Co. DA not to proceed with extradition.  But all those big name Hollywood folks who raised such an outcry the Polanski was arrested are getting some serious pushback by moviegoers and some media.  

    If a superior court judge sentenced Polanski to state prison, the Gov. has the power to commute the sentence.  Don't know if the Gov. can pardon people or not.  

    We're talking about the Gropenator here though.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah (none / 0) (#134)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:46:02 PM EST
    How could a Law And Order type sell that to the faithful?

    Isn't Ahnold term limited?  He can't run again, unless he wants to try for something else.  (Can non-natives be Senators?)

    [ Parent ]

    He's a lame duck as Gov. Could run (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:47:53 PM EST
    for U.S. Senate and there have been rumors.  Even as Di-Fi is watering down Feingold's FISA revise proposal.

    [ Parent ]
    I wonder if a lame duck will (none / 0) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:53:15 PM EST
    lie on film to seem to be more important?  I don't know what to make of that dude.  I watched an interview with him and he looked down the whole time.  Could only see his lids.  He only looks up at the camera every 2 mins or so.  What is he looking at down there?

    [ Parent ]
    Good question. Apparently he isn't (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:54:50 PM EST
    real tall so can't be the teleprompter.  Did he say anything re Polanski?

    [ Parent ]
    Zip (none / 0) (#153)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:08:07 PM EST
    But he told Blitzer he will take a polygraph if the DA says that he can to prove that he lied in the documentary and he isn't lying right now. Then he reminds Blitzer that polygraphs aren't admissable or something.  He knows he is going to be held professionally accountable for his actions.  He says he will say nothing though that will make things more difficult for the DA to come up with a jury.  He says that it is going to be as difficult to come up with this jury as it was to come up with O.J.s

    [ Parent ]
    I'm sorry oculus, I think I was unclear (none / 0) (#157)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:18:04 PM EST
    I was complaining about the Wells interview by Blitzer.  Before the Arnold.  Very bizarre, looked down the whole time but appeared to be answering questions and not reading statements.  Said nothing meaningful though outside of he is  such a liar. I've never seen anyone so openly nonchalant admitting to such masses that he lied......at some point here :)

    [ Parent ]
    Pretty disappoining for a long time DDA. (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:38:25 PM EST
    Did he seem at all confused mentally?

    [ Parent ]
    His speech was clear (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:53:31 PM EST
    He worded things well.  And I guess he's a compulsive liar of some kind.  When Blitzer asked him if he lied to simply appear to be more important in what went down in the Polanski case he told Blitzer that Blitzer just explained what he did better than he did himself.  But my daughter tells me it was always better to just confess to what I was suspiciously accussing her of, because it kept me stupider about what was really happening than if she used her own excuses :)

    [ Parent ]
    He harbors some resentment at being (none / 0) (#165)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:55:27 PM EST
    taken off the case.  He's is quite fortunate Polanski never sued him, as the DDA who participates in the investigation doesn't have qualified immunity.  

    [ Parent ]
    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 06:05:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Arnold is way under water in CA (none / 0) (#142)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:53:50 PM EST
    He's not running for as much as dogcatcher again.

    [ Parent ]
    Hey, he's still married to Maria Shriver. (none / 0) (#145)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:55:37 PM EST
    Stay tuned.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe she'll go back to NBC (none / 0) (#149)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:01:46 PM EST
    They'll sub her for David Gregory. Watch.

    [ Parent ]
    just found this (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:42:23 PM EST
    as the result of a discussion on another blog and thought it was funny enough to pass along.
    you may remember:

    ABSTRACT: In this dream, which the writer has had on the night of the full moon for the past 3 months, he is giving a cocktail party in honor of Yma Sumac, the Peruvian singer. Since all of his guests seem to know him rather intimately & do not know one another, Miss Sumac suggests that he introduce the guests only by their first name. The guests are: Ava Gardner, Abba Eban, Oona O'Neill, Ugo Betti, Ona Munson, Ida Lupino, the young Aga Khan, Ira Wolfert, Ilya Ehrenburg, Eva Gabor, & Uta Hagen. Complications arise when he has to make the introductions. "Yma, Uta; Yma, Ava; Yma, Oona; Yma, Ona; Yma, Ida; Yma, Ugo; Yma, Abba; Yma, Ilya; Yma, Ira; Yma, Aga; Yma, Eva." Miss Sumac becomes annoyed. The circle of guests move menacingly toward the writer. When the bell rings & it is the Polish concert pianist, Mieczyslaw Horszowski, the dream ends.

    link

    it was the result of (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:47:40 PM EST
    talking about Alan Graysons kids.  His kids are named Skye, Star, Sage, Storm and Stone.

    [ Parent ]
    Funniest thing!! (none / 0) (#116)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:58:37 PM EST
    Ok, this is just way, way funny.  I loved it.  

    [ Parent ]
    Fed Judge nominee for Western Wiscinsin (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Ben Masel on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:19:20 PM EST
    former State Supreme Court Justice Louis Butler's been selected by the Administration from the short list recommended by the Statye's Commision on Judicial Appointments, and forwarded by Senators Feingold and Kohl.

    Butler, originally appoined to fill a vacancy on the State's top Court by  Governor Doyle, lost his seat after turning his re-election campaign over to the wirst incompetents ever to manage a Statewide race here.

    Grapevine has it Butler's first case on the Federal bench will be the retrial of my excessive force suit against the University cops who peppersprayed me for collecting ballot signatures for my 2006 US Senate race.

    Tchris' post on my 1st trial, Ben Masel's Jury Hangs

    Yes, I had such schadenfreude today (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:37:16 PM EST
    reading of this fine nomination.  I hope Butler is getting a laugh, at last, of that goshawful unethical  candidate of the corporate interests who took Butler's seat on the state Supreme Court.  

    [ Parent ]
    Lambert has a tremendous wit, (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:36:13 PM EST
    even if he does manage to occasionally piss me off.

    I love him (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:42:55 PM EST
    He never pisses me off.  There was a diary at Corrente with the title 'Eff BTD' that I read once too, I don't think Lambert wrote it though....but it was chewing BTD out for his stance on something to do with the primaries.  I thought it was very expressive :)  BTD doesn't chap me though either.  They just give their opinion, but some people cannot seem to be able to abide the not niceness of either Armando or Lambert :)  I like that Lambert fixes his own house all the time.  I relate.

    [ Parent ]
    So, Lambert is a "him." (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:20:31 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm pretty sure (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:43:57 PM EST
    Though not completely.  I was assuming oculus.

    [ Parent ]
    Since you ask... (none / 0) (#169)
    by lambert on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 08:03:40 PM EST
    Yes.

    * * *

    One of the nice things about old school blogging under handles is that you don't know the sex or gender or age or race of the writer, so the focus is on the writing alone.

    [ Parent ]

    Confession: I thought Lambert (none / 0) (#174)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:03:24 AM EST
    was a "she."  Good job of keeping gender neutral in your comments here.  Plus I always enjoy your comments.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#176)
    by lambert on Mon Oct 05, 2009 at 10:53:39 PM EST
    I've conceded to "they" vs "he or she" for example. Otherwise... Well, it's been said elsewhere that I "eviscerate" people. But I suppose that's gender neutral, too. See eg Kill Bill.

    [ Parent ]
    Do you feed him in this trouble (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:37:30 PM EST
    using the Corrente donate button?

    The Polanski vs. Art issue (none / 0) (#7)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    Here is a great article about artists, their crimes, their politics and how we read/watch them.  Written by a very clever and bright Norwegian.

    Something beyond the sensational from either side, makes ya think, imagine that.  

    Thanks for linking this article. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:07:25 PM EST
    Elizabeth Schwarzkopf is another example, controversial to this day:  NYT

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks (none / 0) (#10)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:12:18 PM EST
    and you are most welcome.  I miss those late nights..!!! Have you been to visit your daughter lately?  

    [ Parent ]
    She had the audacity to move back to U.S. (none / 0) (#14)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:19:24 PM EST
    Now what's my excuse?

    [ Parent ]
    Not the same thing to me at all (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:15:06 PM EST
    Who did she hurt with her own two hands or genitals?  I just don't feel the same way considering how many Iraqis were drug into interogations for being Baathists during Bush's DeBaathification B.S. when many of these people were only attempting to live in the reality they were born into.  If you wanted to be a professor in Iraq you literaly needed to join the party.

    [ Parent ]
    I actually (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:28:38 PM EST
    have more of an issue with someone becoming a Nazi in order to work than with someone like Roman Polanski.  Individual sins are one thing, but advancing a fascist political agenda is another in my book.  Give Gunter Grass credit (although he is an entirely separate case and younger at the time) he at least has extensively tried to deal with his association with the SS.  None of this "Vissi d'arte" BS.

    [ Parent ]
    Why the Vissi d'arte reference. (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:32:19 PM EST
    Don't you believe Tosca was justified in killing the man who was about to rape her?  

    [ Parent ]
    Having never seen Tosca (none / 0) (#63)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:37:57 PM EST
    I am unqualified to say!  Sounds like she was justified based on what you wrote there.

    No, I was referring to this line in the article you posted:  

    In an interview with The Times in 1983, Miss Schwarzkopf denied she had been a party member. But when told of these documents by The Times, she admitted that she had joined the party. "We thought nothing of it," she said. "We just did it." In a letter to The Times, she expanded on her explanation: "It was akin to joining a union, and exactly for the same reason: to have a job."

    In other interviews, she quoted in her defense the first line of Tosca's famous aria: "Vissi d'arte," which translates, "I lived for art."[emphasis mine]



    [ Parent ]
    Got it. I think she sang for the leaders (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:41:13 PM EST
    of the Nazi party and SS, but maybe she had to do it.  Martin Bernheimer, former LAT music critic, doesn't buy her apologia.  

    [ Parent ]
    I always thought C.G Jung (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:52:09 PM EST
    got off a little too easily in that regard due to his quasi-guru status he has to the present day with his supporters.

    There he was, a member of the elite intelligensia in Germany from the twenties through the forties, and yet, if you go by his writings, we're expected to believe he had little detailed idea of what was actually going on in Germany all that time.

    [ Parent ]

    Fine....fine (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:00:31 PM EST
    You are right.  I did not meditate this morning.  My Chi is thoughtlessly Foo.

    [ Parent ]
    Jung and the Nazis (none / 0) (#151)
    by Dark Avenger on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:07:30 PM EST

    He would later describe the Führer thus: "Hitler seemed like the 'double' of a real person, as if Hitler the man might be hiding inside like an appendix, and deliberately so concealed in order not to disturb the mechanism ... You know you could never talk to this man; because there is nobody there ... It is not an individual; it is an entire nation."[36] In 1943, Jung aided the United States Office of Strategic Services by analyzing the psychology of Nazi leaders.[37]

    In an interview with Carol Baumann in 1948, Jung denied rumors regarding any sympathy for the Nazi movement, saying:

        It must be clear to anyone who has read any of my books that I have never been a Nazi sympathizer and I never have been anti-Semitic, and no amount of misquotation, mistranslation, or rearrangement of what I have written can alter the record of my true point of view. Nearly every one of these passages has been tampered with, either by malice or by ignorance. Furthermore, my friendly relations with a large group of Jewish colleagues and patients over a period of many years in itself disproves the charge of anti-Semitism.[38]

    Mandatory Link

    [ Parent ]

    Weeeellll.... (none / 0) (#71)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:51:01 PM EST
    IMO, you don't have to do anything.

    [ Parent ]
    lets not forget (none / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:45:13 PM EST
    Leni Riefenstahl

    [ Parent ]
    The story I always heard (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:21:46 PM EST
    about Hamsun was that he loathed the English and their abysmal colonial history THAT much. Ditto for the many Irish nationalists who, during WWII, were less than inspired by the idea of "fighting them in the streets..fighting them on the beaches"

    Perusual, the wounds people carry all-too-often blind them to the exigencies of the present. And, as Vonnegut said, so it goes.

    [ Parent ]

    Mmmmmmm (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:52:22 PM EST
    The general suckiness of who I am that comes with being a human being.  I was just thinking, I just gave Lambert the fruits that as of yesterday come from whacking the "supposed" Taliban.  Sorry Lambert....you may notice that it spends the same if you can abide blood money.

    [ Parent ]
    I was about to thank our military for (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:04:00 PM EST
    protecting me sooooo thoroughly today.  Blue Angels are practicing for Miramar Air Show.  Very loud.  And soooo close to where Navy jet took out a couple houses and one family such a short time ago.  

    [ Parent ]
    Mmmmmmm again (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:10:43 PM EST
    The sonic booms of the largest military industrial complex this world will ever know, since we have officially hit full capacity.  Could anyone actually build a bigger one without starting out with a larger planet?

    [ Parent ]
    Very well said... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:02:05 PM EST
    and a well written article...I agree wholeheartedly with it.  I love and enjoy the art of many a not so nice person, even downright sick persons...the art stands on its own, and I won't deprive myself of what little beauty there is to be found in this world just because the creator happens to be bad news as a person.

    I recommend a cool little book, "Genius and Heroin: The Illustrated Catalogue of Creativity, Obsession, and Reckless Abandon Through the Ages" by Michael Largo...I found it interesting as hell how many great artists, thinkers, leaders were seriously f*cked up people.  

    [ Parent ]

    some of the most (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:08:06 PM EST
    gifted people I have ever known have been seriously f'ed up.  some have died from drugs or other crazy stuff.
    genius and madness are not that far apart.


    [ Parent ]
    Definitely not... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:14:41 PM EST
    far apart at all...pick up that book man, I think you'd like it, perfect for bathroom reading too, put together like an A-Z encyclopedia of degenerate genius.

    Even Joe McCarthy made the cut for his historical importance as the commie witch-hunter in Congress, as well as a drop dead degenerate drunk.

    [ Parent ]

    Tortured souls and minds... (none / 0) (#51)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:23:15 PM EST
    ...have given us some of our most brillant works of art, film, writing and music.  

    There is most definately a relationship between creativity and being less than well adjusted.

    [ Parent ]

    Which is why Polanski told the (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:13:25 PM EST
    PO he didn't want to get therapy.  Might destroy his creativity.

    [ Parent ]
    Also allegedly (none / 0) (#87)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:19:31 PM EST
    Why Barbra Streisand won't get her nose fixed - thinks it will ruin her voice.

    [ Parent ]
    not that original (none / 0) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:22:37 PM EST
    John Cage once, when asked if you would ever be psychoanalyzed said, "no.  I have no doubt it might rid me of my devils but I fear it might offend my angles".


    [ Parent ]
    Have you heard a performance of the (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:25:22 PM EST
    Tasa Coils at U of I?  I found a video on You Tube.  Fascinating.  But the music was very unCage-like.

    [ Parent ]
    "Tesla Coil" (none / 0) (#95)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:27:49 PM EST
    link

    [ Parent ]
    I will look (none / 0) (#98)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:30:03 PM EST
    Cage is my hero since I was about 17.

    actually I just found by googling that he was actually quoting someone else in that quote named Rainer Maria Rilke

    [ Parent ]

    Rilke ... (none / 0) (#115)
    by nfstltx on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:57:18 PM EST
     December 1875 - 29 December 1926) is considered one of the German language's greatest 20th-century poets -per Wikipedia

    [ Parent ]
    As an artist, I say "hogwash" to that (none / 0) (#172)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 02:48:47 AM EST
    There are many brilliant creative artists who are/were quite well-adjusted. I can name dozens of brilliant jazz players who fit that description. Yep, jazz players, the ones who are supposedly depressed drug addicts.

    But people like to believe the myth. It's more "interesting". I, personally, find it tiresome.

    [ Parent ]

    John Boehner wants you to call him! (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:07:53 PM EST
    The public option is "about as unpopular as a garlic milkshake," House GOP Leader John Boehner (Ohio) said Thursday.

    Boehner inadvertently invited the public to lobby him in support of the government-run healthcare plan endorsed by the Democratic leadership.

    "I'm still trying to find the first American to talk to who's in favor of the public option, other than a member of Congress or the administration. I've not talked to one, and I get to a lot of places and I've not had anyone come up to me -- I know I'm inviting it -- and lobby for the public option," Boehner said.

    "This thing (the public option) is about as unpopular as a garlic milkshake," Boehner added, noting that he had not consumed such a milkshake.

    We should flood his office.

    I can certainly see why, (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:14:46 PM EST
    to insurance industry vampires, poised to suck more blood from the American people, the public option would be as popular as a garlic milkshake...it's too bad that instead of trying to drive a stake into the greedy heart of the insurance industry, legislators like Boehner would prefer to kill the public option.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks Boss!.... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:24:49 PM EST
    Found out I got my dates mixed up, seeing the Boss tommorow, and they are playing "Darkness on the Edge of Town" in its entirety, Saturday is "Born in the USA" in its entirety...glad I'm going tommorow, "Darkness..." is a far superior album imo.

    Bruce and the E Street gang decided to make the last Giants Stadium run a little special, played "Born to Run" in its entirety for the opening night of the stand...how cool is this sh*t?

    Be there or be square Tri-Staters:)

    Just curious. How much is your ticket? (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:29:48 PM EST
    I'm wavering over the "purchase" button for a very expensive ticket to the Met, and Levine may not be conducting afterall as he is having back surgery followed by a min. three week hiatus from conducting.

    [ Parent ]
    Not sure exactly... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:33:57 PM EST
    my buddy laid it out, but I think it is right around a hundo.

    [ Parent ]
    The Boss has not announced any West Coast (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:41:23 PM EST
    dates yet. :-(

    [ Parent ]
    That would demo an extreme change of (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:51:49 PM EST
    musical taste!

    [ Parent ]
    Leonard Cohen (none / 0) (#130)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:37:37 PM EST
    I put out a lot to see Leonard Cohen in November.  Bought 2 xtra tickets, come to find out, I don't have many friends who love him as much as I do.  Go figure.  

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe you'll get some takers here. (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:39:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    where are you (none / 0) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:48:36 PM EST
    I would totally take one

    [ Parent ]
    Do you know (none / 0) (#148)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:59:21 PM EST
    the way to San Jose?  Got tix for closest show.  

    [ Parent ]
    geeez (none / 0) (#152)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:07:57 PM EST
    its almost worth it.
    almost.

    [ Parent ]
    And yet... (none / 0) (#46)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:19:22 PM EST
    ...they played little ole Des Moines, I-oh-way just a little while ago.

    Heartland beeches!

    [ Parent ]

    Lucky dawgs! (none / 0) (#50)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:22:47 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Oh... (none / 0) (#18)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:31:35 PM EST
    ...you're going to miss the deluded idiots who think BITUSA is some sort of uber-patriotic song?  Pity, that.

    I tell you to have a great time, but I know that's already a given!

    [ Parent ]

    LOL... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:41:03 PM EST
    Yeah...how that tune is so often misconstrued.

    But if they play "41 Shots" I'll get to hear the deluded law and order idiots boo again, like they did at Shea last time I saw him...but even those dolts won't be able to spoil this good time! F*ckin' Darkness man!!!

    [ Parent ]

    Huh. (none / 0) (#38)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:56:21 PM EST
    And here I thought TL had the L&O zealot market cornered.

    F*ckin' Darkness man!!!

    For some reason, when I read that, I hear this

    [ Parent ]

    Double LOL.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:05:08 PM EST
    I really miss that show..."F*ck your couch!"

    [ Parent ]
    I'm trying to get tickets for Friday (none / 0) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:24:59 PM EST
    Darkness the best.

    [ Parent ]
    The seem to out there, (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:15:12 PM EST
    although $1 seems like a typo:
    bruce springsteen 10/2/9 - $1 (gaints stadium)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Date: 2009-10-01, 6:49AM EDT
    Reply to: sale-evhk6-1400940570@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i have to 2 tickets for friday night's bruce concert in the 100's section. if interested please call or text gary at 973-255-0414. will not split the tickets. both together. the concert of a life time. tickets will go fast so first come first serve...DO NOT EMAIL CALL THE NUMBER PROVIDED. IF U EMAIL I WILL NOT RETURN A RESPONSE.

    *Location: gaints stadium
    *it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

    PostingID: 1400940570



    [ Parent ]
    I have a source I hope (none / 0) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:17:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I got f*cked (none / 0) (#146)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:57:29 PM EST
    No ticket. I am so pissed.

    [ Parent ]
    Good Luck bro... (none / 0) (#168)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 07:23:33 PM EST
    Trek down there, somebody will be scalping...Darkness man!

    Good stuff with the linkage.

    [ Parent ]

    I assume (none / 0) (#93)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:24:19 PM EST
    that it is not a typo, but an effort to avoid leaving evidence of ticket scalping...

    [ Parent ]
    Ahhh, yes. No email record, etc. (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:44:48 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Query: at live concerts do they (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:15:43 PM EST
    project the text like at the opera?  Terrific lyric on the clip but words are inaudible to moi.  Also, is that Bruce wailing away on the guitar?  

    [ Parent ]
    No. (none / 0) (#88)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:20:26 PM EST
    Most in the audience know the words by heart.

    When the night's quiet and you don't care anymore,
    And your eyes are tired and there's
    someone at your door
    And you realize you wanna let go
    And the weak lies and the cold walls you embrace
    Eat at your insides and babe I ain't no liar I walk
    Streets of fire

    I'm wandering, a loser down these tracks
    I'm dying, but girl I can't go back
    'Cause in the darkness I hear somebody call my name
    And when you realize how they tricked you this time
    And it's all lies but I'm strung out on the wire
    In these streets of fire

    I live now, only with strangers
    I talk to only strangers
    I walk with angels that have no place



    [ Parent ]
    And the wailing guitar? (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:28:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Probably not, he usually plays chords. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:33:08 PM EST
    Steve Van Zandt, likely.

    [ Parent ]
    (ie, Bruce usually plays rhythm) (none / 0) (#106)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:38:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He sure was moving around alot whilst (none / 0) (#112)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:47:58 PM EST
    someone else's guitar wailed.  

    [ Parent ]
    Yep, he's a mover arounder. (none / 0) (#117)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:00:31 PM EST
    Very energetic.

    Jungleland 2001.

    Steven's the guys with the doo rag.

    [ Parent ]

    Jungleland (none / 0) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:07:46 PM EST
    The rangers had a homecoming in harlem late last night
    And the magic rat drove his sleek machine over the jersey state line
    Barefoot girl sitting on the hood of a dodge
    Drinking warm beer in the soft summer rain
    The rat pulls into town rolls up his pants
    Together they take a stab at romance and disappear down flamingo lane

    Well the maximum lawman run down flamingo chasing the rat and the barefoot
    Girl
    And the kids round here look just like shadows always quiet, holding hands
    From the churches to the jails tonight all is silence in the world
    As we take our stand down in jungleland

    The midnight gangs assembled and picked a rendezvous for the night
    Theyll meet `neath that giant exxon sign that brings this fair city light
    Man theres an opera out on the turnpike
    Theres a ballet being fought out in the alley
    Until the local cops, cherry tops, rips this holy night
    The streets alive as secret debts are paid
    Contacts made, they vanished unseen
    Kids flash guitars just like switch-blades hustling for the record machine
    The hungry and the hunted explode into rocknroll bands
    That face off against each other out in the street down in jungleland

    In the parking lot the visionaries dress in the latest rage
    Inside the backstreet girls are dancing to the records that the d.j. plays
    Lonely-hearted lovers struggle in dark corners
    Desperate as the night moves on, just a look and a whisper, and theyre gone

    Beneath the city two hearts beat
    Soul engines running through a night so tender in a bedroom locked
    In whispers of soft refusal and then surrender in the tunnels uptown
    The rats own dream guns him down as shots echo down them hallways in the
    Night
    No one watches when the ambulance pulls away
    Or as the girl shuts out the bedroom light

    Outside the streets on fire in a real death waltz
    Between flesh and whats fantasy and the poets down here
    Dont write nothing at all, they just stand back and let it all be
    And in the quick of the night they reach for their moment
    And try to make an honest stand but they wind up wounded, not even dead
    Tonight in jungleland

    [ Parent ]

    Nice video. I know Springsteen (none / 0) (#125)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:26:43 PM EST
    wrote the lyrics.  Who wrote the tune?  Who did the arrangement?  Is this "The Band"?  Terrific saxaphonist and, amazingly, everyone, including Springstten, stood still and listened.  Nice.

    [ Parent ]
    Barefoot girl sitting on the hood of a dodge (none / 0) (#170)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 02:20:02 AM EST
    Barefoot girl sitting on the hood of a dodge
    Drinking warm beer in the soft summer rain

    [snip]

    Outside the streets on fire in a real death waltz
    Between flesh and whats fantasy
     and the poets down here Dont write nothing at all,
    they just stand back and let it all be
    And in the quick of the night they reach for their moment
    And try to make an honest stand
    but they wind up wounded, not even dead
    Tonight in jungleland

    My sons, born and bred in LA where it only rains in the cold of the winter, will likely never know how deftly the picture painted by the lyrics about a barefoot girl sitting on the hood of a dodge drinking warm beer in the soft summer rain can slice into the soul of a teenage boy.

    I'm in my mid-40's and this song still raises the hair on the back of my neck.

    Sorry I don't have the specifics you are interested in on this song, although I believe Bruce is the core and foundation of everything musical in his band.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh, yes, "the band." (none / 0) (#171)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 02:21:16 AM EST
     The East Street Band.

    [ Parent ]
    E? (none / 0) (#173)
    by Steve M on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:02:10 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Uh, yes. (none / 0) (#175)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:17:09 AM EST
    Note to self: Don't be writing emails and checking TL after midnight...

    [ Parent ]
    They did (none / 0) (#70)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:47:19 PM EST
    the Born to Run album in its entirety at their recent Chicago concert and I was really bummed I couldn't make it up there to go with my friends.

    [ Parent ]
    If there's no public opt, I'll raise you one . . . (none / 0) (#17)
    by Doc Rock on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:30:39 PM EST
    . . . no to Obamacare and to ObamaRhama!

    Shield law (none / 0) (#22)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:37:44 PM EST
    Another example of the change we can believe in. The administration is fighting the proposed new shield law:

    "They noted that as a senator, Mr. Obama had co-sponsored an earlier version of the "media shield" bill and that Mr. Holder had testified in favor of such legislation".

    Politico reports (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:39:39 PM EST
    that the Senate bill is expected to have some kind of public option.

    Depends on the definition of public option (none / 0) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:51:17 PM EST
    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) called the public option a "relative term" and Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said "there is not one way to Rome, there are lots of ways to Rome."

    "Remember, a public option is a relative term," Reid said. "There's a public option, there's a public option, and there's a public option. And we're going to look at each of them."

    The Senate will only be able to muster support for a "variation" of the public option, Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) said Monday.
    ...
    Durbin said during an appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" that he could get a filibuster-proof 60 votes for a public option "if there's a variation on the theme, perhaps," mentioning nonprofit cooperatives or the "triggered" public option as possible variations.

    All the Dems need to do is change the definition of a public option and magically a trigger or a co-op is THE Public Option. Seems that is what Reid is talking about to me.  


    [ Parent ]

    Yes (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:59:47 PM EST
    but as we know, labels matter more than substance. If the Senate passes something called a public option, it could theoretically be reconciled with something better.

    [ Parent ]
    Or, the house bill (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by dk on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:17:55 PM EST
    could be negotiated into something much worse.

    [ Parent ]
    That true, even likely (none / 0) (#59)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:32:24 PM EST
    But with all of this, bad legislative outcomes are a risk. So, what to do?

    [ Parent ]
    That doesn't sound bad (none / 0) (#49)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:21:53 PM EST
    although Reid, sheesh, where does he get this stuff ("There's a public option, there's a public option, and there's a public option.")  And Durbin needs to shut up.

    For me it's all about the cloture.  That is all on Obama and he better make it work.

    [ Parent ]

    Not sure I agree (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:32:41 PM EST
    triggers are written so that they will never go into effect and the CBO has said that co-ops will do nothing to control costs.

    Mandates without a real mechanism to control costs are IMO nothing more than a complete $900 billion give away to the insurance industry and phrma.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh, I don't think (none / 0) (#82)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:12:52 PM EST
    triggers are good or anything.  This is just a slightly different tune than "public option will never make it through the Senate."  When it obviously should.

    [ Parent ]
    Just curious. When may we expect (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 01:55:31 PM EST
    to see a review of former Gov. Palin's memoir here?

    Have you pre-ordered your copy? (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:27:10 PM EST
    Is there anything that is unknown, or hasn't already been said?

    [ Parent ]
    Ha. I won't be reading it. Just trying (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:28:24 PM EST
    to stir things up here.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, well..... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:30:08 PM EST
    I was going to simply post, "hey, troublemaker" :)

    [ Parent ]
    I've noticed you do a good job (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:34:23 PM EST
    stirring things up.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks. I do my best. But have (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:35:27 PM EST
    to acknowledge BTD's ROMAN POLANSKI is a bunch better at stirring things up.

    [ Parent ]
    And she does it (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:32:38 PM EST
    in such an elegant and polite way!

    [ Parent ]
    I heard Tina Fey (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    was doing the audio book

    [ Parent ]
    also the title (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:47:17 PM EST
    "Going Rogue" was a typeo.
    is actually "Going Rouge"

    [ Parent ]
    David Letterman has already reviewed it. (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:06:03 PM EST
    As with Sarah Palin's term, he could only get half through it.

    [ Parent ]
    Per Huff Post, Harry Reid calls for (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:23:39 PM EST
    Pres. Obama to help vet rid of DADT.

    Snowe (none / 0) (#67)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:45:43 PM EST
    Has anyone shown President Snowe this article!

    Mainers "overwhelmingly support a government sponsored non-profit health insurance option, 63% to 27%

    Not sure that President Snowe or (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:04:09 PM EST
    many of our Democratic politicians cares a whole lot what their constituents want. Haven't seen much evidence to indicate that they are listening to anything other than Fox TV and the orchestrated crazies there and at the town hall meetings.

    [ Parent ]
    And to think, the other day everyone (none / 0) (#74)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:59:57 PM EST
    was all over my business for saying that Polanski's The Ghost was the real target of the extradition request and the reason for its timing.  Seems like the trades are thinking the same thing.

    I'm missing something in that link. (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:23:38 PM EST
    Talks about how it might be Polanski's last movie (huh???), and he might have trouble editing the film, etc.  Nothing I saw about reason for extradition warrant being executed was to stop film from seeing the light of day.  

    [ Parent ]
    X2. (none / 0) (#97)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:29:02 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    An enigma. (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 03:30:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Go to the link I'll provide below. (none / 0) (#159)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:21:13 PM EST
    The thing is, he's been making a movie about a UK PM facilitating torture (for the US). Good cast, etc.

    Now, while the movie's in post-production, the director gets busted on a 32-y/o warrant and locked up (where he can't work on the movie) and the movie still can't get distribution.

    And, as my prior comments on this thread note, not only has the US government interceded (bigfooted) already to keep the UK courts from releasing informaton about UK personnel involved in torture (which involves the US, too), but stopping this movie would further help squelch any public demand for investigations, let alone prosecutions.

    Someone on the earlier thread derided this as a "conspiracy theory", to which I responded that the problem is, it makes sense.  32 years is a long time to hold off catching a guy who moved around freely and in public and was anything but anonymous.

    So, tell me a different reason for "why now".

    [ Parent ]

    I thought you'd found someone in (none / 0) (#163)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 05:41:59 PM EST
    the film industry who agreed with your theory!

    [ Parent ]
    Rick Perry's trying to cover up Willingham (none / 0) (#126)
    by jr on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:26:58 PM EST
    http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5906EB20091001

    Fired 3 board members (including the chair) and pushed back tomorrow's testimony by Craig Beyler on the subject of his scathing report (postponed indefinitely).

    Saturday Night Massacre Redux, anyone?

    C-Span right now (none / 0) (#147)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 04:58:05 PM EST
    Senate finance discusses Rockefeller cap on loss ratio.  If you want to make your head spin, watch the excuses.  

    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 176 comments (176 topical)

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