Cheney: No Wrongdoing, No Need for Preemptive Pardons

Vice President Dick Cheney has told the Associated Press there is no need for President Bush to issue preventive pardons for abusive interrogation techniques. Why?

He also said he doesn't think anyone at the CIA did anything illegal during interrogations. He says they followed the administration's legal opinions.

What about waterboarding? Cheney believes the information gleaned from suspects after the simulated drowning is reliable. And,

The vice president said waterboarding has been used with "great discrimination by people who know what they're doing" and produced much valuable information.

He's learned nothing since 2006 when he publicly first endorsed waterboarding. Is he living in an alternative universe or what? 12 days and counting.

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    All right then (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 06:46:38 PM EST
    No pardons.  Which will leave us free to determine whether Cheney was right or not.

    Why risk it? (none / 0) (#13)
    by NMvoiceofreason on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 01:53:51 AM EST
    Is their ego so big they will not see all of their legal reasoning has been rejected by the courts? Will they really leave themselves to hang for doing what they thought was right?

    We coulda impeached them! (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Fabian on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:58:23 PM EST
    But even with a new Democratic administration near, Reid and others still haven't found their gonads.

    I wonder why I ever thought those spineless weasels would ever impeach Bush and Cheney.

    agree completely (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by DXP on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 08:39:29 PM EST
    I like democrats (for the most part) but one weakness is always trying to be 'nice' and 'inclusive'. Of course that comes with the dem demographic territory - the territory of herding cats so.....tread safely....and nicely!

    But some crimes do rise to the level of being worthy of rejecting and punishing -  to set a precident.

    Torture is an old practice and one which has been left to the dark rooms of privacy. In this age of electronic eyes and ears there are very few dark rooms of privacy left and so those practices that we might only allow in the most incredible, dire, and tragic circumstances need to be justified and codified. This in itself is a problem since the world is simply not black and white.

    Nevertheless, this is a stand worth taking and to justify all circumstances as 'dire' is not justice, but there will still be those moments in the lives of the human beings, the interrogators and interrotatees that present the exception to the rule.

    It would be a shame if the dems will not approach this because of some level of shared culpability. Of course, I would not want to be in the upper level dem's shoes legally on this.


    cheney works on the (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by cpinva on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 12:12:44 AM EST
    presumption (disproved by many a USC case) that a legal opinion shields you from the consequences of an illegal act. it doesn't.

    for example, i tell jeralyn that i plan to set up an illegal tax shelter, in the cayman islands. further, i plan to sell it to rich folks, so they can reduce their tax liability too. i pay her to produce a legal opinion stating that the plan appears to meet the burden of the IRC. i will be hard pressed to use that opinion to defend myself, when the irs, treasury and the DOJ come calling.

    it might mitigate my sentence some, unless it turned out i'd neglected to provide jeralyn with all the pertinent facts, like that it's known to be illegal by me.

    however, relying on a legal opinion, to commit illegal acts, is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

    truth be told, i've always been of the opinion that, if you need to seek advice of counsel, to determine if an action you plan to take is legal or not, it probably isn't.

    Legal opinion does not shield, I agree (none / 0) (#12)
    by NMvoiceofreason on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 01:51:12 AM EST
    (Like you need MY agreement). The point of the OLC opinions is to create territories and people to which the law does not apply, kind of like the "enemy combatant's" have no Constitutional rights idea. Since the Bank Robbery Act does not apply to Savings and Loans, the penalties there do not apply, even though the robbery there remains a common law crime.

    It's going to happen (none / 0) (#1)
    by Saul on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 06:29:05 PM EST
    I have written several times before that these preemptive  pardons will come maybe on the last day.  Cheney, Libby, Gonzales, etc etc.  Bush does not want any loose ends so as someone might talk against him and expose some allege crime against him.

    Cheney Lives in His Own World. (none / 0) (#3)
    by santarita on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 06:58:20 PM EST
    In his world torture is simply a technique.  In his world use of those techniques have prevented attacks.  No one ever seems to ask him whether those techniques may not have created a larger group of people who wish us harm and may one day be attackers.

    I enjoyed hearing Dick Cheney today (none / 0) (#4)
    by akaEloise on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:15:34 PM EST
    A sentence I doubted I would ever type, but it was on the NPR newscast, his announcement to the Senate that "Barack Obama of the State of Illinois, having received 365 electoral votes...."

    His ability to lie to advance his interests (none / 0) (#5)
    by Baal on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:30:02 PM EST
    is reminiscent of Mao and Stalin, based on some recent biographies I have read.  I think it is pathological.

    Philippe Sands (none / 0) (#7)
    by lilburro on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 08:16:19 PM EST
    was on Fresh Air yesterday talking about prosecutions and investigations.  He suggested that there are options other than prosecution that allow a nation to come to terms with this sort of lawlessness.  He suggested a Truth & Reconciliation Commission.  One thing he said though, is that it doesn't work if people don't realize what they did is wrong.  Cheney is doing his damndest to make prosecution the only option.

    Dick Cheney (none / 0) (#9)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 11:17:02 PM EST
    is just plain unAmerican, a man who would be an inappropriate candidate for dog catcher.

    Cheney is Richard Nixon's revenge against the nation.

    I think the legal question is different (none / 0) (#11)
    by NMvoiceofreason on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 01:44:26 AM EST
    OLC opinions have the force of law in areas where the courts have not yet rendered an opinion. The question then becomes whether the OLC intentionally misrepresented the law, in which case the opinion is invalid, or if the OLC intentionally tried to narrow the scope of existing precedent to mistakenly create an area where the opinion would then have the force of law without having the authority to do so.

    Yet waterboarding used to be a crime.

    ["In 1983, federal prosecutors charged a Texas sheriff and three of his deputies with violating prisoners' civil rights by forcing confessions."]

    So the OLC tried to redefine treaty obligations to exclude the new category of "enemy combatants" and tried to exclude territory held or used by the US as not being under US control or Constitutional authority. The Supreme Court of the Republican Party has not shared this view so far, and doubtless will find the individual opinions invalid without destroying the useful ability for the government to make such rulings in the first place.

    the banality of evil (none / 0) (#14)
    by Oceandweller on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 12:46:58 PM EST
    cheney is the live proof that what happened during 1933-1945 could/can be re-enacted any where on the planet
    He deserves to be sent to jail for  along time and be given a taste of his own mixture for a few days...
    lets who allowed torture be tortured himself

    for the sake of experiencing, isnt it and rumsfeld with him, mister standing for for 8h without problem....