Friday Afternoon Open Thread:

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:29:30 PM EST
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From today's St. Petersburg Times editorial: McCain's speech failed to deliver on change

[H]is agenda promises only more of the same: tax cuts for the wealthy that the nation cannot afford, an aggressive foreign policy that cannot be sustained and an energy policy short on vision and long on oil drilling that would threaten Florida and provide no near-term relief.

Holding that losing hand, Republicans dealt themselves new cards from a very old deck. Instead of emphasizing experience, the Arizona senator who has been in Washington for more than 25 years tried to hijack Democrat Barack Obama's pitch for change. But there was no innovative thinking in his laundry list of the usual conservative proposals, from school choice to trickle-down economics to market-based health care changes that will not make medical treatment more available or affordable.

More....

There was no clear assessment of America's challenges abroad in the routine scare tactics about the dangers of terrorism and Russia's aggressiveness.

And the convention turned back to the dated, tired GOP playbook of attacking abortion rights, the media, intellectuals, government, activist judges and the Washington elite.

Via Slate: The Sarah Palin FAQ: Everything you wanted to know

Your turn.

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Friday Afternoon Open Thread: | 62 comments (62 topical)

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New Disorder: PDS (5.00 / 0) (#3)
by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:41:33 PM EST

Palin Derangment Syndrome. It's making latte liberals take their eye of the ball and it might cost Obama the election. Right now the front page of DKos is an expose that Palin posted the governor's jet on ebay...but it did not sell after several months, so they sold through somebody else... ewwwwwwwwwwww, gotcha ya Palin! Yep, keep up the petty attacks and watch her popularity soar. Good strategery!

I suffer from the greater affliction.... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:14:23 PM EST

of USGDS...United States Government Derangement Syndrome.

I mean if they don't leave ya a least a little deranged, there is probably something even more wrong with you:)


and the republicans, (none / 0) (#58)
by sancho on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:14:03 PM EST

terrible irony, make better hay out of this frustration than democrats do. its a great scam they got--ruin govt and then blame govt for ruining the rest of us. and then get relected as a republican reformer. lather, rinse, repeat.


: No argument here.... (none / 0) (#62)
by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:56:15 PM EST

for people who think govt. is the root of all evil, they do sure love running it, working for it, accepting the government contracts.
Republican opposition to government reminds me of the Democrats opposition the occupation of Iraq... a line of bull for the rubes, nothing more.

I called PDS as soon as she was named (none / 0) (#5)
by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:44:48 PM EST

as VP and it has been quite evident on the blogs...the dems are trying to play the repub's game, but they just are NOT good at it.


Its what the stoopid young boys do (none / 0) (#39)
by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:52:32 PM EST

and they think they are so helpful. Give them their binkis and blanket and tell them to take a nap.


I'm pretty sure there are only (none / 0) (#61)
by lilburro on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:48:42 PM EST

9 Commandments after all...


Eeew, Indeed (none / 0) (#66)
by ML2000 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:48:44 PM EST

The trouble isn't the transaction. It's that McCain blatantly lied to his supporters. I don't know who I'm voting for yet, but I can tell you that all the lies that have come forward so far about Palin's record, and having John McCain lie on her behalf as well (not to mention that he has completely changed all his positions just to get his party's nomination)... Let's just say they're not painting a pretty picture.


The Daily Show (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Todd on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:45:58 PM EST

Everyone must watch The Daily Show from this week. It has been so spot on. The Gustav/Katrina piece from Tuesday was satire elevated to a level of genius. And Samantha Bee's segment last night on choice was at the same level. Wow. They are so on game. I

: The piece I saw from last night... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:57:19 PM EST

...(repeat of Wednesday) about the blatent hypocracy of the Republican mouthpieces was indeed spot-on.
Both the DS and the Colbert Report have had me LOL'ing.
Go Hurricanes--beat those Gators!

: I saw Tuesday night's show, I think. (none / 0) (#8)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:47:31 PM EST

Maybe it was Monday. Anyway, you are spot on.

: Loved the Gustav/Katrina piece (none / 0) (#9)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:51:16 PM EST

Best they have done for a long time. I've been kind of lukewarm on them lately - glad they are back.

I'm having church's (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by txpolitico67 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:54:15 PM EST

chicken for lunch and listening to the radio here at work.

everyone that i work with is quite engaged about the election. here's the breakdown of my office:

My manager: 50yr old white guy, Texan, republican, voting for Obama

Asst manager: 50 yr old white lady-evangelical and LOVES Palin

2 recruiters: one dem, one rep. they were both going for Hillary. Now, neither one voting because of the primary situation. they feel that neither candidate will be a good choice. the dem recruiter is lamenting that this will be the first time she had been eligible to vote, that she won't. She's 40.

Me: Voting Green Party. I am the smartest of all the people who work here and know more about politics than all of them combined.

Now, I am going to get back to my chicken leg and my Pepsi.

Carry on sweeties.

since you are voting green (none / 0) (#19)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:11:34 PM EST

you may only post 4 comments a day critical of the Democratic ticket or stating your intent to vote green.


Oh yeah (none / 0) (#24)
by txpolitico67 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:15:30 PM EST

Well I will be more respectful and not mention it again. If it means anything I am voting down tix for the rest of the Dems.


: Democracy RULES! (none / 0) (#38)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:32:07 PM EST

The Ohio ticket will have at least 3 options for President/Vice President. Viva the power of the ballot!

The whole Derangement Syndrome thing (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by glanton on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:55:52 PM EST

Is so stupid. Palin, like Bush and like "Candidate McCain," has set people off because of her politics.

The derangement is mostly a description (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:59:19 PM EST

of the irrationality of their response, not the legitimacy of their opposition.


But you have to admit... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Matt in Chicago on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:12:50 PM EST

the wackier the response, generally the funnier it is...

So many crazy Chicken Littles... so few conspiracy theories.


Really? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by glanton on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:15:54 PM EST

Reading Right Leaning sites over the last four or five years, that hasn't been my experience at all.

"BDS" was always used as a tool for blowing off political opposition to him. Delegitamizing political discourse.

On this site and others, the overwhelming majority of Palin blowback has been rational. She is, as Jeralyn keeps saying, a weapon of the Radical Right, and it is not irrational to go after her and McCain on that basis. Nor is it irrational to fear them on that basis.


But, how many people who read (none / 0) (#43)
by JavaCityPal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:20:04 PM EST

TalkLeft are even leaning toward voting for McCain/Palin?

There must be important news about Obama going on. He's still a Senator writing and passing legislation, and out stumping. What's he saying we should be hearing?


: Understand the Rhetorical Situation (none / 0) (#51)
by glanton on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:42:35 PM EST

The week before, there was lots and lots of talk about Obama and about Dems.
This was the GOP's week, it was their convention. People are talking about what they said, and about what they are. Threats demonstrably abound from the GOP, and those who get it, and who care, are simply reacting to those threats.
BTW, speaking of Rhetorical Situations: "PDS" is a Limbaugh-style meme, just like "BDS." Defracts discourse, that is all it does.

McCain and Palin on the stump (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:56:24 PM EST

I heard a little of their stump speeches in Wisconsin today. They are definitely pushing the 'independent reformer' angle hard. Claim to be going to D.C. to clean up the corruption in both parties. Played well with the (probably partisan) crowd. McCain seems to have gotten an energy transfusion since last night. He sounded a lot more lively.

I think the GOP partisans will let McCain say anything he wants about them as long as he wins the election.

I was listening on XM - no speeches from the Dems in the time period I was listening (lunch hour)or I would report on them too.

: That energy transfusion (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by shoephone on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:22:32 PM EST

was all coming from hostitlity. This Republican ticket is the most negative, angry ticket I can remember. I seem to recall that both Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton put on the positive attitudes in their first campaigns -- at least the voters thought they were positive. The GOP talking point for so many years has been that Democrats are negative, down on America, etc. Well, this year's Republican ticket turns all that on its head. I don't think voters will be attracted to the viciousness that was displayed this week at the GOP convention.

well (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:27:15 PM EST

For what its worth my wife's conservative ex-husband is in for Obabma. He hated McCain too long and hard to change now. Its not all love and roses for that man.

People seem to be really invovled this year (none / 0) (#1)
by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:38:00 PM EST

Obama has terrific ratings for his speech with 38 million, Palin had 37 million, and now McCain even beat Obama's ratings.

The involvement is great...no one can (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:40:57 PM EST

say they didn't know what was happening.


Wow. I'm not sure that's a good thing for (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:42:46 PM EST

McCain though. :)

As far as the Slate article, I saw Maddow going on about her church and the Jews for Jesus sermon. I can't believe that any Obama supporter would want to open up the church comparisons.


: Time will tell if it hurts him.... (none / 0) (#6)
by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:45:14 PM EST

Cool. But ODS victims need not to read (none / 0) (#14)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:57:27 PM EST

too much into this. Two factors: PDS and the NFL kickoff game on NBC which led in to the McCain speech.


I watched that game (none / 0) (#20)
by BrianJ on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:12:00 PM EST

About all it led me into was a near-coma. That second half was some of the most lifeless football I've seen in a long time.


Jason Campbell (none / 0) (#26)
by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:15:59 PM EST

needs to learn how to throw the football.


Not all JC's fault... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:24:26 PM EST

...that "secondary" of the Skins is so bad, I think I could have ran routes and gotten open.

I did enjoy that little cornerback gets knocked over by the Giants running back.


Plus.... (none / 0) (#46)
by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:28:18 PM EST

poor Campbell has had to learn a new offense every year he's been in the league...that's no way to develop a QB. Blame Snyder for the Skins being in a constant state of flux.

Giants defense looks like they are picking up where they left off last year, Portis had nowhere to run.

Rec league football has arrived, opening day Sunday, and with a tropical storm supposed to hit tomm. its lookin like a mud bowl....sweet:) The only thing better than a mud bowl is a snow bowl.


So, do likely male voters (none / 0) (#48)
by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:37:21 PM EST

resent the fact Sarah Palin was TV sportscaster or is that battle done?


Huh? (none / 0) (#49)
by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:40:55 PM EST

Who said us males resented that?

Being a sportscaster doesn't make you a qualified VP candidate, but I don't think anyone is resentful that she was.


So, it was just women reporters on (none / 0) (#52)
by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:45:39 PM EST

the sidelines of football games and in the locker rooms? Am I THAT old?


: I think we're past that.... (none / 0) (#54)
by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:52:01 PM EST

for the most part. Its gotta be almost 20 years since that guy on the Patriots exposed himself to a female reporter in the locker room...that's the last battle I remember in that gender war.
And coaches seem to give whoever is sticking the mic in front of their face at halftime of the game a dirty look, regardless of gender.

Not me.... (none / 0) (#53)
by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:49:50 PM EST

I didn't even know there was a battle over that.


My boy Eli Manning (none / 0) (#32)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:24:39 PM EST

wasn't so great last night either, although he was solid.


That is worrisome. I didn't even bother (none / 0) (#42)
by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:59:18 PM EST

with McCain although I did watch Palin. I knew McCain was not going to offer anything but more discredited GOP ideology. It doesn't work, why bother. So who were all these people? I decided to see what was said this am and I was right. Nothing like BTD said he should say.


: Actually we have finally seen the (none / 0) (#65)
by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:47:08 PM EST

ideology in full swing in Bush II's presidency and it is definitley on the wane now. Ideas that are implemented as Ronald Reagan's were in 1980 to much fanfare did not come full force until GWB went to the extremes on them. The tax cuts and deregulation took years to work through the system. The unitary presidency is now evident. Pre-emptive war is another one. Most people don't identify the specifics but they see the results.

OldCity is depressed... (none / 0) (#16)
by OldCity on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:01:07 PM EST

because it appears that, yet again, the Republicans are going to control the message.

Incomprehensible as it may seem, Palin is going to be inconsistently portrayed as a "strong" woman and also one of whom it's unfair to question. And the public is gonna buy it.

did you hear the song (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by txpolitico67 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:06:12 PM EST

that they introduced Palin with?

"I am woman here me roar, in numbers to big too ignore."

On Yahoo's homepage right now there's a Rasmussen poll showing Palin is more popular than McCain AND Obama.

BTD used to say that Obama would win because of his media darling status. Obama's campaign is trying to push back Palin's "insurgent outta nowhere angle" because that's how HE'S been successful.

Wow, good to know that instead of fighting about issues they are jockeying to see who can get more face time on Fox or MSNBC.


Problem with Obama as media darling (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:13:06 PM EST

IMO is that it is the phenomenon of Obama that the media was in love with, not so much he himself. He is not a particularly warm media personality. With Palin they get a phenomenom and a personality. BTD could not have predicted this though, so his theory was good while it lasted.


That's why I prefer to pay more (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:22:50 PM EST

attention to Ras- his polls are clearly biased against Dems. Every poll he has is nearly always closer than the majority of the other polls. If Ras says the Dems are in the lead, then I KNOW the Dems are in the lead. The other polls showing Obama ahead I take in stride or with a grain of salt.


: Ditto that. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by shoephone on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:27:05 PM EST

Did they introduce Palin to (none / 0) (#28)
by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:19:49 PM EST

that sone today?


Character vs Issues (none / 0) (#18)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:06:42 PM EST

is what the Republicans are going for. Same as it ever was. The depressing part is how they define good character, and how the public has always gone along with it in the past. I hope this year is different.


Seriously? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by Matt in Chicago on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:18:46 PM EST

Are you lamenting Character vs Issues because it has been co-opted from Obama?

It wouldn't have come to this, if our guy had transitioned away from simply lavishing in the adulation of his crowds and started to really lay out his platform and positions in a definitive manner.

I am mad because McCain has stolen Obama's pitch and, for the moment, is making it work for him.

Obama needs to stop working about the polls and the media and make his case in the most detailed manner he can. No the case to simply NOT vote for McCain, but give people solid REASONS to vote for him.

My opinion of course.


: I agree. Obama should be telling ME (5.00 / 3) (#40)
by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:56:25 PM EST

why I should vote for him in clear Democratic terms. He found the far-right more interesting than me I guess. Now he's sending Hillary out to do some vote getting. I know what Hillary would do in office for me, but Obama needs to come straight for me and tell me why I should vote for him and then walk the talk.
There are a lot of MEs out there {sigh}.

: I agree with you (none / 0) (#47)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:32:43 PM EST

I only lament that the Republicans will always try to change the subject from issues to character, and Dems have not been effective at either changing the subject back or makign their case on character. I think Dems have the better hand on both the arguments, if they only knew howe to communicate it better.

Question (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Matt in Chicago on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:25:06 PM EST

"The depressing part is how they define good character, and how the public has always gone along with it in the past. I hope this year is different."

If you really believe this, and I have no reason to doubt you, then isn't it logical to assume that if the majority of the public defines "good character" in a way you think is incorrect? That maybe you're out of step with people at large?

I say this not to pick on you, I promise, but I was thinking recently (after Palin's speech) that if we lose this election (the third Presidential election we should have won) that maybe it is a good time to listen to the public and question why they keep rejecting our political positions.

I am not ready to throw in the towel, but it has definitely got me thinking.


the issue of character is so weird, here... (none / 0) (#41)
by OldCity on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:59:03 PM EST

I mean, you have a guy who forwent huge earnings opportunity. He's been married to the same women for some time, and by all accounts, they're good parents.

Then you've got a guy who was eight to last in his class. He went to war, did a very honorable thing, then came home.

Upon arrriving home, he divorces his former swimsuit model wife after having an affair with an heiress. The heiress's father gives him a gig while he awaits his opportunity to run for office.

He repeatedly sacrifices his principles for his ambition, but then publicly castigates himself for doing so, and it thus lauded as honest.

Again, in this campaign, he has displayed the most ridiculous hypocrisy, far in excess of anything you can accuse Obama of, and is again getting away with it. Amazing.

And, before anyone gets into Jeremiah Wright, etc...they might want to read what the guy said in context. They also might want to consider what they hear in their own churches. I was raised Caltholic and I heard quite regularly about the necessity of supporting "pro-life" politicians...even thought the same guys also supported the death penalty. Or condemned homosexuality even though some of the priests themselves were gay. In short, what I'm driving at is that the vast majority of churchgoers go for what they need, not the entirety of what they're given...it's oddly convenient that so many have chosen not to acknowledge that fact. h


: Character schmaracter. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:41:21 PM EST

People are made up of various disparate pieces and most anyone can be made to look good or bad simply by cherry picking the right pieces.
Good father, faithful husband might impress if I was shopping for one, but it doesn't mean much if I'm looking for a national leader.
Consistency is key. Do they do what they say? Do they make some effort? Do they fight? Do they make the right enemies? (Friends are easy in politics - just wave money around.)

: A lot of it is that they just keep (none / 0) (#45)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:27:37 PM EST

saying they have good character, no matter what they do. The press lets them get away with it.
You don't see Dems brag about their character as explicitly. They'd be embarrasssed.

I do know what you mean (none / 0) (#44)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:24:43 PM EST

and I have been out of step. I spent most of this week with my sister who lives in Memphis, and is one of the few cross-voters I know personally - votes for some Dems and some Republicans. She is very smart, but has no college education, and is below median income. She is one of the people we should be listening to. Seeing things through her eyes this week was very interesting. She was very impressed with Palin's story and political style - I kept reminding her of Palin's position on the issues, and then she would pull back from the brink.

I think with her it comes down to the communication style of the politican. She responds to the ones that explain things clearly, without either dumbing it down or talking pretentiously - she sees through both of those. She didn't like Bush for the former, or Kerry for the latter. She liked Reagan, and loves Hillary. I remember in 2004, she agreed with Dems on most issues, but just did not like John Kerry. I don't know who she ended up voting for.

I think it is that ability to connect with voters that most of the recent Dem candidates have lacked. Republicnas try to make that a character issue - "he's arrogant" or other variations of "he's not like you", when it is mostly a communication issue.


I don't understand (none / 0) (#37)
by kredwyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:29:28 PM EST

why Sela was ruled out on Project Runway. Her outfit was pretty interesting...and you can tell she's trying to expand her designer voice.

Hmmm... not all is well inthe Alaska legislature (none / 0) (#56)
by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:06:39 PM EST

A ranking Republican state representative is calling for Anchorage Democratic Sen. Hollis French to step down as manager of the Legislature's "Troopergate" investigation.
Rep. John Coghill, R-North Pole, today released a letter criticizing statements French purportedly made in media interviews.
Coghill said French remarked that a forthcoming legislative investigation into Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of her former public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, is "likely to be damaging to the administration" and has twice suggested the governor faces potential impeachment.
"These statements cause me to think that the report is already written even though the investigation is only just begun and the most important witnesses have not even been interviewed," Coghill's letter says. "The investigation appears to be lacking in fairness, neutrality and due process."

Support the St Paul protesters (none / 0) (#59)
by Xclusionary Rule 4ever on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:18:11 PM EST

The coldsnap legal collective is assisting those arrested for conspiracy to riot in St Paul. Seven or eight young people were arrested under Minnesota's version of the Patriot Act and are being held as I type. You can make a donation via PayPal or credit card. Wish I was there to help.
Apparently the city received $10 million from the RNC to cover lawsuits for police misconduct ahead of the convention. Isn't that a void contract as against public policy?? Was I high that day in law school?

: To demand the release (none / 0) (#64)
by MyLeftMind on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:43:17 PM EST

of detained protestors and the dismissal of charges against peaceful protesters, contact the Mayor of Minneapolis, R.T. Rybak, by phone (612-673-2100) or email (c/o helen.simrill@ci.minneoplis.mnuf) and the Mayor of St. Paul, Chris Coleman (651-266-8510).

Sigh.... (none / 0) (#63)
by Fabian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:41:45 PM EST

CT-04: Republican Chris Shays Demeans Women

[from FP dKos]

Wow. I'm unimpressed with their sudden concern.

A day late and a dollar short.

If it weren't for the community diaries, I wouldn't bother. They've got a good series on the Hurricane of the Week.