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AP: McCain's Comparison of Palin and Obama Falls Short

The AP evaluates John McCain's claim that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is as experienced as Sen. Barack Obama and says it falls short.

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    Well (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by sas on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:30:52 PM EST
    that's the AP, right - Associated PRESS.  What else can you expect from the press - it is still in Obama's pocket.

    No way (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:34:41 PM EST
    The press has been WAY harder on Obama than McCain in this election.  Studies have been done to prove it.  The AP is even associated with McCain through affiliates.  

    Parent
    No one here wants to hear that. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:37:23 PM EST
    Wrong. Sorry (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:44:31 PM EST
    ONE study, and it was profoundly flawed.  Know what they surveyed?  The evening news half-hours on the three broadcast networks and -- wait for it -- Fox News's daily news hour "Special Report."

    Don't think I need to go any farther than that, but there's more.  Go find Somerby and look it up.  He took this study apart.

    Parent

    'Studies' have "proved" it huh? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Matt in Chicago on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:53:21 PM EST
    Since this is really an issue of perfection, I don't think you can prove or disprove this type of bias.

    The problem for Obama is that people, i.e., voters, believe that the press has a bias for him.

    Combine that with the fact that the Presidential candidate is quoted on Drudge as saying he as more experience than the Vice Presidential candidate.  By entering into that fray, he is essentially conceding that he has less experience than McCain.  Once again, he or his handlers are making unforced errors.

    What is next, and ad that 'proves' how much experience he has relative to the Vice Presidential candidate??  Just foolish.  

    Stop talking about experience (Obama has virtually none) and simply say that she is welcome addition to the campaign, qualified based on her experience as Governor of Alaska, but wrong on the issues...

    Otherwise he is going to wind up looking like he is wrong for second place!

    Parent

    the AP writes a pro Obama piece (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:33:02 PM EST
    stop the presses

    There are Republicans behind (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:38:59 PM EST
    this anti-Palin frenzy.

    That's my take at this point.  There are far too many stories and too many usually conservative-friendly reporters running with them.

    I watched the Wallace interview on Sunday and he was unusually persistent about pressing the Palin issue with McCain.

    Parent

    I don't go with the theory (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by stefystef on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:53:43 PM EST
    because the Republicans didn't want Romney (no Mormons) nor Liebermann (for obvious reasons).

    Pawlenty perhaps, but that's too dull.
    Jindal???  You are kidding, right?
    Crist?  Too tanned for the center and right.
    Guliani???  Oh, surely you jest.

    Anyone picked by McCain was going to get scrutinized.  The MSM is in love with Obama and more important, it is the MSM who wants to determine who wins this election.  It is the MSM who want to be the Kingmaker, so they can control the story.

    The Republicans are toying with people right now... but in November, they will fall together.  You can count on that.

    Parent

    I started my career in PR... (none / 0) (#34)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:58:55 PM EST
    Based on my experience, this assault is extremely organized and frankly Democrats have proven time after time that they are not capable of this sort of systematic attack on another politician.  It looks extremely coordinated to me.

    And just so you know AP is generally biased against all Democrats - not just Obama - and they were extremely supportive of GWB for years.  It is very surprising to see them take Obama's or any other Democrat's side on any issue.

    Parent

    "Democrats have proven time after time" (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:03:04 PM EST
    I seem to remember a pretty effective  hatchet job on the Clintons.

    Parent
    Are You Sure The Hachtes Were Wielded by Dems? (none / 0) (#77)
    by flashman on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:21:51 PM EST
    I'm not.

    Parent
    Im sure you are not (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:23:33 PM EST
    sorry (none / 0) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:25:53 PM EST
    I misread your tag and misidentified you.
    and no I am not sure there was not some republicans in there who did not want to run against HIllary.


    Parent
    Guess I'm Still (3.00 / 0) (#93)
    by flashman on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:30:21 PM EST
    feeling a little burned.  Although some of the more visible hachet men had a (D) by their names, I believe the people pushing the smears were not good Democrats.

    Parent
    I think the GOP was heavily (none / 0) (#86)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:26:22 PM EST
    involved in the mudslinging against the Clintons.

    I have long thought that they decided that Obama would be far easier to beat than Clinton and that a lot of the left Obama-struck bloggers were played like pawns in that whole thing.  Which may be happening now too as you point out.  But I do still think it is possible that we are seeing an insurrection attempt from within the GOP to replace Palin with someone they think would be more effective and perhaps even more of a "loyalist".

    Parent

    knowing what I know about McCain (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:31:51 PM EST
    I would say good luck to them

    Parent
    Where are we seeing this attempted (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:33:59 PM EST
    insurection? I see no evidence of that. What I see is a party circling the wagons. Democrats...we better get ready for tomorrow.

    I have been saying since May that I thought Palin would be the pick, when I first heard from a friend that Culvahouse was in Alaska. Tomorrow I have a feeling we are going to see why she was the pick.

    Parent

    I remember that you have (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:37:22 PM EST
    kudos for that.  
    I never thought she had a chance.
    I really thought McCain would go the another way.
    that is, pick a pro-choice man like Ridge to get some of the same results.
    that is probably why McCain is most likely going to be president and I am working by the hour.


    Parent
    LMAO My gut sure ain't (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:41:33 PM EST
    making me any money. What it is making me is sick. If I can see that Palin was an obvious shortlister and I live far outside the beltway (FLorida voter in Victoria, BC.)why is it that people who make their living bloggng politics couldn't see it?

    Or better yet, why did the people who have all these blogs, and their commentors, keep blowing it off when I mentioned her time and time again?

    I guess hindsight is 20/20. I can't tell you the number of times I and others have been told, "Oh he'll never pick her." on this blog and others.

    Parent

    I dont think I ever said that (none / 0) (#121)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:47:35 PM EST
    but I may have thought it.
    you have to admit it is "bold" beyond belief.


    Parent
    I actually said he'd pick her ... (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:15:42 PM EST
    months ago.  Not sure if I posted it here.  But I sent emails on it to a bunch of my friends.  (So I have a record.) They all thought I was insane.  Now they don't.

    I wasn't as psychic on the Dem side.  I predicted he'd pick Bayh.  Wrong. But a fairly savvy pick back in June.  He really wasn't in the first tier at that time.  And all accounts suggest he came very close to being chosen.

    Personally, I think without the events in Georgia, he would have been tapped.

    Parent

    Bold...totally (none / 0) (#141)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:09:03 PM EST
    And I know you never said that. LOL

    Many did though...many.

    Parent

    exactly (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:44:02 PM EST
    hellloooooooo

    its what the want people!!!!

    Parent

    What do you think their motivation is? (none / 0) (#19)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:49:10 PM EST
    To bait the Democrats?

    That is possible.

    OTOH, I also think it is also possible that there is a faction of the Republican Party that is unhappy with this pick.

    Remeber what the GOP did to John McCain himself in 2000.

    Parent

    I think it is 100% to bait democrats (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:58:07 PM EST
    however much they hate McCain they do not want president Obama.


    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Brillo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:47:19 PM EST
    Because most of those who aren't firmly in the fundamentalist camp understand that she's grossly unqualified to be president should anything happen to McCain.  

    Did you see Scarborough and Buchanan's reactions?  And the stuff they said just before the pick was announced?  They were totally bashing the idea that McCain might pick her as ludicous.  Now, they've certainly come around and started spouting the standard talking points about why she's OK now, but it's really clear that a much of the Republican party understands this was a bad bad pick.  

    I don't buy the idea that this is all some vast conspiracy to bait the Democrats into attacking her.  She's being attacked all over the place by the media, not us.  And it's by media from all over the spectrum.  

    Parent

    I am more inclined to believe that (none / 0) (#23)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:53:38 PM EST
    this stuff is coming from a disaffected faction of the GOP.  Democrats just aren't this good at running a slime machine and they certainly don't have the organization or the loyalists in the media that the Republicans do to launch such an intense and systematic attack.

    Parent
    I would be happy if (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:00:17 PM EST
    I could believe that, but I don't.

    Sarah Palin is, except for her youth, pretty much the ultimate GOP template.  She's everything the right wing has excoriated McCain for not being.

    Parent

    totally disagree (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Josey on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:03:11 PM EST
    Obama is a cash cow for the media and the deplorable comments and rants by media pundits over Palin suggests they were prepared to defend THE ONE against Romney, Pawlenty, etc. - but not Palin.
    The media's Obama worship has only increased since Palin was announced.

    Parent
    I love your moniker (1.00 / 0) (#182)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:46:55 PM EST
    AP has been playing up Obama (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by stefystef on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:42:03 PM EST
    from the beginning.  What "negative"  coverage has Obama gotten from the MSM?  None I've read.  Anytime someone has questioned him, they have been labeled a "racist" so they would back off.

    Parent
    Patently False. (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:53:16 PM EST
    http://people-press.org/report/407/

    And I can't find the PEW study that identified that this summer, 78% of press coverage was false, but its out there if someone else can drum it up.

    Parent

    Seriously? (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by nalo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:06:06 PM EST
    How do you make this up?

    The AP? run by Ron Fournier, a right-wing McCain shill that has been running consistently negative coverage on Obama throughout this election?

    Here, try memorizing their talking points before defending them.  Their not too convincing:

    The blogs and political organizations have made much of an email from Ron to Karl Rove that surfaced soon after Ron was named acting bureau chief, and which involved the death of Pat Tillman. The email exchange between Ron and Rove occurred in 2004, while Ron was a correspondent for AP -- long before he was named bureau chief. Ron has widely publicly said that the tone of the email was unfortunate, but that the contact with Rove was in the pursuit of a story. Ron has written both columns and articles that are critical of Rove. Here's what Ron said publicly about the email: "I was an AP political reporter at the time of the 2004 e-mail exchange, and was interacting with a source, a top aide to the president, in the course of following an important and compelling story. I regret the breezy nature of the correspondence."



    Parent
    Not only Fournier ... (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by eustiscg on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:30:14 PM EST
    ... how about Babington's lengthy "analysis" of Obama's convention speech that went up only twenty-six minutes after the speech ended and claimed there were no specifics in the speech ...

    Meanwhile, ANOTHER AP reporter (Jim Drinkard, the same guy who wrote the article blogged here) wrote a column of total concern-trollery LISTING the specifics in a neutral-to-approving tone and then tearing them all down.

    But yeah.  You're totally right.  AP is soooo in Obama's pocket.

    Parent

    AP: Remember the Infamous (none / 0) (#154)
    by daring grace on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:20:52 PM EST
    Nedra Pickler?

    Love that name! It's like a fairy tale character.

    Parent

    ROFLOL!! (5.00 / 0) (#206)
    by Andy08 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:36:54 PM EST
    Well, since Obama is running for the TOP job and given Biden has as much a chance to die as McCain
    (Biden had an excellent prognosis; but aneurysms are serious) I guess the AP saying Obama has an edge on the experience department against VP Palin should be reassuring... shouldn't it?

    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#4)
    by nalo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:36:24 PM EST
    You don't konw about Ron Fournier?  I thought I was replying to you about it earlier today?

    Parent
    sorry missed it (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:37:01 PM EST
    working.  will look.

    Parent
    Ron Fournier (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by nalo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:56:05 PM EST
    is a right wing hack who encouraged Bush's political exploitation of Pat Tillman (a free-thinking soldier who opposed the war in Iraq) in an email exchange with Karl Rove, telling Rove:

    "The Lord creates men and women like this all over the world. But only the great and free countries allow them to flourish. Keep up the fight."

    Fournier in 2006 interviewed seriously (multiple times) for a job with the McCain campaign and turned it down.  He is now the Washington bureau chief of the AP and has penned such hit pieces on Obama and famously bought donuts for a McCain speech...the kind he likes, with sprinkles.  

    AP coverage for Obama has so far been consistently negative.  Recently, McCain has limited his press availability greatly to a scripted 30 min. a day (previously he was famous for his straight talk rants, and the press protected him).  

    In the past few weeks, the Sprinkled Donut media seems to be upset that McCain kept them out of the loop on the VP pick, and are turning on him like jackals.  Unlike other Republicans who love to work the refs on the "liberal media", the national traditional press has always been McCain's base of political power.  

    Parent

    So AP are pro Obama? (none / 0) (#67)
    by JoeA on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:16:15 PM EST
    Someone tell Ron Fournier . . . quick!

    Parent
    ROFLOL!! (none / 0) (#205)
    by Andy08 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:33:09 PM EST
    Well, since Obama is runing for the TOP job and
    Biden has as much a chance to die as McCain has
    I guess the AP saying Obama has an edge on the experience department against VP Palin should be reassuring... shouldn't it?

    Parent
    That article is about the most pathetic (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by frankly0 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:46:54 PM EST
    commentary I have seen yet from the established media on Palin -- and that is saying something.

    Really, one of its major "pushbacks" is that McCain said that Palin was in elective office while Obama was simply a "community organizer", and that was false.

    And what turns out to be the truth? Read it and laugh:

    When Palin was first elected to the town council in Wasilla, Alaska, in the fall of 1992, Obama was wrapping up work in Chicago on a voter-registration drive. When that job ended, he joined a Chicago law firm and became a lecturer at the University of Chicago law school, and the Chicago Tribune picked him as one of "25 Chicagoans on the road to making a difference."

    Obama wasn't a community organizer -- he was working in a law firm and lecturing at a law school! So much more impressive and relevant than being a community organizer!

    The article is a joke. It gets no better than this.

    Obama as community leader? (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by stefystef on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:57:34 PM EST
    I know people like to promote this about him, but you know what?  My mom, as a church woman who is involved with many community functions, could be called a "community organizer".  You know what?  She ain't.

    Hell, I've done voter registration drives since college back in the 80s.  And if someone was promoting me to the newspapers, I guess I'd get nice titles too.

    It's all hype, it's all a game.  And while people on the blogs think they have a finger on the pulse of the country, the last few elections have been quite the surprise for everyone.

    Parent

    Well, actually... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:19:34 PM EST
    Being a community organizer IS different from being "involved with many community functions" or doing voter registration -- two things I've also had a fair amount of experience in. I tried getting a job as a community organizer with a group here in Seattle this last year and it is far more involved than either of those other things, especially depending on what the issue is.

    Jes' sayin'.

    Parent

    more importantly (5.00 / 0) (#223)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:38:11 PM EST
    tell me what he accomplished while he worked as a community organizer. Because everything I have read said the community ws no better off when he left the job that when he started. Of course the cynical view says he became a community organizer to become better known on the community so he could run for state office. Same reason for joining the church filled with local movers and shakers.

    Parent
    No, (none / 0) (#27)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:55:21 PM EST
    what's a joke is McCain's statement.  It isn't true.  And what is more formative for leading our country (and defending our constitution), teaching law at a prestigious school or being mayor of a town of 6,000?  You know the answer.  Obama's education is just one more piece of what makes him far more qualified to be in the White House.

    Parent
    Oh yes, I'm sure most (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by frankly0 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:02:16 PM EST
    people will believe that what really qualifies someone for President is being a very part time academic who teaches a single course on Constitutional Law, and being someone whose major full time job is working for a law firm. What's far less important, I gather, is interaction with voters, and representing their interests, and making decisions and dealing with the consequences. Because what could any of that have to do with being President?

    Parent
    You are so dishonest... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:11:48 PM EST
    Of course that isn't the only thing Obama brings to the table.  In fact, just what you are talking about - working with people on REAL issues - is just what a community organizer (as much as you like to dismiss that experience) does.  

    Your intellectual dishonesty is betrayed in that you take each piece of Obama's experience and treat it seperately from the rest.  Obama has worked hands on in poor neighborhoods, interpretted and taught constitutional law, represented hundreds of thousands of voters in the IL state senate, represented millions of voters in the US senate and been involved in one of the best organized campaigns in my lifetime.  

    Sarah Palin has been the mayor of a very small town with few economic issues, she has been on a couple state-level committees, and she has been the Governor of Alaska.  She has more executive experience in the named sense of the word than McCain or Obama.  But so has anyone who has run a business.  

    So of course the KIND of executive experience becomes important and we must take into account the scale of Alaskan state politics.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#64)
    by nalo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:14:55 PM EST
    teaching the constitution at the Univ of Chicago is a relevant experience for a public official.  Contrast that with Palin who thinks the founding father wrote the Pledge of Allegiance..., wow, the chasm of knowledge looks huge.  We'll know more when she gives more interviews and answers debate questions.

    Parent
    Let's not forget that (none / 0) (#151)
    by litigatormom on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:18:32 PM EST
    Palin supports teaching creationism in the public schools and tried to ban library books she found offensive when she was Mayor of bustling Wasilla, AK.

    On the other hand, as several Republican talking points spouters have said, as commander-in-chief of the Alaska National Guard she is on the front lines of our nation's defense against a Russian fleet crossing the Bering Strait.

    Parent

    As a lawyers... being a mayor is WAY more (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Matt in Chicago on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:07:09 PM EST
    important.... you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a lawyer.

    Parent
    How about... (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:13:22 PM EST
    a Harvard educated lawyer who teaches constitutional law at a well respected university?

    What does seem to be true here is that you can't swing a dead cat in this thread with out hitting a McCain talking point spouted off by a supposed Democrat.

    Parent

    The Harvard degree means nothing (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:24:33 PM EST
    in real terms: preparation for the presidency. I've known lots of people who have Ivy League degrees and honestly, it doesn't indicate what you presume it does.

    Apparently, that law degree didn't prevent Obama from voting for the unconstitutional FISA bill.

    Parent

    Finishing at the top of your class (none / 0) (#117)
    by nalo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:45:30 PM EST
    means a lot whether it's at a community college or Harvard.  I haven't found out Palin's grades at Univ. of Idaho yet, but I do know McCain's are downright awful (894 of 899 at the Naval academy).

    Parent
    I'd be a lot more impressed (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by otherlisa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:55:18 PM EST
    by Obama's background in constitutional law if he'd voted against FISA.

    And Prose, if you call me a McCain supporter, I will reach through these internets and throttle you. One of the things that has plssed me off the most about the Obama "movement" is having a bunch of Democrat come latelies question others' long-held Democratic credentials because they dare to criticize Obama.

    I'm trying to talk myself into supporting him. I really am. But I have no illusions about what I'm getting.

    Parent

    Good for you, OtherLisa (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:03:09 PM EST
    I'm damn*d sick of their thin-skins myself.

    Parent
    Thank you! (none / 0) (#220)
    by Bluesage on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:33:22 PM EST
    As a registered, active, voting Democrat for 40 years I've been called a McCain supporter countless times and even told I'm a relic that the Democrats no longer need.  We'll see about that in Nov.

    Parent
    what federal legislation has she passed? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:17:58 PM EST
    What senate committees has she served on? What is her foreign policy experience?

    While Obama's been in the Senate only 3 years, his national experience is greater than her's, which is zero.

    Parent

    Ask most Americans what federal legislation he (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by Matt in Chicago on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:23:34 PM EST
    has passed.... Do they really know?

    We're political junkies, but does the rest of America really look at this stuff the same way that we do?  

    I really don't think so, and that is what has me scared.

    Parent

    this is exactly right (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:29:09 PM EST
    not only will they mostly think that being a governor will give her more relevant experience than him, Im not even sure the whole experience thing is going to hold much water.
    after all, Obama has been saying for months it not experience but judgment.
    Palin showed some pretty good judgment in taking on the corrupt republican establishment and beating them like a rented mule.

    Parent
    Do you really want to go down (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:26:22 PM EST
    that road?  To the Senate subcommittee he was too busy to pay attention to?  To foreing policy experience that is not much more than the tea parties he made fun of Clinton over?  What is his national experience?  Traveling around the country?

    What federal legislation has Obama passed, all by his lonesome?  What legislation should he not have voted for?  Which should he have voted against?

    Come on, Jeralyn, this is just crazy - hammer her on her ideology and how that could translate to policy, but stop digging yourself into a hole on the "experience" issue - it's a loser.

    Parent

    Considering that John McCain... (none / 0) (#127)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:55:05 PM EST
    ...was #1 for missing Senate votes (by a wide margin) last session and in 25 years in the Senate has not passed any landmark legislation of his own, it is not at all "crazy".  

    Parent
    No landmark legislation?!? (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:10:06 PM EST
    McCain-Feingold?

    Parent
    Is there some part of... (none / 0) (#221)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:35:45 PM EST
    ..."on his own" that confounds you?

    Parent
    Very misleading... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by ks on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:32:59 PM EST
    Obama's been in the Seante for 3 years but has been running for POTUS a good deal of that time and the "national experience" spin is just a disingenuous parsing of experience.  You can call is "what experience really means".  It reminds me of the W.O.R.M. stuff.

    Parent
    How much Actual Time does Obama Have (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Saul on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:58:09 PM EST
    on the Senate committee?  You really cannot count the last two years of Obama since he was hardly there.  So in hours how much foreign experience does Obama really have.

    Deciding on what will go in a piece of legislation and then forwarding that to the executive who makes the final decision is different.  As a governor he or she has to make the final decision and to me that carries more weight than deciding on the final draft of a piece of legislation that is co author by all the members of congress.  The governor is all by him self or herself.  To me one year as a governor equal 3 years as a Senator.

    Parent

    Not defending Palin, Jeralyn, but... (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Ardeth on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:16:28 PM EST
    this comparison seems to me to be a non-starter.  She's a state governor, as many former presidential candidates have been (um, Bill Clinton?).  Not having sat on Senate committee does not disqualify her (although many other things about her resume do).

    I don't think our party gains anything by falling into the trap of comparing her experience to Obama's.  All it does is remind people that of Obama's own weakness in this area.  This is, after all, one of the main reasons why many of us preferred Hillary to Obama in the first place.

    Let's get back to focusing on vital issues like the economy, healthcare, the war, the environment, human rights, crime, education, judicial appointments, etc.

    If Palin's so wretchedly inexperienced, she'll hang herself without our help.

    Parent

    experience than Obama. And Palin, of course.

    Parent
    I believe that Senator Clinton said (none / 0) (#217)
    by kgb on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:16:26 PM EST
    I believe that Senator Clinton said it best during the primary:

    "I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech that he gave in 2002."

    Congratulations Senator Clinton on your historic run for the Presidency. You have cracked the glass ceiling and if we're lucky John McCain's VP will finish the job for you.

    Parent

    Today, Rush Limbaugh (none / 0) (#225)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:46:13 PM EST
    called Gov. Palin a woman whose political career was not based on a man's political success (referring to Hillary Clinton as First Lady, Governor's wife, etc.)  Not really true, given the influence Ted Stevens may have had on Palin's rise to power.  But still, . . .

    Parent
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#222)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:38:03 PM EST
    because who needs to understand the constitution?  Completely unnecessary when defending it.

    Parent
    Sure didn't help him with his FISA vote (none / 0) (#224)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:41:15 PM EST
    The article compares a P to a VP ... (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:54:32 PM EST
    candidate.

    It allows the Republicans to say something like:

    "You may be right.  Senator Obama is equally qualified to run as Vice President.  But he's running for President."

    Oops.

    Articles like this don't help Obama at all.

    Check the Constitution (none / 0) (#45)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:04:00 PM EST
    The VP becomes president if the president dies.  Therefore the VP must meet the minimum qualifications to be president.

    Parent
    Shouldn't the President also (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Grace on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:36:58 PM EST
    be able to meet the minimum qualifications?  

    I think that's what we have here:  Two people who meet the minimum qualifications.  

    Seriously, Palin's experience is almost the same as Spiro Agnew's (who was on a County board of some sort for 4 years and then Governor of Maryland for 2 years) before he was elected VP.  

    Parent

    Palin may not need to be ready (none / 0) (#156)
    by litigatormom on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:23:57 PM EST
    on Day 1, but given McCain's age and medical history, she may very well need to be ready by Day 2.  Or Day 30 -- which is exactly how long President William Henry Harrison served as president, leading to the ascension of Vice President John Tyler to the presidency.

    Parent
    Sounds like Hillary Clinton's reminder about RFK (1.00 / 2) (#219)
    by kgb on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:32:40 PM EST
    assassination... And she was right... Media freaked out...
    Now, If B. H. Obama is out then drunkard J. Biden with all his experience will take over? And this is scary...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmRXH7RkCZQ

    Parent
    if McCain dies on any day (none / 0) (#227)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:49:17 PM EST
    and Palin becomes President, she gets to have a VP. She can just select Biden and automatically become just as qualified as Obama. Problem solved. Why does everyone keep assuming if McCain dies, Palinwill be in office by herself?

    Parent
    Palin isn't on the top of the ticket. (5.00 / 6) (#70)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:17:38 PM EST
    Why do people insist on treating her as if she was?

    What matters is what these people stand for.  If Mike Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, or Mitt Romney, former governor and CEO, was the VP nominee, you wouldn't be arguing experience, you'd be arguing ideology and agenda - so why not argue it for Palin?

    If someone is wrong on the issues you care about, their experience is irrelevant, isn't it?  Palin wouldn't be more acceptable to you if she were governor of California, so why keep making the experience argument?  It doesn't help.

    The longer Palin is treated and discussed (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:22:09 PM EST
    as if she and Obama were running for the same office the worse it ets for Obama.

    And do not site the new polls and tell me he is 'surging', he's not. It's a convention bounce and will be gone soon. everyone knows that.

    Parent

    I understand the Biden pick... (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:18:46 PM EST
    ...but I still chuckle every time Biden is mentioned as having "gravitas." Sam Nunn has gravitas, Chuck Hagel has gravitas--but Biden's kind of a walking id, bless his heart.

    I think if you actually have to analyze it (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:30:09 PM EST
    The AP evaluates John McCain's claim that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is as experienced as Sen. Barack Obama and says it falls short.
    in order to make a determination, well, the point has already been made.

    EXACTLY (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:31:13 PM EST
    Ding! Ding! (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by ks on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:43:11 PM EST
    Finally!  The mere examination by the AP keeps the issue in play.  It is ASTOUNDING that some Dems think that comparing the TOP of the Dem ticket to the BOTTOM of the GOP ticket helps Obama in any way shape or form.  

    Parent
    again (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:30:43 PM EST
    I think it will be appealing to many that she didnt go to Yale or Harvard or Oxford.

    Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#108)
    by nalo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:41:28 PM EST
    Oxford, Yale really dragged Bill Clinton down.  

    On the other hand Univ. of Idaho's most prominent graduates are Mark Felt (Deep Throat) and Larry Craig.

    Parent

    Sorry, but that's lame. (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:59:10 PM EST
    GW Bush went to Harvard and Yale and I think we all know well how that turned out.

    Anyway, I have a friend who did her fine arts program at U of I and happens to be a great artist. Maybe you should visit Idaho some time and take in the beauty instead of denigrating anyone who didn't graduate from the Ivy League.

    Caution: Your elitism is showing.

    Parent

    "Your elitism is showing" (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:06:34 PM EST
    honestly
    do people really think that people out "there" stop and think "lets see, did this one go to Harvard?  certainly better than that one who went to a state university."

    do you suppose that is what they think?


    Parent

    Lord Almighty (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by suki on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:28:13 PM EST
    Capt, the more of these type of comments I read, the larger my sense of doom grows.
    And I used to think 'the Dems snatching defeat from the jaws of victory' was kinda harsh.
    Hah!

    Parent
    It is not just going to an Ivy League institution (none / 0) (#161)
    by NWC80 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:26:40 PM EST
    It is what you do while there and then what you choose to do afterwards that matters.

    Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are outstanding examples of those that aren't born on third base, yet managed with their hard work and intellect to not only get into, but also shine while at Ivy League schools. It certainly set them in good stead to pursue careers as fine public servants.

    That is NOT elitism, far from it.

    Parent

    Are we really arguing (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by aquarian on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:05:33 PM EST
    over what college people went to and what their grades were?  Bush went to Yale, Clinton went to Yale, and Gore went to Harvard.  And yet a world of differences.  I am sure the differences have very little to do with the institution from which they got their degree.  We could argue over their grades but apparently the voting public was perfectly happy to elect Bush over Gore.

    Demeaning people from state universities does not sit well with me at all.


    Parent

    What college did Joe Biden go to? (none / 0) (#168)
    by Exeter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:32:07 PM EST
    The Significance of the University of Delaware (none / 0) (#176)
    by daring grace on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:41:52 PM EST
    Biden's colleges:

    BA University of Delaware, Newark.

    JD Syracuse University.

    Funny thing, both David Plouffe of the Obama campaign and Steve Schmidt of McCain's are U/Del alumni--I think Schmidt actually graduated but Plouffe maybe did not.

    Parent

    I went to a music school (none / 0) (#209)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:44:24 PM EST
    that is famous for all the people who went there but never graduated -- mostly because they got gigs and got real life experience playing.

    It will be nice when we can stop judging people's abilities by the name of their alma maters.

    Parent

    They can't (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:30:53 PM EST
    And by 'they' I mean the people who continue to harp on Palin. They are losing their minds and having a hissy fit that McCain dare do what Obama was scared whitless to do.

    Now they have to deal with the fallout. I have a feeling that by the time tomorrow night is over Sarah Palin will be the poster child for suburban moms everywhere as well as someone many women look up to and want to stand behind.

    All of this constant vitriol is doing nothing but helping McCain.

    But Palin isn't running for President (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by goldberry on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:32:28 PM EST
    Biden and McCain are the seniors.  If anything, Obama should be running as vice president.  At least McCain put the ticket in its natural order.  
    Think about it: if Obama didn't have an experience issue, there would be no need for a Biden.  McCain doesn't have the same issue that's why he can pick Palin.  Palin's experience is executive.  Obama's is legislative and he's never run anything.  
    Really, this is a ridiculous argument to be having.  It's the top of the ticket that people vote for and when you compare McCain and Obama, the "apples to apples" comparison, Obama is a yearling.  
    Jeez, the AP must think we're stupid.  

    jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:51:33 PM EST
    I appreciate the effort you are making to keep it civil and respectful.
    I dont really understand some of the deletes but I salute you for trying.
    you know what, I think your job is going to get harder and harder as we get closer to D day.
    or would that be E day.

    Let's all have a martini and relaaax (none / 0) (#129)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:55:22 PM EST
    Oh, I just remembered, Jeralyn is a G&T gal.

    Parent
    From a journalistic standpoint (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by Grace on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:56:26 PM EST
    Is this AP article an opinion piece?  It doesn't attribute one thing about Obama to a source.  

    It has direct quotes from the McCain side but doesn't attribute the Obama side to anything -- other than the reporter that wrote it, I guess.  

    It doesn't mention the facts came out of a book, press releases, nothing.  Did the reporter make up the facts?  Since these are not "common knowledge" he should be providing attribution.  

    This is really sloppy journalism.    

    These are arguments that please partisans (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by esmense on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:14:21 PM EST
    but don't change any minds. Objectively, how does saying that Obama was "wrapping up" work on a voter registration drive when Palin was first elected to office refute McCain's statement that he was still doing community organizing when she was elected to office? (Especially when his work on the registration drive has often been cited as an example of his "community organizing?) In both cases, McCain's and the "reporter's," the arguments are specious and absurdly nit picky.

    And the long defense of the "present" vote -- give it a rest. Dumb argument meets dumb defense.

    These are not the kind of "issues" on which this campaign will be won or lost -- they are just the kind of nitpicky nonsense (and pointless "gotchas") that makes politicians and their journalistic supporters look unserious and out of touch.

    I disagree... (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by Exeter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:19:06 PM EST
    I just read that piece and they basically quibbled over what Obama and Palin were doing in and around 85-88.  

    Obama's work as a field operative and in the Illinois state senate is comparable to Palin's local goverment work on city council and work as mayor and member of hospital board.

    Palin's election as a governor and short service is comparable to Obama's short service in the U.S. Senate.

    The tiebreaker for me is that Palin made a name for herself by going against her own party as Alaska's ethics czar and then became a local legend by knocking out two political heavyweights to win the governerorship.  Obama has never done anything of note or beaten anyone of note.

     

    he has certainly (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:26:55 PM EST
    never challenged his own party.

    Parent
    He beat Hillary. (none / 0) (#165)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:29:38 PM EST
    honestly (5.00 / 4) (#169)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:33:01 PM EST
    I think that may end up being his biggest problem.
    the way he accomplished his one big accomplishment.
    top quote the brilliant Anglachel:

    My grim opinion is that the window of opportunity to repair this rift has passed. The party is now stuck with a divided and angry base. The party must be under no illusion about why this has happened: The DNC and the Obama campaign denigrated and dismissed the preferred candidate of more than half the party, using misogyny and false accusations of racism and giving the CDS-afflicted media carte blanche to act out its worst impulses. When the candidate refused to be intimidated out of the race, the smears were aimed at her supporters. These smears continue to this day. These two lines of attack, one aimed at the voters, the other attributed to them, have inflicted damage that the Obamacan faction will not take responsibility for, let alone move to fix.

    Parent

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Exeter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:36:13 PM EST
    good point, although, he didn't win the popular vote

    Parent
    True, dat. (none / 0) (#177)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:42:26 PM EST
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by janarchy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:30:02 PM EST
    I'm so glad that Obama's running against Sarah Palin...oh, you mean he's not?

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:36:22 PM EST
    When will they get it...

    Parent
    I don't get... (none / 0) (#5)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:36:42 PM EST
    why Obama and Co. keep talking about the mayoral experience rather than Governor experience.

    There is no doubt that Obama is more experienced.  There is no doubt that the McCain's camps cries that the Obama camp is being sexist are cynical calculated comments designed to stir up primary tension.  There is no doubt that McCain, after criticizing Obama on experience, should have never nominated Palin.

    BUT, Obama should still what how he handles this.  McCain and Co. have made it obvious that they are dying to cry "sexism!"  

    More experienced how? (5.00 / 9) (#20)
    by stefystef on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:49:25 PM EST
    I still don't see how Obama, who is senator for only 3 years and 2 of them running for President qualifies as "experienced" against a woman with mayoral and gubernatorial experience?

    I'm not defending Palin, but I'm not trying to knock her down either.  She was elected to the top political position in her state... not too many people on this board can say the same thing.  Obama has never managed an organization nor a municipality.  He has joined certain church organizations and community organizations for political gains, not personal satisfaction.  He is a well-honed, well-crafted "modern" politician.  

    If she was a man with the same situation, I do not believe we would have the same air of "scandal" we are seeing today.  Beware Democrats, sometimes too many attack brings sympathy and support.

    Parent

    You've got to be kidding... (3.66 / 3) (#38)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:01:30 PM EST
    if Palin were a man she'd be TORN APART.  Obama has had to fight this meme for the whole election and his resume far overshadows hers.  A woman even made this argument against Obama.  It is not the LEAST bit sexist.

    Several of you commenters are VERY troubling in the degree to which you parrot the latest McCain talking point.

    Parent

    Disagree (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by fafnir on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:21:35 PM EST
    One guy who wasn't being torn apart for consideration (and probably would not have been torn apart had he been chosen) was Virginia Governor Tim Kaine.

    In terms of public office experience, there's not much difference between Kaine and Palin In terms of public office experience:

    Kaine:

    • Four years on the Richmond City Council
    • Two years as Mayor of Richmond
    • Four years Lt. Governor under Governor Mark Warner
    • Virginia governor for almost three years.

    Palin:
    • Four years on Wasilla City Council
    • Six years as Mayor of Wasilla
    • Chairperson of Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (1 year)
    • Alaska governor for almost two years.


    Parent
    Red Herring no. 403b (none / 0) (#226)
    by NWC80 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:49:02 PM EST
    I keep seeing this pop up in Rove-like talking points, but it is patently absurd.

    The notion that the issues facing Palin and how she dealth with them in a small town in Alaska are remotely comparable to the ones found in Richmond and whether they resemble those of any city in the lower 48 is an insult to voters.

    And as an aside, one could argue that by receiving her first passport just recently to go on a whirlwind dog & pony tour of Alaskan National Guard deployments and the lack of any substantive public pronouncements on international issues, Palin has not shown even the slightest inclination to be interested in foreign policy whatsoever.

    At least Kaine spent a year as a missionary in Honduras ;oP

    Hardly the resume to stack up against Biden's when it comes to choosing who is ready for the role of leading the nation in a difficult international environment should the need arise.

     

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#65)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:15:45 PM EST
    The criticism of Palin on her record, lack of it and issues, including preparedness to govern if the need arises, has nothing to do with gender. It's valid criticism of any candidate.

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Matt in Chicago on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    the gubernatorial experience is BAD for them.  They feel comfortable taking shots at small towns (those gun toting, bible thumping idiots).  It is almost like they are truing to piss people off.

    Parent
    Press shouldn't beat up on small towns (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by stefystef on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:01:16 PM EST
    This country is made up small towns and if you keep beating up on small town people, acting very snobby and elite, then this election will be lost to the Democrats.

    Remember the last primaries states that went to Hillary.  That was middle America, small town America, the backbone of this nation.  This kind of self-righteous elitism is only going to turn people off.  They might say one thing in public, but in private, it's completely different.

    Parent

    LSKLDJ (none / 0) (#47)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:04:35 PM EST
    There is NOTHING elitist about pointing out the scale of Alaskan and small town politics.  I live in a small town.  Palin's was half the size of mine.  I definately don't want the mayor of mine town running the country two years from now.  And its a MAN.  Am I being sexist?

    Parent
    Did your mayor become governor too? (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:27:27 PM EST
    That's why I said (none / 0) (#106)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:39:26 PM EST
    two years from now (supposing he became governor).

    Parent
    did you mayor take on the entire (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:44:25 PM EST
    political establishment of your state and win.
    did he beat the oil companies into submission on his terms.
    is he thought of as a saint and a superhero in your state.
    if not then there is no comparison.

    Parent
    Man oh man (none / 0) (#119)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:47:08 PM EST
    I just wish someone would take over for the Seattle mayor.

    I can't stand him.

    Yes, I know. O/T.

    Parent

    How did she... (none / 0) (#123)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:49:38 PM EST
    "take on the establishment."  That's a talking point but I've never seen real evidence.  I know she worked for Ted Stevens and supported the Bridge to Nowhere until it wasn't convenient.  I know she took money from oil companies and then gave the money back to the people which isn't a hard political move to make.  Instead she should have invested in to alternative energy along with aid.  But she still advocates for more drilling, going into anwar, etc.  Some anti-oil stance, huh?

    Parent
    in other words (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:53:00 PM EST
    you know Kos talking points.
    no doubt you and everyone else will find out a lot more in the next few days.


    Parent
    You should ask the Obama campaign (5.00 / 0) (#145)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:13:22 PM EST
    everything she did.

    They have a 63 page oppo document on her and have had it for quite some time. it was put together during the 2006 run for gov. Must not be much there is they are falling back on the same argument that she beat the dem candidate with by 8 points back then.

    Parent

    Give me a break... (none / 0) (#35)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:59:09 PM EST
    18 months ago Palin was running a town half the size of mine.  That's legitimate.  It has nothing to do with hating small towns.  It's just reality.  They need to be fair, but part of the argument NEEDS to be that the scale of her experience is troubling.

    Parent
    An odd argument in the AP piece (none / 0) (#15)
    by nrglaw on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:45:20 PM EST
    The AP article talks about McCain's "executive vs legislative experience" argument by saying
    But it's a stretch to argue that running the statehouse in a small state is ideal preparation for the issues that will confront the next president, from wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to coping with a half-trillion-dollar budget deficit and serious energy and health-care problems.
    But this is completely off the mark. Palin was never in the state legislature, let alone run the place.

    This piece may be better than a lot of the stuff from AP on the election lately, but its still sloppily argued.

    You are earnest (5.00 / 0) (#188)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
    and I appreciate that, but my goodness, you don't seem to know much about government.  The statehouse is where the governor of any state governs from.  The phrase "running the statehouse" is a standard cliche for a state governor.  It never means the legislature, even though the legislature usually has its chamber in the same building.

    Parent
    I'll take a pass (none / 0) (#213)
    by nrglaw on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:49:49 PM EST
    But thanks for your point.

    Parent
    No, but the McCain camp falsely said (none / 0) (#18)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:48:08 PM EST
    she was in public office when Obama was a community organizer.  Simply not true.

    Yes, and the truth is that (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by frankly0 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:55:47 PM EST
    she was in public office while Obama was working as a lawyer in a law firm.

    Except in Crazy Land, how is that any more relevant in terms of experience related to running a government than being a community organizer, for Christ's sake?

    I'd say that it was even less relevant -- and I wouldn't doubt but that McCain's camp will gladly take up the truth here, and push that Obama was simply working in a law firm at the time.


    Parent

    So the falsehood doesn't matter (none / 0) (#40)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:02:24 PM EST
    Glad we got that one straightened out.

    The only public office she held before December 4, 2006 was as city councilwoman and then mayor of a town of 9,000 people.

    Obama has 8 years as State Senator in a state with 12 million people, 4 years in the US Senate where he sat on the foreign relations committee, and a year and a half running a successful presidential campaign that involved dozens of debates and hundreds of briefings from the nation's top experts on economic and foreign policy.  

    There is no comparison.

    Parent

    State Senator (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:09:04 PM EST
    part time job. What was it 4 mos a year?

    US Senator, 143 working days before declaring and starting his presidential campaign.

    Palin was also involved with the Oil and Gas Commission (I think I have the name kinda right) and while she was Major was elected (?) head of the Alaskan Mayors. I believe she said she had 13yrs experience. She also owned a business with her husband until 2007.

    Parent

    Palin's local government experience (1.00 / 1) (#84)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:25:07 PM EST
    Was also part-time.  You're grasping at straws, my friend.

    But I have to hand it to you, you're doing a better job than the McCain surrogates.

    Parent

    No, my friend, according to (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:43:15 PM EST
    Was that (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:25:09 PM EST
    before or after she reduced her own salary?
    In 1996, she challenged and defeated the incumbent mayor, criticizing wasteful spending and high taxes. The ex-mayor and sheriff tried to organize a recall campaign, but failed. Palin kept her campaign promises by reducing her own salary, as well as reducing property taxes by 60%.


    Parent
    City councilwoman wasn't (none / 0) (#125)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:52:03 PM EST
    And as you say, she was also running a business, so as mayor she was getting paid for full-time work but not actually working full time.

    Parent
    I imagine her husband helped out (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:02:12 PM EST
    but it's not unusual for women to hold 2 jobs  ;) I can easily hold a FT job and do a second business on the side. May do so again soon.

    Parent
    I applaud your work ethic (none / 0) (#144)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:12:23 PM EST
    and hope if you increase your workload in the near future it's out of choice not necessity.

    Be that as it may, the idea that being mayor of Wasilla, Alaska is better experience than being Illinois State Senator from the South Side of Chicago doesn't pass the laugh test.

    Parent

    I'm not sure I would claim better experience (5.00 / 0) (#166)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:29:53 PM EST
    as it's different experience. I wouldn't discount the Mayor years as there are many aspects to the job.  Small town or not, there are still issues. I've been following the politics/governing of the small mountain community I'll be moving to, and there's quite a bit going on. And it's a smaller community than her small town.

    The extra work is for the move mentioned above. It will mean an earlier move and a larger money cushion so I can take some regroup time when I get there. It will be springtime in the mountains!  {grin} And since it will be over the winter, not that big of a deal.

    Do you know if the North Slope would be something that's considered a security risk that she would have to deal with as Gov?

    Parent

    no foreign policy experience (none / 0) (#107)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:40:03 PM EST
    Palin was also involved with the Oil and Gas Commission (I think I have the name kinda right) and while she was Mayor was elected (?) head of the Alaskan Mayors. I believe she said she had 13yrs experience. She also owned a business with her husband until 2007.

    When you see her resume on paper like this, it's pretty weak.

     

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:44:05 PM EST
    if you see her bio from a source that isn't biased, her whole bio including being head of the council of republican mayors and the ethics board, you will see it actually is quite impressive.

    She is exactly the kind of person Obama was talking about when he said politics starts from the ground up. she started at the PTA.

    Parent

    Don't forget... (none / 0) (#112)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:43:22 PM EST
    ...that important time spent as a local sportscaster!

    Parent
    Make fun all you like but that time (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:45:52 PM EST
    as a sportscaster and her degree in journalism should scare us dems a little.

    It means she is hardly going to be timid in front of the camera, can handle herself in the press and also can work a teleprompter like a pro.

    Parent

    When you consider it was 20yrs ago (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:57:15 PM EST
    a female becoming a sportscaster (even on a local level) is quite an accomplishment.

    Parent
    Perhaps in a major market. (none / 0) (#229)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:52:49 PM EST
    Palin wasn't in a major market like NYC or LA or Seattle, but rather a small 100kw operation in the wilds of Anchorage.

    At a time when the state was starving for workers of any kind.  Where most people were Republican and personal connection went a long way.

    Also condider that waaaay back in the 70's there were female TV personalites in small market Des Moines, IA.  I would hope things were a little less stereotyped some 20 years later.

    Parent

    This business was a car wash (none / 0) (#139)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:06:44 PM EST
    that was shut done by the state for not complying with regulations.  LINK  Not exactly something to trumpet on a resume.

    Parent
    That Palin didn't pull any strings as Gov (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:14:29 PM EST
    to keep the state from shutting down a business that she was a part-owner of seems at least mildly respectable.

    Parent
    She was too busy trying to ban books (none / 0) (#158)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:25:08 PM EST
    or cozying up to a close associate of Jack Abramoff to get earmarks for little Wasilla.  Wow!  What a reformer!

    Parent
    Every state politician (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:08:08 PM EST
    in the country knocks him/herself out to get earmarks.  If they didn't, they'd be criminally negligent to their constituents.

    Find another complaint.  This is silly.

    Parent

    The book issue was when she was mayor, (none / 0) (#163)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:27:43 PM EST
    not Gov. Details, details.

    Parent
    Does it matter? She wanted to BAN (none / 0) (#187)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:59:54 PM EST
    books.  I don't care if it was she when she was in the PTA.  The only DETAIL I care about is that she wanted to ban books!! The fact that you think this distinction matters says it all.

    Parent
    On a serious note though (5.00 / 0) (#198)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:13:05 PM EST
    consider the source:
    John (3 term Jewish mayor who Palin beat in a contentious election and who had most of his best friend appointees fired by Palin because they signed loyalty pledges to him) Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject [Christian] religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.
    I wouldn't accept his comments at face value.

    Parent
    Oh yeah, (5.00 / 0) (#207)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:39:46 PM EST
    and after Palin beat him Stein tried unsuccessfully to organize a recall campaign to oust her...

    Parent
    Thank god someone has actual information (5.00 / 0) (#212)
    by americanincanada on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:47:34 PM EST
    Are you from Alaska?

    Parent
    No sense of humor. (none / 0) (#189)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:02:57 PM EST
    I apologize. Usually I do, but (none / 0) (#196)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:12:38 PM EST
    not today. O/T Waited around the house all day for Verizon to show up to fix a phone line and they never showed.  Second time it has happened.  

     

    Parent

    All good. I should have used an emoticon. (none / 0) (#200)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:14:18 PM EST
    I read that she (none / 0) (#228)
    by Bluesage on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 07:52:00 PM EST
    Refused the funds to enlarge the Library because she thought it was not needed at that time and the money was going to be used for other projects.  Nothing about banning books except from a political foe with an axe to grind.  

    Parent
    She didn't own that business (none / 0) (#143)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:12:10 PM EST
    read the article carefully

    Parent
    You're replying to the wrong person. (none / 0) (#153)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:19:26 PM EST
    Upthread nycstray offered this "She also owned a business with her husband until 2007 " as proof of Palin's 'vast' experience.  

    I did read the article and know that she owned 20% and her hubby owned another 20%.


    Parent

    And I was wrong :) (none / 0) (#195)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:08:37 PM EST
    I thought I read they had a biz until 2007, but now I can't find it. In the mid 1990s they ran a business selling snowmobiles, watercraft and all terrain vehicles. There's also the fishing business, but that may be on his side of the family.

    and I never said it was "proof of Palin's 'vast' experience" now did I? No.

    Parent

    He was running a voter ... (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:56:47 PM EST
    registration drive.

    Most people don't even know what a community organizer is.  And wouldn't see much different between the two.

    Even Obama conflates the two upon occasions.

    Parent

    True, most people don't know. (none / 0) (#104)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:36:19 PM EST
    I do, however. I thought that part of his community organizing experience was advocating for low-income residents in housing projects and working with churches to get those same people job training.

    You know, it's interesting (to me) how my impressions of candidate qualifications have evolved over the campaign season, but I'm alot more impressed with Obama's work as a community organizer than I am with his Harvard Law degree or the one class he taught.

    And I'm pretty sure that puts me in a very different category from many of the commenters here.

    Parent

    But still... (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:44:47 PM EST
    I don't think we want to go down the road of which one has more experience. Especially since Obama is -- supposedly -- running for president, not vice-president, a point that seems to be lost to his most ardent supporters.

    This whole thing is actually starting to look like a cartoon.

    Parent

    A little critical review (none / 0) (#48)
    by Lahdee on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:04:58 PM EST
    of most of what comes out of the McCain campaign will end badly for the republicans. I know, how about the just shut up?
    No?
    Oh well, they talk at their own peril.

    The noise factor (none / 0) (#49)
    by Lou Grinzo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:05:02 PM EST
    My biggest fear about Palin being on the ticket is that there will be so much churn in the discussion about what is or isn't off limits, that some of the more serious issues surrounding her time in office will be significantly diluted.

    (And no, this isn't a dig at the rules here on TL.  I agree with those, in fact; I'm commenting on how much time is being wasted elsewhere in the meta discussion, and how easy it will be for the Republicans to label even valid criticism of her as "getting personal" or "piling on".  That level of noise only helps the Republicans at this point.)


    Jeralyn... (none / 0) (#50)
    by prose on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:05:50 PM EST
    please?  

    Seriously? Because I am unhappy that (none / 0) (#54)
    by Matt in Chicago on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:08:38 PM EST
    Obama is playing into an obvious trap?!  Well if that is too negative for you to hear, then please ban me.

    Parent
    If this is such an obvious trap (none / 0) (#60)
    by AF on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:12:02 PM EST
    Why is Obama surging in the polls?

    And why are the Republican spokespeople have moments on national television like this and this?

    If this is a trap, please send us some more!

    Parent

    that comment has been deleted (none / 0) (#73)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:18:53 PM EST
    for calling Obama a derogatory name.

    Parent
    Seem to be some GOP types in (1.00 / 1) (#122)
    by domerdem on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:48:58 PM EST
    Dem clothing running around here in recent days.  Of course, not everyone criticizing Obama is a GOPer by any stretch, but some recent examples are just too easy to read.  C'mon, just say your are GOPers, and let's have a discussion.

    Parent
    There are just too many Republicans (none / 0) (#57)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:10:50 PM EST
    going on the record in Alaska saying less than flattering things about Palin - it is hard for me to believe that the Obama campaign or any other Democrats could pull that off.

    she took on the entire republican (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:15:59 PM EST
    establishment in her state.  this should be no surprise.  she pi$$ed off a lot of powerful republicans and then took them to the woodshed.
    most say this is also the source of "troopergate".

    Parent
    Running a 527 for Stevens (none / 0) (#215)
    by indiependy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:55:34 PM EST
    Seems you have an interesting definition of taking on "the entire republican establishment"

    and "troopergate" may have been exposed by enemies, but she did herself no favors by lying about her involvement.

    But I'm sure McCain appreciates your constant shilling for his VP pick.

    Parent

    How insulting (none / 0) (#74)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:19:27 PM EST
    Madame Scullary.  Not all Democrats are automatons that fall into place because someone simply has a D behind their name.

    Try again.  

    it boggles the mind (none / 0) (#103)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 04:34:17 PM EST


    Heh (none / 0) (#140)
    by Steve M on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:08:39 PM EST
    This guy must be the counterpoint to Fournier or something.  Instead of providing objective journalism, maybe the AP has decided it would rather just feature an equal number of hacks from both sides!  That way, if you run a pro-McCain paper, you can print Fournier's "analysis," and if you run a pro-Obama paper, you can print this guy's analysis instead.

    Unsurprisingly, I happen to agree with the Obama side on a number of the issues discussed in this piece.  But it still makes me uncomfortable to see a journalist from the AP doing little more than reciting one campaign's talking points, even if it's the campaign I like.

    I just looked up the reporter (none / 0) (#157)
    by Grace on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:24:27 PM EST
    He's from USA Today.  

    So what we are really looking at is a "McNews Nugget."  Short, breezy, to the point, what people on airplanes want to read.  

    Parent

    ruh roh (none / 0) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:13:24 PM EST
    Thompson is pretty good at this stuff:

    "Thompson Speech Hits Media on Palin"

    Palin is the tar baby (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Exeter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:21:30 PM EST
    by the side of road, set out by Brer McCain and being struck vigorously by the Brer Dems.

    Parent
    let me agree (none / 0) (#160)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:26:09 PM EST
    before this comment dissappears.
    un-pc but a perfect analogy.  pleeeeeaseeee dont throw me in that briar patch.

    Parent
    Oh... (none / 0) (#216)
    by Exeter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:57:07 PM EST
    I have faith in Jerelyn that she has read Uncle Remus.

    Parent
    Let's see if he makes it through (none / 0) (#170)
    by domerdem on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:34:02 PM EST
    without putting himself or the audience to sleep.  He can be good, but is often pretty low energy.  

    Parent
    The last time I couldn't fall asleep (none / 0) (#178)
    by Grace on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:43:15 PM EST
    I bought a bottle of "Fred Thompson."  Knocked me out like a light!  It's amazing how fast that stuff works.  ;-)

    Parent
    fred may not be the most electrifying (none / 0) (#181)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:45:37 PM EST
    speaker.  
    but he is pretty good at umbrage and outrage.

    Parent
    When I see Fred, (none / 0) (#183)
    by domerdem on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:50:58 PM EST
    I always think of this quote from Forest Gump:

    "I'm pretty tired... I think I'll go home now."

    Parent

    Eagleton soon................ (none / 0) (#175)
    by Blowback on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:39:10 PM EST
    Flash!

    CBS new says Palin has been "out of sight & in seclusion for 3 days."

    McSame very defensive says he thoroughly vetted Palin. She has had no serious media exposure, only People Mag so far.

    also she lied about "Bridge to No Where!"

    Championed earmarks as Mayor.

    State Trooper Gate; says Alaska largest site; Borders Russia so she is foreign poicy wonk.

    I sense an Eagleton coming any day now!

    would you like to make a friendly wager (5.00 / 0) (#179)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:43:32 PM EST
    on that?

    Parent
    Seclusion (5.00 / 0) (#197)
    by Paladin on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:12:46 PM EST
    I'm assuming the main reason she's secluded is to practice her speech.  She also must be rehearsing talking points to address the myriad questions she's going to be facing on all fronts.

    I don't think she'll drop out.  McCain's own stubborness wouldn't allow it.

    Parent

    She's been out of sight? (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:13:21 PM EST
    Seems I've seen images of her and McCain and she's worn several different outfits at different locations.

    Parent
    Read that Phyllis Schlafly is upset (none / 0) (#180)
    by domerdem on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:45:16 PM EST
    that Palin will not attend a pro-life convention event tonight.  

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#184)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:51:00 PM EST
    Turns out her husband belonged to the seperatist party from 95 to 2002, with a brief break in 2000(?).  

    Ok, politics aside, thats just funny. Its like 1850 or something.

    According to their website (none / 0) (#186)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:59:39 PM EST
    The platform of the AIP is, as one would expect, centered on Alaskan issues. Although it is widely thought to be a secessionist movement, the Party makes great effort to emphasize that its primary goal is merely a vote on secession, something that Party advocates say Alaskans were denied during the founding of the state.


    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#192)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:04:59 PM EST
    But of course its not just about a vote.  Some want to start a nation, some want a commonwealth type set up...  And according to them, some just want to have the option.  The founder damned American every which way and isnt even buried on American soil because he hated us so much.

    There is no doubt that Mr. Palin will eventually give an interview (I see Diane Sawyer in his future) where he discusses it.   If he's smart, he'll say he just wanted a vote and not a new country and that he didnt agree with the founder.

    But tell me there isnt comedy in the idea of the potential first first-man of the United States being a former aspiring rebel.   Does the confederacy win in that case? I'll need to check my Risk rules. They may need to own Yakutsk first.

    Parent

    Mr. Palin is part Native American. (none / 0) (#201)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:17:45 PM EST
    That would be an interesting interview.

    Parent
    How To Replace a Vice Presidential Nominee (none / 0) (#210)
    by domerdem on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:44:40 PM EST
    From Slate

    Posting from the convention? (none / 0) (#211)
    by domerdem on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:46:07 PM EST