Spain An Adversary? A Homage To TR And The Rough Riders?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:40:45 PM EST
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John McCain and his sycophants always tried to equate John McCain to Teddy Roosevelt. Maybe McCain foreign policy lobbyist/adviser Randy Scheunemann has a homage to TR in mind when he says:

Senator McCain did not rule in or rule out a White House meeting with President Zapatero, a NATO ally. If elected, he will meet with a wide range of allies in a wide variety of venues but is not going to spell out scheduling and meeting location specifics in advance. He also is not going to make reckless promises to meet America's adversaries.

(Emphasis supplied.) So what does that mean? [More...]

He will meet with Zapatero but is not "going to spell out scheduling and meeting locations in advance?" Who asked for scheduling and meeting locations? Or does McCain view Spain as one of "America's adversaries?"

Will John McCain being unfurling a "Remember the Maine" ad soon? Maybe the "~~Original~~ Antique Maverick" is still thinking about the glorious charge up San Juan Hill or something.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< McCain Was For Meeting With Spanish Leader Before He Was Against It | McCain Gaffe Fest Continues: Says Prez Should Fire SEC Chief, But He Can't >

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Spain An Adversary? A Homage To TR And The Rough Riders? | 60 comments (60 topical)

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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!! (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by steviez314 on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:44:36 PM EST

---Sarah Palin, oops, MICHAEL Palin.

: yes, when it comes to Palins (none / 0) (#4)
by desmoinesdem on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:45:23 PM EST

I will take Michael Palin every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[ Parent ]

BTD (5.00 / 1) (#59)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 07:47:53 PM EST

have you ever considered a second career as a writer of satire? I must confess this post gave me some pretty good laughs.

RE; (1.00 / 1) (#7)
by az on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:51:00 PM EST

much ado about nothing...

Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:53:22 PM EST

If you liked the last 8 years, you will love ta McCain Administration.

For folks like you, I imagine it is much ado about nothing.

Who needs allies? Who cares about competent foreign policy? Eff it.

[ Parent ]

RE; (none / 0) (#18)
by az on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:01:46 PM EST

How do you feel about Obama's foreign policy position of talking one on one as president without preconditions with the leaders of these rogue nations ? If we are talking about a competent foreign policy ...

Just curious...

Seems like a lot of gotcha politics gone wrong in this scenario . It wasn't a gaffe , more like an evasive answer to me....

[ Parent ]

A mistake (5.00 / 0) (#19)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:03:44 PM EST

I said so at the time.

Guess what I did not write - "much ado about nothing."

But if you are comfortable with Bush's Third Term, then indeed you should be cheering this mindlessness from the McCain camp.

[ Parent ]

: I'm wondering if it was a Palmerstonian... (none / 0) (#56)
by Salo on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 06:44:43 PM EST

...moment.
wogs start at Dover and all that malarky.

[ Parent ]

I would agree (none / 0) (#22)
by MKS on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:11:31 PM EST

if you consider the fact that we might have to bomb adversaries like Spain....

Spain as an adversary? A long time NATO ally and democracy as an advesary?.....It would be funny except McCain could actually win....

[ Parent ]

Without preconditions? (none / 0) (#39)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:07:33 PM EST

If he actually said that, it was a gaffe...nothing more.

[ Parent ]

Obama's early foreign gaffs (none / 0) (#49)
by themomcat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:22:09 PM EST

were typical rookie mistakes. Obama seems to be a fast learner has of late been more careful in what he says about foreign policy. McCain, however, has been around for a quarter of a century, McCain should know better. After listening to the tape, I wonder though did he not hear or just not understand? Did he get confused? I find McCain very scary.

[ Parent ]

: A fast learner as leader of the free world. (none / 0) (#54)
by Cream City on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 06:36:49 PM EST

Uh, this is not a really good argument. There must be something more persuasive and reassuring to sell to the American voter than this.

[ Parent ]
: He is scary (none / 0) (#61)
by ankae on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 11:39:47 PM EST

Too many mistakes...I am beginning to wonder now if it is his age. I just will not accept he could be this reckless or stupid....wait a minute he is Bush 43...he CAN be this reckless !

[ Parent ]

You are as bad as McCain. Spain is (none / 0) (#50)
by JoeA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 05:47:24 PM EST

a "rogue" nation? Crazy talk.

[ Parent ]

"So what does that mean? " (1.00 / 1) (#10)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:55:01 PM EST

I think it means:

Senator McCain did not rule in or rule out a White House meeting with President Zapatero, a NATO ally. If elected, he will meet with a wide range of allies in a wide variety of venues

And following that, I think it means:

but [McCain] is not going to spell out scheduling and meeting location specifics in advance. He also is not going to make reckless promises to meet America's adversaries.

Seems fairly clear to me.

Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:59:55 PM EST

Two problems - first, no one asked for specifics about when and where. A clear red herring.

Second, is Spain an adversary? Otherwise, why are we hearing about adversaries on a question about Spain?

[ Parent ]

Deflection (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by andgarden on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:01:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Why the defense of such (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by MKS on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:13:35 PM EST

a blunder. It would only be a gaffe but the campaign reinforces the error.....They would rather McCain be called nutso belligerant than senile....

[ Parent ]

: Indeed they would. (5.00 / 0) (#25)
by andgarden on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:16:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: It's as if they are trying to distract us from (none / 0) (#40)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:08:44 PM EST

something.......

[ Parent ]

Sure, it could be a red herring, (2.00 / 0) (#26)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:18:15 PM EST

or it could be just that politicians and their surrogates when given the opportunity to talk (ok, email) often avoid answering the actual question and/or drone on about whatever other point it is they want to make whether it is related to the original question or not.

But hey, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion...

[ Parent ]

Country First? (none / 0) (#33)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:47:28 PM EST

Huh? Did I miss something? (none / 0) (#34)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:57:16 PM EST

What are you asking me?

[ Parent ]

American foreign policy (none / 0) (#36)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:59:24 PM EST

secondary to McCain's political fortunes. McCain said in April he would meet with Zapatero. But to cover up a blunder, he will sacrifice relations with Spain.

Country first?

[ Parent ]

In McCain/Palin land (none / 0) (#41)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:10:25 PM EST

"Country first" means "my power, MINE"

[ Parent ]

: Ah, (none / 0) (#47)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:13:53 PM EST

"country first." I get it now.

[ Parent ]

You're assuming that his comments (none / 0) (#43)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:11:08 PM EST

in the interview were (to him) a blunder. Clearly he was doing his standard politician thing of regurgitating well-rehearsed talking points, which would imply his comments were not (to him) a blunder.

Whether or not you believe his position on the issue is wrong, I'm not sure it's been established as fact that his position is the result of a blunder in that interview, although I certainly understand why one could think it is.

To those who want this to be a scandal, I'm sure it is. To those who don't, it's not.

To those who could go either way, I'm not sure it's the deal-breaker some think it is.

But, hey, what the hell do I know...

[ Parent ]

: The last thought (none / 0) (#60)
by Dark Avenger on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 09:29:21 PM EST

has crossed my mind when reading your posts, USO.

[ Parent ]

Zapatero, Zapatista (none / 0) (#2)
by desmoinesdem on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:44:45 PM EST

You hot-blooded Latins all seem the same to John McCain.

Will he get even 30 percent of the Latino vote on November 4?

: I am so glad (none / 0) (#37)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:05:40 PM EST

that Obama is doing so well with Latinos. After Hil got the Latino vote in the primary, and McCain coming from a SW state...I thought it was an Obama vulnerability.
Turns out...not so much.

[ Parent ]

The bolded comment (none / 0) (#3)
by kredwyn on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:45:04 PM EST

is a thwack at Obama re: meeting with the leaders of Iran and Cuba.

Just a wild guess...

The Axis Of Exil (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:54:02 PM EST

Iran, Cuba and Spain.

Got it.

[ Parent ]

Maybe he wants Georgia to take Spain's place in (none / 0) (#12)
by steviez314 on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:57:16 PM EST

NATO?

[ Parent ]

: Someone should tell him. . . (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by LarryInNYC on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:11:45 PM EST

those Georgians don't vote.

[ Parent ]

Don't forget Russia (none / 0) (#38)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:06:10 PM EST

That's how I took it, but (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by scribe on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:59:08 PM EST

for McSame and his camp, they are so off their game that any attempts at snark (like that comment) will be lost on the larger audience.

Right now, he's a half-crazy guy living in your house who wants to blow the bugle and re-do his charge up San Juan Hill.

[ Parent ]

Remember the Maine!! (none / 0) (#5)
by eric on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:48:27 PM EST

n/t

: And forget the McCain! n/t (none / 0) (#32)
by LarryInNYC on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:47:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

The republicans have always... (none / 0) (#6)
by EL seattle on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:48:45 PM EST

...had trouble with the word "socialist", I think.

It's a Pavlovian thing, probably.

Scheunemann's Statement (none / 0) (#11)
by Paladin on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:56:54 PM EST

is obviously a weak attempt to conflate McCain's gaffe with Obama's statements (early in the primary) about meeting with Iran and Syria. Pretty obvious and quite pathetic.

: and to deflect what seems clearly to have (none / 0) (#51)
by JoeA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 05:50:55 PM EST

been McCain just not understanding the questions which were spoken in heavily accented English, by effectively throwing a Nato ally under the bus and pretending he was deliberately declining to meet Zapatero. But remember. . . McCain would rather lose an election than lose a war/his honour . . . yaddayada

[ Parent ]

Bill O (none / 0) (#13)
by indiependy on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:58:21 PM EST

Maybe O'Reilly will jump in and start a Tempranillo and Paella boycott.

btw, Spanish wines (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:12:13 PM EST

are the best values on the planet these days.

[ Parent ]

you must mean (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:13:39 PM EST

"freedom wines"

[ Parent ]

: As long as it tastes good, (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:15:20 PM EST

call it anything you like.

[ Parent ]

Not the paella! (none / 0) (#16)
by scribe on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 02:59:56 PM EST

Anything, but not the paella!

[ Parent ]

Well (none / 0) (#42)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:11:04 PM EST

that won't work.

I have some saffron I need to use up.

[ Parent ]

Spin city (none / 0) (#20)
by cannondaddy on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:07:55 PM EST

Drudge readers are given a link to this article:

What McCain said in April (none / 0) (#21)
by Steve M on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:10:30 PM EST

was a sane and sensible position. A conscious renunciation of a silly Bush foreign policy position. The sort of thing that reminds reasonable people why they like John McCain.

Thank goodness he didn't stick with it!

So... (none / 0) (#27)
by Brillo on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:30:18 PM EST

Is McCain's age (and mental state) still offlimits after this? What exactly does he have to do before we can bring this up without being called ageists?

This has nothing to do with age (none / 0) (#29)
by indy in sc on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:41:19 PM EST

imo. I firmly believe that Bush's camp would have reacted the exact same way if they had been in this position--that is the problem. The issue is not wanting to admit a simple and perfectly excusable mistake and being willing to further strain relations with an ally just to avoid doing so.

[ Parent ]

: I Guess... (none / 0) (#31)
by Brillo on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:44:36 PM EST

It depends on why you think he made the mistake in the first place. The inability or unwillingness to admit the mistake is a separate (but compounding) issue.

[ Parent ]

The interviewers spoke in heavily accented English (none / 0) (#52)
by JoeA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 05:52:26 PM EST

The story here is that McCain was too embarrassed to get her to repeat herself, and then in the coverup where they pretend he was totally on the ball and meant every word (which is clearly a lie).

[ Parent ]

I'm anxious for Obama's (none / 0) (#30)
by prose on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:43:31 PM EST

zinger on this one. He's been hitting them out of the park today. Did you hear what he said about the SEC firing non-sense? Can't wait 'til he gets to the Spain gaffe (although maybe he won't because he's staying disciplined on the economy). I guess we'll see.

He will probably leave it to the media (none / 0) (#53)
by JoeA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 05:53:48 PM EST

or surrogates. Its a sensitive area and I don't think he will want to appear to be making an issue of McCain's age/mental acuity. Besides, as you say I think he will probably want to keep his focus on the economy.

[ Parent ]

He would be wise to do so (none / 0) (#55)
by Cream City on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 06:40:09 PM EST

and not talk about it four times in a row, like the surrogates here. Yes, somehow, I suspect the American people are more interested in the economy now.

[ Parent ]

Certainly (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 06:45:11 PM EST

The economy is the number 1 issue.

But this is just plain effed up by McCain.

Not being an Obama campaign operative, I get to write about what bother me personally, not just what helps Obama the most.

Try thinking about this issue in that light.

[ Parent ]

: Watching the youtube (none / 0) (#58)
by JoeA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 06:53:13 PM EST

her accent is pretty thick and I can understand him having difficulty following her questions (hell I had difficulty understanding them), especially on a phone interview. The bizarre thing is that rather than just admitting that, the McCain campaign is willing to lie and pretending he was deliberately snubbing Spain. Another low point for the Straight Talk Express.

[ Parent ]

OT: Bill Interview on CNBC (none / 0) (#35)
by Stellaaa on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 03:57:22 PM EST

I am sure they will loop it again, but damn is that guy great. Tell me again why we did not want him either as the husband of the President or VP-- oh yeah cause it's not about fighting.

: Don't ask. (none / 0) (#45)
by coigue on Thu Sep 18, 2008 at 04:12:17 PM EST

better not to open freshly scabbed wounds.

[ Parent ]