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On Palinpalooza

Al Giordano discussing an Obama Tier 2 ad (which means it is NOT from Obama):

Obsession with Palin has more often than not, in the past 14 days, said more about the misogynist and sexist culture we live in than about Governor Palin. It doesn't matter if, on the merits, the critique is right or wrong: it's the kind of Palin-hate that drowns out the more necessary fair-game critiques of her, and inoculates her from them. In a way, the obsessions over Palin from parts of the left mirror the act of aerial hunting being described in the ad. (And it's a very eerie coincidence that the McCain campaign's own pre-existing Internet ad that purports to be against "sexism" also uses the image of invading wolves, albeit making the opposite point.)

I wonder if that post makes Giordano a "concern troll?"

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Rich: Focus On McCain, Not Palin | Saturday Night Open Thread >
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    We should all be (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by rooge04 on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:41:51 PM EST
    concern trolling at this point.  The left blogs are behaving in the most clueless manner imaginable.

    The data comes out and tells them to their face that attacking Palin with misogyny and sexism cost Obama any bounce he might have gotten from the Convention and what's their answer? Attack Palin! Yeah, that's the ticket! Since it's worked not at all in the last 14 days, actually, it's helped McCain...let's do THAT some more.

     It's like hitting my head against a brick wall.

    How about this idea? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Don in Seattle on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:36:20 PM EST
    We attack McCain. Attack him for being Bush III. Attack him for not having a clue about the economy. Attack him for not knowing Shi'a from Sunni. Attack him honestly, but hit him hard for the dishonest, dishonorable, say-anything sleaze merchant he has become.

    And we attack Palin, too. Not with sexism, not with misogyny, but fairly, and hard. She is a serial liar; she is a right-wing ideologue. Her own campaign knows she is so manifestly unready for office, they dare not expose her to the same interview procedure ANY other candidate would face. We don't treat her any worse, or better, than we would if McCain had tapped Bobby Jindal.

    We can't ignore McCain -- after all, he is their candidate. But Palin is their rock star, and it is reverse sexism, and just nuts, to go easy on her, just because...

    Obama/Biden might lose using this "just fight" strategy, it's true. Here's news: despite appearances, Obama was never a lock to win the presidency. Nor would Hillary Clinton have been. Since 1968, Democrats have run for President ten times, and won only three: once in the immediate aftermath of Watergate, and twice with less than 50% of the vote in 3-way elections.

    We might lose. We may lose. So what? This election is too important for us to start blaming each other early -- or celebrating early, either. If we go down, we resolve to go down swinging, and true to our beliefs.

    Parent

    It should have started that way (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by lambert on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:06:59 PM EST
    Now, since the whole Palin attack started with misogyny (standard prog method), pivoting into the lying attack is, if not discredited, less easy to credit. Then combine that with the whole Tier Two thinking, and the whole thing turns into a wankfest.

    [pounds forehead on desk]

    Parent

    Another big "nothing-burger" (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 05:01:43 AM EST
    Palin is a reformer.  That means she made enemies.

    Do you have any specific facts?  Or just sensational allegations?

    How about probable cause to prove she committed a crime?  (not speculation, real facts from identified sources)

    So far all that's been dug up is stuff like "ZOMG!  She had an overdue library book!"

    Parent

    No, it was trying to have books (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 11:41:13 AM EST
    removed from the Wasilla library.  And specifically at least two books dealing with gay lifestyle issues.

    Still a believer in her saying "thanks, but no thanks to the Bridge from Nowhere?"  

    Parent

    Wow... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by kredwyn on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 08:35:38 AM EST
    There's a lot of emo language in there.

    Parent
    Uh... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Brillo on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:48:07 PM EST
    That's not really what Al's post was about.  

    Parent
    Sure it is (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:50:02 PM EST
    Um... (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Brillo on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:02:05 PM EST
    The post is entitled "Political Poaching: When "527s" Step on and Muddy the Message".  It's about 527's attempting to inject themselves into the race for their own ideological and fund raising purposes, and how they oftentimes mess up candidates own messaging.  The stuff about Palin was a small part of the post, used to illustrate the larger point being made.

    Parent
    When I read this yesterday, (none / 0) (#15)
    by 1jpb on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    I had the same impression you're describing.

    Parent
    That NY Times front page article tomorrow (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by steviez314 on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:49:10 PM EST
    about Palin should be a must read.  Very factual and for me, scary.

    Not matter what we say, of course the Times had to do it--no one knows anything about her.

    Now the idea is for the blogs to not pick up on that article with 1000 OMG diaries with 82 exclamation points.

    If the facts in the article have any impact, they will stand on their own and be picked up by other media.

    I don't think the door is closed yet on having the MSM raise substantive doubts about Palin, as long as its not Obama or the obviously "lefty" blogs doing it.

    Since (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:57:11 PM EST
    most people seem to think that the media is biased toward Obama how does this help? Doesn't every article that comes out against Mccain or Palin just reinforce that belief? Besides, the GOP has shown that they know how to go around the media filter effectively.

    I don't think that you can depend on things like this to help Obama. He is going to have to make it happen himself.

    Parent

    I consider myself a left wing liberal (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by kenosharick on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:57:01 PM EST
    and i do not trust the MSM or most left blogs anymore. In my life I have seen the media give a total pass to three politicians: Reagan, bushII, and now Obama. I didn't like it then and I do not like it now. I take most of what they say about palin with a grain of salt.

    Parent
    I agree that Obama is being given a pass (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:01:57 PM EST
    on some issues and I'm not happy about it either.  I'm certainly not the leftiest of the left either.

    Parent
    After Troopergate and Babygate (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by myiq2xu on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:34:37 PM EST
    and the negatative-spinning and hyping of ever tidbit of information about Palin, anyone who wants factual information will be ignoring the pro-Obama bloggers.

    It's incredible how many people this year have thrown away their credibility (and reputations) trying to help Obama.

    Parent

    credibility loss (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by christinep on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:45:07 PM EST
    Depending on what happens in November, the matter of "throwing away crdibility" to help a favorite will be a worthwhile study. Or, maybe it is nothing more than the insidious "ends justify the means" way of thinking.

    Parent
    No matter who wins in November, (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by myiq2xu on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:52:48 PM EST
    their credibilty will take a long time to repair.

    Parent
    One thing I tell my students (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by kredwyn on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 08:40:33 AM EST
    is not to subvert their own credibility for the sake of persuading an audience.

    Once you've lost it, it's gone...and it takes ages to earn that trust back.

    Parent

    All I'm saying is that the media is going to do (none / 0) (#11)
    by steviez314 on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:03:55 PM EST
    whatever they want to do.

    I don't depend on them, but if it happens that this story can gain some traction and swing 1-2% of voters (certainly not impossible) all the better.

    If it turns out that every media story no matter what works to McCain's favor because everyone hates the media, well, there's nothing you, I or Obama can do about it.

    The key is, if the media does its job, and it ends up useful to Obama, there's no need to go crazy about it.

    Obama just keeps on doing his job, and the media just does theirs.

    Parent

    Too late (none / 0) (#9)
    by ap in avl on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:01:46 PM EST
    Huff Post has it front and center.

    I don't like Palin's positions at all.  She is everything I don't want in an elected official.  It scares me to think that one day she could be our President.

    But I get so many chain emails from friends who are Palinpalooza crazy that I don't even want to check my mail anymore.

    I get it.  We don't want her.
    But it still irritates me so I can only speculate what those who look at her even somewhat positively think when they hear the attacks.

    Parent

    HuffPo just links to the Times story (none / 0) (#12)
    by steviez314 on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:07:31 PM EST
    They haven't yet generated those 5000 comments, 200 blog entries and all those ZOMG!!!!

    My view on Palin is just let the interviews and stories speak for themselves.  If she's the greatest thing since sliced bread, so be it.  If not, we will all see it.

    Parent

    Obama still has a good ... (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:55:29 PM EST
    change to win this thing.

    But Palinpalooza has guarantee that, whatever the outcome of this election, Palin is going to be a part of the national scene for a long time to come.

    If McCain loses, she's the immediate odds on favorite for the 2012 nomination.  She'll get re-elected as Governor, meet tons of world leaders, and so on.  If McCain wins ... well, you know the rest of that.

    In an effort to destroy her, the Palinpaloozers not only didn't help Obama, but they elevated rather than destroyed her.

    Dan Quayle (none / 0) (#27)
    by Demi Moaned on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 01:19:45 AM EST
    I don't know. Dan Quayle had no traction in '96 and he actually served a term as Vice-President (shudder).

    Parent
    Seems rather silly (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:56:11 PM EST
    how a group genuinely concerned about wildlife issues can now become labeled as Palinpaloozaingl and also aiding misogynism in this country.  I spent most of the day at the Dothan mall hosting Responsible Dog Ownership today as a representative for the American Kennel Club.  I'm an omnivore and I believe that we need to worry a bit more about how we treat our children than pets and wildlife, I also worked on a family ranch during the summer while growing up so I'm not a "tree hugger" I suppose.  These are very real issues though for many people that are expressed in the ad, I was surrounded by them today along with people like myself who find some of Palin's approved hunting methods pretty disgusting.  Hunting wolves from low flying planes during winter has been an issue of disgust since I was a kid and when specific groups have specific beefs with candidates and they've paid their dues on the issues and now they've paid their cash to address those held views I fail to see how they are serving anything more than the issues and their own need to participate in the democracy. So yes, Giordano is a "concern troll" here.

    hunting wolves (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by christinep on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:40:52 PM EST
    I love wolves. So, when the story about hunting methods in Alaska first spread, it hit as another "yech." Then, I did some research--only because the stories about Palin were flying so fast & furious it had a kind of orchestrated witch-hunt feel to it. What I found was that the area of the hunt involves indigenous tribes who request and support the hunting process because they have long depended upon caribou and moose in their culture and diet. Wolves are predators who threaten that balance.  Now, a caveat: I don't know what the whole story is on either side--usually, both sides inflate their position in these types of struggles--but, the ethical dilemma here may have more than one aspect.

    Parent
    Wolves ensure a healthy herd (2.00 / 0) (#29)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 01:38:12 AM EST
    That balance has existed for eons....Alaska is one of the few places were wolves still live in a natural environment....

    Outside of Yellowstone, I do not think there are any wolves in the lower 48.  None in California, none in Colorado,  none anywhere else....Coyotes have filled the vaccum....Coyotes used to just be in the West--now they are everywhere including Manhattan's Central Park at times. The reason for this is that wolves, their natural predator, are gone....

    So, if you have to hunt wolves in Alaska, then you are pushing wolves out of their last remaining habitat....

    And, the issue has been to increase herd of elk for hunters--and not just the Native Americans who have lived in co-existence with wolves and elk and caribou for thousands of years.  What is new is all the rich on hunting junkets.      

    Parent

    Wolves are now present (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:19:46 AM EST
    in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula, besides being present throughout Canada. Its expected that they will soon extend into eastern Washington and Oregon. They were for decades a protected species in the lower 48, although they have been delisted as such earlier this year. They were never a protected species in Alaska because their populations were never in danger there, just as they have never been in danger population wise in Canada.

    I'm not sure of the all the facts in this issue, but I know it is more complex and nuanced than the ranting blogs would have you believe.

    Parent

    And according to (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:26:53 AM EST
    this article from early 2006, there are anywhere from 7000 to 11000 wolves in Alaska, and from 2003 through 2006 445 wolves were killed in the aerial culling program.

    Parent
    And here is an article from 2007 (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:38:54 AM EST
    on the controversy surrounding wolf culling proposed in the Idaho, Montana, Wyoming area, which has a much smaller number of wolves than does Alaska.

    Parent
    Coming from a ranching family (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 09:11:06 AM EST
    but also a respecter of balance, the wolf controversies are extremely nuanced and many Montana ranchers find themselves very upset and depleted when their cattle herds get hit.  It is the "sport" of aerial hunting I believe, and the potential that it has grow to into something with an econmic power that is an issue for me.  As soon as something seems to contribute to an economy even in the smallest way, then it seems impossible to curtail it in America even if it is destroying far more than it supports.  Aerial hunting wolves in Alaska is a bit like quail ranch hunting in Texas, not much effort or sportsmanship involved. You get to kill lots of something if you have the bucks it takes to pay for the pleasure.  In areas though where the wolves are in competition with human beings it isn't unusual for a bounty to be placed on predators.  I have gone coyote hunting with my father before when there was a bounty on them in Colorado and there were so many of them they would eat the calf out of a cow as it was being born. It was pretty tough though, it was usually a lot easier taking them on when we were out feeding cows and they would stand on the hilltops trying to spot the youngest and the weakest to go after after we left.  A human being still has the advantage when you have the rifle and the scope.  There could be a laziness factor, though I'm not sure about that, when it comes to tribes wanting the government to do the jobs of protecting their herds for them so they don't have to.  I thought that Republican run governments weren't supposed to be doing stuff for the people though that they could be doing for themselves.

    Parent
    Wyoming, Montana and Idaho (none / 0) (#43)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 11:23:46 AM EST
    That is Yellowstone......

    And I'm glad to hear wolves are in the Northern border area with Canada....They used to be in California, New Mexico, Colorado, and a lot of other places....

    The reason wolves nearly became extinct in the lower 48 was because they were deemed a pest and nearly hunted and poisoned out of existence....

    A balance of wolves with moose and caribou and Native Americans existed in Alaska for a long, long, long time.  There are now many more people who want to hunt moose and caribou.....

    Of course, those who support aerial hunting will have data to back up what they say.....but there are all kinds of industry people in Alaska who deny global warming.....and I remember the tobacco industry who for years had all kinds of science to say that there was no evidence that smoking caused cancer.

    For wolf lovers, I would recommend Cormac McCarthy's The Crossing.  Harold Bloom has compared McCarthy to Melville, and he is considered by many our greatest living author....The Crossing begins with a teenage boy in 1940s New Mexico observing a pack of wolves running through the snow at night under a full moon.....It is acknowledged as one of McCarthy's best passages.....The boy later finds a wolf in a trap, rescuses the wolf, and then tries to repatriate the wolf in Mexcio, crossing over the border...      

    Parent

    Wolves exist in areas outside (none / 0) (#47)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 01:33:12 PM EST
    of Yellowstone, even though you keep insisting that they only exist there. In those three states they exist well outside of the Yellowstone border, and in fact the first wolves to return to Montana came via Canada in the '70s and not by way of the reintroduction in Yellowstone. The first sighting of a grey wolf making its home in Eastern Oregon happened earlier this year. Given another decade I'm sure that wolves will extend their range back into many more states.

    And in the Great Lakes area (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan) wolves again repopulated from Canada, and the small area in northern Minnesota where they had survived despite eradication efforts earlier in the century, starting in the 70's when they became protected under the Endangered Species Act.

    A long term balance of caribou, wolves and humans has existed for a long time, but part of that long term balance involved years of starvation for some humans. Nature's balance is always a balance over the long term, and can be a pretty cruel balance in the short term. Humans tend to be more concerned about short term balance and scarcity,  especially where it concerns their own personal survival, which may not be that important to nature overall, but is very important to the individual humans themselves.

    Again, the problem is complex. I love wolves, I spent a summer 20 years ago studying them in northern Minnesota, and I don't like aerial hunting per se, but I think that the issue involves more than just mindless hatred for those who view the issue differently than we do. In any case, wolf populations are not threatened in Alaska by the small amount of hunting that is allowed there, and to pretend that they are is disingenuous on our part.  

    Parent

    There is no issue about starving (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:19:02 PM EST
    people because of wolves.....

    The only reason wolves exist in the lower 48 is because of environmental groups....I trust their research more than industry backed groups--and hunting has become an industry....

    Parent

    Which has nothing to do with (none / 0) (#49)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:37:25 PM EST
    aerial wolf hunting in Alaska. My point, again, is that you posted incorrect information about wolves. My latest link was to an environmental group. It contradicts what you posted.  

    Parent
    Well, the re-introduction of wolves (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    in Yellowstone is why there are wolves in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana.....Yellowstone is located in those three states and sure wolves have gone outside the boundaries of the Park....

    The migration of wolves from Canada into Montana I doubt is the explanation for the numbers of wolves in those three states today....

    I am glad there are wolves that have come down from Canada......into the Great Lakes states....

    And, aerial hunting, are you fine with just stating it's complicated?

       

    Parent

    I already said that I personally don't (none / 0) (#51)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 05:07:02 PM EST
    like aerial hunting. But I also think is more complex than simply bad "rich hunters". I'm in the big city now but I've lived in rural areas where people hunt prey species  in order to put food on the table, and although I don't think that aerial hunting is necessarily the answer, I don't think that crying "rich hunters" adds to the discussion much.

    And you're wrong again on Yellowstone being the only reason there are wolves in Montana and Idaho. If you look at the maps I linked to from Defenders of Wildlife you can see that the range of wolves extends from Canada through much of western Montana and northern Idaho, and a corner of Wyoming. The reintroduction of wolves in those areas involved much more than just the Yellowstone reintroduction.  The Endangered Species Act, which in the 1970's gave the wolves the protection they needed in Montana to re-establish  populations. There were 48 wolves in Montana's Glacier National Park a year before the human re-introduction of wolves into Yellowstone. Human engineered re-introductions also occurred during this time in central Idaho.

    Although wolf packs were eliminated from Montana by the 1930s, tracks, scats, and/or observations of large canid-like animals were either reported or killed up until the 1970s. Most are thought to have been dispersers from Canada and little to no successful breeding activity was evidenced or sustained consistently through time.

    In 1980, the Northern Rocky Mountain Wolf Recovery Team completed a plan which would guide wolf recovery efforts for a future wolf population in the northern Rockies of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. The recovery plan was revised in 1987. The plan designated three recovery areas - Northwestern Montana, Central Idaho, and the Greater Yellowstone - each of which included some portion of Montana.

    Wolves from Canada began to colonize the Glacier National Park area in 1979, and the first wolf den in the western U.S. in over 50 years was documented there in 1986. The wolf population in northwest Montana grew as a result of natural reproduction and dispersal. By the end of 1994, there were about 48 wolves in and around Glacier National Park.

    In 1995, three family groups (a total of 14 wolves) were captured near Alberta's Jasper National Park, transported to Yellowstone National Park, and placed in acclimation pens. They were held for 10 weeks prior to release. Two of the females subsequently denned and produced nine pups in Montana. Most settled in the same vicinity of their acclimation pens, demonstrating the potental advantages of a "soft" release technique.

    Also in the winter of 1995, 15 wolves were reintroduced into the wilderness areas of central Idaho. These animals moved widely throughout central Idaho and beyond. Many of these wolves moved north, some to the upper Bitterroot Valley. In 1996, three packs produced 11 pups.

    In the winter of 1996, 17 wolves were captured near Fort St. Johns, British Columbia, Canada and were again released into acclimation pens in Yellowstone National Park through a "soft" release. Twenty wolves were released in central Idaho as a "hard" release.

    Wolf populations in Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho grew rapidly and soon became a source for dispersers to Montana. New packs formed outside the earliest core wolf areas and overall wolf distribution expanded. Wolf dispersal has been documented between and among all three federal recovery areas and the states comprising the northern Rockies. By the end of 2002, the northern Rockies wolf population met the biological recovery criteria of at least 30 breeding pairs in the northern Rockies for three years in a row. By the end of 2004, there was an estimated 835 wolves and 66 breeding pairs in the tri-state area. In Montana, there were about 153 wolves in 15 breeding pairs.



    Link

    and from the same link:


    Many people were also concerned about big game populations and hunting opportunity as a result of wolf recovery. Wolves do have the potential to impact populations of deer, elk, and moose. How much of an impact varies in space and through time and most importantly, it varies with other environmental factors such as drought, severe winter, overall carnivore density, or general habitat conditions.

    Research in Montana and elsewhere has shown that predation in general may influence deer, elk and moose populations through changes in survival of young, death of adult animals, or a combination of both. Wolf recovery probably will affect hunter opportunity in some areas and not in others. As for other populations whose numbers fluctuate, there is no clear answer except that wolves will add another factor to consider among all the environmental and social factors wildlife biologists wrestle with every year when setting big game regulations. Hunting opportunities are then adjusted in response to all factors combined.



    Parent
    i'll agree in that (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Turkana on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:02:44 PM EST
    i think it's a stupid ad. it might appeal to people like me who don't own guns and eat no mammals, but it's not going to appeal to swing voters in swing states, who do own guns and do eat mammals. got dow some publicity, though...

    I like the ad very much (2.00 / 0) (#28)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 01:24:37 AM EST
    And it is a valid issue.

    The people in Alaska are not of all one opinion on this issue....They have twice voted in favor of initiatives banning aerial hunting, but did vote down such an initiative a couple of weeks ago....

    A lot of hunters are offended by aerial hunting--you chase down your prey in an airplane and then shoot them point blank against a white background of snow in winter.  That is not hunting.....the tradition of which involves ritual, tracking and respect for the animal....The greater the advantage to the hunter, the less respect....Bow hunters being deemed the most authentic....

    Bruce Babbitt, who was Bill Clinton's Secretary of the Interior, had as his signature accomplishment the re-introduction of wolves to Yellowstone, wolves being previously absent from the lower 48.....Babbit had been on the short list for the Supreme Court but the environmentalists insisted he be put in charge of the Interior Department because they so respected him.

    The aerial hunting of wolves to ensure a larger herd of sick elk and other animals for rich hunters to kill is sick.....

    It is a very good ad.....Those offended by it won't vote for Obama anyway.  Many swing voters will remember this ad....and the practice has to stop....Wolves were virtually extinct from the lower 48 at one time, and the hunting of wolves--and bears--this way does not bode well for their future survival....

    Parent

    I think it would be a good idea (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 03:02:13 AM EST
     for you to get more informed about this issue before making statements that are not fully researched on your part.

    Parent
    I have done a fair amount already (none / 0) (#44)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 11:26:07 AM EST
    and the research you posted was not really on point....

    Parent
    But you incorrectly (none / 0) (#46)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 01:07:24 PM EST
    stated that wolves only exist in Yellowstone in the lower 48 and that is not true. And you seem to think that the only place they exist in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming is within the borders of Yellowstone when in fact they roam over two thirds of Idaho and a third of Montana, and well outside the Yellowstone boundary in Wyoming. They also exist in several other states besides those three and are slowly expanding their range through several more. There are also efforts to reintroduce them in several other states. And in any case the wolf populations in Alaska are much larger and not endangered in Alaska even with the limited aerial hunting there. As I said, the question of aerial hunting is complex, but it doesn't help to pass on wrong information, which is what you did. That is my point.  

    Parent
    Huh? (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by lambert on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:04:22 PM EST
    Tier Two == Obama with plausible deniability -- just like any other 527. Standard Operating Procedure.

    It is sexist to hold her to a higher standard. (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:48:32 AM EST
    or to treat her any differently because of her gender.

    Also sexist to hold her to a LOWER standard (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by steviez314 on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 06:26:42 AM EST
    No it is only stupid (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 09:16:22 AM EST
    since it most certainly is a campaign issue that Democrats would nominate someone for president with credentials for the post falling somewhere between slim and none in a lot of people's opinion.  I do believe that BTD has pointed that out numerous times but nobody wants to listen and who is leading in the polls now?  


    It's probably Al being inconsistent (none / 0) (#8)
    by andgarden on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 10:00:06 PM EST


    It all depends on what the media does, (none / 0) (#23)
    by WillBFair on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 11:38:06 PM EST
    and it looks like they're in the second part of bait and switch. They kissed up to Obama to get the Clintons out of the way. Now they'll start smooching on McCain and Palin.
    As my cousin says, the American people are cattle. They'll go whichever way the media herds them