FBI Involved in Domestic Spying in the Twin Cities

By TChris, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:24:16 PM EST
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TalkLeft recently called attention to the preemptive strike that the Ramsey County Sheriff's Department has launched against protesters at the (now downsized) Republican National Convention. Glenn Greenwald has a noteworthy post arguing that it is "increasingly clear that it is the Federal Government that is directing this intimidation campaign." The "anti-terrorist" tactics include spying upon, and even infiltrating, "dangerous" groups of vegans and peace-promoters.

So here we have a massive assault led by Federal Government law enforcement agencies on left-wing dissidents and protesters who have committed no acts of violence or illegality whatsoever, preceded by months-long espionage efforts to track what they do. And as extraordinary as that conduct is, more extraordinary is the fact that they have received virtually no attention from the national media and little outcry from anyone.

Take a minute to read what Greenwald has to say.

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FBI Involved in Domestic Spying in the Twin Cities | 21 comments (21 topical)

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Interesting that no one has posted to this thread (5.00 / 5) (#1)
by rdandrea on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:09:41 PM EST

Yet we're all obsessed about Sarah Palin. I think this is far more important.

I'm not an attorney, so maybe I'm sort of ignorant about the domestic spying stuff. But the thing that has most worried me all along about the domestic spying program is that it has always seemed less valuable as a tool in the so-called "war on terror" than as a tool to stifle political dissent.

It looks like we're about there.

Agreement versus disagreement (none / 0) (#7)
by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:31:52 PM EST

I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who posts/comments to TL is vehemently opposed to the government doing this kind of thing, so there's not a whole lot to discuss, other than, "Oh, my yes. Terrible. Terrible. Shame on them." And then what?

I VERY much appreciate TChris and Jeralyn highlighting these things, and if one could rate posts as well as comments, I'd give these a 5 for value to me.

Palin, OTOH, we not only don't know that much about but have very different feelings about, both as a politician and a political strategy by McCain, not to mention the appropriate response to her selection by the O campaign. So there's lots to argue about and discuss, lots of new info to share as it comes out.

We're all still thrashing out our opinions on Palin. There's no opinion to thrash out on the suppression of demonstrators at the R convention. We're united on that subject.


: And in the naked light I saw (none / 0) (#20)
by Edger on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 03:47:36 AM EST

Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
"Fools", said I, "You do not know"
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed
In the wells of silence

Both are important (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:14:31 PM EST

you will have more warrantless domestic spying under a McCain/Republican administration than a Democratic one. So getting the Republicans out in November is at the top of my list.

I appreciate TChris following up on this as it is important.

: Chris Coleman, Democratic mayor ... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Andreas on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:03:48 PM EST

... supports the raids and all of the well-known leaders of the Democratic Party are silent.
So do not tell us that the Democrats are different. It is not true.

: Every President would want this kind of power (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by FreakyBeaky on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:48:37 PM EST

and no President should have it. Reining in domestic spying is up to Congress and the courts. I expect no gifts from the executive branch on this matter regardless of who the President is.
That said, I think that headway on this issue is more likely to be made against an Obama administration than a McCain administration if only because a successful Obama presidency would depend in part on the support of those opposed to domestic spying. A McCain presidency, not so much, or should I say quite the opposite.

Infiltrating Vegans???!!! (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:15:43 PM EST

God knows Vegans are dangerous to our 'merican way of life.

they want to catch them (5.00 / 3) (#6)
by Jen M on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:29:13 PM EST

eating fish?


Enviro and Animal groups are (none / 0) (#9)
by nycstray on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:08:24 PM EST

terrorists, didntcha know? I'm pretty sure that law passed. . . .


some are (none / 0) (#10)
by Jen M on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:25:21 PM EST

Scientists are being firebombed in California.

Terrorists do like to play with things that go "boom." (although I would call the guys that did this criminals instead of terrorists)


: Yup. Criminals and we already have (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by nycstray on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:33:17 PM EST

laws. Iirc, the problem with the labeling of some of the groups and the law, non-radical groups/individuals can get screwed over by it. It was in some of the wording. Protect those puppymills at all costs!

Shortly after the inauguration (none / 0) (#16)
by litigatormom on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:14:54 PM EST

of President McCain and VP Palin, the Constitution will be amended to require all citizens to eat meat. Especially mooseburgers.


"spying" only ? (5.00 / 2) (#4)
by Andreas on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:16:03 PM EST

One would be very naive to assume that the government agents is only "spying" on the protesters.

Unless they have abandoned (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:26:34 PM EST

past practices entirely, they will have agents provocateurs infiltrated to deliberately cause trouble. I hope the new generation of protesters are as aware of this possibility as we learned to be in the '60s. They are very dangerous and usually very hard to spot.


: Absolutely! I wish people would realize this (none / 0) (#19)
by splashy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 02:08:08 AM EST

Instead of pointing to "protesters" that are violent, assuming that is how people that are protesting behave.
Most of the violent ones are there (and likely paid) to cause trouble so the police have an excuse to crack down on the protesters. Rarely do the real protesters want to be gassed and they don't want violence.
People seem to fall for that because they are afraid of people rocking the boat - actually standing up against the authoritarians. People want everything to be all hunky dory, and to be able to believe the authorities when they say it's just a bunch of unhappy troublemakers that don't know how good they have it. They don't want to believe the "authorities" are only into power, control and will do anything to keep it. They want to believe the authorities have their best interests at heart.
It's amazing how much some people trust those that have taken over power and wealth.

It seems odd to me (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by akaEloise on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 07:00:58 PM EST

as a native of Saint Paul, that the Ramsey County Sheriff is taking the lead on this, rather than the Saint Paul police department. Saint Paul is in Ramsey County, but normally the sheriff's office was more involved in keeping peace and order in the suburbs, and left the city police to deal with issues in the city limits. My closest encounter with the sheriffs' office was when I was in high school, we were living in the suburbs, and my mom called the sheriff to report that a bat had taken up residence on the cathedral ceiling of our living room, and asked for advice. The deputy who showed up took his gun out of the holster and proposed to shoot the bat down. It seems like the same good level of judgment is operating today, except that my mom is no longer around to yell "Don't do that, you idiot!".

Just an extension of the FISA bounce. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Jake Left on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:13:31 PM EST

Whatever they do, whoever they arrest, however they go beyond what used to be American laws --- our congress and both candidates will just make it legal.

The example set by Congress's act in the new FISA bill was like giving the fascist-side of our government tacit permission to go with their lower instincts.

Perhaps the Twin Cities (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by litigatormom on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:15:52 PM EST

have gotten a few tips from the Chinese government, who arrested most of the people who applied for a permit to protest during the Beijing Olympics.

Let's also remember... (none / 0) (#13)
by Dadler on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:00:29 PM EST

...we live in a time WHEN PEOPLE WEARING THE WRONG T-SHIRT GET ARRESSTED at political rallies -- although, thankfully, the feds were forced to pay to make a lawsuit by the arrested party go away.

One step forward, two steps back, all the way to the brink.

I've been in downtown St. Paul all day, solo (none / 0) (#18)
by Ben Masel on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 12:18:45 AM EST

flying signs reading "Stop Government Spying" and "This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System."

Pretty much unmolested by law enforcement. Conclusion: It's not so much freedom of speech that's under attack, as freedom of assembly.

Yesterday, (none / 0) (#21)
by Iphie on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 09:26:14 AM EST

the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC had more about the "preemptive" raid in St. Paul, including an interview with Eileen Clancy who was one of the people in the house. She managed to get an email sent off to a small list prior to the police taking over the house.

The interview starts right at the top of the 2nd hour.