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By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:30:58 PM EST
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    Obama backs away from debate challenge (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:48:33 PM EST
    Honestly, is there anything this guy will keep his word on?

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democratic candidate Barack Obama on Saturday backed away from rival John McCain's challenge for a series of joint appearances, agreeing only to the standard three debates in the fall.

    In May, when a McCain adviser proposed a series of pre-convention appearances at town hall meetings, Obama said, "I think that's a great idea." In summer stumping on the campaign trail, McCain has often noted that Obama had not followed through and joined him in any events.

    On Saturday, in a letter to the Commission on Presidential Debates, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said the short period between the last political convention and the first proposed debate made it likely that the commission-sponsored debates would be the only ones.

    LINK

    *headdesk* (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by janarchy on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:57:05 PM EST
    You know for someone who supposedly is such a rock star and superawesomeinspiringguy, you'd think he'd WANT to do this sort of things just so he could prove how much better he is that McCain. Unfortunately, he's proving he's not unlike Dubya in that he will only show up under tightly controlled circumstances which favor him and show him in the most optimal light without anyone else to compare and contrast with.

    How sad is it that he's afraid to be shown up by John McCain? Were I a Republican, that would be one of the first things I'd want to get out to the voting public: that he thinks he's a rockstar and will strut around to adoring crowds, but he hasn't got the b@lls to show his face around a real war veteran/former prisoner of war/senator of several decades with an actual resume etc. (Not that I think this is the truth, just that perception is everything).

    Parent

    So much for (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by pie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:04:18 PM EST
    the slam dunk dem victory in November.

    You-know-who would have been there with bells on.

    Parent

    And that would have been fun to watch... (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:48:15 PM EST
    Once again, the DNC has denied us one of the small pleasures in life.  

    Parent
    He's not a debater. Too many ummms and uhhhhs (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    and ahhhs.  And he won't have Hillary going first so he can say "What Hillary said."  

    Parent
    How to win voters (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by pie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:02:53 PM EST
    and influence people.  

    Is it safe up here, btw?  His usual supporters are down there telling us how awful we are because we won't drink the kool-aid.  

    Yawn.

    Parent

    No, it is about (none / 0) (#26)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:33:25 PM EST
    not drinking from the well of ODS....

     

    Parent

    That's one dry well. (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by pie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 07:45:45 PM EST
    He was my second to the last choice in the primaries.

    He certainly never moved up once he became the one of two.

    You bore me with your cheerleading.

    Parent

    Obama Disappointment Syndrome (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 08:03:12 PM EST
    is a well which will not run dry any time soon.

    Parent
    Some of us have (none / 0) (#59)
    by samanthasmom on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 08:12:03 PM EST
    fallen into the "disappointment well" and have no rope or ladder to use to crawl out. The well just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

    Parent
    I Once Thought That (none / 0) (#67)
    by daring grace on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:20:40 AM EST
    about Clinton Disappointment Syndrome when I enthusiastically supported her in her first senate campaign and then...plop! as she turned into something else in office.

    But the well does dwindle and dry up eventually and you get (shudder) pragmatic about the landscape and now I find--even after a bruising primary season--I could vote for her as nominee or veep nominee.

    Hang in there. If you truly want an end to the repressive do-nothing Bush Cheney era, you'll find your way.

    Parent

    Didn't He Say (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:05:59 PM EST
    At one time that the reason he didn't want to debate Hillary anymore (after PA) during the Primaries was because he would rather wait to debate his Republican opponent?

    Geez, he's really turning out to be a [alternative word for a cat].

    I guess he's just asking for the next round of McCain ads to portray him as an inadequate nominee for the job who is too afraid to talk about the issues that Americans care about, and would rather expand on his "Celebrity" rockstar image as "The One."

    And now, he seriously would deserve it.

    Parent

    Exactly. After he came out of the PA (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:17:30 PM EST
    debate not looking so swell, he said no more debates with Hillary. Now, he would be debating McCain. Anytime, anywhere. Part of the marginalize Hillary, declare myself the nominee strategy. The nominee part happened-the debate McCain part not so much.

    Parent
    ...wasn't it a scheduled (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:26:06 PM EST
    debate in NC he cancelled?  Yup, he did.

    Don't remember if any more debates were in the works, but I think it did look bad on him to just bail.

    Ah, I remember how the Obama supporters applauded his decision.  Of course they applauded almost everything Obama did and WORMed everything else.  I bet Obama longs for the good old days when the media followed him everywhere and broke into scheduled programs to carry his appearances LIVE!  Those were the days.  

    Parent

    obama's glory days seem to be waning... (none / 0) (#54)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 06:18:39 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:31:02 PM EST
    If you are going to bash Obama, a link would help your cause....

    I do not recall Obama saying he did not want to debate Hillary anymore (after 22 some odd debates) because he wanted to debate McCain.....

    Parent

    I remember what he is saying. (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:32:46 PM EST
    Do you put a link in every one of YOUR comments? no.


    Parent
    Mine are accurate (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:36:10 PM EST
    Have you ever said anything postive Obama?  Once?

    Not seeking across-the-board support....Just a little objectivity....Your recollection is so colored by bias....

    Parent

    Mine are accurater, so there! (2.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:40:44 PM EST
    Want a link for that?

    Parent
    I guess not--not one comment (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:47:57 PM EST
    saying anything supportive of Obama--complete, total bias....

    Parent
    MKS....As I recall the site rules do not say we (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 04:11:14 PM EST
    HAVE to say complimentary things about obama.  If you disagree with what someone says, you can downrate if you like if it offends so.  You are clearly an obama supporter, many of us aren't, so we have to agree to disagree.

    Parent
    Obama is soooo sexy! (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:29:42 PM EST
    There - that "positive" enough for you?

    I can pick a different part of Obama's anatomy to gush over in a daily series, if you like.  Or perhaps you'd prefer me to talk up the advantages of bipartisan politics.

    Parent

    He said there would be no more debates (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by tree on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 07:01:24 PM EST
    with Clinton after he got his clock cleaned on ABC in mid April. And on May 16th he said he'd debate McCain "anywhere, anytime". I also remember him saying that he wasn't debating Clinton because he had already pivoted to McCain but can't find an exact link. I guess if it isn't easily findable on the internet, then it didn't happen, eh? If a tree falls in the forest, and you can't Google it, did it really fall?

    Here's Obama's "anywhere, anytime" speech for the link fanatics.

    Parent

    Google is your friend. (2.00 / 1) (#31)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:38:01 PM EST
    I'm not your monkey, so search it yourself.

    Two other posters distinctly remember it too.

    If you choose to have selective hearing and memory, it's your loss.

    Parent

    Google is My Friend (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:50:12 PM EST
    And a simple, cursory search shows me that invitations to debate a certain number of times in certain formats wax and wane between both campaigns depending on where we are in the election cycle.

    For example: McCain rejected an Obama call for 5 debates in the Fall back in June:

    NY Times Politics Blog

    "David Plouffe, the Obama campaign manager, slammed Mr. McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, on Friday for declining to meet Mr. Obama in five joint appearances, which Mr. Plouffe said "would have been the most of any presidential campaign in the modern era.""

    McCain countered with another proposal Obama rejected. Blah, blah, blah.

    To me, it's kind of a big ho hum, whatever...

    Parent

    Didn't Obama offer July 4th (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:59:31 PM EST
    as a potential date?  I seem to recall he offered to do debates/town halls on strange dates...  

    Parent
    well obama ran away from further debates (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by hellothere on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:08:24 PM EST
    with hillary. so what's different? not much! you can only do so many victory laps.

    Parent
    Well, you know, of course, (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:28:55 PM EST
    who is head of the Washington Bureau of the AP?  The guy who sent unsolicited e-mails to Rove telling him to keep up with the "good fight?"  The same guy who has his head so far up McCain's....., that he sent e-mails talking about bringing McCain his favorite kind of donuts with sprinkles before a press conference.  The same guy who wants the AP to drop its objective tone and become more opionated.

    You have heard of McCain toady Ron Fournier, haven't you?

    The real news was that Obama has accepted the Debate Commission's proposal to conduct three Presidential and one Vice Presidential debate--and McCain has not accepted.

     

    Parent

    Damn.. so many posts this afternoon. (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:18:42 PM EST
    I was about to go away and be productive, but now..

    MarkL....better get started on those links, (none / 0) (#45)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    now that the new rulz require links for everything we post...lol

    Parent
    Say wha? What new rules? Checked comment policy (none / 0) (#51)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:26:49 PM EST
    and didn't notice anything new.

    T/U.

    Parent

    Does anyone know of a site... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by EL seattle on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:35:42 PM EST
    ... that has transcripts of the presentations and Q&A for the Urban League event this weekend?

    McCain was there on Friday, and Obama was there yesterday.  Since it may be a while before we get a head-to-head debate, it would be nice to see how each one handled the same questions (if the questions were asked to both candidates) in person.

    I think c-span.org has them. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by TheJoker on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:36:48 PM EST


    Parent
    A MUST SEE (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 04:24:54 PM EST
    Link

    Just click on PLAY, move your cursor out of the way and enjoy the show.

    Artist said it took him nearly 3 months to create.

    Holy crap (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 04:47:46 PM EST
    That is totally amazing.

    Parent
    Thanks! (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:15:15 PM EST
    That's too funny.

    Parent
    But Obama makes nice with R's over more drilling! (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:29:06 PM EST
    Or is it making nice with Big Bizness?

    A real progressive coulda been a contender this year, but, alas.... Check out this post at Firedog Lake--lots of good links, lots of bad news.

    Time is either getting extremely short or has already run out for holding our global warming to levels which will make life tolerable--and livable on Earth.

    If your oldest child is seven, the window slams shut before he or she will be old enough for a driver's license. If your first grandchild was born this year, cherish your posterity: that grandchild's likely to be the last of your line. Unless....unless we force action now and over the next 100 months.

    What will today's infants say about us when they grow up to face what we leave them?

    No Quarter has a hell of a claim in their (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:47:59 PM EST
    top story now. You might want to check it out.
    If this is true, the fur is gonna fly.... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 10:47:02 PM EST


    Parent
    Gergen on Stephanopoulos? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:40:17 PM EST
    Anyone see him make a big pitch for Hillary as VP?  Donna almost had a cardiac arrest.  Then Gergen brought up the example of Reagan choosing Bush to bring the party together even though he did not want to.  I wonder what you guys think of all that...?

    He's been talking her up all week. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:55:02 PM EST
    He's irritating me. She's a person-not a cog in the machine. Guess it's a good thing I'm not in politics.

    Parent
    Ummm.....I love Hillary but I don't want her near (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:56:25 PM EST
    Obama at this point.  And I still believe that an Obama/Clinton ticket is unbalanced.

    Parent
    personal opinion here. i think the obama (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by hellothere on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:05:37 PM EST
    campaign and their important advisors and contributors will not allow for hillary to be on the ticket.

    Parent
    I Didn't Watch It (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:58:06 PM EST
    (as I have a pretty serious reaction to him, Brazille, or anyone else of their ilk, who sanctimoniously pretends to care for Hillary now).

    But yours is one of several posts now that I've read about Gergen pushing for the Unity ticket.

    I do not think he was in favor of it during the Primaries, and in fact, I believe he even argued against it. He was extremely vile and outright in his hatred for Hillary Clinton, so this about-turn strikes me as extremely odd.

    So why now? As a veteran official of several presidential administrations with the smarts to read the political tea-leaves, I BET he's seeing the writing on the wall ...

    Obama's slipping and is destined to lose in November, unless Hillary hoists him over her shoulders and carries him across the finish line.

    Yet again, he expects Hillary to roll up her sleeves and "do the right thing." To me, he among many in the political media landscape is the epitome of a slithery slimeball.

    Parent

    Gergen & Hillary hate? (3.66 / 3) (#20)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:15:46 PM EST
    Not at all.  He came to her defense on NAFTA saying he heard her at the time state opposition to it.

    Gergen as a Hillary hater?  There is no evidence of that.....

    An interesting dynamic has resulted:  anyone who likes Obama is a Hillary hater by definition.....

    ODS in full bloom.....And, so shortsighted.  It is truly stunning to see so called liberals and progressives hoping for a McCain victory.

    Parent

    Obviously... (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:34:33 PM EST
    You didn't watch Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN on Primary nights (and most other nights) when Gergen was often a member of the pathetic panels that Cooper assembled.

    His defense of Hillary on NAFTA isn't noteworthy at all. Several other Clinton Administration aides and Hillary's own staff during those years defended her.

    Gergen had no choice but to chime in. He probably got a slap on the wrist to tone the hatred down, and that was an opportune time for him to switch it up.

    He slammed her repeatedly for every warranted (and yes, unwarranted) criticism of Obama and even dared to say that all of her supporters in WV and KY are racists and she should reject their support.

    And if you needed any proof to question his objectivity, he even came close to tears (I swear) in defending Obama during the height of the Jeremiah Wright and "bitter" debacles.

    Parent

    You actually prove my point (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:46:06 PM EST
    You say:

    And if you needed any proof to question his objectivity, he even came close to tears (I swear) in defending Obama during the height of the Jeremiah Wright and "bitter" debacles.

    Setting aside for a moment that the traditionalist Gergen would come to tears on TV, what you are saying is that you cannot stand Gergen because he supports Obama....Nice....

    I said above that for those who suffer ODS, support for Obama=Hillary hate....Your comment proves exactly that.  

    Parent

    Believe me, Obama would attract (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 03:00:33 PM EST
    tepid enthusiasm from me---at BEST---if he had not besmirched himself with his character assassination of Hillary during the primaries.
    Objectively, Obama's political skills are little different from the weaker Democratic candidates of the last few decades: Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, Kerry.
    The sole area in which he excels is organization, and this has propped him over the top. It may be enough for him to win in November. But his ability to DEFTLY maneuver is quite poor. He clunks from one position to the opposite like a lumbering elephant, and then has the audacity to hope that people will believe him when he says he hasn't changed at all.
    He really is quite a mediocre politician.

    Anyway, this discussion seems rather pointless to   me. I understand that many people admire Obama. That's fine. You should accept that Hillary has very little to do with the lack of enthusiasm so many of us have for Obama.

    Parent

    To be fair, he does write more (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 03:06:31 PM EST
    effective speeches than some of those candidates; however, giving a good speech has to go with the ability to speak off the cuff well, which Obama cannot do. His worst fault though, IMO, is his fluttering inconsistency.

    Parent
    The irony of the Gergen (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 03:27:54 PM EST
    comments is that he is trying to get Hillary on the ticket.....

    And, his reward?  He is, without basis, called a Hillary hater...

    I will say that I agree with Gergen on this....I thought it was not possible until I saw them campaign together in late June.  And you guys fight even that....

     

    Parent

    I watched CNN on primary nights (3.00 / 4) (#32)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:40:29 PM EST
    I think you remember things in a very "particular" way....

    Can you give me one comment, even without a link, of what Gergen actually said that showed Hillary hate, rather than your hazey, biased diatribe?

    Gergen was a close Clinton aide during the White House for Pete's sake....

     

    Parent

    Again, Go Search It Yourself (1.00 / 1) (#37)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:49:40 PM EST
    And do not reply to my posts EVER AGAIN if you're going to insult me and can't be bothered to back your arguments.

    If BTD has the right to set such a rule, posters should too.

    Gergen was a close Clinton aide during the White House for Pete's sake....

    Do you really think you're the only informed person on this board? Hence, that is why I said "He had no choice but to chime in," because he was a Clinton Admin. official too.

    Parent

    How about a paraphrase (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:54:37 PM EST
    of what Gergen said that showed Hillary hate?

    I asked you for a specific statement, even without a link, and you still haven't responded.....

    How about a paraphrase?  I'll give up asking for a specific statement or a link....Or, is it just all accepted folklore, urban legend....

    Parent

    And we can see there is no bias on the (none / 0) (#46)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 04:14:50 PM EST
    pro-obama side... :)

    Parent
    Gergen was one of the first (none / 0) (#58)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 08:04:37 PM EST
    to say in late February that Hillary really had a shot by being the fighter....He saw ahead of many that Hillary had a real chance as Norma Rae.

    There is nothing that I have seen or heard, or indeed any rumors, that Gergen had any Hillary hate at all.....

    Parent

    What's stunning (none / 0) (#66)
    by echinopsia on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 11:51:07 PM EST
    is liberals and progressives thinking an Obama victory would be a victory for progressivism.

    Parent
    isn't part of it that the media players (2.00 / 0) (#16)
    by MarkL on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:07:10 PM EST
    prefer a close race? Gergen may not care who wins, but if McCain beats Obama in a blowout, the election will have little interest for the public.

    Parent
    I think he is right (none / 0) (#3)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:45:23 PM EST
    and I beginning think Obama will.

    Parent
    Gergen has become a realist and sees (none / 0) (#63)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 10:36:49 PM EST
    the writing on the wall...obama is in trouble.

    Parent
    Air Force One (none / 0) (#4)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:46:05 PM EST
    So, I spent about the last 40 minutes or so watching this National Geographic Society special documentary about the "Flying White House."

    It looks at so many aspects of this awesome aircraft and the work that goes into preparing the plane for a Presidential trip, its history, and the people whose jobs and lives revolve around it.

    Here's Part 1 of the 6-part video on YouTube. You can find all 6 parts here.

    The documentary follows President Bill Clinton on one of his final trips on Air Force One in 2000 to California and New Mexico. It also features interviews with Presidents Clinton, Bush I, Bush II and Carter, various officials and Air Force One personnel.

    A really interesting and well-produced program that offers insight into the plane most mere mortals like us would never see.

    i have seen it. the part i found most (none / 0) (#17)
    by hellothere on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:07:29 PM EST
    interesting in an historical sense is the part about the trip back to texas after the death of jfk.

    Parent
    She needs to get a grip. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:01:55 PM EST
    Mr. Darcy? Uh-uh. She needs to work on her issues or stop writing or ? She is an embarassment to women.

    Pelosi suggests House Rep. for VP (none / 0) (#62)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 10:29:10 PM EST
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is behind a dark horse in the Democratic veepstakes: Rep. Chet Edwards of Texas.
    "I hope he will be the nominee," Pelosi said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."

    AP report.

    I know nothing about him, and Wiki has little about his positions. Represents BushBoy's Waco area!

    Three weeks to decide (none / 0) (#65)
    by waldenpond on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 10:52:39 PM EST
    Doesn't anyone find it odd that new names are still being peddled at this late date?  Seems there isn't much time for a first vetting let alone an in depth one.

    Why Edwards?   [because she wanted the House Democratic Caucus to be represented in the ongoing speculation about Obama's November running mate.]    Just because. ha.

    Boehner, on the other hand, keeps his lips zipped. CQPolitics  This article seems to make Pelosi look like a high school gossip.


    Parent

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