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Live-Blogging Joe Biden

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:32:13 PM EST
Tags: Joe Biden (all tags)
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I'm back home and Joe Biden is about to speak. His son, Attorney General of Delaware, Beau Biden, just gave a rousing speech for him.

Thoughts and updates below.

Update: Biden's family seems very nice.

The best part was when he finished and Barack Obama came out. Obama looked really happy and relaxed.

I think Michelle Obama is Biden's biggest fan.

Your turn.

< Wednesday Night Convention Open Thread 2 | Late Night: Sunset Grill (A Thank You to CNN) >

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    Live-Blogging Joe Biden | 193 comments (193 topical)
    Starting with his son's speech, (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andrys on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:38:27 PM EST
    my eyes have not been dry.  

    And his mother !

    Fantastic.

    Joe is doing a great job (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by catfish on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:48:17 PM EST
    a few stumbles, but he's got heart. Tonight is much more energetic than last night.

    I know it's a minority opinion (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:51:14 PM EST
    But I try to be consistent too.

    I like Biden.

    The one highlight from the primary was when all of them were asked a question, and I don't even remember what question, and they all gave really long answers hogging time, making speeches and then it got to Biden and he said "yes," everyone waited for him to be Biden and keep going and then the joke hit and it was, for me anyway, a priceless moment.  it made me feel like all of these adversaries were for once all in on the same joke and having a good time.

    he loves to hear himself talk but he knows that and will take shots at himself.

    what I have read about him, he, like Clark has taught me a good bit about soft power and how even moreso during the cold war, soft power will be the singular tool of warfare against terrorists, if not the only tool.  american jurisprudence might not be better off with Biden as VP, but I am sure American foriegn policy will be better off with Biden as VP.

    now the only thing I will continue to speak out against is the personal attacks I've seen on Biden on Obamablogs..

    everything from teeth to hair plugs to neo-con, to whatever else they felt they had to come up with because it's the only way they know how to communicate.

    Yeah, Biden's kinda great. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Pegasus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:53:44 PM EST
    I like him quite a bit.  Heck of an attack dog, too; the "John McCain was wrong, and Barack Obama was right" litany was really good.

    [ Parent ]
    If he's talking about the AUMF (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:57:02 PM EST
    He's gonna get hit on that during the debates.  

    He'll either have to walk back his "good idea/bad execution" arguments or, well, I don't know what he'll do.

    We'll find out.  I hope he doesn't backtrack on those arguments.  I, another very very minority opinion, agree with those arguments.


    [ Parent ]

    Well, he could always say (none / 0) (#69)
    by Pegasus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:12:18 PM EST
    "I was wrong, too, but Barack was right" re: the AUMF.  I doubt he will, but it's a viable answer (and the right one, IMO at least).

    Fair point, though.

    [ Parent ]

    Then he'll be walking back everything (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:14:41 PM EST
    he said up 'til 2006.

    If he's changed his opinion since, I missed it.


    [ Parent ]

    True, it's not a much better tactic (none / 0) (#96)
    by Pegasus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:21:43 PM EST
    then what he'd have to do by not walking back on it.

    At any rate, I don't think that one example precludes them from using the general line of argument.  Makes it a bit of a headache, but IMO a worthwhile headache.

    [ Parent ]

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:25:11 PM EST
    I always thought "Republicans screw up everything they try to do, and Dems make things work" was good branding but I can tell you I lost that argument a very very long time ago.


    [ Parent ]
    Better formulation: (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:28:14 PM EST
    "Republicans make mistakes; Democrats make history."

    Short, sweet, and to-the-point.

    [ Parent ]

    They asked (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:34:50 PM EST
    if given his reputation for wordiness, Biden could manage to control his mouth.

    His answer: "Yes."  You're right, it was really good.

    [ Parent ]

    Why are the Obamablogs (none / 0) (#52)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:06:20 PM EST
    crapping on Biden? Obama picked him.  Who did they want?

    [ Parent ]
    Not anymore (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:08:08 PM EST
    Cause they're inconsistent.

    Warning.  

    Orange link.

    [ Parent ]

    They are? (none / 0) (#60)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:08:44 PM EST
    I guess its true they wanted Sebelius.

    [ Parent ]
    Sebelius Contraindications (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:30 PM EST
    Warning: do not listen to Sebelius if you have ingested alcohol or sedatives.  Do not operate heavy machinery while or after listening to Sebelius. Sebelius has been known to induce nausea, dizziness and diarrhea. Do not listen to Sebelius if you have firing neurons. Consult your doctor before listening to Sebelius if you have a family history of stroke or catatonia. Some patients with depression have developed suicidal thoughts after listening to Sibelius. Most patients stopped listening to Sibelius after developing these or other symptoms.

    [ Parent ]
    He seems okay but... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:51:19 PM EST
    ..but I'm getting tired. He sure is going after McCain though.

    Biden's speech is very strong (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    It almost makes me forget how awful Kerry's was.

    Ha - very true (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:55:16 PM EST
    He was good.  I liked it. i like the ticket better now, which is what is important.

    [ Parent ]
    Kerry's speech was poor on delivery (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:58:06 PM EST
    but the content was spot-on.

    [ Parent ]
    He's been giving the same speech for 5 years (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:03:20 PM EST
    He ought to have it down by now.

    [ Parent ]
    too funny (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:16:50 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    But MADDOW LOVED IT (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:34:56 PM EST
    you know....the old
    "Yea Clinton was OK but KERRY WAS WONDERFUL....
    sad how predictable the anti war women who works for the biggest defense contractor in the world is.

    [ Parent ]
    Ummm, that was not done that smoothly. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:55:34 PM EST
    ...but okay.

    I though Biden's "who"? was (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:57:42 PM EST
    priceless.

    [ Parent ]
    *sigh* (none / 0) (#98)
    by decih on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:22:25 PM EST
    No, what's going to hurt Obama is that he just leaned over and kissed Biden's wife. This was not a cheek peck. I'm in shock.

    [ Parent ]
    The kiss was "half lips" (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:25:44 PM EST
    and an accident. The proximity was all rushed an off kilter. The kiss on the lips was so unintentional. He almost "kissed" Biden too.
    If you have it recorded rewind to the hug and when he pulls away...almost a kiss.

    I think they were all nervous and anxious and keyed up. Obama did not at all look at ease. And Biden felt like crap for giving such a snooze bomb of a speech. Obama said, "you gave a good speech" to make him feel better...

    I actually think that the Obamas and Bidens really like one another and that's a GOOD THING!~

    [ Parent ]

    She's very attractive (none / 0) (#194)
    by MichaelGale on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:17:47 PM EST
    all his kids are

    [ Parent ]
    Unless she slapped him for it (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:53 PM EST
    I doubt it's going to hurt him very much, except maybe with the administration of Bob Jones University!

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe Obama (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:46:21 PM EST
    thought she was Tipper Gore.

    Ugh. Claire McGas-kill is on TV now. Thinks there was plenty of red meat in Biden's speech. Obama is not going to practice the old politics, he is going to continue to lift us up.

    Obama better make sure that Bill and Hillary are out there every day to skewer McCain.

    [ Parent ]

    Urg (none / 0) (#29)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:00:12 PM EST
    that was kinda lame.  But at least Obama gave his shoutouts.  I wonder if that means we won't get any tomorrow...I think he will be wise to reserve some praise for the Clintons tomorrow too...

    and the box of Obama suckups (Pelosi, Kerry) is priceless.  Collect 'em all!

    [ Parent ]

    LOL.... (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:11:36 PM EST
    ...where's Al Gore's lock box when you need it.

    [ Parent ]
    Ha ha! (none / 0) (#80)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:15:28 PM EST
    Good one.

    [ Parent ]
    God bless that lockbox! (none / 0) (#84)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:17:05 PM EST
    Gore lost, but at least we still have social security.  Kerry lost, and we have?  I guess we still have...Kerry...

    [ Parent ]
    Oh man...Obama has to rush out and justify (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:56:44 PM EST
    his Biden selection? Anxious much?

    haaaaaaaaa (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:16:04 PM EST
    That's what I was thinking too. Because of TiVo, Obama is just now finishing his "surprise guest appearance" ...

    At least he GRUNTED OUT a few good words for Bill and Hill, but I'm not buying it. I wish I was, but
    the artificiality of it all is excruciating. And odlly Michelle has no prob putting on a fake smile for Biden or her hubby...urks...it is those two who need to "get over it". Seriously GROW UP.

    AAAARGH having to watch Hillary sit through this muck is almost more than I can bare. I sure hope she doesn't show up for his ROMAN PILLARS show tomorrow.

    BUT I DO HOPE it's an inspirational speech.
    I simply don't want any cut aways to Hillary during that speech.

    [ Parent ]

    He read Jeralyn last night (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by MichaelGale on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:19:35 PM EST
    and thought...I gotta get over there!

    [ Parent ]
    Wow, I just reallized.... (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:57:08 PM EST
    ...I like Joe Biden better than I like Barack Obama. Now don't bash me, I'm voting for him but still.

    Me too. (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:59:23 PM EST
    Senator Biden isn't perfect, but he's been a good solid Democrat since forever. He's doing his level best to heal the party and help us be a family again. IMO, the Dems owe him a huge debt of gratitude for that.

    [ Parent ]
    He was never on my short list (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:02:11 PM EST
    he's far more interested in protecting corporate interests than he is in protecting my rights -- but he has grown more personally likeable to me.

    [ Parent ]
    Agreed. I could get behind him if he (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Practically Lactating on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:11:26 PM EST
    was the nominee. But he's not.

    [ Parent ]
    I like Bill Clinton and Hillary, better (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:24:45 PM EST
    Than either of them.  

    Bill was fabulous tonight.  He always is.  

    [ Parent ]

    In Fairness (5.00 / 0) (#133)
    by zvs888 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:34:13 PM EST
    Bill is the only two term President we've had in 70 years.  Can't really compare them.

    Joe Biden gave his best worksmanlike effort out there.

    He deserves plenty of credit for that.

    Even he would probably admit that he can't compare to the Clintons in terms of charisma or oratorical ability.

    [ Parent ]

    OK (none / 0) (#154)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:39:30 PM EST
    I'm not sure what your point is, but ok.

    [ Parent ]
    I always like Biden more than Barack (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Prabhata on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:30:53 PM EST
    Barack was my last choice until he became NO-choice.

    [ Parent ]
    I think this election will (none / 0) (#199)
    by MichaelGale on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:21:37 PM EST
    be between vice presidents not the nominees.

    [ Parent ]
    I realized that too (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:59:10 PM EST
    I remembered at one time he was on my short list when I was making up my mind.

    [ Parent ]
    I said that too recently (none / 0) (#101)
    by Lil on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:24:13 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Oh no. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:59:09 PM EST
    Now he sounds like he's giving out tickets to a block party.

    What a letdown at the end of the evening.

    It was absolutely not his goal to eclipse... (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:01:39 PM EST
    ...the speakers that came before. it was supposed to be a "letdown."

    When he overshadows people people claim he's making it all about him.

    When he doesn't people claim he's a letdown.

    And so people cry for him to be humble but will never let him be...

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry, Addison (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:07:34 PM EST
    But his little teaser appearance at the end struck me as very, very lame. And to suggest that it was supposed to be a letdown... well, I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

    Let's agree to disagree, ok?

    [ Parent ]

    Ok... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:09:45 PM EST
    ....fair enough.

    But I'll just note my use of the word "letdown" was merely to answer your point on its own terms.

    It was supposed to be a tiny little grace note on tonight, not some sort of amazing showstopping appearance.

    But yes, absolutely, agreement on anything -- even disagreement -- is a good thing.

    [ Parent ]

    It was copying Clinton 1992 again (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:19:42 PM EST
    That's all.

    [ Parent ]
    I heard JFK did the same thing? (none / 0) (#103)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:24:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    That's exactly what it was. (none / 0) (#193)
    by bridget on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14:32 PM EST
    And the Bill Surprise Show was a lot more fun :)

    [ Parent ]
    I like truces. (none / 0) (#76)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:14:12 PM EST
    :-)

    [ Parent ]
    It was almost childish - I'm not getting enough (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:07:08 PM EST
    attention!

    [ Parent ]
    Last Night... (5.00 / 0) (#115)
    by Brillo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:28:05 PM EST
    All the threads were asking where was he?  Why isn't he here?  Why isn't he supporting Hillary?  Why is he snubbing her again?

    And so tonight he shows up, and it's because he wants the attention?  The man truly cannot win with some people.

    [ Parent ]

    This isn't true (none / 0) (#136)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:34:51 PM EST
    Jeralyn was asking why he wasn't already at the convention, then updated to say she hadn't realized that it was traditional for the presumptive nominee to stay away until the actual nomination.

    [ Parent ]
    A charming ritual (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:57:47 PM EST
    Sort of like not being able to see the bride before the wedding.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh bejebus (1.00 / 1) (#203)
    by MichaelGale on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:25:17 PM EST
    Please.  He was scared that Biden would say something and he wasn't convinced that the convention might not be manipulated as planned.

    If there is one thing we can all agree on is that he is a control freak.

    [ Parent ]

    You don't get it (none / 0) (#138)
    by Prabhata on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:07 PM EST
    Jeralyn thought that he was needed to give Hillary's supporters a reason to vote for him.  So the idea was to show for the delegates, not for the speech givers on stage.  It was not doing campaign work not an appearance just for the lights to shine on him.

    [ Parent ]
    I was thinking of Joe Biden, he didn't get his (none / 0) (#139)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:08 PM EST
    "one shining moment"maybe if Obama had just waited a few minutes.

    [ Parent ]
    How quickly we forget (none / 0) (#145)
    by zvs888 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:50 PM EST
    Eh.

    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely (none / 0) (#149)
    by justonevoice on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:37:43 PM EST
    i am certainly no fan of Obama but you are directly on point.  that said, hillary is in the same boat.  neither candidate will be able to please the other side.  danged if they do and danged if they don't.

    [ Parent ]
    His personal story is compelling, (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:59:34 PM EST
    as they say -- the rest of the speech doesn't seem incredibly memorable to me. He had the same Freudian slip that John Kerry had -- I'm not buying that wasn't scripted. I think I saw the first sincere smile out of Michelle Obama though -- I suppose that's something. The whole thing is just -- meh.

    Agreede (none / 0) (#129)
    by Lil on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:32:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And there's his adorable mom. (5.00 / 6) (#30)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST
    I'm a sucker for all grannies, except Barbara Bush.

    and cute kids (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:02:18 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    The Biden family (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:07:31 PM EST
    looked so happy! I didn't see if Sasha and Malia were there, but maybe I'm just blind. Those girls are so adorable; I'd love to see the families together in the coming days.

    [ Parent ]
    Very cute kids (5.00 / 0) (#73)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:13:02 PM EST
    His grandson looked like a cherub.

    [ Parent ]
    His mom (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:37:53 PM EST
    was great during the speech, when he was like "this is what my mom used to say" and she would like be telling the people around her "that's a true story, actually."  Genuine to the Nth power.

    [ Parent ]
    Bruce - finally a good music selection (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:00:55 PM EST


    Remember Bill, Al, Hillary and Tipper? (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:01:16 PM EST


    They looked so good together. (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by bridget on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:31:15 PM EST
    Four very charming people. What a great ticket that was :)

    Looking at pics from the 92 and 96 elections I always think how young they were - and looked.

    [ Parent ]

    Did Clinton get more ovation than Biden with Obama (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Saul on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:01:51 PM EST
    Or is it just me.  I could have sworn that Bill got a greater applause and ovation then when Biden and Obama were on the sage.  If that so then that ticket is weak.

    I found it funny (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:38:58 PM EST
    that Bill seemingly got 10 minutes of applause and cheers, and then out comes John Kerry and I think maybe there were 2 guys blowing a kazoo or something.  Poor Kerry.

    [ Parent ]
    He did (none / 0) (#74)
    by D Jessup on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:13:38 PM EST
    It took him a look time to get the crowd to queiten down and they cheered him more....

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, Bill got more (none / 0) (#109)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:26:30 PM EST
    Because he's awesome!  It seems pretty clear that the Clintons are more loved.  

    [ Parent ]
    All downhill (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by oldpro on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:02:12 PM EST
    from Bill's speech, I'd say.

    Obama came out to inject some excitement into the end of it as it was fizzling out.....zzzzzz.....

    It all seems very forced to me; (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:13:52 PM EST
    they're trying too hard - you can tell from the crowd reaction.

    I think tomorrow night is going to fall flat - even with the temple and the fireworks.

    [ Parent ]

    I dread it...........the whole rock star thing (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:34:06 PM EST
    UGH.  I think I'll watch USC trounce UVA instead.  

    [ Parent ]
    I'm looking forward to that game (none / 0) (#172)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:47:06 PM EST
    And I do hope USC trounces them. UVA is just so... cavalier.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe so if tomorrow were to be at the Can (none / 0) (#160)
    by DFLer on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:41:22 PM EST
    but it will be a different crowd at the stadium, lots of non-delegates, and they will be fired up for Obama...kinda like the crews that have been hanging out around the msnbc outdoors booth. this will be the big moment for his fan base....I think it would be pretty hard to fall flat (and would be also pretty pathetic to do so too, but I don't see it happening)Plus you have the concert vibe and all.

    [ Parent ]
    I dunno (none / 0) (#184)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:53:48 PM EST
    I felt that Obama looked like a lightweight after Biden's speech.
    I don't like Biden, and I thought that some of what he said was scary - but he seemed polished and professional. Then Obama came out and pfffft.

    [ Parent ]
    Crowd just does not look all that (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:02:43 PM EST
    fired up.

    And I thought Obama looked a little disappointed that the applause was nowhere near what Bill Clinton got when he appeared.

    Interesting.

    Bill Clinton is MUCH better! (none / 0) (#142)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:25 PM EST
    He ALWAYS is.  The Obama campaign should pay attention to Clinton.  He knows what he's doing.  He knows how to win elections.  

    [ Parent ]
    I must be in the minority (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:05:45 PM EST
    Apologies, but I still think Biden is a blowhard.  It was over the top.  It was artificial.  I see it is no longer 'yes we can' but now 'more of the same'.   I do NOT like all of the militaristic talk.  I am looking forward to the polls at 2 and 3 weeks from now.

    The clips the camera showed of Michelle Obama were much better.  It looked to me, she might have been relieved to have the Clinton portion over and moving on to Biden.

    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:41:35 PM EST
    almost all the Democrats voted against the first Gulf War, with the notable exception of Al Gore.

    The conventional wisdom among Democrats was that it would go beyond a limited mission and that we would get bogged down.  We were wrong.  Keep in mind, if I recall correctly this was our largest military intervention since Vietnam so there wasn't much precedent for it.

    [ Parent ]

    Just my opinion (none / 0) (#174)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:49:14 PM EST
    But I was against the first Gulf war - and still am.
    I think Bush 1 let Americans soldiers be used as mercenaries by the fabulously wealthy Kuwaitis.

    [ Parent ]
    So Saddam Hussein,,, (none / 0) (#202)
    by pmj6 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:25:08 PM EST
    ...should have been allowed to occupy Kuwait, incorporate it into Iraq, and spread the blessings of his rule onto the hapless Kuwaitis? What, exactly, is your justification for this amazing position? That everyone gets to invade whomever they want, but the US cannot even intervene to reverse an obvious act of aggression?

    Fortunately, the rest of the world took a different view. this was a UN-authorized Chapter 7 military operation, with everyone showing up to play, not just the US but also the Brits, the French, pretty much the entire Gulf region. The Democrats were stupid to stand in the way.

    [ Parent ]

    Biden (none / 0) (#158)
    by justonevoice on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:40:39 PM EST
    might be a blowhard but he's Obama's blowhard.  Biden will go after McCain in a way that Obama may not be able to.  It will be interesting to see McCain's choice in a Veep.

    I am going to guess Romney.  Puts Michigan in play a bit and makes the Dems go defense in the mountain west.

    [ Parent ]

    Am I paranoid (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:05:49 PM EST
    Or did the preacher just quote the Declaration as an excuse to say 'right to life'?

    Biden is SABRE RATTLING big time + Obama (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:06:52 PM EST
    He's scaring me and the kids, and Melissa Ethridge looks totally aghast - like she's listening to the wrong VP candidate. Faint applause for sending more troops into Afghanistan etc.

    And Michelle, she saved all the kleenix till late this evening...

    Holy crap, Barack just kissed Jill Biden SMACK on the lips!

    "Hillary Clinton rocked the house last night", that's way too flip for my taste.

    Gaffe alert: "We started with a very simple idea: change in America doesn't start from the top up...top down...it starts from the bottom up". Yes, maybe a "simple idea", but he can't get it right.

    Yeah: "Fool me once...fool me twice...won't get fooled again" (GW Bush).

    Shhh. The Exelon / MBNA ticket (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by Practically Lactating on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:24:41 PM EST
    is for working folks.

    All aboard the "Cone of Silence Express." Please check your dissent with conductors Pelosi, Dean, and Brazile so they can pilfer your luggage in search of divisive opinions. Get aboard or get under.

    Enter John Mellancamp chorus:

    Bank of America for you and me
    Bank of America something to see baby
    Bank of America, home of the free

    [ Parent ]

    Get aboard or get under (none / 0) (#117)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:28:37 PM EST
    great slogan!  :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, I noticed that lip lock (none / 0) (#118)
    by Lil on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:28:40 PM EST
    and shortly after it looked liked she sniffed him. Not kidding; watch the rewind. very weird.

    [ Parent ]
    Correction on GW Bush gaffe/quote: (none / 0) (#147)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:36:03 PM EST
    "Fool me once, shame on you [pause], fool me twice [pause], won't get fooled again".

    That's the good stuff...stay tuned.

    [ Parent ]

    He scared me too. (none / 0) (#164)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:42:31 PM EST
    Why do democrats think they have to scream this crap?

    [ Parent ]
    He scared me too. (none / 0) (#167)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:44:29 PM EST
    Why do democrats think they have to scream this crap?

    They have to show how patriotic how tough how religious how family oriented and blah blah

    What are you going to do to end the war in Iraq, daddy?

    [ Parent ]

    Seeing Howard Dean (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:11:05 PM EST
    kind of killed my buzz. Thanks for everything, Governor. I hope you go back to New Hampshire real soon.

    That would be Vermont (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:12:52 PM EST
    New Hampshire has enough problems.

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry, (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:19:34 PM EST
    I always do that because Dean used to remind me of Jed Bartlet. I wish he still did :(

    [ Parent ]
    Not to mention (none / 0) (#79)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:15:15 PM EST
    that NH and Vermont hate one another. NH wouldn't want Dean on a bet.

    [ Parent ]
    New Hampshire? (none / 0) (#77)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:14:31 PM EST
    Democrats control the Congress. I think that was almost unimaginable when Bush beat Kerry in November 2004.

    Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, helped with that. A lot.

    I don't see the point in demeaning him.

    [ Parent ]

    I didn't support Dean in 2004 (5.00 / 6) (#90)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:20:09 PM EST
    I thought he was the blowhard in the campaign.

    Afterwards I felt bad that the MCM made such a huge deal out of the Dean Scream.

    But his performance this year in supporting The Roolz over enfranchising two critical swing states, his allowing Donna Brazile to be such a visible idiot, his willingness to tolerate sexism against Hillary -- I've reverted to thinking he's a blowhard.

    [ Parent ]

    Being a blowhard isn't enough to condemn... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:22:11 PM EST
    ...a blowhard with results still has results.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, then (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:25:51 PM EST
    I would say he's had distinctly mixed results.

    [ Parent ]
    yes, now we have a Congress dominated by (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:40:16 PM EST
    Blue Dogs and Nancy Never Saw a Republican I Wouldn't Capitulate To Pelosi in charge.

    That's not even talking about how he helped drag Obama over the finish line this year.  His plan to unify the party included kicking out those pesky working class folks and unifying what's left.  His excuse for not 'noticing' the sexism during the campaign was that he doesn't watch cable news.  Even if that were a credible answer, he ignored thousands of emails and letters pointing out that very thing.  Even the Obama campaign seems about done with him.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't like what he's done to my party. (5.00 / 4) (#110)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:26:54 PM EST
    I supported him for chair, hit that Dean bat more than I could afford, and worked my a** off for Jon Tester. But Dean repaid my faith in the 50-State strategy by running all over the talk shows for six months telling two large states that the Democratic Party doesn't care about their votes.

    The Republicans quietly took half the delegates from all the states that went against their schedule, and then shut up about it and let the votes play out. When the DNC makes the g-d Repubs look competent, reasonable, and fair, the chair deserves the heat.

    My apologies for getting his state wrong.

    [ Parent ]

    That's alright (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by BrianJ on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:39:12 PM EST
    I've given this rant before, so I won't bore you with it again, but I really regret my vote for Dean, he's been a failure on every level as DNC chair, and if Obama loses he'll bear the second greatest amount of blame.

    [ Parent ]
    No problem about the state mix-up... (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:40:05 PM EST
    ..but definitely the DNC rulings about Florida and Michigan were messed up. BTD did a great job reporting on that. And advocating for the right thing there.

    Dean didn't do right by the party there.


    [ Parent ]

    Thanks, Addison. (none / 0) (#181)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:52:08 PM EST
    The DNC thing just grates on all my raw spots, especially after that travesty of a roll call today. But I'm voting for the ticket and trying to be positive as much as I can. We'll get through this somehow.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, they won (none / 0) (#155)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:39:38 PM EST
    And what did we get for it?
    Nothing.

    [ Parent ]
    Right, nothing... (none / 0) (#163)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:42:01 PM EST
    ...we're not at war with Iran.

    [ Parent ]
    Iran? (none / 0) (#191)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:10:11 PM EST
    We're still at war in Iraq - and that was what the 2006 election was about. They all voted to fund it and send even more troops.

    [ Parent ]
    lol, at Jeralyn. His family looks nice... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:12:08 PM EST
    The best part was when it was over and...

    Well goodnight all.... (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:20:14 PM EST
    ...going to bed early tonight. I'm not subjecting myself to torture by punditry tonight.

    Here goes... (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:20:36 PM EST
    Looking at the diaries and comments on Dailykos, I realize fully that unity is a two-way street. And that this convention is equally about Obama supporters re-embracing the Clintons as it is about the Clintons embracing Obama.

    To the extent that it should be about either of those, which is really a media invention.

    A lot of the Obama supporters who were "Obama's worst enemies" have had their minds readjusted over the last couple nights. The way my mind was readjusted around late February.

    And hopefully that will let them stop unintentionally harming Obama by intentionally harming the Clintons.

    Anyway, I don't know how that opinion will play here, but unity goes both ways, and DailyKos is all about the Clintons again.

    I hope that matters.

    It matters if it lasts...... (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:25:49 PM EST
    They can change on a dime.

    [ Parent ]
    Well... (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:30:26 PM EST
    ...check out this diary. And check out the comments.

    [ Parent ]
    Addison, I was a regular there for four years (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:30:21 PM EST
    and it did more to drive me away from Obama than any single thing. I visited the last two days and I see a huge difference.

    I wonder if some of the most anti-Clinton posters there have never seen a campaign before? It was like, how dare Obama's opponent not support him while running against him? Then I think of one of the worse posts ever there (Kos on the picture) and that's hard to get over.

    I'm tired of the anger. I'm going to have a talk with myself. If Bill Clinton can get over it, I will try, too. If nothing else, out of respect for him.

    You were always a good one over there and tried to calm the crowd down. Now, if we can just get the media to shut up.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, well, back in May... (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:23 PM EST
    I tried.

    I'm happy to see people over there turn around, even at this late date.

    [ Parent ]

    Hear hear hear! (none / 0) (#205)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:37:17 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm not sure if.. (5.00 / 5) (#165)
    by TheRealFrank on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:43:29 PM EST
    ..I'll ever post at dKos again. Probably not.

    The Clinton hatred became too much to take. I saw the 2004 primaries, and things got heated on blogs. But that paled in comparison to the pure hatred expressed towards Hillary Clinton.

    I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I felt like I was in an insane asylum. And I started feeling that way when I even didn't support Hillary yet.

    Sadly, the tone expressed in comments here these days is often also bitter towards Obama, and I don't like that. But at least that's a bitterness I can somewhat understand. The hatred to wards anyone named Clinton was just unbelievable, and came out of nowhere. What did Hillary and Bill Clinton ever do to those people? I had to leave to protect my sanity.


    [ Parent ]

    I'm not sure what they can do (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:51:07 PM EST
    Once you've run with the "they darkened his skin in that video" story, I really don't know how you recover.

    I think you disband the operation and start over under a different name.

    And I'm serious.

    [ Parent ]

    Well... (none / 0) (#123)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:30:22 PM EST
    it's a little late, don't ya think?

    [ Parent ]
    That's what a jerk said... (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:31:56 PM EST
    ...from an allegedly "pro-Obama" POV about Hillary's speech over there at Dkos.

    "Too little too late."

    It's a rallying cry, it can be persuasive, but it's also stubborn and unforgiving.

    [ Parent ]

    I really think that's hysterical (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:23:09 PM EST
    There were many Obama supporters who all along somehow believed that Bill, at the least, and both of the Clintons, at best, were so wrong to be campaigning for Hillary instead of Barack.

    They really couldn't get the concept that they had a right to campaign for Hillary's election.

    This is so bizarre.
     

    [ Parent ]

    I liked Paul Begala's read on the Biden speech (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:20:38 PM EST
    He says it's a speech that a county commissioner could repeat in small town America (that is to say, you can't go to small town Ohio and be Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama).

    Of course, I can't entirely agree: Hillary and Bill gave lots of good lines worth repeating, but it's worth thinking about.

    Clueless (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:27:49 PM EST
    Sorry to continue with the Greek Revival Columns set -- but according to Howard Dean on the Daily Show, he hasn't seen anything the set tomorrow for Obama's speech and clearly had no idea what Jon was talking about when he asked. (The question was "With all the talk about Obama's elitism and hubris, why is he giving a speech in front of the Parthenon?")

    ::headdesk::

    On the local news they're (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:31:02 PM EST
    joking about the Acropolis...not funny.

    [ Parent ]
    The fact that (5.00 / 4) (#144)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:35:40 PM EST
    the head of the D