The Effect of Hillary's Speech

The media is using superlatives to describe Hillary Clinton's speech tonight.

The Republicans are saying she didn't do anything to dispel the idea that Obama lacks the experience to lead the country.

I think it's a great night for Democrats, but what will the final effect be?

Did Obama made the biggest mistake of his campaign by not choosing Hillary for his VP candidate? How many Democrats will sit the election out?

And yes, watching Joe Biden made me cringe.

Anita's reaction: [More...]

if that isn't high voltage leadership, I don't know what is. Barack must indeed be pleased, she just got him a few million votes. you go girl.

Update: Read Eriposte at Left Coaster.

< After Tonight, The Republicans Hate Hillary Again | Why Isn't Sen. Barack Obama in Denver? >
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  • Yes, he messed up, but then so did the DNC. (5.00 / 13) (#1)
    by masslib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:57:40 PM EST

    He made a big mistake (5.00 / 10) (#57)
    by Grace on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:15 PM EST
    but the DNC made a bigger mistake.  

    Seriously, the speech was so powerful, I'm sad she's not our candidate.  


    But, I have to admit (5.00 / 4) (#109)
    by tlkextra on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:05 PM EST
    during the filmed introduction, I thought (with absolutely no sarcasm), "Way to go Barrack, letting her have her moment...she earned it." I was pleased with that, although I was disturbed by Michele's glaring, whether intentional or not, she needs to learn that the cameras will always be on her and it's all about appearances for the good of the party, not just him.

    I think she thought she was showing (none / 0) (#141)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:02:19 AM EST
    a humble face, not a glaring one. Biden had a less than attractive look going on, as well.

    Didn't look mad to me, either (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by Emma on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:44 AM EST
    She didn't look wildly enthused, I'll grant you.  But I didn't get the mad vibe.

    If that was a humble face... (5.00 / 5) (#175)
    by frenly on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:33:29 AM EST
    I'd hate to see angry.  MO was shooting daggers with her eyes even though she was smiling with her mouth; a sure sign of deceit.  And her mouth smile wasn't even very convincing.  As proud as I am (as a Black man) of the possibility of having her as first lady, she needs to take a page from Cindy McCain's book and learn how to smile and look pleasant all the time.  It isn't fair, but it's what political wives (and occasionally husbands) have to do.

    As for Biden.... He just looked upset the entire time.  Of course I know that both the Clinton's smiles and facial expressions are not necessarily genuine, but hey they know how to play the game better than anyone else.  And trust me, people pay attention to little things like that.  Little non-verbal cues tell the viewer volumes more than their words.  And that is Obama's problem.  He comes across as elitist because he is elite.  His blackness doesn't change that.

    The Clinton's, for all their power and success, really do spring from lower and middle class roots and that comes across to people.


    I'd agree with that analysis (none / 0) (#153)
    by tlkextra on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:30 AM EST
    except that she broke into a big smile when her own name was mentioned.

    HILLARY WAS/IS RIVETING! (5.00 / 7) (#97)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:46 PM EST
    Watched it with friends: we couldn't take our eyes off her and she had us on the edge of our seats for every second of the entire speech.

    FLAWLESS! What more could they possibly ask of her? If Obama loses it's all on him.

    Most poignant moment: when she asked her supporters "Did you do it for me, or for all the people"? (paraphrased).

    Stirring stuff about the Underground Railroad; she left NOTHING out.

    Did anybody catch this moment during the standing ovation? The camera was in closeup on Bill, he was tearing up and he mouthed the words: "I love you. I love you Hillary. I love you".

    That is my sentiment now more than ever.

    She made the case to vote for Obama, it couldn't have been more persuasive. But, in the process, it was strikingly clear: she was/is the superior candidate, by far.

    C'est la vie, c'est la vie.


    I know, I kept thinking (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by tlkextra on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:19 PM EST
    - I know he's supposed to be so good at speeches, but at least she seems more natural and not obviously looking at the teleprompter.

    I kow, (5.00 / 4) (#195)
    by Gabriele Droz on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:59:07 AM EST
    what always gets me is the obvious love they have for each other, regardless of anything thrown in their way.  Bill's head shots mirroring her sentences said it all to me.  He loves her and is totally proud of her.

    Totally sentimental here.


    lol at Jeralyn's made me cringe remark. (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:47 PM EST
    I am sure biden will have many more cringe-worthy moments for us all.

    IMO Hilary speech will backfire (5.00 / 20) (#3)
    by Saul on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:55 PM EST
    Through no fault of her own her speech was so good and so electrifying that all it did IMO was galvanized even more the Hilary supporters toward her and away from Obama

    Her job was to convince her supporters that even though she lost it's time to move on and vote for Obama.  The harder she tried to convince her supporters to support Obama, the passion in her speech will just do the opposite and make those supporters not to vote for Obama.  

    The CNN interview right after the speech of a black women Hilary delegate said it all.  The delegate said "You just saw witnessed  one of the greatest presidential speeches  ever"

    You know what (5.00 / 22) (#5)
    by dissenter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:02 PM EST
    Hillary's speech was brilliant and I'm still not voting for BO. It isn't because of HILLARY. It is because of BARRACK.

    That's Enough (5.00 / 19) (#29)
    by Athena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17:03 PM EST
    Hillary could not invent experience and a resume for Obama.  She's not a magician.

    But she still is the most qualified and electable candidate.  Tonight made that clear.  Nothing she said has improved the chance that I will vote for Obama.  If anything, the sheer incompetence of this Democratic party is on full display as they nominate a minor leaguer over a pro.


    My reaction, exactly (5.00 / 9) (#62)
    by BigB on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:59 PM EST
    Hillary gave a terrific speech, beyond the call of duty in supporting Obama. I watched it and thought she should be the nominee. Not Obama!

    After two nights of this convention, I still don't know what Obama has accomplished in his life. None of the speakers said anything about his record.

    Her speech only made me sad that we are nominating this neophyte.

    Did Hillary's speech win me over to Obama? No!


    Athena (none / 0) (#162)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:46 AM EST
    Suspecting that some Hillary supporters are really republicans trying to sway people away from Barack Obama.....

    It's amazingly simple: (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Grace on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:14:54 AM EST
    Barack isn't Hillary.  

    I got sad when she talked about Universal Healthcare.  He'll never pass anything remotely similar to what she wanted to try to pass.  She was an expert in this field, he isn't.  She's already paid her dues in trying to get a healthcare plan passed.      


    Yes, (none / 0) (#209)
    by tlkextra on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:13:52 AM EST
    I read the 2008 Democratic Platform and felt it was lacking in the area of pushing for Universal Healthcare. Having spent the last 1-1/2 year going through a health crisis and treatment, I'm more aware than ever of its need. Having been self-employed, my insurance was $3500/yr premium with $3500/yr deductible. Thank goodness the coverage was mostly 100% afterward (with limitations, of course) or, well....I don't know. Probably, I would have lost my leg instead of having limb sparing surgery in addition to all my other treatment. So far, insurance has paid the reduced price of $200,000 - for anyone else, it would have been over a half million.

    Heh, I posted before (5.00 / 12) (#6)
    by Jane2009 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:16 PM EST
    I saw this. Exactly agree with you - the speech reminded me of everything we lost out on this time around. It'll be interesting to see what Obama follows up with.

    Video of that delegate... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by lansing quaker on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:36 PM EST
    good find, thanks (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:12 PM EST
    This video didn't include a lot of stuff she said before though. But one thing I missed when I watched it live was that Cooper asked Malvo to find her on Thursday to see if her mind has changed. Good to hear. That way we'll find out if she's still a delegate or if she's been kicked out. Like I said below, that will tell us a lot about the Obama campaign. And if she's still there, it will be nice to see her reaction.

    Roy Laverne Brooks (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:31 PM EST
    here in TX was going to have her super-delegate status stripped from her because she was running against Boyd Richie, state chair and Obama backer.


    Reviewing the history and tactics of Team Obama I bet a dollar to a dog biscuit that this delegate's status will be POOF and she will not be allowed back onto the convention floor.

    No convictions allowed.  This is the NEW Democratic Party.


    let us know if you find out (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:51 AM EST
    of course if she's kicked out it will be a really bad move by the dnc/obama campaign. I have a feeling given that conviction and emotion, if she got kicked out, it would make her mind up, and she might just speak out about it. To CNN and others even.

    There's more to that story (none / 0) (#129)
    by stxabuela on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:48 PM EST
    but too o/t.  I'll wait for an open thread.

    just put a new thread up on it (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:42 PM EST
    abolutely (1.00 / 3) (#19)
    by progrocks on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:05 PM EST
    yah, she was totally ineffective with what she was trying to convey. Glad to see that only a select few of her "supporters" think she failed, everyone who does not want McCain to be the next president think she did a great job.

    Anne Price-Mills (5.00 / 15) (#4)
    by Jane2009 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:35 PM EST
    There was an extremely articulate and passionate woman interviewed on CNN right after - Anne Price-Mills; she's a delegate from Texas, I think. She basically said, after watching Hillary, that the DNC blew it, and "you saw it" - Hillary's potential to be a great president, "That speech was presidential." She was also asked how she planned to vote in Nov., and said, "I won't vote for McCain" but "Obama has 2 months to make his case." Right now, she just doesn't know if she can vote for him.

    She spoke for me, that's for sure.

    yes, she was fantastic (5.00 / 6) (#16)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:25 PM EST
    I really felt for her and loved that she expressed the pain a lot of us feel watching what could have been one of the greatest presidencies and of course so historic.

    I have a bad feeling that she will immediately be kicked out as a delegate though. I wonder if there is any way to find out if she is allowed back in tomorrow. And if she is kicked out (like others that have expressed doubt), will that push her over the edge and help her make a decision on her vote. Like she said, Obama has to make his case and prove he has what it takes, and I think how this wonderful woman is treated will tell us a lot.


    Kicked out?! (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:04 PM EST
    You can't be serious!  Would they really kick her out for not agreeing to vote for Obama?  

    What has happened to our party?  Has it become some kind of communist group think that must prevail?  

    I'm sorry, but this is frightening.  If they kick out that lovely, struggling DEMOCRAT, that's just too much.  Intolerable to have such an intolerant party.  


    she wouldn't be the first (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:48 PM EST
    if she is. There is at least one woman who is now in a McCain commercial after she got kicked out. Not the smartest thing to do IMO.

    Let Them Even Try! (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:33 PM EST
    The DNC will regret it if they did such a thing.

    She said she will NOT vote for McCain, and she WILL vote for Hillary tomorrow. She did not commit to Obama, and for good reason. Obama has to work hard in the next two months to win her over.

    He'd better if he knows what's good for him, b'cos there will be hundreds of thousands, maybe a couple of million who are just like her.

    They are being fair and giving him time to earn their vote.


    What I particularly liked (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by tlkextra on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:36 PM EST
    from that interview was that she confronted the CNN reporter - saying "you have to admit, that speech was Presidential, and when you start to pick it apart, and you will, you have to admit...that speech was Presidential". I kept waiting for CNN to cut away from her (to silence her), but she articulated well what many people feel - HE now has two months to convince us otherwise. Since Anderson Cooper said they need to follow up with her after Obama's speech, hopefully that means she'll stick around. I also noted that immediately after the speech Campbell Brown was gushing about how good it was. Then, after a commercial, she comes back, arms folded, attacking, because as she noted, "she got emails..." Way to go, Campbell, great reporting, let someone else tell you what to say.

    Mills (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Athena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:49:05 PM EST
    She was awesome.  I'm guessing that at least 2 million CNN voters saw her testimonial to Hillary right after the speech.  She certainly spoke for me.

    C'mon, no one is going to kick her out (none / 0) (#76)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:34 PM EST
    of the convention, get real.  

    Private Organization (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:15:01 AM EST
    Technically, they can kick her out.  Others have been replaced in the individual states for those who are considered more loyal.  It is a private club.  If you will not commit to voting for the Democratic candidate no matter what, they can strip a person of their delegate status. It is the party's right.

    They won't in this case.  It would be a media nightmare.


    agree (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26:09 AM EST
    both that they have the right and that it would be really stupid. It's a country club. Well, except they don't have pools or tennis courts or anything like that. What a rip off.

    Yeh. Btw, the delegate who WAS kicked out (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:29:31 AM EST
    from Wisconsin is in Denver, too.  Could be some more TV coverage coming.  And perhaps some questions about arbitrariness, as the one from Wisconsin was kicked out but not the one from Colorado -- and now, if this one isn't kicked out, either. . . .

    But then, arbitrary and capricious has become the slogan of the DNC this year.  


    wouldn't be the first (none / 0) (#149)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:32 AM EST
    I'm glad you think that. And I hope you're right. If she is kicked out, I think that will speak volumes about Obama's character though.

    Hah. You're not here. (none / 0) (#178)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:35:21 AM EST
    You're not talking every day to Clinton delegates who are being railroaded into not performing their duties as elected Clinton delegates. Whoa re being threatened with replacement.

    I would not put it past them at all. They've done it to too many others already.


    I thought it was a fantastic speech. (5.00 / 13) (#7)
    by Iphie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:58 PM EST
    Well written and well delivered. I think the problem for the Obama campaign now is that she was too good. Biden is just nowhere near her league -- I think we're going to see as many clips of her speech following Biden's speech as we will of his, and the comparison won't be kind to Biden. And now, not only does Obama have to top his 2004 speech, he has to top her speech as well.

    Interesting (5.00 / 4) (#136)
    by cal1942 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:57:39 PM EST
    you should mention Obama's 2004 keynote address.

    We were told to be prepared for a stunning speech. In my judgement he never made it to the awards stand. At the 2004 convention I rated the speeches: 1 Bill Clinton, 2 John Kerry, 3 John Edwards, 4 Al Sharpton (for that great line that brought everyone to their feet).

    I felt completely let down, that the speech was dullingly mediocre. A keynote speech should be a call to arms. This guy gave us warmed over unity trash; a preview of coming detractions.


    True, (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:57 AM EST
    I thought it was a good speech, but not the earth-moving spectacle everyone told me it was afterwards. Even if it's true though, the myth that it was some sort of model of oratorical greatness is out there and that is what he now has to contend with -- he's got to surpass the hype -- and now Hillary just raised the bar even higher.

    Like Ferraro following Cuomo... (none / 0) (#102)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:36:23 PM EST
    ... in 1984.

    After Cuomo's electrifying speech in 1984, Ferraro paled in comparison, as almost anyone would have. And I understand as Cuomo was wrapping up, a lot of people were thinking, "Why isn't he our presidential nominee?"


    Because (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:45 PM EST
    he would never get in the %@!^#@& race!!!  Grr.

    Exactly. Man, what a missed opportunity. (none / 0) (#134)
    by masslib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:54:26 PM EST
    Because the Establishment (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by Landulph on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:40:03 PM EST
    supported Walter Mondale, and the SuperDs had to drag him across the finish line. And aren't you happy how that turned out in the end?

    No way Mondale could've beat Reagan. (none / 0) (#170)
    by magnetics on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:28:06 AM EST
    Sad for the country, but true.  I doubt any Dem could have done it; the Ray-gun image machine was too much for any of them, including Cuomo.  

    IMO Reagan was actually our worst president, worse than GWB, whose ascent he enabled.


    Yes, Obama blundered (5.00 / 18) (#8)
    by democrat1 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:17 PM EST
    If he loses the election, I think it is possible, his VP selection will be one of the top reasons for his loss.

    His arrogance and lack of grace will be the cause of his down fall

    here's my thought (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST
    about the media.  They talking heads are now being so NICE about Hillary because they is no longer any danger that she will be on t he ticket.

    I just wrote a scathing (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:28 PM EST
    note to MSNBC.

    I will do like Hillary, put aside my personal reservations and do what I think is best for the country.
    But I will let the media (and especially people like Maddow) know how I think they interfered with the democratic process and hurt women.

    I am thrilled that there is now no way those idiots in the press can blame any mess up by the Obama campaign on Hillary.


    Oh, I think they'll find a way. (none / 0) (#56)
    by miriam on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:13 PM EST
    Can we please boycott MSNBC? Just (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:11 PM EST
    stop watching them!!!!

    Hear, hear!! (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:00 AM EST
    I completely agree. And, for those who just can't resist the car accident, try to refrain from sharing.

    Done. n/t (none / 0) (#150)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:46 AM EST
    A repeat of 2000 (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by AX10 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:43:08 PM EST
    once Gore conceded to the Republican version of Obama, the media lauded his greatness and humility.
    It is a hollow victory.  I am not going to accept this bull again. McCain 08'!

    Thanks (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:06:55 PM EST
    for everyone's feedback on Hillary's speech.  I cannot bring myself to watch her or Bill Clinton because I know it would just be too upsetting, and I don't want to give BHO's coronation ANY improved audience ratings.

    Good to know that Hillary had a great moment at the convention, made her case, and brought the audience to a frenzied moment.  I heard Dennis Kucinich was pretty electric today, too.

    And I know why the likes of Hillary and Dennis were "electric", because they are REAL Democrats (esp Dennis Kucinich).  

    And as for Mrs. Obama's seemingly less than enthusiastic reactions to Senator Clinton, it would behoove her husband's campaign for her to "get on board" and get over it.  The Obamas will never be the Clintons and she will never have the spot in America's electorate that Hillary has right now.

    Joe Biden?  Cringe worthy?  GET outta town!!!

    She was great, phenomenal (none / 0) (#27)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:19 PM EST
    Her message, or at least my distillation of it:  If you vote for McCain, you will be doing a disservice to what she stands for, for our country, and for its future.  

    I happen to agree with her (none / 0) (#112)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:38 PM EST
    My impression (5.00 / 12) (#11)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:09 PM EST
    The reaction was almost stronger among the Obama supporters as among the Clinton supporters, in the sense that all doubts about Hillary's good faith were completely washed away.  Some of them probably felt a little guilty about it.

    This, in the long run, has the effect of lowering the temperature on all sides.  That means less of the anti-Clinton comments that tend to stoke the flames.  Slowly, tensions ratchet down.

    I know that all of the Obama skeptics will make an individual choice in the end, some will vote for the ticket, some will not.  But none of them can deny that Hillary made an awfully good case.

    They should feel guilty (5.00 / 13) (#15)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:13 PM EST
    Anyone who watched the concession speech in the spring knew exactly what to expect.

    The efforts to disappear that previous speech have amazed me.


    Actually, and garden (none / 0) (#194)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:56:59 AM EST
    their trying to disappear that speech did not surprise me at all. It's as I said above, the lights will be burning late tonight among the hidden lairs of the Clinton detractors seeking ways to twist and distort this speech... if nothing can be found, there will be complete silence.

    Already done (none / 0) (#202)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:02:23 AM EST
    The right wingers has already stated "It wasn't that great" Don't you watch FOX news...LOL!!! (I can't believe that it is actually a news station)!

    Well... (5.00 / 13) (#26)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:55 PM EST
    ... as you say, anyone who knows anything about Hillary Clinton knew she was going to give a speech like this. She is too much of a staunch Democrat to ever not support the Democratic ticket. If anyone thought otherwise, they were too drunk on their own Hillary-hatred.

    I don't know how her supporters will react. Maybe I'm just a lost cause, but when I see Obama supporters--the same ones who called her racist repeatedly--express surprised admiration that she actually, you know, supports the Democratic Party, I remember everything they said during the primaries.


    Well (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:19:44 PM EST
    Sooner or later the hard feelings have a way of subsiding.  For some of us it's sooner and for others it's later.  Everyone has to move forward in their own way.

    My personal way of coping is that I will vote for Obama, I will write nice diaries about him at MyDD, but I will always oppose Jesse Jackson Jr. for any office, anywhere, as long as I live.  Your mileage may vary, but that's what works for me!


    I haven't decided how I'm voting... (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:47 PM EST
    Certainly not for McCain, but after that, I'm not sure.

    Currently, I'm taking the flood of mail solicitations for money from the DCCC and DSCC and dumping it straight into the recycle bin. I'm deleting the parade of email solicitations for money without reading them. They're not getting a penny from me this time.

    The Obama establishment has to convince me they genuinely respect Hillary Clinton and her voters, and I'm not sure they can ever do that, because I don't think they do. They need her voters and want their money, but that's different.


    I'm (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Nadai on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:27:18 PM EST
    still mad at my 6th grade teacher.  I suspect that for me, it'll be later.  :)

    The other day (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:50 PM EST
    I told my dad that I was still a little peeved that he wouldn't let me go on a field trip when I was in the 2nd grade.

    He was a little shocked that I would even remember such a thing, but you know how it is, some stuff stays with you!

    My opinion is that everyone comes around at their own pace, but every time some fool says "get over it already," the clock basically restarts.  For my part, I give people the space to make their own decisions, because it's the respectful thing to do.


    Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by JThomas on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:21 PM EST
    just did a wonderful job out there tonite. I am amazed at how good she has become as a public speaker...she is as good or better than Bill!

    She came off as truly sincere and put the american people ahead of herself in saying that we simply cannot afford another four years of the same old Bush policies.
    Thank you Hillary Clinton.

    I have always (none / 0) (#199)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:01:21 AM EST
    enjoyed Bill's speeches. I look forward to hearing him again.

    I Have My Doubts (5.00 / 8) (#13)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:08:39 PM EST
    I'm sure everyone would like to think that Hillary hit it out of the park tonight, and that all is well. All the hold-outs will fold back in and Obama will sail into the White House.

    However, as that delegate, Anna Knowles, so eloquently stated (in as many words), the ball's in Obama's court and he needs to close the sale within the next two months.

    Some people may feel compelled, not to vote for McCain, but NOT to VOTE AT ALL, because they just don't feel the person at the top of ticket is worthy of their vote.

    Hillary did everything, and more, of what was expected of her tonight. NO ONE can pick fault with her now, and I PRAY they lay off her and stop hounding her.

    It is Obama's turn to close the ring of Unity.

    Yes, Bill has a speech to make, but he's a former Democratic President. He is owed the time to talk about his accomplishments and his vision for the party her lead for two terms in the White House. He does not owe anything to Obama, except maybe a word or two of support. It's not his job to rally Hillary's supporters. She did that already.

    Obama's must close the ring of Unity. There is no other way or option if he wants a better shot at the White House. He made his Veep pick. Now he needs to sell himself and quite literally, beg the hold-outs by stating specifics of his vision and ask them to support him.

    "by stating specifics of his vision" (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:22:44 AM EST
    Yes, this is really the key, isn't it. The problem, or at least part of it, is that experience gives force to the expression of specifics and Obama cannot keep bringing up his experiences working on Chicago's South Side. That is only one tiny part of a very large country. Here is this first term Senator who has accomplished very little... and much of what he has done I find upsetting.

    I will say this... it's a good thing that their speeches are on different days because set side by side the contrast in their experience would reveal the vagueness of his ideas.


    "specifics" (1.50 / 2) (#221)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:28:20 AM EST
    Again I ask, did u have specifics from Hillary or McCain? NO! They all give u the same amount of "detail". Barack was just a bit more eloquet with his info.

    Sure (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:09:07 PM EST
    Obama made a huge mistake. But Hillary cleaned it up a ton tonight.

    I can not tell you how good a speech that was tonight.

    This is a close election (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:50 PM EST
    and Hillary might have bought Obama just enough votes to put him over the top tonight.

    It would be premature (5.00 / 13) (#22)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:13:36 PM EST
    and dare I say, presumptuous, to believe that.

    There's still a lot of work to be done, and that responsibility is all Barack's.

    Hillary's done her part. He needs to close the sale.


    wishful thinking (5.00 / 5) (#135)
    by lmv on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:55:46 PM EST
    This speech reminded America why Hillary should have been the nominee.  That won't lead to votes.  

    The 30% voting for McCain know Hillary wants them to support Obama and they've already decided to ignore her.  

    And, the more people see of Obama, the less they like him.  That's exactly what we saw in the primary.  Why would the GE be different?

    One more thing, Michelle's angry responses didn't help mend fences.  She only smiled when her husband was mentioned and looked positively furious when Hillary mentioned her husband.  The bad blood undercuts the unity message.


    Hillary's speech (none / 0) (#225)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:31:33 AM EST
    may not cause Hillary voters to vote for Obama, but I think it did a great job of explaining why they should not vote for McCain. So in the long run I think it did a lot in that direction -- pulling former Hillary voters away from McCain to... perhaps not voting the top of the ticket at all.  

    Really? Do you seriously think (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by cosbo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:00:49 AM EST
    people's memory are going to last that long? In a couple of days it will be McCain's turn to name the VP and I'm guessing that he'll pick a woman, thereby shifting the conversation yet again.

    Hillary's speech was fantastic tonight and the high from that will probably fade  in a few days. Our attention spans are real short these days.

    What her speech will probably accomplish is a short term appearance of "unity". It'll probably last as long as the rest of  the convention.


    We'll see. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Landulph on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:06 PM EST
    Her campaign suspension speech was also well received, and Obama's been dipping since then. We will see if this proves longer lasting.

    BTD - (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Lena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:14:09 PM EST
    I can't help but wonder whether your effusive praise for Clinton's speech has anything to do with the fact that she was wearing Gator orange. Against a blue backdrop....

    She was wearing blue and orange (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:01:07 AM EST
    Denver Bronco colors.

    Around here the fanatics say that blue ad orange sunsets are proof that God is Broncos fan.

    I expected her to wear white as an homage to the suffragettes, as many women did in the 18 Million Voices march today.


    Actually, yellow and purple (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:35:44 AM EST
    were the suffrage colors.  Often combined with white, but yellow was the color of one main organization, purple the color of the other -- until the merger, and then they were combined.

    White was the color of the temperance women, thus called the "White Ribboners."

    Just for the record.  I know, I know I wage a losing battle for historical authenticity.  And it's the spirit that counts, so I'm glad for the suffrage parade today.  Also glad that there are no reports of men behaving as they did in the suffrage parades of yore.  

    I guess that's progress. But somehow, after so many Women's Equality Days for me, I don't feel tonight that we've made real progress at all.


    She hit it out of the Invesco Center, out of the (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:05 PM EST
    park, out of downtown.

    Way out of Denver, maybe to Winter Park or possibly Copper Mountain. Aspen? Steamboat? Is it still saiing on toward California?

    So d*mn good.

    Tavis Smiley thinks Hillary may have established a new goal to beat in political speeches. Not just a personal best, but possibly a national record, maybe world record. Gold medal time!


    NYTimes reporter, Jody Somebody, said it's been (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:47 PM EST
    a long time since Obama's given a really great speech and she wonders how he'll do.

    Wow. Mr. Best Orator Evah??

    And if Obama thinks he'll get away without a roll call vote! Amazing if true--and can he do that? Inefficient to have the states give their vote counts! Crikey.


    I agree with her (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:16:41 AM EST
    The 2004 Convention was the last great one. He has since picked up this odd pattern of hesitating at points in his sentences and then loud and down with the last word. It is impossible for me to listen to it, and if I can't listen, he's going to have a tough time convincing me to vote for him.

    Where did you see Tavis Smiley's (none / 0) (#156)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:13:17 AM EST
    comments? I would be very curious to see/read his words in full.

    I didn't want Hillary to run for president--and at (5.00 / 10) (#17)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:48 PM EST
    first I was an Edwards backer. When I saw he was fading, I began to intensely investigate Obama's political history and searched and searched and searched for information. Few blogs were doing any backgrounders on him as many had "seen the light." Indeed, when I would post articles and ask for discussion, if there was anything in the reports which did not fluff Obama, there would be angry retorts to my having posted such dreck (those ol' devil facts).

    I felt Hillary did not have a good speaking style, that her voice tended to tense up and she could sound strained. I feared she would lose her voice and the tension in the voice seemed to indicate tension within her.

    Boy, has she grown as a campaigner, speaker.

    Hillary does passion--with control and honesty. She does some vocal changes and humor, which I hadn't thought she could do. She can answer questions without getting lost in a word fog or word cloud. Her fervor comes through clearly, as her ideas come through clearly.

    She has truly grown and flowered.

    Drat, drat, drat. Why did the MCM have to put their massive thumb on the scales???

    Dems, it's still not too late!!! Think about it!

    Forgot to add that it was all my research which (5.00 / 7) (#41)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:57 PM EST
    caused me to support Hillary. I figured I knew everything about her--but I didn't because the MCM didn't talk about lots of aspects of her career and accomplishments. Example: I never knew she had been an early proponent of micro lending and got it instituted in Arkansas.  Who knew?

    That along with her excellent debates. And I couldn't find answers to what Obama actually would do--I still don't have those answers, alas. And what I did find about his politicking made me wary of whether he had firm principles.

    Tonight, at long last, Charlie Rose and panel are addressing the fact that Obama has never tied his ideas together into any framework. Jacob Weisberg said he has lots of ecoomic planks, but they've never been put together to create a ship.

    (Obama supporter says Obama has been totally specific. He counted 147 specific econ proposals! Hels laid it all out! Huh??? Thinks people are challenging Obama too much, esp'ly on race issues.)

    Which is why Anita was asking "What's the message? Where's the message?"

    And so many voters are asking, over and over and over, what will he actually do? Intend to do? What changes? Where will he take the nation?  


    What about the others (3.00 / 1) (#173)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:29:55 AM EST
    Do we actually know what Hillary or McCain's message is? What they will actually do? Do we have their answers in detail...like we're asking of Obama? It seems to me that he's saying the exact same things Hillary is, except he may say them a bit more eloquently... though I feel like his speech skills have been slacking up. I can wait to hear him on Thursday.

    Didn't see it. (5.00 / 15) (#20)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:06 PM EST
    It would have made my heart break again. But I'm not at all surprised that she did a terrific job. She's always been a tremendous advocate for Democratic policies, much more so that most of the milquetoast people who pass for Democratic leaders these days.

    Will it have any effect? I don't know. She gave a similarly rousing and well-received speech in her concession in June, and that didn't do a whole lot for Obama. Her supporters all already knew that she was supporting the Democratic ticket.

    As for me, maybe I'm just stubborn. But when I see Hillary and what could have been, and when I see these fair-weather folks who are praising her now after calling her racist for months, I get even angrier.

    Was I just in it for you, Hillary? Well, I was in it because I believed in your leadership and your ideas. You showed me over and over again why I was proud to support you. But someone has to hold the party accountable for the way it treated you. If not your supporters, then who?

    Yes (5.00 / 12) (#44)
    by Nadai on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:20 PM EST
    But when I see Hillary and what could have been, and when I see these fair-weather folks who are praising her now after calling her racist for months, I get even angrier.

    I made the mistake of going over to DKos to see the reaction.  Most of them are all lovey now - they "forgive" her.  I cannot express how much I loathe those people.


    I haven't been there in months. (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:00 PM EST
    Never again.

    They forgive HER? (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:36 PM EST
    I can see that I was right to stay away from the orange place tonight.

    And every other night (5.00 / 5) (#113)
    by Nadai on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:52 PM EST
    But, yeah, they forgive her.  All I can say is, they're all very very lucky my eyes can't shoot laser beams through the tubes, or there'd be a couple hundred people with holes in them.

    KOS and his followers (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by BigB on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:48 PM EST
    have shown themselves to be very small-minded people.

    and destructive to the dem party n/t (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:47:41 PM EST
    I hear you on the loathing (5.00 / 3) (#216)
    by mary kate on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:59 AM EST
    I try to remind myself that they're cultists, really, for whom somebody should have staged an intervention last February or so, and that they're more to be pitied than scorned, caught up in the grip of forces that they don't seem willing or able to understand, their political passions being exploited for purposes they apparently cannot even begin to fathom.  Well, I try, but: mostly I fail.  I just about purely loathe them.

    The group "forgiveness" is all of a piece with the creepy herd dynamic that animates that site: lovebombing, hatebombing, and etc.  And when it comes to the treatment of and attitudes toward women, it's like Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter gone digital!

    For the owner/founder of that website, I have lost all respect.  And to think I once used to defend    him against what I thought were baseless accusations that he was running a hate site. Ha!    Joke was on me, I guess.


    Kudos (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:27 PM EST
    I've always been an Obama supporter.  I was overwhelmed by Clinton's speech tonight.  It cements her rightful place as a Kennedy-like leader of the party. I sent her campaing $25.  A big swing from me -- cause up until now -- not a fan.

    That said, Obama couldn't have picked her as Veep.  Nothing to do with her or with him.  It's to do with the media.  To win this election it has to be Obama vs. McCain.  The media are trying to frame it as Obama vs. Obama.  If Clinton were on the ticket all the media oxygen would still be Obama vs. Clinton (will he really lead; how will things work out with bill; etc. etc.).  It just wouldn't have been wise to open the media up to that sort of misdirection.

    But I think Hillary has done a brilliant job of setting us up for something good.  She's fully supportive of Obama.  Her line about what the campaign was really about (not her, but the people she's fighting for) is brilliant.  And in return, expect her to be given Kennedy-like stature in the Democratic party.  She'll be the lead on health care reform.  She'll have huge visibility and power in the senate.  She's earned it with her campaign (I say that grudgingly) and she earned it tonight (I say that whole-heartedly).

    Meanwhile, let's keep our eyes on the ball.  If we want universal health care; if we want a world where diplomacy matters as much as bluster; if we want to take a thoughtful approach to handling the energy issue; if we want to maintain social security; if we want a government that's not about doling out hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tax cuts" to the extremely wealthy -- we need the Republicans out and the Democrats in.  And we need a team that has a Democratic president and a superb and historical Democratic leader in the senate (who happens to be a woman).

    I've had a bit of wine.  But I mean all of this from the bottom of my heart.  I'm an anti-Clinton person who wants this to work out in a way that's good for Hillary.  Maybe not Hillary in 2012.  But Hillary in 2016?  Or Chelsea in 20xx?  Keep your eye on the prize...

    Thanks for your sentiments. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:28 PM EST
    I do hope you're not surprised that she gave the speech she did tonight.

    I'm sorry to say (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:22 PM EST
    that I am.  I know on this site people like me haven't been particularly welcome.  I'm a Republican leaning Independent who had a strong dislike for the Clintons coming into this election cycle.  I also had a strong desire to vote Democratic this cycle, because the Republicans need to be out of power in the worst way.  So that adds up to Sullivan-like hostility towards Hillary.  Sorry.  And I can't say I love her every move during the campaign.

    But take that confession in the spirit intended.  There's more to Hillary than this anti-Clinton person saw.  She's won me over in the aftermath of a hard-fought battle.  And since I don't much like having strong dislike for people, I'm grateful to her for opening up room for admiration.  Tonight she was true to her best self in a way that was totally appealing.

    So now my unpleasant hateful self is all directed to McCain...


    Okay... (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:42:36 PM EST
    ... well, if you weren't a Democrat, I understand.

    What's annoyed me most are all these self-described Democrats who convinced themselves that Bill and Hillary Clinton are only in politics for themselves and were planning to sabotage Obama for their own self-interests.


    I so agree with you, Orange (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:21:57 AM EST
    They call themselves DEMOCRATS, and they probably voted for Bill - twice. How can they be so vile and hateful toward them?

    And, if they are the youth, even more...they were too young to understand anything that went on against the Clintons while they were in the WH, so the hate has no foundation.


    The media hasn't helped (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:57 PM EST
    Has it?

    Not a bit./ eot (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:03 PM EST
    That is kind of you to say (5.00 / 9) (#37)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:20 PM EST
    wine drinking or not.

    Many of us have known for years who Hillary really is and were able to not let ourselves be influenced by a male dominated, ego filled Hillary hating dufuses.

    I am sorry so many people could not see who she is.

    She is ten time better than Kennedy.  Maybe you are young.  But Kennedy challenged and incumbent dem (Carter) and was not gracious at all when he could not win.
    In fact, no other losing candidate in my four decades of watching these conventions has ever been so gracious, so amazing.

    I really think tonight was a bad night for Hillary Haters. .....but some will never let it go.


    I've let it go (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:48 PM EST
    And I'm grateful to Hillary for making that possible.

    I'm not so young.  But in 1980 I was all for Anderson (remember him??) and not affected by the Kennedy/Clinton drama.  But I do remember that Kennedy kept the bitterness going.

    And you are totally right -- the comparison just strenghtens the sense that Clinton has earned herself an extraordinary amount of respect in the years to come.


    You're right (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:04:15 AM EST
    "Her line about what the campaign was really about (not her, but the people she's fighting for) is brilliant."

    It was brilliant.  Unfortunately, it was also a line Obama couldn't have delivered with a straight face.  Which is about 40% of his current problems.

    Hillary talked about herself, but more to the point she talked about issues, about people and about our country.  I have yet to see Obama do similiar which is why many many voters believe that McCain (for crying out loud) cares more about them than Obama does.  


    We'll have to differ on this (none / 0) (#176)
    by Maggie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:34:07 AM EST
    I've always heard Obama saying it's about the change we can effect, not the change he's going to do for us.  And it's all about who the change is for.

    But that's the thing about the heat of the moment.  I never heard Clinton's better side -- but it was obviously there, since it's inspired you.  And all I can say is that Obama has inspired me.  (And not with platitudes -- but with his policies, his insight and so on.)


    I'm trying to follow this (5.00 / 3) (#182)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:41:21 AM EST
    You made your decision for Obama without listening to the other candidates?

    Point of order:  That's not a decision.  To make a decision, one must consider -- and carefully -- the options.  

    So please clarify, if I have misunderstood.  You  went for one candidate without even listening to the other candidates?  Any other candidate?  Or you only excluded Clinton from consideration without ever actually considering her?


    My story (not so much in brief) (none / 0) (#226)
    by Maggie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:42:56 AM EST
    I voted for Bush twice (sorry).  Pro-life.  

    But this time I started the cycle thinking we really need the Republicans out of office for a while to find their better selves (long since lost).  I felt this strongly enough to be willing to compromise on an issue that matters to me a lot.

    I should say I voted for B. Clinton twice (prior to my conversion on the abortion issue).  But I had been disheartened.  I'm a trained economist.  And while Clinton did put in some good policies, I couldn't miss the places where he lied about how economics works for political purposes.  In the early Bush years I saw Senator H. Clinton lie in a similar vein (you don't need all the details).  I'm an idealist sort and it rankled to see them both play politics in a way that required debasing public discourse (i.e. by counting on the masses to not know they were being lied to).  Granted it's politics as normal.  But I think because I had voted for them and because I'm an idealist I took it more personally.

    That was my starting point.  Still, when I started paying attention to this election cycle, I knew that I wanted to vote Democrat if at all possible.  And so I watched the debates with the aim of seeing the good in Clinton who at the time was the presumptive nominee.  In those debates, Clinton reminded me of her better side.  I was hopeful.

    I'm sorry to say that she lost my vote in late January when it was clear that she was going to push (if needed) to count the votes of Florida and Michigan which were not properly contested.  I know cause I've been on this site a while that you all think counting MI and FL was a matter of justice.  I've always thought counting them would be an injustice.  Elections can only count if the electorate at the time of the vote think it counts.  And (sorry) I feel that rather strongly.  It was a deal breaker for me.  The people who took the party at its word and stayed home would have been disenfranchised by counting those votes.  And democracy requires full campaigning -- which happened in neither state.  Again, I know we see this differently.  But I would ask you to see that it was this issue that decided me before I decided on a candidate and not the other way around.

    Of the remaining candidates, Obama was the clear choice.  I don't think he's perfect.  But he strikes me as having great promise.  He ran a very efficient campaign and that makes me optimistic that he will run an effective administration.  As I said, I'm an economist, and I think he has the best economists on his team -- and some of his policies in areas I know best go straight to the heart of the matter in insightful ways.  So I totally respect his intellect.  Moreover, his ability to speak to people like me who are not traditional democrats is appreciated.  I suspect it would be hard to make you see his appeal here -- but it's very strong.

    In the late stages of the campaign I saw H. Clinton's passion and commitment.  By then, my choice was made -- but I think all would agree that she became a stronger candidate as the campaign went along.  And I think it took a great deal of personal strength to handle her defeat with the enormous grace she has exemplified.  That leaves me with cognitive dissonance -- but I suspect that's just part of politics.  The way the world works, nobody can be totally honest and true and good and still win.  The rancor we have is that we choose our best candidate and then minimize the places where they stray and totally see where our opponents stray.  I've tried to explain why by the first week of February I ended up on the Obama side of the fence.

    That said, I think the McCain side of the fence is really beyond the pale.  In February I'd have told you that my ranking was Obama > McCain > Clinton.  But McCain has shown himself to be massivley disappointing.  His economics is really repugnant.  I'm not even sure I can say he should know better because unlike Clinton, he shows no sign of having any competence in the area.  That's dangerous because the economic situation is the most perilous we've seen since 1929.  This is no time for a president who has a few platitudes for an economic policy.  Clinton or Obama smash McCain on this.  My quarrels with Clinton on truth telling about economic matters pale in comparison with the colors McCain has shown.  If it were Clinton vs. McCain, I'd be knocking doors for Hillary.  I don't know if non-economists realize just how scary this economic moment is.  And while Clinton has disaffected me by being willing to play politics with her rhetoric on economics, I do think she has competence.  McCain plainly doesn't.  And the situation is scary enough that it's not obvious that a competent president can avoid catastrophe.  Why would we want to make catastrophe more likely by electing a man who is manifestly not up to the challenge?

    Sorry for going so long. The things that put me off Clinton in February pale in comparison to the exigencies of the moment.  We can't afford the Republicans at this moment.  Especially not under the 'leadership' of McCain.  He could make Hoover look brilliant.  The Bush administration has betrayed the better insights of Republican economic insights, without adopting the better insights of the Democrats.  We can't afford four more years down the current road.  We've had decades of economic stability and growth.  We're a long way from the doledrums of the 70's let alone the collapse of the 30's.  But that's what we're facing.  We need serious leaders for this.  And McCain isn't it.


    OMG! Tubin actually said (5.00 / 11) (#25)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:34 PM EST
    Hillary has now made herself blame proof. And said now it's all up to Obama. And either he or someone else on the CNN panel said now with that great speech, there is even more pressure for Obama to deliver. I think he can make a great speech, so I don't think he'll have a problem there.

    And yes, Hillary's speech was stunningly, spectacularly, amazingly stupendous. Well, that and more adjectives. :-) Perfect. Bill certainly beamed all through the speech.

    what they are talking about (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:06 PM EST
    Obama needing to "deliver", isn't a great speech, but now it's his turn to deliver props and respect BACK to the Clintons.

    AP whacks Bill. (none / 0) (#68)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:30:54 PM EST

    A convention comeuppance for Bill Clinton
     DENVER - The Comeback Kid is having a convention comeuppance.

    Bill Clinton was supposed to beam at the side of his wife at the Democratic convention as she was crowned their party's presidential nominee. Instead, he clenched back tears as his wife formally surrendered the nomination to Barack Obama and threw her full support behind her former opponent.


    AP hates Obama (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:14 PM EST
    They ran a news "analysis" about how the Biden pick was an admission that Obama is not qualified.

    And it's not like they've ever been kind to Hillary.


    Since when? (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by lmv on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:02:03 AM EST
    Maybe Fournier but he isn't the AP.

    And, his column about the Biden choice - properly labeled as opinion - sounded like he was angry Obama had betrayed his "change" message.  (I'm not a fan of his or the direction he's taking this once respected news organization.)

    Most AP pieces I've read have been over-the-top about Obama and highly critical of both Hillary and McCain.  I take all AP pieces with a grain of salt.  


    Well, it's true that we find what we're looking (none / 0) (#169)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26:54 AM EST
    for, then.

    I thought Bill's emotion was nothing but absolute pride.

    I saw an interview where Bill said he had not found the idea of moving back to the WH an appealing one.


    I thought (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:31 PM EST
    the expression was unfortunate but I truly do not believe the emotion being felt was anger.

    I saw both Hillary and Michelle speak at the EMILY's List event today and they both were incredibly gracious towards one another.  Michelle said that no one had been more supportive and helpful to her in the last few months than Hillary.  It seemed very heartfelt to me.

    I was there (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:06:35 AM EST
    I believe that Hillary was quite gracious.

    Michelle, not so much.


    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by dissenter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:41 PM EST
    And they want my vote. Unbelievable.

    Obama must earn my vote. (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by GMN on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:27 PM EST
    HRC should have been the nominee.  
    HRC should have been picked for V.P.

    HRC convinced me not to vote for McCain.  
    Only Obama can convince me to vote for Obama.  

    The price to pay for HRC in 2012 is four years of gridlock.  That price seems rather inconsequential at this moment.  

    Get busy Barack.  You need to convince me.

    Obama does need to close the deal (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:04 PM EST
    But four years of McCain is not an inconsequential price to pay.  Indeed, my own view is that it will bankrupt us all -- assuming he doesn't bomb bomb bomb Iran and unleash WW III before that happens.

    I guess you (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by GMN on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:29 AM EST
    do not believe that the Dems in the Congress will have enough spine to stop McCain.

    Given history as our guide, you may be right.


    or more war (none / 0) (#83)
    by pennypacker on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:31 PM EST
    maybe a war with Russia, maybe Supreme Court appointments...i guess a small price to pay in your opinion.

    I guess you (none / 0) (#146)
    by GMN on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:34 AM EST
    do not believe that the Dems in the Congress will have enough spine to stop McCain.

    Given history as our guide, you may be right.


    In answer to your questions (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by tdraicer on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:41 PM EST
    >Did Obama made the biggest mistake of his campaign by not choosing Hillary for his VP candidate?

    Yes. But not nearly as big a mistake as the DNC did in dragging Obama across the finish line in place of the candidate a majority of Dems supported.

    >How many Democrats will sit the election out?

    Well, this one will. So that's one.

    I won't sit (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:51 PM EST
    I will vote for the first Republican since my first vote against Reagan. This November is McSame.  I don't trust Obama.

    Nah (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:55 PM EST
    I dunno if it was stress or what, but I just don't think it could have been anger, not after the nice things I heard earlier today.  It's hard to imagine what she could have possibly been angry about during that gracious speech.

    I remember seeing Michelle's mother during her speech last night and her expression was kinda stern in a weird way, when I'm sure what she was feeling inside was pride.  Sometimes the expression doesn't convey the real story.

    Hillary was great tonight (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29:49 PM EST
    No way, no how, no McCain.

    Words to live by.

    To me, (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Lena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:22 PM EST
    it's not about Hillary Clinton. It's about Barack Obama and the Democratic party.

    If he can't adopt more of a Democratic message (especially one that strongly, firmly, and unreservedly supports universal health care), I'm not interested.

    But Obama's campaign is (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:43 PM EST
    not about the Democratic ideals, or about what's needed by joe-six-pack.  Obama's campaign is about unity, change and hope.  It's about "Obama for America", whatever that means.

    She looked relaxed and great (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:39 PM EST
    Tonight was the first time I have seen the stage. I was thinking as Gov Switzer was talking, OMG, I feel like he is standing in Toon Town with Roger Rabbit. You know the place, with odd and sharp shapes. I was expecting glitz, but not a Disney ride.

    BTW, Chelsea gets more beautiful every day. A great Mother and daughter team. Both are so proud of each other.

    yeah I don't know what McCain (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:45:47 PM EST
    saw, but I always thought Chelsea was cute and my 19 yr old son has a crush on her!   :)

    Aren't you banned (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by dissenter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:36 PM EST
    No, people with minds of their own make their own decisions. Mine is BO isn't qualified.

    Sorry, no. (5.00 / 6) (#88)
    by tdraicer on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:33:26 PM EST
    >People that are still unable to commit to anybody but Hillary - don't support Hillary.  Or they didn't watch the speech.

    Uh, no. Hillary did what she, as a loyal Democrat, had to do. But none of those who supported her (and I didn't initially btw) are obligated to follow her wherever she is forced to go.

    Ultimately it isn't about Hillary. It is about Obama. And I will never vote for someone I consider both a fraud and utterly unqualified. I've no interest in electing a Democratic President whose only likely accomplishment will be the reviving of the GOP brand.

    ah, you must mean (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:06 PM EST
    who will be voting for the emotionally hollow hope and change vs. voting to try to save a corrupt political party worth saving. Yes, I agree.

    What Obama can do to earn my vote (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:00 PM EST
    Tonight Hillary Clinton asked her supporters what it was they were fighting for?

    Was it just for Hillary Clinton or was it for the betterment of the country???!!!!

    That's the challenge she makes to her supporters and they will consider it because she speaks their language and they get it.  Yes, she probably just won the election for Obama.

    But I will still not vote for Obama.  He has chosen an acceptable running mate.  Someone who knows the war was not a bad idea, but was executed so horribly badly that now people believe that American Intervention is, by definition, a bad thing.  I am glad that Biden will be there to understand this difference where others do not.

    Now what Obama can do to earn my vote is this.  He can take a page out of Clinton's book, be a leader and make the same challenge to his supporters.

    What was it they were fighting for?  Was it just to defeat Hillary Clinton or was it for the betterment of the country?

    Now if Obama has the same kind of relationship with his supporters, and the same kind of self-confidence, if the same kind of bond that exists between Clinton and her supporters exists between Obama and his supporters, he will not have a problem challenging them on that issue.  He will do it.  And the party will come together.

    If he does that, I will vote for him in November.

    If he can't do that.  If he feels his supporters are so fickle and actually were more interested in defeating Clinton than making the country a better place, then he won't do that.  I will still see his lip quiver with insecurity every time Clinton gets a round of applause.  The terse smile on Michelle's face while Hillary Clinton speaks.

    It is time for Obama to take the next step.

    It was both. (none / 0) (#160)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:16:38 AM EST
    Was it just for Hillary Clinton or was it for the betterment of the country???!!!!

    Well sure (none / 0) (#163)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:21:04 AM EST
    But that's not really the point.

    And if Obama had the self-confidence to make the same challenge to his supporters, I am sure there would be those amongst his supporters who would say "defeating Clinton is the same as making the country better off," but then they wouldn't get the point either.


    What struck me (5.00 / 4) (#110)
    by TN Dem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:06 PM EST
    was what I saw in the eyes of those in the crowd. In the vast majority, I saw the heartbreak, and regret and admiration that mirrors my own sentiments.

    I also saw rapt attentiveness, respect and and yes, that lingering thought that I feel, will plague Obama for months to come...'what if????'

    If he loses now .... (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by Jake Left on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:40:37 PM EST
    This speech clinched it. He will have only his decisions and his efforts to blame if he fails. I know all the fan base will still blame Hillary, but everyone knows differently.

    Now it's his.

    Same old song and dance (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by Lungman424 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:52:07 PM EST
    After watching Hillary's speech, my favorite republican called me and said, "If Obama wins, it's all Clinton's fault." some mantras die hard...

    Lolololol (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by eleanora on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:07:24 AM EST
    your favorite Republican is awesome! What a great twist on IACF :D

    watching MSNBC (5.00 / 5) (#133)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:52:20 PM EST
    Rachel Maddow is talking about whether everything wil continue to be about the Cintons or if tomorrow will be about Biden.  She notes that much of the fascination about the Clintons is the fault of the media and the media's obsession.  She does all this as a member of the media who has spent WEEKS talking about the Clintons and bashing them.

    Does she somehow think she and the rest of the talking heads at MSNBC are not part of the media?

    I realize that Brokaw said that MSNBC is more than Olbermann and Matthews.  And, they are commenters, not NEWS.  So, just who did Brokaw mean were the actual NEWS persons at MSNBC?  If they have actual NEWS professionals at MSNBC, why aren't they heading the convention coverage.

    Although on a much, much (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by FemB4dem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:59:47 AM EST
    smaller scale, something else very sad that happened this year besides the Obama selection fiasco, was watching Rachel Maddow turn into an anti-feminist.  What seems like a very long time ago, now, I bought an XM radio package so I could listen to Air America, specifically the Rachel Maddow show.  I was so impressed with her.  Now, I can't even listen to her, much less watch her on MSNBarack.  My XM radio?  I've been listening to a lot of music lately -- the Sixties channel anyone?

    finally... (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:08:40 AM EST
    some talking heads make the samepoint I have asked recently.  

    With Clinton's speech tonight, she just set herself up as the second most powerful dem in the nation.  If Obama wins, he will have to rely on her stamp of approval to get what he wants through the senate.  She will be able to push legislation further to the left than he wants it.  If he had made her the VP, she would have had to go along with what the "team" wanted.  Now she will be able to push the agenda she wants in the senate.

    exactly... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:21:12 AM EST
    And those of you willing to  sacrifice our future and our childrens' futures and the planet's future by not voting for Obama and giving us 4 more years of McBush.... you really need to thing long and hard about why you're even involved in this whole process... why do you even care? If Obama gets in then Hillary is in... McCain gets in... only God knows what the nation will be like in 2012. How could you be willing to risk that????

    Puhleeze. Emotional, yes. (5.00 / 4) (#191)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:50:45 AM EST
    Breakdown?  No.

    Those are not "just words" that you used.  and from your comments here, you choose your words with careful intent.

    I cried tonight at the end of the speech, too.  And for the first time in this long, angering, appalling campaign.  But I didn't have a breakdown, either.

    Because that delegate and I will get up in the morning and get right back to work to battle against the types who use stereotypes such as you do here.

    My regret is that Hillary is not the nominee (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by Salt on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:26:13 AM EST
    and that I am denied the opportunity to vote for such a quality cnadidate which I find unacceptable.

    I (5.00 / 3) (#229)
    by sas on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:16:11 AM EST
    am heartbroken that she is not the party's nominee

    I feel so sad for the country because she is clealy Obama's superior.

    Meanwhile she has done more for Obama than has been asked by any opposition candidate ever, and with graceand strength.

    She has taken her supporters to Obama's door, and left them on the doorstep.

    It's Obama's baby now.

    Right, always "under" him (5.00 / 1) (#230)
    by DancingOpossum on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 10:08:25 AM EST
    The CDS is still alive and well, even if it's wearing a pretty, smiling face after her fantastic speech.

    I can't see any reason he might not do exactly what you said.

    Then why hasn't he done it? Sorry, but at this point I have to quote Natalie Maines and say, "Not ready to make nice." Or, for that matter, to vote BO.

    she was so great tonight, (3.00 / 1) (#167)
    by rasnyc on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26:02 AM EST
    people are having a severe case of buyers remorse.
    the bad news is, the return policy has elapsed...

    Come on you guys (2.00 / 3) (#138)
    by ajn44 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:59:27 PM EST
    I just watch an interview on Larry King of an anti-Obama Hillary supporter. The reason she doesn't want to vote for Obama is because Obama supporters aren't "nice" enough to her! This is so ridiculous to me. You have option #1: Candidate shares your policy, but you're not sure he can deliver or Option #2: Candidate doesn't share any of you views, but he has the "experience" to deliver. QUESTION: Why the HECK would you want him to deliver the views/policy you don't approve of????

    PS. Since when eight years as an Illinois legislator and three years in the U.S. Senate counts as no "experience"? What experience is everyone looking for? GW Bush had who much "experience"?

    and look what we got (5.00 / 3) (#215)
    by tlkextra on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:19:48 AM EST
    Touche (none / 0) (#220)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:24:57 AM EST
    But there were other presidents also.... Bill Clinton for example. Not a day in DC before he was elected.

    I'm starting to think (none / 0) (#36)
    by Lil on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:06 PM EST
    that Hillary told Barrack not to pick her, but he shoulda done it anyway. Goodnight y'all, it was a good one for our team.

    The purpose of the speech (none / 0) (#52)
    by DaveOinSF on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:27:07 PM EST
    It was a great speech.  But the nominal purpose of the speech was to convert her holdout supporters.  Are there any over here on TalkLeft here who prior to tonight were not yet on board with Obamq who were swayed?

    It's a long process (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST
    No one turns on a dime.  But I'm sure it moved some people closer.

    I wasn't. (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:33:21 PM EST
    She made a strong, forceful case for voting for traditional Democratic policies, as she's done so often before.

    The question is does this Democratic ticket and this Democratic Party deserve the support of those who believe in these policies? Certainly they're better than the Republicans, but one has to wonder if unquestioning support for them now will enable the same kind of weak policy and disgraceful behavior we've seen recently.


    I wasn't swayed, but I still love her (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:21 PM EST
    She didn't tell me what is so great about Obama that I should vote for him.  Being a democrat just isn't enough for me, I have to trust the guy.  But that's just me.  

    No it wasn't (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:16 PM EST
    The purpose of her speech, one she had to do, was to reach to the AA voter first, to reach to her supporters who will be there when she runs again, and finally to reach to all Democrats and tell them that she's a team player, even when she loses.  She accomplished that.  The Obama part was just a necessary ingredient.

    Why did Hillary need to reach the AA voters? (none / 0) (#117)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:23 PM EST
    Don't they already overwhelmingly support Obama?  

    I swear (none / 0) (#58)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:20 PM EST
    you could find something about heaven to criticize

    It was a great night

    What? All the clouds? (none / 0) (#121)
    by Exeter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:42:23 PM EST
    And everyone walking around barefoot and in white robes... oy vey!

    Touche (none / 0) (#125)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:43:43 PM EST
    Heaven (none / 0) (#184)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:41:51 AM EST
    "Heaven is a place
    A place where nothing
    Nothing ever happens."
      - David Byrne.

    I think you suffer from.. (none / 0) (#63)
    by TheRealFrank on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29:06 PM EST

    I'm voting for Obama and have (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Exeter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:22 PM EST
    been working to get him elected. Hillary Clinton did give a great speech, but she's not on the ballot. Obama is on the ballot and I thought his wife -- who was serving as his representative -- came off very poorly.

    Maybe she did.. (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by TheRealFrank on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:42:39 PM EST
    But I think it's going too far to automatically assume negative emotions behind her appearance.

    I've been told at various times that I look tense or even angry when I don't feel like that at all.

    I think we should give Michelle Obama the benefit of the doubt. Let's not go down the road of assuming negative things about her.


    Just Remember (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by justinboston2008 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:18 AM EST
    Michelle Obama is going into the same position Hillary was in in the 90's. We all remember how the media over analyzed her hair, her demeanor and everything. Someone who is not a fan of Michelle Obama says give her a pass on tonight.

    Well we can follow the leadership (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:36:20 AM EST
    exhibited by Obama on the issue and say that the attacks on Michelle won't be her fault but it's why he'll be able to unite the country better than she can.

    What did she have to be nervous about? (none / 0) (#81)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:19 PM EST
    I am not an emotional person, but I know what anger looks like.  

    She'd probably been listening to (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:36:58 PM EST
    too many pundits telling each other breathlessly that Hillary's speech was part of a sinister plot to derail Obama's nomination, or sabotage his election.

    suebonnett (none / 0) (#174)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:32:00 AM EST
    you've stated your view numerous times. It's bordering on a personal attack on Michelle Obama. Enough.

    I thought (none / 0) (#92)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:16 PM EST
    that he looked extremely proud.  Obviously there were a lot of different emotions going on there, and we guys don't necessarily do emotion very well!

    I agree about Bill. (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by sallywally on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:58:25 PM EST
    He looked pleased as punch. Bouncing in his seat. I loved it! I can't wait for his talk tomorrow night.

    I really really reallt want a video of her speech tonight, and probably of his tomorrow. A DVD I can play on my tv.


    When did she say that? (none / 0) (#100)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:36:01 PM EST
    Did you hear something from the beyond?

    i have to say (none / 0) (#101)
    by dws3665 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:36:08 PM EST
    that i kept thinking, "what is the deal? why won't she enjoy this? it's a grand slam!" but she maintained that forced, tight-lipped smile.

    I don't want to mind-read, but it wasn't an expression I would have expected.

    However, that will never be my lasting impression of that excellent, forceful, and (hyperbole alert) transforming speech. Not that it transformed the country, but I do believe it will transform the convention and the coverage of the convention.

    her comment was deleted (none / 0) (#177)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:34:41 AM EST
    for being insulting.

    I am confused (none / 0) (#181)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:40:33 AM EST
    I came here because I am a democratic. I want to get fired up about this election and I am the one that gets a comment deleted? You all are doing your best to tear this part apart!

    Dozens of personal attacks (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:46:39 AM EST
    on Obama were deleted from this thread. All points of view are allowed, but personal insults and attacks are deleted when we see them.

    You personally insulted the commenters on this site as a group.


    and accusing this site of (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:47:56 AM EST
    tearing the party apart is an attack. But I'll let it stay so you can see why if you continue in this vein, you will be banned.

    I didn't mean it as an attack (none / 0) (#203)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:03:04 AM EST
    I am sorry you took it that way. As I stated I found a site titled "talk left' I was excited to come here and was shocked at what I read...not what I expected.

    Opps typed to fast (none / 0) (#185)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:42:29 AM EST

    It wasn't (none / 0) (#183)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:41:22 AM EST
    I didn't think her comment was insulting (yet)... just an observation because there is a lack of unity between the candidate supporters.

    Thank you (none / 0) (#188)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:47:22 AM EST
    It wasn't meant to be insulting. I was just so so disappointed. Because I have been SOOOO frustrated with Bush and the republicans the last 8 years and I can't believe what I am reading here. I really wanted to find people with my same believes and alot of what I found here was what I hear from the right. I am so saddened that there is such a devision in this party and I truly thought Hillary's speech did much to help fix that. I came here hoping to find people who felt the same way as I do.

    you will find that (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:49:55 AM EST
    some commenters here agree with you and others don't. And as is clearly stated on our home page, the commenters do not represent the views of TalkLeft or its authors.

    If you're saddened with the division (5.00 / 4) (#198)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:00:29 AM EST
    in this party, you should speak out against the people who tore the party apart by personally attacking the Clintons as racists and/or race baiters.

    And that would just be a start.


    Seriously... (2.00 / 1) (#206)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:08:04 AM EST
    Do you ever wonder if republicans come in here to stir it up and cause bad blood?
    Initially I was undecided between Barack and Hillary because they have such similiar believes and polices so I knew I would be happy either way. Isn't that what we are voting for? Just like Hillary said so eloquently tonight. We have to vote on policy.  

    Obviously (5.00 / 2) (#212)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:17:29 AM EST
    There's no reason for you to help mend the party by speaking out against the people who smeared Clinton.

    Commercials (none / 0) (#207)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:09:23 AM EST
    But look at all the commercials McCain has due to Hillary sound bites slandering Barack. Do you think if Hillary had won, McCain would have ads of Obama slandering Hillary??? Absolutely not. Hillary got dirty.... why... because of what Obama SUPPORTERS said. Supprters say all sorts of things. No one can control that. On this site alone there are lots of anti-Obama comments. But he didn't lash out at Hillary.

    He was very good with his surrogates (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:16:32 AM EST
    I don't care.  Either you agree with the Hillary hatred or you don't.  And I still don't know where Obama stands on that issue.

    I don't agree (2.00 / 1) (#222)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:29:39 AM EST
    with "Hillary hatred". I personally like Hillary. But since I am new here, I didn't know that it occured. I have not seen Obama do or say anything negative about Hillary. Once again..I can't help but suspect that republicans come in here to cause the tension...claiming to be a supporter of one side or the other...

    You're wrong on that one (none / 0) (#213)
    by tlkextra on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:17:43 AM EST
    You're Welcome (none / 0) (#193)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:56:54 AM EST
    And I couldn't agree with you more! I just hope that all Hillary supporters realize that she and Barack represent the same thing, not just for women and African-Americans, but for the policies we all agree with. We CAN'T let bitterness or sour grapes cause us to loose this election. IT IS TOO IMPORTANT!

    The Mother of all Catharses (none / 0) (#187)
    by Ennis on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:46:57 AM EST
    Great speech.  I don't know how any liberal/progressive could now withhold their support for Obama - even if grudgingly.

    My favorite part:

    I want you to ask yourselves: Were you in this campaign just for me? Or were you in it for that young Marine and others like him? Were you in it for that mom struggling with cancer while raising her kids? Were you in it for that boy and his mom surviving on the minimum wage? Were you in it for all the people in this country who feel invisible?

    If Obama has the guts to challenge his (5.00 / 3) (#192)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:53:04 AM EST
    Supporters likewise, he will have earned my vote.

    I want you to ask yourselves: Were you in this campaign just to defeat Clinton? Or were you in it for that young Marine and others like him? Were you in it for that mom struggling with cancer while raising her kids? Were you in it for that boy and his mom surviving on the minimum wage? Were you in it for all the people in this country who feel invisible?

    If Obama says that, I'm on board.


    But (none / 0) (#196)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:59:47 AM EST
    Hillary supporters didn't ask the question "Were you in this to defeat Obama...?" Why wouldn't he just ask the same question she did "Were you in this for me...?" Why does the question have to change because Barack is asking it?

    Because the Obama movement (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:02:01 AM EST
    Really wasn't about how great Obama is, it was about how evil Hillary is.

    Aw, c'mon (none / 0) (#205)
    by Ennis on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:06:11 AM EST
    Hillary made a compelling case for supporting Obama, and said it was much more important than being loyal to her.  

    Right (5.00 / 3) (#208)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:13:20 AM EST
    Now it's time for Obama to do the same and say that hating Clinton has no place in the party.

    That supporting him is much more important than hating Clinton.


    Seriously (1.50 / 4) (#214)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:18:23 AM EST
    Love Obama! Never disliked Hillary until she started slandering Barack... but that was after he already had my support. Where are you getting the idea that Obama supporters hate Hillary? Barack can't force anyone to love Hillary. Her policies are great and sh'ed get my vote if she were the nominee, but I didn't care for her persona until tonights speech.

    That's not much of a threshold (none / 0) (#204)
    by Ennis on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:03:54 AM EST
    I can't see any reason he might not do exactly what you said.

    Welcome aboard.


    I bet he doesn't (none / 0) (#210)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:14:24 AM EST
    But he should.  I think his Hillary hating supporters are too important to him for him to challenge them on that issue.

    About you... (1.75 / 4) (#218)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:22:22 AM EST
    Edgar, you hate Barack? Even after Hillary's speech, he still doesn't have your support. Your saying Barack needs to take step to get you support, perhaps Hillary needs to take steps to gain the love of these so-called Hillary haters. She could probably start by countering those commercials she gave McCain.

    YIPEEEEEEEEEEE!! (2.00 / 1) (#217)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:21:36 AM EST
    Thank you, this is exactly how I feel. I was so hoping more would feel this way.

    We can't let McCain win. So I know that Hillary supporters have been upset. But please please look at the big picture, we simply can't afford 4 more years of the same.


    NOT 4 more YEARS..... (none / 0) (#224)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:30:11 AM EST
    4 MORE MONTHS!!!!!!

    No mistake! (none / 0) (#227)
    by caramel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:32:45 AM EST
    No mistake and no regrets as far as Hillary not being on the VP ticket. I'm no great fan of hers but I must admit the speech was excellent. If only she had behaved that way during the campaign, with that much eloquence and charisma, things might be different today. Her campaign was poorly run. She would be much better in an Obama administration, as secretary of state, than as VP...