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The Effect of Hillary's Speech

The media is using superlatives to describe Hillary Clinton's speech tonight.

The Republicans are saying she didn't do anything to dispel the idea that Obama lacks the experience to lead the country.

I think it's a great night for Democrats, but what will the final effect be?

Did Obama made the biggest mistake of his campaign by not choosing Hillary for his VP candidate? How many Democrats will sit the election out?

And yes, watching Joe Biden made me cringe.

Anita's reaction: [More...]

if that isn't high voltage leadership, I don't know what is. Barack must indeed be pleased, she just got him a few million votes. you go girl.

Update: Read Eriposte at Left Coaster.

< After Tonight, The Republicans Hate Hillary Again | Why Isn't Sen. Barack Obama in Denver? >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Yes, he messed up, but then so did the DNC. (5.00 / 13) (#1)
    by masslib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:57:40 PM EST


    He made a big mistake (5.00 / 10) (#57)
    by Grace on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:15 PM EST
    but the DNC made a bigger mistake.  

    Seriously, the speech was so powerful, I'm sad she's not our candidate.  

    [ Parent ]

    But, I have to admit (5.00 / 4) (#109)
    by tlkextra on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:05 PM EST
    during the filmed introduction, I thought (with absolutely no sarcasm), "Way to go Barrack, letting her have her moment...she earned it." I was pleased with that, although I was disturbed by Michele's glaring, whether intentional or not, she needs to learn that the cameras will always be on her and it's all about appearances for the good of the party, not just him.

    [ Parent ]
    I think she thought she was showing (none / 0) (#141)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:02:19 AM EST
    a humble face, not a glaring one. Biden had a less than attractive look going on, as well.


    [ Parent ]
    Didn't look mad to me, either (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by Emma on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:44 AM EST
    She didn't look wildly enthused, I'll grant you.  But I didn't get the mad vibe.

    [ Parent ]
    If that was a humble face... (5.00 / 5) (#175)
    by frenly on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:33:29 AM EST
    I'd hate to see angry.  MO was shooting daggers with her eyes even though she was smiling with her mouth; a sure sign of deceit.  And her mouth smile wasn't even very convincing.  As proud as I am (as a Black man) of the possibility of having her as first lady, she needs to take a page from Cindy McCain's book and learn how to smile and look pleasant all the time.  It isn't fair, but it's what political wives (and occasionally husbands) have to do.

    As for Biden.... He just looked upset the entire time.  Of course I know that both the Clinton's smiles and facial expressions are not necessarily genuine, but hey they know how to play the game better than anyone else.  And trust me, people pay attention to little things like that.  Little non-verbal cues tell the viewer volumes more than their words.  And that is Obama's problem.  He comes across as elitist because he is elite.  His blackness doesn't change that.

    The Clinton's, for all their power and success, really do spring from lower and middle class roots and that comes across to people.

    [ Parent ]

    I'd agree with that analysis (none / 0) (#153)
    by tlkextra on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:30 AM EST
    except that she broke into a big smile when her own name was mentioned.

    [ Parent ]
    HILLARY WAS/IS RIVETING! (5.00 / 7) (#97)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:46 PM EST
    Watched it with friends: we couldn't take our eyes off her and she had us on the edge of our seats for every second of the entire speech.

    FLAWLESS! What more could they possibly ask of her? If Obama loses it's all on him.

    Most poignant moment: when she asked her supporters "Did you do it for me, or for all the people"? (paraphrased).

    Stirring stuff about the Underground Railroad; she left NOTHING out.

    Did anybody catch this moment during the standing ovation? The camera was in closeup on Bill, he was tearing up and he mouthed the words: "I love you. I love you Hillary. I love you".

    That is my sentiment now more than ever.

    She made the case to vote for Obama, it couldn't have been more persuasive. But, in the process, it was strikingly clear: she was/is the superior candidate, by far.

    C'est la vie, c'est la vie.

    [ Parent ]

    I know, I kept thinking (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by tlkextra on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:19 PM EST
    - I know he's supposed to be so good at speeches, but at least she seems more natural and not obviously looking at the teleprompter.

    [ Parent ]
    I kow, (5.00 / 4) (#195)
    by Gabriele Droz on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:59:07 AM EST
    what always gets me is the obvious love they have for each other, regardless of anything thrown in their way.  Bill's head shots mirroring her sentences said it all to me.  He loves her and is totally proud of her.

    Totally sentimental here.

    [ Parent ]

    lol at Jeralyn's made me cringe remark. (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:47 PM EST
    I am sure biden will have many more cringe-worthy moments for us all.

    IMO Hilary speech will backfire (5.00 / 20) (#3)
    by Saul on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:55 PM EST
     
    Through no fault of her own her speech was so good and so electrifying that all it did IMO was galvanized even more the Hilary supporters toward her and away from Obama

    Her job was to convince her supporters that even though she lost it's time to move on and vote for Obama.  The harder she tried to convince her supporters to support Obama, the passion in her speech will just do the opposite and make those supporters not to vote for Obama.  

    The CNN interview right after the speech of a black women Hilary delegate said it all.  The delegate said "You just saw witnessed  one of the greatest presidential speeches  ever"

    You know what (5.00 / 22) (#5)
    by dissenter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:02 PM EST
    Hillary's speech was brilliant and I'm still not voting for BO. It isn't because of HILLARY. It is because of BARRACK.

    [ Parent ]
    That's Enough (5.00 / 19) (#29)
    by Athena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17:03 PM EST
    Hillary could not invent experience and a resume for Obama.  She's not a magician.

    But she still is the most qualified and electable candidate.  Tonight made that clear.  Nothing she said has improved the chance that I will vote for Obama.  If anything, the sheer incompetence of this Democratic party is on full display as they nominate a minor leaguer over a pro.

    [ Parent ]

    My reaction, exactly (5.00 / 9) (#62)
    by BigB on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:59 PM EST
    Hillary gave a terrific speech, beyond the call of duty in supporting Obama. I watched it and thought she should be the nominee. Not Obama!

    After two nights of this convention, I still don't know what Obama has accomplished in his life. None of the speakers said anything about his record.

    Her speech only made me sad that we are nominating this neophyte.

    Did Hillary's speech win me over to Obama? No!

    [ Parent ]

    Athena (none / 0) (#162)
    by JanG on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:46 AM EST
    Suspecting that some Hillary supporters are really republicans trying to sway people away from Barack Obama.....

    [ Parent ]
    It's amazingly simple: (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Grace on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:14:54 AM EST
    Barack isn't Hillary.  

    I got sad when she talked about Universal Healthcare.  He'll never pass anything remotely similar to what she wanted to try to pass.  She was an expert in this field, he isn't.  She's already paid her dues in trying to get a healthcare plan passed.      

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, (none / 0) (#209)
    by tlkextra on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:13:52 AM EST
    I read the 2008 Democratic Platform and felt it was lacking in the area of pushing for Universal Healthcare. Having spent the last 1-1/2 year going through a health crisis and treatment, I'm more aware than ever of its need. Having been self-employed, my insurance was $3500/yr premium with $3500/yr deductible. Thank goodness the coverage was mostly 100% afterward (with limitations, of course) or, well....I don't know. Probably, I would have lost my leg instead of having limb sparing surgery in addition to all my other treatment. So far, insurance has paid the reduced price of $200,000 - for anyone else, it would have been over a half million.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh, I posted before (5.00 / 12) (#6)
    by Jane2009 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:16 PM EST
    I saw this. Exactly agree with you - the speech reminded me of everything we lost out on this time around. It'll be interesting to see what Obama follows up with.

    [ Parent ]
    Video of that delegate... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by lansing quaker on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:36 PM EST
    It's already up on YouTube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6p-3kVlX8


    [ Parent ]

    good find, thanks (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:12 PM EST
    This video didn't include a lot of stuff she said before though. But one thing I missed when I watched it live was that Cooper asked Malvo to find her on Thursday to see if her mind has changed. Good to hear. That way we'll find out if she's still a delegate or if she's been kicked out. Like I said below, that will tell us a lot about the Obama campaign. And if she's still there, it will be nice to see her reaction.

    [ Parent ]
    Roy Laverne Brooks (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:31 PM EST
    here in TX was going to have her super-delegate status stripped from her because she was running against Boyd Richie, state chair and Obama backer.

    http://tinyurl.com/6bj28w

    Reviewing the history and tactics of Team Obama I bet a dollar to a dog biscuit that this delegate's status will be POOF and she will not be allowed back onto the convention floor.

    No convictions allowed.  This is the NEW Democratic Party.

    [ Parent ]

    let us know if you find out (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:51 AM EST
    of course if she's kicked out it will be a really bad move by the dnc/obama campaign. I have a feeling given that conviction and emotion, if she got kicked out, it would make her mind up, and she might just speak out about it. To CNN and others even.

    [ Parent ]
    There's more to that story (none / 0) (#129)
    by stxabuela on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:48 PM EST
    but too o/t.  I'll wait for an open thread.

    [ Parent ]
    just put a new thread up on it (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Hillary supporters tend to appreciate (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by Practically Lactating on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:23 PM EST
    the value of a fight.

    I think this speech will shave some percentage points off of holdouts, but that speech gave credence to the idea that there are some ideals that necessitate a fight.

    A large contingent of Clinton supporters are principled and feel a duty to make sure the buck stops here. Who else?

    If not now, when?

    [ Parent ]

    abolutely (1.00 / 3) (#19)
    by progrocks on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:05 PM EST
    yah, she was totally ineffective with what she was trying to convey. Glad to see that only a select few of her "supporters" think she failed, everyone who does not want McCain to be the next president think she did a great job.

    [ Parent ]
    Anne Price-Mills (5.00 / 15) (#4)
    by Jane2009 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:35 PM EST
    There was an extremely articulate and passionate woman interviewed on CNN right after - Anne Price-Mills; she's a delegate from Texas, I think. She basically said, after watching Hillary, that the DNC blew it, and "you saw it" - Hillary's potential to be a great president, "That speech was presidential." She was also asked how she planned to vote in Nov., and said, "I won't vote for McCain" but "Obama has 2 months to make his case." Right now, she just doesn't know if she can vote for him.

    She spoke for me, that's for sure.

    yes, she was fantastic (5.00 / 6) (#16)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:25 PM EST
    I really felt for her and loved that she expressed the pain a lot of us feel watching what could have been one of the greatest presidencies and of course so historic.

    I have a bad feeling that she will immediately be kicked out as a delegate though. I wonder if there is any way to find out if she is allowed back in tomorrow. And if she is kicked out (like others that have expressed doubt), will that push her over the edge and help her make a decision on her vote. Like she said, Obama has to make his case and prove he has what it takes, and I think how this wonderful woman is treated will tell us a lot.

    [ Parent ]

    Kicked out?! (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:04 PM EST
    You can't be serious!  Would they really kick her out for not agreeing to vote for Obama?  

    What has happened to our party?  Has it become some kind of communist group think that must prevail?  

    I'm sorry, but this is frightening.  If they kick out that lovely, struggling DEMOCRAT, that's just too much.  Intolerable to have such an intolerant party.  

    [ Parent ]

    she wouldn't be the first (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:48 PM EST
    if she is. There is at least one woman who is now in a McCain commercial after she got kicked out. Not the smartest thing to do IMO.

    [ Parent ]
    Let Them Even Try! (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:33 PM EST
    The DNC will regret it if they did such a thing.

    She said she will NOT vote for McCain, and she WILL vote for Hillary tomorrow. She did not commit to Obama, and for good reason. Obama has to work hard in the next two months to win her over.

    He'd better if he knows what's good for him, b'cos there will be hundreds of thousands, maybe a couple of million who are just like her.

    They are being fair and giving him time to earn their vote.

    [ Parent ]

    What I particularly liked (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by tlkextra on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:36 PM EST
    from that interview was that she confronted the CNN reporter - saying "you have to admit, that speech was Presidential, and when you start to pick it apart, and you will, you have to admit...that speech was Presidential". I kept waiting for CNN to cut away from her (to silence her), but she articulated well what many people feel - HE now has two months to convince us otherwise. Since Anderson Cooper said they need to follow up with her after Obama's speech, hopefully that means she'll stick around. I also noted that immediately after the speech Campbell Brown was gushing about how good it was. Then, after a commercial, she comes back, arms folded, attacking, because as she noted, "she got emails..." Way to go, Campbell, great reporting, let someone else tell you what to say.

    [ Parent ]
    Mills (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Athena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:49:05 PM EST
    She was awesome.  I'm guessing that at least 2 million CNN voters saw her testimonial to Hillary right after the speech.  She certainly spoke for me.

    [ Parent ]
    C'mon, no one is going to kick her out (none / 0) (#76)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:34 PM EST
    of the convention, get real.  

    [ Parent ]
    Private Organization (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:15:01 AM EST
    Technically, they can kick her out.  Others have been replaced in the individual states for those who are considered more loyal.  It is a private club.  If you will not commit to voting for the Democratic candidate no matter what, they can strip a person of their delegate status. It is the party's right.

    They won't in this case.  It would be a media nightmare.

    [ Parent ]

    agree (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26:09 AM EST
    both that they have the right and that it would be really stupid. It's a country club. Well, except they don't have pools or tennis courts or anything like that. What a rip off.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeh. Btw, the delegate who WAS kicked out (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:29:31 AM EST
    from Wisconsin is in Denver, too.  Could be some more TV coverage coming.  And perhaps some questions about arbitrariness, as the one from Wisconsin was kicked out but not the one from Colorado -- and now, if this one isn't kicked out, either. . . .

    But then, arbitrary and capricious has become the slogan of the DNC this year.  

    [ Parent ]

    wouldn't be the first (none / 0) (#149)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:32 AM EST
    I'm glad you think that. And I hope you're right. If she is kicked out, I think that will speak volumes about Obama's character though.

    [ Parent ]
    Hah. You're not here. (none / 0) (#178)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:35:21 AM EST
    You're not talking every day to Clinton delegates who are being railroaded into not performing their duties as elected Clinton delegates. Whoa re being threatened with replacement.

    I would not put it past them at all. They've done it to too many others already.

    [ Parent ]

    I thought it was a fantastic speech. (5.00 / 13) (#7)
    by Iphie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:58 PM EST
    Well written and well delivered. I think the problem for the Obama campaign now is that she was too good. Biden is just nowhere near her league -- I think we're going to see as many clips of her speech following Biden's speech as we will of his, and the comparison won't be kind to Biden. And now, not only does Obama have to top his 2004 speech, he has to top her speech as well.

    Interesting (5.00 / 4) (#136)
    by cal1942 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:57:39 PM EST
    you should mention Obama's 2004 keynote address.

    We were told to be prepared for a stunning speech. In my judgement he never made it to the awards stand. At the 2004 convention I rated the speeches: 1 Bill Clinton, 2 John Kerry, 3 John Edwards, 4 Al Sharpton (for that great line that brought everyone to their feet).

    I felt completely let down, that the speech was dullingly mediocre. A keynote speech should be a call to arms. This guy gave us warmed over unity trash; a preview of coming detractions.

    [ Parent ]

    True, (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:57 AM EST
    I thought it was a good speech, but not the earth-moving spectacle everyone told me it was afterwards. Even if it's true though, the myth that it was some sort of model of oratorical greatness is out there and that is what he now has to contend with -- he's got to surpass the hype -- and now Hillary just raised the bar even higher.

    [ Parent ]
    Like Ferraro following Cuomo... (none / 0) (#102)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:36:23 PM EST
    ... in 1984.

    After Cuomo's electrifying speech in 1984, Ferraro paled in comparison, as almost anyone would have. And I understand as Cuomo was wrapping up, a lot of people were thinking, "Why isn't he our presidential nominee?"

    [ Parent ]

    Because (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:45 PM EST
    he would never get in the %@!^#@& race!!!  Grr.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly. Man, what a missed opportunity. (none / 0) (#134)
    by masslib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:54:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Because the Establishment (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by Landulph on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:40:03 PM EST
    supported Walter Mondale, and the SuperDs had to drag him across the finish line. And aren't you happy how that turned out in the end?

    [ Parent ]
    No way Mondale could've beat Reagan. (none / 0) (#170)
    by magnetics on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:28:06 AM EST
    Sad for the country, but true.  I doubt any Dem could have done it; the Ray-gun image machine was too much for any of them, including Cuomo.  

    IMO Reagan was actually our worst president, worse than GWB, whose ascent he enabled.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, Obama blundered (5.00 / 18) (#8)
    by democrat1 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:17 PM EST
    If he loses the election, I think it is possible, his VP selection will be one of the top reasons for his loss.

    His arrogance and lack of grace will be the cause of his down fall

    here's my thought (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST
    about the media.  They talking heads are now being so NICE about Hillary because they is no longer any danger that she will be on t he ticket.

    I just wrote a scathing (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:28 PM EST
    note to MSNBC.

    I will do like Hillary, put aside my personal reservations and do what I think is best for the country.
    But I will let the media (and especially people like Maddow) know how I think they interfered with the democratic process and hurt women.

    I am thrilled that there is now no way those idiots in the press can blame any mess up by the Obama campaign on Hillary.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh, I think they'll find a way. (none / 0) (#56)
    by miriam on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:13 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Can we please boycott MSNBC? Just (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:11 PM EST
    stop watching them!!!!

    [ Parent ]
    Hear, hear!! (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:00 AM EST
    I completely agree. And, for those who just can't resist the car accident, try to refrain from sharing.


    [ Parent ]
    Done. n/t (none / 0) (#150)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:46 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    A repeat of 2000 (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by AX10 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:43:08 PM EST
    once Gore conceded to the Republican version of Obama, the media lauded his greatness and humility.
    It is a hollow victory.  I am not going to accept this bull again. McCain 08'!

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:06:55 PM EST
    for everyone's feedback on Hillary's speech.  I cannot bring myself to watch her or Bill Clinton because I know it would just be too upsetting, and I don't want to give BHO's coronation ANY improved audience ratings.

    Good to know that Hillary had a great moment at the convention, made her case, and brought the audience to a frenzied moment.  I heard Dennis Kucinich was pretty electric today, too.

    And I know why the likes of Hillary and Dennis were "electric", because they are REAL Democrats (esp Dennis Kucinich).  

    And as for Mrs. Obama's seemingly less than enthusiastic reactions to Senator Clinton, it would behoove her husband's campaign for her to "get on board" and get over it.  The Obamas will never be the Clintons and she will never have the spot in America's electorate that Hillary has right now.

    Joe Biden?  Cringe worthy?  GET outta town!!!

    She was great, phenomenal (none / 0) (#27)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:19 PM EST
    Her message, or at least my distillation of it:  If you vote for McCain, you will be doing a disservice to what she stands for, for our country, and for its future.  

    [ Parent ]
    What Hillary said (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by Practically Lactating on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:37 PM EST
    Good on you for doing what Hillary said.

    For someone that thinks for myself, I will vote my conscience.

    [ Parent ]

    I happen to agree with her (none / 0) (#112)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    My impression (5.00 / 12) (#11)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:09 PM EST
    The reaction was almost stronger among the Obama supporters as among the Clinton supporters, in the sense that all doubts about Hillary's good faith were completely washed away.  Some of them probably felt a little guilty about it.

    This, in the long run, has the effect of lowering the temperature on all sides.  That means less of the anti-Clinton comments that tend to stoke the flames.  Slowly, tensions ratchet down.

    I know that all of the Obama skeptics will make an individual choice in the end, some will vote for the ticket, some will not.  But none of them can deny that Hillary made an awfully good case.

    They should feel guilty (5.00 / 13) (#15)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:13 PM EST
    Anyone who watched the concession speech in the spring knew exactly what to expect.

    The efforts to disappear that previous speech have amazed me.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually, and garden (none / 0) (#194)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:56:59 AM EST
    their trying to disappear that speech did not surprise me at all. It's as I said above, the lights will be burning late tonight among the hidden lairs of the Clinton detractors seeking ways to twist and distort this speech... if nothing can be found, there will be complete silence.

    [ Parent ]
    Already done (none / 0) (#202)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:02:23 AM EST
    The right wingers has already stated "It wasn't that great" Don't you watch FOX news...LOL!!! (I can't believe that it is actually a news station)!

    [ Parent ]
    Well... (5.00 / 13) (#26)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:55 PM EST
    ... as you say, anyone who knows anything about Hillary Clinton knew she was going to give a speech like this. She is too much of a staunch Democrat to ever not support the Democratic ticket. If anyone thought otherwise, they were too drunk on their own Hillary-hatred.

    I don't know how her supporters will react. Maybe I'm just a lost cause, but when I see Obama supporters--the same ones who called her racist repeatedly--express surprised admiration that she actually, you know, supports the Democratic Party, I remember everything they said during the primaries.

    [ Parent ]

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:19:44 PM EST
    Sooner or later the hard feelings have a way of subsiding.  For some of us it's sooner and for others it's later.  Everyone has to move forward in their own way.

    My personal way of coping is that I will vote for Obama, I will write nice diaries about him at MyDD, but I will always oppose Jesse Jackson Jr. for any office, anywhere, as long as I live.  Your mileage may vary, but that's what works for me!

    [ Parent ]

    I haven't decided how I'm voting... (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:47 PM EST
    Certainly not for McCain, but after that, I'm not sure.

    Currently, I'm taking the flood of mail solicitations for money from the DCCC and DSCC and dumping it straight into the recycle bin. I'm deleting the parade of email solicitations for money without reading them. They're not getting a penny from me this time.

    The Obama establishment has to convince me they genuinely respect Hillary Clinton and her voters, and I'm not sure they can ever do that, because I don't think they do. They need her voters and want their money, but that's different.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Nadai on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:27:18 PM EST
    still mad at my 6th grade teacher.  I suspect that for me, it'll be later.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    The other day (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:50 PM EST
    I told my dad that I was still a little peeved that he wouldn't let me go on a field trip when I was in the 2nd grade.

    He was a little shocked that I would even remember such a thing, but you know how it is, some stuff stays with you!

    My opinion is that everyone comes around at their own pace, but every time some fool says "get over it already," the clock basically restarts.  For my part, I give people the space to make their own decisions, because it's the respectful thing to do.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by JThomas on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:21 PM EST
    just did a wonderful job out there tonite. I am amazed at how good she has become as a public speaker...she is as good or better than Bill!

    She came off as truly sincere and put the american people ahead of herself in saying that we simply cannot afford another four years of the same old Bush policies.
    Thank you Hillary Clinton.

    I have always (none / 0) (#199)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:01:21 AM EST
    enjoyed Bill's speeches. I look forward to hearing him again.

    [ Parent ]
    I Have My Doubts (5.00 / 8) (#13)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:08:39 PM EST
    I'm sure everyone would like to think that Hillary hit it out of the park tonight, and that all is well. All the hold-outs will fold back in and Obama will sail into the White House.

    However, as that delegate, Anna Knowles, so eloquently stated (in as many words), the ball's in Obama's court and he needs to close the sale within the next two months.

    Some people may feel compelled, not to vote for McCain, but NOT to VOTE AT ALL, because they just don't feel the person at the top of ticket is worthy of their vote.

    Hillary did everything, and more, of what was expected of her tonight. NO ONE can pick fault with her now, and I PRAY they lay off her and stop hounding her.

    It is Obama's turn to close the ring of Unity.

    Yes, Bill has a speech to make, but he's a former Democratic President. He is owed the time to talk about his accomplishments and his vision for the party her lead for two terms in the White House. He does not owe anything to Obama, except maybe a word or two of support. It's not his job to rally Hillary's supporters. She did that already.

    Obama's must close the ring of Unity. There is no other way or option if he wants a better shot at the White House. He made his Veep pick. Now he needs to sell himself and quite literally, beg the hold-outs by stating specifics of his vision and ask them to support him.

    "by stating specifics of his vision" (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:22:44 AM EST
    Yes, this is really the key, isn't it. The problem, or at least part of it, is that experience gives force to the expression of specifics and Obama cannot keep bringing up his experiences working on Chicago's South Side. That is only one tiny part of a very large country. Here is this first term Senator who has accomplished very little... and much of what he has done I find upsetting.

    I will say this... it's a good thing that their speeches are on different days because set side by side the contrast in their experience would reveal the vagueness of his ideas.

    [ Parent ]

    "specifics" (1.50 / 2) (#221)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:28:20 AM EST
    Again I ask, did u have specifics from Hillary or McCain? NO! They all give u the same amount of "detail". Barack was just a bit more eloquet with his info.

    [ Parent ]
    Sure (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:09:07 PM EST
    Obama made a huge mistake. But Hillary cleaned it up a ton tonight.

    I can not tell you how good a speech that was tonight.

    This is a close election (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:50 PM EST
    and Hillary might have bought Obama just enough votes to put him over the top tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    It would be premature (5.00 / 13) (#22)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:13:36 PM EST
    and dare I say, presumptuous, to believe that.

    There's still a lot of work to be done, and that responsibility is all Barack's.

    Hillary's done her part. He needs to close the sale.

    [ Parent ]

    wishful thinking (5.00 / 5) (#135)
    by lmv on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:55:46 PM EST
    This speech reminded America why Hillary should have been the nominee.  That won't lead to votes.  

    The 30% voting for McCain know Hillary wants them to support Obama and they've already decided to ignore her.  

    And, the more people see of Obama, the less they like him.  That's exactly what we saw in the primary.  Why would the GE be different?

    One more thing, Michelle's angry responses didn't help mend fences.  She only smiled when her husband was mentioned and looked positively furious when Hillary mentioned her husband.  The bad blood undercuts the unity message.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary's speech (none / 0) (#225)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:31:33 AM EST
    may not cause Hillary voters to vote for Obama, but I think it did a great job of explaining why they should not vote for McCain. So in the long run I think it did a lot in that direction -- pulling former Hillary voters away from McCain to... perhaps not voting the top of the ticket at all.  

    [ Parent ]
    Really? Do you seriously think (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by cosbo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:00:49 AM EST
    people's memory are going to last that long? In a couple of days it will be McCain's turn to name the VP and I'm guessing that he'll pick a woman, thereby shifting the conversation yet again.

    Hillary's speech was fantastic tonight and the high from that will probably fade  in a few days. Our attention spans are real short these days.

    What her speech will probably accomplish is a short term appearance of "unity". It'll probably last as long as the rest of  the convention.

    [ Parent ]

    We'll see. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Landulph on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:06 PM EST
    Her campaign suspension speech was also well received, and Obama's been dipping since then. We will see if this proves longer lasting.

    [ Parent ]
    BTD - (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Lena on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:14:09 PM EST
    I can't help but wonder whether your effusive praise for Clinton's speech has anything to do with the fact that she was wearing Gator orange. Against a blue backdrop....

    [ Parent ]
    She was wearing blue and orange (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:01:07 AM EST
    Denver Bronco colors.

    Around here the fanatics say that blue ad orange sunsets are proof that God is Broncos fan.

    I expected her to wear white as an homage to the suffragettes, as many women did in the 18 Million Voices march today.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually, yellow and purple (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:35:44 AM EST
    were the suffrage colors.  Often combined with white, but yellow was the color of one main organization, purple the color of the other -- until the merger, and then they were combined.

    White was the color of the temperance women, thus called the "White Ribboners."

    Just for the record.  I know, I know I wage a losing battle for historical authenticity.  And it's the spirit that counts, so I'm glad for the suffrage parade today.  Also glad that there are no reports of men behaving as they did in the suffrage parades of yore.  

    I guess that's progress. But somehow, after so many Women's Equality Days for me, I don't feel tonight that we've made real progress at all.

    [ Parent ]

    She hit it out of the Invesco Center, out of the (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:05 PM EST
    park, out of downtown.

    Way out of Denver, maybe to Winter Park or possibly Copper Mountain. Aspen? Steamboat? Is it still saiing on toward California?

    So d*mn good.

    Tavis Smiley thinks Hillary may have established a new goal to beat in political speeches. Not just a personal best, but possibly a national record, maybe world record. Gold medal time!

    [ Parent ]

    NYTimes reporter, Jody Somebody, said it's been (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:47 PM EST
    a long time since Obama's given a really great speech and she wonders how he'll do.

    Wow. Mr. Best Orator Evah??

    And if Obama thinks he'll get away without a roll call vote! Amazing if true--and can he do that? Inefficient to have the states give their vote counts! Crikey.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree with her (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:16:41 AM EST
    The 2004 Convention was the last great one. He has since picked up this odd pattern of hesitating at points in his sentences and then loud and down with the last word. It is impossible for me to listen to it, and if I can't listen, he's going to have a tough time convincing me to vote for him.


    [ Parent ]
    Where did you see Tavis Smiley's (none / 0) (#156)
    by Iphie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:13:17 AM EST
    comments? I would be very curious to see/read his words in full.

    [ Parent ]
    I didn't want Hillary to run for president--and at (5.00 / 10) (#17)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:48 PM EST
    first I was an Edwards backer. When I saw he was fading, I began to intensely investigate Obama's political history and searched and searched and searched for information. Few blogs were doing any backgrounders on him as many had "seen the light." Indeed, when I would post articles and ask for discussion, if there was anything in the reports which did not fluff Obama, there would be angry retorts to my having posted such dreck (those ol' devil facts).

    I felt Hillary did not have a good speaking style, that her voice tended to tense up and she could sound strained. I feared she would lose her voice and the tension in the voice seemed to indicate tension within her.

    Boy, has she grown as a campaigner, speaker.

    Hillary does passion--with control and honesty. She does some vocal changes and humor, which I hadn't thought she could do. She can answer questions without getting lost in a word fog or word cloud. Her fervor comes through clearly, as her ideas come through clearly.

    She has truly grown and flowered.

    Drat, drat, drat. Why did the MCM have to put their massive thumb on the scales???

    Dems, it's still not too late!!! Think about it!


    Forgot to add that it was all my research which (5.00 / 7) (#41)
    by jawbone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:57 PM EST
    caused me to support Hillary. I figured I knew everything about her--but I didn't because the MCM didn't talk about lots of aspects of her career and accomplishments. Example: I never knew she had been an early proponent of micro lending and got it instituted in Arkansas.  Who knew?

    That along with her excellent debates. And I couldn't find answers to what Obama actually would do--I still don't have those answers, alas. And what I did find about his politicking made me wary of whether he had firm principles.

    Tonight, at long last, Charlie Rose and panel are addressing the fact that Obama has never tied his ideas together into any framework. Jacob Weisberg said he has lots of ecoomic planks, but they've never been put together to create a ship.

    (Obama supporter says Obama has been totally specific. He counted 147 specific econ proposals! Hels laid it all out! Huh??? Thinks people are challenging Obama too much, esp'ly on race issues.)

    Which is why Anita was asking "What's the message? Where's the message?"

    And so many voters are asking, over and over and over, what will he actually do? Intend to do? What changes? Where will he take the nation?  

    [ Parent ]

    What about the others (3.00 / 1) (#173)
    by ajn44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:29:55 AM EST
    Do we actually know what Hillary or McCain's message is? What they will actually do? Do we have their answers in detail...like we're asking of Obama? It seems to me that he's saying the exact same things Hillary is, except he may say them a bit more eloquently... though I feel like his speech skills have been slacking up. I can wait to hear him on Thursday.

    [ Parent ]
    Didn't see it. (5.00 / 15) (#20)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:06 PM EST
    It would have made my heart break again. But I'm not at all surprised that she did a terrific job. She's always been a tremendous advocate for Democratic policies, much more so that most of the milquetoast people who pass for Democratic leaders these days.

    Will it have any effect? I don't know. She gave a similarly rousing and well-received speech in her concession in June, and that didn't do a whole lot for Obama. Her supporters all already knew that she was supporting the Democratic ticket.

    As for me, maybe I'm just stubborn. But when I see Hillary and what could have been, and when I see these fair-weather folks who are praising her now after calling her racist for months, I get even angrier.

    Was I just in it for you, Hillary? Well, I was in it because I believed in your leadership and your ideas. You showed me over and over again why I was proud to support you. But someone has to hold the party accountable for the way it treated you. If not your supporters, then who?

    Yes (5.00 / 12) (#44)
    by Nadai on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:20 PM EST
    But when I see Hillary and what could have been, and when I see these fair-weather folks who are praising her now after calling her racist for months, I get even angrier.

    I made the mistake of going over to DKos to see the reaction.  Most of them are all lovey now - they "forgive" her.  I cannot express how much I loathe those people.

    [ Parent ]

    I haven't been there in months. (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:00 PM EST
    Never again.

    [ Parent ]
    They forgive HER? (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:36 PM EST
    I can see that I was right to stay away from the orange place tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    And every other night (5.00 / 5) (#113)
    by Nadai on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:52 PM EST
    But, yeah, they forgive her.  All I can say is, they're all very very lucky my eyes can't shoot laser beams through the tubes, or there'd be a couple hundred people with holes in them.

    [ Parent ]
    KOS and his followers (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by BigB on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:48 PM EST
    have shown themselves to be very small-minded people.

    [ Parent ]
    and destructive to the dem party n/t (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:47:41 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I hear you on the loathing (5.00 / 3) (#216)
    by mary kate on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:59 AM EST
    I try to remind myself that they're cultists, really, for whom somebody should have staged an intervention last February or so, and that they're more to be pitied than scorned, caught up in the grip of forces that they don't seem willing or able to understand, their political passions being exploited for purposes they apparently cannot even begin to fathom.  Well, I try, but: mostly I fail.  I just about purely loathe them.

    The group "forgiveness" is all of a piece with the creepy herd dynamic that animates that site: lovebombing, hatebombing, and etc.  And when it comes to the treatment of and attitudes toward women, it's like Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter gone digital!

    For the owner/founder of that website, I have lost all respect.  And to think I once used to defend    him against what I thought were baseless accusations that he was running a hate site. Ha!    Joke was on me, I guess.

    [ Parent ]

    Kudos (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:27 PM EST
    I've always been an Obama supporter.  I was overwhelmed by Clinton's speech tonight.  It cements her rightful place as a Kennedy-like leader of the party. I sent her campaing $25.  A big swing from me -- cause up until now -- not a fan.

    That said, Obama couldn't have picked her as Veep.  Nothing to do with her or with him.  It's to do with the media.  To win this election it has to be Obama vs. McCain.  The media are trying to frame it as Obama vs. Obama.  If Clinton were on the ticket all the media oxygen would still be Obama vs. Clinton (will he really lead; how will things work out with bill; etc. etc.).  It just wouldn't have been wise to open the media up to that sort of misdirection.

    But I think Hillary has done a brilliant job of setting us up for something good.  She's fully supportive of Obama.  Her line about what the campaign was really about (not her, but the people she's fighting for) is brilliant.  And in return, expect her to be given Kennedy-like stature in the Democratic party.  She'll be the lead on health care reform.  She'll have huge visibility and power in the senate.  She's earned it with her campaign (I say that grudgingly) and she earned it tonight (I say that whole-heartedly).

    Meanwhile, let's keep our eyes on the ball.  If we want universal health care; if we want a world where diplomacy matters as much as bluster; if we want to take a thoughtful approach to handling the energy issue; if we want to maintain social security; if we want a government that's not about doling out hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tax cuts" to the extremely wealthy -- we need the Republicans out and the Democrats in.  And we need a team that has a Democratic president and a superb and historical Democratic leader in the senate (who happens to be a woman).

    I've had a bit of wine.  But I mean all of this from the bottom of my heart.  I'm an anti-Clinton person who wants this to work out in a way that's good for Hillary.  Maybe not Hillary in 2012.  But Hillary in 2016?  Or Chelsea in 20xx?  Keep your eye on the prize...

    Thanks for your sentiments. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:28 PM EST
    I do hope you're not surprised that she gave the speech she did tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm sorry to say (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:22 PM EST
    that I am.  I know on this site people like me haven't been particularly welcome.  I'm a Republican leaning Independent who had a strong dislike for the Clintons coming into this election cycle.  I also had a strong desire to vote Democratic this cycle, because the Republicans need to be out of power in the worst way.  So that adds up to Sullivan-like hostility towards Hillary.  Sorry.  And I can't say I love her every move during the campaign.

    But take that confession in the spirit intended.  There's more to Hillary than this anti-Clinton person saw.  She's won me over in the aftermath of a hard-fought battle.  And since I don't much like having strong dislike for people, I'm grateful to her for opening up room for admiration.  Tonight she was true to her best self in a way that was totally appealing.

    So now my unpleasant hateful self is all directed to McCain...

    [ Parent ]

    Okay... (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:42:36 PM EST
    ... well, if you weren't a Democrat, I understand.

    What's annoyed me most are all these self-described Democrats who convinced themselves that Bill and Hillary Clinton are only in politics for themselves and were planning to sabotage Obama for their own self-interests.

    [ Parent ]

    I so agree with you, Orange (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:21:57 AM EST
    They call themselves DEMOCRATS, and they probably voted for Bill - twice. How can they be so vile and hateful toward them?

    And, if they are the youth, even more...they were too young to understand anything that went on against the Clintons while they were in the WH, so the hate has no foundation.


    [ Parent ]

    The media hasn't helped (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Prabhata on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:57 PM EST
    Has it?

    [ Parent ]
    Not a bit./ eot (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:03 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    That is kind of you to say (5.00 / 9) (#37)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:20 PM EST
    wine drinking or not.

    Many of us have known for years who Hillary really is and were able to not let ourselves be influenced by a male dominated, ego filled Hillary hating dufuses.

    I am sorry so many people could not see who she is.

    She is ten time better than Kennedy.  Maybe you are young.  But Kennedy challenged and incumbent dem (Carter) and was not gracious at all when he could not win.
    In fact, no other losing candidate in my four decades of watching these conventions has ever been so gracious, so amazing.

    I really think tonight was a bad night for Hillary Haters. .....but some will never let it go.

    [ Parent ]

    I've let it go (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Maggie on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:48 PM EST
    And I'm grateful to Hillary for making that possible.

    I'm not so young.  But in 1980 I was all for Anderson (remember him??) and not affected by the Kennedy/Clinton drama.  But I do remember that Kennedy kept the bitterness going.

    And you are totally right -- the comparison just strenghtens the sense that Clinton has earned herself an extraordinary amount of respect in the years to come.

    [ Parent ]

    You're right (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:04:15 AM EST
    "Her line about what the campaign was really about (not her, but the people she's fighting for) is brilliant."

    It was brilliant.  Unfortunately, it was also a line Obama couldn't have delivered with a straight face.  Which is about 40% of his current problems.

    Hillary talked about herself, but more to the point she talked about issues, about people and about our country.  I have yet to see Obama do similiar which is why many many voters believe that McCain (for crying out loud) cares more about them than Obama does.  

    [ Parent ]

    We'll have to differ on this (none / 0) (#176)
    by Maggie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:34:07 AM EST
    I've always heard Obama saying it's about the change we can effect, not the change he's going to do for us.  And it's all about who the change is for.

    But that's the thing about the heat of the moment.  I never heard Clinton's better side -- but it was obviously there, since it's inspired y