After Tonight, The Republicans Hate Hillary Again

What a speech! In that moment, at that time, just an unbelievable speech. If you saw it, there is nothing I can write that can do it justice.

Here's my bottom line, after tonight, the Republicans hate Hillary again. It was a dagger through McCain's political heart.

Barack Obama will be the President of the United States. But remember this, the reports of the political death of Hillary Clinton were greatly exaggerated.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Hillary's Speech | The Effect of Hillary's Speech >
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    Honestly, when was the last time (5.00 / 10) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:45:45 PM EST
    Hillary gave a bad speech? She's very good at hitting the right note. She did it in her concession in the spring, which was equally good to this speech, and she did it again tonight.

    Remember what happened after that speech? Obama's numbers went way up. I think that will happen again, I just hope it will last.

    Alex Castellanos said just now that this was the "lesser of two evils" speech. Well, guess what: that's enough in the voting booth!

    Good job Hillary, as usual, as I expected.

    Hillary haters are will just be irrational tomorrow, as they always have been.

    Anybody who doubted her ability (5.00 / 10) (#154)
    by Cream City on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:19 PM EST
    at making a speech that changes history just never bothered to listen before.  For a long time before.

    All over the web for years now, and in books for far longer, there are videos and transcripts of her amazing Beijing speech that has changed history for women around the world, and thus the men who do love them. I've linked it before, but here it is again.  And there are analyses and essays abounding about its impact on women worldwide.

    Frankly, it is tiresome to me to hear this shock and awe from the media, especially, but also others who apparently never bothered to hear her before.  That sort of ignorance is not bliss.  It is just ignorance.  And look where it has led us.



    Exactly (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:47:44 PM EST
    Every single speech she gave during the primary was seen through the lense of CDS.

    This lavish praise is ridiculous.


    Her speech in Beijing (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by eleanora on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:52:10 PM EST
    was remarkable, not just for its time but for all time. "Women's rights are human rights," you can't say it more clearly than that. When people disrespect her for not making a big speech in the primaries about women like Obama did about race, I tend to go all capslock ragey, "SHE DID IT ALREADY IN 1995, WHERE WERE YOU?" >:(

    Please don't say irrational (none / 0) (#106)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:05 PM EST
    if you listened to that speech and heard what she said in re to women and mothers, then you might get some insight intowhat you are calling irrational.

    She gave a great speech and she saved his ass tonight. It is about an election not irrational women.


    No (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:05 PM EST
    she didn't save his ass. If he continues down the road he's been on and doesn't follow her lead he's going to fry himself.

    Please read my comment again (none / 0) (#117)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:51 PM EST
    Don't skim, actually read it.

    Even Republicans can appreciate that HRC (none / 0) (#142)
    by Cards In 4 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:15 PM EST
    would have been a tougher candidate to run against. Look at how she cleaned his clock at the end.  There was a reason Rush wanted people to vote for her.  The GOP diehards would mobilize against her but it would only get McCain to within 5 or 6 points if he's lucky.

    You don't have to like her to marvel at her skills as a candidate.  Fortunately for the GOP enough Democrats (and media members) felt otherwise.  


    Whatever Hillary has said will not make one (5.00 / 12) (#3)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:46:59 PM EST
    whit of difference if obama doesn't get his act together....just sayin'

    CNN interviewed a Hillary delegate (5.00 / 6) (#47)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:46 PM EST
    right after the speech. A black woman who was showing her emotion over Hillary not being the candidate. She was magnificent. I never could have been so clear-headed with the list of reasons why Hillary was the right one in that state of mind.

    She said she still couldn't vote for Obama, but also wouldn't vote for McCain. In an exasperated sigh she said he just isn't qualified to do all the things we need done.

    Anderson Cooper asked Susan Malveaux to try to track this same delegate down after Biden and Obama speak to see if anything came along to change her mind.


    True RE: Obama (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by Claw on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:29 PM EST
    But let's be honest.  This speech was electrifying.  If anything, it puts quite a burden on Obama to give a speech anywhere close in quality, humor, emotion, passion.  I do not agree with others here who think that we nominated the wrong person.  If we unite around Obama, we'll win (and we really have to.)  If we don't unite, we'll probably lose.  
    I'm sure you'll be able to find lunatics on the internet who think that Clinton didn't do enough.  Keep in mind that they are crazy and really do not represent the average Obama voter.

    obama continues to give many voters a (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:42 PM EST
    reason not to unite around him.  If he is waiting for a free ride; he has an awfully long wait.  It is time that EVERYONE, dems and repubs alike, concentrate on who will be serve the country, not their party.  Frankly, obama hasn't shown much imo.

    I'm trying to figure out why he isn't at the (5.00 / 0) (#120)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:20:17 PM EST
    convention. Is this normal for the presumptive to stay away and not shake hands with the delegates?

    That I can't say, but if I had been watching, (1.00 / 0) (#143)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:22 PM EST
    I wouldn't have missed him :)  

    Actually, I think it is (none / 0) (#127)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:38 PM EST
    Didnt the Clinton Gore bus thing extend into the beginning of the convention?  It seems like a long time ago.

    The tour was after the convention (none / 0) (#133)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:35 PM EST
    never mind

    I disagree (none / 0) (#153)
    by Claw on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:15 PM EST
    I don't think he's given Clinton voters a reason to unite around him, but I don't think he's actively doing things (other than the very obvious non-VP pick) to persuade people NOT to unite.  Let's reserve judgment until after the convention.  Clinton's speech was a HUGE step forward.

    hillary won't be saving obama. he will (5.00 / 5) (#116)
    by hellothere on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:48 PM EST
    have to do that from now to the election. it has always been up to him and no one else in my humble view.

    I respectfully disagree (5.00 / 21) (#5)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:48:42 PM EST
    I think tonight and Sen Clinton's speech underscored exactly why the democrats will lose this election for the WH: they picked the wrong candidate.

    She gave the speech she was supposed to, but also managed to really show that she is the better candidate and indirectly has thrown a light on the weakness of Sen Obama's candidacy and Sen Biden as VP.

    I agree with you. (5.00 / 18) (#15)
    by stefystef on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:51:42 PM EST
    I knew Hillary would knock it out the park because she's a loyal Democrat who loves the party even when they don't love her.

    While this party is getting great press, Obama has yet to really break through on a national level.  Hillary would have been stronger on a national level.

    Her speech made the case of the party picking the wrong candidate.


    It will be her epitaph. (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by Lysis on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:56:08 PM EST
    The woman who did too much and it was never enough.

    Well, I have to respectfully agree with (5.00 / 11) (#26)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:54:02 PM EST
    you Marvin42.  I believe some of what we are hearing is wishful thinking on the part of obama followers.  I really don't believe the GOP will hate Hillary anymore than they already do....the ball is in obama's court and he has done nothing but fumble, to date.  Time will tell what he is really made of...Hillary cannot continue to bail him out and obama expect voters to back him when he is shown as weak, imo.  The problem is that Hillary stands head and shoulders above obama.

    Media might be agreeing with you (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by waldenpond on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:07 PM EST
    CNN female talking head: 'I'm not your therapist, get over it'

    More importantly... I want to see Brokaw's statements again, 'if not her, who' 'if not now when' was Clinton a squandered opportunity... he was very serious after a lot of effusive praise and I pulled back at his comments and went 'uh oh'  it seems to have gone from great praise to too much, hopefully it won't hit 'she upstaged him'


    Wow (none / 0) (#201)
    by Jane in CA on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:32:21 AM EST
    I didn't catch those comments, but I haven't listened to endless CNN analysis yet ...

    Tweety said about the speech (5.00 / 17) (#8)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:49:53 PM EST
    "There was no sense of defeat in it...."

    He must have been sooooo disappointed.

    It's get rave reviews even from the misogynists on MSNBC. Olbermann is calling it a grand slam.  Even Tweety seems (momentarily at least) to be incapable of Hillary bashing.

    She was beyond terrific.  She was glowing, and it wasn't just the orange pantsuit.  She's a fighter, and she was fighting.  Of course there was no hint of defeat in her speech -- Hillary Clinton cannot be defeated.  She may not have won the nomination, but she is not defeated, and she never will be.  I don't know if she'll ever be president, but her greatest days lie ahead.  

    As my kids would say, "Hillary is Da Bomb."

    No way, no how, no McCain.

    Just wait... (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by NYCDem11 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:56:31 PM EST
    The misogynists at MSNBC are praising HRC because she's no longer a perceived threat and is not the nominee...and just so clearly knocked the ball out of the park for their guy. But, just as they did after her concession speech, they'll soon forget and be back to their irrational Clinton hating soon enough. I've watched her work tirelessly to do the right thing and always in the end she is heavily and unfairly criticized.

    But tonight she proved with grace and humility that she is a leader in the party with a very bright future. Her star is just starting to rise. There's no passing of the torch here...just a sharing of the stage...and the start of a working partnership to better the country.


    Olbermann is a hypocrite (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by stefystef on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59:28 PM EST
    Of course he says it was a grand slam because Hillary towed the line and didn't make Obama look bad.

    I have no respect for any of those pundits on MSNBC.


    In a way I agree (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by TheRizzo on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:50:31 PM EST
    However I will say this speech was sooooo good, that they could use it to try and throw back to us all why she should have been the nominee or at least the VP and make the wounds even deeper.

    Myself thought the speech was amazing and it actually had me going backwards in support of Obama because it reminded me just how big a mistake the party made this year.   Thats just me.

    Obama needs to hit an equally good homer with his speech on Thursday and then do some great campaigning to not squander the chance she set up for him tonight.

    I'm not sure (5.00 / 7) (#12)
    by standingup on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:50:41 PM EST
    the Republicans ever stopped hating Hillary.  More like they just gained a little fearful respect for her during the primaries.  

    I can't imagine how anyone could ask or expect more of a person who just lost what was probably the longest and most grueling primary battle in the history of the Democratic party.  If we had more Dems with the fight that Hillary has shown, the Dems might get something done.

    Hillary is a force of her own now (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:51:49 PM EST
    The Republicans have nothing to say about her anymore.

    I was watching Fiorina (?) on Greta (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:02 PM EST
    and she had nothing but good things to say.  She also spun the Republican bit as well as anyone could, and did manage to slip in that many in the Pepsi Center must have been thinking why wasn't she picked for VP, why isn't she the nominee? fairly smoothly.

    I really don't think this is going to hold them back very much on trying to still use Clinton's words against Obama.  Will it work after the speech?  I don't know, I spent a fair amount of it in tears bc she's not the nominee too.  (not that that will make me vote for McCain, but it certainly didn't make me want to vote for Obama).


    They will be spending hours (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by weltec2 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:47 PM EST
    in spin alley tonight over coffee and cigarettes trying to turn this against the Clintons. Tomorrow they will either have their negative talking points well tuned or -- if they can find nothing -- there will be complete blackout... not a mention... it never happened... move along move along. Nothing to see here.

    I teared up because I know she should (5.00 / 18) (#13)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:51:27 PM EST
    have been on that ticket. One way or the other. I hope my Obama friends watched that tonight and now understand why I thought Hillary should be President and why Obama should have chosen her for VP. It would have been such a winning team. What a classy lady and a great inspiration for me and for all women.

    Missed Opportunity (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by NYCDem11 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:28 PM EST
    I think tonight really underscored the opportunity Barack did not seize when he overlooked Hillary and selected Biden for VP. Together the two would have been an unstoppable force. What a shame.

    Hillary showed without a doubt that she (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:02:03 PM EST
    has moved on, bears no hard feelings, and will not let anything stand in her way of doing whatever she can for the good of the country.

    And, Biden was picked for VP.


    Or why (5.00 / 9) (#65)
    by BernieO on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:40 PM EST
    the idiots that are our party leaders didn't realize that if they had supported her this time it would have given Obama time to get more experience and exposure so that he would be better prepared in 8 years when he will still be a young man.

    When I was doing a "Honk for Hillary" event here in Charlotte I had a very friendly disagreement with 3 young African American men who kept yelling "No, Obama" to our chants of "Hillary". I said I would agree with them in 8 years and when they said why not him first I replied because he will still be young in 8 years and she will be around McCain's age. One of them said to his friends, "You know I never thought about that but she makes a lot of sense."

    Instead the boys club closed ranks around the less ready, less experienced candidate and, as the polls clearly show, put their chances in big jeopardy at a time when it should have been a cake walk.


    True (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by TheRealFrank on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:51:48 PM EST
    His campaign needs to improve on their dismal performance over the last 3 months.

    Hillary Clinton has done more than anyone else before in her position (and how!), but there's only one person who can close the deal.

    I'm looking forward to Bill's speech tomorrow, and hope that Obama can deliver on Thursday.

    That was supposed to be a reply to someone (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by TheRealFrank on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:52:46 PM EST
    I think I'll blame it on the site being messed up :)

    The Problem is: (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:56:36 PM EST
    Bill will give a great speech. Obama will give a great speech but deliver it as if in church and as a preacher. Hillary gave a Presidential speech tonight.

    I don't think so (2.00 / 0) (#68)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
    Did you see Obama's speech before the VFW, I think, this week?  None of the preacher style speaking.

    He plays to the crowd and the crowd on Thursday is the entire country.  I suspect we will see a style more akin to the 2004 DNC speech than to his stump speech.


    The 2004 (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:48 PM EST
    speech was hopey changey evangelical. I loved it then but after hearing it so much lately, it's become tiresome.

    I had high expectations (5.00 / 8) (#19)
    by Lil on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:51:56 PM EST
    but I gotta tell you this speech just blew me away. BTD, your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. I actually think the pressure is now on for Barrack to knock it out of the park too (I hope he does by the way).

    She certainly raised the stakes (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by dmk47 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:53:16 PM EST
    "Nothing less than the fate of our nation and the future of our children hang in the balance."

    All Hillary's Fault (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by tdraicer on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:16 PM EST
    >I think tonight and Sen Clinton's speech underscored exactly why the democrats will lose this election for the WH: they picked the wrong candidate.She gave the speech she was supposed to, but also managed to really show that she is the better candidate and indirectly has thrown a light on the weakness of Sen Obama's candidacy and Sen Biden as VP.

    Yup. Which means if Obama loses, it will be all Hillary's fault.

    Man- Pat has (5.00 / 7) (#34)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:40 PM EST
    it... the question tomorrow will be...WHY didn't they put this women on the ticket.

    Je say that will be the buzz!

    You're absolutely right (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Klio on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:46 PM EST
    she was magnificent.  When she spoke about what we owe the next generations -- oh, how she made me waver in my obstinacy ....

    She's right (none / 0) (#69)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
    You know she is.

    I'm doing it for my kids, and theirs.  Because President McCain will screw things up so badly that our great-grandchildren will still be cleaning up the mess.


    come on, this is too transparent (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by Ford Prefect on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:00:31 AM EST
    Pls treat your audience as intelligent people and dont play on emotions to canvass for your candidate. THis country survived the 8 years of Bush and lets face it. Thankfully for us, vast majority of the things that impact our daily lives outside of a few things are mercifully not fully in the hands of politicians, unlike in many other countries. Otherwise much larger sections of this society will be in dire straits.

    If there is anyone whose presidency that we need to worry about, it is Obama's. Precisely because Obama looks and feels a lot like Bush in his lack of substance and dependency on advisors or others to run the country. We know how that worked out. We may not agree with everything McCAin has to say. However the man has the ability to lead and even cross the aisle to work with Dems occasionally. If he wont, hopefully the dems can stop him from doing further damage. But to expect Obama presidency to be better than McCain simply because his website has a laundry list of progressive policy positions and he has a (D) behind his name is to do the same thing the McCain republican who though Bush was a lightweight who didnt have the ability to lead this country in 2000, just for party loyalty sake. I would agree with you on one thing. Country is way more important than the party. It is precisely that conclusion that drives me away from Obama, not to McCain, but just away from Obama.


    but there's principles involved (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by Klio on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:05:51 AM EST
    it's an election; I shouldn't feel like I'm being mugged by my own party.

    They're public servants and I'm a loyal, loyal Dem - they owe me, not the other way around.  Will they ever stop taking me for granted?


    She'd be right (5.00 / 3) (#182)
    by Nadai on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:08:43 AM EST
    if Obama was likely to do any of the things she mentioned.  Unfortunately, I have yet to see sign one that he's willing to fight for anything except his own power, or even understands why he should.

    I think Hillary has a very good chance to (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:57 PM EST
    be President.  2016 is not too late....and 2012 if need be....

    Joe Biden might have something to say (none / 0) (#41)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:57:22 PM EST
    about that. If you think he's not running in 2016, I've got a bridge right over here.

    Heh, yeah right (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59:45 PM EST
    Biden's highest office ever will be Vice President--if the stars align in November.

    Biden will never be President.


    Why? (none / 0) (#81)
    by rilkefan on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:40 PM EST
    In '16, after eight years of conspicuous good governance, with Obama's ringing endorsement in his pocket, how is Biden not the prohibitive favorite?

    Obama's conspicuous endorsement? (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:33:38 PM EST

    I wish I could bet on this.

    There is ZERO chance, ZERO, that Biden could beat Clinton. Not a chance.


    Off to Intrade! (none / 0) (#178)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:01:01 AM EST
    BTD, I was pretty darn sure (up to a couple (none / 0) (#183)
    by tigercourse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:06 AM EST
    months before the Iowa caucus) that there was no way a light weight like Obama could beat Clinton. But he did.

    If my choice is to side with something that has historically almost always been true or to side with something that has historically almost always been untrue, I think the safest bet is the first.


    Because he'll be too old (none / 0) (#89)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:18 PM EST
    This is Hillary's office to refuse.

    Biden will be 2 years older then McCain. And (none / 0) (#97)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:09:28 PM EST
    he hasn't had every bone in his body broken. Biden isn't the kind of guy to take VP for nothing. He wants to be President. He will run. And the sitting VP usually wins the nomination.

    You really must be kidding (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:11 PM EST
    Hillary will embarrass him.

    No chance. That is the chance Biden will have.


    If he were (which he won't be) (5.00 / 0) (#141)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:04 PM EST
    he would lose the race. Plain and simple.

    So what? So did Gore, Mondale, Nixon and (none / 0) (#147)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29:38 PM EST

    How silly. (none / 0) (#136)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:25:43 PM EST
    But oh, I'm sure Hubert Humphrey and Walter Mondale are in total agreement with you...

    Biden won't have a chance in 2016.


    All the stars were supposed to be aligned in (none / 0) (#145)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:41 PM EST
    Clinton's favor this year. And yet she lost to a guy I consider to be vastly inferior. Thinking all the stars will be aligned for Clinton in 2016 is a mistake.

    Biden has had two (none / 0) (#174)
    by weltec2 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:57:43 PM EST
    brain aneurysms, one of which began leaking. The hospitalization and recovery kept him from his duties in the U.S. Senate for seven months. This was in February 1988. He was hospitalized and underwent lifesaving surgery, but still... I think he's going to be fortunate to make it through the stress of one term as Veep. See here for reference.

    Exactly. (none / 0) (#91)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:36 PM EST
    Ok, 74 is too old (none / 0) (#94)
    by rilkefan on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:08:24 PM EST
    But I would guess HRC might not want to be president until she's, what, 77?

    76 (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:11:28 PM EST
    At the end of a second term.

    Not a problem.


    Younger than McCain (none / 0) (#130)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:52 PM EST
    There is plenty of time....

    Because he is a terrible candidate? (none / 0) (#193)
    by Nike on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:15:54 AM EST
    If he runs (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:38 PM EST
    which he won't, he would get his ass kicked.

    Nope. Hillary will be the next Democratic nominee for PResident.


    I've got all my digits crossed (none / 0) (#70)
    by coigue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:02:18 PM EST
    for that

    The sitting VP usually has a very good chance (none / 0) (#80)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:23 PM EST
    of being the next nominee. If Pelosi, Kerry, Daschle, Dean, Brazille, etc. are still around they will do whatever they can to keep her out.

    Tell that to Al Gore (none / 0) (#101)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:13:12 PM EST
    He was the next nominee. So were Mondale, (none / 0) (#110)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:37 PM EST
    Bush and Nixon.

    Not this time (none / 0) (#108)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:16 PM EST
    History has a fun way of repeating itself. (none / 0) (#114)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:45 PM EST
    Everyone loves Clinton right now. 8 Years from now the same forces will be set against her.

    Joe Biden as Obama? (none / 0) (#148)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:02 PM EST
    Dream on.

    Joe Biden won't share Obama's demographic (none / 0) (#155)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:34 PM EST
    problems in states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. No one will doubt his experience. Most importanly, Iowa still ain't gonna vote for Clinton.

    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:03 PM EST
    Nor his strengths.

    Not really. (none / 0) (#112)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17:42 PM EST
    Didn't help Al Gore.  Biden has no chance against Hillary, VP or not.

    Yes it did. He was the nominee. (none / 0) (#119)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:19:53 PM EST
    Pelosi, Kerry, Daschle, Dean, (none / 0) (#205)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:26:35 AM EST
    Brazille, etc. will be toast after Obama loses in November. Sorry, BTD.

    At the age of 74? (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:36 PM EST
    I don't think so.

    He will be really old then (74) (none / 0) (#66)
    by coigue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:42 PM EST
    She'll be old too, but women have about 5 years on men in longevity.

    But you could be right


    Biden will be 74... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:17 PM EST
    ... by 2016. I really doubt he'd be running. I don't think Hillary will be viable at that point, either, but she'd be 69, and women do tend to live longer and age better, so I suppose it's possible.

    McCain is a 72 year old with a completely (none / 0) (#86)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:06:34 PM EST
    broken body. Yet he's doing pretty darn well against Obama. A fairly healthy 74 year old Biden wouldn't be ridiculous.

    Aside from the fact that (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:15:39 AM EST
    McCain (sadly) has considerable vote-getting appeal, and Biden none whatsoever, your analogy just about works.

    This is the silliest TL thread in months!


    You know who were real fire crackers? Al (none / 0) (#194)
    by tigercourse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:36 AM EST
    Gore, Walter Mondale, and Hubert... you get the idea. They were real vote getters to.

    Ridiculous! (none / 0) (#187)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:36 AM EST
    Biden will be 74 years old in '16. Older than McCain is now. He has run for the Presidency twice before, and both attempts have been ludicrous. If he tries (and he will not) he will be the next Alben Barkley (use wikipedia).

    He'll actually be 73. 1 year older then McCain. (none / 0) (#191)
    by tigercourse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:15:14 AM EST
    And McCain is pretty close to winning. As I pointed out elsewhere Gore, Bush and McCain also ran before but ended up the nominees later.

    I watched the Fox News post game crew (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:57:40 PM EST
    They all were in agreement that Hillary pulled her punches and was secretly trying to belittle Obama.

    Bill Kristol said it was an awful speech that did nothing for Obama.

    Just echoing what BTD is saying.  

    A great speech by Hillary.  Evocative and passionate.

    The Harriet Tubman reference was absolute brilliance.  What a fantastic way to bring together 2 oppressed groups that are, in truth, seeking the same thing.  

    Her shots at McCain were pointed and decisive.  Really great speech.  

    The Fox folks (none / 0) (#56)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:24 PM EST
    are truly delusional

    I am sure they will give the same critical, dissecting analysis to the speeches of Bush et al, lol


    It will be great theater (none / 0) (#74)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:33 PM EST
    to hear them gush over Joe Lieberman and how his decision to speak at the RNC is a sign of the division inside the Democratic Party.  

    What have they been saying about the (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:08:22 PM EST
    numerous Republicans who have spoken at the Dem convention?

    Not sure if there are more to come, but there have already been at least 3, and the first one was a major slap in Bill Clinton's face.


    AT LAST SOMEONE ELSE NOTICED!!! (5.00 / 8) (#168)
    by BernieO on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:48:11 PM EST
    Thank you for pointing out the DELIBERATE slap at Bill Clinton. I gagged when I saw the odious Jim Leach - a man who spent three years abusing his position as chair of the House Banking Committee to investigate clearly bogus accusations against the Clintons - speaking at a DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION!! He was a card carrying member of the right wing conspiracy that was out to get Bill Clinton. The media slobbers all over the guy as a reasonable moderate, but he is an  unprincipled SOB. There is no way the Republicans would ever let this happen. But Axelrod is willing to do anything to insult the Clintons.

    I am sure that some will try to say this insult was unintentional, but there is NO WAY that anyone who was involved in the party in the 90's did not know about Leach's role in smearing Clinton. (And a lot of media people know it was a deliberate insult.) Most of the public only remembers the Monica episode, not all the previous accusations about murder, cocaine smuggling, etc.

    That is what is so impressive about both Clintons. The vast majority of us could never come back after being viciously slandered. I know that I, like most people, would be destroyed by bitterness.


    Wonder how many Dem Primary losers (none / 0) (#83)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:47 PM EST
    they will include on their guest list

    As I recall Lieberman is not a dem (none / 0) (#122)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:20:34 PM EST
    She set the bar tonight (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by jb64 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59:16 PM EST
    Whatever comes after this night will have to be in the sane ball park or this will be the high light of the convention. I have honestly never been moved by a speech like the one I just saw. I don't have the words.

    Rumors about the death of Hillary Clinton's political future have been greatly exaggerated.....

    Hillary's speech (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by anjin san on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59:33 PM EST
    As an Obama supporter, my hat is off to Sen. Clinton tonight. My guess is the McCain camp will not sleep well for a while.

    Sure they will (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by coigue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:04:44 PM EST
    Ambiens all around.

    I don't think Cindy is allowed to (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:16 PM EST
    have them around anymore....

    Personal attacks are not (none / 0) (#131)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:00 PM EST
    allowed. This is not about Cindy McCain.

    I disagree (5.00 / 6) (#166)
    by waldenpond on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:59 PM EST
    I think he'll sleep really well, with a smile on his face actually.  He's thanking his lucky stars she isn't on the ticket.

    She is (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59:42 PM EST
    the next Democratic nominee for President, either in 2012 or 2016.

    Joe Biden will have NOTHING to say to it. NOTHING.

    LOL (none / 0) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:42:23 PM EST
    I think you are right since Biden has run for Prez for 2 times already. Nobody wanted him those other times so why would anybody want him 8 years from now? I guess there could be that three times the charm thing though.

    Gore ran for the nomination in 1988 (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:39 PM EST
    and he lost. Yet he was our nominee 12 years later. Bush lost in 80. Yet he was the nominee 8 years later. McCain lost in 2000. He was the nominee 8 years later.

    You don't get it, do you? (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:21:19 AM EST
    Gore won SIX states in '88, and was the last white guy standing against Dukakis, the eventual nominee. In '88 and '08, Biden won ZERO. Not only that, each year he got ZERO percent of the total primary vote! His previous presidential bids were both pathetic and laughable. Whatever happens in November, he will not run again, of that I am certain--and if he does, he will be humiliated just as badly as this year.

    Look, Biden owes his current status to Obama's need for a Veep with foreign policy experience. It's not as though there was a massive grassroots "Draft Joe!" movement.


    Here's what I get. The Democratic party moved (none / 0) (#198)
    by tigercourse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:25:48 AM EST
    heaven and earth to make sure Clinton didn't win the nomination this year. Those people aren't going away. They will still be here in 2016 and they will move heaven and earth to make sure she isn't the nominee then. The idea that's she certain to te the nominee is as idiotic as the idea that she was certain to be the nominee in 2008.

    Dude, Joe (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:31:16 AM EST
    "clean and articulate" / "Delaware woulda been proud to join the Confederacy" Biden is hardly going to have Obama's appeal to AA voters (or anyone else, frankly).

    Seriously, give it up. Someone other than Clinton MAY win the '12/'16 nod. But it sure as hell won't be Biden, unless every other Democrat in America drops dead of beri-beri.


    the talking heads... (none / 0) (#171)
    by dws3665 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:50:58 PM EST
    were saying that tonights other speakers, Warner and Schweizer, would be her competition for future nominations.

    Warner, maybe. Schweizer? I just don't see it.


    not sure about that but her (none / 0) (#203)
    by denise k on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:17:27 AM EST
    star is still on the rise, which is pretty amazing considering what she has been through.  She just keeps on impressing and impressing...  The Harriett Tubman line is the perfect metaphor for Hillary.

    It is nice (5.00 / 5) (#54)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:05 PM EST
    to see the GOP quit playing their silly little game.  Al Rodgers had a diary on this same thing before the speech tonight.  I commented:

    I feel betrayed!  These people were so respectful of Hillary, saying how bad they felt that Barack didn't pick her for VP, holding that nice happy hour in Denver for her supporters.

    And now they're sliming her?  Et tu, Republicans?  I swear, you can't trust ANYONE any more.

    I want to see all the Hillary-hate over in the other party where it belongs.

    Why does she have no path to power (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:16 PM EST
    in the Senate?

    Obama gets elected and she has a very nice path to power in the Senate.  She's Senator Healthcare.  Poor Teddy's not going to be able to fight that fight. Because you know that even with a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress, the Goopers are going to try to gum up the works.

    And Harry Reid should not be majority leader anymore, no matter who wins the White House. Most.ineffectual.Senate.Majority.Leader.Ever.

    Oh wait, I forgot about Tom "Let's Get Behind Bush and Campaign on the Economy" Daschle.

    Because there are alot of more powerful, more (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:34 PM EST
    senior Democrats who want the job. Schumer and Durbin for example.

    I like Chuck Schumer (none / 0) (#121)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:20:34 PM EST
    He's my other Senator.  But he does not have the national following that Hillary will have, and neither does Durbin.

    If Obama wins, he'll owe her.


    National clout means nothing in terms of (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:08 PM EST
    becoming Majority leader. Who the hell has heard of Reid or Daschle before they got the jobs?

    Schumer? (none / 0) (#126)
    by miriam on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:07 PM EST
    Chuck?  Surely you jest.  

    He's the third most powerful Senator. And after (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:04 PM EST
    this year, about a fifth of the Democratic Senators will have been elected with his help. But Durbin is more likely to be the next Majority leader.

    Kerry, (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:44:12 PM EST
    Obama's spokesperson has already said that her healthcare proposal is DOA. So even if Obama makes it to the WH, she won't get her proposals through.

    What makes you (5.00 / 5) (#62)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:28 PM EST
    think that the only power for her would be in the Senate or as President.

    Her power is frorm the millions that love her and Bill.

    As much as the Dem Party hates to admit... the Clintons have POWER that they can only dream of.

    P in P...at this point, I am ready for Hillary (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:03 PM EST
    and Bill to start their own party... :)

    Wouldn't it be something if Bill would announce (5.00 / 0) (#207)
    by bridget on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:41:34 AM EST
    that tom during his speech? Two "Hall of Famers" starting their own party :) That would turn Dem convention 2008 into an event nobody would forget  so soon ;-) Ok, just dreaming ;-)

    But I bet lots of folks were having some second thoughts after Hillary's speech ... while leaving the convention building ... or at home. What happened? Where and how did we get to this point in this election? Why not Hillary?

    It was heartbreaking to see HOW Hillary lost this primary but I was so proud tonight and so glad I was a Hillary supporter until the v. last second of her campaign. Loved her since campaign 92 so it was an amazing opportunity for me, for my whole family, to be part of the Hillary Clinton for President campaign. Even my friends in Europe rooted with me for Hillary  - esp. when she charged ahead later in the campaign and Obama lost steam when he should have gained ...

    I cried when the black woman delegate was interviewed by CNN. Finally there was someone who spoke for me, too. Simple and eloquently. And heartbroken. How Hillary had inspired her as a woman and how Hillary as President could have done so much for the country, for women in particuar, for everyone ...

    And Wasn't Chelsea absolutely perfect and so beautiful? I am so glad Hillary had Chelsea to support her throughout the primaries and  introduce her tonight for this important speech. I watched her listening to her mother and I can only imagine what she must have been thinking ... Why? Why? Just like me.

    Watching Bill listening to every one of Hillary's words with so much pride and emotion and love was simple joy for me. How can one not admire the Clintons?

    Well, like Carville said, this was a bad night for the Clinton haters. But A wonderful night and very special moment for us who admire and support them.


    What a remarkable woman.... (5.00 / 12) (#73)
    by miriam on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:03:23 PM EST
    Just remarkable.  For her to be able to put aside the rancor and animus directed at her during this campaign, to support Obama in the interests of her country, its people, and humankind generally, moved me to tears.  That was a president we heard tonight.  

    The thing with Hillary...I always remember (5.00 / 9) (#76)
    by Teresa on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:04:21 PM EST
    the words in her speeches. She talks about my needs. I hope that Obama can learn to do that. His speeches (that I've seen) are too general and too much about his biography. I want to hear him speak to me in those kind of specifics.

    She would have been the best VP and a sure win in November. I don't envy poor Joe following that.

    To me, obama lacks passion, empathy, (5.00 / 4) (#132)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:15 PM EST
    compassion, etc., so I would be very much surprised if he spoke that way....as for specifics, after many months, he still lacks them...what does this guy stand for?

    You think he's regretting the decision (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:05 PM EST
    to put all the Clintons on the podium? Heh!!

    Come Thursday, he could be so nervous even the teleprompter won't be able to keep him away from the eh, uh, eh, ah, uh, uh, uh's.


    Betcha (2.00 / 0) (#169)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:49:06 PM EST
    he gives a hell of a speech himself

    Let's hope he gives a speech (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:37:39 AM EST
    and not a sermon.

    I checked out DK. Had to (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:05:42 PM EST
    Rarely go there, but they are very happy with her speech. And they are even saying they will donate to her campaign as she only has 2 days left to retire her debt. I just got her t-shirt in the mail to wear Nov 3rd to the polls. Guess she can use some more help now and it is time to visit Hillary.com once again.

    I'm on it (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:33 PM EST
    What a relief (5.00 / 4) (#105)
    by Donna Z on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:04 PM EST
    A speaker at the Democratic actually said the word "Democrat," and said it more than once. Thanks Sen. Clinton.

    Did Warner even mention the party?

    BTD (5.00 / 6) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:19:34 PM EST
    the only way Obama is going to be President is if he can make the same sale that Hillary made tonight. No hopey changey crap. No purple state crap. No evangelical speeches. Can he do it on Thursday night? Can he rise to the occaision and do the things that are required of him? I have serious doubts because he has not shown that ability so far.

    ARe you serious (5.00 / 5) (#139)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:49 PM EST
    Do you know her history? When she said never give up, she was talking about herself.

    You are going to be blown away by Hillary Clinton in the future.

    I know her history. Her history is that she was (1.00 / 1) (#150)
    by tigercourse on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:30 PM EST
    the prohibitive favorite coming into this election and got knocked out of the Democratic primary by a guy who goes around praising Ronald Reagen. She was the front runner in 2008 and lost.

    not to state the obvious, but ... (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by dws3665 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:53:58 PM EST
    2012/16 will not be 2008.

    4 years is more than a life time in politics (none / 0) (#184)
    by Ford Prefect on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:10:54 AM EST

    Yes. But the years 2000, 1988, 1984, 1968 and (none / 0) (#188)
    by tigercourse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:13:05 AM EST
    1960 tend to add up.  

    ARe you one of those (none / 0) (#185)
    by MichaelGale on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:01 AM EST
    low information voters?

    One thing that kind of surprised me... (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by weltec2 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:28:22 PM EST
    was how quickly she left the stage after her speech when there were people who still wanted to cheer and show their appreciation and admiration. Of course I think I realize why she did it. If she had hung around out there the pundits would have complained that she was trying to make it all about her. Still... I was sorry she left the stage so quickly. It seemed to suck all the energy out of the auditorium. Did anyone notice that besides me? Perhaps it was just my imagination, but it seemed that all the energy just went right out with her.

    H*ll (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:50:39 PM EST
    everytime she disappears things just go flat. Look at the whole convention before she spoke. It was a disaster.

    Sort of a metaphor (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:24:39 AM EST
    for the Clintons and the Democratic Party, no?

    I didn't watch the speech (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:53 PM EST
    Had no desire. And I didn't need to watch, to know that it was very good because she should have been the nominee and the lesser-abled MAN should have been the runner up.  But the very notion that she's in the running for president in any future election is about as silly a thing as I can think of -- especially if Obama loses and she is BLAMED.  On the other hand, if he wins, not only will she be a woman AND Hillary Clinton (i.e. HATED) in 2016, she'll be an "old WOMAN".  Doesn't sit well in the new-fangled IPod generation.  Not a prayer in the world

    It's all just a reminder that the best candidate -- the woman -- didn't win. There is no other woman that I know of who could deal with the outrageous misogyny and still come out smiling. And I don't think it's because women are weak.  I don't know many men who could deal with such hatred and come out on their feet either. Therefore, I won't see a woman president in my lifetime.

    It actually kind of peeves me when people talk about her running in 2016,  because it would have made far more sense to have Obama run then.

    But you guys have your party here, and we'll see how people are talking about her next week.  The ratings are the important thing and praising or ignoring Hillary Clinton doesn't give good ratings.

    I understand how you feel (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:11:32 AM EST
    but I think you should watch it anyway. It tore me to shreds. I had tears running down my face. But I want to watch it again, and again.

    Because she is just SO amazing. Everything we saw in her during the campaign is here, in clear focus and cranked to 11. She was glorious and she completely justified my preference and support for her and then some. She made me so proud. I have never seen anyone make such an excellent case for herself as a transformational and timeless figure without praising herself at all. She showed it. And yes, she gave me twinges of thinking I might want to rethink my position, just because she asked me to.

    (But only twinges)

    This speech is not her legacy but it will be part of it. It's the launch of her brilliant future and a celebration of everything she's already done. It made me feel hopeful in a way that BO never could. Hopeful for her and for the country, even if the DNC is so mind bogglingly stupid they didn't choose her.

    If we are disappointed at the lost opportunity, just think how Bill feels. And yet he was absolutely beaming with love and pride. As I was.

    Damn, you know what? It was cathartic.


    Well (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by cawaltz on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:06:10 AM EST
    My reaction to her speech is anger at the DNC(of course that is my reaction everytime I think of this primnary so nothing new there). She made a compelling argument to not vote for McCain but I see absolutely no reason to vote Obama.

    Listen to Hillary (none / 0) (#196)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:21:58 AM EST
    This line was the key to unity:

    I want you to ask yourselves: Were you in this campaign just for me? Or were you in it for that young Marine and others like him? Were you in it for that mom struggling with cancer while raising her kids? Were you in it for that boy and his mom surviving on the minimum wage? Were you in it for all the people in this country who feel invisible?

    If you see no reason to vote for Obama then you are still thinking in terms of the cult of personality. I'm voting for the Democrats to take back the Executive Branch. And then they can [and will] work with Congress to do all the things this country needs. Obama just happens to be at the top of the ticket.
    You have a choice: Republicans or Democrats.
    Come join us.


    You are wrong (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by dissenter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:28:43 AM EST
    Some of us think Obama is unqualified and that makes him dangerous.

    Hillary saved her political life (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Prabhata on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:25 AM EST
    Hillary has been faulted for Obama's poor performance to-date.  Hillary gave the speech that reached to the AA voters, to her supporters and to Democrats all over. Hillary needs all of them for her political life.  Unlike Obama, she does not burn  bridges. I for one will not vote for Obama because I got to know the candidate during the primaries, and what I saw is not what I want in the WH. Obama does not think highly of those who worked for the principles Hillary has worked for all her life.  That's why Obama does not speak highly of Bill Clinton or FDR or LBJ. That's why Obama said that as First Lady, Hillary served tea and cookies.  Obama has diminished all that's at the core of the Democratic Party.

    I don't see this speech moving any (4.75 / 4) (#95)
    by frankly0 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:08:42 PM EST
    voters, on balance, and in the end, over to Obama.

    Yet it was a perfect speech from the standpoint of making the argument for Obama as best Hillary might.

    Yes, it was a "lesser of two evils" speech. But that is precisely the argument that Obama and his supporters have themselves been making to Hillary supporters. They make this argument because no other argument is likely to work -- they know perfectly well that talking about Obama's supposed special virtues will fall on deaf ears. It is only the generic Democratic brand that might work for him with Hillary supporters.

    Does anyone really imagine that if Hillary had come out with praise of Obama's personality or character or special capabilities, that her arguments would have been accepted by her own supporters, or that loud derision wouldn't have broken out among them?

    Hillary made the case she could make as best as she could make it.

    But the truth is that she delivered the speech so powerfully and masterfully that the real message of the speech was the "meta" one: that she is a tremendous candidate and potential President -- why should Democrats have ever settled for Obama?

    And that message will do Obama no exactly good when all is said and done.

    I strongly disagree (none / 0) (#102)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:14:43 PM EST
    I can only speculate, but (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by frankly0 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:25:26 PM EST
    my guess is that you think the real impact of the speech is the strict content of what she said: go for Obama if you want to support Democratic ideals.

    But I just doubt that such "rational" arguments mean much at this stage, because voters have heard them already over and over again.

    Instead, they will be paying attention to the dynamism with which she delivered the speech, the enthusiasm from the crowd, the powerful delivery, the cogency of her argument, and simply conclude: this is the person we should be voting for, not Obama.

    While I can see some voters who hadn't supported Obama feeling initially inspired by her speech to support Obama, I doubt that reaction will stand the test of time.

    Fundamentally, voters will -- again, in the end, after some reflection -- take away from her speech that she is a powerful and effective personality. That perception will do Obama no favors over the long run.

    We will see of course how this works out.


    I cried (4.64 / 11) (#6)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:49:11 PM EST
    I cried because I know she was the right person and still was denied.
    I cried because I know, like Hillary knows, that despite my frustrations, despite the hurt from the ugliness women had to endure from the press and many of the liberal blogs, I will do what most women will do, have done, have always done...put aside our personal hurts, and work to get Obama elected because I care about our daughters, our sons, our grandchildren and our elderly.

    I will never be convinced this primary was even close to fair, or that the right person was nominated.
    Despite it, despite knowing I will probably not live to see any woman elected, let alone one as accomplished as Hillary, I will go forward and do the right thing for the future.

    I know exactly how you feel (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:51:51 PM EST
    That speech confirmed for me that I was right to want her to be president.

    But it also confirmed for me that I can't let McCain become president.


    Beautiful comment (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by mogal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:52:03 PM EST
    Thank you (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:04 PM EST
    I appreciate your saying so.

    I teared up too (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Claw on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:25:53 PM EST
    And I've been an Obama supporter from pretty early on.  And I wasn't getting emotional because of her wonderful endorsement...it was the eloquence.  Truly amazing.  I wouldn't lose hope of seeing a woman elected POTUS.  Really.  Every time Clinton opens her mouth, she brings us closer to that.

    wish i could be so sanguine (3.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Turkana on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:56:05 PM EST
    but three facts may undermine your conclusion:

    1. many of hillary's supporters do not actually support her. they do not listen to her. it's not about her, it's not about the issues, it's about themselves. whether there are enough of such to make a difference is unknown, but they are out there.

    2. since defeating clinton, obama's campaign has been a tale of political ineptitude. as good as they were during the primaries, they have been equally bad, since.

    3. the media. i disagree with you that obama is their darling. we will see how they spin the gooper convention and the debates.

    Huh? (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:06:01 PM EST
    1. No idea what you are trying to say.

    2. Huh? They lost their flair long before the end of the primary.

    3. The Clinton hatred is working against Obama in a very, very big way. The media knows it, and I do agree with you on this one.

    Number one (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:01 PM EST
    That is totally a statement without any insight into what this entire refusal to vote for Obama is about.

    She convinced me half way.  It's up to Obama to close the deal.


    I don't think (1.00 / 10) (#28)
    by horncheggit1 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:54:07 PM EST
    her speech was all that great. It suffered from precisely the same problems as all her other speeches: flat delivery, terrible rhythm, and a marked inability to connect with the audience through her facial expressions.

    I'm by no means convinced about Obama, but having seen Clinton tonight I'm happy she lost the primary contest. If she can't bother to become a first-rate speaker how can we expect her to become a first-rate president?

    LOL (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:20 PM EST
    She was amazing

    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:17 PM EST
    Whatever you say.

    And you signed up tonight (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:58:35 PM EST
    because there was no room on the Big Orange? Your comment was not necessary and you are a troll.

    I'm sorry. (1.00 / 1) (#58)
    by horncheggit1 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:38 PM EST
    I don't know what troling is. What are you talking about?

    And a pathetic troll at that... (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:12:48 PM EST
    Probably has spent too much time under (none / 0) (#111)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:51 PM EST
    the bridge :)  There have been alot of trolls on here lately...

    What your're doing. n/t (none / 0) (#124)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:30 PM EST
    From Free Republic (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:19 PM EST
    Obama folks of course loved the speech.

    this is comedy, right? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Klio on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:00:30 PM EST
    I can understand being a resistant listener but this is absurd.  I don't see how you can really believe what you've just said.

    Because (none / 0) (#71)
    by horncheggit1 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:02:33 PM EST
    it was an opinion? I've genuinely never been impressed by her as an orator. Policy is one thing, but I just think her delivery is a little bit lacking.

    opinion? (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Klio on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:14:25 AM EST
    certainly not one based on observation.  

    Flat delivery, broken rhythms, inability to connect emotionally with the audience?

    That's just willful denial.


    Okay.... (none / 0) (#88)
    by miriam on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:07:15 PM EST
    Now, can we talk about your critical capacities?

    Go away. (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:27:21 PM EST
    You are nuts (none / 0) (#51)
    by coigue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59:34 PM EST
    that was the best speech I've ever seen ... by anyone.

    And I did not vote for her.


    This was snark, right? n/t (none / 0) (#87)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:06:56 PM EST
    I was sure it was (none / 0) (#96)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:09:05 PM EST
    C'mon it had to be

    From your lips (none / 0) (#1)
    by coigue on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:44:19 PM EST
    to God's ears!

    Even Tweety (none / 0) (#4)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:48:18 PM EST
    liked it! He actual like it!!

    That was weird to hear!

    He liked it... (5.00 / 20) (#9)
    by masslib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:50:01 PM EST
    because she's not the nominee.  

    Faux news was immediately dissing Hillary (none / 0) (#10)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:50:28 PM EST
    saying she was tepid and didnt do enough, LOL

    It wasn't just FOX (5.00 / 5) (#61)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:01:22 PM EST
    That prig, Michael Beschloss, on PBS was whining that she didn't sell Obama enough, that she sold them on the strength of the Democratic party instead. What an ***.

    Hillary hit every single marker. She more than made the case against the Republicans and for Obama and yes, the Democratic party. If Obama can't make the case for himself on November 4th he will deserve to be relegated to the dustbin of history.

    And the Republicans will still fear and respect Hillary, long after November 4th, no matter what.


    FOX dissing Hillary (none / 0) (#25)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:53:24 PM EST
    What's new.  

    LOL (none / 0) (#30)
    by litigatormom on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:54:32 PM EST
    Because now they're going to have a hard time running that stoopid Hillary ad.

    not really (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by AlSmith on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:00:57 AM EST
    You can still run the ad since Hillary was right about what she said in it.

    What is she really supposed to say for Obama? He gives really nice speeches and that is important for a President to do 5 or 6 times a year?

    Its not up to HRC to sell the flawed candidate.


    Amazing, wonderful speech. (none / 0) (#72)
    by eleanora on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:02:58 PM EST
    At my house, we've got Hillary supporters crying and laughing and shouting, "Yeah!" We'll vote for the Dem ticket in the hope they live up to the Democratic ideals she so eloquently articulated tonight. Keep going, Hillary, and we'll clean up the DNC from the inside. C'mon Barack and Joe, game on.

    Tell that to Jerry Ford (none / 0) (#77)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:04:24 PM EST
    Life has a funny way of surprising you

    Who? (none / 0) (#104)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:15:20 PM EST
    Yeah, him (none / 0) (#159)
    by DemForever on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:40:42 PM EST
    In my opinion (none / 0) (#109)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:16:19 PM EST
    Her speech tonight was not the best thing she's ever done.

    Which is not to say it wasn't good (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:20 PM EST
    I became so depressed I had to turn it off.

    It doesn't sit well with me, that's all and it's not going to.

    Other people are going to say it was the best thing she ever did but I know, often times people can say and believe the same kinds of things but have totally opposite reasons for believing them.

    That is the kind of tolerance and understanding that I would try to put out there in the world.  To always, at least at first, assume the best of people and why they say what they say and do what they do.

    This is not a happy time for me.

    I will write more about what Obama can do to earn my vote later tonight.  Clinton showed us what it was.


    IT was the (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:25:38 PM EST
    best political move I've ever seen.

    She has all her critics praising her every word. She just turned around this election. So Obama doesn't shoot himself in the foot... we should have a Dem in WH.

    Just goes to show you there is NEVER a polically dead CLINTON... and Bill will blow them all away tomorrow night also.


    Yes (none / 0) (#157)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:48 PM EST
    I know.

    She did the right thing.  I knew she would.


    Justice Clinton? (none / 0) (#113)
    by anjin san on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17:58 PM EST
    I still think Hillary would make a fine Supreme Court Justice. Is that something her supporters would welcome?

    No. (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:00:05 AM EST
    She can do much, much more for all Americans in the Senate.  SCOTUS would be a waste of her political talents.  Those folks are cloistered.  It would be throwing all her political capital (which is mighty high after tonight) away.

    SCOTUS? Okay, but... (none / 0) (#151)
    by weltec2 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:54 PM EST
    I think I would rather see her as Attorney General.

    Secretary of State. (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:04:13 AM EST
    She already has been to 82 countries, meeting with top leaders, has their respect, etc.

    And foreign relations is an area where we really need to be ready on day one to recover our reputation.

    Plus, she's a fighter but also knows how to negotiate.  We will need strength in that position, not more namby-pambying.  The world is not red or blue or purple.  It is shades of gray and cannot be simplified in the terms we have seen from Obama.

    Or make her U.N. ambassador to continue her fight for children and women and families, a fight for which she already is known and loved worldwide.

    That is, if she wants to leave the Senate.  I think we need here there the most to fight for all of the above as well as more right here.


    I wouldn't (none / 0) (#160)
    by sallywally on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:05 PM EST
    because it would take her out of the action. We need her where she can get things done - and where she can run for President again. Obama might try to put her there to take her out of commission, but I don't want her sidelined like that.

    I will support whatever Hillary Clinton wants (none / 0) (#164)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:04 PM EST
    for herself, but I don't believe she would feel the SC is the place where she can provide her greatest contributions to the country.

    McCain won't appoint Hillary (none / 0) (#190)
    by Prabhata on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:14:34 AM EST
    to the Supremes. Hillary will have to wait until 2012.

    In the Pepsi Center (none / 0) (#204)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:28 AM EST
    My husband and I were fortunate enough to have hall & suite tickets for Tuesday's session. For the most part, the momentum built in a very slow way. Until Governor Schweitzer. The Montana populist is really rather good at the podium...people standing. The Hillary appearance and speech.... Well, I had tears and smiles in my eyes and on my face then; and, I still do after winding down now at home. Grace, dedication, empathy, strength, passion. She was superb. Now, I'm going to get some pleasant sleep and reflect on it all in the morning.

    Great Speech... (none / 0) (#208)
    by fiver5 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:53:57 AM EST
    ... and easily up there with keynote addresses given by Cuomo, Jackson, Kennedy, and Obama himself. Class A (and Class-E).

    What good is any speech, unless... (none / 0) (#209)
    by Larry Bailey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:56:16 AM EST
    ...it motivates a listener to real action? It's "just words".  Last night, however, Hillary Clinton's speech moved me beyond my plan to be a Down-Ticket Only Dem in November. She made me realize in one sentence that I was NOT "just in it for her" (as much as I ADORE her); that I am "in it" for the firefighter, the nurse, the mother struggling with healthcare.

    So, I will begrudgingly cast my vote for Barack Obama, continuing my Yellow Dog pattern of 40 years, but I will do that with a broken political heart, knowing that I am voting for the lesser of my party's possible choices. From there, the chips will fall where they may and I will wish Senator Obama the best for the next 4/8 years -- all while waiting for her.

    In the meantime: No Way, No How, NO McCain.

    I think you are wrong (none / 0) (#210)
    by southernyankee on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:36:03 AM EST
    While not a Republican, I have worked for one and tend to vote to the right despite prizing my independent status.  That being said, I loved her speech.  I agreed with less of what she said than in the latter stages of the primaries, but what has brought me to being a Hillary supporters is the revelation of the depths of her personhood or humanity.  You could see she cares, that she is far more than simply ambition, and that for per politics and American history and America matter more to her than most American politicians.  I think she showed in this primary and reaffirmed in a big way last night that she had soul.

    Politics has always had an element of personality in it.  As someone who has worked in the field and now teaches about it, that spark and joy in the arena has always attracted me.  Hillary has showed it and more.  I can disagree on policy matters largely because I will not line up perfectly with anyone, but I want someone I can believe in.  I believe in Hillary and will be supporting her going forward.

    I certainly wouldn't have predicted this from her time as First Lady, btt it began when she was elected to the Senate and has only accelerated as the primaries went on.

    Go Hillary!

    She didn't save his ass... (none / 0) (#211)
    by nclblows on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 08:14:58 AM EST
    She saved her own.  

    If he doesn't win, it's not her fault now.

    Obama won't be president (none / 0) (#212)
    by Bornagaindem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:56:24 AM EST
    But at least it won't be Hillary's fault. Great speech and it will be looked back upon after he loses by those same pundits as they wonder gee how could the democrats have passed up this great candidate for that lightweight Obama.

    Speaking for me only a McCain presidency will be good for democrats because the repugs will then own the war. It will be good for democrats because they will avoid being put out in the wilderness for 40 years after the disaster that Obama would be.

    Here comes Hillary 2012!