home

Monday Afternoon OpenThread

As Anita and I make our way through downtown, here's another open thread for you.

TalkLeft is getting traffic spikes that are making the site run slowly. Remember, if it goes down, I will switch to the backup site here. Bookmark it now as you won't be able to find it if the site is down.

< Monday Night's Convention Schedule and Open Thread | Sen. Kennedy To Appear Tonight At Convention >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    I should know better (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM EST
    than to trust the Politico.:

    [A]nother point of contention seems to be the topic of Mr. Clinton's speech on Wednesday night. The theme of the evening is foreign policy, but some associates of Mr. Clinton said he wanted to have license to talk about the economy - or other matters.

    Mr. Obama sought to quell that dispute.

    "I said as much to him three or four days ago. I said, `Mr. President, you can say whatever you like,' " Mr. Obama said. "Bill Clinton is a unique figure in our politics. This is the only person, the only Democrat, who has been re-elected since F.D.R. And he is somebody who is equally adept at talking about domestic issues and foreign policy issues.

    "Now, Wednesday night most of the focus is going to be on foreign policy. But Bill Clinton knows a little bit about trying to yank the economy out of the doldrums and helping middle class families. It wouldn't make much sense for me to want to edit his remarks to prevent him from making a strong case about why we need fundamental economic change in this country."




    Inside the New York Delegation (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by daring grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:30:22 PM EST
    I LOVED this tidbit from the speech Senator Clinton gave before the state delegation today:

    "She joked about the frustrations of living through the presidency of George W. Bush, saying at one point, "Honest to goodness, how many times can you yell at the TV screen?"

    A man near the front of the ballroom cracked, "Obviously she's not a [Buffalo] Bills fan."

    Parent

    Yellin' at the tv.... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:48:59 PM EST
    unfortunately I do just as much yelling at the mugs of our Democratic congresspersons as I do at the mug of the infamous G-Dub, if not more.

    And that disgruntled Bills fan should try watching the Jets:)

    Parent

    How many weeks before the Jets (none / 0) (#20)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:54:27 PM EST
    have QB issues this season? Still rather watch the Jets than the Giants.

    Parent
    Favre or bust.... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:01:05 PM EST
    it is what it is...gotta root for him now, he's a Jet.  If he gets hurt or struggles we're in for another long one...though the D looks promising.

    I bleed Jet green...though I'm able to root for the G-men...so glad they beat the Pats last year.

    It's not like baseball...where I love to hate the Yankees:)  

    Parent

    Yanks/Red Sox will be (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:10:05 PM EST
    a nice distraction this week  :)

    I'm hoping Farve doesn't get hurt and we can have one heck of a good season with that old guy :) My friend who's a Giants fan is all excited about the Jets now. First I thought she was excited for me when she text me the news, but she named her fantasy team The Party Favre'ers, lol!~

    Parent

    He can still fling it.... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:17:13 PM EST
    from what I've seen so far.

    If he does anything comparable to what he did last year, we're making the playoffs.

    The Yanks look like they're toast...couldn't be happier:)

    Parent

    IMO Jets have QB issues NOW (none / 0) (#29)
    by DFLer on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:03:17 PM EST
    are there enough crying towels on the sidelines for the Great Cheese'd One? (Or should I say Grate Cheese-Head 1?)

    Parent
    I don't think.... (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:19:04 PM EST
    the Jets have QB issues....the QB of the Jets has issues, point taken:)

    Parent
    You actually (none / 0) (#22)
    by CST on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:55:49 PM EST
    watch CSPAN???

    Sorry, couldn't help myself :)

    You do see the president on TV a lot more than congresspeople.  But I get thats not your main point.

    Parent

    Everytime I put it on.... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:14:30 PM EST
    when congress is in session there's a quorom call or some other bullsh*t...so I don't really watch C-span so much.  It reeks of a hustle.:)  

    When I see my congressional representation on the news, they get my goat the most.

    Parent

    It's more like a classical radio station (none / 0) (#39)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:26:31 PM EST
    but with a picture of an empty room.

    Parent
    At least they could kill the lights.... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:39:19 PM EST
    when they quorum off to be stroked by lobbyists...the shindig is on our dime:)

    Could be worse I guess, they could sign twice as many pieces of paper and the prison population could multiply to an even higher degree while we invade a small country or two with no nukes.

    Parent

    or perhaps (none / 0) (#2)
    by janarchy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:28:11 PM EST
    that was the plan, there was too much criticism and then it was changed before it got any worse. In either case, it's nice to see that someone listened to BTD...seriously, Bill Clinton is one of the Democratic Party's greatest assets and holding him back is a bad thing. (I nearly said 'gave him his head' as in free rein, but um... no. That looks baaaaaaad)

    Parent
    My preference is to believe (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:30:28 PM EST
    that this had always been the plan.

    Parent
    I wish I could (none / 0) (#10)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:38:09 PM EST
    I wish I could too (none / 0) (#18)
    by janarchy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:43:59 PM EST
    but I have a hard time believing anything like that. Not to mention it took 2 days to refute the story. So either the Obama camp is pathetically slow to quell these sort of rumours (which is bad) or they waffle and change their minds when they see which way the wind's blowing (still not very good). Considering everything, the sudden rush to laud the Clintons and pretend everything is groovy and copacetic after months upon months of stupidity kind of reeks of desperation to me. Why did it take them 3 months to figure out that the Clintons are important...? Oh yeah, dead cat bounce, more people saying they won't vote for him etc.

    Parent
    I think this (none / 0) (#3)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:29:53 PM EST
    is probably closer to the truth. No matter...someone listened.

    Parent
    So why not ask Bill what he would like (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:32:06 PM EST
    To talk about then fit him into the schedule on the night that those issues are the theme???

    One should never trust the politico.  they were but a few weeks old and were already posting lies about politicians and how they felt about their war vote.

    they like to mix it up as well as anyone and a divided party suits their purpose.

    But Obama's statement there in or out of context doesn't work for me.  He's basically saying "i got you down for foriegn policy night, but it wouldn't make sense for me to tell you what to say.  Good luck."

    Parent

    The key would seem to be (none / 0) (#24)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:57:22 PM EST
    having Bill and Hillary have their own nights......Thursday night is Obama.   Tuesday is the anniversay on women getting the right to vote, iirc.  So, that leaves Monday or Wednesday to Bill.  Wednesday seems better....

    Parent
    OK. So don't make it a theme night then (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:06:38 PM EST
    It's silly to say "You're slotted for xyz night but go ahead talk about abc if you want."

    Parent
    I hope that's true. I was flat out amazed when (none / 0) (#12)
    by Teresa on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:40:39 PM EST
    I read they wanted him to speak about foreign policy and Obama as CiC. Who better to contrast the Democratic economic successes vs the past nearly eight years? I couldn't believe they would be that blind.

    As someone here said the other day, Bill will make a better case for a Democratic vs another Republican administration than Obama will.

    Parent

    Thanks - I'm trying not to believe the worst (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:42:49 PM EST
    about every motivation.

    I've had company in town for the last few days, until tomorrow. I haven't been able to obsess over the news like I usually do - which is a good thing.  But when I only have time to read one blog for a few minutes a day it is good to have my TalkLeft reliable sources and commentary.

    Looking forward to hearing all about tonight from you all.  I'll be airboating this evening in the headwaters of the Everglades - looking for gators!

    Parent

    andgarden, what do you think of the (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:33:35 PM EST
    exec. editor of Politico (whose name I do not recall)?  He was a fixture on CNN after the VP announcement rally on Saturday.  Good TV presence and managed to keep a straight face during some calls from very religious people.  

    Parent
    Not a major thing, but I just wanted to rebut (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:37:34 PM EST
    the commenter on the previous now-closed thread who is trying to stir up anti-Clinton sentiment, with a link to the actual story he/she discusses:

    commenter:


    Hillary got some bad press in the NY Times for all but elbowing her governor, Dave Paterson, out of the way at the NY delegation meeting.  Paterson was supposed to speak, but she went first and used up all his time.  Way to piss off your diehard black supporters, girl.

    Here is the NYT link and what was actually reported:


     Mr. Silver spoke first, followed by Mr. Schumer, who was supposed to introduce Mr. Paterson. But the enormous buzz that overtook the room once Mrs. Clinton arrived created some confusion on the dais, and Mr. Paterson was inadvertently passed over.

    The gaffe did not go unnoticed by Mrs. Clinton, who tried to introduce Mr. Paterson once she was done speaking. But by then the crowd had already grown restless and began to disperse. Mr. Paterson then quietly slipped out a back door.

    From the rest of the article, it sounds like it was just a rather confused situation.  I saw part of Clinton's speech and she had effusive praise for Paterson.

    thanks for the correction (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by DFLer on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:40:14 PM EST
    wow...the real deal not even close to the commentor's comments.

    Parent
    Imagine that! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by ccpup on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:43:00 PM EST
    Someone with CDS knowingly pushing a false version of a story that makes Hillary look bad?

    No, never!

    {snark}

    Parent

    No joke. I thought "that girl" elbowed (none / 0) (#17)
    by Teresa on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:43:56 PM EST
    him right out of the way.

    That you for fact checking for us

    Parent

    Hopefully, (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by chel2551 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:43:04 PM EST
    someone in the medical profession will soon find a cure for CDS.  It's a nasty, nasty disease.

    It should be clear to everyone that she's going to do what's best for the democratic party and not what's best for herself.

    If only other politicians would follow her example.

    Parent

    CDS, ODS, GWDS.... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:55:10 PM EST
    and my personal achilles heel, "all of the above" DS...human nature I guess...we all seem to need a boogeyman.

    Objectivity, reason, open minded rationality...all tough nuts to crack...but we can strive:)

    Parent

    Didn't you just love (none / 0) (#13)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:41:13 PM EST
    the way the other poster made it sound like Hillary was getting bad press instead of the truth...which was that comments on the NYT story were against her and laced with CDS? The facts of what happened just were not that bad.

    Parent
    New Obama Ad (5.00 / 0) (#23)
    by daring grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:57:00 PM EST
    I really like this new ad hitting McCain on the economy and his heir-apparent status to Bush. Link goes to TPM.

    Obama Ad


    That is a great ad (none / 0) (#42)
    by MichaelGale on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:36:12 PM EST
    TPM said lighthearted but to me it was perfect.

    I loved the music and with images and the text, I said OH YES.  Particularly the 1 and 1 is 2.

    LOL

    Parent

    I Almost Feel Sorry for McCain (none / 0) (#45)
    by daring grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:43:03 PM EST
    whenever I see that Bush hug photo.

    Parent
    Yes, however (none / 0) (#53)
    by MichaelGale on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 11:47:41 PM EST
    We'll see it a hundred+ times in the next 90 days.

    Parent
    Well, As Someone Said To Me (none / 0) (#55)
    by daring grace on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:44:48 AM EST
    It's like Dukakis in the tank.

    It's not just that he's hugging Bush, but it looks so...submissive or servile or something.

    Embarrassing. And prime political fodder.

    Parent

    Gerry Ferraro is sole cable news person (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:58:29 PM EST
    who gets it right.  Foxnews 'reporter' is asking Ferraro what Clinton has to do to unify the party.  Ferraro's the only talking head I've seen who has said Clinton has done everything she could and it's on the delegates, and esp. the Obama supporters' responsibility to unify the party.

    I would type in the whole interview but it would be rather long.  But she goes on to describe the breakdowns in Clinton supporters, and this is the only analysis I've seen that's come close to accurate (she's explaining 'what Hillary can and cannot do', in terms of 'unity':

    -- one group for Hillary were easy enough to move into the Obama camp.  Will be enthusiastic.
    -- people who supported Hillary and not Obama bc they had real objections to Obama's lack of experience, Biden should help with these.
    -- 'the PUMA people'.  Furious at the Dem. Party who when Clinton was beaten up by the media never once spoke up against sexism and told people to stop, as they would have had the media made racist comments.  Feel women have been differently.  May never come on to this ticket.  It's not up to Hillary to bring them along, it's up to the Dem. Party. (emphasis mine)

    Yaay Gerry!  Give that woman a pony.  ;)

    Furious at the party-- (none / 0) (#52)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 08:55:42 PM EST
    Yeah, that says it!  I am now an Independent; what I have seen of the 'party of my former preference' this year has compelled me to call it quits.  Here in red, red SC, my vote for president has not counted except once since 1965.  (And the chance of finding anyone except a republican running for office is likely nil.)  All I can hope is that the popular vote tally is so depressed that the current DNC 'leaders' get the old heave-ho.

    (That plus I still have some hopes of 4 years of McCain vs. 8 years of the alternative.)

    Won't watch the doings in Denver; did not watch the ones in China either (because of the 3 D's I give that country--the way they treat dissidents, dogs, and disciples of any religion).  Awhile back I decided that TV has derailed America's humanity: "fireworks" in the night sky during the Gulf War made death a spectator sport. I am getting my news now from the net--selectively!

    Parent

    Black Repub Assn. on c-span2 now. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:32:08 PM EST
    Interesting points of view.

    Jeralyn (none / 0) (#9)
    by DFLer on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:38:04 PM EST
    So do you have access to the convention floor, or what? Is the blog area separated, then?

    Hillary to supporters: (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ennis on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:00:11 PM EST
    "Let there be no mistake about it, We are united. We are united for change.  And we are united behind Barack Obama and Joe Biden and we are gong to make sure that we win on November 4th."

    "We are gathered here in Denver for a very clear and simple purpose, and that is to come out of this convention energized, excited and ready to elect Barack Obama the next president of the United States."

    "If you voted for me, you have much more in common with Senator Obama on every issue I campaigned on, on every cause that I have stood for, than you do with Senator McCain."  "I ask each and every one of you to work as hard for Barack and Joe Biden as you worked for me."


    "When Bill Clinton was President . . . " (none / 0) (#28)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:03:03 PM EST
    Yes, Obama actually uttered those words and then went on to mention the positive economy.

    Yes, but not the firsttime he used that theme (none / 0) (#31)
    by DFLer on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:07:40 PM EST
    Only after the Krugman op-ed on the subject did he add under Bill Clinton to the good $$$ years in the 90s and George Bush to the bad $$$ times in the 2000s

    Parent
    That's right! I forgot the Krugman link (none / 0) (#33)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:13:38 PM EST
    January 5, 2008 Debate: (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ennis on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:51:15 PM EST

    I actually give Bill Clinton enormous credit for having balanced those budgets during those years. It did take political courage for him to do that.


    Parent
    Patricia Madrid (none / 0) (#35)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:16:41 PM EST
    Co-chair of the DNC Platform Committee does not know that Obama voted for FISA?

    She just said Democrats reject all efforts to spy on Americans and to protect the rights of Americans.

    Uh, Ok

    Is Michelle serious? (none / 0) (#37)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:18:19 PM EST
    Excerpt from tonight's speech:

    "Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them."

    the convention (none / 0) (#40)
    by athyrio on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:29:42 PM EST
    I am here in Denver, and have had very limited participation due to my health and the altitude...anyway, I spent the morning at the PUMA headquarters and was able to meet Riverdaughter and Murphy from PUMA and was thrilled to put faces to names in blogs....Riverdaughter is a lovely redhead for those who don't know her and Murphy is a lovely blonde..there were tons of folks there at their headquarters and we helped them make signs for their protest tonite....I left with my granddaughter as I just cannot do alot but it was fun at least registering my presence and meeting folks...We plan to go to Cheesman park later on this evening to join in the candlelight vigil....Wow this altitude is really hard for me...Stay well....ciao...

    Get some diamox (or generic). It is (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:37:40 PM EST
    prescription and really helps alleviate the symptoms of altitude sickness--doesn't cure, just alleviates though.  

    Parent
    Will do and thanks (none / 0) (#50)
    by athyrio on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 06:08:07 PM EST
    While I have wanted to do more at least I am here and registering my support for PUMA.....

    Parent
    I'm driving PUMAs around (none / 0) (#54)
    by echinopsia on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 12:58:11 AM EST
    I'll be at the HQ again tomorrow. I'll look for you there.

    Parent
    From today's AP article on the (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:51:06 PM EST
    DNC:

    As if speaking from the same text, Schumer and Van Hollen also said only a small fraction of Clinton's delegates remained unreconciled to Obama's triumph in the bruising primaries of the winter and spring.

    Perhaps so, but they were vocal about it.

    Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the eldest child of the late Robert F. Kennedy and a former lieutenant governor of Maryland, said the animosity that some Clinton delegates feel toward Obama is worsening. "There's a moment that you want to enjoy your bitterness," she said, although she emphasized that she is supporting Obama.

    Another Maryland delegate, Mary Boergers said she didn't care what Clinton's wishes were about whom to support on a roll call. "To try to suppress the celebration that we all want to have about her achievements is what would tear this party apart," she said.

    Boergers, a lifelong Democrat, added she is unsure whether she will vote for Obama in November.

    The article also includes yet another Nancy Pelosi statement about getting over it.

    Kennedy is over it (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ennis on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:56:55 PM EST
    So it's very logical and natural that she would recommend it to other former Clinton supporters.

    Parent
    Kennedy seems quite a bit more (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 06:05:33 PM EST
    understanding of human nature than you.  

    Parent
    cognitive dissonance (none / 0) (#51)
    by londonamerican on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 06:13:29 PM EST
    http://londonamerican01.blogspot.com/2008/08/cognitive-dissonance.html

    what does joe biden have to do with either hope or change?